• Announcements

    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

HighAndDry

Say goodbye to 'beer can racing'

45 posts in this topic

Sadly one dead.

 

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2014/04/16/1-killed-1-hurt-in-tragic-sailing-accident-at-sequoia-yacht-club/

 

The press is having a field day with the fact that the event is called 'beer can racing', as they found that term on the YC calendar. Betcha a lot of clubs quietly drop any reference to that.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

GOD Wtf happened?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can just picture our local state water police 'patrolling' our Wed night racing. Damn.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can just picture our local state water police 'patrolling' our Wed night racing. Damn.

Any chance you can teach them to RC while they're out there anyways?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It sure would be nice if Californians would stop running into things, like Islands and Buoys or anything else that can be avoided, which is everything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

22894346.jpg

Picture used in the Sacramento KCRA article. Catalina 42? I think they used a shot from the Camilla Cup.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, this will probably a long thread inhabited by the usual suspects - yup; damn. Too early to tell what the heck actually happened. I don't think many clubs use "beer can racing" in their vernacular or published that way. bcr is a unformal phrase makes up the lore.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

22894346.jpg

Picture used in the Sacramento KCRA article. Catalina 42? I think they used a shot from the Camilla Cup.

 

What? That's got sails.

close_enough.png

 

 

We're lucky they didn't throw in a stock photo of a Glock.

Because "kill" and "glock" are always used together.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yea that Tuna is gonna kill someone... Maybe with the massive outboard, but yea, it could happen......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In DAGO hitting a Kan is in and of it's self = No Big Deal (Rules/Enforcement wise)

 

Almost every summer I get Pix of people fending off BIG HEAVY STEAL markers with arms and legs

 

I have NEVER even heard of much any structural damage from hitting one but I can see where one slip and a person could get crushed inbetween

 

Wondering just what happened in this case ????????????????? Tragic !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

well according to the article linked..

 

The mast of the 42-foot Catalina, named the Bella, snapped after the sailboat hit a lighted channel marker shortly before 7 p.m., said Coast Guard spokesman Lt. Mark Leahey.

 

are those the telephone pole stationary ones or a floating buoy?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's still plenty light out at 7PM now. Redwood City channel marks are almost all tall phone-pole style daymarks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, this will probably a long thread inhabited by the usual suspects - yup; damn. Too early to tell what the heck actually happened. I don't think many clubs use "beer can racing" in their vernacular or published that way. bcr is a unformal phrase makes up the lore.

 

Called "Beer Can Series" here in Dago:

http://www.cortezracing.com/index.html

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's still plenty light out at 7PM now. Redwood City channel marks are almost all tall phone-pole style daymarks.

 

 

interesting to know what the hell happened... obviously not being used for a mark, no club is that stupid.. besides other boats couldn't go help because it wasn't deep enough.. so how do you just run into it? it's only about 10" -12" in diameter, it's like avoiding a lobster pot..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I race regularly out of Sequoia YC on their Wednesday evening series. In the summer (not yet) we start in 15 knots and it builds normally to 20-25 by the end. Right now it's 10/15.

 

Navigating out of the Redwood City ship channel is an important and continuing demand on attention, especially close to the channel markers, which are bloody great posts. You don't want to go too close, mainly since the the Bay is pretty dynamic, and the charted depths close to the edges are not too reliable.

 

Sad to hear of this one. And especially since the man who died was a pick-up crew. Very much part of the SYC ethos is picking up newbies and taking them out for a fine sail on the Bay - I'd hate to see this go away. Let's keep the regulators out of this. Ugh.........

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The pole style markers are known for bringing down rigs when you hook rigging on them. I've seen it happen a few times. Chances are they hooked rigging on the pole and the rig coming down hit some folks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Those sneaky marks just jump out at ya- at 4.2 knots... From a mile away...

 

Fucking tragic stupidity-

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The pole style markers are known for bringing down rigs when you hook rigging on them. I've seen it happen a few times. Chances are they hooked rigging on the pole and the rig coming down hit some folks.

Wow. Is there nothing you haven't seen or done? We are so blessed to have you posting here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

It's still plenty light out at 7PM now. Redwood City channel marks are almost all tall phone-pole style daymarks.

 

 

interesting to know what the hell happened... obviously not being used for a mark, no club is that stupid.. besides other boats couldn't go help because it wasn't deep enough.. so how do you just run into it? it's only about 10" -12" in diameter, it's like avoiding a lobster pot..

 

Not from around here are ya Bouy

 

( FYI - USCG doesn't set Club Floaties )

post-1861-0-73643400-1397763800_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

It's still plenty light out at 7PM now. Redwood City channel marks are almost all tall phone-pole style daymarks.

 

 

interesting to know what the hell happened... obviously not being used for a mark, no club is that stupid.. besides other boats couldn't go help because it wasn't deep enough.. so how do you just run into it? it's only about 10" -12" in diameter, it's like avoiding a lobster pot..

 

Not from around here are ya Bouy

He lives in a place where the bottom drops low enough for every boat to pass, where floating garbage doesn't stink, the water does not move and affect boats......................... Nope I think he's posting from a far remote planet we have yet to discover.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

It's still plenty light out at 7PM now. Redwood City channel marks are almost all tall phone-pole style daymarks.

 

 

interesting to know what the hell happened... obviously not being used for a mark, no club is that stupid.. besides other boats couldn't go help because it wasn't deep enough.. so how do you just run into it? it's only about 10" -12" in diameter, it's like avoiding a lobster pot..

 

Not from around here are ya Bouy

He lives in a place where the bottom drops low enough for every boat to pass, where floating garbage doesn't stink, the water does not move and affect boats......................... Nope I think he's posting from a far remote planet we have yet to discover.

 

 

he should have been correct as I believe GOV Marks are not allowed to be used (But that was long ago)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unless there is other "press" I don't see them having a field day, they simply mentioned the name of the race. Cooler heads may wait till they have more info...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Most of the races I do around here use government marks, including pole-type daymarks. The only prohibition on government marks is that you not tie up to them.

 

I looked at the chart, all the channel marks are pole type, and 12 feet tall.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

 

It's still plenty light out at 7PM now. Redwood City channel marks are almost all tall phone-pole style daymarks.

 

 

interesting to know what the hell happened... obviously not being used for a mark, no club is that stupid.. besides other boats couldn't go help because it wasn't deep enough.. so how do you just run into it? it's only about 10" -12" in diameter, it's like avoiding a lobster pot..

 

Not from around here are ya Bouy

He lives in a place where the bottom drops low enough for every boat to pass, where floating garbage doesn't stink, the water does not move and affect boats......................... Nope I think he's posting from a far remote planet we have yet to discover.

 

 

he should have been correct as I believe GOV Marks are not allowed to be used (But that was long ago)

Hey wood only restriction is that you can't tied up to them. If you cant use marks for rounding points then I'm pretty sure the purpose of having marks marking corners of channels and such would be pretty useless ;-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I can just picture our local state water police 'patrolling' our Wed night racing. Damn.

Any chance you can teach them to RC while they're out there anyways?

 

I doubt they are bright enough. But they do have very cool Jet Ski's.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They hit a channel marker on the way out. These are the multiple telephone pole day markers. They were in the channel area and tacked too late and and hooked the marker. This brought the rig down and caused the injury and death.

 

We race there every Wednesday with the Yacht Club. It's a sad day here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rare that a dismasting leads directly to a fatality, but it does certainly happen. Couple years back one of the off-the-beach catamarans sailing off Waikiki lost the rig and it also took the life of a passenger struck by the mast. Big heavy stuff overhead - the Spar of Damocles.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They hit a channel marker on the way out. These are the multiple telephone pole day markers. They were in the channel area and tacked too late and and hooked the marker. This brought the rig down and caused the injury and death.

 

We race there every Wednesday with the Yacht Club. It's a sad day here.

wow...not even racing...and a pick up crew..sad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have sailed and done the Wednesday night races out of the Redwood City marina and channel many times over the years. To add to what F-18 said - it is a narrow channel, with daymarkers lining it. If you get up to the windward side and point like mad you can almost make it all the way out on port, but usually have to tack once or twice. To make life more exciting sometimes there's large ships and tugs going in or out, the center of the channel is dredged but go beyond the line between markers and you'll run aground - sometimes instantly, sometimes not. So you have port tackers going down the length of the channel, starboard tackers crossing it, and shallow mud on with big tall steel markers on either side. You have to keep situational awareness.

 

What a tragedy - I never would have imagined not coming home from a beer can race, but after this I think everyone is thinking "that could have been me." My condolences to the family of the deceased, the crew, and everyone at Sequoia YC. (BTW Sequoia YC has been a great supporter of junior sailing for many years, they are good people.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As long as I can remember they have been called "Wet Wednesday Races" on our area.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Normally when a rig comes down, it falls to leeward. And the crew is to windward. forestay goes or it breaks at the spreaders. The exception is in a collision or a snag on something. in those cases they can get dragged down in any direction. Like into the cockpit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sadly one dead.

 

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2014/04/16/1-killed-1-hurt-in-tragic-sailing-accident-at-sequoia-yacht-club/

 

The press is having a field day with the fact that the event is called 'beer can racing', as they found that term on the YC calendar. Betcha a lot of clubs quietly drop any reference to that.

 

I agree that particular race/series description will shortly be history.

I spent nine years running team practices, races and regattas on Redwood Creek. The visualization I get when reading the story is chilling because I can picture the venue all too well.

RIP

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When I moved here from the east coast, in my first race I clipped a nice steel government mark. Did my turns, and fixed the gel coat. in many cases -- the ebb can be violent and unforgiving. You can't take your eyes off for a second in close quarters with stationary objects.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When I moved here from the east coast, in my first race I clipped a nice steel government mark. Did my turns, and fixed the gel coat. in many cases -- the ebb can be violent and unforgiving. You can't take your eyes off for a second in close quarters with stationary objects.

I'm fully aware of the effect currents have on boats. I'm simply questioning that the ebb could have been strong at that location (as stated in the article). I've never even been in the channel. However, looking at the chart, it doesn't seem there could be enough water volume to create a strong ebb that would push a 42 foot boat into a day marker. Anybody who has actually sailed there have thoughts?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

When I moved here from the east coast, in my first race I clipped a nice steel government mark. Did my turns, and fixed the gel coat. in many cases -- the ebb can be violent and unforgiving. You can't take your eyes off for a second in close quarters with stationary objects.

I'm fully aware of the effect currents have on boats. I'm simply questioning that the ebb could have been strong at that location (as stated in the article). I've never even been in the channel. However, looking at the chart, it doesn't seem there could be enough water volume to create a strong ebb that would push a 42 foot boat into a day marker. Anybody who has actually sailed there have thoughts?

Um yes anywhere in SF Bay your incoming or out going flow can easily put you into a mark before you realize that you were in trouble 5 minutes earlier and just didn't see the slow speed crash in progress. This happened during a full moon too -- hence big tide changes so yes if they had flow it could have easily caught them off guard and put them up against the marker before they realized they were in trouble.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The pole style markers are known for bringing down rigs when you hook rigging on them. I've seen it happen a few times. Chances are they hooked rigging on the pole and the rig coming down hit some folks.

Happens with floating marks in the bay as well. This pulled into KKMI on a sad July 4th day in 2012. Close encounter with a mark.

post-45134-0-73376800-1398728102_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

When I moved here from the east coast, in my first race I clipped a nice steel government mark. Did my turns, and fixed the gel coat. in many cases -- the ebb can be violent and unforgiving. You can't take your eyes off for a second in close quarters with stationary objects.

I'm fully aware of the effect currents have on boats. I'm simply questioning that the ebb could have been strong at that location (as stated in the article). I've never even been in the channel. However, looking at the chart, it doesn't seem there could be enough water volume to create a strong ebb that would push a 42 foot boat into a day marker. Anybody who has actually sailed there have thoughts?

Um yes anywhere in SF Bay your incoming or out going flow can easily put you into a mark before you realize that you were in trouble 5 minutes earlier and just didn't see the slow speed crash in progress. This happened during a full moon too -- hence big tide changes so yes if they had flow it could have easily caught them off guard and put them up against the marker before they realized they were in trouble.

Um... first, not all SF Bay tides (currents) are created equally. Tides in the South bay are generally milder than in the North. No mystery, simply less water volume. Hopefully, you realize that tides generally diminish as you get closer to shore (again, less water volume). This boat was almost ON shore! In addition, as I read the chart, if it had any effect, a ebb would have pushed the boat away from this mark, not towards it. I was asking anyone that is familiar with the channel for specific feedback, not generalities.

1. Do strong ebbs occur in this channel?

2. If so, wouldn't a ebb push the boat away from this mark?

The boat was on Port tack, the mark was to Starboard. I'm guessing that they simply didn't see or lost track of the mark as it was to leeward. Just a guess, but it makes more sense to me than a strong tide affecting them at this location.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not likely...

 

post-180-0-08089900-1398793973_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually South bay water volume paired with shallow depth creates lots of flow doesn't matter where you are in SF bay you have tidal conditions to be aware of. If you sailed on a lake that had a stable level 90% of the time your argument would be valid but the SF BAY is not a lake.

 

This is especially true in the shallower areas like south bay where you stick to channels which turn into tidal rivers when the shallows empty and fill. So yes even more so in the South Bay during a Full moon your sailors keeping to marked channels will have some good tidal action to keep tabs on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually South bay water volume paired with shallow depth creates lots of flow doesn't matter where you are in SF bay you have tidal conditions to be aware of. If you sailed on a lake that had a stable level 90% of the time your argument would be valid but the SF BAY is not a lake.

 

This is especially true in the shallower areas like south bay where you stick to channels which turn into tidal rivers when the shallows empty and fill. So yes even more so in the South Bay during a Full moon your sailors keeping to marked channels will have some good tidal action to keep tabs on.

Maybe during New moons as well. They are called spring tides dickwit. Shit I forgot. You know everything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's been a lot of years, but I used to sail my Lightning out of Redwood City on occasion... same 5' draft as my 4ksb.

 

Yes, the channel is narrow, the water outside is thin, and the mud is so soft, you barely notice a grounding, but with a CB boat, it wasn't too horrible. I believe the other skippers when they say they were concerned about depth - especially since it was a falling tide. When sailing the south bay, you live by the moon, not the sun.

 

The calendar shows a full moon on 4/15/14

 

Looking at the tide table for 4/16/14, and correcting for the location I get:

Hi tide: 14:45 6.8 ft (Redwood city is +2.1 ft hi, +0.1 ft low, and about an hour later than the gate)

Lo tide: 20:46 1.9 ft - A 5 foot swing

 

Max Ebb at the gate: on 4/16/14 - 17:56, 3.2 Knots

Ebb at Redwood city; Same time and about half that max current.

 

So, at ~5pm, when they were heading out, it was basically max ebb of almost 2 knots - and given the height range above, I suspect it may have been more locally... i.e. in the channel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's been a lot of years, but I used to sail my Lightning out of Redwood City on occasion... same 5' draft as my 4ksb.

 

Yes, the channel is narrow, the water outside is thin, and the mud is so soft, you barely notice a grounding, but with a CB boat, it wasn't too horrible. I believe the other skippers when they say they were concerned about depth - especially since it was a falling tide. When sailing the south bay, you live by the moon, not the sun.

 

The calendar shows a full moon on 4/15/14

 

Looking at the tide table for 4/16/14, and correcting for the location I get:

Hi tide: 14:45 6.8 ft (Redwood city is +2.1 ft hi, +0.1 ft low, and about an hour later than the gate)

Lo tide: 20:46 1.9 ft - A 5 foot swing

 

Max Ebb at the gate: on 4/16/14 - 17:56, 3.2 Knots

Ebb at Redwood city; Same time and about half that max current.

 

So, at ~5pm, when they were heading out, it was basically max ebb of almost 2 knots - and given the height range above, I suspect it may have been more locally... i.e. in the channel.

YEP.. 2+ knots easily which could have been nearly half of what the boats speed was through the water. Meaning it wouldn't take much to get wrapped around a marker before you knew that you were headed for trouble.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites