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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

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^nice

who woulda thought that in one flush we get Darth Barker and a Jimmy, all laid out on fresh loo paper and spiralling down in a symbiotic dark hole orbit.

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9 hours ago, k-f-u said:

can I also post a picture of the day? Even if it's 2y old? Even more fun now...

 

The #letsgetdalton tag an be shoved up the arses of all those who have said he was an ungracious winner. Wonder how #letsgetjimmy would have gone down prior to the cup if roles were reversed. Karma is a wonderful thing. 

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10 hours ago, k-f-u said:

can I also post a picture of the day? Even if it's 2y old? Even more fun now...

 

The comments are hilarious. 2 years ago JS says "I think they will beat TNZ" . Scroll down to the bottom and you've got posts made today "How'd this turn out for ya?"

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What I absolutely love about this whole cup tour is that they are letting people actually touch it, its not being kept behind ropes and 4 heavies, GD grabs it out of the case and takes it right to the crowd for he knows what this means to everyone and letting everyone have their little moment to touch such a iconic trophy is just magic. I've yet to do so yet but I hope I can one day. 

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15 minutes ago, KZ-1 said:

What I absolutely love about this whole cup tour is that they are letting people actually touch it, its not being kept behind ropes and 4 heavies, GD grabs it out of the case and takes it right to the crowd for he knows what this means to everyone and letting everyone have their little moment to touch such a iconic trophy is just magic. I've yet to do so yet but I hope I can one day. 

I guess ETNZ hasn't quite learned from past mistakes after all.  :lol:

1z5ukud.jpg

WetHog  :ph34r:

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2 hours ago, Sea Breeze 74 said:

There has been much talk about the day ETNZ sailed against ART in conditions out of range for their boards. Does anyone know which day/races that was?

Day 2 LV final. Races 4,5,6. :D

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50 minutes ago, WetHog said:

I guess ETNZ hasn't quite learned from past mistakes after all.  :lol:

1z5ukud.jpg

WetHog  :ph34r:

The biggest mistake was not building a cup that could only hold a teaspoon of bubbly.

The cup is now bigger better due to Team NZ previous holdings

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1 hour ago, KZ-1 said:

What I absolutely love about this whole cup tour is that they are letting people actually touch it, its not being kept behind ropes and 4 heavies, GD grabs it out of the case and takes it right to the crowd for he knows what this means to everyone and letting everyone have their little moment to touch such a iconic trophy is just magic. I've yet to do so yet but I hope I can one day. 

At parliament yesterday, there were a couple of women that wanted a pic of them with the cup in the background, so I happily offered to take the shot for them.

But....some police officers were in the way, so I yelled out "Hey Champ, Get out of the way!" whilst gesticulating wildly.

So, what did the police do? They got the hell out of the way!

We joked that if we were in the USA, they might have shot me! :D

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56 minutes ago, jaysper said:

At parliament yesterday, there were a couple of women that wanted a pic of them with the cup in the background, so I happily offered to take the shot for them.

But....some police officers were in the way, so I yelled out "Hey Champ, Get out of the way!" whilst gesticulating wildly.

So, what did the police do? They got the hell out of the way!

We joked that if we were in the USA, they might have shot me! :D

If they had known you were "Jasper of SA fame", they probably would have shot you (twice)!

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2 hours ago, WetHog said:

I guess ETNZ hasn't quite learned from past mistakes after all.  :lol:

1z5ukud.jpg

WetHog  :ph34r:

I wonder if the original cup is in ETNZ's possesson, because didn't Larry commision a second one for himself?

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2 minutes ago, Rskiff said:

I wonder if the original cup is in ETNZ's possesson, because didn't Larry commision a second one for himself?

If so, perhaps that iz the oridjin ov the eksprshin "For myself" ?

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1 hour ago, Barnyb said:

If they had known you were "Jasper of SA fame", they probably would have shot you (twice)!

Lol! And rightly so. Ray recognized the t shirt and asked what my SA handle is. Said he had seen some of my posts but was probably just being polite. Glad the parade wasn't today cos the weather is just shit house!

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1 hour ago, MR.CLEAN said:

are you black?

Hmmmm, I don't buy the whole thing about US cops being racist and killing blacks. The stats I've seen seem to indicate that blacks and whites are killed roughly in proportion to the rate at which they commit crime. Therefore what you guys seem to have are a bunch of trigger happy cops not racist ones.

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5 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Hmmmm, I don't buy the whole thing about US cops being racist and killing blacks. The stats I've seen seem to indicate that blacks and whites are killed roughly in proportion to the rate at which they commit crime. Therefore what you guys seem to have are a bunch of trigger happy cops not racist ones.

FFS STFU you're embarrassing yourself Jason!! :blink:

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Nice read ...

Cup Half Empty

How to fix the world's most prestigious sailing race.

JUL 17, 2017 | By ANGUS PHILLIPS

 
  
 
 
 
280x280-e3934bdbc3c4152e862a469ad4f52640.jpg
New Zealand leads USA during the fourth race of the America's Cup in Bermuda (2017). Photo credit: GREGORY BULL / AP
 

Well, that was quick! The 35th America’s Cup was over in a heartbeat. It took barely a month for Emirates Team New Zealand to buzzsaw through a fleet of four challengers before shellacking the U.S. defender, Oracle Team USA, 7-1, to snatch yachting’s oldest prize. This was not your father’s America’s Cup—the boats were 50-foot dragonflies skeeting across the water on hydrofoils at nearly 50 mph and the sailors wore armor, not Izod Lacoste.

Now what?

As a proud senior member of SINS, the Society of International Nautical Scribes, a group that historically holds just one beer-infused meeting every three or four years on the first lay day of the America’s Cup match, wherever it is, I think I deserve a say, even if I did miss the last meeting. I say let’s Make America’s Cup Great Again.

As a reporter for the Washington Post, I covered every Cup from Dennis Conner’s successful defense in Newport, R.I., in 1980 to Larry Ellison’s weird win in Valencia, Spain, in 2010. I watched the America’s Cup sail off to Australia in 1983, come back in 1987, then go away again (to New Zealand) in 1995. I even sailed in some Cup trials, on Team New Zealand in 1995 and Ellison’s Oracle in 2000, as nonparticipating 17th man......

http://www.weeklystandard.com/cup-half-empty/article/2008735

 

 

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2 hours ago, Indio said:

"I say let’s Make America’s Cup Great Again."

Proudly published by America's "No. 1 Conservative Magazine" ... ?

(Is there any other culture in the world where 'conservative' is seen as something to be proud of?!)

Yeah, I love those nostalgic ideas of poop decks, captains hats, aviator sunglasses, pipes and Lacoste shirts, but no I'm sorry, time marches on, and yes he's right, he's a fuddy-duddy ...

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2 hours ago, InnerVoid said:

http://imgur.com/a/HtoYv

Parade in Christchurch, if anyone wants to see my photos, not the best.. but meh, it's was freezing cold, it hailed on me, rained on me etc. but I was there.. :)

Shock one hand and got a hug from one of them. ;)

Good effort, does look fucking miserable, well worth it though.

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10 hours ago, weta27 said:

Proudly published by America's "No. 1 Conservative Magazine" ... ?

(Is there any other culture in the world where 'conservative' is seen as something to be proud of?!)

Yeah, I love those nostalgic ideas of poop decks, captains hats, aviator sunglasses, pipes and Lacoste shirts, but no I'm sorry, time marches on, and yes he's right, he's a fuddy-duddy ...

Nothing at all wrong with "conservatism", especially when compared to "progressivism" - but I agree there should be no going back to lead mines as we know them, for the AC.

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You'd have to agree that the American brand of conservatism, as evidenced by the state of the White House, is blind to current reality, let alone to progress ...

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7 minutes ago, weta27 said:

You'd have to agree that the American brand of conservatism, as evidenced by the state of the White House, is blind to current reality, let alone to progress ...

Hmmm. Thread drift but...are all American conservatives tarred with the Trump brush? 

I think not.

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You're right (or maybe it's me that's left :)), I don't mean to get political!

I guess I'm just saying that we shouldn't expect particularly forward-thinking opinions in a publication that describes itself as America's "No. 1 Conservative" whatever ....

However, it does raise the intriguing thought of what direction the Cup might take if it ever ends up back at the old-guard NYYC?

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20 hours ago, KZ-1 said:

What I absolutely love about this whole cup tour is that they are letting people actually touch it, its not being kept behind ropes and 4 heavies, GD grabs it out of the case and takes it right to the crowd for he knows what this means to everyone and letting everyone have their little moment to touch such a iconic trophy is just magic. I've yet to do so yet but I hope I can one day. 

lets hope they rough it up a bit down there!

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41 minutes ago, weta27 said:

You're right (or maybe it's me that's left :)), I don't mean to get political!

I guess I'm just saying that we shouldn't expect particularly forward-thinking opinions in a publication that describes itself as America's "No. 1 Conservative" whatever ....

However, it does raise the intriguing thought of what direction the Cup might take if it ever ends up back at the old-guard NYYC?

That Angus piece got picked up by a bunch of other sites too, all of them necessarily (and thank christfully) less conservative than the neo-con Weekly Standard. But yes, it's mostly about Angus himself, and his apparent glorious past memories from decades ago in Newport. Which is fine and understandable.

As to the NYYC, they did recently get a fleet of forward-looking cat foilers, so who knows?

One element that could be good to recreate, even if the boats hopefully remain at the new cutting edge frontier of yacht design imo, is a longer trials buildup. Without Jason this time the Bermuda AC event, at only a month long, would have been a touch too much 'pop up.'

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2 hours ago, weta27 said:

I agree, the 2017 event was come and gone far too quickly, and I'm sure that sponsors in particular would support a return to a longer format.

I actually really like the 2-3 month campaigns of '87 etc.

Trouble is, when ETNZ are fighting teams such as Orifice with much greater resources who have shown an ability to copy quickly, this may not be a good thing.

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Have been following the forum for two cup cycles now but think it'ss time to get off the fence and get more engaged. Re flying cats on the Hauraki Gulf... who remembers this?

 

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4 hours ago, weta27 said:

 

...However, it does raise the intriguing thought of what direction the Cup might take if it ever ends up back at the old-guard NYYC?

Are you aware that NYYC members are having a fleet of foiling trimarans built in the Netherlands, and that either the current or a past commodore has a Gunboat?  I think the 'old guard' might not do badly...

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13 minutes ago, minimumfuss said:

Words to live by in today's ODT

 

 

 

20170713_130650_resized.jpg

"No mate. You're doing just fine. Keep it up".

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4 minutes ago, pwormwood said:

Are you aware that NYYC members are having a fleet of foiling trimarans built in the Netherlands, and that either the current or a past commodore has a Gunboat?  I think the 'old guard' might not do badly...

I take it all back! Especially don't want to be arguing with somebody who owns a gunboat ...

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1 hour ago, Honu007 said:

Have been following the forum for two cup cycles now but think it'ss time to get off the fence and get more engaged. Re flying cats on the Hauraki Gulf... who remembers this?

 

i think that they should actually race the coastal classic all the way this year.  there would be there and back before breakfast. 

 

 

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6 hours ago, Honu007 said:

Have been following the forum for two cup cycles now but think it'ss time to get off the fence and get more engaged. Re flying cats on the Hauraki Gulf... who remembers this?

 

Sounded like artemis howl foils in that video, @weta27 any iidea which ones they had in that day? 

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On 7/11/2017 at 11:39 AM, KoW said:

Yes that may well be what was happening, and I don't think anyone would begrudge a young Burling if he chose to defect to an AC50 series that had nothing to do with the AC (especially if the new AC class rule isn't in cats similar to A50s)

Actually I'd strongly argue if Coutts and co. are serious about running a series independent of the AC then they need Burling and/or Ashby and Tuke  - how could any new AC50 circuit have any credibility when the proven best AC50 sailors aren't involved? The America's Cup gives instant credibility, but without it, or the best sailors, boats, teams and tech, an AC50 series would just be another beach regatta.

If I were ETNZ though, I'd seriously consider keeping involved in any new circuit that did pop up (even if their new AC class rule isn't an AC50 type boat) - That would keep their sailors and designers involved and sharp, (and in the hunt for billionaire prize money), and stop their IP and talent being snaffled by other teams between ACs. If Coutts and co. tried to block ETNZ from being involved in their little series, they'd pretty quickly lose any cred at all IMO.

 

tell you what though would have been epic to see some ac50 fleet racing.  

 

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Maybe the current ac50s can be retrofitted a la VOR and made one design for fleet racing with all current teams providing all boats gaining discounted entry into a new ACWS fleet racing series this would not preclude using a hi tech foiling mono hull for the AC final with some point carry over?

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Yeah would hate to see the AC50s discarded - either include them in the new class or use them for a new version of the ACWS, as a lead-in to the new class.

JazzFreak, that was the AC45T, so sorry I have no idea what they were using back then.

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54 minutes ago, Jazz Freak said:

Sounded like artemis howl foils in that video, @weta27 any iidea which ones they had in that day? 

You know that's not the AC50, right?

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Reflections...

Russell Coutts lashes out at Emirates Team New Zealand for biased reports and “constant bickering”

24shares
 

Russell Coutts has launched an attack at the New Zealand media and Emirates Team New Zealand for undermining the 'democratic' process of the new America's Cup format

A massive salvo has been fired by Russell Coutts at the New Zealand media and Emirates Team New Zealand. Coutts accuses the media of bias and says that Team New Zealand “are determined to forge a lonely path against the consensus of the rest of the America’s Cup community…”

“Do they have a vision at all?” he demands.

The expat Kiwi sailor, now CEO of the America’s Cup Events Authority, is one of the architects of the new framework agreement, setting out a future format for a two-year America’s Cup cycle. All the current teams have signed up to it with the exception of Team New Zealand.

Read our report about the framework agreement here.

This has put the team at odds with the others. Jimmy Spithill of Oracle Team USA was quick to weigh in with his comments, too, saying: “For some reason Kiwi media, along with Sail World and Scuttlebutt, continue to paint a non factual one-sided picture.”

“Like the rest of us, the key guys at ETNZ are paid well,” he adds. “I’m still amazed at the multiple millions the NZ government continue to pump into the team of over 95 people – much bigger than us. Now it makes sense why they are building such a massive base over here. Plus If you want the real facts, check out [Coutts’s statement] and then make a decision.”

Coutts put his comments in a lengthy Facebook post – all of it worth a read:

‘It appears the silly season has once again arrived, driven by a select few in the media who seem to find it difficult to separate fact from fiction, or research a balanced story, for the benefit of their readers.

In particular, the so called reporting from Dana Johannsen of the NZ Herald often lacks both accuracy and balance and it’s for this reason that many people usually dismiss her articles.

‘However this week Dana Johannsen wrote of “naked self interest” and “self serving rules changes” in an attempt to explain why ORACLE TEAM USA would be racing in the Louis Vuitton America’s Cup Qualifiers, so I feel compelled in this instance to respond and point out at least some of the follies in her story telling.

‘Dana seems to have forgotten that Emirates Team New Zealand actually wanted the same Qualifiers racing in New Zealand where ORACLE TEAM USA would have raced against all other teams, just as they are doing in Bermuda!

image: https://keyassets.timeincuk.net/inspirewp/live/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2017/03/m1788_crop169014_1024x576_proportional_14879747289AE5-533x400.jpg

m1788_crop169014_1024x576_proportional_1

15/2/17- Emirates Team New Zealand sail their America’s Cup Class race boat for the second day in Auckland New Zealand

‘In reality, history would in fact suggest that it’s very difficult to accurately predict who this joint racing might eventually benefit, and it certainly isn’t a new feature that the Defender could race or practice against a Challenger.

‘In 1987, Kiwi Magic trained against the Defender, Kookaburra, just prior to the America’s Cup finals. The Defender would go on to lose. However, in 1992 the Defender refused to sail against the Challengers and successfully defended the Cup. Then in 1995, the Defender adopted the same strategy and lost.

‘In 2000, as a New Zealand Defender, we were open to sailing against the Challengers but only the Nippon Challenge accepted our offer. In hindsight the Challengers may have benefitted more from racing us than we did from racing them, because the result ended 5-0 in favour of Team New Zealand.

‘Then, prior to the 2003 America’s Cup, Team New Zealand refused to sail against all Challengers, believing they were faster with their ‘hula’. Of course, history proved otherwise when Alinghi then won 5-0. So, prior to the 2007 final races, Emirates Team New Zealand did in fact race against Alinghi and the result was closer, although they still lost the final match 5-2.

‘It would therefore seem to be somewhat ridiculous, and perhaps bordering on arrogant, to assume that racing against the defending champion would somehow favour the Defender. The reality is that it might and it equally might not.

‘Now let’s explore the real reason why the new rules were written to mandate that all teams must race against each other, and if Dana had done even a small amount of research or made a few calls to other teams to actually fact check her story, she might have drawn a more reasonable and logical conclusion.

‘In past America’s Cups, we’ve seen both Challengers and the Defender build two boats capable of in house racing and for the most part train in isolation for years, resulting in an arms race that was expensive, inefficient and provided almost no commercial benefit to the team sponsors during those training periods.

‘In particular, the Defender would typically gear up with two fully fledged sailing teams, which they had to fund for 3-4 years.

This time, to avoid that arms race and to provide more commercial exposure and value for all teams and their sponsors, it was decided to involve all teams in racing.

‘After all, the current Defender is from the USA, which of course is a market of major promotional interest to almost all sponsors involved in the America’s Cup. So this year, all teams get to race against the US Defender in two televised races each, and benefit from the media coverage generated. In the past, only one of the top challengers would have raced against the Defender (in the final races) and the media return for almost all other teams, apart from the eventual Challenger, provided poor results. Sponsors received poor value and walked away from the Cup.

‘It also works for the Defender, in that the sponsors of ORACLE TEAM USA will also gain valuable additional exposure in countries like France, Japan, Sweden, the UK and New Zealand.

 

‘Most of the teams seem to want that, whether they are a Challenger or Defender in the future, and I am pretty sure that should New Zealand win this edition, its sponsors, including the New Zealand government, would likely wish for the same!

‘This new format has saved every team a lot of unnecessary cost and will provide a greater exposure for all.

‘All teams have built only one boat, even ORACLE TEAM USA, the team that Dana Johannsen says is acting out of self interest. All teams have fewer staff and therefore less cost as a result of the new rules. It is a win – win for everyone.

‘For example, ORACLE TEAM USA has reduced its staff by approximately a third, compared with AC 34. ETNZ, despite promoting themselves as an underfunded, small team, actually has one of the largest and best resourced outfits, currently with a listed staff of 96. Even this is still considerably less than the numbers they had in San Francisco.

And while Team New Zealand complains about the rules being decided by majority vote, I would suggest that such a democratic process is far better than the old system where the Defender and its elected Challenger of Record decided all the rules.

‘To be clear, New Zealand has actually voted in favor of the majority of the rules changes in this current campaign, although they are not shy in criticizing the same process that has served their self interest well, on the few occasions when the democratic vote has gone against them.

‘This America’s Cup also marks the very first time in over 166 years of history, where the regatta management is truly independent. America’s Cup Race Management (ACRM) is wholly-owned and equally funded by each of the teams. ACRM is responsible for everything that happens on the field of play, for all regatta officials, umpires, and race committee decisions.

‘The commercial arm of the America’s Cup, ACEA, is however controlled by the Defender who also has to underwrite the risk. Some of those event commercial rights were shared with other teams that hosted venues and yes, like all other teams, ETNZ was offered the chance to host an America’s Cup World Series event in New Zealand which they declined.

‘When I compare the current structure, with an independent ACRM, led by the respected Iain Murray, controlling all competitive aspects, to when the America’s Cup was last in New Zealand, it was a very different scenario. The race committee for the Match was from the defending club, the Royal New Zealand Yacht Squadron. That race committee decided when to race and when not to race whereas ACRM have a fully automated wind measuring system and the rules mandate racing must be when the wind is between 6 and 25 knots.

‘It is also worth noting that in many of the past America’s Cups, even the international jury was elected by the host club!

‘This new arrangement, where the teams have equal voting power and equally fund the race management operations, is a massive step forward for the America’s Cup in terms of good governance, even if the vote occasionally goes against the wishes of one team.

‘In that respect, it’s clear from Team New Zealand’s recent social media posts that they are determined to forge a lonely path against the consensus of the rest of the America’s Cup community, which includes the teams and all current event sponsors.

‘Five teams have laid out a framework for the future, which has been developed by consensus, widely supported by all current event sponsors, built from expert advice from all over the world, from some of the most respected, experienced individuals from business as well as sport. It aims to lay a solid commercial and sporting foundation for what happens next.

‘Continuity, consistency and clarity are important features to all stakeholders. Creating a commercially sustainable America’s Cup is a must for the benefit of the many, and the sport as a whole, not just the few.

‘While it’s certainly the right of Team New Zealand to have an alternative view, I have to ask, “What is it?”, because they certainly haven’t shared it with any of the current teams and despite being given every opportunity to do so on multiple occasions, they have refused to even engage with the process.

‘Do they favour a return to a format where most of the teams don’t return enough value to their sponsors? Do they prefer a format where there is only racing at the final venue? Do they have a vision at all? If so, and if they successfully win this Cup, how do they propose to make that work commercially for visiting teams, because it certainly didn’t work when the America’s Cup was previously hosted in New Zealand.

‘Surely this constant bickering isn’t the way forward, or at least that’s the view of five of the other current teams and investors and let’s face it, most of them have a relatively successful track record of running sustainable businesses!

‘While the plucky underdog story is a powerful marketing tool for Team New Zealand in its home market, we’d like to believe it could be deployed without pulling down the reputation of the other competitors and the event.

‘The reality is that not only are Emirates Team New Zealand backed by multiple billionaires, but they continue to receive millions of dollars of NZ Government funding. In addition to the $5 million of taxpayer funds paid to the team by the NZ Government in late 2013, the team can draw down up to $15 million of further government funding under the Callaghan Innovation scheme.

‘Whilst I will always promote strong competition on the water, there is nothing wrong with competitors cooperating commercially off it, to ensure the event gets on a better commercial footing for the future.

‘We continue to remain hopeful that whilst Emirates Team New Zealand may have different views on many aspects, they will nevertheless embrace the America’s Cup with a positive attitude, for what promises to be a compelling, competitive and memorable event starting on May 26th in Bermuda.’

See our recent interview with Russell Coutts here:

 
 

 

 
 
 
 

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Read more at http://www.yachtingworld.com/americas-cup/russell-coutts-lashes-emirates-team-new-zealand-biased-reports-constant-bickering-105859#1mYAAAzVR0dCYqfu.99

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NZH reporting that Tuke is all signed up to compete in the VOR starting in October and that Burling is considering his options too. Will be awesome if one of them ends up on a winning boat. Too bad ETNZ weren't able to put an entry in.

http://nzh.tw/11890188

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15 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

Hmmm. Thread drift but...are all American conservatives tarred with the Trump brush? 

I think not.

all but the ones who are betting he'll go down and they don't want to burn too

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1 hour ago, Indio said:

Reflections...

Russell Coutts lashes out at Emirates Team New Zealand for biased reports and “constant bickering”

24shares
 

Russell Coutts has launched an attack at the New Zealand media and Emirates Team New Zealand for undermining the 'democratic' process of the new America's Cup format

A massive salvo has been fired by Russell Coutts at the New Zealand media and Emirates Team New Zealand. Coutts accuses the media of bias and says that Team New Zealand “are determined to forge a lonely path against the consensus of the rest of the America’s Cup community…”

“Do they have a vision at all?” he demands.

The expat Kiwi sailor, now CEO of the America’s Cup Events Authority, is one of the architects of the new framework agreement, setting out a future format for a two-year America’s Cup cycle. All the current teams have signed up to it with the exception of Team New Zealand.

Read our report about the framework agreement here.

This has put the team at odds with the others. Jimmy Spithill of Oracle Team USA was quick to weigh in with his comments, too, saying: “For some reason Kiwi media, along with Sail World and Scuttlebutt, continue to paint a non factual one-sided picture.”

“Like the rest of us, the key guys at ETNZ are paid well,” he adds. “I’m still amazed at the multiple millions the NZ government continue to pump into the team of over 95 people – much bigger than us. Now it makes sense why they are building such a massive base over here. Plus If you want the real facts, check out [Coutts’s statement] and then make a decision.”

Coutts put his comments in a lengthy Facebook post – all of it worth a read:

‘It appears the silly season has once again arrived, driven by a select few in the media who seem to find it difficult to separate fact from fiction, or research a balanced story, for the benefit of their readers.

In particular, the so called reporting from Dana Johannsen of the NZ Herald often lacks both accuracy and balance and it’s for this reason that many people usually dismiss her articles.

‘However this week Dana Johannsen wrote of “naked self interest” and “self serving rules changes” in an attempt to explain why ORACLE TEAM USA would be racing in the Louis Vuitton America’s Cup Qualifiers, so I feel compelled in this instance to respond and point out at least some of the follies in her story telling.

‘Dana seems to have forgotten that Emirates Team New Zealand actually wanted the same Qualifiers racing in New Zealand where ORACLE TEAM USA would have raced against all other teams, just as they are doing in Bermuda!

image: https://keyassets.timeincuk.net/inspirewp/live/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2017/03/m1788_crop169014_1024x576_proportional_14879747289AE5-533x400.jpg

m1788_crop169014_1024x576_proportional_1

15/2/17- Emirates Team New Zealand sail their America’s Cup Class race boat for the second day in Auckland New Zealand

‘In reality, history would in fact suggest that it’s very difficult to accurately predict who this joint racing might eventually benefit, and it certainly isn’t a new feature that the Defender could race or practice against a Challenger.

‘In 1987, Kiwi Magic trained against the Defender, Kookaburra, just prior to the America’s Cup finals. The Defender would go on to lose. However, in 1992 the Defender refused to sail against the Challengers and successfully defended the Cup. Then in 1995, the Defender adopted the same strategy and lost.

‘In 2000, as a New Zealand Defender, we were open to sailing against the Challengers but only the Nippon Challenge accepted our offer. In hindsight the Challengers may have benefitted more from racing us than we did from racing them, because the result ended 5-0 in favour of Team New Zealand.

‘Then, prior to the 2003 America’s Cup, Team New Zealand refused to sail against all Challengers, believing they were faster with their ‘hula’. Of course, history proved otherwise when Alinghi then won 5-0. So, prior to the 2007 final races, Emirates Team New Zealand did in fact race against Alinghi and the result was closer, although they still lost the final match 5-2.

‘It would therefore seem to be somewhat ridiculous, and perhaps bordering on arrogant, to assume that racing against the defending champion would somehow favour the Defender. The reality is that it might and it equally might not.

‘Now let’s explore the real reason why the new rules were written to mandate that all teams must race against each other, and if Dana had done even a small amount of research or made a few calls to other teams to actually fact check her story, she might have drawn a more reasonable and logical conclusion.

‘In past America’s Cups, we’ve seen both Challengers and the Defender build two boats capable of in house racing and for the most part train in isolation for years, resulting in an arms race that was expensive, inefficient and provided almost no commercial benefit to the team sponsors during those training periods.

‘In particular, the Defender would typically gear up with two fully fledged sailing teams, which they had to fund for 3-4 years.

This time, to avoid that arms race and to provide more commercial exposure and value for all teams and their sponsors, it was decided to involve all teams in racing.

‘After all, the current Defender is from the USA, which of course is a market of major promotional interest to almost all sponsors involved in the America’s Cup. So this year, all teams get to race against the US Defender in two televised races each, and benefit from the media coverage generated. In the past, only one of the top challengers would have raced against the Defender (in the final races) and the media return for almost all other teams, apart from the eventual Challenger, provided poor results. Sponsors received poor value and walked away from the Cup.

‘It also works for the Defender, in that the sponsors of ORACLE TEAM USA will also gain valuable additional exposure in countries like France, Japan, Sweden, the UK and New Zealand.

 

‘Most of the teams seem to want that, whether they are a Challenger or Defender in the future, and I am pretty sure that should New Zealand win this edition, its sponsors, including the New Zealand government, would likely wish for the same!

‘This new format has saved every team a lot of unnecessary cost and will provide a greater exposure for all.

‘All teams have built only one boat, even ORACLE TEAM USA, the team that Dana Johannsen says is acting out of self interest. All teams have fewer staff and therefore less cost as a result of the new rules. It is a win – win for everyone.

‘For example, ORACLE TEAM USA has reduced its staff by approximately a third, compared with AC 34. ETNZ, despite promoting themselves as an underfunded, small team, actually has one of the largest and best resourced outfits, currently with a listed staff of 96. Even this is still considerably less than the numbers they had in San Francisco.

And while Team New Zealand complains about the rules being decided by majority vote, I would suggest that such a democratic process is far better than the old system where the Defender and its elected Challenger of Record decided all the rules.

‘To be clear, New Zealand has actually voted in favor of the majority of the rules changes in this current campaign, although they are not shy in criticizing the same process that has served their self interest well, on the few occasions when the democratic vote has gone against them.

‘This America’s Cup also marks the very first time in over 166 years of history, where the regatta management is truly independent. America’s Cup Race Management (ACRM) is wholly-owned and equally funded by each of the teams. ACRM is responsible for everything that happens on the field of play, for all regatta officials, umpires, and race committee decisions.

‘The commercial arm of the America’s Cup, ACEA, is however controlled by the Defender who also has to underwrite the risk. Some of those event commercial rights were shared with other teams that hosted venues and yes, like all other teams, ETNZ was offered the chance to host an America’s Cup World Series event in New Zealand which they declined.

‘When I compare the current structure, with an independent ACRM, led by the respected Iain Murray, controlling all competitive aspects, to when the America’s Cup was last in New Zealand, it was a very different scenario. The race committee for the Match was from the defending club, the Royal New Zealand Yacht Squadron. That race committee decided when to race and when not to race whereas ACRM have a fully automated wind measuring system and the rules mandate racing must be when the wind is between 6 and 25 knots.

‘It is also worth noting that in many of the past America’s Cups, even the international jury was elected by the host club!

‘This new arrangement, where the teams have equal voting power and equally fund the race management operations, is a massive step forward for the America’s Cup in terms of good governance, even if the vote occasionally goes against the wishes of one team.

‘In that respect, it’s clear from Team New Zealand’s recent social media posts that they are determined to forge a lonely path against the consensus of the rest of the America’s Cup community, which includes the teams and all current event sponsors.

‘Five teams have laid out a framework for the future, which has been developed by consensus, widely supported by all current event sponsors, built from expert advice from all over the world, from some of the most respected, experienced individuals from business as well as sport. It aims to lay a solid commercial and sporting foundation for what happens next.

‘Continuity, consistency and clarity are important features to all stakeholders. Creating a commercially sustainable America’s Cup is a must for the benefit of the many, and the sport as a whole, not just the few.

‘While it’s certainly the right of Team New Zealand to have an alternative view, I have to ask, “What is it?”, because they certainly haven’t shared it with any of the current teams and despite being given every opportunity to do so on multiple occasions, they have refused to even engage with the process.

‘Do they favour a return to a format where most of the teams don’t return enough value to their sponsors? Do they prefer a format where there is only racing at the final venue? Do they have a vision at all? If so, and if they successfully win this Cup, how do they propose to make that work commercially for visiting teams, because it certainly didn’t work when the America’s Cup was previously hosted in New Zealand.

‘Surely this constant bickering isn’t the way forward, or at least that’s the view of five of the other current teams and investors and let’s face it, most of them have a relatively successful track record of running sustainable businesses!

‘While the plucky underdog story is a powerful marketing tool for Team New Zealand in its home market, we’d like to believe it could be deployed without pulling down the reputation of the other competitors and the event.

‘The reality is that not only are Emirates Team New Zealand backed by multiple billionaires, but they continue to receive millions of dollars of NZ Government funding. In addition to the $5 million of taxpayer funds paid to the team by the NZ Government in late 2013, the team can draw down up to $15 million of further government funding under the Callaghan Innovation scheme.

‘Whilst I will always promote strong competition on the water, there is nothing wrong with competitors cooperating commercially off it, to ensure the event gets on a better commercial footing for the future.

‘We continue to remain hopeful that whilst Emirates Team New Zealand may have different views on many aspects, they will nevertheless embrace the America’s Cup with a positive attitude, for what promises to be a compelling, competitive and memorable event starting on May 26th in Bermuda.’

See our recent interview with Russell Coutts here:

 
 

 

 

 

 
 

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There are 2 things here

1. dana is a hack, worst reporter in NZ media.  Her video feeds from bermuda were just embarrassing.  

2. RC give entz a chance,  they have had it for 5 minutes (2 weeks) and have been flat out with media.  Don't forget that OR were much much worse and the DOG challenge, well lets not even talk about that.  give them a chance

 

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1 hour ago, Indio said:

‘We continue to remain hopeful that whilst Emirates Team New Zealand may have different views on many aspects, they will nevertheless embrace the America’s Cup with a positive attitude, for what promises to be a compelling, competitive and memorable event starting on May 26th in Bermuda.’

oh ya...they're embracing the cup Wussel, no worries there. And with a very positive attitude from the pics and the parade I saw. Too bad for you, as you have said, that the event wasn't more competitive. Certainly was memorable.

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8 minutes ago, Qman said:

There are 2 things here

1. dana is a hack, worst reporter in NZ media.  Her video feeds from bermuda were just embarrassing.  

2. RC give entz a chance,  they have had it for 5 minutes (2 weeks) and have been flat out with media.  Don't forget that OR were much much worse and the DOG challenge, well lets not even talk about that.  give them a chance

 

March 28th cuz

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2 hours ago, Honu007 said:

NZH reporting that Tuke is all signed up to compete in the VOR starting in October and that Burling is considering his options too. Will be awesome if one of them ends up on a winning boat. Too bad ETNZ weren't able to put an entry in.

http://nzh.tw/11890188

@MR.CLEAN you know which team BT is sailing with?

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1 hour ago, Jazz Freak said:

@MR.CLEAN you know which team BT is sailing with?

He started following Mapfre on Insta two days ago.

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8 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

all but the ones who are betting he'll go down and they don't want to burn too

As always, the reality lies in qualitative vs quantitative. 

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42 minutes ago, Honu007 said:

I think some of the howling might've come from harmonics in the stays - in Bermuda they had black aerodynamic "deflectors" which someone mentioned stopped a lot of noise (you'll notice those black things aren't present in that "howly" sign-off video).

m1890_crop169004_1024x576_1494780222C299

Notably Artemis don't seem to have had the same attachments on their stays which could help to explain why their boat was the whiniest.

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45 minutes ago, KoW said:

I think some of the howling might've come from harmonics in the stays - in Bermuda they had black aerodynamic "deflectors" which someone mentioned stopped a lot of noise (you'll notice those black things aren't present in that "howly" sign-off video).

m1890_crop169004_1024x576_1494780222C299

Notably Artemis don't seem to have had the same attachments on their stays which could help to explain why their boat was the whiniest.

Ahh yes. I do remember KR was pointing that out during a race. Strange that Artemis chose not to do something similar if that is where their 'howl' was coming from. doesn't look too high tech. 

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Blair Tuke has confirmed his bid for sailing's triple crown, signing with Spanish team MAPFRE for the upcoming edition of the Volvo Ocean Race.

Just three weeks after lifting the America's Cup in Bermuda with Emirates Team New Zealand, Tuke will link up with MAPFRE in Sanxenxo next week to begin preparations the 2017-18 race, which gets under way in Alicante in October.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11890587

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9 hours ago, Swanno said:

He started following Mapfre on Insta two days ago.

The Stalker is strong with this one.... Or he needs to go sailing more :lol:

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30 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Blair Tuke has confirmed his bid for sailing's triple crown, signing with Spanish team MAPFRE for the upcoming edition of the Volvo Ocean Race.

Just three weeks after lifting the America's Cup in Bermuda with Emirates Team New Zealand, Tuke will link up with MAPFRE in Sanxenxo next week to begin preparations the 2017-18 race, which gets under way in Alicante in October.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11890587

Could this be a member of ETNZ increasing his monohull skills hmmmmmm

Just like to stir the conspiracy pot today.  

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13 minutes ago, mako23 said:

Could this be a member of ETNZ increasing his monohull skills hmmmmmm

Just like to stir the conspiracy pot today.  

And to add to the conspiracy, was reported that Burling is looking to join in on the action too, but likely on a different boat...

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45 minutes ago, mako23 said:

Could this be a member of ETNZ increasing his monohull skills hmmmmmm

Just like to stir the conspiracy pot today.  

Okay, going with that..

I wonder how big the offer is? Mark Turner (VOR promoter) may have offered a lot through MAPFRE somehow, Tuke is for sure eye candy now, a great story and personality.

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1 hour ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Okay, going with that..

I wonder how big the offer is? Mark Turner (VOR promoter) may have offered a lot through MAPFRE somehow, Tuke is for sure eye candy now, a great story and personality.

 

Obsessed with money much?

Hey rumour monger, have you double checked your facts? 2 independent sources? Is it slanderous? Is it diplomatic?

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4 hours ago, Honu007 said:

And to add to the conspiracy, was reported that Burling is looking to join in on the action too, but likely on a different boat...

If that's true !! then the stirring of the conspiracy pot goes into hyperdrive

 

Surely both these guys  have been resigned to ETNZ which means that if they are doing the Volvo Ocean Race, then they are doing it with permission. If I was GD Id want a damn good reason for them to put themselves at risk if there was no gain to ETNZ. I doubt they are doing it for the money.......Doesn't seem to be the money in VOR that use to be

 

Stir Stir Stir 

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4 hours ago, nav said:

 

Obsessed with money much?

Hey rumour monger, have you double checked your facts? 2 independent sources? Is it slanderous? Is it diplomatic?

Those without usually do.

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Ref: Wussels wee tissie fit.

What an immature we tissie he turned out to be. He is no longer in cuntrol and is unable to cope. He keeps getting lower and lower and lower in my esteem. Gad I say, gad. How much lower can the chappie go I ask myself. He is most unsporting.

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1 hour ago, Wolkenzug said:

If I were Grant Dalton I would simply say: kids go and have fun and do what I did in my youth. It's a great experience. 

Indeed, its not like a guy who did a bunch himself, had ETNZ do one in lead up to 2013 & mentioned linking up with VOR in post-AC win presser would suddenly say 'nope, inshore multis only for you!'

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6 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Okay, going with that..

I wonder how big the offer is? Mark Turner (VOR promoter) may have offered a lot through MAPFRE somehow, Tuke is for sure eye candy now, a great story and personality.

Probably got a decent contract, but I suppose he prioritized getting on team with a chance to win. His statements before the ac made it quite clear about his offshore aspirations  

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9 hours ago, Rushman said:

The Stalker is strong with this one.... Or he needs to go sailing more :lol:

The last time I sailed was with you! 

Big boat is for sale actually. Not sure how genuine he is at selling but it's on the market for less than 100k

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2 hours ago, hoom said:

Indeed, its not like a guy who did a bunch himself, had ETNZ do one in lead up to 2013 & mentioned linking up with VOR in post-AC win presser would suddenly say 'nope, inshore multis only for you!'

I think you make a fair point. its a long time between drinks in the  Americas cup game. We cant keep them on ice forever. Mind due didn't they freeze doctor evil

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2 hours ago, Barnyb said:

The finish line

Nice! Didn't realise ETNZ double foiled it across the line & man that Orifice double gybe was pretty ugly (not that crossing 2nd quick mattered)

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