• Announcements

    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.
    • B.J. Porter

      Moderation Team Change   06/16/2017

      After fifteen years of volunteer moderation at SA, I will no longer be part of the moderation team. The decision to step aside is mine, and has been some time in the works but we did not wish to announce it in advance for a number of reasons. It's been fun, but I need my time back for other purposes now. The Underdawg admin account will not be monitored until further notice, as I will be relinquishing control of it along with my administrative privileges. Zapata will continue on as a moderator, and any concerns or issues can be directed to that account or to the Editor until further notice. Anyone interested in helping moderate the forums should reach out to Scot by sending a PM to the Editor account. Please note that I am not leaving the community, I am merely stepping aside from Admin responsibilities and privileges on the site.

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

TackSea

Selling my boat and potential buyer

11 posts in this topic

My catalina 30 is in dry storage , if a potential buyer wants to see the boat on the water , who pays for the launch ?

We don't have a slip anymore so the boat will have to be hauld out if not purchased.

Thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Need more details. What year is the boat? If it is an older boat, you may want to just pony up so you can unload the thing. I sold my 1967 Ericson 26 for a 12 pack because I had to move with a quickness and nobody wanted to buy a boat that old. I did hold out for a micro brew, though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Standard procedure for such transaction: would be buyer makes offer, then counter offer etc until an agreed upon price, then sea trails (expenses negotiable), if pass sea trials, survey paid by buyer.

 

I have purchased and sold many boats, always did it like this.

 

No free rides without signed agreed price, possibly adjustable later based on results of sea trials/survey.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As Kim says, prospective buyer has to return the boat to the same place and condition as it was. That means the buyer pays for launch and commissioning (if needed) and return to storage if the deal isn't completed. As a buyer, i would adjust my offer based on this cost and perform a thorough "pre-survey" and then the out of the water survey and possibly apply bottom paint (depending on my level of confidence in the boat) prior to launching for the sea trial.

 

In this case, it's a Catalina 30. They built about 10,000 of them and a smart buyer could probably get a sail on one by contacting the IC30A. I have purchased a boat out of storage without a sea trial and shipped it 1/2 way across the country. It was a production boat and the deal was lucrative. I had a pretty good idea how it would sail and it met those expectations.

 

If you really want to sell and the buyer really wants to buy, anything can be worked out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Clove Hitch , it's a very clean 82 .

Kim & I B , thanks , i appreciate your advices .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As Kim says, prospective buyer has to return the boat to the same place and condition as it was. That means the buyer pays for launch and commissioning (if needed) and return to storage if the deal isn't completed. As a buyer, i would adjust my offer based on this cost and perform a thorough "pre-survey" and then the out of the water survey and possibly apply bottom paint (depending on my level of confidence in the boat) prior to launching for the sea trial.

 

In this case, it's a Catalina 30. They built about 10,000 of them and a smart buyer could probably get a sail on one by contacting the IC30A. I have purchased a boat out of storage without a sea trial and shipped it 1/2 way across the country. It was a production boat and the deal was lucrative. I had a pretty good idea how it would sail and it met those expectations.

 

If you really want to sell and the buyer really wants to buy, anything can be worked out.

 

As a broker of 30+ years... the norm is that the buyer pays for any expenses to launch and commission for sea trials and survey and then return the boat to its place if the deal cannot be completed, based on the findings. All of which should be covered in a well written contract of sale. Having a "pretty good idea as to how it will sail" based on a sister-ship is not the point her at all. You definitely want to have a complete survey. Without an acceptable survey the boat is un-insurable. If financing is involved, any lender will require survey and insurance as well.

 

That brings up another issue --- a deposit or earnest money. Should the buyer and seller agree to what we are saying above and.after. launch, sea trails and survey, the buyer decides to back out and refuse to close the sale. The Owner is holding all the bills for launching and commissioning. The yard will collect its expenses from the owner not the buyer. After-all the yard has a relationship with the owner not the Buyer. Futhermore the yard has the power of a mechanic's lein against the title, to enforce it. I have witnessed several cases of FSBO (for sale by owner) that ended that way.

 

On the other hand the Buyer should be very wary of the safety of his deposit $$ in the hands of a stranger. There is no assurance the Buyer will ever get his deposit back should the sale not close. The deposit money should not only represent good faith on the Buyers part, but also be readily available to cover expenses that occurred. Therefore the Buyer should insist that an independent party hold any earnest money until the sale closes satisfactory to all parties.

 

All this points out the value of a Professional Broker. I realize there are few brokers will want to deal with a sale that pays very little commission as may be realized in the sale of an older Cat 30, but just want to point out some of the pitfalls of FSBO transactions, in general.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FWIW I have always used a professional broker for my many boat transactions. He and I are good friends by now.

 

He has been worth his commission many times over for a variety of reasons mainly because he is a true honest professional and really knows how to keep a transaction moving forward to a happy conclusion.

 

Find a good broker and many of the FSBO pitfalls can be avoided.

 

I have a saying: "Paul Jenkins, don't buy or sell a boat without him." (Elliott Bay Yacht Sales.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

As Kim says, prospective buyer has to return the boat to the same place and condition as it was. That means the buyer pays for launch and commissioning (if needed) and return to storage if the deal isn't completed. As a buyer, i would adjust my offer based on this cost and perform a thorough "pre-survey" and then the out of the water survey and possibly apply bottom paint (depending on my level of confidence in the boat) prior to launching for the sea trial.

 

In this case, it's a Catalina 30. They built about 10,000 of them and a smart buyer could probably get a sail on one by contacting the IC30A. I have purchased a boat out of storage without a sea trial and shipped it 1/2 way across the country. It was a production boat and the deal was lucrative. I had a pretty good idea how it would sail and it met those expectations.

 

If you really want to sell and the buyer really wants to buy, anything can be worked out.

 

As a broker of 30+ years... the norm is that the buyer pays for any expenses to launch and commission for sea trials and survey and then return the boat to its place if the deal cannot be completed, based on the findings. All of which should be covered in a well written contract of sale. Having a "pretty good idea as to how it will sail" based on a sister-ship is not the point her at all. You definitely want to have a complete survey. Without an acceptable survey the boat is un-insurable. If financing is involved, any lender will require survey and insurance as well.

 

That brings up another issue --- a deposit or earnest money. Should the buyer and seller agree to what we are saying above and.after. launch, sea trails and survey, the buyer decides to back out and refuse to close the sale. The Owner is holding all the bills for launching and commissioning. The yard will collect its expenses from the owner not the buyer. After-all the yard has a relationship with the owner not the Buyer. Futhermore the yard has the power of a mechanic's lein against the title, to enforce it. I have witnessed several cases of FSBO (for sale by owner) that ended that way.

 

On the other hand the Buyer should be very wary of the safety of his deposit $$ in the hands of a stranger. There is no assurance the Buyer will ever get his deposit back should the sale not close. The deposit money should not only represent good faith on the Buyers part, but also be readily available to cover expenses that occurred. Therefore the Buyer should insist that an independent party hold any earnest money until the sale closes satisfactory to all parties.

 

All this points out the value of a Professional Broker. I realize there are few brokers will want to deal with a sale that pays very little commission as may be realized in the sale of an older Cat 30, but just want to point out some of the pitfalls of FSBO transactions, in general.

All good points.

 

I've had good brokers and bad, great surveyors and ones who missed obvious faults. As an engineer with 50 years of sailing and a 35 year career in aviation and marine maintenance and support, I do a pretty mean pre-survey before making an offer and calling in a pro. A 30 year old boat that will sell for 20k plus or minus may or may not require a survey for a loan or insurance depending on the transaction, lender and underwriter. I currently own 3 boats. One requires a survey for insurance. Two (sub $20K insured value) do not. All three policies are with a well known marine underwriter.

 

Commission, launch, haul, survey, mechanical survey, rigger and sailmaker inspections and brokers commission all add up to 20% or more of the purchase price. In this part of the market, a FSBO is more likely and you rightly point out some of the pitfalls of that approach. My point is that cost of a sea trial is a buyer's expense and you don't always need a sea trial to make a deal. I bought a winterized boat in Chicago and it left town on a hauler without getting wet. A well written contract and an escrow account for items not tested with clear procedures for release of escrow does work. With a good out of the water survey (formal or not), the buyer should have a good understanding of the boats condition and a sea trial doesn't add much to that understanding beyond an evaluation of the mechanical condition of the running gear.

 

Not knocking brokers. For a higher dollar deal, always. At the lower priced portion of the market, it is less clear.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I sold a few that never went in the water.

 

Boat yards get kind of irritated when you put up sails with a boat on stands. Hey, it was a dead calm summer morning! We got a quick look and we were done before they complained. ;)

 

You can run the engine on land, just find a way to get water to it.

 

It's pretty easy to figure the value of a Catalina 30. For the same reason, it's usually pretty easy for a buyer to find one that is already in the water or otherwise more conveniently located. But if it's in the water, people usually want to pick it up and look at the bottom. You pay some money or you take your chances...

 

If a buyer wants to pay for a travel lift, that's nice, but remember that checks can be cancelled and heed Jerry Cann's warning above.

 

If a buyer wants to take his chances and save the money for the boat fund, that works out pretty often too with inexpensive boats.

 

You never know what they're going to do. I just sold that old Com-Pac 16 that was briefly featured in "Mocking Ads" and it was a thoroughly strange transaction.

 

Nice old couple came out here and really only looked at the boat from the outside. Didn't get in the cabin or even the cockpit. I offered to run the outboard, but he said he'd take my word for it that it ran. They paid my asking price without even questioning it by personal check and left. Moments later, I noticed the gas tank. I raced out to give it to them. Hours later, I noticed the sails. The ones they never even asked to look at. Fortunately, they don't live too far away, so I delivered them the next day.

 

You'd think I had never sold a boat before. And you'd think they had never bought anything before. But it worked out. I guess they could still cancel that check, but it really doesn't seem like much of a risk in this case.

 

We had no intention of taking a personal check and it's not a good idea as a general rule. But if someone starts writing your asking price on a check, do you really want to stop that process? I considered it briefly and took the check.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My catalina 30 is in dry storage , if a potential buyer wants to see the boat on the water , who pays for the launch ?

We don't have a slip anymore so the boat will have to be hauld out if not purchased.

Thanks

Send him/her a picture :)

 

Note, I have bought 2 boats sight unseen and as it turned out from the same seller! We are almost friends now and I wonder what he ll sell next?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites