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My Guess is they learnt how good the simulator was in AC34.

They started to rely more and more on it in AC35.

But this new sail set up has not history and they had a couple of goes before the rule we saw at least one.

And now the are wanting to test the sail simulations.  They had an amazing wing control system in AC35 IMHO 35% of their clear VMG advance.

To keep all that secret and have a test run in public??? this test boat might be a ruse to give us something to watch while they do the real testing of the soft wing and control system in a hidden lake somewhere, Lake Huroko? one road in, no spies there?

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9 minutes ago, barfy said:

Sorry tc ., but #2 and #3 are mutually exclusive, but I bet you are correct with those two guesses.

And my guess is they are testing something somewhere in the water validating their computer model(s).

I agree with you but I don't think 2 and 3 are mutually exclusive, they can very well test some solutions before and after launch of B1 knowing it will be used for B 2.

As for the crew, the more time foiling on the water the better.

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11 minutes ago, Kiwing said:

To keep all that secret and have a test run in public??? this test boat might be a ruse to give us something to watch while they do the real testing of the soft wing and control system in a hidden lake somewhere, Lake Huroko? one road in, no spies there?

They could also show misleading systems... :)

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10 hours ago, Forourselves said:

Dalton has already said they won't launch in March.

Quite so.  It has been mentioned elsewhere too.  The recent Duncan Johnstone stuff.co.nz interview with  Kevin Shoebridge, linked here just four days ago, talked about a mid-year launch.

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3 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

We don't know much but we know they won't tell the real picture as usual, so we may have different possibilities:

- they already have a test boat

- the new test boat will be sailed before B1

- the new test boat will be sailed after B1

My guess is that all these option will probably coexist. The hoax was that they would only rely only on a virtual simulator.

T-C, we know you like to cover all the bases but really, c'mon mate!

Most of us on the ground here in the Shaky Isles know and accept that while Dalton, Shoebridge and Co are often coy ad not forthcoming with information they don't resort to outright lies.

Your line "The hoax was that they would only rely only on a virtual simulator" is a bit of a stretch.  What hoax? They may have believed at some point that they didn't need a test mule.  There is some evidence of that in the Shoebridge interview which states it will come after Boat #1.  We don't know what or when their work led to the conclusion that they need a mule.

As to your other points:

- they already have a test boat  -   No

- the new test boat will be sailed before B1 - No

- the new test boat will be sailed after B1 - Yes

 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, KiwiJoker said:

T-C, we know you like to cover all the bases but really, c'mon mate!

Most of us on the ground here in the Shaky Isles know and accept that while Dalton, Shoebridge and Co are often coy ad not forthcoming with information they don't resort to outright lies.

Your line "The hoax was that they would only rely only on a virtual simulator" is a bit of a stretch.  What hoax? They may have believed at some point that they didn't need a test mule.  There is some evidence of that in the Shoebridge interview which states it will come after Boat #1.  We don't know what or when their work led to the conclusion that they need a mule.

As to your other points:

- they already have a test boat  -   No

- the new test boat will be sailed before B1 - No

- the new test boat will be sailed after B1 - Yes

Correct, you are surely more in the know than I am. I did not say they lied,  I just never completely trust any AC team.

Anyway, thanks to you answers, we can pinpoint more, here are the possibilities I see in the guess game :

- B1 is too advanced to test some new systems

- they thought of something else and it would modify B1 too much for the rule

- they want to compare two concepts before B2 (my favourite)

- it would cost less to try it on a smaller boat

- some of these answers at the same time

 

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15 hours ago, Herfy said:

It is really a matter of timing, NZ sounds like they will have their first boat in the water way before the other teams (March).  

What leads you to those conclusions? AFAIK there is no actual information around on when any team is likely to splash or how much delay the acknowledged OD component issues will cause.

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5 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

- they want to compare two concepts before B2 (my favourite)

I do like that idea too..... It would be great to see two wildly different boats coming out of the shed to prove a concept.

However and please correct me if I am wrong (I know you all will), but the design task here is not about developing a whole new concept of boat as we already have that in the AC75. Hull design is going to be critical, as to how quickly you can transfer from displacement/planning(?) mode to full foiling; surely this is something which can be done in a simulator and you dont 'have' to build a boat to prove.

My guess.... is that the small test boat will simply be used to develop the soft sail/componants. Whilst the AC75 is out and about showboating around the world (cant wait!), the 40ft test boat can have 20 different sails made and re-cut and new rigs etc without any delay. New foil tips can be built and trialed... new systems can be dreamed up; how are they going to hoist and lower a huge Code0 whilst foiling upwind at 35 knots?!

Lots of benefits

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7 hours ago, Purple Headed Warrior said:

I do like that idea too..... It would be great to see two wildly different boats coming out of the shed to prove a concept.

However and please correct me if I am wrong (I know you all will), but the design task here is not about developing a whole new concept of boat as we already have that in the AC75. Hull design is going to be critical, as to how quickly you can transfer from displacement/planning(?) mode to full foiling; surely this is something which can be done in a simulator and you dont 'have' to build a boat to prove.

My guess.... is that the small test boat will simply be used to develop the soft sail/componants. Whilst the AC75 is out and about showboating around the world (cant wait!), the 40ft test boat can have 20 different sails made and re-cut and new rigs etc without any delay. New foil tips can be built and trialed... new systems can be dreamed up; how are they going to hoist and lower a huge Code0 whilst foiling upwind at 35 knots?!

Lots of benefits

You mean just like AM and UK teams, right?

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On 1/8/2019 at 5:00 AM, Purple Headed Warrior said:

I do like that idea too..... It would be great to see two wildly different boats coming out of the shed to prove a concept.

However and please correct me if I am wrong (I know you all will), but the design task here is not about developing a whole new concept of boat as we already have that in the AC75. Hull design is going to be critical, as to how quickly you can transfer from displacement/planning(?) mode to full foiling; surely this is something which can be done in a simulator and you dont 'have' to build a boat to prove.

My guess.... is that the small test boat will simply be used to develop the soft sail/componants. Whilst the AC75 is out and about showboating around the world (cant wait!), the 40ft test boat can have 20 different sails made and re-cut and new rigs etc without any delay. New foil tips can be built and trialed... new systems can be dreamed up; how are they going to hoist and lower a huge Code0 whilst foiling upwind at 35 knots?!

Lots of benefits

They cannot change the concept of boats now, however I think that they are going to test much more than the sail. Again at this AC the difference will not be made by the sail but by the foils and the control systems.

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14 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

They cannot change the concept of boats now, however I think that they are going to test much more than the sail. Again at this AC the difference will not be made by the sail but by the foils and the control systems.

Just like AC34.

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3 hours ago, Purple Headed Warrior said:

Exactly... just with a slightly different approach to timing.

And in hindsight, maybe they should have just gone ahead and built the "test" boat as soon as possible to give them more time to test their ideas and gain experience on the water.  

It looks like the major teams have all consolidated on an approach to get ready for the cup.  NZ most likely still has a major lead on the design, they just want to catch up with on the water testing to validate their designs and gain experience.

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30 minutes ago, Herfy said:

And in hindsight, maybe they should have just gone ahead and built the "test" boat as soon as possible to give them more time to test their ideas and gain experience on the water.  

It looks like the major teams have all consolidated on an approach to get ready for the cup.  NZ most likely still has a major lead on the design, they just want to catch up with on the water testing to validate their designs and gain experience.

TNZ has lead in the design, lead in simulation, delay in the test boat, delay on training on the test boat.

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2 hours ago, Herfy said:

And in hindsight, maybe they should have just gone ahead and built the "test" boat as soon as possible to give them more time to test their ideas and gain experience on the water.  

It looks like the major teams have all consolidated on an approach to get ready for the cup.  NZ most likely still has a major lead on the design, they just want to catch up with on the water testing to validate their designs and gain experience.

Well put... time is going to tell and I am really excited about what we are going to see on the water in the coming months.

I did mention before, but how much of NZ time is being spent on design on the supplied components? Is this a burden to them in terms of production of their own kit?

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Actually I think ETNZ has been learning from the other test boats and that is why they are building a test boat now something has come up from the other test boats that is interesting and ETNZ want to ride an option on the edge of the sims ability?

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40 minutes ago, Kiwing said:

Actually I think ETNZ has been learning from the other test boats and that is why they are building a test boat now something has come up from the other test boats that is interesting and ETNZ want to ride an option on the edge of the sims ability?

That could be true, it is difficult to anticipate and simulate all of the issues with a completely new design.

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whisper has it they will have experimental foils with 4 knot (hull speed relative to the water) lift off !  Go ETNZ

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2 hours ago, Kiwing said:

Actually I think ETNZ has been learning from the other test boats and that is why they are building a test boat now something has come up from the other test boats that is interesting and ETNZ want to ride an option on the edge of the sims ability?

^^ Perhaps but why do they build one ? :)

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1 hour ago, Tornado-Cat said:

^^ Perhaps but why do they build one ? :)

Because their simulator does not cover this area so well/reliably? perhaps out of left field? not thought of by ETNZ???  Got to cover the bikes you know!!

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9 minutes ago, Kiwing said:

Because their simulator does not cover this area so well/reliably? perhaps out of left field? not thought of by ETNZ???  Got to cover the bikes you know!!

If their simulator doesn't cover something all they have to do is modify the simulator .. they did after all make it themselves.

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6 minutes ago, Terry Hollis said:

If their simulator doesn't cover something all they have to do is modify the simulator .. they did after all make it themselves.

Ah but you need data to test simulator results. so if it is too far away from their data, then they need data to check the simulator.

I also think TB2 is justified on the grounds of use while B1 is in transit.  To test things that B1 throws up?

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5 hours ago, Kiwing said:

Because their simulator does not cover this area so well/reliably?

Actually their simulator probably produces data for those conditions, a better way to put it is to say that they don't have correlation with on water test/data and the confidence in the data is dropping too low to be acceptable.

This is usually how simulator/models are performed. Some tests are made and the model is validated for a given enveloppe (which usually don't extend much further than the test points). Once you need simulation points outside this enveloppe, you either accept the risk that the predicted behavior outside the enveloppe might be different to accepted or you seek to extend it so that it includes the next simulation points hence extra tests on water. There is almost always better confidence in interpolation compare to extrapolation.

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10 hours ago, Lakrass said:

Actually their simulator probably produces data for those conditions, a better way to put it is to say that they don't have correlation with on water test/data and the confidence in the data is dropping too low to be acceptable.

This is usually how simulator/models are performed. Some tests are made and the model is validated for a given enveloppe (which usually don't extend much further than the test points). Once you need simulation points outside this enveloppe, you either accept the risk that the predicted behavior outside the enveloppe might be different to accepted or you seek to extend it so that it includes the next simulation points hence extra tests on water. There is almost always better confidence in interpolation compare to extrapolation.

Correct!  You are in dreamland when you try to extrapolate data into an area where the models haven't been correlated.  You can think outside the box, but you need to test your model to expand the box in order for the simulator to be accurate.

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Ok we agree on simulator limitations.

Is boat 1 better for providing data to move the simulator data along the path they are travelling?

Is a test boat better, when radically changed to test wildly different paths, better to "cover" the other teams paths?

This is why I believe a later test boat is better than an early one.  It shows confidence in the path they are on, and it "keeps and eye on" the other paths?

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41 minutes ago, Herfy said:

Correct!  You are in dreamland when you try to extrapolate data into an area where the models haven't been correlated.  You can think outside the box, but you need to test your model to expand the box in order for the simulator to be accurate.

But foil dev could be well tested with a rig on a rib ripping a lake somewhere, no need for an entire scaled down boat.

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12 hours ago, barfy said:

But foil dev could be well tested with a rig on a rib ripping a lake somewhere, no need for an entire scaled down boat.

Couldn't agree with you more. Personally I think TB 1 is mostly about rig/sail control and development. My guess is all teams will end up with very similar foil and hull designs, the rig and sail controls is where we'll see the biggest variations with resulting variations in VMG. It's also the area where the least raw data to develop simulator programmes off is available.... How many yachts, planes, kites etc have you come across that travel at 40+ knots with a vertically orientated twin skin sail? None I can think of, so any simulator data produced is really lacking validation, so to develop sucessfully you're going to need quality raw data. Solution.....Once you've developed as far as you can with the simulator, build a test boat and get some raw data to confirm you're on the right track, then throw the ball a bit further.

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20 hours ago, barfy said:

But foil dev could be well tested with a rig on a rib ripping a lake somewhere, no need for an entire scaled down boat.

Seems like it might be difficult to simulate the side forces and rotational inertia with a RIB.

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On 1/11/2019 at 6:44 AM, nroose said:

Seems like it might be difficult to simulate the side forces and rotational inertia with a RIB.

Would it be that much harder than, say using a tunnel? 

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1 hour ago, barfy said:

"The Royal New Zealand Coastguard is set to benefit from the Lottery Fund for Community Benefit related to the 2021 America’s Cup to the tune of $9.8 million.

"The fund will see a fleet of 26 boats, 24 Rayglass RIBs (rigid-inflatable boats) and two Salthouse powerboats, being built for the on-water operations running the 36th America’s Cup presented by PRADA.

"At the conclusion of the America’s Cup Match in March 2021 the fleet will be distributed to Coastguard units throughout the country benefitting the safety of boaties around New Zealand’s vast coastline, major rivers and lakes."

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6 hours ago, barfy said:

Interesting between 0.11 and 0.18 second in the vid. I swear she says AP up within 12 knots and Blair looks pissed off at 0.17 with the camera.

They are looking at tacking angles on the screen and boundaries.

Good share cheers

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On 1/14/2019 at 10:25 PM, barfy said:

Would it be that much harder than, say using a tunnel? 

Yup

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So this from the Stars & Stripes thread 

https://www.sailingworld.com/holland-in-house?src=SOC&dom=fb&fbclid=IwAR18CDE05I5-lO6kcSQGZdaP06zijuiQ2bjgfR_vQgaW_cRv815AFzdA7_k

Says the ETNZ design package is "Identical" to the ETNZ boat one.  Can that really be the case...no changes to ETNZ boat onr design  since whenever they put the design package together for the buyers? I guess this would let the design package boats be more test boats for ETNZ????

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Long rambling Skype interview with TE and RG. Covers a lot of stuff for all AC teams.

Also appears Stingray is still alive :D

EDIT: Shit, link won't embed - you'll have to follow path to FB.

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So, I have never been involved in the carbon manufacturing of a race boat, but is it not a worry that these are being built by a new facility they are putting together? Or does it really just not matter at all and they are basically setting up again?

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7 hours ago, Purple Headed Warrior said:

So, I have never been involved in the carbon manufacturing of a race boat, but is it not a worry that these are being built by a new facility they are putting together? Or does it really just not matter at all and they are basically setting up again?

Isn't that pretty much what happened with Core for Oracle in AC 34?  Brand new facility at Warkworth specifically for the AC45 production.

Plus with the closure of the previous supplier you imagine they have picked up a few of the key staff directly.

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On 1/23/2019 at 12:39 AM, Ex-yachtie said:

So did they said that they are just starting to build the boat?  Does that mean that NZ is behind many of the other teams in building the first boat?  And, was that a factor in deciding to build the test boat?  So will the test boat be on the water way before the first boat?   

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7 minutes ago, Herfy said:

So did they said that they are just starting to build the boat?  Does that mean that NZ is behind many of the other teams in building the first boat?  And, was that a factor in deciding to build the test boat?  So will the test boat be on the water way before the first boat?   

Feh! Another Herald piece without a byline.  Essentially straight from the team website and last week's press release.

They've already said that Boat #1 will not be sailing until mid-year. That puts them behind other teams, although possibly holdups with delivery of foil arms will delay all players.

The big mystery is a small scale test boat.  There have been statements that they are commissioning one but nothing to suggest timing.

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On 1/23/2019 at 7:25 PM, Purple Headed Warrior said:

So, I have never been involved in the carbon manufacturing of a race boat, but is it not a worry that these are being built by a new facility they are putting together? Or does it really just not matter at all and they are basically setting up again?

Killian Bushe has been well documented how he can bring a team of people together to do Volvo or AC Boats in whatever location is most suited to a campaign. Jason Carrington has re-birthed effectively what was the Greene Marine operation in the UK. What ETNZ is doing is not unprecendented and I am sure it ticks their boxes that they have identified on the list. 

It was explained that Cooksons have gone - hence the need for a new facility - be sure that someone has done the analysis and worked out that that to keep the show on schedule whilst also needing product and IP confidentiality - these are the things that probably do not harmonise with an existing commercial operations - who whilst am sure could produce what is needed - probably cannot do it in the timelines or with the secrecy that is sought.

After all, once you have the ovens and autoclaves it is more about having the right dimensioned space and the right people. 

Rapid prototyping, repairs and maintenance will all be much easier to achieve with an in house facility.

This is a smart team with a good track record in making hard decisions. 

 

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20 hours ago, Boink said:

Killian Bushe has been well documented how he can bring a team of people together to do Volvo or AC Boats in whatever location is most suited to a campaign. Jason Carrington has re-birthed effectively what was the Greene Marine operation in the UK. What ETNZ is doing is not unprecendented and I am sure it ticks their boxes that they have identified on the list. 

It was explained that Cooksons have gone - hence the need for a new facility - be sure that someone has done the analysis and worked out that that to keep the show on schedule whilst also needing product and IP confidentiality - these are the things that probably do not harmonise with an existing commercial operations - who whilst am sure could produce what is needed - probably cannot do it in the timelines or with the secrecy that is sought.

After all, once you have the ovens and autoclaves it is more about having the right dimensioned space and the right people. 

Rapid prototyping, repairs and maintenance will all be much easier to achieve with an in house facility.

This is a smart team with a good track record in making hard decisions. 

 

That was kind of what I expected to hear, but I was not well informed about Killian Bushe which is intersting.

Jason on the other hand I am aware of and knowing he is doing the INEOS boat it will be interesting to see how he does after that with what you would expect to be Greens work.

Good luck to ETNZ, seems like a sensible (only) approach

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On 1/27/2019 at 12:59 PM, KiwiJoker said:

Feh! Another Herald piece without a byline.  Essentially straight from the team website and last week's press release.

They've (ETNZ) already said that Boat #1 will not be sailing until mid-year. That puts them behind other teams, although possibly holdups with delivery of foil arms will delay all players.

The big mystery is a small scale test boat.  There have been statements that they are commissioning one but nothing to suggest timing.

My supposition from yesterday got some confirmation from Jack Griffin in a "Foil System Update" in his latest newsletter today:

"Sample foil arms will be built and tested to destruction. Production foil arms and the FCS should be delivered to the teams within a few months. The schedule delay could impact the dates of the first America's Cup World Series, currently planned for October in Cagliari."   

 

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4 hours ago, Purple Headed Warrior said:

That was kind of what I expected to hear, but I was not well informed about Killian Bushe which is intersting.

Jason on the other hand I am aware of and knowing he is doing the INEOS boat it will be interesting to see how he does after that with what you would expect to be Greens work.

Good luck to ETNZ, seems like a sensible (only) approach

Yeah, Jason is also doing the new Hugo Boss, same but different....... The write up about the Ran VII build was good.

Which ever way you slice and dice it, you need these high end facilities to do the carbon work that foiling stresses produce. Pre preg is absolutely the way forward but still need consolidation/compaction that makes the laminate perform to the tolerances that the structure was designed to.

Witness EdeR and BP in the RdeR to see what happens when structures do not perform as expected - the BP case is interesting - they did not see more than 80% of designed loading - yet structure failed - which to me suggests collision with floating object - the boats are so noisey that it becomes harder to separate slamming noises from impact/collision noises - or a failied laminate structure from poor QC or build process. The insurer had already had the calcs from engineers re-evaluated prior to constuction..... so it is inferred that this side of the triangle has been absolved. The EdeR has been less public about their findings - 

Killian has an interesting history - dont quote me - but I think he built every Volvo winner from EF through to Groupama - with only Abu Dhabi One design breaking that stranglehold. so that was both VO60's and 70's with the move from Kevlar to Carbon and each built at a yard set up for the campaign. 

Tim Smythe has a similar path with the build of Dog Boat for Oracle then their 72's and ultimately the Core facility. I believe I have read that he is building one of the US AC75's - is it Magic's boat?

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Peter Burling and Blair Tuke made a habit of winning in the last Olympic cycle and started their new campaign in style by taking out the Oceanbridge NZL Sailing Regatta today.

They did it against arguably the strongest New Zealand 49er fleet ever, as well as a handful of international crews, and it will be a result that many around the world will take notice of.

They won six of the 11 races off the Royal Akarana Yacht Club to finish 14 points ahead of Isaac McHardie and William McKenzie, with Josh Porebski and Trent Rippey a further eight points behind in third.

“It’s been great,” Burling said. “It’s been a little like riding a bike; a lot of things come back really quickly. At the end of the day you need to put in a lot of time and that’s we’ve been doing over the last four or five months.

https://www.yachtingnz.org.nz/news/burling-and-tuke-start-new-olympic-campaign-style

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20 hours ago, Sea Breeze 74 said:

Peter Burling and Blair Tuke made a habit of winning in the last Olympic cycle and started their new campaign in style by taking out the Oceanbridge NZL Sailing Regatta today.

They did it against arguably the strongest New Zealand 49er fleet ever, as well as a handful of international crews, and it will be a result that many around the world will take notice of.

They won six of the 11 races off the Royal Akarana Yacht Club to finish 14 points ahead of Isaac McHardie and William McKenzie, with Josh Porebski and Trent Rippey a further eight points behind in third.

“It’s been great,” Burling said. “It’s been a little like riding a bike; a lot of things come back really quickly. At the end of the day you need to put in a lot of time and that’s we’ve been doing over the last four or five months.

https://www.yachtingnz.org.nz/news/burling-and-tuke-start-new-olympic-campaign-style

Sending a message. 

 

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yep but still 90% of the worlds best were in Miami this week (Fantela, the germans, the brits, etc), so the message is not strong yet 

Still Happy to see them back, and I am pretty sure they'll be back on top at the first world cup regatta they'll take part... we shall see soon

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https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-sports/110582173/glenn-ashby-and-team-nz-dominate-world-foiling-awards

Apparently the Italians are so convinced that they were responsible for the winning flight tech that ETNZ used that they hosted an award ceremony, in Italy, and gave the award for Foiling Innovation award to ETNZ & Dan Bernasconi "for their design solutions applied to flight control and construction." Go figure! ;-)

Glenn Ashby and Team New Zealand dominate world foiling awards

Glenn Ashby and the Team New Zealand designers have cleaned up at yachting's international foiling awards.

Ashby, who skippered Emirates Team New Zealand to their America's Cup success at Bermuda 2017, won the 2018 foiling sailor of the year ward for claiming his 10th world title in the A-class catamarans.

He also won the inaugural SuperFoiler Grand Prix in Australia and helped Swiss outfit Team Tilt win the world GC32 championship, both sailed in small foiling catamarans.

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2 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Pretty cool 

 

Interesting bit of history there.

The timing of this is clearly a not-so-subtle shot across the bows of SailGP and  their proprietary claim to being the big foiling show in town.

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1 hour ago, Sea Breeze 74 said:

The timing of this is clearly a not-so-subtle shot across the bows of SailGP and  their proprietary claim to being the big foiling show in town.

I am sure this short video is a serious threat to SailGP and will steal the show.

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32 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

I am sure this short video is a serious threat to SailGP and will steal the show.

I agree (including the sarcasm :D). It's an interesting bit of history but a bit desperate. I'm an ETNZ supporter, but it does suggest that SailGP has got under their skin a little.

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1 hour ago, Sea Breeze 74 said:

I agree (including the sarcasm :D). It's an interesting bit of history but a bit desperate. I'm an ETNZ supporter, but it does suggest that SailGP has got under their skin a little.

Oh I don't know... you can't argue that SGP isn't a response to losing the AC, and then argue that ETNZ sharing this video is a response to SGP...

It's simply called 'leveraging interest' and a great opportunity to build buzz for AC36, just like SGP leverage AC provenance too... ;-)

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6 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Pretty cool 

 

Story published in Stuff as well:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-sports/110622557/team-nzs-foiling-developed-on-secretive-mission-to-remote-lake

 

 

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1 hour ago, rh2600 said:

you can't argue that SGP isn't a response to losing the AC, and then argue that ETNZ sharing this video is a response to SGP...

Great, you should apply to their PR team.

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4 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

I am sure this short video is a serious threat to SailGP and will steal the show.

Probably did the trick in terms of reminding Kiwi fans just who is the best sailing team in the world today, and who has the silverware to prove it, and why they deserve to be called the best sailing team in the world today. SailGP can claim to have the "Best teams" but the fact is, they don't. And this video just serves as proof of that. People are turning away from Sky TV in droves, so the worst thing SailGP could've done was make a deal with Sky.

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3 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Great, you should apply to their PR team.

So I'm not wrong then? ;-)

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17 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

I am sure this short video is a serious threat to SailGP and will steal the show.

At least I can fucking watch it.

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17 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

I am sure this short video is a serious threat to SailGP and will steal the show.

Given the amateur crap that happened yesterday, that video actually might turn out to be a serious threat to SailGP lol 

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22 hours ago, Forourselves said:

People are turning away from Sky TV in droves, so the worst thing SailGP could've done was make a deal with Sky.

Yup, no faster way to kill a potential new sport in the New Zealand than to give it to the one massively overpriced monopoly that everyone in the country hates with a passion!!

Then of course you could double down on stupid and kill off half those left by only having an app that runs on Apple.

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I have to say that is good to see, some awesome engineering here!

A couple of questions strike me though and I have no doubt its all been thought about...

1 - How much extra load is on this system when in a sailing / Hydrodynamic environment?

2 - There is some wobble and flex in the arm (I guess there is bound to be), what effect will this have on the maneuvers? 

3 - How many times can this be used on one battery pack??

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Good to see Dimitri Despierres again - must admit AM’s doing everything right so far

OTOH, who’s LR’s Davy Moyon?

 

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Interesting to see after all the theorising they've gone with relatively simply hydraulics for the actual lifting - although from what I saw in earlier videos the hydraulic system itself is relatively complex given what it needs to do.

But overall, fucking awesome to see it working so well, and for the teams to be generally supportive of it being one design, and this design in particular...

How those foil arms coming I wonder ;-)

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14 hours ago, Forourselves said:

 

Seems to have a lot of bounce in the arm when it stops on the up and down movements.  Imagine when the whole weight of the boat is being held up on the one foil, hope it doesn't have too much flex or wobble.  Does that come from the hydraulic system?  Is that something that would be tighter if it was a gear driven system?  Maybe it is just a factor of the test arm that they are using for the demonstration.

Nice to see they are progressing.

 

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1 hour ago, Herfy said:

Seems to have a lot of bounce in the arm when it stops on the up and down movements.  Imagine when the whole weight of the boat is being held up on the one foil, hope it doesn't have too much flex or wobble.  Does that come from the hydraulic system?  Is that something that would be tighter if it was a gear driven system?  Maybe it is just a factor of the test arm that they are using for the demonstration.

Nice to see they are progressing.

 

The point of leverage when the arm is at the top is the weakest. As you point out, you can see that when it stops at the top it does wobble, and this wobble is fairly visible at the hydraulic arms themselves. However, when you watch the foil arm stop suddenly midway down (at some speed) it is a very rigid stop (38sec in clip), with minimal wobble that appears to be coming from the foil arm itself and the hydraulic arms have good leverage and much less force acting on them.

So I suspect that the engineers have chosen the leverage to be strongest where it matters, ie down the bottom rage. A small amount of bounce at the top, also where there is arguably the lowest load, is probably the preferred location for the weakest lever arm position.

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Best part for me is that this video shows the collaborative culture that etnz has created during the run up to this friendly competition amongst nations.

At least so far they seem to be walking the walk.

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The wobble would indicate there is some flex or give in the system.  I wonder how well it will stay where you put it (or want it)?.  If the forces are consistent in one direct, then I think you can compensate for any "give".  But as the forces change in a maneuver wouldn't the flex cause the foil arm to move by itself even though the hydraulics haven't moved?  Kinda like having a loose tire or something?  I don't know, just an observation.  It may not even matter because you could see the old L foils on the last AC boats flex as they sailed.

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3 hours ago, Herfy said:

you could see the old L foils on the last AC boats flex as they sailed.

You could see it in AC34 as well... Either that or it was Herby ;-)

Let's see the OTUSA fanboys decide on that one!

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The flex will 99% be in the arm itself, it looks like ally box section. Oil compression within the body of those 2 cylinders doing the work would be minute if at all. Guessing they would be running 5k-10k psi to lift that 1T load so there could be expansion in the hoses leading to the cylinder but that’s negated by putting the manifold on the cylinder and using hard lines instead. I think it’s simply the ally arm they are using. Looks awesome. Great to see a few designers from AC35 moving around teams. Nice work ETNZ

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So is Steinlager any good, the beer that is? US-wise, the best brews are still microbrews, but many sell out to mega breweries. I know nothing of Steinlager other than their continued sponsorship of TNZ, which I applaud. But is their beer any good?

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1 hour ago, Varan said:

So is Steinlager any good, the beer that is? US-wise, the best brews are still microbrews, but many sell out to mega breweries. I know nothing of Steinlager other than their continued sponsorship of TNZ, which I applaud. But is their beer any good?

Steinlager has a 'Classic' beer which is relatively poor... but was a massive brand in NZ...and had domestic advertising pitching it has having an international reputation...

950596473.jpg.a079aa7bfbe97cb7a8fe8564b20b93ff.jpg

A while back they re-imagined a new brew called Steinlager Pure which is your standard Green Bottle Premium (as it's known) ala Heineken, Stella, Tuborg etc... perfectly drinkable piss... I think it's probably their most popular Steinlager brew now...

So basically the equivalent of being sponsored by Heineken...

More important Steinlager was a Peter Blake stalwart - his relationship with Lion Nathan (brewing company of Steinlager) was long and deep...

 

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1 hour ago, hoom said:

Ah Japan yes that sounds familiar, not kiwi owned or brewed is the major point.

It is brewed in NZ...

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16 hours ago, rh2600 said:

Steinlager has a 'Classic' beer which is relatively poor... but was a massive brand in NZ...and had domestic advertising pitching it has having an international reputation...

950596473.jpg.a079aa7bfbe97cb7a8fe8564b20b93ff.jpg

A while back they re-imagined a new brew called Steinlager Pure which is your standard Green Bottle Premium (as it's known) ala Heineken, Stella, Tuborg etc... perfectly drinkable piss... I think it's probably their most popular Steinlager brew now...

So basically the equivalent of being sponsored by Heineken...

More important Steinlager was a Peter Blake stalwart - his relationship with Lion Nathan (brewing company of Steinlager) was long and deep...

 

Sure, but does it still enjoy the reputation of giving you a massive hangover, even after a few sips?  It's been years since I've run the risk.

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56 minutes ago, Ex-yachtie said:

Sure, but does it still enjoy the reputation of giving you a massive hangover, even after a few sips?  It's been years since I've run the risk.

Pure - no.

Classic - reputation (whether accurate it not) still exists.

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3 hours ago, Ex-yachtie said:

Sure, but does it still enjoy the reputation of giving you a massive hangover, even after a few sips?  It's been years since I've run the risk.

Personally, I like it. Either Pure or Classic and IMHO much better than Heineken. Heineken has an overrated following as THE green glass beer to drink despite having about as much taste as Rheineck. I'm calling Emperors new clothes on this one, and await the outrage from those who've been duped to pay top shelf prices for a mass produced generic Euro-Lager :D

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5 hours ago, rh2600 said:

Pure - no.

Classic - reputation (whether accurate it not) still exists.

I've dodged Steinlager for yonks because of the massive headache reputation.  A friend calls them Steingrenades!

Good news about S. Pure though.  Must try it.

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7 hours ago, KiwiJoker said:

I've dodged Steinlager for yonks because of the massive headache reputation.  A friend calls them Steingrenades!

Good news about S. Pure though.  Must try it.

If it makes the boat go faster...

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On 2/21/2019 at 1:14 PM, Varan said:

So is Steinlager any good, the beer that is? US-wise, the best brews are still microbrews, but many sell out to mega breweries. I know nothing of Steinlager other than their continued sponsorship of TNZ, which I applaud. But is their beer any good?

Rot gut quite frankly, but then I'm a fan of Theakstones Old Peculiar

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On 2/20/2019 at 3:48 AM, agk470 said:

The flex will 99% be in the arm itself, it looks like ally box section. Oil compression within the body of those 2 cylinders doing the work would be minute if at all. Guessing they would be running 5k-10k psi to lift that 1T load so there could be expansion in the hoses leading to the cylinder but that’s negated by putting the manifold on the cylinder and using hard lines instead. I think it’s simply the ally arm they are using. Looks awesome. Great to see a few designers from AC35 moving around teams. Nice work ETNZ

Thanks, I had just noticed the obvious moment and was wondering where it came from and if it would be a problem.

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