• Announcements

    • Zapata

      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

Recommended Posts

That mis-begotten shitfight started by ETNZ ruined a lot, even the opening day when LR refused to race over that issue, and yet ETNZ, spinelessly, raced alone to take that point from LR anyway. The whole approach was Ugly, Unnecessary, and misUnderstood.

 

Stinger

 

While I don't necessarily agree with the rest of your post, I take issue with this part. IM started that episode, unless you want to blame Bart for it. ETNZ didn't actually object to the safety reccomendations per se. What they did object to was changing the class rule without the competitors agreeing, and that was upheld as correct. I can't remember all of the safety recommendations off the top of my head now, but ETNZ did implement them as I recall?

 

Oh yes, they did manage to nix the symmetrical rudders to try to make Oracle modify their boat - this is the AC.

 

"ETNA spinelessly sailed to take the point?" Are you serious??? It was a competition, and it was the first day of the event! Would RC have thanked them for not sailing so the first LV race had no sailing??? Great regatta start that would be! At that point how is ENTZ to know that they wont need every point they can get if a breakdown / capsise occurred? LR chose not to sail, no one forced them, ETNZ did as any competitor was able to do. How is that" Ugly, Unnecessary and misUnderstood"?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well obviously once developments develop there will be plenty of strife between teams as usual, it's the AC after all.

 

But it's encouraging for AC35 that the basic arrangement is being bought into by teams with as much as quality as ETNZ has.

 

GD has been saying for months already that ETNZ is in; it's a very far cry from their position approaching AC34 when they intentionally hid the fact they'd already entered, hid the fact they had even tried to be the first entry accepted, and to the detriment of the Event.

 

This time around it would be good to see ETNZ decisions, protests, arguments, shit-fighting, etc, be based on more on logic than on conspiracy theories and suspicion about ulterior motives that often-times simply don't exist. The prime example in AC34 being, obviously, IM's safety measures.

 

A fresh and open-minded step-back absolutely is a positive development if they are to not be blindered again.

 

As much as grumpy worked overtime for three straight years to undermine any and all aspects of AC34, I'd like to think he's been humbled by the comeback as well as the role local politics plays in his future, as his options in the AC as a professional are limited. At this point, exactly the same as I did at the beginning of AC34 which I'm sure few recall (take note nav), I'll give him the benefit of the doubt with the hope he takes a more professional approach to the event and leaves his personal issues and shit fights with RC somewhere else and out of the public eye. As a team dependent on sponsorship they can't serve his interests anyway.

 

I also don't think RC will tolerate the kind of crap he stirred up in AC34, as he's openly stated and which is likely the reason behind JS's criticism in his interview in which he simply fought fire with fire.

 

Time will tell.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wonderful to see ETNZ back in - we must get this Cup back in the Southern Hemisphere.

 

Despite Australia pulling out, continued uncertainty over venues and a weak Nationality rule, hope for a strong challenge and a return to the hey-days of Fremantle and Auckland.

 

Next best would be an Italian or British Victory, but it remains to be seen if they can mount a serious challenge to take the Cup in '17, especially in a venue with totally different conditions from SF...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

so... am I correct in saying that they're the first team to officially announce they are formally challenging?

 

or did someone else? I thought the other teams announcements were just sort of wishy washy statements with nothing concrete...

 

either way, nice jab at RC about "working with the other teams"

So who's CoR now?

Does it matter?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wonderful to see ETNZ back in - we must get this Cup back in the Southern Hemisphere.

 

Despite Australia pulling out, continued uncertainty over venues and a weak Nationality rule, hope for a strong challenge and a return to the hey-days of Fremantle and Auckland.

 

Next best would be an Italian or British Victory, but it remains to be seen if they can mount a serious challenge to take the Cup in '17, especially in a venue with totally different conditions from SF...

You know what you can have the cup now just show Coutts the money .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wonderful to see ETNZ back in - we must get this Cup back in the Southern Hemisphere.

 

Despite Australia pulling out, continued uncertainty over venues and a weak Nationality rule, hope for a strong challenge and a return to the hey-days of Fremantle and Auckland.

 

Next best would be an Italian or British Victory, but it remains to be seen if they can mount a serious challenge to take the Cup in '17, especially in a venue with totally different conditions from SF...

Glad to see you're weighing in after a long history of active interest.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ Trafficker, you clearly didn't follow that disaster as closely as some of is did. ETNZ had the right and won the protest, but they absolutely shot themselves in the foot by protesting the changes. They should have agreed them, it would have slowed Oracle down, and also improved safety as IM intended, but myopic hatred and mistrust blind sided their own decision-making.

 

It's also one thing to be and to act with class, versus to do so at every opportunity as shit-stirring assholes. They need to clean up their act, it would help everyone but especially themselves.

 

So far, so good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its rediculous how people jump on the Coutts Bandwagon about ETNZ being negative about the AC! Thats just Oracle's spin on the whole thing and people are taking it hook, line and sinker. Negativity... how?? By protesting?? By looking out for the best interests of their team and calling out the defender for rules infringements and protocol breaches which they were correct in pointing out?? For pointing out the expenses being overly rediculous, when in fact they are??

Emirates Team New Zealand CARRIED AC34. If it wasn't for ETNZ, there would've been no challenger series, as Luna Rossa only got involved in the circus after ETNZ offered them an information and design sharing deal, Artemis was a let down from the get-go. Grant Dalton was CORRECT in pointing out that the expenses were through the roof and was proved right again when the original CoR withdrew sighting high costs involved. Then it was Oracle who were busted for "spying" and penalised 5 sailing days (and rightly so) as it was in breach of the protocol. It was also Oracle who got busted "Cheating" and were penalised (and quite rightly so). Then ETNZ were quite within their rights to protest the "safety changes" to the class rule as it was again, a breach of the protocol, and was upheld. No one could've predicted what was going to come out of it. But at that time ETNZ had designed their boat according to the class rule. That change was (obviously) in breach of that rule. Now, if you were competing in a contest that was going to cost not only you, but your country hundreds of millions of dollars, and one of your competitors was breaching rules all over the place, how would you react?? I bet you wouldn't say, well we're not worried about winning, we're here cos its gonna be a great event. Russell just used that whole "negativity by Team NZ" spiel to hide the fact that he royally screwed the Americas Cup with his failure of a vision. This new vision has seen more harm to the event than good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its rediculous how people jump on the Coutts Bandwagon about ETNZ being negative about the AC! Thats just Oracle's spin on the whole thing and people are taking it hook, line and sinker. Negativity... how?? By protesting?? By looking out for the best interests of their team and calling out the defender for rules infringements and protocol breaches which they were correct in pointing out?? For pointing out the expenses being overly rediculous, when in fact they are??

Emirates Team New Zealand CARRIED AC34. If it wasn't for ETNZ, there would've been no challenger series, as Luna Rossa only got involved in the circus after ETNZ offered them an information and design sharing deal, Artemis was a let down from the get-go. Grant Dalton was CORRECT in pointing out that the expenses were through the roof and was proved right again when the original CoR withdrew sighting high costs involved. Then it was Oracle who were busted for "spying" and penalised 5 sailing days (and rightly so) as it was in breach of the protocol. It was also Oracle who got busted "Cheating" and were penalised (and quite rightly so). Then ETNZ were quite within their rights to protest the "safety changes" to the class rule as it was again, a breach of the protocol, and was upheld. No one could've predicted what was going to come out of it. But at that time ETNZ had designed their boat according to the class rule. That change was (obviously) in breach of that rule. Now, if you were competing in a contest that was going to cost not only you, but your country hundreds of millions of dollars, and one of your competitors was breaching rules all over the place, how would you react?? I bet you wouldn't say, well we're not worried about winning, we're here cos its gonna be a great event. Russell just used that whole "negativity by Team NZ" spiel to hide the fact that he royally screwed the Americas Cup with his failure of a vision. This new vision has seen more harm to the event than good.

But who won ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Its rediculous how people jump on the Coutts Bandwagon about ETNZ being negative about the AC! Thats just Oracle's spin on the whole thing and people are taking it hook, line and sinker. Negativity... how?? By protesting?? By looking out for the best interests of their team and calling out the defender for rules infringements and protocol breaches which they were correct in pointing out?? For pointing out the expenses being overly rediculous, when in fact they are??

Emirates Team New Zealand CARRIED AC34. If it wasn't for ETNZ, there would've been no challenger series, as Luna Rossa only got involved in the circus after ETNZ offered them an information and design sharing deal, Artemis was a let down from the get-go. Grant Dalton was CORRECT in pointing out that the expenses were through the roof and was proved right again when the original CoR withdrew sighting high costs involved. Then it was Oracle who were busted for "spying" and penalised 5 sailing days (and rightly so) as it was in breach of the protocol. It was also Oracle who got busted "Cheating" and were penalised (and quite rightly so). Then ETNZ were quite within their rights to protest the "safety changes" to the class rule as it was again, a breach of the protocol, and was upheld. No one could've predicted what was going to come out of it. But at that time ETNZ had designed their boat according to the class rule. That change was (obviously) in breach of that rule. Now, if you were competing in a contest that was going to cost not only you, but your country hundreds of millions of dollars, and one of your competitors was breaching rules all over the place, how would you react?? I bet you wouldn't say, well we're not worried about winning, we're here cos its gonna be a great event. Russell just used that whole "negativity by Team NZ" spiel to hide the fact that he royally screwed the Americas Cup with his failure of a vision. This new vision has seen more harm to the event than good.

But who won ?

So why all the negativity bs about ETNZ?? If you look at the OTUSA, Russell Coutts and Jimmy Spithill Facebook pages it sure looks like the pot calling the kettle black. The thing that pisses Russell and the Oracle fans off is... Oracle holds the Cup, but to the rest of the world, ETNZ are still seen as the best sailing team in the world.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Its rediculous how people jump on the Coutts Bandwagon about ETNZ being negative about the AC! Thats just Oracle's spin on the whole thing and people are taking it hook, line and sinker. Negativity... how?? By protesting?? By looking out for the best interests of their team and calling out the defender for rules infringements and protocol breaches which they were correct in pointing out?? For pointing out the expenses being overly rediculous, when in fact they are??

Emirates Team New Zealand CARRIED AC34. If it wasn't for ETNZ, there would've been no challenger series, as Luna Rossa only got involved in the circus after ETNZ offered them an information and design sharing deal, Artemis was a let down from the get-go. Grant Dalton was CORRECT in pointing out that the expenses were through the roof and was proved right again when the original CoR withdrew sighting high costs involved. Then it was Oracle who were busted for "spying" and penalised 5 sailing days (and rightly so) as it was in breach of the protocol. It was also Oracle who got busted "Cheating" and were penalised (and quite rightly so). Then ETNZ were quite within their rights to protest the "safety changes" to the class rule as it was again, a breach of the protocol, and was upheld. No one could've predicted what was going to come out of it. But at that time ETNZ had designed their boat according to the class rule. That change was (obviously) in breach of that rule. Now, if you were competing in a contest that was going to cost not only you, but your country hundreds of millions of dollars, and one of your competitors was breaching rules all over the place, how would you react?? I bet you wouldn't say, well we're not worried about winning, we're here cos its gonna be a great event. Russell just used that whole "negativity by Team NZ" spiel to hide the fact that he royally screwed the Americas Cup with his failure of a vision. This new vision has seen more harm to the event than good.

But who won ?

So why all the negativity bs about ETNZ?? If you look at the OTUSA, Russell Coutts and Jimmy Spithill Facebook pages it sure looks like the pot calling the kettle black. The thing that pisses Russell and the Oracle fans off is... Oracle holds the Cup, but to the rest of the world, ETNZ are still seen as the best sailing team in the world.

 

If you of all posters say so it must surely be true. Did you poll the whole world ? If so why don't they have the cup to prove it ? A minor hole in your story.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

Its rediculous how people jump on the Coutts Bandwagon about ETNZ being negative about the AC! Thats just Oracle's spin on the whole thing and people are taking it hook, line and sinker. Negativity... how?? By protesting?? By looking out for the best interests of their team and calling out the defender for rules infringements and protocol breaches which they were correct in pointing out?? For pointing out the expenses being overly rediculous, when in fact they are??

Emirates Team New Zealand CARRIED AC34. If it wasn't for ETNZ, there would've been no challenger series, as Luna Rossa only got involved in the circus after ETNZ offered them an information and design sharing deal, Artemis was a let down from the get-go. Grant Dalton was CORRECT in pointing out that the expenses were through the roof and was proved right again when the original CoR withdrew sighting high costs involved. Then it was Oracle who were busted for "spying" and penalised 5 sailing days (and rightly so) as it was in breach of the protocol. It was also Oracle who got busted "Cheating" and were penalised (and quite rightly so). Then ETNZ were quite within their rights to protest the "safety changes" to the class rule as it was again, a breach of the protocol, and was upheld. No one could've predicted what was going to come out of it. But at that time ETNZ had designed their boat according to the class rule. That change was (obviously) in breach of that rule. Now, if you were competing in a contest that was going to cost not only you, but your country hundreds of millions of dollars, and one of your competitors was breaching rules all over the place, how would you react?? I bet you wouldn't say, well we're not worried about winning, we're here cos its gonna be a great event. Russell just used that whole "negativity by Team NZ" spiel to hide the fact that he royally screwed the Americas Cup with his failure of a vision. This new vision has seen more harm to the event than good.

But who won ?

So why all the negativity bs about ETNZ?? If you look at the OTUSA, Russell Coutts and Jimmy Spithill Facebook pages it sure looks like the pot calling the kettle black. The thing that pisses Russell and the Oracle fans off is... Oracle holds the Cup, but to the rest of the world, ETNZ are still seen as the best sailing team in the world.

 

If you of all posters say so it must surely be true. Did you poll the whole world ? If so why don't they have the cup to prove it ? A minor hole in your story.

So when its all said and done, after all the shit talking about GD being negative and Team NZ shit stirring and being detrimental to the AC...Russell, Jimmy and OTUSA can break rules, they can sling shit about Team NZ, they can (publicly) suggest that the Team NZ management is incompetent, and suggest others who could run it better, they can post sarcastic comments on social media about them, then disinvite them to a competitors meeting, yet its ok because they won the thing.

Grant Dalton can stick up for his team and be proven right about everything he's said so far, but they're being negative and detrimental to the event. How does that work??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...

Grant Dalton can stick up for his team and be proven right about everything he's said so far, but they're being negative and detrimental to the event. How does that work??

Because he keeps on losing it time after time...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

SC Clarke, you must be the bigesst delusional twat on the planet.

 

If you think ETNZ is the best sailing team in the world then why have ETNZ never won the AC?

 

The best sailing team in the world over that last 14 yers is every team Russell coutts has been involved in.

 

Etnz have won bugger all considering the money spent and the regattas/events entered.

 

Most Kiwis are embarrassed by ETNZ continual chokeing at the big events.

 

One day you will realize the stupidity of you myopic stance.... but probably you will realise when they fail for a fourth time.... and they will!... you can quote me on that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Stinger, you are right, I don't know what you are referring to here:

...but they absolutely shot themselves in the foot by protesting the changes. They should have agreed them, it would have slowed Oracle down...

 

I guess depending on which team you are backing, you see things differently. What you as an OTUSA supporter saw as shit stirring, ETNZ supporters saw as the underdog sticking up for themselves. What ETNZ supporters saw as flagrant cheating and possibly a lenient penalty, OTUSA supporters saw as the world ganging up on them unfairly. etc. etc....

 

I can see that ETNZ could and should have risen above it all rather than get the media into every little tin can. But the way the challenge and regatta was run left much to be desired, then and now, and OTUSA were the architects of their own misfortune in this regard. Why have we had the RC and JS facebook / media release dog and pony show dissing ETNZ, and the ignoring of any dissenting viewpoints to this edition?

 

Can you agree that OTUSA and RC have not been the fair, angelic and untainted defender, both then and now, they try to make themselves out to be?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agreed, how can passionate support for your team and a commitment to fair competition be interpreted as negativity - trolling thru different sock puppets with a single hate message now that is something positive!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agreed, how can passionate support for your team and a commitment to fair competition be interpreted as negativity - trolling thru different sock puppets with a single hate message now that is something positive!

 

Interesting that other AC34 'competitors' seem to be closer to sclarke's position than the sock puppets....

 

So you go forward 160 some odd years to the current day and what you have are a couple people with unlimited money that don’t really care about the rules; they just want to try to win the thing to say that they’ve won it. Leading that is Larry Ellison. He can throw as much money at it and tilt the [game] as hard in his favor as he possibly can to win. And that’s basically what he’s done.

 

The fool’s side of it is you then have a team that is commercially funded - like team New Zealand - and they have to go out and sell the event; they have to sell it to sponsors and they’re government funded so they have to answer to the tax-payers of New Zealand. It’s monumentally slanted towards the defender.

 

http://www.maxim.com/sports/can-sailing-be-the-next-f1

 

Just Grant - yeah right...

 

Stingray can repeat his revisionist tract forever - with his indian echo chamber doing backing vocals - won't fool many though

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm happy they're back, for big several reasons but including for how good an interview GD is. Am not at all suggesting he not be candid but am definitely suggesting that there was a lot of shit-stirring from out of that camp, for three years, against any and all targets, over-amplified by some crazy NZ zealots, such that GD probably would find a re-think healthy over it.

 

My prime example was the 6 weeks-long Safety Measures ugly shit-fight that needn't have been entered into; the character assassinations and insinuations were especially nasty and personal against IM but they went even beyond that too. That's just one example.

 

Name another team that had that much mess surrounding them. It could be a lot cleaner, while still being honest and entertaining.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Name another team that has been as competitive..

 

The mess is in your mind, or being created by the administrators of the city and the AC in the US, you don't like them being called on it - we get it, just clean that shit up. Put sailing as a sport first and foremost and lets see how that works out for everyone

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ Obviously they are, overall, the most successful team since the 90's. It's an AC Tradition unparalleled in the modern era. And they VERY nearly won AC34.

 

But the mess I am referring to is not in my mind, it's the big one that's been generated from out of NZ circles, and particularly so during AC34.

 

I just don't see any benefit to anyone by it; least of all to ETNZ since they come off looking like assholes, the media gets sour on anything AC, the public does too, and even politicians have to react. It also hurts the event, which I simply can't see as being a benefit to ETNZ either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

SC Clarke, you must be the bigesst delusional twat on the planet.

 

If you think ETNZ is the best sailing team in the world then why have ETNZ never won the AC?

 

The best sailing team in the world over that last 14 yers is every team Russell coutts has been involved in.

 

Etnz have won bugger all considering the money spent and the regattas/events entered.

 

Most Kiwis are embarrassed by ETNZ continual chokeing at the big events.

 

One day you will realize the stupidity of you myopic stance.... but probably you will realise when they fail for a fourth time.... and they will!... you can quote me on that.

And you're an unbelievably single minded Dumbass!! Look at the results over the last, say 10 years. Oracle Team USA (BMW Oracle Team USA) vs Emirates Team New Zealands results across the board. Lets see...2007 Louis Vuitton cup winners, 2009 Louis Vuitton Pacific Series Champions, 2010/ 2011 Two time Audi Med cup champions, 2010 Louis Vuitton trophy overall winners (Against iternational teams) Extreme Sailing Series Boston 2010 champions, 2011/ 2012 Volvo Ocean race runner up with Camper, 2013 introduction of foiling to the AC, Louis Vuitton Cup winners, and very nearly winning the Americas Cup. Other than a mis matched one sided series against Alinghi in 2010 and the last AC "Comeback" Oracle has achieved nothing. And you're gonna say...well no other sailing regatta matters, well try telling that to the worlds best sailors competing around the world and they'll tell you you're an idiot!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And you're an unbelievably single minded Dumbass!! Look at the results over the last, say 10 years. Oracle Team USA (BMW Oracle Team USA) vs Emirates Team New Zealands results across the board. Lets see...2007 Louis Vuitton cup winners, 2009 Louis Vuitton Pacific Series Champions, 2010/ 2011 Two time Audi Med cup champions, 2010 Louis Vuitton trophy overall winners (Against iternational teams) Extreme Sailing Series Boston 2010 champions, 2011/ 2012 Volvo Ocean race runner up with Camper, 2013 introduction of foiling to the AC, Louis Vuitton Cup winners, and very nearly winning the Americas Cup. Other than a mis matched one sided series against Alinghi in 2010 and the last AC "Comeback" Oracle has achieved nothing. And you're gonna say...well no other sailing regatta matters, well try telling that to the worlds best sailors competing around the world and they'll tell you you're an idiot!!

 

Don't forget the ACWS. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can't believe you guys are still talking about this. OTUSA outsailed ETNZ, they were the better sailors with ultimately the faster boat. If they had got the same performance right out of the box they would have whitewashed ETNZ. In the end the results make ETNZ look better than they really were.

Sorry to all the Kiwis for wasting all that money and emotion, I was pulling for you but the end result was the correct result.

I saw every single practice, catastrophe and race first hand and close up, it was a great spectacle and I wish it were to be repeated. But it's nice to have the Bay to ourselves once again and business is way up from last year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can't believe you guys are still talking about this. OTUSA outsailed ETNZ, they were the better sailors with ultimately the faster boat. If they had got the same performance right out of the box they would have whitewashed ETNZ. In the end the results make ETNZ look better than they really were.

Sorry to all the Kiwis for wasting all that money and emotion, I was pulling for you but the end result was the correct result.

I saw every single practice, catastrophe and race first hand and close up, it was a great spectacle and I wish it were to be repeated. But it's nice to have the Bay to ourselves once again and business is way up from last year.

Out sailed? No. Out spent and Out designed? Yes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

sC Clark. You are indeed a Muppet of extraordinary proportions.

 

Money has nothing to do with poor sailing and tactical decisions!

 

Also when you break down the differences between 0racle ETNZ the difference is just a couple of hundred thousand dollars. Yip! The hulks and rigs and crew were very even and it came down to foil control, skippers, and the way management adapted when the heat was on.

 

If money benefitted Oracle then why did ETNZ have a competitive boat and nearly win?

 

sC Clark, you have know idea what you are talking about. Better decisions, better managment and better sailimg won the cup for Oracle! Not more money.

 

But you keep making piss poor excuses for your chokers....

 

And standby for another choke in four years time. The same muppets are doing the same thing....

 

And the results will be the same!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

sC Clark. You are indeed a Muppet of extraordinary proportions.

 

Money has nothing to do with poor sailing and tactical decisions!

 

Also when you break down the differences between 0racle ETNZ the difference is just a couple of hundred thousand dollars. Yip! The hulls and rigs and crew were very even and it came down to foil control, skippers, and the way management adapted when the heat was on.

 

If money benefitted Oracle then why did ETNZ have a competitive boat and nearly win?

 

sC Clark, you have know idea what you are talking about. Better decisions, better managment and better sailimg won the cup for Oracle! Not more money.

 

But you keep making piss poor excuses for your chokers....

 

And standby for another choke in four years time. The same muppets are doing the same thing....

 

And the results will be the same!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

sC Clark. You are indeed a Muppet of extraordinary proportions.

 

Money has nothing to do with poor sailing and tactical decisions!

 

Also when you break down the differences between 0racle ETNZ the difference is just a couple of hundred thousand dollars. Yip! The hulls and rigs and crew were very even and it came down to foil control, skippers, and the way management adapted when the heat was on.

 

If money benefitted Oracle then why did ETNZ have a competitive boat and nearly win?

 

sC Clark, you have know idea what you are talking about. Better decisions, better managment and better sailimg won the cup for Oracle! Not more money.

 

But you keep making piss poor excuses for your chokers....

 

And standby for another choke in four years time. The same muppets are doing the same thing....

 

And the results will be the same!

Hahaha you're a F***khead aren't ya! I guess nothing anyone says is gonna make you think like an adult (you are an adult right??) You're just gonna push your pointless, broken record, choker crap with absolutely nothing with any meaning at all to back it up. You're like Ban Ki Moon and his UN condeming the fighting around the world and expecting the world to listen because he condems it. No one cares what you have to say.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ETNZ have won some and they have lost some. There for a while they were winning in everything they tried, TP52's, etc.

 

No doubt they have had a successful track record over the last decade or so. GD likes to ruffle the feathers. He has to keep the NZ government and supporters happy, not the rest of us. At least we can tell he is not a sock puppet for anyone that helps, EB and LE helped keep them afloat, in different ways, but GD is not bashful to gig either one when it works in his favor.

 

So........what's the big deal?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ETNZ have won some and they have lost some. There for a while they were winning in everything they tried, TP52's, etc.

 

No doubt they have had a successful track record over the last decade or so. GD likes to ruffle the feathers. He has to keep the NZ government and supporters happy, not the rest of us. At least we can tell he is not a sock puppet for anyone that helps, EB and LE helped keep them afloat, in different ways, but GD is not bashful to gig either one when it works in his favor.

 

So........what's the big deal?

 

You're making sense... Go away.

 

 

:D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Radio Sport at 1pm Sunday

 

 

Morning guys : Dean Barker and Kevin Shoebridge from Team NZ in studio at 1.... Taking your questions.. You haven't had a chance to chat with Dean for some time. Lots of issues to cover off.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Barker: "TNZ design has already come a long way since SF". 48 team members with 17 in design side.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Got a better link to the replay?

 

Nice that they are gearing up big but that LR program has the huge jump on everyone - their program must have 80 people already operational.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Got a better link to the replay?

 

Nice that they are gearing up big but that LR program has the huge jump on everyone - their program must have 80 people already operational.

No link posted yet.

 

Don't agree LR has a 'huge jump', or any kind of jump. Considering they've yet to design an AC foiler for themselves, I'd say they've a bit of catching up to do. Interestingly, TNZ say they're happy with their design programme re-set and believe they may be on to the next breakthrough.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Got a better link to the replay?

 

Nice that they are gearing up big but that LR program has the huge jump on everyone - their program must have 80 people already operational.

No link posted yet.

 

Don't agree LR has a 'huge jump', or any kind of jump. Considering they've yet to design an AC foiler for themselves, I'd say they've a bit of catching up to do. Interestingly, TNZ say they're happy with their design programme re-set and believe they may be on to the next breakthrough.

How can they have a breakthrough yet? They don't even know where the race is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

Got a better link to the replay?

 

Nice that they are gearing up big but that LR program has the huge jump on everyone - their program must have 80 people already operational.

No link posted yet.

 

Don't agree LR has a 'huge jump', or any kind of jump. Considering they've yet to design an AC foiler for themselves, I'd say they've a bit of catching up to do. Interestingly, TNZ say they're happy with their design programme re-set and believe they may be on to the next breakthrough.

How can they have a breakthrough yet? They don't even know where the race is.

Ha, ha. So you think SD or that Island won't have enough wind for foiling? Or maybe you're thinking lead mines still? :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Peter Burling & Blair Tuke continue their unbeaten run since the London Olympics in 2012. Another gold medal in the Olympic test sailing event in Rio

 

Burling and Tuke win gold at Rio test event
Emirates Team New Zealand sailors Peter Burling and Blair Tuke have won gold in the 49er class at the Olympic Sailing Test Event at Rio de Janiero.
Three solid races on the last day broke an overnight points tie with the French pair, to take the title by eight points. Australians Nathan Outteridge and Iain Jensen came through for the silver and Alain Sign and Dylan Fletcher (GBR) pushed out the French for a podium finish.
The win continues the Burling-Tuke clean sweep of all the major Olympic 49er class regattas they’ve contested since winning Olympic silver in 2012.
Burling said: “We’ve been on a pretty good streak at the moment and we’re pleased to keep that going. We spent a bit of time learning the conditions in Rio and didn’t get an ideal build up. We’re happy to come away from those tricky conditions with a win.
“We felt that the luck went around and that everybody got lucky and unlucky on occasions so we’re happy with the day.”
Burling said: “We’ve been doing a lot of racing this year in pretty big fleets at Palma, Hyeres and the Europeans. This was the first time we’ve got down to an Olympic sized [fleet] and that was one of the positives of the week. It was really good to win in that right size and depth of fleet.”

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Got a better link to the replay?

 

Nice that they are gearing up big but that LR program has the huge jump on everyone - their program must have 80 people already operational.

http://www.newstalk.co.nz/auckland/listen-on-demand/audio/324333926-dean-barker---kevin-shoebridge--team-nz-update

Thank you. 'Blame Game' Veitchy was trolling a little but it's a pretty good segment there by DB and KS.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

^

 

From S-W:

 

"The internal Review process that the Team has undergone since the America's Cup is also discussed. It seems that there were mistakes made but about 12-18 months out from the America's cup. "

 

What would that be?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From what I recall the comment was made at that time as the window for key design decisions with the second boat had closed - comments along the lines of if they got it right or not, whatever "it" was, possibly the hull design.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From what I recall the comment was made at that time as the window for key design decisions with the second boat had closed - comments along the lines of if they got it right or not, whatever "it" was, possibly the hull design.

Yes, they both referred to decisions made even during the final weeks but KS made a point of reiterating DB's point-back to the ones made 12-18 months before. And in almost the same sentence, KS spoke about how OR had 'untapped potential' that they had (just barely) time enough to take advantage of, to turn things around at the very end.

 

The discussion by both of them when asked about lessons learned was overall good material, including for how radically different the departmental input would have been if taken just a week before the Match finished, or if taken after they'd won (and despite the same process- or instinct-based decisions that would still have already been made), but especially for KS's comment that publicly releasing a full 'accounting' would be akin to just giving away the playbook's crown jewels for how to run an even better campaign.

 

It's a really good interview, worth a re-listen. Thanks again, Rennie, for locating that link even before Sail-World did - by the timing they likely saw it from your much sooner post here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From what I recall the comment was made at that time as the window for key design decisions with the second boat had closed - comments along the lines of if they got it right or not, whatever "it" was, possibly the hull design.

ET was ultimately slower to windward. Not sure anybody has put their finger on why, but foil control and wing appear likely suspects.

 

They couldn't do the beast mode.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Aerodynamics and foil geometry had major influence on OR's ability to foil upwind. The more "L" shaped foils of Oracle's were more difficult to control than the more "V" oriented TNZ foils. But, when in the groove they allowed less leeway and drag. TNZ's were more user friendly. But, Oracle's had more to give if you had the right balance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And the Herbie really made all the difference just ask Nav.

Just like Herbie Veitchy suggested: the alien technology was clearly injected during a secret $600M late night visit to Area 51.

 

I'm sure Herbie Nav can fill us all in on the big-green-eyed, three-fingered details?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^^

Probably all true - but Mr. M also stated the deeper curve of the TNZ foil allowed lift to be carried further to leeward upwind.

 

This should have given ET more power upwind. But yes - they failed to foil.

 

So perhaps getting the board outboard was less effective than giving up some righting moment in favor of foiling efficiency.

 

But my understanding is that the straighter L could only be balanced upon with finer rake adjustment plus constant trim of the main: Beast Mode.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And the Herbie really made all the difference just ask Nav.

 

They had to have the sophisticated computer (brain) automated (springs) Herbie control system developed secretly by the aerodynamics industry with DARPA funding as they did away with their training wheels when the real racing started.

 

Although Herbie has been thoroughly explained in detail and illustrated in several diagrams by multiple people directly involved and those that have researched it at great length, nav is not buying any of it until Stingray explains it.

 

That's how much he regards his posts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Shoebridge: "We ran out of time."

 

 

What a load of shit.

 

That interview is disgusting.

 

ETNZ should be gutted.

 

 

Dean sounds defeated already.

fishing-clip-art-3.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Barker always sounds defeated. I wonder why?...

 

 

Oh! Thats right.... because he is always defeated.

 

Hard to look like a winner when youre a loser!

 

I hope they keep him and Dalts on! This will insure the cup does not go down under.

 

Funny how winners are grinner... just look at jimmy, Ben and Russ!.... just awesome confident winners

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Barker always sounds defeated. I wonder why?...

 

 

Oh! Thats right.... because he is always defeated.

 

Hard to look like a winner when youre a loser!

 

I hope they keep him and Dalts on! This will insure the cup does not go down under.

 

Funny how winners are grinner... just look at jimmy, Ben and Russ!.... just awesome confident winners

Don't forget, Dean has been there before. And no one can take that away from him.

dean.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Shoebridge "we ran out of time".

 

I was confused by what he meant? Was he referring to having to lock in the design a year earlier?

Surely, he wasn't referring to the end of the actual racing when more time was their worst enemy?

 

Maybe its just a chant burned into his brain because of race 13

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Barker always sounds defeated. I wonder why?...

 

 

Oh! Thats right.... because he is always defeated.

 

Hard to look like a winner when youre a loser!

 

I hope they keep him and Dalts on! This will insure the cup does not go down under.

 

Funny how winners are grinner... just look at jimmy, Ben and Russ!.... just awesome confident winners

 

Titanic Anus has spoken.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Shoebridge "we ran out of time".

 

I was confused by what he meant? Was he referring to having to lock in the design a year earlier?

Surely, he wasn't referring to the end of the actual racing when more time was their worst enemy?

 

Maybe its just a chant burned into his brain because of race 13

Perhaps he meant that they only needed another 15 to 20 min to win the cup, when they ran out of time because of that ridiculous time limit business... else they would've won, and everyone would be celebrating the crushing defeat of Oracles technical genius'....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He may have been referring to that R13 but the bigger 'running out of time' picture he was referring to may have been about not winning the last point necessary to win the Cup before Oracle had time to turn things around.

 

Because, as we all know, once OR put Herbie and His automatic ride height autopilot system's Area 51 alien technology brain on board, well the other guys on board OR could all just kick back, put their feet up, and relax. It was all just late summer fun once Herbie took over.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Indeed yes!

 

Dean takes the glory for all Russ's and Brads hard work sailing TNZ to a win!

 

Dean has always ridden on the coat tails of winners.

 

ACClark, in the background of that photo is the sailor that defended the cup, that year, but look at Deans smile after Russells hard work.

 

nothing has changed except one thing! Dean still plays "second fiddle' to Russ but he has not smiled like that since then!

 

in fact Dean is starting to look like Dalton!.... a long drawn out grumpy loser look!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Indeed yes!

 

Dean takes the glory for all Russ's and Brads hard work sailing TNZ to a win!

 

Dean has always ridden on the coat tails of winners.

 

ACClark, in the background of that photo is the sailor that defended the cup, that year, but look at Deans smile after Russells hard work.

 

nothing has changed except one thing! Dean still plays "second fiddle' to Russ but he has not smiled like that since then!

 

in fact Dean is starting to look like Dalton!.... a long drawn out grumpy loser look!

He who sails over the line in the final race, wins the Cup. Dean crossed the finish line in the final race of Americas Cup 2000. He was the winning helmsman, he won the Cup and held it high that day. No matter what you say...Dean is an Americas Cup WINNER. Thats it. End of story. By the way, Jimmy hasn't done this yet:

vuittoncupwin.jpg?w=620&h=349&crop=1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After AC32 I was left with the impression that the AC would of been better off if ETNZ won. I have the same impression after seeing the debacle AC35 is turning into.

 

So I am hoping the 3rd time is the charm. I won't be running out to buy ETNZ gear and a tractor anytime soon, but a part of me will be rooting for ETNZ to win in the hopes they get the Cup back to what it should be. A sailing competition with a nationality theme contested in the DEFENDERS home waters.

 

If they go back to monos, so be it. But ETNZ is the only trustee active that has a grounded sense of what the Cup is and should be.

 

WetHog

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Indeed yes!

 

Dean takes the glory for all Russ's and Brads hard work sailing TNZ to a win!

 

Dean has always ridden on the coat tails of winners.

 

ACClark, in the background of that photo is the sailor that defended the cup, that year, but look at Deans smile after Russells hard work.

 

nothing has changed except one thing! Dean still plays "second fiddle' to Russ but he has not smiled like that since then!

 

in fact Dean is starting to look like Dalton!.... a long drawn out grumpy loser look!

He who sails over the line in the final race, wins the Cup. Dean crossed the finish line in the final race of Americas Cup 2000. He was the winning helmsman, he won the Cup and held it high that day. No matter what you say...Dean is an Americas Cup WINNER. Thats it. End of story. By the way, Jimmy hasn't done this yet:

vuittoncupwin.jpg?w=620&h=349&crop=1

 

I guess then, by your logic, Tarvarius Jackson won the Superbowl for the Seattle Seahawks...

 

Sure, Russell Wilson did all the heavy lifting through the season and the playoffs, played deep into the 4th quarter and had his team up 43-8, but Jackson took them across the finish line...

 

I'm pretty sure with the boat and crew TNZ had for that defense, I could have helmed the final race and won it...

 

Coutts won that America's Cup and graciously gave an up-and-coming Barker a moment of glory that he hasn't replicated since... Barker's record in America's Cup final match races stands at 11-21... He is 1-0 when Russell Coutts hands him a well-oiled machine, top flight crew and a beaten down opponent. He is 10-21 when he has to tune the boat, lead the crew and beat down the opponent on his own...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After AC32 I was left with the impression that the AC would of been better off if ETNZ won. I have the same impression after seeing the debacle AC35 is turning into.

 

So I am hoping the 3rd time is the charm. I won't be running out to buy ETNZ gear and a tractor anytime soon, but a part of me will be rooting for ETNZ to win in the hopes they get the Cup back to what it should be. A sailing competition with a nationality theme contested in the DEFENDERS home waters.

 

If they go back to monos, so be it. But ETNZ is the only trustee active that has a grounded sense of what the Cup is and should be.

 

WetHog

 

I really thought with OR retaining the Cup and all the lessons learned that the AC35 would have been a much better organzied event. So far - not so good.

 

 

With ETNZ winning, we would be looking at AC 72's again (ocean going however). No wind upper limit, only lower. 6 NM legs. Upwind starts. No course boundaries. First to 5 wins. The venue would be Auckland held in 2017. The year before the Cup would begin the overall challenger selection series, probably 2 to 3 venues max with the LVC in Auckland as well.

 

Probably looking at twice as many entries.

 

Oh well......There's always next time, or is there?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...

 

 

With ETNZ winning, we would be looking at AC 72's again (ocean going however). No wind upper limit, only lower. 6 NM legs. Upwind starts. No course boundaries. First to 5 wins. The venue would be Auckland held in 2017. The year before the Cup would begin the overall challenger selection series, probably 2 to 3 venues max with the LVC in Auckland as well.

 

Probably looking at twice as many entries.

...

 

I really wonder where you get this kind of fantasy from...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds good, Enzedel, but I don't see the need for "ocean going" AC72's. Of all the IACC boats that sailed the Hauraki Gulf for AC30 and AC31 I wouldn't classify any as "ocean going". :lol:

 

fcifx4.jpg

 

WetHog :ph34r:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds good, Enzedel, but I don't see the need for "ocean going" AC72's. Of all the IACC boats that sailed the Hauraki Gulf for AC30 and AC31 I wouldn't classify any as "ocean going". :lol:

 

fcifx4.jpg

 

WetHog :ph34r:

Mast jack run amok? :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds good, Enzedel, but I don't see the need for "ocean going" AC72's. Of all the IACC boats that sailed the Hauraki Gulf for AC30 and AC31 I wouldn't classify any as "ocean going". :lol:

 

fcifx4.jpg

 

WetHog :ph34r:

 

Good stuff...

 

Enzedel 82 mast snapping. Fun times!

 

roguewave.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Sounds good, Enzedel, but I don't see the need for "ocean going" AC72's. Of all the IACC boats that sailed the Hauraki Gulf for AC30 and AC31 I wouldn't classify any as "ocean going". :lol:

 

fcifx4.jpg

 

WetHog :ph34r:

 

Good stuff...

 

Enzedel 82 mast snapping. Fun times!

 

roguewave.gif

Oh dear. Another one of those unforgettable TNZ moments.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Sounds good, Enzedel, but I don't see the need for "ocean going" AC72's. Of all the IACC boats that sailed the Hauraki Gulf for AC30 and AC31 I wouldn't classify any as "ocean going". :lol:

 

 

WetHog :ph34r:

 

Good stuff...

 

Enzedel 82 mast snapping. Fun times!

 

roguewave.gif

Oh dear. Another one of those unforgettable TNZ moments.

With the unforgettable yell from one of the crew 'this f**king boat!"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

WELL SAID BRUTAL!

 

rUS AND BRAD HAD ALREADY WON THE CUP!

and they gave the boy a chance.

 

pity the boy still has not evolved to win anything since that race.

 

and the LV cup does not count as a AC win..... well?.... only in 15 year old S Clarkes blurred eyes.

 

it ok S Clark. we understand your continual disappointment and your obsessive loyalty to a team of chokers. good on ya mate!

 

One day you will come to the realization that you were wrong and your blind loyalty was misplaced.

 

probably this will happen around puberty.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Sounds good, Enzedel, but I don't see the need for "ocean going" AC72's. Of all the IACC boats that sailed the Hauraki Gulf for AC30 and AC31 I wouldn't classify any as "ocean going". :lol:

 

fcifx4.jpg

 

WetHog :ph34r:

Mast jack run amok? :)

is it just me or does that mast look like it took a few too many 'roid shots? its looks ridiculously chunky... perhaps it simply pile-drivered its way into the deck? hahaha

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

Sounds good, Enzedel, but I don't see the need for "ocean going" AC72's. Of all the IACC boats that sailed the Hauraki Gulf for AC30 and AC31 I wouldn't classify any as "ocean going". :lol:

 

fcifx4.jpg

 

WetHog :ph34r:

Mast jack run amok? :)
is it just me or does that mast look like it took a few too many 'roid shots? its looks ridiculously chunky... perhaps it simply pile-drivered its way into the deck? hahaha

Yeah that was the problem they tried a funky huge mast section. Bent the boat around it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Indeed yes!

 

Dean takes the glory for all Russ's and Brads hard work sailing TNZ to a win!

 

Dean has always ridden on the coat tails of winners.

 

ACClark, in the background of that photo is the sailor that defended the cup, that year, but look at Deans smile after Russells hard work.

 

nothing has changed except one thing! Dean still plays "second fiddle' to Russ but he has not smiled like that since then!

 

in fact Dean is starting to look like Dalton!.... a long drawn out grumpy loser look!

He who sails over the line in the final race, wins the Cup. Dean crossed the finish line in the final race of Americas Cup 2000. He was the winning helmsman, he won the Cup and held it high that day. No matter what you say...Dean is an Americas Cup WINNER. Thats it. End of story. By the way, Jimmy hasn't done this yet:

vuittoncupwin.jpg?w=620&h=349&crop=1

 

I guess then, by your logic, Tarvarius Jackson won the Superbowl for the Seattle Seahawks...

 

Sure, Russell Wilson did all the heavy lifting through the season and the playoffs, played deep into the 4th quarter and had his team up 43-8, but Jackson took them across the finish line...

 

I'm pretty sure with the boat and crew TNZ had for that defense, I could have helmed the final race and won it...

 

Coutts won that America's Cup and graciously gave an up-and-coming Barker a moment of glory that he hasn't replicated since... Barker's record in America's Cup final match races stands at 11-21... He is 1-0 when Russell Coutts hands him a well-oiled machine, top flight crew and a beaten down opponent. He is 10-21 when he has to tune the boat, lead the crew and beat down the opponent on his own...

Coutts did win that Americas Cup, I never once said he didn't. He was part of the TEAM that defended the Cup. It wasn't Team Russell Coutts, it was Team New Zealand!! A team which Dean was a part of. Russell DID NOT beat Prada i Race 5, Dean did. Dean is an Americas Cup winner. Who gives a crap wether he's done it since. A statement was made by Semen or finger titan his own anus, or whoever he pretends to be, that Dean had NEVER won an Americas Cup. The record books beg to differ. And yes, if you're part of a winning team, you're a winner.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

Indeed yes!

 

Dean takes the glory for all Russ's and Brads hard work sailing TNZ to a win!

 

Dean has always ridden on the coat tails of winners.

 

ACClark, in the background of that photo is the sailor that defended the cup, that year, but look at Deans smile after Russells hard work.

 

nothing has changed except one thing! Dean still plays "second fiddle' to Russ but he has not smiled like that since then!

 

in fact Dean is starting to look like Dalton!.... a long drawn out grumpy loser look!

He who sails over the line in the final race, wins the Cup. Dean crossed the finish line in the final race of Americas Cup 2000. He was the winning helmsman, he won the Cup and held it high that day. No matter what you say...Dean is an Americas Cup WINNER. Thats it. End of story. By the way, Jimmy hasn't done this yet:

vuittoncupwin.jpg?w=620&h=349&crop=1

 

I guess then, by your logic, Tarvarius Jackson won the Superbowl for the Seattle Seahawks...

 

Sure, Russell Wilson did all the heavy lifting through the season and the playoffs, played deep into the 4th quarter and had his team up 43-8, but Jackson took them across the finish line...

 

I'm pretty sure with the boat and crew TNZ had for that defense, I could have helmed the final race and won it...

 

Coutts won that America's Cup and graciously gave an up-and-coming Barker a moment of glory that he hasn't replicated since... Barker's record in America's Cup final match races stands at 11-21... He is 1-0 when Russell Coutts hands him a well-oiled machine, top flight crew and a beaten down opponent. He is 10-21 when he has to tune the boat, lead the crew and beat down the opponent on his own...

Coutts did win that Americas Cup, I never once said he didn't. He was part of the TEAM that defended the Cup. It wasn't Team Russell Coutts, it was Team New Zealand!! A team which Dean was a part of. Russell DID NOT beat Prada i Race 5, Dean did. Dean is an Americas Cup winner. Who gives a crap wether he's done it since. A statement was made by Semen or finger titan his own anus, or whoever he pretends to be, that Dean had NEVER won an Americas Cup. The record books beg to differ. And yes, if you're part of a winning team, you're a winner.

 

Fair enough, as part of Russell Coutts' TNZ in 2000, Dean Barker did win an AC. That fact can not be disputed.

 

However, since assuming the title of Skipper, he has failed to lead the team to an AC win. He makes a great argument as a bridesmaid, but he never quite gets to the altar on his own merit. You can blame time limits, wind limits, a faulty mast, a flooded cockpit, a failed experimental hull appendage, the defection of TNZ's top talent to Switzerland or anything else you'd like. As Skipper of TNZ/ETNZ's America's Cup team, he lost the AC to Alinghi (0-5) in 2003, failed to win it back against Alinghi (2-5) in 2007 and blew what appeared to be an insurmountable lead (8-1) against Oracle Team USA only to lose 9-8. Don't forget that Oracle had to win 11 of the 19 races to score their 9 points, including the final 7 in a row...

 

To your point, Dean Barker is an America's Cup winner, but it's safe to say that as an America's Cup Skipper, he's been a failure...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wouldn't call DB a failure just like I wouldn't call Dan Marino a failure for never winning a SB, same with Jim Kelly.

 

Sure DB has never won the Cup as skipper, but every Cup cycle he skippered a team he made the Cup match and was in a position to win it, twice. Disappointing results, but hardly failures.

 

WetHog

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites