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Melges 40

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a 40 foot boat that rates in the -50s, say -51 or -54, would be...... interesting. I would think it would be a canter at those kinds of rates.

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Million dollar disposable day sailer. Yawn.

 

Tell me, does anyone seriously think a real live hottie is going go down below and fuck in that thing?

Naa, the owners room back at the resort is much more accommodating...

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sunseeker, on 30 Apr 2014 - 12:37, said:

Million dollar disposable day sailer. Yawn.

 

Tell me, does anyone seriously think a real live hottie is going go down below and fuck in that thing?

one mans hottie is another mans bilge rat

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Maybe something like this:

 

http://reichel-pugh.com/yachts/hpr-40/

 

oh man, that looks sweet!

.

...runners -a necessity on a 40'??

Not runners. Split top mast backstays - they go all the way to the top. Most boats with a square top mainsail have them now.

 

MS

 

I realize this is a schematic, but there are four (?) control lines on the cockpit floor between the backstay winch and the main winch. I am guessing one of these is the traveler. Would the others be vang, cunningham and outhaul? If they are there must be some horrendous under-floor spaghetti going on, and some interesting purchase systems!

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Its threads like this that make me wonder how many who comment here are owners or prospective owners of the boats being discussed, or are they just more people waiting for someone else to make the investment so they can hang on

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Its threads like this that make me wonder how many who comment here are owners or prospective owners of the boats being discussed, or are they just more people waiting for someone else to make the investment so they can hang on

Wonder no longer. The latter.

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Its threads like this that make me wonder how many who comment here are owners or prospective owners of the boats being discussed, or are they just more people waiting for someone else to make the investment so they can hang on

 

Its the degenerates like myself on this site who are the majority who make it possible for people to race these boats. Mr Boat owner gets long haired slacker to trim jib and bang daughter and race his sexy fast expensive boat. Mr Slacker gets to go to cool regattas, bang owners daughter, tell us all how cool he is for banging owners daughter and racing cool boat. It is a perfect system. Everyone is happy.

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I realize this is a schematic, but there are four (?) control lines on the cockpit floor between the backstay winch and the main winch. I am guessing one of these is the traveler. Would the others be vang, cunningham and outhaul? If they are there must be some horrendous under-floor spaghetti going on, and some interesting purchase systems!

 

Looks like one abaft the pedestal - probably the vang, and three for the main trimmer - traveller, cunningham, and outhaul?

 

post-419-0-12579400-1398858559_thumb.png

post-419-0-24517900-1398858568_thumb.png

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Its threads like this that make me wonder how many who comment here are owners or prospective owners of the boats being discussed, or are they just more people waiting for someone else to make the investment so they can hang on

 

PBOs are generally too busy making money to spend much time here. (Few exceptions noted).

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it's been a while since we solicited the data, but something like 85% of us-based racing crew read SA regularly. For owners, it's closer to 65%.

 

We've learned that around 5 owners are committed to the M40 when it comes; not quite enough to pull the trigger on an expensive proposition.

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it's been a while since we solicited the data, but something like 85% of us-based racing crew read SA regularly. For owners, it's closer to 65%.

 

We've learned that around 5 owners are committed to the M40 when it comes; not quite enough to pull the trigger on an expensive proposition.

 

When this was announced at an HPR meeting in 2013 (CRW) the target was 10 orders. By the time that happens and these get built (doubtful), the next hot design will be on the drawing board... Maybe they'll keep evolving it as time passes, but I think just 3 Carkeeks being built is a pretty good indicator of the chances of this coming to fruition.

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Maybe something like this:

 

http://reichel-pugh.com/yachts/hpr-40/

 

oh man, that looks sweet!

.

...runners -a necessity on a 40'??

Not runners. Split top mast backstays - they go all the way to the top. Most boats with a square top mainsail have them now.

 

MS

.

...okay,,they're not 'runners' per say..but same technique,,,and result if f'd up during a gybe? :huh:

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Maybe something like this:

 

http://reichel-pugh.com/yachts/hpr-40/

 

oh man, that looks sweet!

.

...runners -a necessity on a 40'??

Not runners. Split top mast backstays - they go all the way to the top. Most boats with a square top mainsail have them now.

 

MS

.

...okay,,they're not 'runners' per say..but same technique,,,and result if f'd up during a gybe? :huh:

 

not necessarily - this rig will have pretty long and swept spreaders in comparison with typical rigs that had true running backstays

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not necessarily - this rig will have pretty long and swept spreaders in comparison with typical rigs that had true running backstays

.

...so most of the time these running-backs are not in use?....only are used as back-up in high winds?

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it's been a while since we solicited the data, but something like 85% of us-based racing crew read SA regularly. For owners, it's closer to 65%.

 

We've learned that around 5 owners are committed to the M40 when it comes; not quite enough to pull the trigger on an expensive proposition.

 

When this was announced at an HPR meeting in 2013 (CRW) the target was 10 orders. By the time that happens and these get built (doubtful), the next hot design will be on the drawing board... Maybe they'll keep evolving it as time passes, but I think just 3 Carkeeks being built is a pretty good indicator of the chances of this coming to fruition.

 

10 boats to break even - is that on building in the US? Or Dubai/China?

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Its threads like this that make me wonder how many who comment here are owners or prospective owners of the boats being discussed, or are they just more people waiting for someone else to make the investment so they can hang on

Its the degenerates like myself on this site who are the majority who make it possible for people to race these boats. Mr Boat owner gets long haired slacker to trim jib and bang daughter and race his sexy fast expensive boat. Mr Slacker gets to go to cool regattas, bang owners daughter, tell us all how cool he is for banging owners daughter and racing cool boat. It is a perfect system. Everyone is happy.

Well aren't you a PHRF hotshot. Good on you. If I buy you dinner and a T shirt will you be my friend?

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a 40 foot boat that rates in the -50s, say -51 or -54, would be...... interesting. I would think it would be a canter at those kinds of rates.

 

 

Denali 2 (carkeek 40) rates -54 on Lake Michigan

 

Sail No Yacht Name Type/Class BHCP HCP TOTCF NSHCP DHCP CL CW Date Issued

00090 Denali^2 Carkeek 40 -54 -54 1.190 -45 -57 13 2340 June 07, 2013

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it's been a while since we solicited the data, but something like 85% of us-based racing crew read SA regularly. For owners, it's closer to 65%.

 

We've learned that around 5 owners are committed to the M40 when it comes; not quite enough to pull the trigger on an expensive proposition.

 

When this was announced at an HPR meeting in 2013 (CRW) the target was 10 orders. By the time that happens and these get built (doubtful), the next hot design will be on the drawing board... Maybe they'll keep evolving it as time passes, but I think just 3 Carkeeks being built is a pretty good indicator of the chances of this coming to fruition.

 

10 boats to break even - is that on building in the US? Or Dubai/China?

Admittedly I have no idea where they'd be built. I think all of the other Melgi are built by Melges Performance, though. Can't imagine the savings would be that big when you're dealing with this type of yacht. Maybe a huge production line, but 10 specialty boats that require intense project management to get tolerances right likely wouldn't have a huge cost difference (compared to overseas) if you've already got the infrastructure.

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Its threads like this that make me wonder how many who comment here are owners or prospective owners of the boats being discussed, or are they just more people waiting for someone else to make the investment so they can hang on

Its the degenerates like myself on this site who are the majority who make it possible for people to race these boats. Mr Boat owner gets long haired slacker to trim jib and bang daughter and race his sexy fast expensive boat. Mr Slacker gets to go to cool regattas, bang owners daughter, tell us all how cool he is for banging owners daughter and racing cool boat. It is a perfect system. Everyone is happy.

Well aren't you a PHRF hotshot. Good on you. If I buy you dinner and a T shirt will you be my friend?

Throw in some drinks and you have a deal.

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looks incredibly similar to the Carkeek 40s....except for the talk of a retractable sprit. Did they just copy and paste or what?

 

 

All the HPR 40s are damned similar with small changes in freeboard and details. MC38 at the inshore end of the spectrum, Ker 40 at the offshore end. Carkeek at the high end but a compromise b/w inshore and offshore, and the M40 looks to be a bit closer to the MC38 in concept.

 

Note that the rendering is a HPR40; the M40 looks close but with retractable sprit and maybe less freeboard. A perfect Mac boat!

 

Front page has a few more details if anyone is interested. "Half Mil Melges" is the headline.

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Its threads like this that make me wonder how many who comment here are owners or prospective owners of the boats being discussed, or are they just more people waiting for someone else to make the investment so they can hang on

Its the degenerates like myself on this site who are the majority who make it possible for people to race these boats. Mr Boat owner gets long haired slacker to trim jib and bang daughter and race his sexy fast expensive boat. Mr Slacker gets to go to cool regattas, bang owners daughter, tell us all how cool he is for banging owners daughter and racing cool boat. It is a perfect system. Everyone is happy.

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After racing on a TP52 for 3 seasons the answer to that question is yes.

What do they do when you take off their handcuffs?

He is the one wearing the handcuffs so the grinders can have their fun. I wouldn't exactly call him a hottie though............................

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forget HPR - yet another illustration of the failed model we have adopted for most big boat racing

 

sail them OD

 

Because everyone wants to sail one of the five boats you have deemed appropriate. As I recall, at the pinnacle of big boat racing in the 70s and 80s, one design wasn't even a consideration.

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it's been a while since we solicited the data, but something like 85% of us-based racing crew read SA regularly. For owners, it's closer to 65%.

 

We've learned that around 5 owners are committed to the M40 when it comes; not quite enough to pull the trigger on an expensive proposition.

 

When this was announced at an HPR meeting in 2013 (CRW) the target was 10 orders. By the time that happens and these get built (doubtful), the next hot design will be on the drawing board... Maybe they'll keep evolving it as time passes, but I think just 3 Carkeeks being built is a pretty good indicator of the chances of this coming to fruition.

 

10 boats to break even - is that on building in the US? Or Dubai/China?

Admittedly I have no idea where they'd be built. I think all of the other Melgi are built by Melges Performance, though. Can't imagine the savings would be that big when you're dealing with this type of yacht. Maybe a huge production line, but 10 specialty boats that require intense project management to get tolerances right likely wouldn't have a huge cost difference (compared to overseas) if you've already got the infrastructure.

The Melges 32s are built by SOCA Sailboats for Melges.

 

www.socasailboats.com

 

Melges doesn't have the current space in WI to build the boat. Maybe SOCA Sailboats? Maybe Overseas? We don't know.....

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it's been a while since we solicited the data, but something like 85% of us-based racing crew read SA regularly. For owners, it's closer to 65%.

 

We've learned that around 5 owners are committed to the M40 when it comes; not quite enough to pull the trigger on an expensive proposition.

 

When this was announced at an HPR meeting in 2013 (CRW) the target was 10 orders. By the time that happens and these get built (doubtful), the next hot design will be on the drawing board... Maybe they'll keep evolving it as time passes, but I think just 3 Carkeeks being built is a pretty good indicator of the chances of this coming to fruition.

 

10 boats to break even - is that on building in the US? Or Dubai/China?

Admittedly I have no idea where they'd be built. I think all of the other Melgi are built by Melges Performance, though. Can't imagine the savings would be that big when you're dealing with this type of yacht. Maybe a huge production line, but 10 specialty boats that require intense project management to get tolerances right likely wouldn't have a huge cost difference (compared to overseas) if you've already got the infrastructure.

The Melges 32s are built by SOCA Sailboats for Melges.

 

www.socasailboats.com

 

Melges doesn't have the current space in WI to build the boat. Maybe SOCA Sailboats? Maybe Overseas? We don't know.....

 

That news is about 5 years old.

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at the pinnacle of big boat racing in the 70s and 80s, one design wasn't even a consideration.

 

Neither was internet porn, but look at what happened in just 30 years!

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the Melges name is barely carrying the m32 or m20 classes right now thanks to poor marketing, organization, and communication in those classes over the past couple three years.

 

this thing needs serious planning and a serious effort, and i'm not sure Melges has the resources to pull it off, frankly.

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the Melges name is barely carrying the m32 or m20 classes right now thanks to poor marketing, organization, and communication RUNAWAY SPENDING in those classes over the past couple three years.

 

Fixed that for ya.

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I sail on a 44 footer with square top main and twin backstays. There are swept back spreaders that will keep the rig in the yacht if backstays do not come on in time. But the main role of the backstays is to flatten the main. We trim all the time. Alter pressure as wind strength alters by as little as 2 knots.

Results show in boat speed very quickly.

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looks incredibly similar to the Carkeek 40s....except for the talk of a retractable sprit. Did they just copy and paste or what?

 

All these new extreme racers look a hell of a lot more the same than IOR boats ever did - and they looked pretty much the same by the later stages of that rule.

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As the owner of a 40'ish footer that rates -51 phrf I can assure you it's a million dollar melgi to put a program around a boat like that and get it to the start line.

 

Bill

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What were the tag lines again? For M32 Racing - It was getting hard to compete with billionaires, then For M20/24 racing, it was getting hard to compete with millionaires? Yes, this will be another billionaire bloodbath for those who dare try?

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I realize this is a schematic, but there are four (?) control lines on the cockpit floor between the backstay winch and the main winch. I am guessing one of these is the traveler. Would the others be vang, cunningham and outhaul? If they are there must be some horrendous under-floor spaghetti going on, and some interesting purchase systems!

 

People have been rigging large boats like this for 20 years.

If it's laid out by morons maybe it's spaghetti.

 

But I'll bet it's well thought-out and tidy.

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As the owner of a 40'ish footer that rates -51 phrf I can assure you it's a million dollar melgi to put a program around a boat like that and get it to the start line.

 

Bill

Yup - and then you even get the Melges courtesy mark-up for every single part that you have to buy through MBW - which is probably in the class rules par usual - if you want to keep it in OD trim

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I'm not positive. I've only been on one a couple-a-two-three times...but I'm pretty sure Buddy Boats already has a high performance vessel in the 40 foot range (and for less than 1/3 the cost)...

 

 

picmelges38100a.jpg

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looks incredibly similar to the Carkeek 40s....except for the talk of a retractable sprit. Did they just copy and paste or what?

 

 

They all look like drones. Calm, cool and soulless. You have to get a flashy paint job with these designs.

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looks incredibly similar to the Carkeek 40s....except for the talk of a retractable sprit. Did they just copy and paste or what?

 

 

They all look like drones. Calm, cool and soulless. You have to get a flashy paint job with these designs.

 

Or brightly colored crew gear.

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I'm not positive. I've only been on one a couple-a-two-three times...but I'm pretty sure Buddy Boats already has a high performance vessel in the 40 foot range (and for less than 1/3 the cost)...

 

 

picmelges38100a.jpg

 

Those things are cute for the pond sailing you do, but I believe the new 40 footer is designed to handle more adverse conditions.

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looks incredibly similar to the Carkeek 40s....except for the talk of a retractable sprit. Did they just copy and paste or what?

 

 

All the HPR 40s are damned similar with small changes in freeboard and details. MC38 at the inshore end of the spectrum, Ker 40 at the offshore end. Carkeek at the high end but a compromise b/w inshore and offshore, and the M40 looks to be a bit closer to the MC38 in concept.

 

Note that the rendering is a HPR40; the M40 looks close but with retractable sprit and maybe less freeboard. A perfect Mac boat!

 

Front page has a few more details if anyone is interested. "Half Mil Melges" is the headline.

 

And then the Ker 40+ coming as well

 

3306060_20140325085420219_1_XLARGE.jpg

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Just to take some very very rough and round numbers -

 

J/70 sold approx 700 boats @ ~ $50,000 each = $35,000,000 worth of boats. Can be sailed by 3, everyone sails the boat, Probably at least another 700 sales potential.

 

M40 ~ 5 boats @ $500,000 each = $2,500,000 worth of boats. Lots of folks required to sail the boat, most of them railmeat. Total sales potential _______?

 

40's look cool and I'm sure will be fun for the folks that actually sail them. And it can sail in places you'd be stupid or Webb Chiles to sail the J/70. I'm not the market for this kind of boat but there obviously is a market, although how big it is and how many players it can support are big questions.

 

Both the Johnstones and the Melges have proven they're not in in the sailboat business, to reference the old joke, to make a small fortune. While the witty humorists on SA may ask, "what's it rate?", these guys have been at this a while and seem to ask "what's it pay?"

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"Dressing well is a form of good manners." —Tom Ford

 

Or, more specifically:

 

"Wearing the correct dress for any occasion is a matter of good manners." — Loretta Young

 

 


picmelges38100a.jpg

Those things are cute for the pond sailing you do, but I believe the new 40 footer is designed to handle more adverse conditions.

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the Melges name is barely carrying the m32 or m20 classes right now thanks to poor marketing, organization, and communication RUNAWAY SPENDING in those classes over the past couple three years.

Fixed that for ya.

 

 

+1

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looks incredibly similar to the Carkeek 40s....except for the talk of a retractable sprit. Did they just copy and paste or what?

 

 

All the HPR 40s are damned similar with small changes in freeboard and details. MC38 at the inshore end of the spectrum, Ker 40 at the offshore end. Carkeek at the high end but a compromise b/w inshore and offshore, and the M40 looks to be a bit closer to the MC38 in concept.

 

Note that the rendering is a HPR40; the M40 looks close but with retractable sprit and maybe less freeboard. A perfect Mac boat!

 

Front page has a few more details if anyone is interested. "Half Mil Melges" is the headline.

 

 

 

The M40 is a sweet looking boat. But having seen the Carkeek 40 up close and personal both in the factory and out racing - that is one impressive machine.

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Here's a shitty prezi advertising a HUGE circuit to begin in 2016 based on the old design for a forty. I'm still waiting.

 

https://prezi.com/m/vzsjudp4zpog/the-state-of-the-art-in-one-design-racing/

 

I think the new in word is "YUGE".

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Here's a shitty prezi advertising a HUGE circuit to begin in 2016 based on the old design for a forty. I'm still waiting.

 

https://prezi.com/m/vzsjudp4zpog/the-state-of-the-art-in-one-design-racing/

 

Interesting, that R/P was advertised then as the designers. Anyone know what happened in the last year between Melges and R/P?

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How many crews are capable of sailing a boat like this? Could your club sail two at the same time? Or is this concept only good for a handful of pro crews to only be sailed at 3-5 travel shows a year?

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How many crews are capable of sailing a boat like this? Could your club sail two at the same time? Or is this concept only good for a handful of pro crews to only be sailed at 3-5 travel shows a year?

 

I don't understand the question. Are you asking whether two owners would be able to find enough qualified sailors?

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How many crews are capable of sailing a boat like this? Could your club sail two at the same time? Or is this concept only good for a handful of pro crews to only be sailed at 3-5 travel shows a year?

 

Who do you think is sailing all the discarded TP52s?

 

Q: Will the amateur crews sail the boats at their optimum?

A1: Depends on the amateurs.

or

A2: Do the hackers ever sail ANY boats at their optimum?

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How many crews are capable of sailing a boat like this? Could your club sail two at the same time? Or is this concept only good for a handful of pro crews to only be sailed at 3-5 travel shows a year?

Who do you think is sailing all the discarded TP52s?

 

Q: Will the amateur crews sail the boats at their optimum?

A1: Depends on the amateurs.

or

A2: Do the hackers ever sail ANY boats at their optimum?

 

The J88s all have pros on board for chrissakes

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seems like this is going head-to-head against the RC 44 in terms of speed and world tour with the difference being makeup of the crew

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How is this boat at all similar to the RC44 which is basically a mini IACC boat with a sprit, designed to get put in a shipping container and help owners with 9 figure net worths get their rocks off.

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Million dollar disposable day sailer. Yawn.

 

Tell me, does anyone seriously think a real live hottie is going go down below and fuck in that thing?

Naa, the owners room back at the resort is much more accommodating...

 

The owner's daughters room would be much more to my taste...

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How is this boat at all similar to the RC44 which is basically a mini IACC boat with a sprit, designed to get put in a shipping container and help owners with 9 figure net worths get their rocks off.

designed to fit in a box - check

international regatta schedule - check

no amenities whatsoever - check

carbon construction - check

one design, not a box rule - check

furiously expensive - check

helping owners get their rocks off - check

 

I mean, to me at least, the concepts seem nearly identical. edit: forgot to mention that I think I recall seeing an RC 44 at -45 so with the Melges 40 at -51 they seem to be approximately equal in speed

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