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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

21,348 posts in this topic

5 hours ago, MischiefBDA said:

There must be loads of challengers, loads of billionaires/syndicates who are willing to spend/raise circa $100m to build a 60ft plus plus foiling monohull and race in the least broadcast friendly location on the planet.

:unsure:

There won't be a lot of Challengers going over there in 2021. The crap NZ Media is reporting that up to 10 Teams could be in AUCK is "Wishful Thinking" IMO. Depending if two or one boat is allowed to be built you will need north of $ 150m to compete. If that's the case even a potential Challenger like Land Rover BAR is in doubt. Where is Ben going to get all the money?

Right now I'd say we have the following Teams:

ETNZ (Defender)

LR (CoR)

LRBAR (Challenger)

Australian (Challenger)

USA (but that's only happening if the Yacht Club who challenges can convince someone with big bucks like the DeVos Family or Ricketts Family to sponsor the US Team otherwise they are out too)

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6 hours ago, MischiefBDA said:

There must be loads of challengers, loads of billionaires/syndicates who are willing to spend/raise circa $100m to build a 60ft plus plus foiling monohull and race in the least broadcast friendly location on the planet.

:unsure:

Probably the loads of billionaires that struggled for a place in the Bermuda AC, yeah right

 

2 hours ago, WetHog said:

I just read the news leaked by Patrizio the Poodle and I am pleased, if true.  Back to mono-hulls but foiling mono's at that.  Oh the possibilities.  Still a lot of questions though.  Primarily, specifics about the boat rule, but also how this news will affect Challengers from AC35 continuing and how many boats will be allowed to be built.  I would think ETNZ would have to allow 2 considering the unknowns surrounding foiling mono's.  

Anyway, now my interest is up.  I also consider this a mark in the good column in regards to ETNZ as Defender, IMO.  I hope they keep the good marks coming.

WetHog  :ph34r:

Agree, and I hope so too

 

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15 hours ago, rh2600 said:

You've been around more than long enough to know "poodles" refers to any team that signed up the framework agreement, and in doing so made themselves open to criticism from one-eyed Kiwis.

Doesn't mean there aren't some great people in those teams, but the teams themselves in AC35?...hmmm

I had a good laugh at the suggestion that GTF - a team skippered by LE's good old mate who he simply told to turn up just to bring up the numbers and knew they had zero chance of being competitive - was anything but a dog of the French variety.

Again, a great guy, but he wasn't there to win the thing, he was there to comply with someone else's wishes and have a bit of a $ail at the same time...

Whatever happened to that framework agreement anyway. Haven't heard it mentioned lately

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26 minutes ago, Barnyb said:

Whatever happened to that framework agreement anyway. Haven't heard it mentioned lately

Maybe because nobody who signed it won?

P$B has exposed that LR and ETNZ had their own 'Framework Agreement' - hidden instead of transparent, and dating to much farther back. Do any of the same arguments apply, now that ETNZ won?

http://sailinganarchy.com/2017/01/26/the-five-horsemen-of-the-a-cup-alypse/

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35 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Maybe because nobody who signed it won?

P$B has exposed that LR and ETNZ had their own 'Framework Agreement' - hidden instead of transparent, and dating to much farther back. Do any of the same arguments apply, now that ETNZ won?

http://sailinganarchy.com/2017/01/26/the-five-horsemen-of-the-a-cup-alypse/

Funny how the gang of five framework was such a great idea but the gang of two is such a villainess contract..we haven't heard much from you lately about the wsl50 circuit you were pimping, maybe because it didn't work when it had AC in the title..

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44 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Maybe because nobody who signed it won?

P$B has exposed that LR and ETNZ had their own 'Framework Agreement' - hidden instead of transparent, and dating to much farther back. Do any of the same arguments apply, now that ETNZ won?

http://sailinganarchy.com/2017/01/26/the-five-horsemen-of-the-a-cup-alypse/

If the GD does not chose P$B's boat, P$B can make their pre-match signed agreement public, and TNZ is in breach.

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8 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

If the GD does not chose P$B's boat, P$B can make their pre-match signed agreement public, and TNZ is in breach.

Who is P$B's? I haven't figured that out. Could you explain to me?:)

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Just now, ro! said:

Funny how the gang of five framework was such a great idea but the gang of two is such a villainess contract..we haven't heard much from you lately about the wsl50 circuit you were pimping, maybe because it didn't work when it had AC in the title..

I supported the Framework Agreement for the very same reasons that a lot of people expressed. Even Dalton has said that fast-turnaround continuity is important to teams.

I also argued that the FA was legal, since it was a promise about what ~would be~ signed to, in a coming Challenge, should one of them win. And much as I don't like that there's been this other, hidden, agenda, I see nothing DoG-illegal about it even if it was 'signed' in some fashion a long time ago; and very much doubt anyone will take it to court to find out.

Many, many disagreed the legality of the FA, Ehman included in a NYT article, but none of those same voices are being heard arguing the same 'shall not be considered' line in this case; and I'm asking them 'Why?' What is the difference?

As to a 'world series' it sounds like events will happen in Italy; which may suggest elsewhere too if they intend to ship boats around, under whatever new name the series gets labeled as, under a new Event Authority by whatever it too gets named.

Again, a lot of what RC said here made sense, if you care about a commercially viable AC:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11868979

 

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3 minutes ago, Alinghi4ever said:

Who is P$B's? I haven't figured that out. Could you explain to me?:)

Patrizio$Billionaire

PeteBurling

 

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16 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Patrizio$Billionaire

PeteBurling

 

That makes sense Stingers. On your post above don't forget the costs.

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7 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

No, he was there to train, get an AC50, improve it, and go for the win on the same boat next AC.

*Exactly*! You've just written the most succinct definition of a poodle - my long winded definition would be - may have planned on being an attack dog next cycle, but for AC35 and was focussed on complying with Oracle to keeping the status quo for future attempts rather than challenge them every inch and try to win the thing this time...

We are in total agreement! So then... what was your original problem? ;-)

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5 hours ago, Alinghi4ever said:

There won't be a lot of Challengers going over there in 2021. The crap NZ Media is reporting that up to 10 Teams could be in AUCK is "Wishful Thinking" IMO. Depending if two or one boat is allowed to be built you will need north of $ 150m to compete. If that's the case even a potential Challenger like Land Rover BAR is in doubt. Where is Ben going to get all the money?

Right now I'd say we have the following Teams:

ETNZ (Defender)

LR (CoR)

LRBAR (Challenger)

Australian (Challenger)

USA (but that's only happening if the Yacht Club who challenges can convince someone with big bucks like the DeVos Family or Ricketts Family to sponsor the US Team otherwise they are out too)

Didn't you promise to fuck off and never come back?

I mean I've got you on block like most people here, but can't you even stick to your most basic promises? At least have the dignity to create a new sock and let everyone give you the benefit of the doubt...

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11 hours ago, MischiefBDA said:

There must be loads of challengers, loads of billionaires/syndicates who are willing to spend/raise circa $100m to build a 60ft plus plus foiling monohull and race in the least broadcast friendly location on the planet.

:unsure:

Precisely what is a 'broadcast friendly location' - do you mean time zone?

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No, TF, as all the 5 were willing the same, none are poodles, excepted TJ perhaps, and I am not sure.

A poodle has a  financial master, and in this case TNZ may be P$B's one.

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1 hour ago, rh2600 said:

Precisely what is a 'broadcast friendly location' - do you mean time zone?

Basically a location that allows for global audiences to view the event at as close or near to prime time as possible.
Aus & NZ are generally "broadcast unfriendly" for most major markets 

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34 minutes ago, MischiefBDA said:

Basically a location that allows for global audiences to view the event at as close or near to prime time as possible.
Aus & NZ are generally "broadcast unfriendly" for most major markets 

BDA may get a part of this coming cycle after all, it certainly proved to be a good venue.

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2 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

BDA may get a part of this coming cycle after all, it certainly proved to be a good venue.

Yea...no one went there to watch, and you and a couple of hundred others watched it on tv...and it only cost Burmuda $77M, win-win for your hero Russ...

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Given that NZ has a disproportionate number of AC fans Bermuda was a decidely broadcast unfriendly destination!

I think we were one of the few countries where the broadcast rights were actually worth enough to sell...

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47 minutes ago, Boybland said:

Given that NZ has a disproportionate number of AC fans Bermuda was a decidely broadcast unfriendly destination!

I think we were one of the few countries where the broadcast rights were actually worth enough to sell...

This isn't so much of being an friendly or unfriendly destination. It's about using your brain and head as a Team and these crappies of LR haven't done that. All what they did the entire last month is firing cheap shots at potential Challengers and some of them are very personal like MS at BA.

And about NZ Cup in Auck '00 and '03: Yes, it was incredibly unfriendly. Eurosport got a highlight package back in the Day but no Live Coverage at all and if Jochen Schuemann wouldn't have been on the Alinghi Team Boat I wouldn't have seen anything.

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9 hours ago, MischiefBDA said:

Basically a location that allows for global audiences to view the event at as close or near to prime time as possible.
Aus & NZ are generally "broadcast unfriendly" for most major markets 

So why wasn't your 'global audience' watching AC35? Oh....that's right, practically nobody was (except for NZL). 

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14 hours ago, Barnyb said:

Whatever happened to that framework agreement anyway. Haven't heard it mentioned lately

Ripped up and flushed down the dunny. I believe the cheaters called a meeting of the poodles signatories to try some group reach-around in the mistaken belief their opinions meant shit over AC36. They tried the group-tug threat they won't challenge if the boat changed - and Dalts told them to turn the lights off when they fucked off.

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2 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

So why wasn't your 'global audience' watching AC35? Oh....that's right, practically nobody was (except for NZL). 

You get jack shit selling broadcast rights in NZ. In fact rights get lumped in with Aus and its bugger all for both. If you're a domestic NZ producer you might get something from TVNZ but then they'll do it themselves and try and offload it in some  TV market fest like MIPCOM or MIFED.  Total worldwide AC tv rights won't get much more than 350,000 after sub dist and commissions, tops. Usually you'd  horse trade another programme series or pay them to run it. Look at Uk TV in the last AC, It was dropped when BAR dropped out so bang goes those revenues.  So now any team trying to raise broadcast coin from US, UK, France and Japan (the major territories), is stuffed basically and its going to cost an arm and a leg to produce it what with all those higher graphics, high tech shooting costs and post. 

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The audience from NZ and Italy will be enormous (and vocal) and will be many times more than the total viewership from AC35. Then there is the UK audience if Ben turns up, and those from Straya, hopefully some swedes,.....

Also, some events will be in Italy so will be friendly for those in Euroland and build support for the regatta in NZ

I would also expect some participation from China

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From this report - 

The 5 matches played by the Italian national team during the UEFA European Championships 2016 produced a total audience of 247,564 spectators and an audience of 17.6 million viewers per game

If we go way out on a limb and estimate that sailing will garner 10% the market share of football in Italy, we get 1.76 million viewers per event. Toss in 25% of the New Zealand population and you get another million. That's hardly enormous.

Then when you realize that you need a vast array of very, very expensive kit on the boats, on the shore, in the helicopters and in the trailer to generate the content, far, far more kit than is required to produce a football match, the proposition starts to really fall apart. 10x the costs, 10% of the audience - that's 100x more dollars per eyeball. Try to sell that proposition to a network ...

 

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1 hour ago, chesirecat said:

You get jack shit selling broadcast rights in NZ. 

You get jack shit selling broadcast rights for sailing period.  I can see this edition being almost exclusively online, with a distribution partnership with Youtube or someone similar that allows people to watch wherever they are in the world without having to search for illegal streams (cough ... cough ... Bermuda) or battle blackout periods.  

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4 hours ago, chesirecat said:

 Look at Uk TV in the last AC, It was dropped when BAR dropped out

Huh? BT Sport continue to broadcast after BAR was eliminated.

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16 hours ago, MischiefBDA said:

Aus & NZ are generally "broadcast unfriendly" for most major markets 

Yeah. But ENTZ won so there you go. I can find many things to complain about but live broadcasts in Kiwi daytime won't be one of them.

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5 hours ago, Barnyb said:

The audience from NZ and Italy will be enormous (and vocal) and will be many times more than the total viewership from AC35. Then there is the UK audience if Ben turns up, and those from Straya, hopefully some swedes,.....

Also, some events will be in Italy so will be friendly for those in Euroland and build support for the regatta in NZ

I would also expect some participation from China

No, it won't. No one from Italy is going to watch sailing in the middle of the Night. People need to work.

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3 hours ago, Alinghi4ever said:

No, it won't. No one from Italy is going to watch sailing in the middle of the Night. People need to work.

Real fans of the sport will, pretend ones like you obviously won't, and we'd all be the better for it...

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6 hours ago, Alinghi4ever said:

No, it won't. No one from Italy is going to watch sailing in the middle of the Night. People need to work.

 

If the past (both San Diego and Auckland) is any guide, totally wrong

 

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Haha even though Alinghi4ever said he was quitting the Americas Cup when the Kiwi's won. He still comes back and posts his drivel. 

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6 hours ago, Alinghi4ever said:

No, it won't. No one from Italy is going to watch sailing in the middle of the Night. People need to work.

They don't have DVR technology in Italy?

WetHog  :ph34r:

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7 minutes ago, WetHog said:

They don't have DVR technology in Italy?

WetHog  :ph34r:

Drivel Vector Rerouting?

Appears to be working well - with the drivel from Germany being redirected directly to SA without contaminating any Italian forums or Circolo della Vela Sicilia for that matter ;-)

We should get one too

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25 minutes ago, WetHog said:

They don't have DVR technology in Italy?

WetHog  :ph34r:

You need to go home hiding because your sailing talent-free Country called United States will never win the Cup again for the next 20-30 years.

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Oh, please go fuck off to somewhere else.  We may not have fielded the most US-national-heavy team in a while but don't fucking patronize us with this bullshit when you come from a nation that has won ZERO FUCKING AMERICA'S CUPS EVER

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Hats off to the TNZ pr machine.

Side stepped responsability for probably the most controversial part of the up coming protocol. Got it out early so we can get the wind and piss out of the way. And have set them selves up with their public as the defenders of sporting virtue again.

All by letting the awd fella have his moment in front of his home crowd.

Fair fucks

Soooo who else is going to get in the middle of this good cop bad cop show down?

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14 hours ago, Alinghi4ever said:

No, it won't. No one from Italy is going to watch sailing in the middle of the Night. People need to work.

Ahahahahahahah you've never been to Italy during a past AC then. People were really crazy, even people that knew nothing about sailing, and they did watch it live in the middle of the night! Expecially in 1992,  Sandiego, with the Moro di Venezia and iin 2000 in Auckland, when the Italian boats were quite competitive.

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18 hours ago, Alinghi4ever said:

You need to go home hiding because your sailing talent-free Country called United States will never win the Cup again for the next 20-30 years.

Not sure I understand why you responded the way you did.  I asked if Italians had DVR, or Digital Video Recorder, so they could record overnight broadcasts of an AC in New Zealand and watch it when they wake up.  

But since you are trying to insult me for some reason, have you heard of a boat called Comanche, its kind of a big deal in the sailing world lately.  Owned by an American, built in America and crewed by American's (mostly).  Something tells me a serious American AC challenge would do just fine.

On the other hand, how about a German AC challenge though?  Is UITG still kicking around somewhere waiting to capitalize on their outstanding showing in AC32 (+39 finished ahead UITG for fucks sake)?  Ready to whip out SUI-91 (what ever happened to her?) and GER-101 and slay the Kiwi's?  Didn't think so.  :lol:

2ikxnqr.jpg

WetHog  :ph34r:

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On 9/13/2017 at 0:41 PM, Tornado-Cat said:

If you consider Artemis, BAR and GTF poodles, it tells it all.

And you did not answer, who is the "overall" ?

 

More info can be found at www.whininglosers.com

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17 hours ago, ezyb said:

Oh, please go fuck off to somewhere else.  We may not have fielded the most US-national-heavy team in a while but don't fucking patronize us with this bullshit when you come from a nation that has won ZERO FUCKING AMERICA'S CUPS EVER

True, do you think it might have something to do with their national obsession with shit eating pornos?

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3 hours ago, Gutterblack said:

True, do you think it might have something to do with their national obsession with shit eating pornos?

2 girls 1 cup? Sweet! :D

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5 hours ago, Gutterblack said:

More info can be found at www.whininglosers.com

And DVR'ed to www.callsomeonewhogivesafuck.org

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On ‎15‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 4:47 AM, Alinghi4ever said:

No, it won't. No one from Italy is going to watch sailing in the middle of the Night. People need to work.

Ahhh schultzee thought you were never going to darken our doors again with your overly tight lederhosen inspired drivel and succinct wit, before we begin again in earnest though one thing you must tell me...... what is this shit obsessed porno thing that is mentioned and what did you do pre VCR ? and as for getting up in the middle of the night........ allblacks fans have been doing it for decades so no real hardship however as we see neither a rugby team of any note nor for that matter an A/C challenge of any fashion either past or present I guess it will remain as  "JA VEE ARRE STILL VAITING ON DERRR  CHURMANS",  for the foreseeable future...

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59 minutes ago, Barnyb said:

A Cupside chat with Commodore Steve Mair and PJ Montgomery

I 'm impressed by membership numbers at RNZYS. Great to hear the Club is growing.

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On 9/15/2017 at 2:18 AM, dogwatch said:

Huh? BT Sport continue to broadcast after BAR was eliminated.

Yep sorry really meant it dropped out of the headlines and by association revenues/audience numbers/exposure. During my film production days for a budget of $US4.5 mill, I'd be lucky to get $250,000 presale from AUS and NZ. MIght be able to raise $3 mill overall from world presales and deficit filled by other means. TV returns generally are the pits compared to film, sailing TV worse and AC in monohulls/classic match racing close to the You Pay US Network. Looking at the last AC the production budget could be in the $US4/7 million range and It would be likely they would have had to buy TV slots or at the very least underwrite certain costs for US network so maybe an added few million there. I know one film did the film equivalent and underwrote an entire US cinema chain. Fortunately, it did business and the financier kept his mansions. Somehow ETNZ/their TV bedfellow need to find a production budget of this level and would be looking to raise 70% of the budget by other means - equity perhaps through sailing/sponsor partners, but a tough sell for cash-strapped challengers. Billionaires don't like spending money, they might give the illusion but that's just show - MdN a typical example, spending very little for his return and influence. TV production, especially with all the whizbangs required and expected is not that cheap in NZ - from when I last looked at the numbers and decided to stay home. 

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Thanks that is interesting. Are you able to estimate how much ACEA got for selling UK rights to BT Sport?

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4 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

Thanks that is interesting. Are you able to estimate how much ACEA got for selling UK rights to BT Sport?

I am pretty certain they didn't get a penny.They gave them the UK rights in exchange for guaranteed and agreed airtime. IIRC, BT Sports took the ACEA feed which they got for free and used their own production team in Bermuda to produce the programmes.

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