floater

trickle down

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Anybody from LR attending?

Let's hope a 52ft would make them come back.

 

If the 62' Rule remained, they'd not have left. Just sayin.

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Anybody from LR attending?

Let's hope a 52ft would make them come back.

If the 62' Rule remained, they'd not have left. Just sayin.
True. But PB also said he was willing to compromise.

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No 72's capsized during races, but the 45's did by the handful - better get used to it!

 

What do the rules say about outside assistance?

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No 72's capsized during races, but the 45's did by the handful - better get used to it!

 

What do the rules say about outside assistance?

 

Am I way out of touch, or with a one design rig, won't they try to make it survivable for a "gentle" capsize like the G4 just had?

 

On another note, all those old threads about safety and soft landings seam pertinent again.

 

Koukel

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Rumor has it - this might be the next bad boy to fly:

 

New foils on the way?

 

post-18173-0-17505700-1429768859_thumb.jpg

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Rumor has it - this might be the next bad boy to fly:

 

New foils on the way?

 

attachicon.gifimage.jpg

Doesn't look like a flyer to me. I do dig the retro cabin. They should side it in mahogany and brushed aluminum.

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The new Gitana is an example of trickle down-at least on the port ama where they are using an UptiP foil. They're using a "C" foil on the stb ama to allow comparison with the port foil. Both amas have T-foil rudders.

Photo from Gitana--

post-30-0-19588800-1429799197_thumb.png

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As far as I remember it was published as a joke last year(?) and inadvertently picked up by Fred on "Foilers!"

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The real one now:

http://seasailsurf.com/seasailsurf/actu/9123-C-Foil-on-starboard-L-foil-on-port-for-Gitana

 

“With Gitana XV we’re in the process of carrying out research and performing trials so we’re using the platform as a laboratory for the Gitana Team’s future projects. To date the theoretical studies reveal two types of foils, which we’re hoping to trial. The C-shaped foil is a very efficient appendage in terms of hydrodynamics as it generates very little drag. Its ability to generate vertical lift is well established. Although we’re interested in flight, this form does lack stability. In contrast, the L-shaped foiled generates significant drag but it provides great stability and hence a sizeable saving in relation to the drag created by the platform itself. The boat’s handling at sea with such appendages remains a great unknown, but that is what is the interesting element to gauge in real conditions,” Antoine stresses. “These two types of foils are linked to two philosophies of flight. However, it all depends on what you call flight in offshore racing in big seas. Today, during inshore races, the boats in the last America’s Cup showed that one L-shaped foil, despite the drag it causes, is a more high performance compromise. However, the AC72s didn’t have the sea and swell parameters to take into account. That makes all the difference and it’s the primary difficulty that we’re currently trying to get our heads around.”

 

150422gitana-foil.jpg?1429708718

 

launch of the Multi70 Edmond de Rothschild is synonymous with the start of a test phase in real conditions on what is a demanding prototype

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Gitana is using a single UptiP foil on the port ama and a "C" foil on the stb ama.Both amas have rudder T-foils.

My test model uses a configuration similar but simpler than the "joke" render: wand controlled main foil that also controls the ride angle of the lee UptiP ama foil with a single rudder t-foil on the main hull:

 

Joke render June 2013 here: http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/multihulls/high-performance-mpx-foil-self-righting-trimaran-test-model-36058-32.html post 472

post-30-0-76825000-1429830142_thumb.jpg

post-30-0-99450800-1429830159_thumb.jpg

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and if sailing that thing doesn't look like the most fun ever - I'm not sure what to say.

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Fantastic-thanks!

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:D looks great, just like that other series that races the mid 40' boats...

but more boats, and probly the rules stay the same from when they ship the boats to the venue to when they arrive :D

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Thanks, TC. Fabulous - now, just imagine those brought up to 60' and electric power packs ..

 

MACCA WHERE ARE MORE BOATS AND ARE YOU FLOGGING A COUPLE TO BERTELLI?

 

:D looks great, just like that other series that races the mid 40' boats...

but more boats, and probly the rules stay the same from when they ship the boats to the venue to when they arrive :D

Nice one

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Foiling with soft sails? Can't be done.....you know it would have been brought in to save $$ in the Ebenezer Scrooge Memorial Cup otherwise.

 

@ Barfy - hell, it would be nice if the venue stayed the same during shipping, let alone the rules!

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Thanks, TC. Fabulous - now, just imagine those brought up to 60' and electric power packs ..

 

MACCA WHERE ARE MORE BOATS AND ARE YOU FLOGGING A COUPLE TO BERTELLI?

 

 

:D looks great, just like that other series that races the mid 40' boats...

but more boats, and probly the rules stay the same from when they ship the boats to the venue to when they arrive :D

Nice one
I'm pretty busy on other stuff at the moment. Some very, very cool stuff that will become public in the coming months. But rest assured that it will be high on the interest scale...

 

There are some other notable teams coming in for the season of GC racing and it can be a good fleet, I think it will become more of an owner thing over time, as Draper says in a recent piece on TDS. But it certainly proves that it's possible to have the cool stuff for not so much money or logistic hassle.

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Despite ugly fat hulls the GC32 is the coolest sailing boat existing now and could produce the most interesting sailing events.

Imagine these relatively small foilers screaming at nearly 40 knots, rounding marks in fleet, within harbours, in front of beaches, within cities like Venezia.

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Despite ugly fat hulls the GC32 is the coolest sailing boat existing now and could produce the most interesting sailing events.

Imagine these relatively small foilers screaming at nearly 40 knots, in fleet, within harbours and in front of beaches.

 

They sure make the X40s look INCREDIBLY obsolete, don't they. I also imagine these were the straw that broke the non-foiling AC45s back.

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Despite ugly fat hulls the GC32 is the coolest sailing boat existing now and could produce the most interesting sailing events.

Imagine these relatively small foilers screaming at nearly 40 knots, in fleet, within harbours and in front of beaches.

 

They sure make the X40s look INCREDIBLY obsolete, don't they. I also imagine these were the straw that broke the non-foiling AC45s back.

 

Right. It has been nearly years that I advocated here that X40s should be transformed as foilers. Perhaps their structure did not allow it ? anyway, too bad.

IMO that is also the reason why they scaled down the AC boat, they don't need a super big boat, small and super fast AC45T are enough to make the show.

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By the way, I originally did not like the look of the GC32s' hulls, either. But they have grown on me. They look pretty damned lethal now.

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It's interesting when they heal to windward all of a sudden. I guess the V/L part of the foil can't "keep up" with reducing lift and pops out. Anyone tipped one over to windward yet?

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It's interesting when they heal to windward all of a sudden. I guess the V/L part of the foil can't "keep up" with reducing lift and pops out. Anyone tipped one over to windward yet?

What is even more interesting is that it also happens on the A Class where we have both foils down. I think what happens is more to do with changes in apparent wind than anything else and that fairly small changes can have a multiplying effect that ends up in a vicious circle. First thing to understand is that if you get less pressure from the rig, this unloads the foil and the hull rises. As there is less pressure, the boat begins to heel to windward, which takes the load off the leeward foil and that rises more. which transfers weight to the windward hull which allows the leeward hull to rise higher which........... you get the picture.

 

I think that there can be cases where the leeward hull lifts first and others where the windward hull drops first, but the net effect is the same. On the A's, you learn how to steer and sheet your way out of trouble, although windward capsizes are a real possibility. The A can be sheeted fast enough to push the leeward hull back down and coupled with steering, once you know what to do, it isn't a problem. However, part of the issue is that if you have to think about it, you are too late and that you are learning a whole new way of reacting to changes in dynamics. Once you get to bigger boats, it is harder to sheet as fast as an A, but you also don't have that lightweight dynamic working against you which, combined with more forgiving foils, gives you have more time and less dramatic results.

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It seems that foilers could behave a bit like sailboards. In a gust the best way to depower is not so much to "ease the main" than to pull the mast winward. A few centimeters make all the difference.

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with sailboards part of that windward canting is creating more lift, and some leeward coupling occurs. probly don't need more lift while foiling, although if it increases leeway it would again be a good thing

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These foiling Cat regatta's are getting a dime a dozen Highspeed Sailing......Innovative Technique......Great Champions......Global Tour

Close action, engrossing battles, slick commentary, short races, legendary skippers, wild rookies and all starting exact on time. With the new innovative Formula Foiling multihulls. Full speed ahead!

This is one of the most spectacular sailing styles of the World. It is a new action sport powered by wind and water. With the new Formula-1 of sail racing. We present real sailing action extremely close to the spectators and media in a real global tour.

The Foiling World Cup with short course racing in our Sailing Arena would be a significant promotion for any city, region, resort locations and sports culture. The event can bring fresh life to the city lakes and port regions. We create a festive atmosphere around our Sailing Arena.

The highlights of the new Foiling World Cup .......

  • Events in Europe, America, Asia, Middle East.
  • With the best male and female sailors of the World. Open entry!
  • Very innovative and ultrafast full carbon 20 foot foiling multihulls.
  • Simple and open Box Rule to allow steadily technical development (like F1 Motorsport).
  • Racing in the Sailing Arena extremely close to the beach, pier or esplenade.
  • Top Image with athletic sailors and artistry double trapeze foiling multihulls.
  • We start exactly on time between 1-30kts. Perfekt for live TV, videostream and spectators!
  • Global media distribution to 180+ Nations (high return on investment for sponsors).
  • Activation and promotion in the most important markets worldwide.
  • Event- and team sponsors can decide where to race (strong focus on their target group).
  • High emotional guest- and VIP sailing program for sponsors, friends and media.
  • Fair, green and lean event philosophy (less motorboats, more sit-in-buoys and drones).
  • Great social program and party life. We will rock the race!
  • Maximum sailing action and fun...........

http://www.foiling.org/

 

 

post-33465-0-78503800-1430254648_thumb.jpg

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These foiling Cat regatta's are getting a dime a dozen Highspeed Sailing......Innovative Technique......Great Champions......Global Tour

Close action, engrossing battles, slick commentary, short races, legendary skippers, wild rookies and all starting exact on time. With the new innovative Formula Foiling multihulls. Full speed ahead!

This is one of the most spectacular sailing styles of the World. It is a new action sport powered by wind and water. With the new Formula-1 of sail racing. We present real sailing action extremely close to the spectators and media in a real global tour.

The Foiling World Cup with short course racing in our Sailing Arena would be a significant promotion for any city, region, resort locations and sports culture. The event can bring fresh life to the city lakes and port regions. We create a festive atmosphere around our Sailing Arena.

The highlights of the new Foiling World Cup .......

  • Events in Europe, America, Asia, Middle East.
  • With the best male and female sailors of the World. Open entry!
  • Very innovative and ultrafast full carbon 20 foot foiling multihulls.
  • Simple and open Box Rule to allow steadily technical development (like F1 Motorsport).
  • Racing in the Sailing Arena extremely close to the beach, pier or esplenade.
  • Top Image with athletic sailors and artistry double trapeze foiling multihulls.
  • We start exactly on time between 1-30kts. Perfekt for live TV, videostream and spectators!
  • Global media distribution to 180+ Nations (high return on investment for sponsors).
  • Activation and promotion in the most important markets worldwide.
  • Event- and team sponsors can decide where to race (strong focus on their target group).
  • High emotional guest- and VIP sailing program for sponsors, friends and media.
  • Fair, green and lean event philosophy (less motorboats, more sit-in-buoys and drones).
  • Great social program and party life. We will rock the race!
  • Maximum sailing action and fun...........

http://www.foiling.org/

 

 

 

 

So what makes the AC so special again?

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These foiling Cat regatta's are getting a dime a dozen Highspeed Sailing......Innovative Technique......Great Champions......Global Tour
  • We start exactly on time between 1-30kts. Perfekt for live TV, videostream and spectators!

 

 

:lol:

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I see Martín's hand in the rendering. Think he mentioned something a few days ago

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I hope that Roland doesn't tell ISAF, because they claim to own the right to "World Cup" when referring to sailing and have stated it will pursue anybody using the term. That will most likely keep out most pro and Olympic sailors.

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Interesting on this page: http://www.foiling.org/formula-foiling/they do not limit the boat to catamarans(wrong). A well designed foiling tri would eat cats alive as long as there is no artificial beam rule(but there is, unfortunately).

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The real one now:

http://seasailsurf.com/seasailsurf/actu/9123-C-Foil-on-starboard-L-foil-on-port-for-Gitana

 

With Gitana XV were in the process of carrying out research and performing trials so were using the platform as a laboratory for the Gitana Teams future projects. To date the theoretical studies reveal two types of foils, which were hoping to trial. The C-shaped foil is a very efficient appendage in terms of hydrodynamics as it generates very little drag. Its ability to generate vertical lift is well established. Although were interested in flight, this form does lack stability. In contrast, the L-shaped foiled generates significant drag but it provides great stability and hence a sizeable saving in relation to the drag created by the platform itself. The boats handling at sea with such appendages remains a great unknown, but that is what is the interesting element to gauge in real conditions, Antoine stresses. These two types of foils are linked to two philosophies of flight. However, it all depends on what you call flight in offshore racing in big seas. Today, during inshore races, the boats in the last Americas Cup showed that one L-shaped foil, despite the drag it causes, is a more high performance compromise. However, the AC72s didnt have the sea and swell parameters to take into account. That makes all the difference and its the primary difficulty that were currently trying to get our heads around.

 

150422gitana-foil.jpg?1429708718

 

launch of the Multi70 Edmond de Rothschild is synonymous with the start of a test phase in real conditions on what is a demanding prototype

That development is going to be great to follow, as will the 100ft'er if they get that far.

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Simon, ISAF owns "Sailing World Cup" : http://www.sailing.org/worldcup/news/index.php

These guys may be ok with "Foiling World Cup" ?

Don't shoot the messenger, but if ISAF is true to its word, semantics like that won't change ISAF's view. For a long time, ISAF has considered that there is a real problem with public perception due to the vast number of "world champion" there are in the sport. They have been doing everything they can to rationalise this. The Sailing World Cup was meant to provide some clarity and well before it was announced, ISAF discussed and resolved to protect the term "world cup" when used with regard to any sailing activity. There is no doubt that this is a sailing series and as such, I believe attaching the term "world cup" to it will get a reaction from ISAF.

 

And while I feel that on occasions ISAF go a little overboard in protecting the terms world cup and world championships, in this case I have some sympathy for their view. It seems to me to be a bit of a hijack of the term "World Cup".

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Simon, do you have any links "where ISAF discussed and resolved to protect the term "world cup" when used with regard to any sailing activity"? Thanks.

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Simon, do you have any links "where ISAF discussed and resolved to protect the term "world cup" when used with regard to any sailing activity"? Thanks.

Sorry, Doug, I don't. Most of it comes from having attended a fair number of ISAF annual and half year meetings where these things were discussed, although I suspect that if you search around the time of the original announcement of the Sailing World Cup, you might find something. It is also based on past behavior - try organising a world championship for a class that doesn't have international status and see what happens!

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We'll have one of the most interesting trickle down sailing event next weekend at Carnac with the Eurocat.

The long distance event always present the best design of the moment. The Tornado has been winning it for decades, lately replaced by the M20 and the Nacra F20, last year by the first racing FP.

This year we will have the chance to have a fleet of FP and N20 fcs, and probably a few other foil design. It will be very interesting to see what concept takes the best. Let's hope for good racing conditions in this windy place.

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^ Wing sails are so 2013

Ya, if you want to top out at 30 something kts, you don't need a wing. If you want to go mid 40s with and chance of hitting 50, on the other hand....

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^ Wing sails are so 2013

Ya, if you want to top out at 30 something kts, you don't need a wing. If you want to go mid 40s with and chance of hitting 50, on the other hand....

 

The hydroptère hit 56 kts with a soft sail.

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Carnac, typical weather in Brittany. Too bad they had to cancel the raid, we could have been able to compare the Nacra 20 fcs, FP and Vampire.

 

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I'm really looking forward to results between the FP and Vampire. The Vampire is using wand controlled foils angled out with a retractable windward foil when foiling. Going to be very, very interesting.....

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I'm really looking forward to results between the FP and Vampire. The Vampire is using wand controlled foils angled out with a retractable windward foil when foiling. Going to be very, very interesting.....

Yes, the Vampire broke their foil on a fisher line.

The FP seems to be a tad slower than the 20fcs downwind and a bit higher and faster upwind in some tests. Remains to be confirmed in a long distance competition. We have no clue regarding the Vampire.

Next meeting will be Texel.

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While very cool, I'm not sure you can call it "trickle down" since they don't use UptiP foils or any foils associated with the AC. Thanks for the info!

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Thanks Doug. Eagle top speed is about the same as the one claimed by GC32 crew. They foil on 4 legs, they don't need a wand however I don't think they can control the heave or the high. Not sure how well it does in waves.

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One of their top guys(Heiner) told me they were going to try the Whisper wand controlled foil system(which he said was the best around) but there is no doubt in high wind ,flat water the thing with the Eagle foil system is a rocket.

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In a medium the Nacra 20 fcs seems definitely faster than the FP. It will be interesting to know if the FP does better in stronger breeze.

 

- Average speed is 2 knots more for the F20 Foiler over the FP. Max speed 15,99 vs 15,19.Knots
- Gap +40 mins in 3:30hs for the Leg winners. Nrs below.

http://www.catsailingnews.com/

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nice,

soft sails reefed.

weather foil seems to be down a bit; stability or manoeuvre or casing or? anyone know?

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For what it's worth ,the boat has set several records before and after the name change from Hydroptere.ch to Hydros.ch. It's got movable bows that convert to stepped planing hulls. And uses retractable surface piercing main foils.....

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^ The sort of ideas that could be trialed in AC development, if someone didn't feel the need to be so controlling!

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That was Oracle gybing, 2 months before the 'greatest comeback'

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Not really "trickle down" but interesting new foil concept. The Vampire with the advantages and disadvantages.

http://www.catsailingnews.com/

 

 

 

M20Vampire2015-.jpg

For sure an V (uptip) foil would prevent that at the cost of a bit more drag. However this should not happen with a wand, the question is to know if the problem is the setting of the wand or the concept itself.

Also, with the angle on the main foil, in that position the T rudder loses power and the boat falls on the rear.

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That was Oracle gybing, 2 months before the 'greatest comeback'

 

They'll sort that out with an extra day practice...

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Who's on top of the pyramid...

 

 

OC Sport Technical Manager, Neil Graham, is currently leading the design process and a build schedule will be announced in the coming months.

The initial group of experts, from whom a smaller advisory panel will be formed, have been hand-picked for their unique insight into both the sport and the Extreme Sailing Series, and brings together some of the world’s top multihull sailors, who will be involved throughout the design process.

Amongst them are a host of former Extreme Sailing Series champions including Leigh McMillan (GBR) and Chris Draper (GBR). Also on the panel is Mitch Booth (AUS), who was instrumental in the design of the Extreme 40, and long-time competitors on the Series Rasmus Kostner (DEN), Jes Gram-Hansen (DEN), and Hans-Peter Steinacher (AUT).

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Live right now with a good breeze on

 

http://www.extremesailingseries.com/live

Watched some of it. The Wave is as dominating as usual but Draper helming GAC had (for them) a remarkably impressive day with (iirc) finishes of 3,3,2,2 and 1. CD's tweet:

--

 

@DraperChris: Epic fun @extremesailing series. 18 races in two days. The boys doing a great job. Plenty to work on for next two days @SoftBankTeamJPN

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