• Announcements

    • Zapata

      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

21,359 posts in this topic

 

Factoids...

 

Coutts and OR are smarter than Dalton and ETNZ! (The last AC's prove this)

 

OR have the best foiling control, design, and overall team.

 

While Burling is a fantastic helmsman he is going to need to have a competitive boat and a great crew (tactician). Also he has nor been challenged in a competitive class yet. (Like Ben has)

 

Most teams except OR are competing just to stay on the "gravy train" of professional sailing. Besides certain team members desire to win, most just love the money and lifestyle.

 

BAR are the most serious contender and have intimate knowledge of OR thanks to ben.

 

ETNZ is not resourced enough and with Dalton still involved will always be challenged in the conceptual and team stakes.there is no new blood in the management team thus expect the same shitenn a different day!

 

Coutts holds all the cards.

Would have to say some of your posts, especially earlier on, have been more rant than factoid based.

 

However not much wrong with this list at all.

 

 

Reality:

 

1. Coutts and OR are more devious than Dalton/ETNZ and the Poodles - what have the challengers got left that the defenders can't steal from them in the Protocol?

2. The brilliance of OR's foiling team was demonstrated in the last week of 34AC - but that was in AC72's using a very restricted rule - next time it will be in AC50's with foils and systems being open design. Who knows who will be best - no-one at this stage.

3. The AC50 is virtually a one-design boat - so it comes down to sailing ability. The Team NZ troika of Burling, Tuke and Ashby are without peer in the current Cup. The only other team who are sailing at a top international level are Nathan Outteridge and Iain Jensen - who have lost 20 regattas on the trot to Burling and Tuke - and in a top of the line high performance apparent wind class. Ainslie last won in Finns, through the error of a Dutch sailor who was set to take the 2012 Gold but muffed it on the last mark rounding of the last race and gave the Gold to Ben.

4. If you were wanting to get on the AC gravy train you would be signed up for Team Japan. Why would you want to sail for Team NZ - low pay - always getting negative media - fans have deserted them. Unless you wanted to be part of the most successful professional sailing team ever. We know Oracle were paying their ex-grinder $350,000 per year and he tried to get $456,000 - at which point Oracle decided even that was too rich for them and said "Sayonara, Joe".

5. Yes BAR are a serious contender but so are all the teams - there is a long way to go in this Cup.

6. ETNZ bit the bullet and made some hard decisions early on in the campaign with crew. The other existing teams just rolled over who they already had. Except five of Oracle's 11 crew from the AC72 decided to walk - why?

7. Of course Coutts holds all the cards - he's the dealer - and deals his own hand and everyone else's using a face-up deck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ We don't have a clue of who is going to win the cup.

What we know is that the foil design is key and that OR an AR have quite much advance with their Turbos.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And at about this stage in the last cycle, suddenly, footage appeared of a foiling AC72 in NZ. Impossible.

 

Who'd have thunk something was going on down there with no-one looking?

 

OR and AR the only two teams working on new foils - really?!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And at about this stage in the last cycle, suddenly, footage appeared of a foiling AC72 in NZ. Impossible.

 

Who'd have thunk something was going on down there with no-one looking?

 

OR and AR the only two teams working on new foils - really?!!

 

Yes, and after the, must have been photoshopped ETNZ came out of the water and flew on the Waitemata, OR and AR took ETNZ to the Jury to try and get foiling declared illegal - which they almost did, except the measurer was found to have applied an interpretation which effectively meant that he was creating a new class rule and was exceeding his authority.

 

And then OR broke a foil on the first sail.

 

They really had it sussed.

 

For sure they are way, way better than this now, but to say they have an edge or lead in this area given their past, is a long stretch, and is just arrogant or stupid, or both.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

And at about this stage in the last cycle, suddenly, footage appeared of a foiling AC72 in NZ. Impossible.

 

Who'd have thunk something was going on down there with no-one looking?

 

OR and AR the only two teams working on new foils - really?!!

Yes, and after the, must have been photoshopped ETNZ came out of the water and flew on the Waitemata, OR and AR took ETNZ to the Jury to try and get foiling declared illegal - which they almost did, except the measurer was found to have applied an interpretation which effectively meant that he was creating a new class rule and was exceeding his authority.

 

And then OR broke a foil on the first sail.

 

They really had it sussed.

 

For sure they are way, way better than this now, but to say they have an edge or lead in this area given their past, is a long stretch, and is just arrogant or stupid, or both.

But it is actually another year before we get that far along in the cycle, so there is a lot of time for things to happen. We are going to see a lot of thing happen on the development front especially with OR getting a second test bed, AR completing their new base on Morgans Island and ETNZ getting a platform to convert to more "AC50" like dimensions, we have only just seen the start of the development of the AC50. I think this time next year we are going to see some new ideas that in practice will get the "gotta be photoshopped" reacton just like ETNZ's 72.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am sure there may be 'some what the fuck is that' moments, whether they are as game changing as TNZ's photoshop not so sure.

 

However one problem I see is that it is almost impossible to keep this stuff hidden. Plus, with all the on-board cameras that have to be used, you can not even keep how you choreograph things like flying tacks secret. In the old lead mines, if you did a bit of a game changer ( the original black magic for example) it was to late for the opposition to do much about it, if they could even work out what it was. People turned up, lined up and found out if they were heroes or feather dusters. Now all the challengers have to show their wears in the build up regatta. Oracle get to turn up but don't have the same pressure to bare it all. Having the cash to spend and the time between the serious shit starting and the actual cup races is definitely a bonus for Oracle.

 

So yeah, there may be some breakthroughs, but they will be identified by the other teams and new bits made, after all these bits aren't that big. Oracle deserved to win last time as they never threw in the towel and they need respect for that. However their biggest advantage was making a vital break through too late in the game for anyone to even be worked out what it was.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Yes, and after the, must have been photoshopped ETNZ came out of the water and flew on the Waitemata, OR and AR took ETNZ to the Jury to try and get foiling declared illegal - which they almost did, except the measurer was found to have applied an interpretation which effectively meant that he was creating a new class rule and was exceeding his authority.

 

And then OR broke a foil on the first sail.

 

They really had it sussed.

 

For sure they are way, way better than this now, but to say they have an edge or lead in this area given their past, is a long stretch, and is just arrogant or stupid, or both.

But it is actually another year before we get that far along in the cycle, so there is a lot of time for things to happen. We are going to see a lot of thing happen on the development front especially with OR getting a second test bed, AR completing their new base on Morgans Island and ETNZ getting a platform to convert to more "AC50" like dimensions, we have only just seen the start of the development of the AC50. I think this time next year we are going to see some new ideas that in practice will get the "gotta be photoshopped" reacton just like ETNZ's 72.

 

 

Oracle are already on their third generation non-surrogate surrogate ACC boat. Both will be sailing in Bermuda withing weeks according to the team.

 

- OSboat 1, original configuration = 4+ months testing

- OSboat 2, being assembled at the Bermuda base now

- OSboat 1.1, 2nd iteration due out in 2 weeks (Aaron Perry video)

 

 

That's a hell of a development lead - even if you leave aside foils (but one is visible in the video and appears to be getting a makeover, so...)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

Yes, and after the, must have been photoshopped ETNZ came out of the water and flew on the Waitemata, OR and AR took ETNZ to the Jury to try and get foiling declared illegal - which they almost did, except the measurer was found to have applied an interpretation which effectively meant that he was creating a new class rule and was exceeding his authority.

 

And then OR broke a foil on the first sail.

 

They really had it sussed.

 

For sure they are way, way better than this now, but to say they have an edge or lead in this area given their past, is a long stretch, and is just arrogant or stupid, or both.

But it is actually another year before we get that far along in the cycle, so there is a lot of time for things to happen. We are going to see a lot of thing happen on the development front especially with OR getting a second test bed, AR completing their new base on Morgans Island and ETNZ getting a platform to convert to more "AC50" like dimensions, we have only just seen the start of the development of the AC50. I think this time next year we are going to see some new ideas that in practice will get the "gotta be photoshopped" reacton just like ETNZ's 72.

Oracle are already on their third generation non-surrogate surrogate ACC boat. Both will be sailing in Bermuda withing weeks according to the team.

 

- OSboat 1, original configuration = 4+ months testing

- OSboat 2, being assembled at the Bermuda base now

- OSboat 1.1, 2nd iteration due out in 2 weeks (Aaron Perry video)

 

 

That's a hell of a development lead - even if you leave aside foils (but one is visible in the video and appears to be getting a makeover, so...)

Third generation? Not to be picky, but isn't OR simply bringing the first boat up to (or as close as possible) where boat 2 is now?

OR will be building their 3rd gen boat soon,after some two boat testing, probably with delivery in Nov or Dec in time to sell the first boat to TJ.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ Well that's not my take on things, not what I took from the video and can't image why they would freeze development based on the unsailed 2nd gen boat.

Maybe you know more, you certainly sound very definitive about OTUSA's plans, what's the source of all that info?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thy almost learnt the hard way last time, that having a Gen 1.5 trial horse that is slower, isn't a good method of training and developing.

 

Took them 8 races against a faster boat to get on the program.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ Well that's not my take on things, not what I took from the video and can't image why they would freeze development based on the unsailed 2nd gen boat.

Maybe you know more, you certainly sound very definitive about OTUSA's plans, what's the source of all that info?

In my past I was part of a couple of leading edge build projects and still have a few friends who shoot me some info from time to time.

What I gathered is they are modding some of the hydro to make it more human powered, adding a grinding station and a cockpit to each hull (and with the hydro mods, some control improvements).

Then with the two boats scaled as an AC50 they can do some hot comparisons that could speed up their foil program.

OR is going to sell TJ a Sport boat, all indicators from several sources are that Dean and company are buying Sport Boat 1.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ ok thanks for the background. When you say they are doing mods, you just mean to OSboat1, as covered in the video I presume.

 

So are you saying that OSboat2 which must have been signed off on some time ago and so would not have benefited from all of the 'every time we sail we learn something new and can plan improvements' as Aaron Perry said - was built with the exact same set-up?

 

Is two boat testing in identical boats really the best/only way to test foils these days?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You really dont have a lot of flexability in design differences on the hulls and cross members except for layouts and equipment positions. The biggest differences will be in ergonomics, efficiency of placement, and control/hydro configurations.

So the boats themselves will remain very little changed except for systems you really can't see, aero packages that can be tried and changed/replaced without a MAJOR rebuild, and then there is foil development and wing control.

Having 2 boats scaled as close to the AC50 as possible would be your best test platform. Sport boat 1 was built when they were still under the AC62 rule, boat 2 was probably commissioned under the 48 guidelines (I don't know if there had been adequate time to redesign to AC50 scale).

OR, having deep pockets will probably end up with 2 boats scaled to the 50 by spring of next year, sooner if boat 2 is already there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The trouble with OR's boats in AC34 was that originally, like AR, they were not designing to foil.

They got boat 1 foiling, then redesigned boat 2 with some significant improvement on handeling. The problem was that they had no real yard stick to tell how much inprovement was possible or needed because the 2 boats had to be set up differently and neither were designed as foilers from the start.

By having 2 boats designed under the same design philosophy you can guage your improvements that much more accurately. As it was, both boats were compromises, one more than the other.

Developing a program around boats not originally designed to do what you ask of them (foil), and try to make them perform better than a 2 boat program that was designed for foiling from the start is a big endeavor.

OR eventually got it done, but spent a lot of time on the water figuring out how to get stable flight from their boats.

Once they got that, they were able to learn what ETNZ was doing, and how to overcome their deficiencies by sailing against them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The trouble with OR's boats in AC34 was that originally, like AR, they were not designing to foil.

They got boat 1 foiling, then redesigned boat 2 with some significant improvement on handeling. The problem was that they had no real yard stick to tell how much inprovement was possible or needed because the 2 boats had to be set up differently and neither were designed as foilers from the start.

By having 2 boats designed under the same design philosophy you can guage your improvements that much more accurately. As it was, both boats were compromises, one more than the other.

Developing a program around boats not originally designed to do what you ask of them (foil), and try to make them perform better than a 2 boat program that was designed for foiling from the start is a big endeavor.

OR eventually got it done, but spent a lot of time on the water figuring out how to get stable flight from their boats.

Once they got that, they were able to learn what ETNZ was doing, and how to overcome their deficiencies by sailing against them.

 

You just described what made the SF AC so compelling ... we saw the AC design, testing, development , and racing in real time, and the results were spectacular. The sailing world owes a lot to ETNZ for being the ultimate AC'ers and pushing the limits so hard and so far and everyone just played catch up (and ultimately overtook them obviously)

 

we don't realize what we witnessed in that last cycle

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ ok thanks for the background. When you say they are doing mods, you just mean to OSboat1, as covered in the video I presume.

 

So are you saying that OSboat2 which must have been signed off on some time ago and so would not have benefited from all of the 'every time we sail we learn something new and can plan improvements' as Aaron Perry said - was built with the exact same set-up?

 

Is two boat testing in identical boats really the best/only way to test foils these days?

 

 

You really dont have a lot of flexability in design differences on the hulls and cross members except for layouts and equipment positions. The biggest differences will be in ergonomics, efficiency of placement, and control/hydro configurations.

So the boats themselves will remain very little changed except for systems you really can't see, aero packages that can be tried and changed/replaced without a MAJOR rebuild, and then there is foil development and wing control.

Having 2 boats scaled as close to the AC50 as possible would be your best test platform. Sport boat 1 was built when they were still under the AC62 rule, boat 2 was probably commissioned under the 48 guidelines (I don't know if there had been adequate time to redesign to AC50 scale).

OR, having deep pockets will probably end up with 2 boats scaled to the 50 by spring of next year, sooner if boat 2 is already there.

 

You are stating a lot of obvious stuff there, and stuff long since acknowledged.

But you didn't really answer the questions or explain what you have heard re the 2 boats that are supposed to be coming together in Bermuda in a few weeks from now - not next spring!?

By concentrating on foils only and insisting on 2 identical boats as you suggested it places a freeze on all the other development areas. All the 'hidden systems' as you say.

They can't have boats going in and out of the shed leapfrogging each other as better ideas are developed - if they need to remain identical for foil testing. Seems a bit 'yesterday' and ignores all that terabyte data gathering tech and number crunching ability they skite about.

I'm a bit confused now what is insider info and what is speculation.

Didn't you state that the present 2 boats would be matched for foil testing - what sense does it make to give away one of those specially matched boats to OJ then?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My guess is that because TJ bought a design from OR, as part of the deal they got to buy a boat with the same control systems as what that design spec'd. And then TJ takes it in whatever direction from there, including in foil and aero evolutions. The B1 upgrade that OR is doing to make it like B2 may well be contract-related.

 

Again, Core has a proven history of building a lot of stuff fast. They will likely send B3 in short order with even more advanced control systems - at which point perhaps OR's B2 will get upgraded too. Unlike with boards there are no restrictions on any control systems.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ Sure, makes sense - if you completely ignore the statements of their own development engineers, but who knows, time will tell.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Specifically which statements by their development engineers preclude more boats, with more-advanced systems, being in the pipeline?

 

We should expect the same effort from other teams too, especially in this next 14 months before the 50's can launch but even then we can expect frequent upgrades to those AC50s.

 

Some posters here bitch about everything being 'OD.' My sense is that they will look like fools once this all ramps up; we are seeing only the start of it with what OR's development, yes development, path already looks like.

 

Control system developments played critical roles in AC34, they may very well be an even bigger factor in this AC35 cycle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You and chainlocker need to get your story straight. Is it '2 identical boats essential for foil development' or 'continual changes and new boats popping up weekly with old ones being sold off like a 2nd hand car dealership'?

 

Boat-for-sale.jpg

 

ArthurDaley1_3274975b.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's not an either/or scenario. While the outter shells of the platforms and wings are tightly restricted, the substructures to accommodate ever more creative systems may very well make entirely new boats in the pipeline built to encompass those upgrades a better strategy than some strategy that causes taking existing training boats offline for extended periods. If they can at the same time compare just foils and crew using boats already-delivered, well then teams will obviously take that advantage too. Unless they are on a path for losers, lazily spinning around and stupidly smoking whatever their way is along a non-optimized development path to actually winning this Cup.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Control system developments played critical roles in AC34, they may very well be an even bigger factor in this AC35 cycle.

As far as we were told by OR guys it was not the foil control system who made the difference but the wing slots and wing trimming.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

TC, when Oracle dug her hole to set the stage for the comeback, they had very poor control over the main foils-when they improved that design the boat started doing much better. That wasn't the only problem but, as I remember it, it was one of the toughest to fix-and fix it they did...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ Except it's been claimed repeatedly that that change to the foil control system preceded the match and had nothing to do with the last second improvements

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They just learned how to set up there boat and how to sail there boat in the best possible way. Remember 2 weeks before and there pathetic attempts to jibe. They could not even jibe in a good way. In the first races they could not tack in a good way. A week later. You know the story.

 

B1 was always faster then B2 but not very controllable. How about try to sail B2 like B1. Change the rake and load up the rig and boat in a different way. You got the speed of B1 with the controllability of B2.

 

As they say. The rest is history.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

19 days to the start of the Rugby World Cup.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting that Blair (is it?^) is who got into the spraying match with JS, who is always very aggressively fun that way. Blair is pretty cool.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Suck it in RC

 

 

3 hrs ·

Well Done ETNZ in the Louis Vuitton America's Cup World Series in Gothenburg. Burling is impressive!

 

Out of interest, jumped on to Russell's page to see the post, then thought stuff it, I'll drop the old fart a line and ask him if he was going to show the races on the big screen?

Don't know how everyone is doing it, as I sure as hell are not - wifi out here would not work, but a minion of his advises to live stream in on the App then use AirPlay via Apple TV

Obviously he's expects everyone to go grab an Apple TV.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Suck it in RC

 

 

Russell Coutts

3 hrs ·

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well Done ETNZ in the Louis Vuitton America's Cup World Series in Gothenburg. Burling is impressive!

ETNZ is not there to fuck spiders

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ + ACDUH and JS (who does the Oracackle) need a spin meeting.

 

- Is it that ETNZ screwed up by allowing Dean to leave?

 

- that they are still useless - but Burling is good enough to make up for it?

 

- that Jimmy had a headache?

 

- or??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Suck it in RC

 

 

3 hrs ·

Well Done ETNZ in the Louis Vuitton America's Cup World Series in Gothenburg. Burling is impressive!

 

https://www.facebook.com/russellcouttssailor?fref=nf#

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Funny, it's what I once posted too, wonder if he read it?

--

 

Russell Coutts Yep, about the cost of buying a beer!

Like · 10 hrs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Someone should ask him about the balloons release, ask if that was ACEA's idea or the local organizers, or what.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Funny, it's what I once posted too, wonder if he read it?

--

 

Russell Coutts Yep, about the cost of buying a beer!

Like · 10 hrs

 

That's an expensive beer!

(The reply of the other chap above is funny.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But it's true for a good beer in any decent place. Believe me, it's a too-frequent ding in any normal week for me :)

 

The app did crash for me, apparently there is an issue when running it on an old iPhoneS with iOS 7.x. But they changed a setting on my account and that fixed it, instantly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

TC, it was clearly stated that in France and other countries where broadcasters had exclusive Live TV rights on coverage, that the app wouldn't give it.

 

A big problem for some, apparently you included, is that during the sign-up to pay, the app doesn't remind you of that fact.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Funny, it's what I once posted too, wonder if he read it?

--

 

Russell Coutts Yep, about the cost of buying a beer!

Like · 10 hrs

 

I was just thinking your arguments were very similar. Are you actually RC? If so, please, stop.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Funny, it's what I once posted too, wonder if he read it?

--

 

Russell Coutts Yep, about the cost of buying a beer!

Like · 10 hrs

I was just thinking your arguments were very similar. Are you actually RC? If so, please, stop.

Have briefly met him a few times but he'd have no memory of those occasions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

TC, it was clearly stated that in France and other countries where broadcasters had exclusive Live TV rights on coverage, that the app wouldn't give it.

 

A big problem for some, apparently you included, is that during the sign-up to pay, the app doesn't remind you of that fact.

^^ The other way around, I knew it but hoped to go around with another IP and, if it would not work, use it later in Northern America, at least for the replays which is what they advertise, isn't it ?

 

Better, they sent me an email telling me I would be refunded, which shows they didn't even know I was in France...

 

But I don't mind to lose the price of beer hoping to get a first quality show (Gothenburg) back in Northern America. Niet, nada, I would have had to use a microscopic cell phone to watch it.

 

Let them go to hell with their shitty app, and they can keep my money, I'll watch Clean's links.

 

Not sure I want to go to Bermudas for the same kind of no show on a larger scale though...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The app did crash for me, apparently there is an issue when running it on an old iPhoneS with iOS 7.x.

It should be working until the beginning of next event :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Funny, it's what I once posted too, wonder if he read it?

--

Russell Coutts Yep, about the cost of buying a beer!

Like · 10 hrs

I was just thinking your arguments were very similar. Are you actually RC? If so, please, stop.

Have briefly met him a few times but he'd have no memory of those occasions.

You should have tried harder with the bj's, lazza and ehman remember you fondly with a smile....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But it's true for a good beer in any decent place.

 

You can have a very good beer in my very pleasant sailing club for significantly less than $8. You can even have it too cold to taste if that's the kind of beer you want.

 

Apart from which, if I had the option of viewing an ACWS live for $8 I probably would. Russell, you fuckwit, I don't have that option. Most people don't. You've sold the rights to a network.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What is so awesome about ETNX is the demeanor of Burling! As opposed to Barker.

 

Burling is cool, confident, not difficult / uncomfortable in front of the press.

 

Burling, is relaxed, and does not have to think to hard about what he is going to say.

 

A real "natural" on and off the water.

 

A real winner and contender for the AC.

 

And the crew look a lot happier than they ever were with Barker.

 

This looks like a real winning team.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I doubt it.

 

Most wimps here are to scared to engage with me.

 

Mind you it is hard to argue with someone who is right!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Man this is one car crash waiting to happen....

 

Will this crash involve a Japanese vehicle?

 

At this point I absolutely refuse to seque a culturally insensitive reference.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What is so awesome about ETNX is the demeanor of Burling! As opposed to Barker.

 

Burling is cool, confident, not difficult / uncomfortable in front of the press.

 

Burling, is relaxed, and does not have to think to hard about what he is going to say.

 

A real "natural" on and off the water.

 

A real winner and contender for the AC.

 

And the crew look a lot happier than they ever were with Barker.

 

This looks like a real winning team.

You are starting to sound like a real ETNZ fanboy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Man this is one car crash waiting to happen....

Haha yeah it's reading that way.

 

After the most remarkable come back in sporting history, you'd be a fool to discount OR and BAR.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

But it's true for a good beer in any decent place.

 

You can have a very good beer in my very pleasant sailing club for significantly less than $8. You can even have it too cold to taste if that's the kind of beer you want.

 

Apart from which, if I had the option of viewing an ACWS live for $8 I probably would. Russell, you fuckwit, I don't have that option. Most people don't. You've sold the rights to a network.

 

The only logic explanation for banning the apps from computer is a deal with TV networks, but are they logic ?

 

I don't mind to watch on TV, even if I pay, however whether in France or Northern America I just can't see it with their app or on TV, not even a replay, not even if I pay.

 

I like the sport enough to get the best show, as most of us here I guess, if diehards fans can rely on Clean's link what about the public they want to attract ?

 

So if Russell got some money from a TV network fine for him, but what are the sponsors going to say if nobody can watch the races ? not sure they are very happy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

.. what are the sponsors going to say if nobody can watch the races ? not sure they are very happy.

My guess? The sponsors wanted those TV broadcast deals.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

.. what are the sponsors going to say if nobody can watch the races ? not sure they are very happy.

My guess? The sponsors wanted those TV broadcast deals.

 

Of course they did. They are excited about all those millions of potential new clients in Belize and San Salvador that will be glued to the screen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We honestly don't know their preference, it is a possibility.

 

I watched the numbers of YT viewers in the last cycle, the count was pretty dang small no matter the event. On TV you're likely to catch ten times as many even if they simply stumble across it while flicking through channels and think 'wow, that's different.'

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

.. what are the sponsors going to say if nobody can watch the races ? not sure they are very happy.

My guess? The sponsors wanted those TV broadcast deals.

 

^^ With what one can see on TV now they must be mesmerized.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We honestly don't know their preference, it is a possibility.

 

I watched the numbers of YT viewers in the last cycle, the count was pretty dang small no matter the event. On TV you're likely to catch ten times about as many even if they simply stumble across it while flicking through channels and think 'wow, that's different hobie cat racing...' before moving on to the movie channels...

 

Fixed it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I understand why a broadcaster who purchased rights to an event would want to make sure that they are the exclusive provider of that event within the territory they own. This is to ensure that any eyes on the event within that territory are watching their feed. The larger the audience (and demographics of that audience) the better the potential advertising revenue. Basic business.

But if you are simply tying up the event and not showing it, what business practice says piss off the audience and make them hostile to your network and the event.

In the case of NBC, if the ACEA said you have to take the ACWS or you can't have the Cup or LV Challenger series, but you have no real intention of televising the World Series, wouldn't it make more sense to let people have access whether it be free YouTube stream or even pc access through a paid app, with the possible chance of growing an audience for the Challenger Series and Finals, rather than erroding the already small fan base, the basis of your decision not to show the ACWS to begin with.

What does NBC have to gain by not showing the ACWS live or even same day tape delay? The highlight show will have only limited viewership at best, "live" or delayed full coverage is what the fan wants.

All NBC (and the ACEA) has done is forced this small fan base to seek, find and perfect alternative event sources, that by the time the "money" event takes place, will have made these alternative veiwing arrangements a comfortable habit, even further erroding an already small viewer base.

I want to congratulate the America's Cup Event Authority for developing a perfect system for assuring that the televised audience of the America's Cup is on a permanent downward trajectory for the duration of AC35, and with continuity in management will disappear from even print coverage to become exclusively a "Word-Of-Mouth" covered event, discussed at yacht club bars when there is nothing else to talk about.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

What is so awesome about ETNX is the demeanor of Burling! As opposed to Barker.

Burling is cool, confident, not difficult / uncomfortable in front of the press.

Burling, is relaxed, and does not have to think to hard about what he is going to say.

A real "natural" on and off the water.

A real winner and contender for the AC.

And the crew look a lot happier than they ever were with Barker.

This looks like a real winning team.

 

You are starting to sound like a real ETNZ fanboy.

Ahhh Esprit, long time no see. :-)

 

I have been a long time TNZ supporter but saw the writing on the wall 15;years ago when Dean Barker stepped on board then, along with Tom Schnakenberg, fucked up badly whilst playing with a hula.

 

As you know, i predicted Barker would fail in 2005 and would never win again. And I posted it for all to see.

 

As soon as barker joined TNZ I followed Coutts and any team he was in!... and he has nit let me down.

 

Now that "super choker Mk2" has left ETNZ I can now support them because I see real talent, cohesion and potential in this team.

 

burling is in the same league as Ainslie and A real talent in these machines. jimmy is also a talent in these boats thanks to russell and Larry, but is not as naturally skilled as Burling and Ainslie

 

 

These three are the teams to watch and i really rate them quite evenly.

 

Team Soft wank with Barker on board will not come close... unless all the other teams withdraw or break.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's all on in Italy at the A-Class World Championships for Emirates Team New Zealand skipper Glenn Ashby.
4 wins from 4 races for Ashby in his fleet so far in Punta Ala.

It's the biggest field of entries ever: Two fleets made up of 173 entries from 18 countries.

Glenn Ashby makes perfect start to defence of his A-Class catamaran world title, winning first four races in Italy.
stuff.co.nz
Glen explains his boat
ACW-GA-csn.jpg
ACW-D2-GA-gu.jpg
AClassWorlds2015D3-10.jpg
5 wins from 5 now AFAIK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Man this is one car crash waiting to happen....

Will this crash involve a Japanese vehicle?

 

At this point I absolutely refuse to seque a culturally insensitive reference.

he's going to do this all on his own. There's no one so bitter as a jilted lover and second clearly isn't good enough!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice post on Glen Ashby Nav.

Good to have him on board, that is for sure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ Thanks

 

he continued the streak..

 

7 wins from 7 races at the A-Class World Championships for Emirates Team New Zealand skipper Glenn Ashby, with the final day's racing still to go.

It's anything but easy. Ashby has a slight 3 point lead over Dutchman Mischa Heeskerk going into the final day tomorrow!

 

11229393_915669825154805_342429038222064

 

11221954_915669755154812_270362872409838

 

12002377_915670191821435_776061984975472

 

11950289_915670808488040_632112481343209

 

11923291_915671791821275_340882814772004

 

I guess they are back at it now

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Everything you need to know about Emirates Team New Zealand's young helmsman https://www.americascup.com/en/news/2042_Meet-Peter-Burling.html

m931_crop169014_1024x576_proportional_14

Stats:

Nationality: NZL

Age: 24

Started Sailing: Age 8

Number of America's Cup Campaigns: 1st

  • Youngest helmsman and one of youngest sailors in 35th America’s Cup
  • Olympic 2012 Silver Medalist in the 49er skiff class
  • Unbeaten in the 49er since 2012 (4 yrs, 20 regattas) and is aiming for Gold in Rio 2016
  • 2 time 49er World Champion and 3 time 49er European Champion with teammate Blair Tuke
  • Youngest sailing competitor at the 2008 Olympics, as well as the youngest sailor ever to represent New Zealand in Olympics
  • Led the New Zealand youth team to victory in the 2013 Red Bull Youth America’s Cup
  • 2015 International Moth World Champion made even more impressive by the fact it was only his 3rd time sailing in the class!
  • 2 time New Zealand Sailor of the Year
  • 4 time NZ Young Sailor of the Year

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...... and fortunately, it will be more of a driver and crew race than a design race.

When they all have their feet wet and running up to the AC, I look forward to seeing the battle between ETNZ and BAR.

Looking good ETNZ.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice one again Nav.

With Burling's and Ashby's recent results I somehow feel that ETNZ may start to feel a wee bit of confidence.

They are leading a pretty awesome team.

That being said, no fat Lady has sung yet and they still have not earned anything yet.

And neither have BAR, OR, JAPAN, ARTIE, nor GROUPIE.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Etnz have an awesome team. However this ac is going to be won on binary.

 

What the hell does that mean?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Etnz have an awesome team. However this ac is going to be won on binary.

 

What the hell does that mean?

I assume data and computer analysis

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Etnz have an awesome team. However this ac is going to be won on binary.

What the hell does that mean?

I assume data and computer analysis

 

I am curious.

If people do not understand something, why do they get abusive?

Perhaps a question posed such as: "I say chaps, to what do you refer?".

A little civility does go a long way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Etnz have an awesome team. However this ac is going to be won on binary.

What the hell does that mean?

I assume data and computer analysis

 

Or does it mean match racing ? ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Binary... 1's and 0's, thought that was obvious.

 

Binary => win or lose. Seems obvious to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

What is so awesome about ETNX is the demeanor of Burling! As opposed to Barker.

Burling is cool, confident, not difficult / uncomfortable in front of the press.

Burling, is relaxed, and does not have to think to hard about what he is going to say.

A real "natural" on and off the water.

A real winner and contender for the AC.

And the crew look a lot happier than they ever were with Barker.

This looks like a real winning team.

You are starting to sound like a real ETNZ fanboy.

Ahhh Esprit, long time no see. :-)

I have been a long time TNZ supporter but saw the writing on the wall 15;years ago when Dean Barker stepped on board then, along with Tom Schnakenberg, fucked up badly whilst playing with a hula.

As you know, i predicted Barker would fail in 2005 and would never win again. And I posted it for all to see.

As soon as barker joined TNZ I followed Coutts and any team he was in!... and he has nit let me down.

Now that "super choker Mk2" has left ETNZ I can now support them because I see real talent, cohesion and potential in this team.

burling is in the same league as Ainslie and A real talent in these machines. jimmy is also a talent in these boats thanks to russell and Larry, but is not as naturally skilled as Burling and Ainslie

These three are the teams to watch and i really rate them quite evenly.

Team Soft wank with Barker on board will not come close... unless all the other teams withdraw or break.

You must of posted most that with your socks on G, this is still a relatively fresh one and wasn't for most of the above.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Apparently the obsessed and uninformed fools at ETNZ aren't listening to any of the apathetic but informed experts here, since WTH is the point of designing anything for a OD JAR endeavor?

--

Emirates Team New Zealand to Set Sail With Intercad

 

September 14, 2015

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/CU1509/S00194/emirates-team-new-zealand-to-set-sail-with-intercad.htm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Apparently the obsessed and uninformed fools at ETNZ aren't listening to any of the apathetic but informed experts here, since WTH is the point of designing anything for a OD JAR endeavor?

--

Emirates Team New Zealand to Set Sail With Intercad

September 14, 2015http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/CU1509/S00194/emirates-team-new-zealand-to-set-sail-with-intercad.htm

Well,I wouldn't go as far as to call,them obsesses and uninformed as you have but they are a bit shall we say " enthusiastic " with the dollar amounts they throw around . This is from the ETNZ news release you quoted :

 

" With each boat valued in the tens of millions of dollars and with the winning team able to host the next Cup, thus bringing hundreds of millions of dollars in sponsorship and exposure to their respective region, each race is high stakes. Setbacks in the design phase therefore equate to less practice; any slight design errors could lead to a loss."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Apparently the obsessed and uninformed fools at ETNZ aren't listening to any of the apathetic but informed experts here, since WTH is the point of designing anything for a OD JAR endeavor?

--

Emirates Team New Zealand to Set Sail With Intercad

 

September 14, 2015

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/CU1509/S00194/emirates-team-new-zealand-to-set-sail-with-intercad.htm

 

Isn't it rather obsessed and uninformed to pull a marketing fluff piece and try to use it as evidence for something?

 

ETNZ apparently have sponsorship from InterCAD. They're hardly likely to suggest design is irrelevant to them and they use pencils on the back of a beer mat to facilitate their design work.

 

And who would want to say, "there's no point designing anything for this OD piece of shit event" because they'd be fined. 8-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The point is, that those of you who so obsessively argue the so obviously uninformed opinion that design will play no part in AC35 - because it is in your opinions OD and therefore JAR - are flat-out wrong.

 

Yes it's a smallish press release but it was fresh from today. There's a very large body of already existing material about the ongoing design efforts by the syndicates, the biggest example being BAR's material describing all the of F1 experience being brought to bear, along with the reasons why.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Apparently the obsessed and uninformed fools at ETNZ aren't listening to any of the apathetic but informed experts here, since WTH is the point of designing anything for a OD JAR endeavor?

--

Emirates Team New Zealand to Set Sail With Intercad

 

September 14, 2015

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/CU1509/S00194/emirates-team-new-zealand-to-set-sail-with-intercad.htm

 

Isn't it rather obsessed and uninformed to pull a marketing fluff piece and try to use it as evidence for something?

 

ETNZ apparently have sponsorship from InterCAD. They're hardly likely to suggest design is irrelevant to them and they use pencils on the back of a beer mat to facilitate their design work.

 

And who would want to say, "there's no point designing anything for this OD piece of shit event" because they'd be fined. 8-)

 

And the team fined for saying nasty things.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What team is being fined for saying nasty things?

 

If you're wishing that GD will come out and argue your opinion that AC35 can't be wine, that the rules are unfair, that the boats are the wrong ones, and that (whatever your various problems are) well: He has already come out and said the exact opposite.

 

Unless you are a crazy tin-hat the likes of nav, who when it comes to motivations just makes shit up out of nowhere, then you might as well take GD and others at their word. Nobody is forcing GD or any of the other syndicate heads to say any of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Being rather defensive there Stinggers (again)

 

Nobody has been, or is being, fined for saying nasty things. However it is certainly in the rules. So yes you could say that no-one is forcing GD and others to play nice, but there is a big stick in the room at all times.

 

Never seen a decent sport that has needed gag orders on the contestants before. Bit of psycho bullshit never harms anyone and helps sort out the men and boys. Also helps polarize the audience, creating sides and a bit of argy at the bar over whose team is the biggest asshole.

 

But not this time, all must behave and follow the leader. A good time must be had by all and the information must be sanitised.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(...)

Never seen a decent sport that has needed gag orders on the contestants before.(...)

Each and every motorsports series. It's even a rule in the ISC, hence it's mandatory the moment you organize a series or event. How it's handled is up to the stewards tho.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Being rather defensive there Stinggers (again)

 

Nobody has been, or is being, fined for saying nasty things. However it is certainly in the rules. So yes you could say that no-one is forcing GD and others to play nice, but there is a big stick in the room at all times.

 

Never seen a decent sport that has needed gag orders on the contestants before. Bit of psycho bullshit never harms anyone and helps sort out the men and boys. Also helps polarize the audience, creating sides and a bit of argy at the bar over whose team is the biggest asshole.

 

But not this time, all must behave and follow the leader. A good time must be had by all and the information must be sanitised.

 

You don't follow the NRL.

Referees are untouchable

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gissie, my point was just that while there are potential penalties for 'smearing' the event there are no requirements to praise it; and yet GD has done so regardless in expressing optimism for the arrangements, for the chances ETNZ has to win under them, and for reasons which include the boat design rule.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Again, GD has to raise $ via sponsorship. He CAN'T very well say "give me your dollars for this suckful event in which no one interested can view anything live..."

 

Please don't confuse a necessity with approval...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Again, GD has to raise $ via sponsorship. He CAN'T very well say "give me your dollars for this suckful event in which no one interested can view anything live..."

 

Please don't confuse a necessity with approval...

Are you suggesting he's lying, suggesting that he doesn't believe ETNZ can win, for all the reasons he has given, in all those interviews?

 

Are you suggesting the same of all the others, from all the teams, who under no obligation whatsoever by the ACEA, have expressed very similar optimism?

 

It's a long list of parties who are excited about AC35, they are a combination of very interested and (therefore) very well informed too.

 

The attitude expressed by Moonduster (ie: that anyone who is jazzed must be therefore be 'uninformed') is simply bullshit. Unlike Moonduster, those who actually do know best clearly are jazzed by the coming AC Challenge.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Again, GD has to raise $ via sponsorship. He CAN'T very well say "give me your dollars for this suckful event in which no one interested can view anything live..."

Please don't confuse a necessity with approval...

Are you suggesting he's lying, suggesting that he doesn't believe ETNZ can win, for all the reasons he has given, in all those interviews?

Are you suggesting the same of all the others, from all the teams, who under no obligation whatsoever by the ACEA, have expressed very similar optimism?

It's a long list of parties who are excited about AC35, they are a combination of very interested and (therefore) very well informed too.

The attitude expressed by Moonduster (ie: that anyone who is jazzed must be therefore be 'uninformed') is simply bullshit. Unlike Moonduster, those who actually do know best clearly are jazzed by the coming AC Challenge.

I don't think anyone is saying he doesn't think TNZ can win, just that he's not saying what he really thinks about acea and lazzavision, and that you are just too loony to realize it.

The others are professional sailors too, do you really think that teams j, c, and f have a prayer of beating your heros in the Cup?

Jazzed up?? The long list doesn't include too many without a vested interest in their livelihood, unless you are talking about you and your ten mates here...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay, then: Give us your looney tunes opinion about "what he really thinks about acea and lazzavision" - and be prepared to back it up with facts and quotes to support your looneyness. The ammunition behind my point is all supplied directly by GD, so have a lot of fun with this..

 

The fact is, GD disagrees with you and GD is far better informed than any of us, to the point that he has flat out said also in past interviews that he is, quite literally, 'obsessed' with the AC. Yes, I can find that interview too.

 

You and Moonduster and others' opinions that the informed are the apathetic, that only the 'uninformed' are 'obsessed' and therefore interested, is just more complete bullshit as posted by those who intentionally ignore reality. If GD disagrees your position, well then why not just accept the fact you disagree and add him to the shitlist of your miserable, crybaby 'Whaaah' existence?

 

Like ETNZ is, I am LOOKING FORWARD to AC35 and think it will be very cool.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay, then: Give us your looney tunes opinion about "what he really thinks about acea and lazzavision" - and be prepared to back it up with facts and quotes to support your looneyness. The ammunition behind my point is all supplied directly by GD, so have a lot of fun with this..

The fact is, GD disagrees with you and GD is far better informed than any of us, to the point that he has flat out said also in past interviews that he is, quite literally, 'obsessed' with the AC. Yes, I can find that interview too.

You and Moonduster and others' opinions that the informed are the apathetic, that only the 'uninformed' are 'obsessed' and therefore interested, is just more complete bullshit as posted by those who intentionally ignore reality. If GD disagrees your position, well then why not just accept the fact you disagree and add him to the list.

Over many years and thousands of posts, you and your elk have told us what a lying, cheating scumbag Grant Dalton is...now because he is under a gag order and he is trying to raise a budget to win back the AC, he is suddenly telling the absolute truth whenever he talks about the world super league of the world...most here can figure that out, it's the obsessed ones who can't...

 

And I'll make a bet with you now... If TNZ win, you won't be seeing any more AC45/48/50s...

 

Your posts get weirder as you edge closer to 50,000 of them...you are right up there with loony DouG and the the crazed indian, but then thinking about it, you told the forum what a good guy the scalper was when you had dinner with him that time...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now