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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

21,348 posts in this topic

Using anti-TNZ OTUSA fan boys' logic - that GD is a washed-up hasbeen, why would they want to see TNZ supposedly strengthened, by his removal and replacement?

 

Somehow, it doesn't add up.

 

Adds up perfectly - just listen to the JS audio part 2.

 

They simply will not allow him to trash AC35 like he did AC34 regardless of how strong he is, or isn't whichever the case is.

 

He's simply crossed the line too many times and JS has punched him in the face about 10 times in five minutes - well deserved I'll add.

 

It's not a matter of stronger or weaker, it's about shutting someone down that's spent three years undermining what you're trying to build. I'm surprised JS and RC haven't done this sooner. The other issue is the timing is just bad for grumpy, but he should have thought about that before opening his big mouth.

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Dalts has realised that he has created a public relations disaster for himself by being so negative, and is trying desperately to correct the situation.

 

When the Protocol came out several journos jumped on it and claimed it was so one sided that TNZ should refuse to enter, and 87% of a poll or readers agreed. Most of the population of NZ probably went along with that rhetoric, which put TNZs future under a cloud, as no America's Cup, no TNZ.

 

Dalts might complain a bit more about the lack of a venue, but look to him for a stream of positive sentiment about the Protocol, Rule and America's Cup in general from now on.

 

He can sing nice songs all he wants - the well is already seriously poisoned and he can only look in the mirror.

 

He can pass out $100.00 bills on the street corner and it won't make a difference. He's spent three long years digging the hole he's in pursuing his personal vendetta against RC, and it's suddenly become a really deep dark hole that's bit him in the ass, and hard.

 

Where are all the supporters that received him at the airport after the loss ? Where are all the individual donors chipping in their dollars at the same time ?

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Using anti-TNZ OTUSA fan boys' logic - that GD is a washed-up hasbeen, why would they want to see TNZ supposedly strengthened, by his removal and replacement?

 

Somehow, it doesn't add up.

 

Adds up perfectly - just listen to the JS audio part 2.

 

They simply will not allow him to trash AC35 like he did AC34 regardless of how strong he is, or isn't whichever the case is.

 

He's simply crossed the line too many times and JS has punched him in the face about 10 times in five minutes - well deserved I'll add.

 

It's not a matter of stronger or weaker, it's about shutting someone down that's spent three years undermining what you're trying to build. I'm surprised JS and RC haven't done this sooner. The other issue is the timing is just bad for grumpy, but he should have thought about that before opening his big mouth.

Yeah...nah. I'm not buying it.

 

I think this is nothing more than a deliberate attempt to try and destabilise TNZ. Obviously 9:8 was just too close for comfort.

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I guess it will be back to three or four challengers, maybe just one if Ainslie, LR and HI fold. It would be quite funny if only Artemis turned up.

 

Based on your thinking maybe zero.

 

That would be great and would redirect things towards a DoG match which may be better anyway.

 

Being a tragic, I would want a race rather than no race. Artemis v Oracle could be interesting too as they should be much better this time around

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Using anti-TNZ OTUSA fan boys' logic - that GD is a washed-up hasbeen, why would they want to see TNZ supposedly strengthened, by his removal and replacement?

 

Somehow, it doesn't add up.

 

Adds up perfectly - just listen to the JS audio part 2.

 

They simply will not allow him to trash AC35 like he did AC34 regardless of how strong he is, or isn't whichever the case is.

 

He's simply crossed the line too many times and JS has punched him in the face about 10 times in five minutes - well deserved I'll add.

 

It's not a matter of stronger or weaker, it's about shutting someone down that's spent three years undermining what you're trying to build. I'm surprised JS and RC haven't done this sooner. The other issue is the timing is just bad for grumpy, but he should have thought about that before opening his big mouth.

Yeah...nah. I'm not buying it.

 

I think this is nothing more than a deliberate attempt to try and destabilise TNZ. Obviously 9:8 was just too close for comfort.

 

 

9 to 8 would have been really close but in case you forgot it was really 11 to 8 with quite a strong winning streak at the end as I recall :)

 

So in reality it was quite comfortable .

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Are you completely bonkers - "quite comfortable"????

 

They were within a few seconds of it being over 9-3 or 4 earlier on if there had been reasonable wind limits etc

There is a reason it was 9-8, and not 11-8, OR cheated pure and simple....leopards rarely change their spots so there is a good chance they cheated in the 72 as well

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Dalts was on national news this evening basically holding the Govt to ransom saying if they don't stump the cash they will fold. Governments response? Get all these sponsors you "have" to front up first. A truly terrible week for Dalts. Does the new "board" have nothing to say? Dalts needs some serious PR help next week...........

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I'm not a huge fan of GD, but to be fair most of his criticisms of AC34 were on point and for the most part warranted - a lot of people here have an amazing ability to see things through rose-tinted glasses and convince themselves OR's shit don't stink. Let's face it, AC34 was a commercial disaster that only attracted two competitive teams, resulted in the death of a top sailor and gentleman and was mired in a pretty serious cheating scandal involving the defender. The organization of 34 was one fuck up after another, with the shark well and truly being jumped when the race committee set a course for Race 13 they knew couldn't be completed within the arbitrary TV window but couldn't do anything about it (like, say, move the mark) due to the new safety requirements.

 

I'm hopeful and optimistic that AC35 will be better - though the venue selection process has me concerned - but let's not pretend that OR's past actions entitle them to act all high and mighty and that JS isn't a unique kind of arrogant prick right up with there GD.

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Interesting comment from GD (apologies if already posted elsewhere):

 

"They [ETNZ] had no issues with being restricted to one AC62 that will be used in the next regatta while Oracle get two. But Dalton said the development work that would go into smaller catamarans to eventually be transferred to the Cup racing boat would be very significant." More.

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Jimmy is starting to sound squeaky. They need to pull him off this PR tour I reckon; all he's doing is turning ETNZ into major underdogs, which is the only thing that will guarantee them the funding they need.

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Jimmy is starting to sound squeaky. They need to pull him off this PR tour I reckon; all he's doing is turning ETNZ into major underdogs, which is the only thing that will guarantee them the funding they need.

 

Which is what JS wants?

 

I think JS and OR would rather have ENTZ in the AC than not?

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I think JS just loves to repeatedly kick the shit out of the Kiwis. Thats why he wants them to enter - so he can kick them in the nuts again lol....

 

What a bastard he is.

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Sail-World.com : America's Cup: Dalton reports good progress with sponsors + Full Video

http://www.sail-world.com/USA/Americas-Cup:-Dalton-reports-good-progress-with-funding/123268

Wow, thanks for posting. The video is very interesting. GD sympathizing with OTUSA over venue selection and defending the rule that allows OTUSA to launch two boats. Looking positive for an ETNZ entry for AC35. ETNZ to buddy up with Team Australia and Auckland to bid for the Challenger Playoffs.

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^ GD also indicated that an entry from China is all but confirmed.

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I'm not a huge fan of GD, but to be fair most of his criticisms of AC34 were on point and for the most part warranted - a lot of people here have an amazing ability to see things through rose-tinted glasses and convince themselves OR's shit don't stink. Let's face it, AC34 was a commercial disaster that only attracted two competitive teams, resulted in the death of a top sailor and gentleman and was mired in a pretty serious cheating scandal involving the defender. The organization of 34 was one fuck up after another, with the shark well and truly being jumped when the race committee set a course for Race 13 they knew couldn't be completed within the arbitrary TV window but couldn't do anything about it (like, say, move the mark) due to the new safety requirements.

 

I'm hopeful and optimistic that AC35 will be better - though the venue selection process has me concerned - but let's not pretend that OR's past actions entitle them to act all high and mighty and that JS isn't a unique kind of arrogant prick right up with there GD.

 

Are more reasoned summary than most. The chest beaters here, the chief amongst them having notably deserted his heros after they struggled in the early races, usually take the simplest approach to any issue, in this case - they won, everything they did was brilliant*, all the others sucked!

 

* cheating - someone elses fault, advantageous rule changes - part of the game, highest official being offered the COR spot while racing was underway, subject to a win by OTUSA - so what!

 

My take on JS trying to shape ETNZ's future is that he is playing point man, clumsily backed up by the drones here, pushing an American Billionaires agenda.

Is it not common for franchises within American professional sport to be passed from rich owner to rich owner? And for those already in the game to vet and blackball any prospective owner/manager they are uncomfortable with. I.e to run the 'sport'/business like an old-boys-network/ego stroking machine with one-upmanship, rivalries and jealousies played out in a semi-public way.

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Sail-World.com : America's Cup: Dalton reports good progress with sponsors + Full Video

http://www.sail-world.com/USA/Americas-Cup:-Dalton-reports-good-progress-with-funding/123268

Wow, thanks for posting. The video is very interesting. GD sympathizing with OTUSA over venue selection and defending the rule that allows OTUSA to launch two boats. Looking positive for an ETNZ entry for AC35. ETNZ to buddy up with Team Australia and Auckland to bid for the Challenger Playoffs.

 

 

^ GD also indicated that an entry from China is all but confirmed.

 

Yes, he called it 'the Oracle China team' and it sounded like it was intentional, not a slip.

 

Anyway, here's a direct link to that video (the SW site is not working for me just now) - there's lots of interesting stuff mixed in between all the money talk.

 

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Interesting, GD who does nothing but pointlessly whine and bring LEVision into disrepute, got the AC62 rule changed in addition to the Protocol.

 

He needs to go, brings nothing to the event obviously...useless! Bring back Friar Tuck instead, cause he's managed a bunch of AC Teams

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Wow did I just watched what I think I did?

 

GD has to go. He is totally backtracking. A PR nightmare. Talk about whipsawed. How can be taken seriously at this point?

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Sail-World.com : America's Cup: Dalton reports good progress with sponsors + Full Video

http://www.sail-world.com/USA/Americas-Cup:-Dalton-reports-good-progress-with-funding/123268

Wow, thanks for posting. The video is very interesting. GD sympathizing with OTUSA over venue selection and defending the rule that allows OTUSA to launch two boats. Looking positive for an ETNZ entry for AC35. ETNZ to buddy up with Team Australia and Auckland to bid for the Challenger Playoffs.

 

 

>^ GD also indicated that an entry from China is all but confirmed.

 

Yes, he called it 'the Oracle China team' and it sounded like it was intentional, not a slip.

 

Anyway, here's a direct link to that video (the SW site is not working for me just now) - there's lots of interesting stuff mixed in between all the money talk.

 

 

Oracle China team? Does this mean he won't get to sell them an obsolete design?

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Sail-World.com : America's Cup: Dalton reports good progress with sponsors + Full Video

http://www.sail-world.com/USA/Americas-Cup:-Dalton-reports-good-progress-with-funding/123268

Wow, thanks for posting. The video is very interesting. GD sympathizing with OTUSA over venue selection and defending the rule that allows OTUSA to launch two boats. Looking positive for an ETNZ entry for AC35. ETNZ to buddy up with Team Australia and Auckland to bid for the Challenger Playoffs.

 

>^ GD also indicated that an entry from China is all but confirmed.

ockquote>

Yes, he called it 'the Oracle China team' and it sounded like it was intentional, not a slip.

 

Anyway, here's a direct link to that video (the SW site is not working for me just now) - there's lots of interesting stuff mixed in between all the money talk.

Oracle China team? Does this mean he won't get to sell them an obsolete design?

 

Ha. But yes, I think there's a reasonable chance that this sometimes-rumored 'other' team from China ('different from the China Team of last time' as IM put it once) is Oracle-related in the sense that it is either company-linked through business relationships, and/or perhaps there's some billionaire behind it who is a friend of Larry. Complete guess: Someone at Hong Kong, maybe? Think RHKYC held a WMRT there recently, perhaps they have AC ambitions too. edit, that or the 'Shanghai' interest that LE spoke of, when he was thinking out loud about where ACWS events might be held.

 

GD stuck 'Oracle' in there either intentionally or not but he did seem to link the two in his head regardless.

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The rumor is that China Team will be Oracle's training partner, with design work (and probably a bunch of other help) coming from OTUSA.

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The rumor is that China Team will be Oracle's training partner, with design work (and probably a bunch of other help) coming from OTUSA.

Must be a friend of LE's then.

 

Hard to overestimate how much help they're going to need, a lot of AC talent is already signed up.

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The rumor is that China Team will be Oracle's training partner, with design work (and probably a bunch of other help) coming from OTUSA.

Must be a friend of LE's then.

 

Hard to overestimate how much help they're going to need, a lot of AC talent is already signed up.

 

Chinese AC guy: I want to win the America's Cup

 

AC sales dude: How fast do you want to go?

 

Chinese AC guy: Very fast.

 

AC sales dude: Nothing goes to weather like money. That will be USD 375,000,000 please.

 

Chinese AC guy: That all? I'll take two.

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OR have done well.

 

I am sure the Chinese team will really shape up those OR sailors!

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Dalts has realised that he has created a public relations disaster for himself by being so negative, and is trying desperately to correct the situation.

 

When the Protocol came out several journos jumped on it and claimed it was so one sided that TNZ should refuse to enter, and 87% of a poll or readers agreed. Most of the population of NZ probably went along with that rhetoric, which put TNZs future under a cloud, as no America's Cup, no TNZ.

 

Dalts might complain a bit more about the lack of a venue, but look to him for a stream of positive sentiment about the Protocol, Rule and America's Cup in general from now on.

^^ If the prot was so good why did they change it ? It even seems that Dalt is happier about it. Keep up.

 

Now, regarding the lack of venue do you think all challengers are happy about it ?

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Wow did I just watched what I think I did?

 

GD has to go. He is totally backtracking. A PR nightmare. Talk about whipsawed. How can be taken seriously at this point?

The people backtracking are the NZ media that GD accused of creating "hysteria" and "negative rhetoric" around the AC35 Protocol. He called this presser to straighten them the f*ck out on the real details, this being an opportunity that in his words is even more winnable than last time.

 

He's having to deal with the complete wreckage that the Herbies Lewis, Gladwell, Tasker, Lester, Johansen and others spewed out, out of some needy combination of shock jock journalism and ignorance. That has affected public opinion, which has hurt political support ahead of an election, for govt support of ETNZ.

 

GD is in a tough spot here. He took the high road in many ways, was very candid and all. But it's a bit of a case of the chickens coming home to roost. The PR nightmare he led during and against AC34 is now a problem to even him, and to his team. He basically sowed those seeds, turned the media sour against everything AC through his own negativity, even through the "hysteria" generated over supposed conspiracies of all kinds including the overt bribery of IM (his supposedly buddy-to-be-now) - by the Defenders who the media (listen to PJM) now think are trying to intentionally destroy ETNZ.

 

What a messy sulituation in Herbieville.

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.......Is it not common for franchises within American professional sport to be passed from rich owner to rich owner? And for those already in the game to vet and blackball any prospective owner/manager they are uncomfortable with. I.e to run the 'sport'/business like an old-boys-network/ego stroking machine with one-upmanship, rivalries and jealousies played out in a semi-public way.

 

Taking the NBA precedent, for OR, Kiwi Black is the new Black.

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The initial prot was one sided and unacceptable, and it did not take long before it was amended.

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AC sales dude: But that's against the rules! :)

 

Chinese AC guy: Rules? Are those like US patents?

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The initial prot was one sided and unacceptable, and it did not take long before it was amended.

Only Gladwell hit on the valid point about the selection of Arbitration Board members and yes, that did get greatly improved.

 

Much of the rest of the hysteria was purely conspiratorial nega-nav nonsense. Exactly as GD went to great effort to point out and to correct.

 

Yes it's a tough Challenge but the AC always is, for everyone.

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AC sales dude: But that's against the rules! :)

Chinese AC guy: Rules? Are those like US patents?

Funny.

 

I forget, can designs be sold in this Protocol as was allowed last time? ETNZ made money off helping LR last time (obviously) but OR offered to help LP's Energy Team (was it?) too, back in the early days.

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AC sales dude: But that's against the rules! :)

Chinese AC guy: Rules? Are those like US patents?

Funny.

 

I forget, can designs be sold in this Protocol as was allowed last time? ETNZ made money off helping LR last time (obviously) but OR offered to help LP's Energy Team (was it?) too, back in the early days.

 

 

Good question. Wasn't looking for it when I read it, but off the top of my head, don't remember anything about it.

 

Of course, it depends. If Russell can find someone to sell it to, it will be legal. Probably Ainslie too. But Dalton and Prada, they'd be SOL.

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AC sales dude: But that's against the rules! :)

Chinese AC guy: Rules? Are those like US patents?

Funny.

 

I forget, can designs be sold in this Protocol as was allowed last time? ETNZ made money off helping LR last time (obviously) but OR offered to help LP's Energy Team (was it?) too, back in the early days.

 

Good question. Wasn't looking for it when I read it, but off the top of my head, don't remember anything about it.

 

Of course, it depends. If Russell can find someone to sell it to, it will be legal. Probably Ainslie too. But Dalton and Prada, they'd be SOL.

Prada has a design team almost twice the size of OR's. Maybe they'd be more capable of sparing time for a China effort? They may even be more inclined than Oracle to get that region involved, being as Prada is Hong Kong Stock Exchange listed and very, very profitable there.

 

With $375T to spend, who knows what'll happen :)

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The initial prot was one sided and unacceptable, and it did not take long before it was amended.

Only Gladwell hit on the valid point about the selection of Arbitration Board members and yes, that did get greatly improved.

 

Much of the rest of the hysteria was purely conspiratorial nega-nav nonsense. Exactly as GD went to great effort to point out and to correct.

 

Yes it's a tough Challenge but the AC always is, for everyone.

^^ No, and I did not read Gladwell but the prot istself, and that is what I was posting June 4th:

 

" Fairest protocol ever ? Independant ? what did IM smoke ?

 

6.1.Appointment of Regatta Director: GGYC and the Challenger of Record shall appoint, and shall be entitled to remove and replace, a Regatta Director who shall be independent and whose role is further described in Article 7. "
This precise article was modified to include the other challengers.

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Lets put some things in pespective here, So when you think about it, there is no difference in what Grant Dalton has been saying the last few years, than what Larry Ellison was saying after the 2007 cup. Sure Berterelli's protocol was one sided (as is this one) but the only difference is Dalton has neither the money nor the inclination to pull off a DoG match like Ellison did. I would like to think that Berterelli's vision was much the same as Ellison's is now, except Ellison knew the longer Berterelli kept the cup, the further away his goal of winning it was becoming...why?? because Berterelli's vision was to keep the cup in mono's and he had all the best monohull sailors in the world at that time, and Ellison had no chance. Ernesto had a fake puppet CoR at that time, and Ellison has a legal puppet CoR this time, in 2008/9/10 Ernesto Berterelli and Alinghi were the worst thing to ever happen to the Americas Cup. Alinghi's protocol was unfair to challengers, and the ONLY option there was then (in his eyes) was to drag the Americas Cup through the courts for 3 years, exclude every other challenging nation, bypass the Louis Vuitton Cup, put together a one-sided 90ft challenge, win the Americas Cup, and implement Larry's vision. That vision then turned out to be a huge flop, attracting the least number of challengers seen in a long time, killing one sailor and sending one of the major sponsors of the event running for the hills after a disastrous challenger series. (Louis Vuitton). Grant Dalton said the entry fee was too expensive (and it was, causing it to be slashed) he also said the boats were too expensive and dangerous (and they were, hence the small number of challengers, and the death of Andrew Simpson). Those were the 2 contentious issues he was talking about which were actually real issues which needed addressing. Grant was only saying what Oracle tried so hard to keep under wraps. Which was the truth. Then to top it off, after trying to muzzle Dalton, the defenders were then busted spying and caught red handed cheating. Now, after all that, Dalton is supposed to say Oracle really have put in a great effort and we respect everything they have tried to do? Really? It only took an "unfair" protocol for Ellison to get on his high horse and attack Alinghi, so a little bit of consistency here

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That is a good rant SClarke.

 

Pretty much whatever GD says will jumped on by group that seems intent on acting like children

 

I ask that everyone listens to the full vid in #117 above (40 mins). that summarises the situation very well from TNZ's perspective.

 

 

Another point: whatever the press says in their bid to sensationalise stuff may not be GD's nor TNZ's view.

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Perspective...amazing how people forget so easily, practice what you preach.

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Who's twisting your nuts now? GD's statement sounds like he is onboard with it all.

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That is a good rant SClarke.

 

Pretty much whatever GD says will jumped on by group that seems intent on acting like children

 

I ask that everyone listens to the full vid in #117 above (40 mins). that summarises the situation very well from TNZ's perspective.

Another point: whatever the press says in their bid to sensationalise stuff may not be GD's nor TNZ's view.

 

Listened to the full video - twice - a drastic 180 from the last three years after having aggressively trashed the event. I'm probably one of the biggest grumpy critics over the last three years - no real secret there. Funny thing - I came into AC34 with no opinion either way of him. He certainly fixed that in short order.

 

However a simple 40 minute video this week doesn't come anywhere close to offsetting the damage he caused to AC34 - probably due to a personal vendetta, his hatred for RC. Clearly demonstrated at the charity dinner in NZ. Did you watch that video where RC flew to NZ to support the event, and grumpy ambushed him ? No class.

 

If you think for one minute grumpy didn't do his best to play the NZ press and ET sheeple (ie ta koodie) and let them run wild with his political and unprofessional games for the last three years as he sat back and laughed, you are either totally naive or ignorant, or both.

 

Wonder why he directed his comments to the press, and used the word "hysteria" ? Think he just now realized this with Herbie Gladwell and Dana the drama queen running open loop for the last three years ?

 

Seriously - he has not come close to paying his debt after one simple video - his true character is well understood.

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I may be a little naive and ignorant, but not so much as to not recognise OTUSA fan boy diarrhoea when I see and smell it. Clean yourself up, man.

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Let me get this straight - you'll ignore all of grumpy's shit over the last three years but want to criticize me for calling him on it ?

 

Point to my posts or STFU.

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Let me get this straight - you'll ignore all of grumpy's shit over the last three years but want to criticize me for calling him on it ?

 

Point to my posts or STFU.

/\ Happy now?

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Let me get this straight - you'll ignore all of grumpy's shit over the last three years but want to criticize me for calling him on it ?

 

Point to my posts or STFU.

/\ Happy now?

 

Apparently you can't back your own claims up.

 

Three years of crap from grumpy backs mine up.

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SW sailor - may I suggest some Imodium AD oral for your problem

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Barnyb - may I suggest you pull your head out of your ass and look at the facts ?

 

Are you or anyone else defending grumpy's actions over the last three years ?

 

Seriously ?

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That is a good rant SClarke.

 

Pretty much whatever GD says will jumped on by group that seems intent on acting like children

 

I ask that everyone listens to the full vid in #117 above (40 mins). that summarises the situation very well from TNZ's perspective.

Another point: whatever the press says in their bid to sensationalise stuff may not be GD's nor TNZ's view.

 

Listened to the full video - twice - a drastic 180 from the last three years after having aggressively trashed the event. I'm probably one of the biggest grumpy critics over the last three years - no real secret there. Funny thing - I came into AC34 with no opinion either way of him. He certainly fixed that in short order.

 

However a simple 40 minute video this week doesn't come anywhere close to offsetting the damage he caused to AC34 - probably due to a personal vendetta, his hatred for RC. Clearly demonstrated at the charity dinner in NZ. Did you watch that video where RC flew to NZ to support the event, and grumpy ambushed him ? No class.

 

If you think for one minute grumpy didn't do his best to play the NZ press and ET sheeple (ie ta koodie) and let them run wild with his political and unprofessional games for the last three years as he sat back and laughed, you are either totally naive or ignorant, or both.

 

Wonder why he directed his comments to the press, and used the word "hysteria" ? Think he just now realized this with Herbie Gladwell and Dana the drama queen running open loop for the last three years ?

 

Seriously - he has not come close to paying his debt after one simple video - his true character is well understood.

You talk about paying debt, but remember, it was Grant Dalton that put together a design team who came up with a viable way of foiling an AC72 catamaran. It was Team NZ who introduced foiling into the AC on a large scale. It was also Grant Dalton who put together a deal with Luna Rossa to enter the AC, and if it wasn't for that we wouldn't have seen any racing until September, thanks to Russell and Larry's incompetent organisational skills.

 

It was then again Grant Dalton who allowed Artemis to race in a configuration outside of the AC72 class rule so all us fans got to see them on the water.

 

And It was also Grant Dalton who allowed a lay day when Oracle begged for it to get their shit together so they had a chance to win. So all you Oracle fanboys who think Grant Dalton ruined anything better look in their own backyard, because its Oracle who have ruined the event. And it was Grant Dalton who saved it from becoming more of a frikkin disaster then it already was.

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Lets face the facts. The new 'board" has never made an announcement to ratify Grant"s job. GD has fired from the hip ever since the Protocol came out and the his veiled press conference on Friday was about the press getting the Protocol wrong. If I could be bothered with all the radio interviews where Grant was scathing, thereby giving the press the fuel I would. Trying to put pressure on a Govt was quite frankly naïve and wrong.

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Lets face the facts. The new 'board" has never made an announcement to ratify Grant"s job. GD has fired from the hip ever since the Protocol came out and the his veiled press conference on Friday was about the press getting the Protocol wrong. If I could be bothered with all the radio interviews where Grant was scathing, thereby giving the press the fuel I would. Trying to put pressure on a Govt was quite frankly naïve and wrong.

The fact that Grant is still the front man publicly for ETNZ shows that he is and will be the CEO of Emirates Team NZ for the next campaign, as he should be, as he is the one generating sponsorship dollars. The fact is the government with this being an election year needs to spend time surveying the public interest in the Cup before they spend any more tax dollars. The thing is, it was the press that got it wrong, GD in NO WAY has been bagging the event, only stating that it was too hard to generate sponsorship when there is no venue which couldn't be more true. I mean, what did they expect him to say?? Oracles done really well, we respect them, and tink this Cupis gonna be great?? Why would he? After the last debacle Oracle are the ones who need to look in the mirror!

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Clarkey, It is Saturday night the AB's are playing England. An international brand that does not rely on Govt funding and survives on winning results and continuing INTERNATIONAL sponsors. Enjoy it, it is after all just a game

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Clarkey, It is Saturday night the AB's are playing England. An international brand that does not rely on Govt funding and survives on winning results and continuing INTERNATIONAL sponsors. Enjoy it, it is after all just a game

Doesnt start till 7:30 so we have 10 mins, although I do think the ABs will put 50 on them this time

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Lets face the facts. The new 'board" has never made an announcement to ratify Grant"s job. GD has fired from the hip ever since the Protocol came out and the his veiled press conference on Friday was about the press getting the Protocol wrong. If I could be bothered with all the radio interviews where Grant was scathing, thereby giving the press the fuel I would. Trying to put pressure on a Govt was quite frankly naïve and wrong.

 

 

Is that you Russell?

 

or maybe Brad - you after a job?

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Another easy $28k. We are and never will be the rampant domineering athletes NZ think they are. At $2,89 to win by less than 12? Pretty sure Ben took some of that

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The rumor is that China Team will be Oracle's training partner, with design work (and probably a bunch of other help) coming from OTUSA.

GD told RG after the presser that Murray Jones and Morgan Larsen are involved with the Chinese effort but that he doesn't know much more than that.

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That is a good rant SClarke.

 

Pretty much whatever GD says will jumped on by group that seems intent on acting like children

 

I ask that everyone listens to the full vid in #117 above (40 mins). that summarises the situation very well from TNZ's perspective.

Another point: whatever the press says in their bid to sensationalise stuff may not be GD's nor TNZ's view.

 

Listened to the full video - twice - a drastic 180 from the last three years after having aggressively trashed the event. I'm probably one of the biggest grumpy critics over the last three years - no real secret there. Funny thing - I came into AC34 with no opinion either way of him. He certainly fixed that in short order.

 

However a simple 40 minute video this week doesn't come anywhere close to offsetting the damage he caused to AC34 - probably due to a personal vendetta, his hatred for RC. Clearly demonstrated at the charity dinner in NZ. Did you watch that video where RC flew to NZ to support the event, and grumpy ambushed him ? No class.

 

If you think for one minute grumpy didn't do his best to play the NZ press and ET sheeple (ie ta koodie) and let them run wild with his political and unprofessional games for the last three years as he sat back and laughed, you are either totally naive or ignorant, or both.

 

Wonder why he directed his comments to the press, and used the word "hysteria" ? Think he just now realized this with Herbie Gladwell and Dana the drama queen running open loop for the last three years ?

 

Seriously - he has not come close to paying his debt after one simple video - his true character is well understood.

You talk about paying debt, but remember, it was Grant Dalton that put together a design team who came up with a viable way of foiling an AC72 catamaran. It was Team NZ who introduced foiling into the AC on a large scale. It was also Grant Dalton who put together a deal with Luna Rossa to enter the AC, and if it wasn't for that we wouldn't have seen any racing until September, thanks to Russell and Larry's incompetent organisational skills.

 

It was then again Grant Dalton who allowed Artemis to race in a configuration outside of the AC72 class rule so all us fans got to see them on the water.

 

And It was also Grant Dalton who allowed a lay day when Oracle begged for it to get their shit together so they had a chance to win. So all you Oracle fanboys who think Grant Dalton ruined anything better look in their own backyard, because its Oracle who have ruined the event. And it was Grant Dalton who saved it from becoming more of a frikkin disaster then it already was.

 

Coming up with a foiling 72 was great. Many kudos. That was also OTUSA's plan from the start, but It took perfecting it to make a difference.

 

I'm not overlooking his contributions to the event - probably one of the better ones you missed was their (and all the teams) efforts to help Artemis load test big blue before sailing. Should have made a 2 minute video on that and he may have received some credit had he not lobbied to pull the LV start date in to a schedule that he knew Artemis couldn't meet simply to try and eliminate them before they could even launch, the sporting chap he is.

 

Grumpy didn't allow anything with the lay day - it was in the protocol for either team to use. I'm surprised ET didn't do the same later in the series if for no other reason than to give DB a breather. Sure looked like he could have used it at the end of the series when he was slumped over the helm..

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more wonderful news for ETNZ from in the NZ Herald

--

"There's no free deals and no free handouts on the waterfront for Team New Zealand," Harvey told the Herald on Sunday.

 

He said the Auckland Council-controlled organisation had been a generous supporter, charging Team NZ a "super peppercorn" rental for the last six years for its Viaduct Basin headquarters.

 

But with the site to be bulldozed for a multimillion-dollar development, the syndicate would have to pay market rates at the alternative site near Westhaven Marina.

 

"To be honest [my board] has lost our enthusiasm for generosity in light of what seems to be the Government not stepping up. If they do move the board are willing to house them again but it might not be on a sweetheart deal like before."

....

Public sentiment is also against the sailors, who last year blew a commanding lead against Cup holders Oracle in San Francisco. A Herald online poll opposed splurging more public money on chasing the Cup, with more than 80 per cent of the 5,500 voters against further taxpayer investment.

http://m.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11274235

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GD has his hands full with the frothers:

--

Dalton says the TNZ press conference was not even called to discuss government funding, but instead to discuss the newly unveiled, and revised, protocol for the 2017 America's Cup - and crucially, to convey that a Kiwi victory was more realistic than had first been portrayed.

 

Dalton has also put his own hands up, acknowledging he should have known questioning about government funding would be fielded.

 

"I'm embarrassed in the extreme that it went in that [funding] direction, frankly we should have anticipated, that but didn't," he said. "The claim of an ultimatum was absolutely not what was intended - it's pretty obvious doing so would only make things harder.

 

"The first 40 minutes of the press conference discussed the protocol, it's a shame the majority of what was reported though was on questions which came after that about government funding."

http://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/americas-cup/10159334/Team-New-Zealands-coffers-6m-and-counting

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GD and most of the sailors do not need the AC. Whom I am concerned for are the people "like you and me", accountants, technicians, admin staff, cleaners etc. They may face a hard time, if ETNZ folds. Struggling through joblessness sucks - for them as much as for anyone in any industry. Therefore those "let ETNZ die" comments feel heartless.

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GD and most of the sailors do not need the AC. Whom I am concerned for are the people "like you and me", accountants, technicians, admin staff, cleaners etc. They may face a hard time, if ETNZ folds. Struggling through joblessness sucks - for them as much as for anyone in any industry. Therefore those "let ETNZ die" comments feel heartless.

They're more than heartless, they're also ignorant of the fact that, as GD should point out more often, ETNZ is basically an 'exporter' since he brings so much fresh outside sponsorship money into NZ. And it is a lot, tens of $Millions. That has had job spinoff effects too.

 

There is for sure a strong anti-taxes sentiment in NZ, as anywhere. But there must be better fish to fry on that subject.

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GD has his hands full with the frothers:

--

Dalton says the TNZ press conference was not even called to discuss government funding, but instead to discuss the newly unveiled, and revised, protocol for the 2017 America's Cup - and crucially, to convey that a Kiwi victory was more realistic than had first been portrayed.

 

Dalton has also put his own hands up, acknowledging he should have known questioning about government funding would be fielded.

 

"I'm embarrassed in the extreme that it went in that [funding] direction, frankly we should have anticipated, that but didn't," he said. "The claim of an ultimatum was absolutely not what was intended - it's pretty obvious doing so would only make things harder.

 

"The first 40 minutes of the press conference discussed the protocol, it's a shame the majority of what was reported though was on questions which came after that about government funding."

http://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/americas-cup/10159334/Team-New-Zealands-coffers-6m-and-counting

 

 

Why the hell doesn't he just go to Fay or Erne$to for a loan?

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^ Looks like he's going to have to do that, and use some of it as collateral for a bank loan.

 

The longer term problem is if public sentiment continues to get turned against govt help to ETNZ and they miss out on the $M30 or so, that they've likely planned into their AC35 campaign plan already.

 

It was tough for GD that he was in the air when the protocol came out and the pitchforkers attacked the castle. But like I've suggested, the seeds had already been sown, the field was already fertile with so much bullshit, that it should be no surprise that the Herbie Lewises and the other conspiracy-fueled Herbie's cried out headlines about Unfair Herbie Technology cheating, AC45 cheating, unwinnable money odds, a stacked deck protocol, more expensive than last time, two against one, an unwinnable game, why bother, bleat bleat bleat bleat (oh, and please spend taxpayer money on <insert my cause here> instead).

 

Best thing for ETNZ is to hunker down until the cacophony wears thin again, then re-make the case.

 

edit: Seems counter-intuitive but maybe instead of taking the high road GD should instead have gone along with the shock jocks who were eager to bait him into a War of Words against JS, much as JS got baited into trying to name names as other possible team leaders. There's obviously a very strong appetitive for that crap, so maybe holding your nose and jumping into the cess pool is the best way to get sports fan Kiwis truly fired up and in a fighting mood. Rallying that cause sure got them attention last time, through whoever the constant well-poisoners were.

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Clarkey, It is Saturday night the AB's are playing England. An international brand that does not rely on Govt funding and survives on winning results and continuing INTERNATIONAL sponsors. Enjoy it, it is after all just a game

Doesnt start till 7:30 so we have 10 mins, although I do think the ABs will put 50 on them this time

Hmmm. Sadly Clarkey, the Rugby didn't go quite that well.

 

And now it looks like the Government aren't too happy with the electorate reaction to bailing TNZ. I'm having a very cranky Sunday morning!!!!!!!!

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^ Looks like he's going to have to do that, and use some of it as collateral for a bank loan.

 

The longer term problem is if public sentiment continues to get turned against govt help to ETNZ and they miss out on the $M30 or so, that they've likely planned into their AC35 campaign plan already.

 

It was tough for GD that he was in the air when the protocol came out and the pitchforkers attacked the castle. But like I've suggested, the seeds had already been sown, the field was already fertile with so much bullshit, that it should be no surprise that the Herbie Lewises and the other conspiracy-fueled Herbie's cried out headlines about Unfair Herbie Technology cheating, AC45 cheating, unwinnable money odds, a stacked deck protocol, more expensive than last time, two against one, an unwinnable game, why bother, bleat bleat bleat bleat (oh, and please spend taxpayer money on <insert my cause here> instead).

 

Best thing for ETNZ is to hunker down until the cacophony wears thin again, then re-make the case.

 

edit: Seems counter-intuitive but maybe instead of taking the high road GD should instead have gone along with the shock jocks who were eager to bait him into a War of Words against JS, much as JS got baited into trying to name names as other possible team leaders. There's obviously a very strong appetitive for that crap, so maybe holding your nose and jumping into the cess pool is the best way to get sports fan Kiwis truly fired up and in a fighting mood. Rallying that cause sure got them attention last time, through whoever the constant well-poisoners were.

Actually, Stinger, that's pretty intuitive. Good post.

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^ Thanks :)

 

It's actually the same sentiment that JS addressed, and that GD has both acknowledged and is trying to deal with too. Even Shoebridge, not as smarmy as Green sometime is but a bit conspiratorial too, admitted as much during a terrible grilling he took from Veitchy in a buzz saw interview yesterday, after the presser.

 

There's an undercurrent in NZ media that's damn crude. The AC is great fuel on that fire but apparently extends to other sports too. Stevero put up a good description of that landscape, much better than mine.

 

Feed bad meat to the local rabid dogs at your own risk that they'll grow increasingly rabid.

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Grumpy's positive attitude adjustment is comical. I'm sure there's worries on the E Team that if he doesn't get to complain soon his head will explode.

 

When he does get his Government funding I'm sure he'll instantly do a foiling tack and make up for the bitching time he's lost.

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Clarkey, It is Saturday night the AB's are playing England. An international brand that does not rely on Govt funding and survives on winning results and continuing INTERNATIONAL sponsors. Enjoy it, it is after all just a game

Doesnt start till 7:30 so we have 10 mins, although I do think the ABs will put 50 on them this time

Hmmm. Sadly Clarkey, the Rugby didn't go quite that well.

 

And now it looks like the Government aren't too happy with the electorate reaction to bailing TNZ. I'm having a very cranky Sunday morning!!!!!!!!

A wins a win. The AB's dominated the second half so nothing to worry about. England felt good but as Kiwi's do, the chips get down and what happens,we always come through. Still World champions, still dominant.

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There was underarm/hand bowling conspiracy (similar to AC)... with the, gasp, bought video referee; he saw something that the rest of NZ did not ... in that try. But pommes played very well indeed. Intense game.

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Some are little bit naive here. Why would GD or any other competitor criticize the event for which they still try to find money ?

When they have sponsors then they will defend their interests against the organization.

Journos don't have this oblifation and have the freedom to express themselves.

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Great interview with Kevin Shoebridge on Newstalk ZB. Some interesting points raised and some interesting answers to those questions. Kevin did quite well in answering some valid points. So no input into the protocol?? Sounds like the Aussies played a game of Yuka and instead of using their team mates, they thought they had a good hand and went it alone. Thats what it sounds like anyway, then ETNZ wanted clarification and consequently it was amended. Those that think the Team are imploding or internally the Team don't want GD involved, are all wrong. Echo'd by Dean Barker and Kevin Shoebridge.

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Some are little bit naive here. Why would GD or any other competitor criticize the event for which they still try to find money ?

 

 

Really ?

 

Why don't you ask grumpy - he did it for three years. I guess his govt funded insurance policy is less than last time around, which is also when he threatened to sue if it was questioned.

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Some are little bit naive here. Why would GD or any other competitor criticize the event for which they still try to find money ?

 

 

Really ?

 

he did it for three years.

Yep, and wait he secures a sponsor.

But after insulting the Swiss and the Kiwis you will probably hate another country at this time.

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Great interview with Kevin Shoebridge on Newstalk ZB. Some interesting points raised and some interesting answers to those questions. Kevin did quite well in answering some valid points. So no input into the protocol?? Sounds like the Aussies played a game of Yuka and instead of using their team mates, they thought they had a good hand and went it alone. Thats what it sounds like anyway, then ETNZ wanted clarification and consequently it was amended. Those that think the Team are imploding or internally the Team don't want GD involved, are all wrong. Echo'd by Dean Barker and Kevin Shoebridge.

 

Kevin is a very sharp cat and well spoken .

 

They should have had him as the spokesman long ago .

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Some are little bit naive here. Why would GD or any other competitor criticize the event for which they still try to find money ?

 

 

Really ?

 

he did it for three years.

Yep, and wait he secures a sponsor.

But after insulting the Swiss and the Kiwis you will probably hate another country at this time.

 

I don't think that is actually accurate.

 

He already had secured the sponsor before he started mouthing off .

 

Its a little different at present and he is still in the beginning of the fund raising.

 

On other news it appears that ET is out of bucks in a week or so.

 

Has anyone bothered to ask how they blew through $ 5,000,000 ???

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Some are little bit naive here. Why would GD or any other competitor criticize the event for which they still try to find money ?

 

 

Really ?

 

he did it for three years.

Yep, and wait he secures a sponsor.

But after insulting the Swiss and the Kiwis you will probably hate another country at this time.

 

I don't think that is actually accurate.

 

He already had secured the sponsor before he started mouthing off .

 

Its a little different at present and he is still in the beginning of the fund raising.

 

On other news it appears that ET is out of bucks in a week or so.

 

Has anyone bothered to ask how they blew through $ 5,000,000 ???

This exactly what I say, why would he belittle the event for which he is looking for money. Later he will defend his sponsors against the organization.

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Some are little bit naive here. Why would GD or any other competitor criticize the event for which they still try to find money ?

 

 

Really ?

 

he did it for three years.

Yep, and wait he secures a sponsor.

But after insulting the Swiss and the Kiwis you will probably hate another country at this time.

 

I don't think that is actually accurate.

 

He already had secured the sponsor before he started mouthing off .

 

Its a little different at present and he is still in the beginning of the fund raising.

 

On other news it appears that ET is out of bucks in a week or so.

 

Has anyone bothered to ask how they blew through $ 5,000,000 ???

This exactly what I say, why would he belittle the event for which he is looking for money. Later he will defend his sponsors against the organization.

 

Well that's an excellent question for GD as who the hell knows whats he was thinking about .

 

Its obvious that someone has gotten him to wise up as Grumpy II is a big improvement.

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The public aren't anti TNZ as much as they are more anti the AC and the bollocks it represents, a small but important differance.

 

Spittys rantings don't help. He's just coming accross as a spoiled child who lost his favour dummy and all he did was turn a lot more people against both him and the AC. But then that could be Oracles plan, knobble the only real opersition they have faced for many many years.

 

It'll be interesting to see how it all pans out.

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Some are little bit naive here. Why would GD or any other competitor criticize the event for which they still try to find money ?

 

 

Really ?

Why don't you ask grumpy - he did it for three years. I guess his govt funded insurance policy is less than last time around, which is also when he threatened to sue if it was questioned.

Yep, and wait he secures a sponsor.

 

Not sure why you struggle with the obvious facts that stare you in the face.

 

Guess your blind to the elephant that's been in the room for three years..

 

It's not that hard, but then again EB was your hero, so that explains a lot :)

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One thing I find funny is...For the last 3 years, most, if not all, of what GD has said is correct! It may be negative, but thats because everything about the AC has been negative. Its just that Russell and Jimmy didn't want him telling the truth about the AC, they would rather him come out, after all the failures of OTUSA and say "The AC is/ was the greatest event in yachting today. Even though it was a lie. And if it wasn't for GD and ETNZ the last Cup would've been a complete and utter failure. Why don't Jimmy and Russell say, we would like to thank ETNZ and GD for carrying AC34 and saving it from complete disaster because we failed to deliver in almost every aspect of everything we promised. Why don't they apologise to the sailing world for cheating, instead of throwing individuals under the bus? And Im sorry, but slamming one man professionally for telling the truth, then personally attacking him for being negative is a little bit of a double standard. But thats America for you I guess.

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Jimmy is starting to sound squeaky. They need to pull him off this PR tour I reckon; all he's doing is turning ETNZ into major underdogs, which is the only thing that will guarantee them the funding they need.

 

Not sure that is going to be too easy. Word on the street is that OR didn't want Jimmy, Joey or Rome back after the last go round, but Jimmy went behind a few backs and signed contracts for the three of them directly with Lazza. So not a completely happy family at OR either.

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Good first post Mr whodunnit.

 

Now tell us the real story behind the cheating.

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One thing I find funny is...For the last 3 years, most, if not all, of what GD has said is correct! It may be negative, but thats because everything about the AC has been negative. Its just that Russell and Jimmy didn't want him telling the truth about the AC, they would rather him come out, after all the failures of OTUSA and say "The AC is/ was the greatest event in yachting today. Even though it was a lie. And if it wasn't for GD and ETNZ the last Cup would've been a complete and utter failure. Why don't Jimmy and Russell say, we would like to thank ETNZ and GD for carrying AC34 and saving it from complete disaster because we failed to deliver in almost every aspect of everything we promised. Why don't they apologise to the sailing world for cheating, instead of throwing individuals under the bus? And Im sorry, but slamming one man professionally for telling the truth, then personally attacking him for being negative is a little bit of a double standard. But thats America for you I guess.

It's a good point and worth repeating. Without ETNZ, AC34 would have been a total fiasco. As for "negativity", what is so dreadful about someone saying what they actually think? Would some of you rather hear cheerful lies? I guess so.

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Do you think Coutts or Elison might pull some cash out of their bloated wallets and give Team NZ a Cash Loan to keep them afloat like Ernesto did back in 2004?

 

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/catherine-masters/news/article.cfm?a_id=49&objectid=3581493

Saturday Jul 31, 2004

Alinghi boss Ernesto Bertarelli has dipped into his own pocket to make sure New Zealand gets to the America's Cup. ...

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There's quite a few things that Coutts would like to give Grumpy but money ain't on that list.

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One thing I find funny is...For the last 3 years, most, if not all, of what GD has said is correct! It may be negative, but thats because everything about the AC has been negative. Its just that Russell and Jimmy didn't want him telling the truth about the AC, they would rather him come out, after all the failures of OTUSA and say "The AC is/ was the greatest event in yachting today. Even though it was a lie. And if it wasn't for GD and ETNZ the last Cup would've been a complete and utter failure. Why don't Jimmy and Russell say, we would like to thank ETNZ and GD for carrying AC34 and saving it from complete disaster because we failed to deliver in almost every aspect of everything we promised. Why don't they apologise to the sailing world for cheating, instead of throwing individuals under the bus? And Im sorry, but slamming one man professionally for telling the truth, then personally attacking him for being negative is a little bit of a double standard. But thats America for you I guess.

It's a good point and worth repeating. Without ETNZ, AC34 would have been a total fiasco. As for "negativity", what is so dreadful about someone saying what they actually think? Would some of you rather hear cheerful lies? I guess so.

+ 1 Here in the US there is a great "spin-culture" where revisionism through hindsight bias is par for the course. OR won? Oh, the event must have been a huge success and GD should have never questioned anything.

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Jimmy is starting to sound squeaky. They need to pull him off this PR tour I reckon; all he's doing is turning ETNZ into major underdogs, which is the only thing that will guarantee them the funding they need.

 

Not sure that is going to be too easy. Word on the street is that OR didn't want Jimmy, Joey or Rome back after the last go round, but Jimmy went behind a few backs and signed contracts for the three of them directly with Lazza. So not a completely happy family at OR either.

Humm, interesting if true. Lazza obviously knew what he was doing, putting Coutts in a sandwich between him,TE and a few others on one side and JS on the other. Classic.

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sclarke,

You say AC34 would have been a failure without GD? I could say it was a success in spite of GD. RC and Larry as his benifactor were very ambitious in dragging the AC community into the fastest in shore race boat designs to date. But, due to the huge transition and a very tight world economy they compromised and decided to make AC34 a transitional Cup. The defender and the COR hired Morrelli and Melvin to write a class rule to prevent full foiling for this iteration. It may have been possible that there would have been a tighter challenger series had TNZ not gone renegade and hired the rules designers that just happened to have found a loop hole. But, that is the essence of the AC spirit. Find a way within the rules to create the fastest boat/team combination and execute well on the race course. Both Artemis and Luna Rosa got left wanting. Team Oracle did a fantastic job responding when their backs were against the wall and TNZ just didn't think Oracle had enough runway to pull it off.

A lot of people are saying that the only way to gauge a successful AC is by the number of teams entered. I say the best way to measure the success of the AC is by the amount of interest it draws. Two teams battling at the highest level in the fastest boats and having the result decided in the very last race is the highest level of drama in sports to date (from a sailors perspective). If Oracle hadn't stepped up their game to beat TNZ's full foiling ploy, that would have been one of the worst AC's in recent memory.

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One thing I find funny is...For the last 3 years, most, if not all, of what GD has said is correct! It may be negative, but thats because everything about the AC has been negative. Its just that Russell and Jimmy didn't want him telling the truth about the AC, they would rather him come out, after all the failures of OTUSA and say "The AC is/ was the greatest event in yachting today. Even though it was a lie. And if it wasn't for GD and ETNZ the last Cup would've been a complete and utter failure. Why don't Jimmy and Russell say, we would like to thank ETNZ and GD for carrying AC34 and saving it from complete disaster because we failed to deliver in almost every aspect of everything we promised. Why don't they apologise to the sailing world for cheating, instead of throwing individuals under the bus? And Im sorry, but slamming one man professionally for telling the truth, then personally attacking him for being negative is a little bit of a double standard. But thats America for you I guess.

Jimmy and Russell - American?

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sclarke,

You say AC34 would have been a failure without GD? I could say it was a success in spite of GD. RC and Larry as his benifactor were very ambitious in dragging the AC community into the fastest in shore race boat designs to date. But, due to the huge transition and a very tight world economy they compromised and decided to make AC34 a transitional Cup. The defender and the COR hired Morrelli and Melvin to write a class rule to prevent full foiling for this iteration. It may have been possible that there would have been a tighter challenger series had TNZ not gone renegade and hired the rules designers that just happened to have found a loop hole. But, that is the essence of the AC spirit. Find a way within the rules to create the fastest boat/team combination and execute well on the race course. Both Artemis and Luna Rosa got left wanting. Team Oracle did a fantastic job responding when their backs were against the wall and TNZ just didn't think Oracle had enough runway to pull it off.

A lot of people are saying that the only way to gauge a successful AC is by the number of teams entered. I say the best way to measure the success of the AC is by the amount of interest it draws. Two teams battling at the highest level in the fastest boats and having the result decided in the very last race is the highest level of drama in sports to date (from a sailors perspective). If Oracle hadn't stepped up their game to beat TNZ's full foiling ploy, that would have been one of the worst AC's in recent memory.

I had totally forgotten M&M had written rule to discourage full foiling. I guess you could say that TNZ introduced disruptive technology - which threw all of AC34 into chaos. Good on them - but this point of view is 180 degrees from "saving" the cup.

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The defender and the COR hired Morrelli and Melvin to write a class rule to prevent full foiling for this iteration.

IIRC Morelli denied that.

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sclarke,

You say AC34 would have been a failure without GD? I could say it was a success in spite of GD. RC and Larry as his benifactor were very ambitious in dragging the AC community into the fastest in shore race boat designs to date. But, due to the huge transition and a very tight world economy they compromised and decided to make AC34 a transitional Cup. The defender and the COR hired Morrelli and Melvin to write a class rule to prevent full foiling for this iteration. It may have been possible that there would have been a tighter challenger series had TNZ not gone renegade and hired the rules designers that just happened to have found a loop hole. But, that is the essence of the AC spirit. Find a way within the rules to create the fastest boat/team combination and execute well on the race course. Both Artemis and Luna Rosa got left wanting. Team Oracle did a fantastic job responding when their backs were against the wall and TNZ just didn't think Oracle had enough runway to pull it off.

A lot of people are saying that the only way to gauge a successful AC is by the number of teams entered. I say the best way to measure the success of the AC is by the amount of interest it draws. Two teams battling at the highest level in the fastest boats and having the result decided in the very last race is the highest level of drama in sports to date (from a sailors perspective). If Oracle hadn't stepped up their game to beat TNZ's full foiling ploy, that would have been one of the worst AC's in recent memory.

 

There are always two sides to every story.

 

This one looks good to me .

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If Oracle 17.1 was intended to foil from the get go, why did they design so much flex into the platform. Controlling the AOA of the lifting portion of the main foils is critical to stable controlled full foiling. But, Dogzilla in its skimming state was very flexible and very fast.

And if the AC34 design rule was not intended to prohibit full foiling while allowing for semi-lifting foils why were the rudder elevators restricted to only being adjustable in pitch between races.

While claims may have been stated to the contrary after the fact, the evidence doesn't prove these claims to be rational or believable.

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