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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
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The front page says those foils belong to an Open 60? Can't find confirmation one way or the other.

 

Thought you knew what J-foils were supposed to look like? Guess again. These from Jean Pierre Dick’s St. Michel Virbac, currently lying in Les Sables D’Olonne getting ready for the Vendee Globe in just two weeks!

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On catsailingnews, the Nacra 17 Class approved full foiling mods - very well detailed in the Factory's presentation

 

http://49er.us3.list-manage.com/track/click?u=df2d2bf709ec92475cd1c89d5&id=f87652be8c&e=19378512bf

 

Quite interesting, particularly at page 26 with a comparison of predicted performance with C and Z boards (4 point) and uptips (3 point)

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Xlot, very interesting paper -particularly the foil comparison- and, for cryin out loud, the fact that M& M use the word "Uptip" to describe the foil they and TNZ invented. I would have expected as much but very cool to see it in print! Thank you!

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On catsailingnews, the Nacra 17 Class approved full foiling mods - very well detailed in the Factory's presentation

 

http://49er.us3.list-manage.com/track/click?u=df2d2bf709ec92475cd1c89d5&id=f87652be8c&e=19378512bf

 

Quite interesting, particularly at page 26 with a comparison of predicted performance with C and Z boards (4 point) and uptips (3 point)

Yes, very interesting. But 27 kts of vmg downwind in 18 kts of wind with the uptip foil ????????????????

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Performance specs for the uptip foil were just spectacular, but apparently the need to retract the windward foil was a deal breaker? But it sure is cool to have that report around with somebody else-even if it is part of the inventors team- calling these foils uptip like they were originally named. And I imagine those performance figures are likely to pop up here and there! Also interesting to see the numbers for windward foil lift with two main Z* foils in the water.

 

*surface piercing foils

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What has to be remembered is that the performance figures are PREDICTED not real, and are based on the N17 foils as designed. We have seen in the A Class that predicted vs real doesn't stack up very well. In addition, the downwind VMG speeds predicted for Z foils have already been exceeded. The final point to note is that the Z foils being used on the N17 are very, very conservative. Those who have sailed the boat say it is rock steady, the foils are huge and if anything, it is too safe. Compared with the A, the foils are large and very draggy.

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All foils were compared with the same possibility of error yet the Uptip(their spelling, not mine) foils came out incredibly faster downwind.Very cool!! To be expected, I imagine , considering members of the original UptiP(my spelling, not theirs) foil inventors team were likely involved. Can't be denied, but I'm sure will be rationalized.....

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What has to be remembered is that the performance figures are PREDICTED not real, and are based on the N17 foils as designed. We have seen in the A Class that predicted vs real doesn't stack up very well. In addition, the downwind VMG speeds predicted for Z foils have already been exceeded. The final point to note is that the Z foils being used on the N17 are very, very conservative. Those who have sailed the boat say it is rock steady, the foils are huge and if anything, it is too safe. Compared with the A, the foils are large and very draggy.

Ok, that is the explanation. A vmg of 27 kts downwind would mean a speed of around 35 kts (estimate, not calculated), this would mean that the Nacra 17 would do as well as the GC32 or the AC45 F . It would not make any sense with the same type of foil.

The Vampire project is another story, they look amazingly fast, much faster than uptip and even L foils.

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Going to be interesting seeing how well the TF 10 main hull stays clear of the water -especially in waves.

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Going to be interesting seeing how well the TF 10 main hull stays clear of the water -especially in waves.

By your comment I gues you've got the answer. Why didn't they ask you?

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I think he was just thinking about it, not stating anything. You seem very sure he is wrong (somehow), so what's the correct viewpoint?

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I think he was just thinking about it, not stating anything. You seem very sure he is wrong (somehow), so what's the correct viewpoint?

His comment was sarcastic. I did not say anything about being right or wrong ( text comprehension). I can't talk about something I don't know. But I know where he's going to: starting with all his talk about his firearrow revolutionary foiling system and the lack of main foil in the hull bla bla bla... I repeat I do not know enough to say if its right or wrong, you won't find a single comment by me in this issue. But it pisses me off Doug polluting every single thread with the word foiling in it.

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When Maserati and Gitana first foiled their Mod 70 the biggest problem appeared to be incidental and frequent contact with the water by the main hull. Maserati solved the problem.

The TF 10 looks like the surface piercing foils are deep enough to keep the mainhull clear-but the real test will be in waves.

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I think he was just thinking about it, not stating anything. You seem very sure he is wrong (somehow), so what's the correct viewpoint?

His comment was sarcastic.

 

That is absolutely false.

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I think he was just thinking about it, not stating anything. You seem very sure he is wrong (somehow), so what's the correct viewpoint?

His comment was sarcastic.

 

That is absolutely false.

 

Me thinks she doth protest too much!

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@Nav,

That is inspiring, some people have the ability to think outside the box the looks amazing.

Soft sails will never be the same IMHBO.

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Yep, a lot of people have spent time trying to solve that conundrum, it'll be interesting to see how this one goes - and if it crosses over from commercial to recreational use.

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What an extraordinary boat!!!!

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22 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Wow!

Save your emotions, SR: the new foiling   high performance   ground breaking Cup boat is going to be far more exciting ... NOT!!!

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13 minutes ago, Xlot said:

Save your emotions, SR: the new foiling   high performance   ground breaking Cup boat is going to be far more exciting ... NOT!!!

It could be-Verdier is involved!

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Plenty of it about if you're looking in the right places. Guillaume doesn't have a monopoly on innovation.

LRArkema.jpg

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3 hours ago, nav said:

From FP...

PUPZILLA  

Good to see cloth sails apparently working ok

DSC_4541xx.jpg

 

20170330-7.jpg

 

tf10_trimaran_sea_trials_1_copy.jpg?itok

 

20170502-4.jpg

 

(c) http://dnaperformancesailing.com/our-boats/dna-tf10-foiling-trimaran/

 

Not only that they work, but that they are reefed and they still work. Had it been a wing, they probably wouldn't have left the dock.

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On 20/11/2017 at 11:31 AM, Sailbydate said:

Not only that they work, but that they are reefed and they still work. Had it been a wing, they probably wouldn't have left the dock.

+1

Slab reef hedslz rok

 

But why wishboan level?

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On 8.10.2017 at 10:39 AM, Sailbydate said:

Plenty of it about if you're looking in the right places. Guillaume doesn't have a monopoly on innovation.

LRArkema.jpg

 

That Mini-class is the right place to test ting - here is the future at display... should also be a Mini-multiclass to - I know the micromultihull-class that was before - and the 8.50 class in Aus/NZ - but in France where the real development is - there mostly big multis where experiments wil be limited - but even then go very fast forward.... 

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