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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

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The Frog

New Ran

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That's like suggesting that the first person to draw a monohull with a pointy bow and single mast should charge.

 

Sexy looking boat though.

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Man, that rudder is a long way forward. That's assuming the tiller is directly connected to the rudder shaft, there maybe a linkage with a bit of leverage....

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Man, that rudder is a long way forward. That's assuming the tiller is directly connected to the rudder shaft, there maybe a linkage with a bit of leverage....

 

Looks like the rudder tube is at about the second stanchion forward here:

http://jrenedo.photoshelter.com/gallery-image/JV72-2014-RAN/G0000.d3wzRnKeVo/I0000FE9SSaHzi0o/C00002bhm6O2yr.E

much the same place as the tiller?

http://jrenedo.photoshelter.com/gallery-image/JV72-2014-RAN/G0000.d3wzRnKeVo/I00001ixiO44vONM/C00002bhm6O2yr.E

 

Niklas has spent the winter in the gym, then? Bench press, seated rowing and lots of pilates?

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well..."on a boat with a wide transom and a single rudder, the rudder has to be very far forward to stay in water ...." from current seahorse. Nice coincident, the article and this tread.

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Man, that rudder is a long way forward. That's assuming the tiller is directly connected to the rudder shaft, there maybe a linkage with a bit of leverage....

 

Looks like the rudder tube is at about the second stanchion forward here:

http://jrenedo.photoshelter.com/gallery-image/JV72-2014-RAN/G0000.d3wzRnKeVo/I0000FE9SSaHzi0o/C00002bhm6O2yr.E

much the same place as the tiller?

http://jrenedo.photoshelter.com/gallery-image/JV72-2014-RAN/G0000.d3wzRnKeVo/I00001ixiO44vONM/C00002bhm6O2yr.E

 

Niklas has spent the winter in the gym, then? Bench press, seated rowing and lots of pilates?

2 words. Balanced rudder

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Inline spreaders? Is this different than the other mini-maxis?

 

Makes for smaller jibs, but better rig and mainsail control.

 

I thought IRC did not like old fashioned rigs, or is this another case of IRC letting the big boats be real race boats and still win, while forcing the vast majority to sail uninspiring heavyweights to be competitive?

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The jibs are not smaller. Just different geometry.

 

I think they pay a price for the second runner.

 

No one is forcing the vast majority to sail uninspiring heavyweights.

 

...it's voluntary.

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Topmast backstays & deflectors? (And checkstays)

 

Wonder if they've got an adjustable forestay as well. Assume so. Wondering about moving the rig for balance/weather helm issues. And so reducing helm loads. Hence the tiller? (and the inline spreaders as well).

 

The one thing you can say is that this is a boat where the owner won't be relegated to the runners.

 

A video walk-through would be nice.

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Inline spreaders? Is this different than the other mini-maxis?

Makes for smaller jibs, but better rig and mainsail control.

I thought IRC did not like old fashioned rigs, or is this another case of IRC letting the big boats be real race boats and still win, while forcing the vast majority to sail uninspiring heavyweights to be competitive?

 

And '80's graphics, it all comes back around.

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Topmast backstays & deflectors? (And checkstays)

 

Wonder if they've got an adjustable forestay as well. Assume so. Wondering about moving the rig for balance/weather helm issues. And so reducing helm loads. Hence the tiller? (and the inline spreaders as well).

 

The one thing you can say is that this is a boat where the owner won't be relegated to the runners.

 

A video walk-through would be nice.

As per mini maxi class rule.

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If memory serves she didn't steer so well at first with those dual rudders.

 

Here is a shitter mini maxi with dual rudders:

pendragonVI.jpg

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This boat seems like a lot of money to be able to spend even more money and not have much fun.

 

Why would anyone want to do this? Unless he has to prove he has a penis bigger than a few cm!!

 

A J70 or even an Opti would be 100 times more fun and cost less.

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This boat seems like a lot of money to be able to spend even more money and not have much fun.

 

Why would anyone want to do this? Unless he has to prove he has a penis bigger than a few cm!!

 

A J70 or even an Opti would be 100 times more fun and cost less.

Painting on the cave walls and sending smoke signals is more fun than computers and internet. Costs less, too

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This boat seems like a lot of money to be able to spend even more money and not have much fun.

 

Why would anyone want to do this? Unless he has to prove he has a penis bigger than a few cm!!

 

A J70 or even an Opti would be 100 times more fun and cost less.

I respect the bloke for earning a shit ton of money and is passionate about his sailing, after all he steers his boats himself as well. Now he's built one of the coolest looking race boats that we can all admire.

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This boat seems like a lot of money to be able to spend even more money and not have much fun.

 

Why would anyone want to do this? Unless he has to prove he has a penis bigger than a few cm!!

 

A J70 or even an Opti would be 100 times more fun and cost less.

post-487-0-24049300-1398244701_thumb.jpeg

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^^ Is good.

 

I respect the guy for what he does, driving the boat himself and all, but I still don't get it.

 

I've never been able to enjoy racing where it's just a pissing contest over who has the biggest wallet.

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You obviously have never played with wallets that big.

A lot of these guys find the design and build stage just as fun as the sailing part.

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Exactly. There have been plenty of big boat projects that haven't produced the goods. It's not only proving that you've got the cash, but also that you're better at spending it than the next bloke.

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I really like the single rudder on this too- something much better looking about it

 

Seems to me though it's a bit of a shift from the usual- there's a reason every big offshore boat for the last 8 years or so has went double except WOXI- but she's nice and narrow so 2 not really necessary. She's also so covered in Gybeset's semen I don't think anyone really knows what the story is.

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Iced tea... None of the mini maxis being campaigned right now has dual rudders. Check your research.

Yeah should have thought before writing- I meant all the VO, IMOCA etc all have duals.

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Iced tea... None of the mini maxis being campaigned right now has dual rudders. Check your research.

Yeah should have thought before writing- I meant all the VO, IMOCA etc all have duals.

 

Perhaps that's a matter of optimisation, The VOs and IMOCA boats tend to spend most of their time going downwind and reaching whereas the mini maxis sail a wider variety of courses.

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Iced tea... None of the mini maxis being campaigned right now has dual rudders. Check your research.

Yeah should have thought before writing- I meant all the VO, IMOCA etc all have duals.

 

And none of them are part of the mini maxi class.....? Cmon.

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Iced tea... None of the mini maxis being campaigned right now has dual rudders. Check your research.

Yeah should have thought before writing- I meant all the VO, IMOCA etc all have duals.

 

And none of them are part of the mini maxi class.....? Cmon.

 

Define mini maxi for us...

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Oh my god are we seriously doing this?

 

Well go on -

 

oh so well researched one.

When referring to Ran then using the phrase Mini Maxi is the name of the class that she is designed for. Specifically with a maximum length of 72 ft, as chosen by the owners.

As for having one rudder. These boats do mostly ww/lw courses, and hardly ever go offshore.

A little like the TPs that became optimised for the Medcup, this class is following a similar route.

 

The minis, Volvos, IMOCAs are trying to find max righting moment (weighed against weight and drag). Therefore they go wider, therefore requiring 2 rudders.

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Iced tea... None of the mini maxis being campaigned right now has dual rudders. Check your research.

Yeah should have thought before writing- I meant all the VO, IMOCA etc all have duals.

 

And none of them are part of the mini maxi class.....? Cmon.

Yes, I know that.

Wanted to know the reason the mini maxis don't have duals.

Now I know.

Relax

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I should point out the exception was Titan (the one that caught fire) had twin rudders but wasn't strictly a mini maxi because of her 75ft length but Bill Koch was allowed to campaign her for the mini maxi worlds a few years ago. Apart from that I'm not sure what racing that boat did

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Iced tea... None of the mini maxis being campaigned right now has dual rudders. Check your research.

Yeah should have thought before writing- I meant all the VO, IMOCA etc all have duals.

 

And none of them are part of the mini maxi class.....? Cmon.

 

Define mini maxi for us...

http://www.internationalmaxiassociation.com/pdf/2014_IMA_Class_Rules.pdf

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I thought Ran was coming to Sydney for the Sydney Hobart this year?

It's only the end of April...there's still time to get it here. Considering the amount of ocean racing they did with the previous Ran I'd be surprised if they weren't able to change between tiller & wheel steering without too much fuss. There's not many problems that money can't fix.

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I thought Ran was coming to Sydney for the Sydney Hobart this year?

It's only the end of April...there's still time to get it here. Considering the amount of ocean racing they did with the previous Ran I'd be surprised if they weren't able to change between tiller & wheel steering without too much fuss. There's not many problems that money can't fix.
Why is wheel steering compulsory for the Sydney Hobart??

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I thought Ran was coming to Sydney for the Sydney Hobart this year?

It's only the end of April...there's still time to get it here. Considering the amount of ocean racing they did with the previous Ran I'd be surprised if they weren't able to change between tiller & wheel steering without too much fuss. There's not many problems that money can't fix.
Why is wheel steering compulsory for the Sydney Hobart??

Easier on the body in long stints helming plus more helmsmen are comfortable in big seas and conditions steering via wheel than tiller. Large serious offshore boats are invariably wheel steered though of course tillers happen in smaller boats.

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I thought Ran was coming to Sydney for the Sydney Hobart this year?

It's only the end of April...there's still time to get it here. Considering the amount of ocean racing they did with the previous Ran I'd be surprised if they weren't able to change between tiller & wheel steering without too much fuss. There's not many problems that money can't fix.
Why is wheel steering compulsory for the Sydney Hobart??

It's not compulsory.

 

Mex

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Th

 

 

 

 



I thought Ran was coming to Sydney for the Sydney Hobart this year?

It's only the end of April...there's still time to get it here. Considering the amount of ocean racing they did with the previous Ran I'd be surprised if they weren't able to change between tiller & wheel steering without too much fuss. There's not many problems that money can't fix.
Why is wheel steering compulsory for the Sydney Hobart??

It's not compulsory.

 

Mex

They would have two setups, offshore with wheels and inshore with tiller. The main they carry has two reef point so I imagine that they have an offshore program as well..

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That particular main may have two reef points but it's a damn near certainty that they'd have at the very least separate inshore and offshore mains. Just seeing that one sail doesn't tell us much.

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Topmast backstays & deflectors? (And checkstays)

 

Wonder if they've got an adjustable forestay as well. Assume so. Wondering about moving the rig for balance/weather helm issues. And so reducing helm loads. Hence the tiller? (and the inline spreaders as well).

 

The one thing you can say is that this is a boat where the owner won't be relegated to the runners.

 

A video walk-through would be nice.

 

It's fine for Pro crewed boats at the GP Level. But at the Club level you'd need someone to be the mast trimmer all the time and if they could not make it, would the boat go out??

 

I just replaced my old busted mast (previous owner repaired), that had inline spreaders and required runners all the time. The New Mast with a swept spreaders (see photo) for stability will make it easier and more fun to sail. After All, isn't that what it is about.

 

zap26_rig4.jpg

 

 

This boat seems like a lot of money to be able to spend even more money and not have much fun.

 

Why would anyone want to do this? Unless he has to prove he has a penis bigger than a few cm!!

 

A J70 or even an Opti would be 100 times more fun and cost less.

Out of Touch

Not at all, Just Wondering.

 

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Man, that rudder is a long way forward. That's assuming the tiller is directly connected to the rudder shaft, there maybe a linkage with a bit of leverage....

The rudder is no further forward than any other modern race boat, have a look at the old Bella (even before the transom was added) next time you are sailing on it.

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Sorry if this is OT, but I noticed something interesting about the picture of the old Ran (now Robertissima) on the front page today. It looks like the leeward runner is looped over the windward side of the boom, meaning that the boom would grab the runner on a tack. Is this standard practice on big boats? Why?

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Sorry if this is OT, but I noticed something interesting about the picture of the old Ran (now Robertissima) on the front page today. It looks like the leeward runner is looped over the windward side of the boom, meaning that the boom would grab the runner on a tack. Is this standard practice on big boats? Why?

 

It stops the backstay from swinging around especially in a seaway and so reduces wear and tear on the rigging, it also reduces windage.

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Sorry if this is OT, but I noticed something interesting about the picture of the old Ran (now Robertissima) on the front page today. It looks like the leeward runner is looped over the windward side of the boom, meaning that the boom would grab the runner on a tack. Is this standard practice on big boats? Why?

 

Stops it banging around. It would purely be the blocks/heavy end. As the boat tacks, the tension would be taken up as the boom crosses, thus not having an issue with it being on the wrong side.

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Story up on TDS (behind the paywall). http://www.thedailysail.com/inshore/14/66587/1/guided-tour-to-niklas-zennstroms-new-ran-5-mini-maxi

 

Small extract:

 

 

In fact, even better, the new Rán can convert between tiller steering and twin wheels. Barely noticeable when she has the tiller in are two little bobbles in her cockpit sole grip tape that are the apertures for where the posts for the wheels go either side of the cockpit.

“Niklas loves the tiller on the TP52 and we spoke about it to Judel Vrolijk, they were like ‘what a crazy idea, why not?’ So we thought we’d give it a go and it’s actually been fantastic so far," says Powell. "We’ve been out in 25 knots blasting downwind at 20+ knots and driving with the tiller hasn’t been an issue. The only thing is that you are not going to go power reaching across the Irish Sea with a tiller, otherwise you wouldn’t be able to walk for about two days afterwards.”
So the wheels will go in for the offshores and Powell says there’s very little difference in weight between the two systems. There’s been no compromise on the size of the rudder blade, although for the designers it was a case of getting the balance right. “It makes the boat very nice to drive especially in those lighter airs when the wheels are struggling.”

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Story up on TDS (behind the paywall). http://www.thedailysail.com/inshore/14/66587/1/guided-tour-to-niklas-zennstroms-new-ran-5-mini-maxi

 

Small extract:

 

 

In fact, even better, the new Rán can convert between tiller steering and twin wheels. Barely noticeable when she has the tiller in are two little bobbles in her cockpit sole grip tape that are the apertures for where the posts for the wheels go either side of the cockpit.

 

Niklas loves the tiller on the TP52 and we spoke about it to Judel Vrolijk, they were like what a crazy idea, why not? So we thought wed give it a go and its actually been fantastic so far," says Powell. "Weve been out in 25 knots blasting downwind at 20+ knots and driving with the tiller hasnt been an issue. The only thing is that you are not going to go power reaching across the Irish Sea with a tiller, otherwise you wouldnt be able to walk for about two days afterwards.

 

So the wheels will go in for the offshores and Powell says theres very little difference in weight between the two systems. Theres been no compromise on the size of the rudder blade, although for the designers it was a case of getting the balance right. It makes the boat very nice to drive especially in those lighter airs when the wheels are struggling.

Interesting. Thank you Ed.

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It's fine for Pro crewed boats at the GP Level. But at the Club level you'd need someone to be the mast trimmer all the time and if they could not make it, would the boat go out??

 

Dawg, what in god's green earth about this boat has anything to do with club racing?!

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And she's just retired due to a rudder/steering problem- perhaps not as sorted as they thought..

 

Interested to know the details-

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