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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.

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Sabot_sailor01

Worlds best dinghy!!!

60 posts in this topic

Im asking what everybody thinks the perfect boat would be like??? Measurements, speed, crew, sail area, everything you can think of that would make it good

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Singlehander:

 

Finn - win anything major in a Finn and you're a legend, your name tied to the annals of dinghy racing.

 

other notable single handers:

 

International Moth

International Contender

Musto Performance Skiff

Laser (yes, really...)

Optimist

OK

 

Doublehanders:

 

505 - without doubt the best dinghy ever

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One that is given to you for free and after some blisters & small change for repairs, it delivers joy to you & ya mates!

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Sailing Canoe. Racing for the second oldest trophy. Lots of designs by legends for the unfit and lesser skilled. If you want to get back to dingy roots go IC, AC, or the newest and greatest DC.

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Singlehander:

 

Finn - win anything major in a Finn and you're a legend, your name tied to the annals of dinghy racing.

 

other notable single handers:

 

International Moth

International Contender

Musto Performance Skiff

Laser (yes, really...)

Optimist

OK

 

Doublehanders:

 

505 - without doubt the best dinghy ever

 

+1, couldn't have said it better myself except that you forgot the Fireball, great fun boat and very stable :) Well, maybe we will be able to add to the list soon <_<

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Boats and Guns are like Golf clubs different ones for different jobs. Or at least that's the excuse I give to female folk in my life. My 18ft cedar strip canoe was perfect for getting wilderness miles under my belt but only sailed downwind loaded with gear(suicide without). My Dad's Shark catamaran was perfect for Partying , Sunbathing Ladies and getting laid as a young man(But I wish it had a cabin.) Sunfish Fj Hobie 1 It really didn't matter just so long as the boats were exactly alike for Racing against my Dad. My free craigslist Mac Dingy is so cool I can't wait to find one or two more.

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The Wolds Best Dinghy is the one you want to sail and enjoy. Everything else is simply BS, bragging and personal opinion.

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This one.

1. You can tell it's going to be fast

2. It's never capsized

3. It's perfectly dry

4. It has no quirks or nasty habits

5. It keeps headed in the same direction, even if I don't touch the helm

6. It even smells nice

 

Of course, then I will launch it...

post-13071-0-69491400-1397859187_thumb.jpg

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Im asking what everybody thinks the perfect boat would be like??? Measurements, speed, crew, sail area, everything you can think of that would make it good

 

dumbass question

 

do a search after you finish your homework

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Its a better question than how do you dry your wetsuit which was posted below.

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This one.

1. You can tell it's going to be fast

2. It's never capsized

3. It's perfectly dry

4. It has no quirks or nasty habits

5. It keeps headed in the same direction, even if I don't touch the helm

6. It even smells nice

 

Of course, then I will launch it...

 

Dunno, looks already capsized to me. :)

What is it?

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A mono-molecular carbon epoxy hull that is tough as a tank but half of the weight and price of an Aero with kite, trap, and deploy-able foils.

 

....

 

....

 

Sorry, were we being serious?

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A free 470 in 20 knots of breeze on a beam reach.

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This one.

1. You can tell it's going to be fast

2. It's never capsized

3. It's perfectly dry

4. It has no quirks or nasty habits

5. It keeps headed in the same direction, even if I don't touch the helm

6. It even smells nice

 

Of course, then I will launch it...

 

Dunno, looks already capsized to me. :)

What is it?

Haha! Yes Gui, it's in its only stable position - upside down. It's my latest International 14, the Shu3.

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This doesn't exist yet but it may by the end of next year. At any rate, despite wailings of the non-believers, the boat has great potential to offer some disabled and physically restricted people a fast ride on a self-righting planing monohull with extremely fast electrically moved ballast. I will do my utmost to get the proto built when I've started testing my trimaran test model which will be any day now. More detail and updates here: http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/sailboats/crossbow-fl-43615.html

 

Crossbow fl Specifications: (changes are to be expected)

-----

Hull length-15.6'
Beam- 4.75'
---at waterline-3.75'
Sail Area-(boat will use a carbon A Class wing mast laid up specifically for this boat).
--upwind- 161 sq.ft.
-- downwind- 290 sq.ft.
Weight-sailing weight w/o crew- 223lb which includes:
--hull, rig, foils-124lb
--Trapwing Ballast System:
---wing-21lb. @ 12'-16' length overall, pivots for transport, and moving weight aft.
--- max ballast 78lb(8 pieces of lead-removable-.25" X 8" X 12"-about 9.72lb each)
Max Crew weight: 250lb-boat is designed as a singlehander.
All up sailing weight including crew-473lb
DSS Foils: each 1.63 sq.ft.( 6" X 39") 6.5/1 aspect ratio, Welbourn section.
Electrical System for moving ballast: Engineered for speed .

post-30-0-86221900-1399590887_thumb.jpg

post-30-0-68707600-1399590941_thumb.jpg

post-30-0-92387900-1399591082_thumb.jpg

post-30-0-70311300-1399591104_thumb.jpg

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At this point, the world's best dinghy is the 50 year old Lido I bought last weekend. We'll break it in in style, with 3 generations on board enjoying an afternoon the estuary.

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International Canoe

Rarely beaten.
Never boring.

DRC

post-100627-0-51055600-1399835426_thumb.png

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This doesn't exist .

Admitting it is a good step-

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This doesn't exist yet but it may by the end of next year. At any rate, despite wailings of the non-believers, the boat has great potential to offer some disabled and physically restricted people a fast ride on a self-righting planing monohull with extremely fast electrically moved ballast. I will do my utmost to get the proto built when I've started testing my trimaran test model which will be any day now. More detail and updates here: http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/sailboats/crossbow-fl-43615.html

 

Crossbow fl Specifications: (changes are to be expected)

-----

Hull length-15.6'

Beam- 4.75'

---at waterline-3.75'

Sail Area-(boat will use a carbon A Class wing mast laid up specifically for this boat).

--upwind- 161 sq.ft.

-- downwind- 290 sq.ft.

Weight-sailing weight w/o crew- 223lb which includes:

--hull, rig, foils-124lb

--Trapwing Ballast System:

---wing-21lb. @ 12'-16' length overall, pivots for transport, and moving weight aft.

--- max ballast 78lb(8 pieces of lead-removable-.25" X 8" X 12"-about 9.72lb each)

Max Crew weight: 250lb-boat is designed as a singlehander.

All up sailing weight including crew-473lb

DSS Foils: each 1.63 sq.ft.( 6" X 39") 6.5/1 aspect ratio, Welbourn section.

Electrical System for moving ballast: Engineered for speed .

Doug,

It looks like the trapwing ballast is relatively high. If you haven't yet, I suggest evaluating the righting moment over the full 180 degrees, and checking that the one crew standing on the the DSS foil is able to right it from a capsized or inverted position. (I'm also trying to picture how one stands on the DSS foil)

 

Also, I suggest extending the widened portion of the deck all the way aft. In gnarly conditions that's a nice place to sit.

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This doesn't exist yet but it may by the end of next year. At any rate, despite wailings of the non-believers, the boat has great potential to offer some disabled and physically restricted people a fast ride on a self-righting planing monohull with extremely fast electrically moved ballast. I will do my utmost to get the proto built when I've started testing my trimaran test model which will be any day now. More detail and updates here: http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/sailboats/crossbow-fl-43615.html

 

Crossbow fl Specifications: (changes are to be expected)

-----

Hull length-15.6'

Beam- 4.75'

---at waterline-3.75'

Sail Area-(boat will use a carbon A Class wing mast laid up specifically for this boat).

--upwind- 161 sq.ft.

-- downwind- 290 sq.ft.

Weight-sailing weight w/o crew- 223lb which includes:

--hull, rig, foils-124lb

--Trapwing Ballast System:

---wing-21lb. @ 12'-16' length overall, pivots for transport, and moving weight aft.

--- max ballast 78lb(8 pieces of lead-removable-.25" X 8" X 12"-about 9.72lb each)

Max Crew weight: 250lb-boat is designed as a singlehander.

All up sailing weight including crew-473lb

DSS Foils: each 1.63 sq.ft.( 6" X 39") 6.5/1 aspect ratio, Welbourn section.

Electrical System for moving ballast: Engineered for speed .

Doug,

It looks like the trapwing ballast is relatively high. If you haven't yet, I suggest evaluating the righting moment over the full 180 degrees, and checking that the one crew standing on the the DSS foil is able to right it from a capsized or inverted position. (I'm also trying to picture how one stands on the DSS foil)

 

Also, I suggest extending the widened portion of the deck all the way aft. In gnarly conditions that's a nice place to sit.

 

I'm not trying to be a smart ass but the thread I linked to above goes into great detail! DSS foils would NEVER be used to right the boat. The buoyancy in one side of the wing is about twice the ballast sliding within the wing. The wing can be used to bring the boat up to an angle of heel of about 20 degrees even with the weight max out on the lee side! In this boat you would never sit on the deck-you sit down inside the boat either in a pivoting center seat or in a revolving seat where you're facing sideways-very experimental.

Thanks for the comments....

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Doug.

First of all, your boat is not a dinghy. It is a ballasted boat.

 

Second, your boat might work.

 

Third, build the fucking thing full size.

 

Fourth: for the 1st pass, KISS and forget about a center fucking toiletbowl swivel seat. Leave your fucking tantric disaster behind.

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For the initial troll:

 

Im asking what everybody thinks the perfect boat would be like??? Measurements, speed, crew, sail area, everything you can think of that would make it good

 

Measurements: 16'6"long

6'6" beam

280 lbs except sails

Sail Area 172 ft^2 true area

2 crew

1 trapeze

4 battens

Speed: 7.5 kt upwind, 16 kts down with spin in 20 kts

speed, crew, sail area, everything you can think of that would make it good

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For me, the answer is easy. HOOT.

It is the perfect singlehanded dinghy.

Quick to rig, car topable with one person, very light weight, wicked carbon construction, super fast, responsive, easy to sail yet challenging(if that makes sense), planes upwind, asym spinnaker, head turner at the beach, oh, and the price point couldn't be beat.

I own 8 other sailboats, ranging from a Sunfish to a San Juan 30, none have been splashed since I got the HOOT.

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For me, the answer is easy. HOOT.

It is the perfect singlehanded dinghy.

Quick to rig, car topable with one person, very light weight, wicked carbon construction, super fast, responsive, easy to sail yet challenging(if that makes sense), planes upwind, asym spinnaker, head turner at the beach, oh, and the price point couldn't be beat.

I own 8 other sailboats, ranging from a Sunfish to a San Juan 30, none have been splashed since I got the HOOT.

+1

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The Contender, a boat that gives a Laser time in light air? If you want trophies yes. If you're sailing somewhere where it blows 20+, right boat. If not then try a newer design. Pretty boat though.

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This doesn't exist yet but it may by the end of next year. At any rate, despite wailings of the non-believers, the boat has great potential to offer some disabled and physically restricted people a fast ride on a self-righting planing monohull with extremely fast electrically moved ballast. I will do my utmost to get the proto built when I've started testing my trimaran test model which will be any day now. More detail and updates here: http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/sailboats/crossbow-fl-43615.html

 

Crossbow fl Specifications: (changes are to be expected)

-----

Hull length-15.6'

Beam- 4.75'

---at waterline-3.75'

Sail Area-(boat will use a carbon A Class wing mast laid up specifically for this boat).

--upwind- 161 sq.ft.

-- downwind- 290 sq.ft.

Weight-sailing weight w/o crew- 223lb which includes:

--hull, rig, foils-124lb

--Trapwing Ballast System:

---wing-21lb. @ 12'-16' length overall, pivots for transport, and moving weight aft.

--- max ballast 78lb(8 pieces of lead-removable-.25" X 8" X 12"-about 9.72lb each)

Max Crew weight: 250lb-boat is designed as a singlehander.

All up sailing weight including crew-473lb

DSS Foils: each 1.63 sq.ft.( 6" X 39") 6.5/1 aspect ratio, Welbourn section.

Electrical System for moving ballast: Engineered for speed .

Doug,

It looks like the trapwing ballast is relatively high. If you haven't yet, I suggest evaluating the righting moment over the full 180 degrees, and checking that the one crew standing on the the DSS foil is able to right it from a capsized or inverted position. (I'm also trying to picture how one stands on the DSS foil)

 

Also, I suggest extending the widened portion of the deck all the way aft. In gnarly conditions that's a nice place to sit.

 

I'm not trying to be a smart ass but the thread I linked to above goes into great detail! DSS foils would NEVER be used to right the boat. The buoyancy in one side of the wing is about twice the ballast sliding within the wing. The wing can be used to bring the boat up to an angle of heel of about 20 degrees even with the weight max out on the lee side! In this boat you would never sit on the deck-you sit down inside the boat either in a pivoting center seat or in a revolving seat where you're facing sideways-very experimental.

Thanks for the comments....

Sorry Doug, I missed the link and didn't realize this was for a sailor with limited mobility.

I get that with the wing in the middle position or extended to leeward the bouyancy of the pod will exceed the ballast and it will be self righting. But a sudden capsize to leeward with the wing extended fully to windward looks like it will turtle the boat, unless you have sufficient ballast in a keel/daggerboard mounted bulb to overcome the turtling moment of that fully-extended wing. A mast head float would also help. Is the center seat a safe position with the boat on it's side? If so, a mast head float keeps you out of trouble. My experience sailing I-14s is that capsizes to windward, when planing downwind are slow and gentle. Capsizes to leeward at speed are extremely quick and violent. Plunging the bow deep into the back of a wave at 15 kts is also sudden and violent and can end up in a windward or leeward capsized position. It looks like your most recent version has a ballast bulb, and I see from the BoatDesign thread that you're toying with a mast-head float, so maybe you've taken these things into consideration.

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This doesn't exist yet but it may by the end of next year. At any rate, despite wailings of the non-believers, the boat has great potential to offer some disabled and physically restricted people a fast ride on a self-righting planing monohull with extremely fast electrically moved ballast. I will do my utmost to get the proto built when I've started testing my trimaran test model which will be any day now. More detail and updates here: http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/sailboats/crossbow-fl-43615.html

 

Crossbow fl Specifications: (changes are to be expected)

-----

Hull length-15.6'

Beam- 4.75'

---at waterline-3.75'

Sail Area-(boat will use a carbon A Class wing mast laid up specifically for this boat).

--upwind- 161 sq.ft.

-- downwind- 290 sq.ft.

Weight-sailing weight w/o crew- 223lb which includes:

--hull, rig, foils-124lb

--Trapwing Ballast System:

---wing-21lb. @ 12'-16' length overall, pivots for transport, and moving weight aft.

--- max ballast 78lb(8 pieces of lead-removable-.25" X 8" X 12"-about 9.72lb each)

Max Crew weight: 250lb-boat is designed as a singlehander.

All up sailing weight including crew-473lb

DSS Foils: each 1.63 sq.ft.( 6" X 39") 6.5/1 aspect ratio, Welbourn section.

Electrical System for moving ballast: Engineered for speed .

Doug,

It looks like the trapwing ballast is relatively high. If you haven't yet, I suggest evaluating the righting moment over the full 180 degrees, and checking that the one crew standing on the the DSS foil is able to right it from a capsized or inverted position. (I'm also trying to picture how one stands on the DSS foil)

 

Also, I suggest extending the widened portion of the deck all the way aft. In gnarly conditions that's a nice place to sit.

 

I'm not trying to be a smart ass but the thread I linked to above goes into great detail! DSS foils would NEVER be used to right the boat. The buoyancy in one side of the wing is about twice the ballast sliding within the wing. The wing can be used to bring the boat up to an angle of heel of about 20 degrees even with the weight max out on the lee side! In this boat you would never sit on the deck-you sit down inside the boat either in a pivoting center seat or in a revolving seat where you're facing sideways-very experimental.

Thanks for the comments....

Sorry Doug, I missed the link and didn't realize this was for a sailor with limited mobility.

I get that with the wing in the middle position or extended to leeward the bouyancy of the pod will exceed the ballast and it will be self righting. But a sudden capsize to leeward with the wing extended fully to windward looks like it will turtle the boat, unless you have sufficient ballast in a keel/daggerboard mounted bulb to overcome the turtling moment of that fully-extended wing. A mast head float would also help. Is the center seat a safe position with the boat on it's side? If so, a mast head float keeps you out of trouble. My experience sailing I-14s is that capsizes to windward, when planing downwind are slow and gentle. Capsizes to leeward at speed are extremely quick and violent. Plunging the bow deep into the back of a wave at 15 kts is also sudden and violent and can end up in a windward or leeward capsized position. It looks like your most recent version has a ballast bulb, and I see from the BoatDesign thread that you're toying with a mast-head float, so maybe you've taken these things into consideration.

 

No ballast bulb on the Crossbow fl at this point.(where did you see that? not in the Crossbow thread unless talking about an earlier 18' version?). Probable masthead flotation.The wing moves so fast that even in your scenario it would be centered and on its way to righting the boat within 1-2 second max. Center seats are used on boats like the Martin 16, 2.4 meter and pivoting(not rotating) crew seats Bethwaites 18' Skud.

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Wtf is something that does not exist and probably will never exist doing in this thread? And to top it off, if it ever does exist it will probably be a POS.

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That Contender ad has to get the prize for best advertising copy of all time. Lovely boat but read the praise;

 

When men say “this never happens”, it is generally understood (by women) to be a bold and blatant lie. But in this case, it is true. This. Never. Happens. (Okay, well it happens maybe once every 12 years or so.) Up for sale is a ready to race 1977 Bonezzi. For those who don’t know, these boats are lovingly hand crafted in the small village of Mantua, Italy, by Vito Bonezzi and to say he is a boat builder would be an injustice on par with what is unfolding at the Oscar Pistorius trial. No. Vito Bonezzi is a boat artist. Contender World Championships are consistently won by Vito’s children, of which only a few are birthed each year and they remain perpetually and unnaturally in their prime, like Lance Armstrong, the Real Housewives, and zombie lions.

But if its lineage doesn’t impress you, then understand, gentlemen, that sailing this blonde beast will be the equivalent of bathing yourself in a tub of equal parts Axe body wash and Old Spice, then donning an Armani tuxedo with bottles of Moet tucked into each arm, the keys to your Bentley jingling in one hand, and your phone ringing in the other, with the caller being George Clooney wondering despairingly why you haven’t RSVPed to his invite to his party (in your honour) on Lake Como. That’s right. You will have women coming at you with such intense and all-consuming ardour that you’ll have to beat them off with a stick (figuratively, not literally in the Chris Brown sense).

As mentioned, this panty annihilator is ready to go – with carbon sticks, two sails (regatta worthy (Wavelength) and practice (Cicada)), foils, tenting top cover, full travel covers (top and bottom), dolly, and trailer. The cheddar being requested for the keys to the city of long sweaty nights is $6500. And in case you want to know why is this sleek wooden sex panther is up for sale, it’s because the seller is a tired, tired, old man who has settled into a monogamous relationship with an International 14, and as with all relationships, it’s hoovering up all of his available cash, time, and will to live.

UNLEASH THE SEX PANTHER NOW!

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As a broad question, Sunfish, because it has gotten so many on the water, extremely simple, inexpensive, not intimidating and planes easily giving it the right amount of fun to get people hooked.

 

I haven't found my perfect dinghy yet, favorite boat so far was a Fireball.

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Wtf is something that does not exist and probably will never exist doing in this thread? And to top it off, if it ever does exist it will probably be a POS.

The OP specifically asked what people thought would make the perfect dinghy.

That would certainly include Doug's boat.

No where did it state it had to be an existing boat.

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Wtf is something that does not exist and probably will never exist doing in this thread? And to top it off, if it ever does exist it will probably be a POS.

The OP specifically asked what people thought would make the perfect dinghy.

That would certainly include Doug's boat.

.....

except that its not a dinghy

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or real... except in Lord Doug's mind. Please, post those pictures again, so we know there was a model once. Oh, and use the keywords "People's Foiler" just ONE MORE TIME.

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Why, because the boat has ballast?

Plenty of dinghys have ballast, so there must be another reason?

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Why, because the boat has ballast?

Plenty of dinghys have ballast, so there must be another reason?

You are obviously new here..........

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Why, because the boat has ballast?

Plenty of dinghys have ballast, so there must be another reason?

You are obviously new here..........

Nope.

I am well aware of the past discussions with Doug.

I just re-read his post, and I don't see anything in there that would exclude him from calling his proposed boat a dinghy.

Do you?

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At this point, the world's best dinghy is the 50 year old Lido I bought last weekend. We'll break it in in style, with 3 generations on board enjoying an afternoon the estuary.

Ah, the Lido. A dinghy that manages to be slow but fragile...

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This doesn't exist yet but it may by the end of next year. At any rate, despite wailings of the non-believers, the boat has great potential to offer some disabled and physically restricted people a fast ride on a self-righting planing monohull with extremely fast electrically moved ballast. I will do my utmost to get the proto built when I've started testing my trimaran test model which will be any day now. More detail and updates here: http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/sailboats/crossbow-fl-43615.html

 

Crossbow fl Specifications: (changes are to be expected)

-----

Hull length-15.6'

Beam- 4.75'

---at waterline-3.75'

Sail Area-(boat will use a carbon A Class wing mast laid up specifically for this boat).

--upwind- 161 sq.ft.

-- downwind- 290 sq.ft.

Weight-sailing weight w/o crew- 223lb which includes:

--hull, rig, foils-124lb

--Trapwing Ballast System:

---wing-21lb. @ 12'-16' length overall, pivots for transport, and moving weight aft.

--- max ballast 78lb(8 pieces of lead-removable-.25" X 8" X 12"-about 9.72lb each)

Max Crew weight: 250lb-boat is designed as a singlehander.

All up sailing weight including crew-473lb

DSS Foils: each 1.63 sq.ft.( 6" X 39") 6.5/1 aspect ratio, Welbourn section.

Electrical System for moving ballast: Engineered for speed .

Doug,

It looks like the trapwing ballast is relatively high. If you haven't yet, I suggest evaluating the righting moment over the full 180 degrees, and checking that the one crew standing on the the DSS foil is able to right it from a capsized or inverted position. (I'm also trying to picture how one stands on the DSS foil)

 

Also, I suggest extending the widened portion of the deck all the way aft. In gnarly conditions that's a nice place to sit.

 

I'm not trying to be a smart ass but the thread I linked to above goes into great detail! DSS foils would NEVER be used to right the boat. The buoyancy in one side of the wing is about twice the ballast sliding within the wing. The wing can be used to bring the boat up to an angle of heel of about 20 degrees even with the weight max out on the lee side! In this boat you would never sit on the deck-you sit down inside the boat either in a pivoting center seat or in a revolving seat where you're facing sideways-very experimental.

Thanks for the comments....

Sorry Doug, I missed the link and didn't realize this was for a sailor with limited mobility.

I get that with the wing in the middle position or extended to leeward the bouyancy of the pod will exceed the ballast and it will be self righting. But a sudden capsize to leeward with the wing extended fully to windward looks like it will turtle the boat, unless you have sufficient ballast in a keel/daggerboard mounted bulb to overcome the turtling moment of that fully-extended wing. A mast head float would also help. Is the center seat a safe position with the boat on it's side? If so, a mast head float keeps you out of trouble. My experience sailing I-14s is that capsizes to windward, when planing downwind are slow and gentle. Capsizes to leeward at speed are extremely quick and violent. Plunging the bow deep into the back of a wave at 15 kts is also sudden and violent and can end up in a windward or leeward capsized position. It looks like your most recent version has a ballast bulb, and I see from the BoatDesign thread that you're toying with a mast-head float, so maybe you've taken these things into consideration.

 

No ballast bulb on the Crossbow fl at this point.(where did you see that? not in the Crossbow thread unless talking about an earlier 18' versi on?). Probable masthead flotation.The wing moves so fast that even in your scenario it would be centered and on its way to righting the boat within 1-2 second max. Center seats are used on boats like the Martin 16, 2.4 meter and pivoting(not rotating) crew seats Bethwaites 18' Skud.

Doug,

Must have been the 18' version in the BoatDesign thread I saw. But 1-2 seconds may be too slow. If it's automated maybe not. Consider this scenario: Sailing along with ballast partially extended when a gust hits. Natural reaction of the driver is to extend the ballast further to windward. It's not enough and the boat starts to go over. When the sailor figures out it's going over the heel angle is probably around 45 degrees. That final 45 degrees usually goes very fast, because now the weight of the mast, and the weight of the driver, work in concert with the wind to finish the job at the same time that the righting arm is being reduced. Will the driver have the presence of mind at that time to reverse the joystick position, and if so, will it be too late anyway?

 

I was out in my I-14 yesterday and managed to capsize coming out of a gybe (to the new leeward side). The time between realizing we were going over, until the mast hit the water was very short. I didn't have the presence of mind to punch the stopwatch function on my watch to time the process :rolleyes: but I'm thinking it was 1 second or less. My crew managed to climb over the rail onto the centerboard, but I dropped into the water, realizing that at that point, if I had tried to climb over too, I would have started the boat well on it's way to a turtle. With the only crew (you) strapped into the seat, I see the same turtling moment that I would have created had I insisted on climbing over the boat once the mast was in the water. At the very least the mast-head float seems like cheap and easily modified/removed insurance during your initial testing phase.

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not for everyone, but the 49er is a very nice piece of equipment. I am amazed of the sleek and simple design every time. pure and phantastic. not so suited for the really choppy stuff.

saill hard!

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yes that's a contender too!

Just a little lonely.

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Major Tom +1...

 

Best dinghy, dim question, regardless when/what....one I can sail/stand on.

 

Like when someone asks what's the best x for me here? Duh!

 

I have preferences, like everyone, but WTFCs?

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For the initial troll:

 

Im asking what everybody thinks the perfect boat would be like??? Measurements, speed, crew, sail area, everything you can think of that would make it good

 

Measurements: 16'6"long

6'6" beam

280 lbs except sails

Sail Area 172 ft^2 true area

2 crew

1 trapeze

4 battens

Speed: 7.5 kt upwind, 16 kts down with spin in 20 kts

speed, crew, sail area, everything you can think of that would make it good

Couldn't agree more. Also totally tunable on the water, well constructed with beautiful lines.

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An El Toro. you can row it, sail it, make a baby bed out of it, a planter box out of it, and it's cheap to make.- and usually cheap to buy...

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FastYacht, what is the boat you show (lapstrakes) in first post, but did not ID the class...am just curious.

 

You are all welcome to acquire the best dinghy ever, Kite number 1306 : o)

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...Is still a work in progress, but this is the first prototype..

 

vt2.jpg

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I am waiting for a 15 foot mono foiler, with 18 foot wings and a 200 sf2 main...Geez someone here have it already?

 

Simple is best, often in the beginning and most always later.

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