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      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

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Doug Lord

Gunboat G4 Foiler

1,061 posts in this topic

In the video (http://sailinganarch...ying-timbalero/) @ 1'54'', is the helmsman super exited (which I could understand) or could he possibly be trimming something using his feet? (like foil rake maybe).

The helmsman has foot pedals to work the hydraulic main sheet I believe.

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In the video (http://sailinganarch...ying-timbalero/) @ 1'54'', is the helmsman super exited (which I could understand) or could he possibly be trimming something using his feet? (like foil rake maybe).

The helmsman has foot pedals to work the hydraulic main sheet I believe.

 

Correct. It's designed so that he looks excited. All part of the marketing spin!

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This bow-on view from 2:27 in the video looks very cool, though I wonder about clearance on that deep foot well down the middle when not foiling?

 

bow.jpg

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In the video (http://sailinganarch...ying-timbalero/) @ 1'54'', is the helmsman super exited (which I could understand) or could he possibly be trimming something using his feet? (like foil rake maybe).

The helmsman has foot pedals to work the hydraulic main sheet I believe.

 

Do you have to run the engine for the hydraulics the whole time?

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By the way he is excitedly pedaling (or is that peddling if its just for market spin ) I would say he was doing the hydraulic pumping not a remote engine. My guess is that its to keep an accumulator pressurized and the in/out control is elsewhere similar to what the grinders did on the AC foiler.

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No stored pressure in this one. Pumping sheets in and a release button on the pedal sheets out. 3 speed pump to avoid over excitement.

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Preliminary results for race 1 in St Barts show the G4 3rd across the line for multis, 20 mins ahead of the Gunboat Elvis, behind Phaedo and Paradox and corrected to 5th. The multis raced a 39 mile course 3/4 around St Barts and then back. Wind was 15 to 20 knots. We saw them only briefly and they looked pretty fast but weren't foiling when we saw them.

 

Phaedo is a rocket ship, beat Commanche on the same course by about 34 mins. Rambler 88 beat Commanche corrected to win the Maxi class.

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Preliminary results for race 1 in St Barts show the G4 3rd across the line for multis, 20 mins ahead of the Gunboat Elvis, behind Phaedo and Paradox and corrected to 5th. The multis raced a 39 mile course 3/4 around St Barts and then back. Wind was 15 to 20 knots. We saw them only briefly and they looked pretty fast but weren't foiling when we saw them.

 

Phaedo is a rocket ship, beat Commanche on the same course by about 34 mins. Rambler 88 beat Commanche corrected to win the Maxi class.

Is there a live tracker for the races? Cant seem to find one via the LVDSB website..

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Engine? no fossil fuels aboard the G4, unless you pay for a downgrade.

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Engine? no fossil fuels aboard the G4, unless you pay for a downgrade.

isnt the blender powered by a genset?

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In the video (http://sailinganarch...ying-timbalero/) @ 1'54'', is the helmsman super exited (which I could understand) or could he possibly be trimming something using his feet? (like foil rake maybe).

The helmsman has foot pedals to work the hydraulic main sheet I believe.

 

Correct. It's designed so that he looks excited. All part of the marketing spin!

 

 

I am really sad that you've only now started posting Rudo. lol.

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Engine? no fossil fuels aboard the G4, unless you pay for a downgrade.

isnt the blender powered by a genset?

 

 

DC blenders I hope. Tons of torques.

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In the video (http://sailinganarch...ying-timbalero/) @ 1'54'', is the helmsman super exited (which I could understand) or could he possibly be trimming something using his feet? (like foil rake maybe).

The helmsman has foot pedals to work the hydraulic main sheet I believe.

 

Correct. It's designed so that he looks excited. All part of the marketing spin!

 

 

I am really freaking sad that you've only now started posting Rudo. lol.

 

 

indeed. what a waste of talent. ain't it, clean? ;):P

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Engine? no fossil fuels aboard the G4, unless you pay for a downgrade.

isnt the blender powered by a genset?

 

 

DC blenders I hope. Tons of torques.

 

yeah it looks like it for the most part AB..

 

from the website;

equipment list-

-Retractable OceanVolt electric 8kw saildrive with flexofold 2 blade prop (with regeneration)

-Lithium ion battery bank 100 amp hours at 48V, house battery with 50 amp hours at 12V

-300W flexible and walkable solar panels on salon roof

-Optional range-extending (fossil fuel powered) generator

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Preliminary results for race 1 in St Barts show the G4 3rd across the line for multis, 20 mins ahead of the Gunboat Elvis, behind Phaedo and Paradox and corrected to 5th. The multis raced a 39 mile course 3/4 around St Barts and then back. Wind was 15 to 20 knots. We saw them only briefly and they looked pretty fast but weren't foiling when we saw them.

 

Phaedo is a rocket ship, beat Commanche on the same course by about 34 mins. Rambler 88 beat Commanche corrected to win the Maxi class.

Thanks for that...

 

keep us posted with your impressions huh? :)

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No stored pressure in this one. Pumping sheets in and a release button on the pedal sheets out. 3 speed pump to avoid over excitement.

Rudo,

 

do you know what is the speed/drag difference of foils verses conventional boards when non foiling?

 

thanks..

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In the video (http://sailinganarch...ying-timbalero/) @ 1'54'', is the helmsman super exited (which I could understand) or could he possibly be trimming something using his feet? (like foil rake maybe).

The helmsman has foot pedals to work the hydraulic main sheet I believe.

 

Correct. It's designed so that he looks excited. All part of the marketing spin!

 

 

I am really sad that you've only now started posting Rudo. lol.

 

+1!!!

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No big surprises on the course today. G4 lost to Phaedo and Paradox, and beat Elvis by a bit on the water. Anyone know what happened to the GC? How did it go until it dropped out?

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It's remarkable that the shakedown for a new boat is an ocean race.

 

And Commanche did the same thing.

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The wind was maybe perfect for G4- but the seastate -from the videos - to much for foiling?..... specially for the GC32....

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It's remarkable that the shakedown for a new boat is an ocean race.

 

And Commanche did the same thing.

Ocean race?

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Can one regenerate while foiling?

 

No. The electric sail drive must be extended down from the salon area. With this:

10860977_10153131623338490_2121439135260

 

The regeneration is limited by two things. It only goes so are down, not far enough if you are foiling. And it is not designed for speeds like 30+ knots. Looking for the warning label...

 

11088824_10153166698613490_1445332072217

 

No stored pressure in this one. Pumping sheets in and a release button on the pedal sheets out. 3 speed pump to avoid over excitement.

Rudo,

 

do you know what is the speed/drag difference of foils verses conventional boards when non foiling?

 

thanks..

 

 

Yes

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I'm pretty much in love with this boat except for the 'IKEA office desk' looking saloon table...

Or is it the chipboard and laminex one out of a 1981 Millard Safari caravan? Can we order crushed velvet cushions too?
Just stirring; the G4 is an awesome creation; well done. B)

 

 

 

11088824_10153166698613490_1445332072217

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G4s sailtime was 3h 50 min - it beat a $ 127.000 1994 3ton ocean racing tri by 30 mins (4 h 21 min) is that good...or not?

 

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1994/Trimaran-Coulombel-40-1703516/Caribbean/St.-Maarten-St.-Martin#.VS47CkKIexA

 

...and a Gunboat 62 by 20 mins ( 4h 10min)

 

Paradox used 3 h 02 min and the Mod 70 2 h 25mins

 

 

.....rating is BS..

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I'd love to see the results for these boats with an OMR rating. It would really show the impact of foiling because foils aren't rated under OMR. OMR is Offshore Multihull Rule used in Aus and elsewhere based on Texel.

G4 looks awesome.

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G4s sailtime was 3h 50 min - it beat a $ 127.000 1994 3ton ocean racing tri by 30 mins (4 h 21 min) is that good...or not?

 

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1994/Trimaran-Coulombel-40-1703516/Caribbean/St.-Maarten-St.-Martin#.VS47CkKIexA

 

...and a Gunboat 62 by 20 mins ( 4h 10min)

 

Paradox used 3 h 02 min and the Mod 70 2 h 25mins

 

 

.....rating is BS..

 

I wonder how much Paradox cost. That is one hell of a hot cruiser, sticking that close to Phaedo.

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G4s sailtime was 3h 50 min - it beat a $ 127.000 1994 3ton ocean racing tri by 30 mins (4 h 21 min) is that good...or not?

 

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1994/Trimaran-Coulombel-40-1703516/Caribbean/St.-Maarten-St.-Martin#.VS47CkKIexA

 

...and a Gunboat 62 by 20 mins ( 4h 10min)

 

Paradox used 3 h 02 min and the Mod 70 2 h 25mins

 

 

.....rating is BS..

 

I wonder how much Paradox cost. That is one hell of a hot cruiser, sticking that close to Phaedo.

 

 

Paradox was for sale, and may still be...

 

 

 

2014-08-27 - BGYB would like to inform you that the 65ft Cruiser Racer Trimaran PARADOX is very much for sale and the owners are highly motivated to sell!

 

http://www.bernard-gallay.com/yacht-for-sale/PARADOX-380

 

asking price was EUR 1.190 M, so about US $1.3M today

 

it's a much bigger boat than the G4 - ~50% longer and 100% beamier if the numbers i saw are correct, so elapsed time comparisons might not be that relevant

 

operating costs might be twice that of a G4...

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Paradox is cheap and easy. Owner operator if you choose, it has super simplified systems. Only cost is sails. I love that boat.

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It's remarkable that the shakedown for a new boat is an ocean race.

 

And Commanche did the same thing.

Ocean race?
point is - it's lumpy.

 

and it's somewhat remarkable they are happy to beat up the G4 in non-protected waters.

 

makes you wonder how the GC likes the bumps.

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It's remarkable that the shakedown for a new boat is an ocean race.

 

And Commanche did the same thing.

Ocean race?
point is - it's lumpy.

 

and it's somewhat remarkable they are happy to beat up the G4 in non-protected waters.

 

makes you wonder how the GC likes the bumps.

There's a little difference between Sydney Hobart and Les Voiles, but yeah...point taken. There aren't many regattas in this part of the world that don't include ocean though.

 

The g4 WILL be a weapon on Long Island Sound. Or Narraganset. If you don't have to go anywhere then it should be able to foil all day. Flat water and clean wind.

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Yup. She's a bargain at $1.3.

 

Really, that is amazing when you consider the cost/accommodations/performance.

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Day 2:

Mod70 sailtime approx: 1 h 54 min

Paradox sailtime approx: 2 h 30 min

G4 sailtime approx: 3 h 02 min

G62 sailtime approx: 3 h 28 min

Tri40 sailtime approx: 3 h 37 min

GC32 sailtime approx: 3 h 40 min

G55 sailtime approx: 4 h 18 min

 

Looked like better conditions ??..... Mod70 sets a speed record at the 42 mile (nautical?) course .This is clearly fast for the G4 isnt it? The average is 14knots for G4. And about 22 for Mod70. The GC32 make it around too ...

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I'm surprised by the G4 beating the GC 32 but congrads again to the G4 development team!

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Whats the use of having a boat like this and driving it slowly and cautiously with kids and friends aboard?

It would be like going to grocery shopping with a Ferrari.

Then again i have seen eager Ferrari owners not resisting the temptation to round a common side street in a haste, going into a spin and making fool of themselves.

The difference is.. You are more likely to learn and grow wiser in a fast car (Preferably alone) with tolerable consequences than not resisting to put her to its paces with several dear ones with grave consequances.

It is a great boat by all means. But i think its marketing pitch and targeted audiance for commercial considerations may be an invitation for a disaster waiting to happen.

 

Funny, from the people who have driven them, it sounds as though the common take away is that the boat is easier to drive than they had imagined. Just because a boat (or car) can haul ass, does not mean you can't cruise when you want, and haul ass when you want. It also does not mean that it is inherently dangerous.

 

"What's the use...?" Maybe the same "use" as kick-ass touring sedans. 99% of the time you are just doing every-day driving. But every once in a while, you can open them up and kick ass on all but the hottest sports cars. The counter point can be why have a super hot boat that you can hardly ever use? Particularly when you can have one that you can use pretty often and can really open up when you want. I think their marketing pitch kicks ass . . . show that the boat is going to light your hair on fire when you want, but that it allows you to do 'normal' boating stuff, too. My guess is that there is a decent sized market out there where you have owners (likely couples) where one will go along with a big "toy" for competitive racing as long as it can be used for the more common stuff, too.

 

If my wife and I had a couple $Million to blow on a hot boat, I would think this would be the kind of boat we could agree upon. I don't see my wife wanting to spend many nights on board any boat, more likely preferring to sleep in a nice house on land, but she would want the kind of accommodations the G4 offers for long day or weekend outings. I would get the kick ass ride, and no other boat would match this for both.

 

Time will tell.

 

Exactly. What a machine.

 

My next door neighbor is a car guy. He owns 2 Ferraris and a Lamborghini. Mostly I see him driving them to his office. Occasionally however he has one trailered out to the nearby track and really tries to put it through its paces. He has wrecked twice. That's part of his gig. I would love to have the G4 in Newport. Go ripping out to Block island, and if the conditions were right open the bitch up. Take friends for a day sail ripping around the mouth of the bay and come back and all sleep ashore. Hell most of the time when we are racing the J-122 we sleep ashore or most of the crew does. Cruising does not need to mean Joshua Slocum.

 

Well done Gunboat, pretty fucking amazing.

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Do the foils tilt back enough to provide extra displacement and slow the boat down in bigger conditions?

 

+1 to cool boat.

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I'm surprised by the G4 beating the GC 32 but congrads again to the G4 development team!

Something must be wrong with the GC. DNF yesterday and WAY back today. I didn't think it'd like Caribbean conditions but it should beat everything but the 2 big tris handily. It's been refined extensively and is full Grand Prix. Any reports from anyone there?

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.

 

...all's fun until someone hits a patch of debris :mellow::blink:

 

 

not-bad-for-a-multihull.jpg

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Whats the use of having a boat like this and driving it slowly and cautiously with kids and friends aboard?

It would be like going to grocery shopping with a Ferrari.

Then again i have seen eager Ferrari owners not resisting the temptation to round a common side street in a haste, going into a spin and making fool of themselves.

The difference is.. You are more likely to learn and grow wiser in a fast car (Preferably alone) with tolerable consequences than not resisting to put her to its paces with several dear ones with grave consequances.

It is a great boat by all means. But i think its marketing pitch and targeted audiance for commercial considerations may be an invitation for a disaster waiting to happen.

 

Funny, from the people who have driven them, it sounds as though the common take away is that the boat is easier to drive than they had imagined. Just because a boat (or car) can haul ass, does not mean you can't cruise when you want, and haul ass when you want. It also does not mean that it is inherently dangerous.

 

"What's the use...?" Maybe the same "use" as kick-ass touring sedans. 99% of the time you are just doing every-day driving. But every once in a while, you can open them up and kick ass on all but the hottest sports cars. The counter point can be why have a super hot boat that you can hardly ever use? Particularly when you can have one that you can use pretty often and can really open up when you want. I think their marketing pitch kicks ass . . . show that the boat is going to light your hair on fire when you want, but that it allows you to do 'normal' boating stuff, too. My guess is that there is a decent sized market out there where you have owners (likely couples) where one will go along with a big "toy" for competitive racing as long as it can be used for the more common stuff, too.

 

If my wife and I had a couple $Million to blow on a hot boat, I would think this would be the kind of boat we could agree upon. I don't see my wife wanting to spend many nights on board any boat, more likely preferring to sleep in a nice house on land, but she would want the kind of accommodations the G4 offers for long day or weekend outings. I would get the kick ass ride, and no other boat would match this for both.

 

Time will tell.

 

Exactly. What a machine.

 

My next door neighbor is a car guy. He owns 2 Ferraris and a Lamborghini. Mostly I see him driving them to his office. Occasionally however he has one trailered out to the nearby track and really tries to put it through its paces. He has wrecked twice. That's part of his gig. I would love to have the G4 in Newport. Go ripping out to Block island, and if the conditions were right open the bitch up. Take friends for a day sail ripping around the mouth of the bay and come back and all sleep ashore. Hell most of the time when we are racing the J-122 we sleep ashore or most of the crew does. Cruising does not need to mean Joshua Slocum.

 

Well done Gunboat, pretty fucking amazing.

 

Probably the vast majority of owners do the same.

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Day 2:

Mod70 sailtime approx: 1 h 54 min

Paradox sailtime approx: 2 h 30 min

G4 sailtime approx: 3 h 02 min

G62 sailtime approx: 3 h 28 min

Tri40 sailtime approx: 3 h 37 min

GC32 sailtime approx: 3 h 40 min

G55 sailtime approx: 4 h 18 min

 

 

..one can add Comanche 2 h 33 mins - and Rambler 2 h 36 mins both beaten by the cruiser Paradox - and the G4 is "just" 30min behind "the fastest monos in the world".

 

On rating (which is bull...) Rambler got 4:11 (same as Gun62 and the old T40) Comanche 4:26 - and G4 4:32 - winner would be M70 3:27 and Paradox 3:59.

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Do the foils tilt back enough to provide extra displacement and slow the boat down in bigger conditions?

 

+1 to cool boat.

Yes. You won't increase displacement too much, but in severe conditions or circumstances where you need not to fly it is easy to neutralize or slightly pull down. That force would then go up into the rig so you don't want tons and tons added.

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This is so cool. Well done GB for creating the worlds first foiling 40ft semi-cruising cat (if you don't think you can cruise on her your far to complicated) and she's only just behind the worlds top monos that cost millions more to develop, sail and run....... what's the next ten years going to bring to sailing??

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Day 2:

Mod70 sailtime approx: 1 h 54 min

Paradox sailtime approx: 2 h 30 min

G4 sailtime approx: 3 h 02 min

G62 sailtime approx: 3 h 28 min

Tri40 sailtime approx: 3 h 37 min

GC32 sailtime approx: 3 h 40 min

G55 sailtime approx: 4 h 18 min

 

 

..one can add Comanche 2 h 33 mins - and Rambler 2 h 36 mins both beaten by the cruiser Paradox - and the G4 is "just" 30min behind "the fastest monos in the world".

 

On rating (which is bull...) Rambler got 4:11 (same as Gun62 and the old T40) Comanche 4:26 - and G4 4:32 - winner would be M70 3:27 and Paradox 3:59.

 

 

Let's not forget that the G4 has only been sailing a week or so, while the monster monos, particularly Camanche, have some significant time under sail by now. I would think there is definitely some performance gains, as well as just gained confidence of what they can do, with the G4. I would bet those margins (for the G4) tighten considerably.

 

The funniest comparison, right now, is looking at the relatively posh accommodations in Paradox, and seeing how that boat is blowing away those maxis. They really could be running the blender and sipping drinks while skipping by those big boys.

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The "foiling" on the video also looks crap. It seems unstable and pitching nose down.

 

Bwahahahahahaha

 

Foiling with nose down trim is apparently more stable compared to level or nose up - coming from an A-catter friend who has been foiling his ass off lately.

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The photos and footage of the G4 are so sick. I only wish we were there on my boat. I think it'd be a good race between us. We have a pretty good handle on our performance against Elvis and Dauphin and always beat them by a fair bit ( unless we shit the bed). We've never had good boat for boat racing on Soma. Pretty cool that a cruising boat can be F40 fast (or faster).

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This is a full in race boat in my opinion. Just like putting a head and bunks on an AC foiler wouldn't turn it into a cruiser.

 

There's no way anyone is drinking G&Ts on the aft deck of that sucker whilst foiling. Step in the right direction though, eh?

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This is a full in race boat in my opinion. Just like putting a head and bunks on an AC foiler wouldn't turn it into a cruiser.

 

There's no way anyone is drinking G&Ts on the aft deck of that sucker whilst foiling. Step in the right direction though, eh?

 

Put the G&T in a CamelBack, and go for it!

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This is a full in race boat in my opinion. Just like putting a head and bunks on an AC foiler wouldn't turn it into a cruiser.

 

There's no way anyone is drinking G&Ts on the aft deck of that sucker whilst foiling. Step in the right direction though, eh?

 

Put the G&T in a CamelBack, and go for it!

 

Throw cushions… it needs throw cushions.

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The foot-pedal hydraulic mainsheet system at the helm station fascinates me.

Has this been done before? What do people know/think about this? Does it work?

 

My reaction is that for sailing fully crewed it doesn't seem ideal to have the driver trimming the main. On my boat trimming the main well is all-consumning and totally exhausting. Why locate this at the helm or at the helm only? It does seem like a great shorthanding solution.

 

Other questions: Is this setup better than an Extreme 40 style hydraulic lever-handled hand pump? If foot pedals are the way to go, would bicycle style pedals be more efficient/ergonomic?

 

No criticism here. I'm blown away by the boat and want to understand the thinking behind this unique solution.

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This is a full in race boat in my opinion. Just like putting a head and bunks on an AC foiler wouldn't turn it into a cruiser.

 

There's no way anyone is drinking G&Ts on the aft deck of that sucker whilst foiling. Step in the right direction though, eh?

 

Put the G&T in a CamelBack, and go for it!

 

Throw cushions… it needs throw cushions.

 

 

Cheese boards lower your rating if you spread them around.

 

Add throw cushions and more cheese boards.

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See from earlier posts that the weight was going to be 2,4 t - and ended up 2,7t - from some of the pics the detailing seems "advanced and expensive - not the lightest" (detail on the footsupport etc) - so it has an expensive look that fits the price.

 

So maybe a stripped racing version - as they do with sports car - could be a future option?

 

The way to even better regatta winning potential is maybe not top speed but earlier foiling?

 

Its probably a comprimise; earlier foiling vs more top speed ..... but in the future maybe both - by some even more advanced foils.

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Foot pedal is new invention. Rudo did Mischa give you feedback? Looks like it works or they would not be racing. I don't think it rules out another source of hydraulic pressure if desired.

 

As for weight, the 300 kg difference comes from a lot of places. The long dagger boxes are the most of it. They were made to give the first boat a lot of options. Future boats will be more refined in this and a number of other areas. The first weight was also before we actually tested scale parts and finished engineering the boards. After that we made the boards as strong as possible without regard to their weight.

 

Three weeks ago the debate was raging if the boat would really foil, then it was how long and stable, now the collective will is demanding earlier flight. Oh brother. If you want to foil in 7 knts TWS, buy a GC32 instead.

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Yes good - its the first one - a production prototype...... so there is some refinement to be done - witch will give lower weight and earlier foiling.

 

- the foiling era has just started .... (or it started long time ago.... but the timing was then not right)

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The foot-pedal hydraulic mainsheet system at the helm station fascinates me.

Has this been done before? What do people know/think about this? Does it work?

 

My reaction is that for sailing fully crewed it doesn't seem ideal to have the driver trimming the main. On my boat trimming the main well is all-consumning and totally exhausting. Why locate this at the helm or at the helm only? It does seem like a great shorthanding solution.

 

Other questions: Is this setup better than an Extreme 40 style hydraulic lever-handled hand pump? If foot pedals are the way to go, would bicycle style pedals be more efficient/ergonomic?

 

No criticism here. I'm blown away by the boat and want to understand the thinking behind this unique solution.

 

That's true, but I'd be pretty sure that bloke can handle it!

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One should realize that the G4 is a cruiser built with raceboat technology. That's why it is so light. The pre-preg construction, the carbon mast, the racing sails all contrbute to the low weight and high performance. Because the boat is so light you can have a smaller engine etc.

It is not a race boat, it is a high perfromance cruiser. Comparing it to a GC32 is a big compliment to Gunboat, but the G4 is a cruiser with full accommodation and much higher hulls then you would see on a pure racer. All cruising cats have a compromized light weather performance and seldom show more speed than 1.0 windspeed speed under 10 kts of breeze. If you would compensate for the extra weight by increasing the sailarea you will get monster rigs.

In speeds over 15 kts these modern cruisers can excell as they have an enormous righting moment. The wavepiercing and upside down hulls can handel the power and with curved foils this only gets better. The G4 will be superfast with 'ordinary C' boards too, although you will miss the pure thrill of flying high and dry. You have to have had the full foiling experience to fully understand and appreciate it. It causes super wide smiles in all of the crew. Not an adrenaline high which some might expect but pure joy.

 

Peter Johnstone was very brave to bring small boat technology to his high performance cruiser. One should realize that the G4 is closer to a DNA A-class than an AC72. The foot pedals were his idea and make it possible to sail the boat with a very small crew.

 

It is not a boat you will sail up the foils on the autopilot, as you have to steer and sheet it actively but there is no reason you cannot enjoy a G&T while foiling on this super big flying carpet as you will not be disturbed by the slamming of the hulls.

 

Having it fly earlier will need bigger boards which will hurt floating performance. I think this is very good compromise but we will see new developments coming years.

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I'm surprised by the G4 beating the GC 32 but congrads again to the G4 development team!

Something must be wrong with the GC. DNF yesterday and WAY back today. I didn't think it'd like Caribbean conditions but it should beat everything but the 2 big tris handily. It's been refined extensively and is full Grand Prix. Any reports from anyone there?

 

 

They only have one board!

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I'm surprised by the G4 beating the GC 32 but congrads again to the G4 development team!

Something must be wrong with the GC. DNF yesterday and WAY back today. I didn't think it'd like Caribbean conditions but it should beat everything but the 2 big tris handily. It's been refined extensively and is full Grand Prix. Any reports from anyone there?

 

 

They only have one board!

 

 

Oh, that minor detail.

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I'm surprised by the G4 beating the GC 32 but congrads again to the G4 development team!

Something must be wrong with the GC. DNF yesterday and WAY back today. I didn't think it'd like Caribbean conditions but it should beat everything but the 2 big tris handily. It's been refined extensively and is full Grand Prix. Any reports from anyone there?

They only have one board!

There you go. That explains it. Seems they're breaking their boards often...hope they're warrantied.

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I do not think anybody here is less than being totally impressed with this boat. That includes me too.

The problem lies with the definition of 'Cruising'

Dictionaries more or less define cruising as ''Travel or move around a place slowly, typically in search of something and without a specific destination''

Somebody rightly mentioned Joshua Slocum fitting to this description.

If this description is true, now try merging this in yor mind with this boat!

Perhaps it is about time that we re define what cruising is and get over with it.

My suggestion (the long version) is this;

'' Travel or move around a place as fast as technology allows, be alert at all times, hang on to your dear life, expect to come back unharmed, whereas showing off to everybody what a weapon you have and pretend you are doing all that without sacrifying any comforts you have at home''

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^ Or, just lighten up and appreciate things for what they are and what they provide. Screw worrying about terminology.

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If terminology is unimportant, then why are you attempting to undefine it so stridently?

 

If terminology is so unimportant, then why does Gunboat go to such lengths to describe their new offering... through the use of terminology?

 

Perhaps your struggle emanates from the hype chosen to market the machine and that has created its own quandary?

 

Maybe you'd be more inclined to suggest that the foot pedal hydraulics are actually "this pedal thingy that one screws around with and shit gets done", rather than fully describe the mechanism with those pesky bits of terminology?

 

.

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It all depends on your perspective. I remember having this debate about Paradox. Paradox to the recreational boater's eyes is a crazy race boat. Psycho. Like a spaceship. But...to the ORMA/G-Class boater's eyes it's super cruisey and downtuned. Dorky even.

 

It's about sacrifices. A Grand Prix machine makes no sacrifice to comfort. The GC 32 doesn't have mattresses or a sink or a fridge or a toilet. Once you start sacrificing speed for guest comfort it becomes cruisey. It's as easy as that. If a TP has a sink or a toilet it's only to meet offshore regs or to serve the barest functionality of human needs. The G4 has a wooden cockpit table, 5(?) mattresses, a fridge. Those serve no Grand Prix use so they are inherently cruising options. Would you want to do the S. Pacific on a g4? Unlikely. But you can take it to Barbuda or Block Island for the weekend and bring the wife. You aren't going to do that on the gc32.

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Really...? a solid wood table, or is it actually a honeycomb cored platform with a 2 atom thick fake wood veneer item for max weight savings and utility?

 

I would suggest that creating terminology by hanging at the extremes renders little for the beloved bell curve of understanding among the vast sea of users in the genre. Wordsmithery is not always a friendly way to create an understanding. Earlier today, I jokingly referred to the transformation of a Corsair Pulse 600 from sporty rec ride to a full-on cruiser with, "...Throw in a Jetboil and nifty Big Agnes, some Pett bags, cockpit cover and a collapsible water storage bag and you have a cruiser."

 

I'll tip the cap when every single wife comes back from said "weekend trip" on this cruiser and says, "Gee, honey, I super like the luxury of this G4. I especially like the crapper when we're airborne. When can we get the kids together and go gunkholing in Maine?"

 

No need to belabor the point that has been made with gusto.

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Hæ! When ever I bring 4 coke's and a sandwich with me, on my Hobie Tiger i consider it a cruiser ;-)

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Yup. Somebody around here wants to cruise their M32 in remotest Baja - so that's a cruiser too.

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I'm surprised by the G4 beating the GC 32 but congrads again to the G4 development team!

Something must be wrong with the GC. DNF yesterday and WAY back today. I didn't think it'd like Caribbean conditions but it should beat everything but the 2 big tris handily. It's been refined extensively and is full Grand Prix. Any reports from anyone there?

They only have one board!

There you go. That explains it. Seems they're breaking their boards often...hope they're warrantied.

 

 

Apparently they have 1 and a half after some mods. Maybe Loick engineering...hacksaw and genius?

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Really...? a solid wood table, or is it actually a honeycomb cored platform with a 2 atom thick fake wood veneer item for max weight savings and utility?

 

I would suggest that creating terminology by hanging at the extremes renders little for the beloved bell curve of understanding among the vast sea of users in the genre. Wordsmithery is not always a friendly way to create an understanding. Earlier today, I jokingly referred to the transformation of a Corsair Pulse 600 from sporty rec ride to a full-on cruiser with, "...Throw in a Jetboil and nifty Big Agnes, some Pett bags, cockpit cover and a collapsible water storage bag and you have a cruiser."

 

I'll tip the cap when every single wife comes back from said "weekend trip" on this cruiser and says, "Gee, honey, I super like the luxury of this G4. I especially like the crapper when we're airborne. When can we get the kids together and go gunkholing in Maine?"

 

No need to belabor the point that has been made with gusto.

 

It's either a cruiser, a cruiser/racer, a racer/cruiser, or a racer. or a workboat. Which is it?

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I know what it is not. It's not a cruiser.

 

Euros and Americans (can't speak for the antipodes due to lingering convict psyche) have assumed the mantel of luxury and the all consuming expectation of same. One can crow about a foam pad and a race boat interior as a cruiser until their online ego deflates, but the proof will be in how many actually are willing to pretend that they are in the arms of that perceived luxury... when they know damn well that they aren't. It's an attrition game and the wives/ mistresses will lead the little head to its earned reality. Otherwise, it's Daddy's toy and the family will meet the exhausted fellow in a condo somewhere.

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I don't know - I used to cruise my quarter tonner. And I thought it luxury.

 

Somehow I doubt the term cruiser has any particular meaning at all. In fact, I have feeling that if the Pardeys were invited along for a sail they would leap at the chance.

 

After all, that's all that matters: It's a sailboat.

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Updates on the day? Looks like a great race between GC and Paradox. 23 secs between them on elapsed. They must've repaired their spare board...?

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I don't know - I used to cruise my quarter tonner. And I thought it luxury.

 

Somehow I doubt the term cruiser has any particular meaning at all. In fact, I have feeling that if the Pardeys were invited along for a sail they would leap at the chance.

 

After all, that's all that matters: It's a sailboat.

 

Bingo. These efforts to gripe about how the boat is not "XXX", or "YYY", but is being marketed as "XXX" or "YYY" when what is really going on is that the boat is simply different and absolutely has elements of both "XXX" AND "YYY". There are going to be people that only care about "XXX" OR "YYY", then there are going to be people that like both, and want something in the middle. That is what the G4 is, but specifically, it is a boat that can kick ass racing against all but very few boats while it can also serve as a nice but not incredible cruiser. It can be sailed slowly, and it can be slept in, but more likely than not, it will be used for long day sails 90%+ of the time, and for that it will be awesome.

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Uh - yeah. I assume you are familiar with the Channel Islands. Think day sails out of Santa Barbara would be a good time?

 

Or a weekend aboard at Santa Cruz Island. Bring some kayaks and dive gear along. Yeah - that's the kind of cruiser that works for me!

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Elapsed from today:

 

Phaedo 2:22

Paradox 3:24

GC 3:24

Elvis 3:56

Karabuni 4:15

G4 4:18

Toccato 4:52

 

A bit of a shocker for Paradox. Over an hour back from Phaedo. The G4 also faded today. Not sure if they had a breakage or conditions didn't suit them. Looks like it was a lot lighter today. Explains Paradox's difficulty.

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I'm surprised by the G4 beating the GC 32 but congrads again to the G4 development team!

Something must be wrong with the GC. DNF yesterday and WAY back today. I didn't think it'd like Caribbean conditions but it should beat everything but the 2 big tris handily. It's been refined extensively and is full Grand Prix. Any reports from anyone there?

They only have one board!

So, while the M32's may have been snapping masts, the GC's only snap boards?

I thought this foiling thing was supposed to be easy...

I do like flying boats though, it combines 2 of my favorite things.

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Sailing on Paradox. Interesting day with a wide range of conditions. Big, heavy rain squalls coming over the island on the preceding night with big calmish periods afterwards. We put the code Zero on the boat in the morning in prep. Another big squall washed over the fleet during the start sequences for the first classes (we were last off after the big Maxis). Loic was on Phaedo today. Biog wind shifts and start line corrections. Phaedo stood well off with a timed run that didn't really work out. They haven't really appreciated our "high mode" off the line previously so we considered that with Loick potentially changing their gentle start strategy (and with their handicap and speed they can afford to be gentle), I was worried they might try and get under us and squeeze us out at the start. Loick helmed our first start masterfully... so full respect ( he's done some other s**t too apparently) for being on the receiving end. Anyway, they were miles late. We started mid line on a fairly even line and were happy with clean air and options. Elvis made a good start to leeward of us and we had the GC and G4 back and to windward. Phaedo tacked off once across the line and took a long beat out to sea (east) whilst we went in towards the island shore. I think we did pretty good and rode through the lulls and gusts pretty well. We sailed over the GC and the G4... well it's just ah... not that fast upwind. I fully respect the challenges of Mk1 development and I'm really enjoying watching this one done to this level. It seems like it's being sailed very well. Putting it around a course not of your choosing really highlights the reality of the compromises though. The fact is, your dragging a lot of excess up the course with you. We had full main hull flying conditions up the shore from time to time (not so easy on Paradox i.e. 19-20 knots) which were followed by 10 knot lumpy stuff trying to lay the top of the island. We weren't that far behind Phaedo when they hit the layline but they just tear chunks out of us when it gets lighter. They are two tons lighter with much more sail area and are only getting better and better with the tools. Things even up a little more as it gets stronger (handicap wise at least). We had managed to also put good distance between us and the GC (which was sailing under full rig today). I think Elvis may have been ahead of the G4. The next short reach had us debating whether to hoist the 0 or stay with the solent and peel straight to the big gennaker at the corner. We chose the latter but hated the short period sailing under canvassed. We chased down "Lucky" on the next downwind, but it took a while. It was pretty light. The GC joined us on the leg and promptly jumped onto foils and sailed both deeper and faster on a long starboard gybe. We sailed against two in last years RTIsland race and know how quick they can be. We were sailing pretty clean but they gracefully sailed through us. We couldn't even see who was fourth. On the following beat we were still in touch with the GC, past Lucky and chasing Lupa. We got to watch the G4 heading downwind. It looked like hard work in the marginal foiling conditions i.e. sailing whatever angles it takes and trying everything to get on the foils. It wasn't a good day for a heavy foiling boat. We rounded the next mark still behind the GC and cracked off onto a tight reach which turned into more of a beam reach. The wind had finally returned so that we had full foil down and could sit around 20-23 knots. We caught up and passed the GC pretty quickly... but it was obvious they had issues on Port tack. They should have been smoking too but were still low riding. Anyway... as they say in the classics... "stiff s**t":) So we pushed on, rounded the island further and went to the big gennaker/staysail combo. The GC came around the corner, gybed onto starboard and sure enough... popped onto the foils and took off again. We could see Bella Mente parked up in the distance and knew the race was far from over. There was one mark to round before the 3/4 mile or so beat up to the line. It all looked very light and random in there so we stood off shore. The GC had overtaken us again and the big Swan "Odin" had somehow managed to slide down the inside gifted by it's own personal breeze. We stayed away from the mass of boats as we sailed from one swirl of wind and velocity header to the next. Somehow we rounded the mark just ahead of most of them and then fought our way upwind finally using the 0 in anything from 5-15 knots of wind. After a long period in those super light and fickle conditions we knew the handicap was a lottery but were very happy with the way we sailed through the bunch to claim our own little victory. The GC was a wounded bird so no big conclusions can be drawn there. Phaedo is in another league and I have no idea what they experienced at the finish. Elvis sailed very well and the G4 was a long way back. The G4 really is an interesting boat... so was the Hobie/Ketterman tri-foiler. I'm glad both of them exist. So basically, there was a lot of randomness on todays course. It's a great course and event and a very interesting collection of boats. I'm very much enjoying sailing on Paradox. She's a great ride.

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So the GC32 will be a bigboat (multis) killer in lighter conditions when its working........as it should.

 

...and the G4s ability to foil in lighter conditions is the spot to attack in the future for them...

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So the GC32 will be a bigboat (multis) killer in lighter conditions when its working........as it should.

 

...and the G4s ability to foil in lighter conditions is the spot to attack in the future for them...

 

Got confirmation from GC32s that the Zoulou went for a foil upgrade in Lauderdale to address some of their issues but the work wasn't done well and the fairings may have exploded...meaning some ingenuity to go sailing, but no foiling on port gybe. So she's half a GC32!

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Cruising is not about speed but how easily you do it. When I sailed monos we cruised at 6.5 kts. When I got my Farrier F9 we cruised at 12 kts just me and the land lubber lady. Auto helm on and sipping Chardonnay. If they get they G4 sorted and you can relax on the foils then that's cruising.

Cheers

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I am very excited to see these things start to foil.

 

BUT until the foils are at the bow and stern,

 

AND the foils are fully automatically controlled, in real time, using electronics,

 

Its just screwing around like amateurs. Spending money fast is a sign of a hack, not of good engineering. Like a generator driven maxi instead of a MOD 70, for example.

 

Bad design trades (use hydraulically swinging ballast instead of bouyancy for stability) as on the maxi leads to a painful boat to sail (spilled champagne with tremendous expense in every way).

 

UNTIL those two attributes are incorporated, its going to be expensive and its going to work in only certain conditions, and those conditions will be smooth water and steady STRONG breeze, ...

 

... and it will continue to be somewhat dangerous -- prolly not of certain death, but for sure spilled champagne.

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I know what it is not.

 

You're great at negatives. So what is it? I gave you the options.

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UNTIL those two attributes are incorporated, its going to be expensive and its going to work in only certain conditions, and those conditions will be smooth water and steady STRONG breeze, ...

 

 

 

These foilers are generally more forgiving than an archimedian boat in waves, not less. Do some research.

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Clean, your dope is so much better than mine. I mean, we have nice dispensaries in Los Angleles, but...

 

Oh! Its the shrooms, right?

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Seriously, if you want to understand, let me know.

 

But if we are just hanging around the yacht club bar drinking, then we can just act like ignorant children, that is fun too.

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Seriously, if you want to understand, let me know.

 

But if we are just hanging around the yacht club bar drinking, then we can just act like ignorant children, that is fun too.

 

My point is this - I drove a GC32 in 5' seas and 25-30 knots of seabreeze with zero problems at all, and I've driven multihulls for maybe a dozen hours in my life. Even when you think the bow is about to crash down into a trough, there's so much reserve lift that there is never, ever a hard landing. Upwind foiling means you can keep the hulls above the majority of the waves.

 

How much time do you have in waves aboard foilers?

Clean, your dope is so much better than mine. I mean, we have nice dispensaries in Los Angleles, but...

 

Oh! Its the shrooms, right?

 

I am a registered grower. Give me a ring next time you're in the midwest ;)

 

Haven't been able to find shrooms for years though. Too old to know anyone!

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I know what it is not.

 

You're great at negatives. So what is it? I gave you the options.

 

 

No, actually, you confined the options and the negatives are all inclusive as a function of critical analysis. Declaring that it is not a cruiser is a positive. Now, the boys can start describing it appropriately as a race boat in which one can camp out if the ladies don't mind the airborne shitter.... and they will. So, NO CRUISING FOR YOU!

 

Why are you so damn desperate to shill the ride, Clean? Has your sense of objectivity been so disqualified that you are willing to gargle the stones with such alacrity? It's neither fish, nor fowl and I get it, completely. I design boats like this myself, but one should not try to spin such a whirlwind of hype that the truth has been dumbed-down to that of the shillmeister.

 

Speak to truth, Alan. One would think that you guys would have learned this fact from the Dan Meyer episode.

 

.

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I know what it is not.

You're great at negatives. So what is it? I gave you the options.

It's upside down, that what it is-

 

Disruptive technology is disrupting

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Seriously, if you want to understand, let me know.

 

But if we are just hanging around the yacht club bar drinking, then we can just act like ignorant children, that is fun too.

 

My point is this - I drove a GC32 in 5' seas and 25-30 knots of seabreeze with zero problems at all, and I've driven multihulls for maybe a dozen hours in my life. Even when you think the bow is about to crash down into a trough, there's so much reserve lift that there is never, ever a hard landing. Upwind foiling means you can keep the hulls above the majority of the waves.

 

How much time do you have in waves aboard foilers?

Clean, your dope is so much better than mine. I mean, we have nice dispensaries in Los Angleles, but...

 

Oh! Its the shrooms, right?

 

I am a registered grower. Give me a ring next time you're in the midwest ;)

 

Haven't been able to find shrooms for years though. Too old to know anyone!

 

 

 

Hulls almost entirely above the waves once you've turtled it!! LOL!!

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Oh shit - just spilled my Chardonnay.

 

 

Johnstone didn't spill his!!

 

post-16558-0-08420500-1429380076_thumb.j

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Ok jokes appart, does anyone really knows what happened, or we will have to wait for an official press release, within ... two months

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Other thread started earlier on SA, but no more info yet....

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