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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.

21,134 posts in this topic

54 minutes ago, Jazz Freak said:

Sounded like artemis howl foils in that video, @weta27 any iidea which ones they had in that day? 

You know that's not the AC50, right?

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59 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

You know that's not the AC50, right?

:rolleyes: i'll go back to sleep now

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Reflections...

Russell Coutts lashes out at Emirates Team New Zealand for biased reports and “constant bickering”

24shares
 

Russell Coutts has launched an attack at the New Zealand media and Emirates Team New Zealand for undermining the 'democratic' process of the new America's Cup format

A massive salvo has been fired by Russell Coutts at the New Zealand media and Emirates Team New Zealand. Coutts accuses the media of bias and says that Team New Zealand “are determined to forge a lonely path against the consensus of the rest of the America’s Cup community…”

“Do they have a vision at all?” he demands.

The expat Kiwi sailor, now CEO of the America’s Cup Events Authority, is one of the architects of the new framework agreement, setting out a future format for a two-year America’s Cup cycle. All the current teams have signed up to it with the exception of Team New Zealand.

Read our report about the framework agreement here.

This has put the team at odds with the others. Jimmy Spithill of Oracle Team USA was quick to weigh in with his comments, too, saying: “For some reason Kiwi media, along with Sail World and Scuttlebutt, continue to paint a non factual one-sided picture.”

“Like the rest of us, the key guys at ETNZ are paid well,” he adds. “I’m still amazed at the multiple millions the NZ government continue to pump into the team of over 95 people – much bigger than us. Now it makes sense why they are building such a massive base over here. Plus If you want the real facts, check out [Coutts’s statement] and then make a decision.”

Coutts put his comments in a lengthy Facebook post – all of it worth a read:

‘It appears the silly season has once again arrived, driven by a select few in the media who seem to find it difficult to separate fact from fiction, or research a balanced story, for the benefit of their readers.

In particular, the so called reporting from Dana Johannsen of the NZ Herald often lacks both accuracy and balance and it’s for this reason that many people usually dismiss her articles.

‘However this week Dana Johannsen wrote of “naked self interest” and “self serving rules changes” in an attempt to explain why ORACLE TEAM USA would be racing in the Louis Vuitton America’s Cup Qualifiers, so I feel compelled in this instance to respond and point out at least some of the follies in her story telling.

‘Dana seems to have forgotten that Emirates Team New Zealand actually wanted the same Qualifiers racing in New Zealand where ORACLE TEAM USA would have raced against all other teams, just as they are doing in Bermuda!

image: https://keyassets.timeincuk.net/inspirewp/live/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2017/03/m1788_crop169014_1024x576_proportional_14879747289AE5-533x400.jpg

m1788_crop169014_1024x576_proportional_1

15/2/17- Emirates Team New Zealand sail their America’s Cup Class race boat for the second day in Auckland New Zealand

‘In reality, history would in fact suggest that it’s very difficult to accurately predict who this joint racing might eventually benefit, and it certainly isn’t a new feature that the Defender could race or practice against a Challenger.

‘In 1987, Kiwi Magic trained against the Defender, Kookaburra, just prior to the America’s Cup finals. The Defender would go on to lose. However, in 1992 the Defender refused to sail against the Challengers and successfully defended the Cup. Then in 1995, the Defender adopted the same strategy and lost.

‘In 2000, as a New Zealand Defender, we were open to sailing against the Challengers but only the Nippon Challenge accepted our offer. In hindsight the Challengers may have benefitted more from racing us than we did from racing them, because the result ended 5-0 in favour of Team New Zealand.

‘Then, prior to the 2003 America’s Cup, Team New Zealand refused to sail against all Challengers, believing they were faster with their ‘hula’. Of course, history proved otherwise when Alinghi then won 5-0. So, prior to the 2007 final races, Emirates Team New Zealand did in fact race against Alinghi and the result was closer, although they still lost the final match 5-2.

‘It would therefore seem to be somewhat ridiculous, and perhaps bordering on arrogant, to assume that racing against the defending champion would somehow favour the Defender. The reality is that it might and it equally might not.

‘Now let’s explore the real reason why the new rules were written to mandate that all teams must race against each other, and if Dana had done even a small amount of research or made a few calls to other teams to actually fact check her story, she might have drawn a more reasonable and logical conclusion.

‘In past America’s Cups, we’ve seen both Challengers and the Defender build two boats capable of in house racing and for the most part train in isolation for years, resulting in an arms race that was expensive, inefficient and provided almost no commercial benefit to the team sponsors during those training periods.

‘In particular, the Defender would typically gear up with two fully fledged sailing teams, which they had to fund for 3-4 years.

This time, to avoid that arms race and to provide more commercial exposure and value for all teams and their sponsors, it was decided to involve all teams in racing.

‘After all, the current Defender is from the USA, which of course is a market of major promotional interest to almost all sponsors involved in the America’s Cup. So this year, all teams get to race against the US Defender in two televised races each, and benefit from the media coverage generated. In the past, only one of the top challengers would have raced against the Defender (in the final races) and the media return for almost all other teams, apart from the eventual Challenger, provided poor results. Sponsors received poor value and walked away from the Cup.

‘It also works for the Defender, in that the sponsors of ORACLE TEAM USA will also gain valuable additional exposure in countries like France, Japan, Sweden, the UK and New Zealand.

 

‘Most of the teams seem to want that, whether they are a Challenger or Defender in the future, and I am pretty sure that should New Zealand win this edition, its sponsors, including the New Zealand government, would likely wish for the same!

‘This new format has saved every team a lot of unnecessary cost and will provide a greater exposure for all.

‘All teams have built only one boat, even ORACLE TEAM USA, the team that Dana Johannsen says is acting out of self interest. All teams have fewer staff and therefore less cost as a result of the new rules. It is a win – win for everyone.

‘For example, ORACLE TEAM USA has reduced its staff by approximately a third, compared with AC 34. ETNZ, despite promoting themselves as an underfunded, small team, actually has one of the largest and best resourced outfits, currently with a listed staff of 96. Even this is still considerably less than the numbers they had in San Francisco.

And while Team New Zealand complains about the rules being decided by majority vote, I would suggest that such a democratic process is far better than the old system where the Defender and its elected Challenger of Record decided all the rules.

‘To be clear, New Zealand has actually voted in favor of the majority of the rules changes in this current campaign, although they are not shy in criticizing the same process that has served their self interest well, on the few occasions when the democratic vote has gone against them.

‘This America’s Cup also marks the very first time in over 166 years of history, where the regatta management is truly independent. America’s Cup Race Management (ACRM) is wholly-owned and equally funded by each of the teams. ACRM is responsible for everything that happens on the field of play, for all regatta officials, umpires, and race committee decisions.

‘The commercial arm of the America’s Cup, ACEA, is however controlled by the Defender who also has to underwrite the risk. Some of those event commercial rights were shared with other teams that hosted venues and yes, like all other teams, ETNZ was offered the chance to host an America’s Cup World Series event in New Zealand which they declined.

‘When I compare the current structure, with an independent ACRM, led by the respected Iain Murray, controlling all competitive aspects, to when the America’s Cup was last in New Zealand, it was a very different scenario. The race committee for the Match was from the defending club, the Royal New Zealand Yacht Squadron. That race committee decided when to race and when not to race whereas ACRM have a fully automated wind measuring system and the rules mandate racing must be when the wind is between 6 and 25 knots.

‘It is also worth noting that in many of the past America’s Cups, even the international jury was elected by the host club!

‘This new arrangement, where the teams have equal voting power and equally fund the race management operations, is a massive step forward for the America’s Cup in terms of good governance, even if the vote occasionally goes against the wishes of one team.

‘In that respect, it’s clear from Team New Zealand’s recent social media posts that they are determined to forge a lonely path against the consensus of the rest of the America’s Cup community, which includes the teams and all current event sponsors.

‘Five teams have laid out a framework for the future, which has been developed by consensus, widely supported by all current event sponsors, built from expert advice from all over the world, from some of the most respected, experienced individuals from business as well as sport. It aims to lay a solid commercial and sporting foundation for what happens next.

‘Continuity, consistency and clarity are important features to all stakeholders. Creating a commercially sustainable America’s Cup is a must for the benefit of the many, and the sport as a whole, not just the few.

‘While it’s certainly the right of Team New Zealand to have an alternative view, I have to ask, “What is it?”, because they certainly haven’t shared it with any of the current teams and despite being given every opportunity to do so on multiple occasions, they have refused to even engage with the process.

‘Do they favour a return to a format where most of the teams don’t return enough value to their sponsors? Do they prefer a format where there is only racing at the final venue? Do they have a vision at all? If so, and if they successfully win this Cup, how do they propose to make that work commercially for visiting teams, because it certainly didn’t work when the America’s Cup was previously hosted in New Zealand.

‘Surely this constant bickering isn’t the way forward, or at least that’s the view of five of the other current teams and investors and let’s face it, most of them have a relatively successful track record of running sustainable businesses!

‘While the plucky underdog story is a powerful marketing tool for Team New Zealand in its home market, we’d like to believe it could be deployed without pulling down the reputation of the other competitors and the event.

‘The reality is that not only are Emirates Team New Zealand backed by multiple billionaires, but they continue to receive millions of dollars of NZ Government funding. In addition to the $5 million of taxpayer funds paid to the team by the NZ Government in late 2013, the team can draw down up to $15 million of further government funding under the Callaghan Innovation scheme.

‘Whilst I will always promote strong competition on the water, there is nothing wrong with competitors cooperating commercially off it, to ensure the event gets on a better commercial footing for the future.

‘We continue to remain hopeful that whilst Emirates Team New Zealand may have different views on many aspects, they will nevertheless embrace the America’s Cup with a positive attitude, for what promises to be a compelling, competitive and memorable event starting on May 26th in Bermuda.’

See our recent interview with Russell Coutts here:

 
 

 

 
 
 
 

Sponsored content


Read more at http://www.yachtingworld.com/americas-cup/russell-coutts-lashes-emirates-team-new-zealand-biased-reports-constant-bickering-105859#1mYAAAzVR0dCYqfu.99

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NZH reporting that Tuke is all signed up to compete in the VOR starting in October and that Burling is considering his options too. Will be awesome if one of them ends up on a winning boat. Too bad ETNZ weren't able to put an entry in.

http://nzh.tw/11890188

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15 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

Hmmm. Thread drift but...are all American conservatives tarred with the Trump brush? 

I think not.

all but the ones who are betting he'll go down and they don't want to burn too

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1 hour ago, Indio said:

Reflections...

Russell Coutts lashes out at Emirates Team New Zealand for biased reports and “constant bickering”

24shares
 

Russell Coutts has launched an attack at the New Zealand media and Emirates Team New Zealand for undermining the 'democratic' process of the new America's Cup format

A massive salvo has been fired by Russell Coutts at the New Zealand media and Emirates Team New Zealand. Coutts accuses the media of bias and says that Team New Zealand “are determined to forge a lonely path against the consensus of the rest of the America’s Cup community…”

“Do they have a vision at all?” he demands.

The expat Kiwi sailor, now CEO of the America’s Cup Events Authority, is one of the architects of the new framework agreement, setting out a future format for a two-year America’s Cup cycle. All the current teams have signed up to it with the exception of Team New Zealand.

Read our report about the framework agreement here.

This has put the team at odds with the others. Jimmy Spithill of Oracle Team USA was quick to weigh in with his comments, too, saying: “For some reason Kiwi media, along with Sail World and Scuttlebutt, continue to paint a non factual one-sided picture.”

“Like the rest of us, the key guys at ETNZ are paid well,” he adds. “I’m still amazed at the multiple millions the NZ government continue to pump into the team of over 95 people – much bigger than us. Now it makes sense why they are building such a massive base over here. Plus If you want the real facts, check out [Coutts’s statement] and then make a decision.”

Coutts put his comments in a lengthy Facebook post – all of it worth a read:

‘It appears the silly season has once again arrived, driven by a select few in the media who seem to find it difficult to separate fact from fiction, or research a balanced story, for the benefit of their readers.

In particular, the so called reporting from Dana Johannsen of the NZ Herald often lacks both accuracy and balance and it’s for this reason that many people usually dismiss her articles.

‘However this week Dana Johannsen wrote of “naked self interest” and “self serving rules changes” in an attempt to explain why ORACLE TEAM USA would be racing in the Louis Vuitton America’s Cup Qualifiers, so I feel compelled in this instance to respond and point out at least some of the follies in her story telling.

‘Dana seems to have forgotten that Emirates Team New Zealand actually wanted the same Qualifiers racing in New Zealand where ORACLE TEAM USA would have raced against all other teams, just as they are doing in Bermuda!

image: https://keyassets.timeincuk.net/inspirewp/live/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2017/03/m1788_crop169014_1024x576_proportional_14879747289AE5-533x400.jpg

m1788_crop169014_1024x576_proportional_1

15/2/17- Emirates Team New Zealand sail their America’s Cup Class race boat for the second day in Auckland New Zealand

‘In reality, history would in fact suggest that it’s very difficult to accurately predict who this joint racing might eventually benefit, and it certainly isn’t a new feature that the Defender could race or practice against a Challenger.

‘In 1987, Kiwi Magic trained against the Defender, Kookaburra, just prior to the America’s Cup finals. The Defender would go on to lose. However, in 1992 the Defender refused to sail against the Challengers and successfully defended the Cup. Then in 1995, the Defender adopted the same strategy and lost.

‘In 2000, as a New Zealand Defender, we were open to sailing against the Challengers but only the Nippon Challenge accepted our offer. In hindsight the Challengers may have benefitted more from racing us than we did from racing them, because the result ended 5-0 in favour of Team New Zealand.

‘Then, prior to the 2003 America’s Cup, Team New Zealand refused to sail against all Challengers, believing they were faster with their ‘hula’. Of course, history proved otherwise when Alinghi then won 5-0. So, prior to the 2007 final races, Emirates Team New Zealand did in fact race against Alinghi and the result was closer, although they still lost the final match 5-2.

‘It would therefore seem to be somewhat ridiculous, and perhaps bordering on arrogant, to assume that racing against the defending champion would somehow favour the Defender. The reality is that it might and it equally might not.

‘Now let’s explore the real reason why the new rules were written to mandate that all teams must race against each other, and if Dana had done even a small amount of research or made a few calls to other teams to actually fact check her story, she might have drawn a more reasonable and logical conclusion.

‘In past America’s Cups, we’ve seen both Challengers and the Defender build two boats capable of in house racing and for the most part train in isolation for years, resulting in an arms race that was expensive, inefficient and provided almost no commercial benefit to the team sponsors during those training periods.

‘In particular, the Defender would typically gear up with two fully fledged sailing teams, which they had to fund for 3-4 years.

This time, to avoid that arms race and to provide more commercial exposure and value for all teams and their sponsors, it was decided to involve all teams in racing.

‘After all, the current Defender is from the USA, which of course is a market of major promotional interest to almost all sponsors involved in the America’s Cup. So this year, all teams get to race against the US Defender in two televised races each, and benefit from the media coverage generated. In the past, only one of the top challengers would have raced against the Defender (in the final races) and the media return for almost all other teams, apart from the eventual Challenger, provided poor results. Sponsors received poor value and walked away from the Cup.

‘It also works for the Defender, in that the sponsors of ORACLE TEAM USA will also gain valuable additional exposure in countries like France, Japan, Sweden, the UK and New Zealand.

 

‘Most of the teams seem to want that, whether they are a Challenger or Defender in the future, and I am pretty sure that should New Zealand win this edition, its sponsors, including the New Zealand government, would likely wish for the same!

‘This new format has saved every team a lot of unnecessary cost and will provide a greater exposure for all.

‘All teams have built only one boat, even ORACLE TEAM USA, the team that Dana Johannsen says is acting out of self interest. All teams have fewer staff and therefore less cost as a result of the new rules. It is a win – win for everyone.

‘For example, ORACLE TEAM USA has reduced its staff by approximately a third, compared with AC 34. ETNZ, despite promoting themselves as an underfunded, small team, actually has one of the largest and best resourced outfits, currently with a listed staff of 96. Even this is still considerably less than the numbers they had in San Francisco.

And while Team New Zealand complains about the rules being decided by majority vote, I would suggest that such a democratic process is far better than the old system where the Defender and its elected Challenger of Record decided all the rules.

‘To be clear, New Zealand has actually voted in favor of the majority of the rules changes in this current campaign, although they are not shy in criticizing the same process that has served their self interest well, on the few occasions when the democratic vote has gone against them.

‘This America’s Cup also marks the very first time in over 166 years of history, where the regatta management is truly independent. America’s Cup Race Management (ACRM) is wholly-owned and equally funded by each of the teams. ACRM is responsible for everything that happens on the field of play, for all regatta officials, umpires, and race committee decisions.

‘The commercial arm of the America’s Cup, ACEA, is however controlled by the Defender who also has to underwrite the risk. Some of those event commercial rights were shared with other teams that hosted venues and yes, like all other teams, ETNZ was offered the chance to host an America’s Cup World Series event in New Zealand which they declined.

‘When I compare the current structure, with an independent ACRM, led by the respected Iain Murray, controlling all competitive aspects, to when the America’s Cup was last in New Zealand, it was a very different scenario. The race committee for the Match was from the defending club, the Royal New Zealand Yacht Squadron. That race committee decided when to race and when not to race whereas ACRM have a fully automated wind measuring system and the rules mandate racing must be when the wind is between 6 and 25 knots.

‘It is also worth noting that in many of the past America’s Cups, even the international jury was elected by the host club!

‘This new arrangement, where the teams have equal voting power and equally fund the race management operations, is a massive step forward for the America’s Cup in terms of good governance, even if the vote occasionally goes against the wishes of one team.

‘In that respect, it’s clear from Team New Zealand’s recent social media posts that they are determined to forge a lonely path against the consensus of the rest of the America’s Cup community, which includes the teams and all current event sponsors.

‘Five teams have laid out a framework for the future, which has been developed by consensus, widely supported by all current event sponsors, built from expert advice from all over the world, from some of the most respected, experienced individuals from business as well as sport. It aims to lay a solid commercial and sporting foundation for what happens next.

‘Continuity, consistency and clarity are important features to all stakeholders. Creating a commercially sustainable America’s Cup is a must for the benefit of the many, and the sport as a whole, not just the few.

‘While it’s certainly the right of Team New Zealand to have an alternative view, I have to ask, “What is it?”, because they certainly haven’t shared it with any of the current teams and despite being given every opportunity to do so on multiple occasions, they have refused to even engage with the process.

‘Do they favour a return to a format where most of the teams don’t return enough value to their sponsors? Do they prefer a format where there is only racing at the final venue? Do they have a vision at all? If so, and if they successfully win this Cup, how do they propose to make that work commercially for visiting teams, because it certainly didn’t work when the America’s Cup was previously hosted in New Zealand.

‘Surely this constant bickering isn’t the way forward, or at least that’s the view of five of the other current teams and investors and let’s face it, most of them have a relatively successful track record of running sustainable businesses!

‘While the plucky underdog story is a powerful marketing tool for Team New Zealand in its home market, we’d like to believe it could be deployed without pulling down the reputation of the other competitors and the event.

‘The reality is that not only are Emirates Team New Zealand backed by multiple billionaires, but they continue to receive millions of dollars of NZ Government funding. In addition to the $5 million of taxpayer funds paid to the team by the NZ Government in late 2013, the team can draw down up to $15 million of further government funding under the Callaghan Innovation scheme.

‘Whilst I will always promote strong competition on the water, there is nothing wrong with competitors cooperating commercially off it, to ensure the event gets on a better commercial footing for the future.

‘We continue to remain hopeful that whilst Emirates Team New Zealand may have different views on many aspects, they will nevertheless embrace the America’s Cup with a positive attitude, for what promises to be a compelling, competitive and memorable event starting on May 26th in Bermuda.’

See our recent interview with Russell Coutts here:

 
 

 

 

 

 
 

Sponsored content


Read more at http://www.yachtingworld.com/americas-cup/russell-coutts-lashes-emirates-team-new-zealand-biased-reports-constant-bickering-105859#1mYAAAzVR0dCYqfu.99

There are 2 things here

1. dana is a hack, worst reporter in NZ media.  Her video feeds from bermuda were just embarrassing.  

2. RC give entz a chance,  they have had it for 5 minutes (2 weeks) and have been flat out with media.  Don't forget that OR were much much worse and the DOG challenge, well lets not even talk about that.  give them a chance

 

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1 hour ago, Indio said:

‘We continue to remain hopeful that whilst Emirates Team New Zealand may have different views on many aspects, they will nevertheless embrace the America’s Cup with a positive attitude, for what promises to be a compelling, competitive and memorable event starting on May 26th in Bermuda.’

oh ya...they're embracing the cup Wussel, no worries there. And with a very positive attitude from the pics and the parade I saw. Too bad for you, as you have said, that the event wasn't more competitive. Certainly was memorable.

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8 minutes ago, Qman said:

There are 2 things here

1. dana is a hack, worst reporter in NZ media.  Her video feeds from bermuda were just embarrassing.  

2. RC give entz a chance,  they have had it for 5 minutes (2 weeks) and have been flat out with media.  Don't forget that OR were much much worse and the DOG challenge, well lets not even talk about that.  give them a chance

 

March 28th cuz

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2 hours ago, Honu007 said:

NZH reporting that Tuke is all signed up to compete in the VOR starting in October and that Burling is considering his options too. Will be awesome if one of them ends up on a winning boat. Too bad ETNZ weren't able to put an entry in.

http://nzh.tw/11890188

@MR.CLEAN you know which team BT is sailing with?

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1 hour ago, Jazz Freak said:

@MR.CLEAN you know which team BT is sailing with?

He started following Mapfre on Insta two days ago.

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8 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

all but the ones who are betting he'll go down and they don't want to burn too

As always, the reality lies in qualitative vs quantitative. 

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42 minutes ago, Honu007 said:

I think some of the howling might've come from harmonics in the stays - in Bermuda they had black aerodynamic "deflectors" which someone mentioned stopped a lot of noise (you'll notice those black things aren't present in that "howly" sign-off video).

m1890_crop169004_1024x576_1494780222C299

Notably Artemis don't seem to have had the same attachments on their stays which could help to explain why their boat was the whiniest.

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45 minutes ago, KoW said:

I think some of the howling might've come from harmonics in the stays - in Bermuda they had black aerodynamic "deflectors" which someone mentioned stopped a lot of noise (you'll notice those black things aren't present in that "howly" sign-off video).

m1890_crop169004_1024x576_1494780222C299

Notably Artemis don't seem to have had the same attachments on their stays which could help to explain why their boat was the whiniest.

Ahh yes. I do remember KR was pointing that out during a race. Strange that Artemis chose not to do something similar if that is where their 'howl' was coming from. doesn't look too high tech. 

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Blair Tuke has confirmed his bid for sailing's triple crown, signing with Spanish team MAPFRE for the upcoming edition of the Volvo Ocean Race.

Just three weeks after lifting the America's Cup in Bermuda with Emirates Team New Zealand, Tuke will link up with MAPFRE in Sanxenxo next week to begin preparations the 2017-18 race, which gets under way in Alicante in October.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11890587

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9 hours ago, Swanno said:

He started following Mapfre on Insta two days ago.

The Stalker is strong with this one.... Or he needs to go sailing more :lol:

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30 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Blair Tuke has confirmed his bid for sailing's triple crown, signing with Spanish team MAPFRE for the upcoming edition of the Volvo Ocean Race.

Just three weeks after lifting the America's Cup in Bermuda with Emirates Team New Zealand, Tuke will link up with MAPFRE in Sanxenxo next week to begin preparations the 2017-18 race, which gets under way in Alicante in October.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11890587

Could this be a member of ETNZ increasing his monohull skills hmmmmmm

Just like to stir the conspiracy pot today.  

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13 minutes ago, mako23 said:

Could this be a member of ETNZ increasing his monohull skills hmmmmmm

Just like to stir the conspiracy pot today.  

And to add to the conspiracy, was reported that Burling is looking to join in on the action too, but likely on a different boat...

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45 minutes ago, mako23 said:

Could this be a member of ETNZ increasing his monohull skills hmmmmmm

Just like to stir the conspiracy pot today.  

Okay, going with that..

I wonder how big the offer is? Mark Turner (VOR promoter) may have offered a lot through MAPFRE somehow, Tuke is for sure eye candy now, a great story and personality.

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14 hours ago, barfy said:

March 28th cuz

opps yes, but dana is still a hack

 

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1 hour ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Okay, going with that..

I wonder how big the offer is? Mark Turner (VOR promoter) may have offered a lot through MAPFRE somehow, Tuke is for sure eye candy now, a great story and personality.

 

Obsessed with money much?

Hey rumour monger, have you double checked your facts? 2 independent sources? Is it slanderous? Is it diplomatic?

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4 hours ago, Honu007 said:

And to add to the conspiracy, was reported that Burling is looking to join in on the action too, but likely on a different boat...

If that's true !! then the stirring of the conspiracy pot goes into hyperdrive

 

Surely both these guys  have been resigned to ETNZ which means that if they are doing the Volvo Ocean Race, then they are doing it with permission. If I was GD Id want a damn good reason for them to put themselves at risk if there was no gain to ETNZ. I doubt they are doing it for the money.......Doesn't seem to be the money in VOR that use to be

 

Stir Stir Stir 

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If I were Grant Dalton I would simply say: kids go and have fun and do what I did in my youth. It's a great experience. 

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4 hours ago, nav said:

 

Obsessed with money much?

Hey rumour monger, have you double checked your facts? 2 independent sources? Is it slanderous? Is it diplomatic?

Those without usually do.

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Ref: Wussels wee tissie fit.

What an immature we tissie he turned out to be. He is no longer in cuntrol and is unable to cope. He keeps getting lower and lower and lower in my esteem. Gad I say, gad. How much lower can the chappie go I ask myself. He is most unsporting.

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1 hour ago, Wolkenzug said:

If I were Grant Dalton I would simply say: kids go and have fun and do what I did in my youth. It's a great experience. 

Indeed, its not like a guy who did a bunch himself, had ETNZ do one in lead up to 2013 & mentioned linking up with VOR in post-AC win presser would suddenly say 'nope, inshore multis only for you!'

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6 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Okay, going with that..

I wonder how big the offer is? Mark Turner (VOR promoter) may have offered a lot through MAPFRE somehow, Tuke is for sure eye candy now, a great story and personality.

Probably got a decent contract, but I suppose he prioritized getting on team with a chance to win. His statements before the ac made it quite clear about his offshore aspirations  

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9 hours ago, Rushman said:

The Stalker is strong with this one.... Or he needs to go sailing more :lol:

The last time I sailed was with you! 

Big boat is for sale actually. Not sure how genuine he is at selling but it's on the market for less than 100k

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2 hours ago, hoom said:

Indeed, its not like a guy who did a bunch himself, had ETNZ do one in lead up to 2013 & mentioned linking up with VOR in post-AC win presser would suddenly say 'nope, inshore multis only for you!'

I think you make a fair point. its a long time between drinks in the  Americas cup game. We cant keep them on ice forever. Mind due didn't they freeze doctor evil

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2 hours ago, Barnyb said:

The finish line

Nice! Didn't realise ETNZ double foiled it across the line & man that Orifice double gybe was pretty ugly (not that crossing 2nd quick mattered)

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On 7/12/2017 at 9:14 PM, minimumfuss said:

Words to live by in today's ODT

 

 

 

20170713_130650_resized.jpg

Anyone have a link to the photo of burling doing the wave?

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1 hour ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Anyone have a link to the photo of burling doing the wave?

The 'wave' is a fun story but..... 

Burling and Tuke were asked about it by Veitch, I watched the almost 30-minute video, and they, mostly Burling, explained that the signal is actually one he makes that is directed to the umpires after starts. I forget the exact reason, sounded like an acknowledgement some kind of Clear to Start, he may also have referred to his Olympics experience.

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1 hour ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Anyone have a link to the photo of burling doing the wave?

i've got a rough capture here, i think i've seen a better shot from another cam.

 

bye.jpg

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1 minute ago, ~Stingray~ said:

The 'wave' is a fun story but..... 

Burling and Tuke were asked about it by Veitch, I watched the almost 30-minute video, and they, mostly Burling, explained that the signal is actually one he makes that is directed to the umpires after starts. I forget the exact reason, sounded like an acknowledgement some kind for the Clear Start, he may also have referred to his Olympics experience.

glad your having fun. Thought we'd get a break from your Fun

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11 hours ago, Qman said:

opps yes, but dana is still a hack

 

no argument here :)

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5 hours ago, Swanno said:

The last time I sailed was with you! 

Big boat is for sale actually. Not sure how genuine he is at selling but it's on the market for less than 100k

Wow... You do need to go for a sail!

That is a lot of boat for less than 100K

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15 hours ago, hoom said:

Nice! Didn't realise ETNZ double foiled it across the line & man that Orifice double gybe was pretty ugly (not that crossing 2nd quick mattered)

OR shood hav protested them for havving both foylz down   ;-)

az for dubbel jyb, aktewally, my sents woz that OR reeched over to be abel to offer congrats ?

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16 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Anyone have a link to the photo of burling doing the wave?

 

Hook Race 8.jpg

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1 hour ago, snaerk said:

az for dubbel jyb, aktewally, my sents woz that OR reeched over to be abel to offer congrats ?

They did offer congrats as they passed but their track was miles above the mark, had to double gybe to get across.

tOPrT7v.png

 

Regarding the 'wave', its just standard dinghy racing thing 'up up, you gotta stay clear, up' while waving the hand up :huh:

Sounds impressively cool/cunty (depending on viewpoint) as a wave bye story though :wub:

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On 7/13/2017 at 3:11 AM, Honu007 said:

NZH reporting that Tuke is all signed up to compete in the VOR starting in October and that Burling is considering his options too. Will be awesome if one of them ends up on a winning boat. Too bad ETNZ weren't able to put an entry in.

http://nzh.tw/11890188

 

1 hour ago, Ulairi said:

 

Hook Race 8.jpg

That picture sums it up! The orifice looks like a dissfunctional bunch rednecks the Kiwis like an orchestra under the P direction.

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7 hours ago, Ulairi said:

 

Hook Race 8.jpg

Great shot....thanks..

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How you guys all coping with the lack of racing? Any news on when the protocol will come out?

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Guess they will be working on it right now ... party's over, confetti has been swept up, hangovers fading ...

I'm just hoping that when the containers arrive, they unpack Aotearoa and take her out for a phat around the harbour!

Definitely withdrawal symptoms at my place.

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On 7/15/2017 at 1:53 AM, barfy said:

i've got a rough capture here, i think i've seen a better shot from another cam.

 

bye.jpg

In one of the videos, Burling can be heard saying "Keep it up boys, keep it up!" while waving...

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3 hours ago, weta27 said:

Guess they will be working on it right now ... party's over, confetti has been swept up, hangovers fading ...

I'm just hoping that when the containers arrive, they unpack Aotearoa and take her out for a phat around the harbour!

Definitely withdrawal symptoms at my place.

I hear a rumour that KZ-1 has been moved from where it was

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13 hours ago, NZL5 said:

How you guys all coping with the lack of racing? Any news on when the protocol will come out?

Finished a full rewatch of 2013 match.

Man those things were beasts, the racing actually very close including most of the ETNZ wins at least up to the top mark.

Still blows my mind they were able to pull off foiling gybes on such big boats & how much Orifice were able to improve their boat handling while ETNZ stood still or possibly went backwards.

In early races ETNZ were pulling 28kt upwind quite often vs Orifice 26kt but by the end it was Orifice doing 31 & ETNZ languishing at 26 a lot of the time.

ETNZ came so close to getting the vital overtake several times but so heartbreakingly couldn't pull it off, made multiple crucial tactical & handling blunders.

If only that light air race had been shortened to the bottom mark or no limit after last mark... :(

 

Actually a really large number of deja-vu moments vs this AC :ph34r:

But with some important bits reversed eg PB cleaned out Jimmy in pre-start this time.

 

Currently watching the 1988 mismatch.

 

Gonna do a full rewatch of this Challengers/AC next.

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In the process of uploading as much as I can to YouTube. Gotta laugh at this gem ... how many times does PB say "For ourselves ..." in this 2min clip after seeing AR off in the challenger series.

 

 

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18 hours ago, NZL5 said:

How you guys all coping with the lack of racing? Any news on when the protocol will come out?

I'm not coping well. It was a blast and now I can only wait and wonder. News on this side is hard to find so good on everyone here for keeping us informed. 

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10 hours ago, weta27 said:

Guess they will be working on it right now ... party's over, confetti has been swept up, hangovers fading ...

I'm just hoping that when the containers arrive, they unpack Aotearoa and take her out for a phat around the harbour!

Definitely withdrawal symptoms at my place.

I second that .....

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20 hours ago, weta27 said:

Guess they will be working on it right now ... party's over, confetti has been swept up, hangovers fading ...

I'm just hoping that when the containers arrive, they unpack Aotearoa and take her out for a phat around the harbour!

Definitely withdrawal symptoms at my place.

Is this what drugs are like, watching the replays of AC35 racing is not giving me the same kick as it did when I watched them live.

For ourselves, did ETNZ throw the ball too far out, so that we are now wondering if we will ever get that kick again....?

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From ETNZ facebook page

 

 

36th America's Cup Announcement:
The Royal New Zealand Yacht Squadron and Circolo della Vela Sicilia as the Challenger of Record, together with their respective representative teams Emirates Team New Zealand and Luna Rossa Challenge, are pleased to announce that the Protocol establishing the parameters for the 36th America's Cup will be released in September 2017.

The proposed dates for the event will be further detailed in the Protocol but the Defender and the Challenger of... Record are considering the possibility of the 36th America's Cup Match and the preceding Challenger Selection Series being conducted in Auckland in early 2021 during the New Zealand summer.

In recognition of the fundamental condition of the Deed of Gift that the Cup be preserved as a perpetual Challenge Cup for friendly competition between foreign countries, the Protocol will contain a "constructed in country" requirement for competing yachts and a nationality requirement for competing crew members.

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Team New Zealand reveal first details of 36th America's Cup

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11892559

Team New Zealand have indicated they will strengthen the nationality rules for the America's Cup, confirming today the protocol will contain a "constructed in country" rule as well as a nationality requirement for the competing crews.

But potential challengers will have to wait a couple more months to learn the full details of the next event, with Team New Zealand and challenger of record Luna Rossa announcing today the protocol for the event will be revealed in September.

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Photo of the day:

 

Emirates Team New Zealand Fly to Auckland with the America's Cup ETNZ/Carlo Borlenghi

Large_AC35_17cb_51619_0523261.jpg

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4 hours ago, weta27 said:

Team New Zealand reveal first details of 36th America's Cup

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11892559

Team New Zealand have indicated they will strengthen the nationality rules for the America's Cup, confirming today the protocol will contain a "constructed in country" rule as well as a nationality requirement for the competing crews.

But potential challengers will have to wait a couple more months to learn the full details of the next event, with Team New Zealand and challenger of record Luna Rossa announcing today the protocol for the event will be revealed in September.

Its sort of the details you give when you don't really have any details at all.  

should have read TNZ reveal that they will reveal the details at a later date. 

 

 

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6 hours ago, Dead air said:

From ETNZ facebook page

 

 

36th America's Cup Announcement:
The Royal New Zealand Yacht Squadron and Circolo della Vela Sicilia as the Challenger of Record, together with their respective representative teams Emirates Team New Zealand and Luna Rossa Challenge, are pleased to announce that the Protocol establishing the parameters for the 36th America's Cup will be released in September 2017.

The proposed dates for the event will be further detailed in the Protocol but the Defender and the Challenger of... Record are considering the possibility of the 36th America's Cup Match and the preceding Challenger Selection Series being conducted in Auckland in early 2021 during the New Zealand summer.

In recognition of the fundamental condition of the Deed of Gift that the Cup be preserved as a perpetual Challenge Cup for friendly competition between foreign countries, the Protocol will contain a "constructed in country" requirement for competing yachts and a nationality requirement for competing crew members.

:D Been signed for months according to the trolls.....

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13 hours ago, nav said:

:D Been signed for months according to the trolls.....

Same trolls that were adamant "the Arab team" would host the cup in Dubai? ;-)

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14 hours ago, nav said:

:D Been signed for months according to the trolls.....

Your hero GD is who admitted it was already signed, said it very explicitly - on video even.

In another article KS said it was mostly written (get this, you'll love this too) in 2013 for in case ETNZ won in SF. He said they basically just 'dusted it off.'

Do you honestly think that Protocol was not a great deal more detailed, and not a great deal older, than the Framework agreement? If so, you're even more delusional than met the eye until now ;)

Again, I actually have no problem with it since it was always only intent. The venom spat about the Framework agreement? Hypocracy, considering.

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Ok you have convinced me, your track record in AC35 was so impressive - that's a pretty tinfoil hat you have there too by the way

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3 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Your hero GD is who admitted it was already signed, said it very explicitly - on video even.

In another article KS said it was mostly written (get this, you'll love this too) in 2013 for in case ETNZ won in SF. He said they basically just 'dusted it off.'

Do you honestly think that Protocol was not a great deal more detailed, and not a great deal older, than the Framework agreement? If so, you're even more nuts than met the eye until now ;)

Bummer...the evil axis now has a four year head start on the new boat design....all without a single word leaking out...but the spinbot has his finger on the pulse....

good thing the London Agreement is in place...oh wait...the tight five didn't win the cup....

karma's a bitch...

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17 minutes ago, nav said:

Ok you have convinced me, your track record in AC35 was so impressive - that's a pretty tinfoil hat you have there too by the way

I am referring to what was said by GD and said by KS.

The Protocol was pre-written, pre-agreed, with a future intent just like the Framework that received all the scorn over that exact 'shall not consider' BS argument reason.

So: Who's looking like the fools now? Lmao!

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You are going to have a heart attack, because of some GD hyperbole - relax Spinbot - it's not about you

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13 minutes ago, nav said:

You are going to have a heart attack, because of some GD hyperbole - relax Spinbot - it's not about you

Am plenty relaxed, and yes the statements about the pre-written Protocol are all about the tight LR and ETNZ relationship (shall we name it LoRENZo?) said by GD and KS and not me, mr obvious...

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On 7/18/2017 at 4:13 PM, weta27 said:

Guess they will be working on it right now ... party's over, confetti has been swept up, hangovers fading ...

I'm just hoping that when the containers arrive, they unpack Aotearoa and take her out for a phat around the harbour!

Definitely withdrawal symptoms at my place.

Here too. Still waking up a 5:00 fucking am. Former habits die hard.

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3 hours ago, nav said:

You are going to have a heart attack, because of some GD hyperbole - relax Spinbot - it's not about you

Agreed., but I wouldn't call it GD hyperbole.You would be pretty naive if you think that the decisions on the key points haven't already been made and that they do not have a protocol. What does seem reasonable is to give them a little time to tidy it up and for the class rule to be written so it doesn't have too many loopholes. September seems OK to me. I do wish they had said a little more other than location, approximate time of year, CiC and nationality, because I am sure they knew more. Type and size of boat would have been very helpful to a lot of people because it is never too early to start preparations and that will be the biggest factor in deciding who is in or out, but it is no huge issue waiting another 2 months.

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3 minutes ago, A Class Sailor said:

Agreed., but I wouldn't call it GD hyperbole.You would be pretty naive if you think that the decisions on the key points haven't already been made and that they do not have a protocol. What does seem reasonable is to give them a little time to tidy it up and for the class rule to be written so it doesn't have too many loopholes. September seems OK to me. I do wish they had said a little more other than location, approximate time of year, CiC and nationality, because I am sure they knew more. Type and size of boat would have been very helpful to a lot of people because it is never too early to start preparations and that will be the biggest factor in deciding who is in or out, but it is no huge issue waiting another 2 months.

I'm guessing the boat hasn't been mentioned because it hasn't been finalised and given that changing the dimensions of the boat after the fact was such a big issue last time they would rather be certain than release incorrect information that might then upset someone when it was changed at a later date.  Although a definitive "it's a mono/cat/tri" statement would have been nice.

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4 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Am plenty relaxed, and yes the statements about the pre-written Protocol are all about the tight LR and ETNZ relationship (shall we name it LoRENZo?) said by GD and KS and not me, mr obvious...

In the art of shit stirring I think LoRENZo is good 

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Hers my two cents worth as a Kiwi that is semi one eyed

Does ETNZ and LR have a protocol agreement

yes and so what the other signed the London agreement making any of there argument moot about a preassigned agreement between LR and ETNZ

Is there anything that the London group can do

Apart from not turning up..No

Could the Americas Cup Exist without London Group

Yes....sad if they didn't come but a few challengers would appear

Can ETNZ and LR set the class rules

Yes and end of story

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19 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

I am referring to what was said by GD and said by KS.

The Protocol was pre-written, pre-agreed, with a future intent just like the Framework that received all the scorn over that exact 'shall not consider' BS argument reason.

So: Who's looking like the fools now? Lmao!

If I remember correctly, you were worried that RNZYS/ETNZ had no plan for the future when they opposed the London Agreement. Looks like this worry was unfounded, and I recon, you are relieved that ETNZ is not such a headless chicken as you assumed back then.
At that time RNZYS/ETNZ's plan was as worthess as the LA. It's just now that it has an impact, and I hope it gets refined, adjusted and published soon - if only to end all this speculation. Haha.

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20 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

I am referring to what was said by GD and said by KS.

The Protocol was pre-written, pre-agreed,

link please?

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3 hours ago, Rennmaus said:

If I remember correctly, you were worried that RNZYS/ETNZ had no plan for the future when they opposed the London Agreement. Looks like this worry was unfounded, and I recon, you are relieved that ETNZ is not such a headless chicken as you assumed back then.
At that time RNZYS/ETNZ's plan was as worthess as the LA. It's just now that it has an impact, and I hope it gets refined, adjusted and published soon - if only to end all this speculation. Haha.

Yep! Exactly

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2 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

link please?

Can't be bothered but if you want to try find GD saying it, it is in a video from when ETNZ landed with the Cup in Auckland from Dubai, while still at the airport.

I did support the forward-looking LA and since realizing Lorenzo had one too I also support them for having already had a vision. As Rennie noted above, neither had any effect until someone won anyway, at which point they could effectively 'consider' (in Deed terms) the only-now-legit Challenge in hand.

It is inconceivable to me that anyone would have taken the LA to court, or that LA signors could take this alternative to court. All parties, as it turns out, had some form of preagreements.

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2 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

It is inconceivable to me that anyone would have taken the LA to court, or that LA signors could take this alternative to court. All parties, as it turns out, had some form of preagreements.

I dont think any one will be going to court iver this. The syndicate that might have a grizzle would be a syndicate that did not race in the last AC ....ie like Alinghi

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3 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

It is inconceivable to me that anyone would have taken the LA to court, or that LA signors could take this alternative to court. All parties, as it turns out, had some form of preagreements.

It'a the AC, court is part of the playing field :D  In this case, the lawyers would have argued that GGYC as the defending yacht club overstepped by signing the Framework Agreement that locked them into the structure of the next challenge (thus more than "contemplating" it).  Who knows if the plaintiff would have succeeded in NY, but I don't doubt that there would have been a few suitors lined up (cough, cough .... Ernie).

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10 hours ago, Rennmaus said:

If I remember correctly, you were worried that RNZYS/ETNZ had no plan for the future when they opposed the London Agreement. Looks like this worry was unfounded, and I recon, you are relieved that ETNZ is not such a headless chicken as you assumed back then.
At that time RNZYS/ETNZ's plan was as worthess as the LA. It's just now that it has an impact, and I hope it gets refined, adjusted and published soon - if only to end all this speculation. Haha.

As always, clearly thought through and eloquently expressed. Thanks, Rennie.

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42 minutes ago, barfy said:

any coverage of the moth worlds lined up? Come on Clean, grab SG and a few tinnies and get amongst it!

Yeah, Mr Clean. You did a pretty decent job in Sorrento. How about it?

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We have a good kid writing some reports and a little from Bora dropping on the podcast tomorrow. 

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On 18/07/2017 at 6:12 PM, mako23 said:

I hear a rumour that KZ-1 has been moved from where it was

Any truth to this? Bit of a white elephant but you will never see anything like it.

I know the rig was removed as replacement rigging was going to be to expensive. Maybe the boat is starting to break down? 

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3 minutes ago, monosailor said:

Any truth to this? Bit of a white elephant but you will never see anything like it.

I know the rig was removed as replacement rigging was going to be to expensive. Maybe the boat is starting to break down? 

Monosailor a thousand apologies to you.....the post was ment to be a joke to wind some one else up.  In hindsite not even a funny joke.  I expected the bait to be taken up over the rumour ETNZ were going to monohulls.  I regret this post and feeling tad a prat.  Sorry ......

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On 7/21/2017 at 9:17 AM, ~Stingray~ said:

Yep! Exactly

Lol what he's saying is you were concerned ETNZ didn't have a plan for the future if they won, now you're concerned because they did have one? Which is it? 

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48 minutes ago, sclarke said:

Lol what he's she's saying is you were concerned ETNZ didn't have a plan for the future if they won, now you're concerned because they did have one? Which is it? 

Fixed it for you ;)

It's good that ETNZ had a plan, but I think that they did not work on it while engaged in AC35. If it was as old (from 2013) as rumored, it must have been assuring for ETNZ to have it already "in the drawer", just in case. Saves workload.

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2 hours ago, sclarke said:

Lol what he's saying is you were concerned ETNZ didn't have a plan for the future if they won, now you're concerned because they did have one? Which is it? 

It's both.

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I suspect that Dalts worked out the basics with Luna Rossa while they were still sailing in SF .. Now that they have the AC others in ETNZ prefer something different so further negotiation is required.

It's likely that a mono was preferred originally but the success of the AC50s has caused them to reconsider the boat.

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