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Matagi

Beneteau 40.7 Cheeki Rafiki missing Mid-Atlantic

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Search for the liferaft called off very quickly given that there was a sighting of the upturned hull by a container ship? This was a commercially coded vessel which in the UK means it must have been carrying an EPIRB.

 

I was almost on this delivery, absolutely shocking and very close to home.

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the article says the epirb was activated giving 'general gps co-ordinates' wft does that mean? I thought those things were pretty accurate.

 

hope the crew finds a way thru - those are gnarly conditions to be in a life raft

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US Coast Guard spokesman Rob Simpson said it had "saturated the area" in a two-day search and "we would have found them" if it had been possible.

...

Three US and Canadian aircraft and three merchant vessels looked for them on Friday and Saturday 1,000 miles east of Cape Cod, Massachusetts.

...

Winds were said to have been blowing at more than 50mph, the sea reached heights of up to 20ft and visibility was reduced to under a mile.

...

an overturned hull had been spotted by a container ship involved in the search "that did look like it may have been the sailing vessel". However, the ship did not stop to inspect the hull because nobody was seen on board.

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So a ship spotted an upturned hull in the general area that an EPIRB has been set off, and does not investigate. What the fuck!? That is truly terrible. I hope the owners of that vessel are unable to sleep at night.

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>>US Coast Guard spokesman Rob Simpson said it had "saturated the area" in a two-day search and "we would have found them" if it had been possible.

...

Three US and Canadian aircraft and three merchant vessels looked for them on Friday and Saturday 1,000 miles east of Cape Cod, Massachusetts.

...

Winds were said to have been blowing at more than 50mph, the sea reached heights of up to 20ft and visibility was reduced to under a mile.

...

an overturned hull had been spotted by a container ship involved in the search "that did look like it may have been the sailing vessel". However, the ship did not stop to inspect the hull because nobody was seen on board.

 

This container ship not standing by and trying to confirm anything, like name of vessel, anyone inside, is just frightening. Whats the fucking hurry???

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^ perhaps weather conditions prevented standing by the over-turned hull. We probably don't know all the facts. If it WAS possible to stand by, and the ship just hurried on to keep schedule, then the captain has a lot of 'splainin' to do.

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From the article it sounded like the EPIRB that they received was from a personal EPIRB rather than the boats main one. That might explain the vague co-ordinates and the short battery life?

 

Coast guard spokesman Mr Simpson told the BBC on Sunday that two of the yachtmen's locator beacons had been activated, providing it with some "general GPS co-ordinates".

 

The spokesman said: 'We searched with multiple assets over 4,000 square miles for pings from the vessel's personal locator beacons.

'After receiving no more transmissions we believe that we would have found them by now if we were going to find them.

'These beacons are small devices and the ones being used have a very short battery life.'

 

Raises the question of why the main EPIRB was not activated, maybe a sudden capsize, especially if the keel failed as some reports say the upturned hull had no keel.

 

Also sailworld fucking up big time with a picture of a Delher 34 labelled as 'Cheeki Rafiki - Antigua Race Week'

 

http://www.sail-world.com/UK/Four-British-yachtsmen-lost-at-sea---Yacht-Cheeki-Rafiki/122248

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Guardian article has more info on the crew,

 

The four were described as very experienced yachtsmen and Bridge, the youngest of the group, as a highly qualified skipper.

It is believed that Goslin and Warren, who were coastal skippers, had volunteered to do the transatlantic crossing.

Bridge had two high-level yachtmaster qualifications from the Royal Yachtmaster Association that meant he could skipper a yacht a minimum non-stop distance of 600 miles.

To qualify for the yachtmaster ocean certificate, a skipper must have been at sea continuously for at least 96 hours and the yacht must have been more than 50 miles from land while sailing a distance of at least 200 miles.

Bridge, nicknamed "the bear", was described as "undoubtedly one of the top bowmen in the country" in a biography on Stormforce's website. It said: "He was formerly bowman onboard Encore (First 40.7) when it won its fleet in the 2010 Round Britain & Ireland Race and was the 1st First 40.7 in the Fastnet 2009 race.

"He has won numerous RORC English channel races and has raced onboard Cheeki Rafiki with Ifan countless times, again with several podium positions to his name. Andy is a yachtmaster offshore and keelboat instructor."

The 21-year-old is believed to have competed in the Royal Ocean Racing Club Caribbean 600 event in Antigua in February this year, taking the role of first mate on the Cheeki Rafiki for the four-day race involving 60 boats.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/may/18/four-british-yachtsmen-missing-atlantic

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The US Coast Guard were in the same piece of real estate on Thursday. http://www.uscgnews.com/go/doc/4007/2163686/ That's a rescue that went well.

 

Sounds like this yooung man had a Yachtmaster Ocean, many schools fast track this qualification and have devalued it.

 

 

Let's hope for the best, if they are in a liferaft with no EPIRB, there is a good chance they would not be spotted from the air, but they are in a high traffic area this time of year.

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It's yachtmaster offshore, very few people have Ocean it requires some serious miles, astronav etc.

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I have an Ocean but got it in the dark ages. Pre GPS.

 

Sounds like this guy had done some miles though,

 

Crossing fingers again.

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^ perhaps weather conditions prevented standing by the over-turned hull. We probably don't know all the facts. If it WAS possible to stand by, and the ship just hurried on to keep schedule, then the captain has a lot of 'splainin' to do.

to whom?

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UK sources report that boat was carrying an EPIRB but it was not activated. 2 PLB EPIRBs were activated, about 30 mins apart.

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UK sources report that boat was carrying an EPIRB but it was not activated. 2 PLB EPIRBs were activated, about 30 mins apart.

 

Most PLBs require manual activation, right?

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This stinks. EPIRB did not deploy? Liferaft is not spotted and it's 20ft waves? Don't you guys give up on me after 36hrs of search in those conditions!

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If the boat had an EPIRB, and it wasn't activated, then it's reasonable to conclude:

A) It didn't work, or

B) The crew had to abandon hastily, and didn't have time to activate it.

I hope the crew are found, but it's a mighty big ocean, especially if the CG gave up searching.

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New press release from Stormforce Coaching (Sunday evening UK time): http://www.stormforce.biz/rafiki-press-release.html

 

They are still trying to persuade CG to resume search efforts and thank crew of Maersk Kure for staying in and searching the area in question.

 

Given the location apparently being m/l exactly between Cape Cod and the Azores, shouldn't the Portuguese CG / Navy also be active in the search? What's the SOP in international waters so far offshore?

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If its not a GPS enabled EPIRB, then all you get is a elliptical error of probability...an ellipse, the shape and orientation of which is wholly dependent upon the ephemeral orientation of the satellite to the beacon. IOW, if the bird s on the horizon and the beacon isn't GPS enabled, the elliptical error of probability can be huge....tens of thousands of sq. miles.

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This is not good news . Taking on water , disorientation for the crew at night in big seas. Epirbs deployed. I just hope they got into that liferaft all of them. As to the container ship ,they done all they can. It's impossible for a container ship to stop in big seas. I hope a search continues for the lads by sea and air. Come home safely guys.

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The US coastguard have been out there and I have to trust they have searched by the book. I understand the container ship did what it could, but had no capability to put a small boat safely in the water to check the status of the upturned hull.

 

Having said all that, I'm sitting here in the sunshine of a English summer morning in a very dark place, thinking about four souls who could be out there in the cold clinging to life, perhaps only hanging on in the hope that help is on the way. Can I ask that Anarchists in the US try and apply some pressure to your authorities to get the search going again? The families here are just not getting anywhere.

 

Perhaps Mrs Obama can pop up with a tearful video and get something going... or are four Brits not worth a hanky?

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I just can't believe that the US coast guards just abandon people like this. In a survival suit you can last a long time in the water. If some American yacht had sunk in our bit of the Atlantic, even if we are in trouble financially, we would try much harder than this!

 

Worst of all, the guys probably saw the container ship sailing away, that must be the most disheartening thing that can happen while you are in the water!

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The petition has just piled through 13,000 signatures... Let's keep the pressure up.

 

https://www.change.o...ki-crew-members

 

Looks like comments on the USCG website have been removed.

 

I'm getting angrier as every hour of delay goes by. Get those bloody planes in the air; evidence suggests they may be in a life raft... There is no way the UK rescue services would have given up so quickly if it was on our patch.

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Actually the closest piece of land is Bermuda, they do a great job of coordinating rescues. I do agree the search shuuld have lasted longer, and be ongoing, but it shows a lack oof understanding of geography too claim it's on America's "patch".

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A very sad situation indeed.

 

Unless and until sailors and delivery crews wake up these situations will continue.

 

First, we must accept that technology has moved on significantly since the 406 MHz EPIRB.

 

Just so you know where I'm coming from, I arrived in Manila, Philippines, on Sunday on a delivery from Hong Kong. I used a Yellow Brick which enabled everyone who was interested ashore to track my progress in two hourly increments. When I arrived in Manila, 69 hours after departure, the Yellow Brick battery was showing 87%.

 

Had it been necessary for me and the crew to take to the life raft, we could have continued to accurately transmit our position for a month.

 

I don't sell Yellow Brick or have an interest in their business, I just find it incredibly sad that sailors in 2014 rely on 1990s technology when they go to sea.

 

While I join with all on this site in hoping for a good outcome, sadly, it doesn't look good.

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Actually the closest piece of land is Bermuda, they do a great job of coordinating rescues. I do agree the search shuuld have lasted longer, and be ongoing, but it shows a lack oof understanding of geography too claim it's on America's "patch".

Technically, the USCG NE district provides SAR coverage out to 1,300 NM depending on the actual situation. This is "in their patch" at 1,000 NM but is also about 1,000 NM from the Azores and significantly less from Newfoundland or Bermuda.

 

No ships show up on AIS currently in the area. 50 knot winds, 60 degree air and water. No EPIRB. Old PLB CEP. Nothing presently broadcasting. No apparent knowledge of survival suits. Best case survival estimates at 20 hours. Search went for 53 hours.

 

Hard to fault shutting down the search. Sorry for the loss and sympathy for the families.

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Anecdotally (as I understand it, wasn't on the phone myself), the conversation between CG and UK authorities went something like this:

CG: We are planning to suspend the search. Are you going to send any assets out to continue?

UK: No, you have already conducted a more thorough search than we would have anyway...

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Best case survival estimates at 20 hours. Search went for 53 hours.

Hard to fault shutting down the search. Sorry for the loss and sympathy for the families.

 

Innocent B, Cheeki Rafiki carried a 12 man liferaft and the admittedly thin evidence or PLB's being triggered at intervals points to one or more of the four crew boarding. I would also guess that they would have all had at least basic sea survival training. The RYA over here are suggesting the raft would have had survival suits, though it is likely that they may be referring to the foil affairs rather than proper immersion suits. Does the 20 hour survival time you mention take that into account? I am no offshore survival expert, but is it really not possible for them to still be hanging on?

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Not to be a Debbie Downer, but it's only presumed the crew was able to deploy and climb on liferaft. If the boat had capsized or sunk suddenly, there may not have been time. This would explain no EPIRB from the boat, just the PLB signals. I hope thats not the case, and the crew are in a raft waiting to be spotted.

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Actually the closest piece of land is Bermuda, they do a great job of coordinating rescues. I do agree the search shuuld have lasted longer, and be ongoing, but it shows a lack oof understanding of geography too claim it's on America's "patch".

Technically, the USCG NE district provides SAR coverage out to 1,300 NM depending on the actual situation. This is "in their patch" at 1,000 NM but is also about 1,000 NM from the Azores and significantly less from Newfoundland or Bermuda.

 

No ships show up on AIS currently in the area. 50 knot winds, 60 degree air and water. No EPIRB. Old PLB CEP. Nothing presently broadcasting. No apparent knowledge of survival suits. Best case survival estimates at 20 hours. Search went for 53 hours.

 

Hard to fault shutting down the search. Sorry for the loss and sympathy for the families.

If they've managed to board the raft and have oilies on, they can last until they run out of food.

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The boat didn't sink. These pics from the passing freighter show it afloat inverted. It looks like the keel had gone. That could explain where the water was coming in. Reports suggest they were taking water but couldn't find the source. I guess it's possible that when the keel finally let go it went too fast to launch the raft, or hopefully it went slower and they're all sat in the raft at the moment.

 

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27473507

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Actually the closest piece of land is Bermuda, they do a great job of coordinating rescues. I do agree the search shuuld have lasted longer, and be ongoing, but it shows a lack oof understanding of geography too claim it's on America's "patch".

 

Technically, the USCG NE district provides SAR coverage out to 1,300 NM depending on the actual situation. This is "in their patch" at 1,000 NM but is also about 1,000 NM from the Azores and significantly less from Newfoundland or Bermuda.

No ships show up on AIS currently in the area. 50 knot winds, 60 degree air and water. No EPIRB. Old PLB CEP. Nothing presently broadcasting. No apparent knowledge of survival suits. Best case survival estimates at 20 hours. Search went for 53 hours.

Hard to fault shutting down the search. Sorry for the loss and sympathy for the families.

If they've managed to board the raft and have oilies on, they can last until they run out of food.

If they have done that, protocol would suggest cycling the PLBs every hour or so to extend the battery life. With at least 2 having been activated and then no longer transmitting, there is at lease an implied outcome. With and upturned hull, they would have a drift prediction for a raft and the raft should have a radar reflective hood. Sea state makes detection a lot more difficult, but I'm assuming a thorough search of likely locations.

 

How long would you suggest they search?

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The hull is floating very low in the water, and unfortunately, it's unlikely anyone could survive inside of it.

 

 

post-290-0-71571900-1400512113_thumb.jpg

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Actually the closest piece of land is Bermuda, they do a great job of coordinating rescues. I do agree the search shuuld have lasted longer, and be ongoing, but it shows a lack oof understanding of geography too claim it's on America's "patch".

Technically, the USCG NE district provides SAR coverage out to 1,300 NM depending on the actual situation. This is "in their patch" at 1,000 NM but is also about 1,000 NM from the Azores and significantly less from Newfoundland or Bermuda.

 

No ships show up on AIS currently in the area. 50 knot winds, 60 degree air and water. No EPIRB. Old PLB CEP. Nothing presently broadcasting. No apparent knowledge of survival suits. Best case survival estimates at 20 hours. Search went for 53 hours.

 

Hard to fault shutting down the search. Sorry for the loss and sympathy for the families.

If they've managed to board the raft and have oilies on, they can last until they run out of food water.

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Unless my eyes are worse than I thought, that looks like a rudder and a black spot, forward, where the keel was once affixed. But what's the gray triangle-shaped area?

 

post-768-0-23253200-1400513031_thumb.jpg

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Where's the link to the photos from the container ship? Or is that the only photo ?

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Unless my eyes are worse than I thought, that looks like a rudder and a black spot, forward, where the keel was once affixed. But what's the gray triangle-shaped area?

 

attachicon.gifben40closeup.jpg

 

 

i think it's just bottom paint

 

the white area around it is where the paint is obscured by breaking waves

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Possibly when the keel fell off, it took a bit of the outer laminate with it?

Unless my eyes are worse than I thought, that looks like a rudder and a black spot, forward, where the keel was once affixed. But what's the gray triangle-shaped area?

 

ben40closeup.jpg

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If they have done that, protocol would suggest cycling the PLBs every hour or so to extend the battery life. With at least 2 having been activated and then no longer transmitting, there is at lease an implied outcome. With and upturned hull, they would have a drift prediction for a raft and the raft should have a radar reflective hood. Sea state makes detection a lot more difficult, but I'm assuming a thorough search of likely locations.

 

How long would you suggest they search?

A week may be.

 

For Grain de soleil ( http://www.sudouest.fr/2013/05/06/faits-divers-1045372-4584.php ) which disappeared in similar conditions, the French authorities stopped searching after 11 days.

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I'm gonna try to be real popular here... (and my heart does go out to the crew and their families for the unfolding tragedy and loss ).

 

How many of you who signed that petition also had negative things to say about the 'cost of rescue' for the Rebel Heart crew? (just wonderin')

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Steve Callahan spent 76 days alone in a raft with only his 'panic' bag after getting separated from his still floating but swamped Mini. Ate moss and barnacles off the bottom of the raft but what really saved him was a mini speargun that he stuck in the duffel with his emergency gear until he could figure out a better place to stow it. He drifted from near the Canaries all the way to Guadelope in less time that some of these rowing expeditions have taken but was pretty emaciated upon arrival. He did suffer from the long fast a week or so after due to his system not being able to process the sudden intake of food. His family lobbied for weeks for continued search efforts and there was much bitterness over the search being discontinued.

 

A must read for anyone sailing offshore.

 

http://www.bookrags.com/studyguide-adrift/

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They're still looking for that Malaysian plane that went down. Are those folks likely to be alive?

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I'm gonna try to be real popular here... (and my heart does go out to the crew and their families for the unfolding tragedy and loss ).

 

How many of you who signed that petition also had negative things to say about the 'cost of rescue' for the Rebel Heart crew? (just wonderin')

 

That would be me. But this is a boat that was taking on water, had an EPIRB go off, and is probably now upside down. If that isn't distress I don't know what is. Rebel Heart wasn't in distress, they were uncomfortable and wanted to get off their boat.

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I still think these type of losses will continue with the way keels have been bolted to hull skins in modern production boats. Sad news.. I hope they find these guys but the stats dont look good.

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are Bene 40.7s known for losing keels?

Sympathy to the families and friends.

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Appears to be a very high aspect fin keel, from looking at Google images. I was not able to find construction details, or how it was attached to hull online. But, based upon the photo from the container ship, the keel did fall off. The crew may not had time for an orderly abandon ship.

are Bene 40.7s known for losing keels?

 

Sympathy to the families and friends.

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I have to agree.

 

I still think these type of losses will continue with the way keels have been bolted to hull skins in modern production boats. Sad news.. I hope they find these guys but the stats dont look good.

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Bene 40.7s have been around for awhile - maybe this one was damaged, etc. Certainly not confidence inspiring.

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QUestion: I don't know much about the ARC rallies, but it looks like on the yellow brick tracker, (http://worldcruising.com/arc_europe/eventfleetviewer.aspx) a bunch of boats left Bermuda a few days ago headed for the Azores which is where Cheeki was diverting to.

 

some really quick math makes it look feasible that some of the fast boats could be in this area in the next couple days, I'm sure they've all been notified to be on the lookout for rafts and the upturned hull ? Cheeki wasn't part of this rally was she ? That's a lot of sailors going through what I presume to be a good chunk of the search area, yes ?

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Certainly possible the boat had grounded at some point while in the Carribbean, or had hit a floating object earlier in the delivery. I wouldn't point a finger at Beneteau just yet, while so much is still unknown. But if I owned a 40.7 I would have it hauled and surveyed ASAP, just in case. I wish I could find photos detailing the structure and keel attachment online. Wasn't able to find anything.

 

Bene 40.7s have been around for awhile - maybe this one was damaged, etc. Certainly not confidence inspiring.

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Its only possible to see 10-12 square miles from the deck of a sailboat. Less in waves. It would be a stroke of blind luck to spot a raft, and a miracle to spot people in the water (if that is the case).

QUestion: I don't know much about the ARC rallies, but it looks like on the yellow brick tracker, (http://worldcruising.com/arc_europe/eventfleetviewer.aspx) a bunch of boats left Bermuda a few days ago headed for the Azores which is where Cheeki was diverting to.

 

some really quick math makes it look feasible that some of the fast boats could be in this area in the next couple days, I'm sure they've all been notified to be on the lookout for rafts and the upturned hull ? Cheeki wasn't part of this rally was she ? That's a lot of sailors going through what I presume to be a good chunk of the search area, yes ?

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Below article from Pressure drop:

 

The Telegraph reports that what appears the overturned hull of the missing Cheeki Rafiki has been located by the container ship
Maersk Kure, taken on Saturday.


84869162432826847373.jpg

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I'm sure they've all been notified to be on the lookout for rafts and the upturned hull ?

Yes - the Notice to Mariners / Notice to Airmen will continue for the immediate future.

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First 40.7s have no history of keel failures.

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First 40.7s have no history of keel failures.

 

They might now.

 

God be with those guys and their families. This really sucks.

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Unless my eyes are worse than I thought, that looks like a rudder and a black spot, forward, where the keel was once affixed. But what's the gray triangle-shaped area?

 

attachicon.gifben40closeup.jpg

 

 

i think it's just bottom paint

 

the white area around it is where the paint is obscured by breaking waves

Yeah, you're right, thanks!

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Bottom paint appears to be white in this photo:

http://www.google.com/search?q=cheeki+rafiki&safe=off&client=ms-android-metropcs-us&hl=en&source=android-launcher-widget&v=133247963&prmd=ivns&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=g2l6U5GxCMyhqAaX54AY&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ#i=16

I still think the dark area on overturned hull could be some of the outer laminate ripped off by the failing keel.

 

 

 

Unless my eyes are worse than I thought, that looks like a rudder and a black spot, forward, where the keel was once affixed. But what's the gray triangle-shaped area?

 

attachicon.gifben40closeup.jpg

 

i think it's just bottom paint

 

the white area around it is where the paint is obscured by breaking waves

Yeah, you're right, thanks!

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I think the really dark area is the saildrive leg, There's a bigger copy of the photo here, looks L shaped. Memory of walking past a few 40.7s on the hard says that the prop is quite far forward.

 

article-2632543-1DFEF4A600000578-656_102

 

This photo, which I think is from Antigua seems to show dark grey antifoul too.

 

asw14-3045_CheekiRafiki.jpg

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I think the really dark area is the saildrive leg, There's a bigger copy of the photo here, looks L shaped. Memory of walking past a few 40.7s on the hard says that the prop is quite far forward.

 

article-2632543-1DFEF4A600000578-656_102

 

This photo, which I think is from Antigua seems to show dark grey antifoul too.

 

asw14-3045_CheekiRafiki.jpg

 

 

We are told the conditions "50 mph winds and 20 ft seas" played a part in the decision to call off the search.

 

They were reported to be in difficulty on Friday night and the photo was reported to have been taken on Saturday.

 

Am I the only one wondering where those "50 mph winds and 20 ft seas" are in the photo?

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Seems shameful to have called off the search. The dudes might be out there and not even in the drinking-their-own-piss stage.

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I think the really dark area is the saildrive leg, There's a bigger copy of the photo here, looks L shaped. Memory of walking past a few 40.7s on the hard says that the prop is quite far forward.

 

article-2632543-1DFEF4A600000578-656_102

 

This photo, which I think is from Antigua seems to show dark grey antifoul too.

 

asw14-3045_CheekiRafiki.jpg

 

We are told the conditions "50 mph winds and 20 ft seas" played a part in the decision to call off the search.

 

They were reported to be in difficulty on Friday night and the photo was reported to have been taken on Saturday.

 

Am I the only one wondering where those "50 mph winds and 20 ft seas" are in the photo?

My guess is that the 40.7 is in the lee of the container ship. That would make things look an awful lot calmer.

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At a more fundamental level, is it that recreational yachtsmen are not the priority with Rescue authorities they perhaps once were?

Unless you are in Nav Area X where the Australians seem to use every search as a chance to take the hardware for a good run.

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Its only possible to see 10-12 square miles from the deck of a sailboat. Less in waves. It would be a stroke of blind luck to spot a raft, and a miracle to spot people in the water (if that is the case).

QUestion: I don't know much about the ARC rallies, but it looks like on the yellow brick tracker, (http://worldcruising.com/arc_europe/eventfleetviewer.aspx) a bunch of boats left Bermuda a few days ago headed for the Azores which is where Cheeki was diverting to.

 

some really quick math makes it look feasible that some of the fast boats could be in this area in the next couple days, I'm sure they've all been notified to be on the lookout for rafts and the upturned hull ? Cheeki wasn't part of this rally was she ? That's a lot of sailors going through what I presume to be a good chunk of the search area, yes ?

PAC Cup I found 3-5 miles was about it for spotting other competitors while standing on the boom. 10+ miles for a life raft sticking up less than 6ft in the air, not going to happen...

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Dum question time. if no epirb on the boat activated how did the ship get so close as chances of seeing a grey rudder above the water in 5m seas is nil and it would be very small radar target.

You would have to be lucky.

 

Unless the plb signal were not in the same place to indicate not both in a raft you would be looking for people in the water. Might by why the search was scaled back so quickly.

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If they were taking on water then surely they should have started initial prep in case they did have to abandon so they may have been better prepared for it than if it came out of the blue

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First 40.7s have no history of keel failures.

 

Barracuda, First 40.7 returning home from the 2007 Chicago Mac, lost her keel ... but she had most definitely run aground.

 

Thoughts and prayers, brothers. We're all hoping for your safe return.

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Yes, which is why I said SQUARE miles. If you were looking for something, you'd look 360 degrees around.

 

 

Its only possible to see 10-12 square miles from the deck of a sailboat. Less in waves. It would be a stroke of blind luck to spot a raft, and a miracle to spot people in the water (if that is the case).

 

QUestion: I don't know much about the ARC rallies, but it looks like on the yellow brick tracker, (http://worldcruising.com/arc_europe/eventfleetviewer.aspx) a bunch of boats left Bermuda a few days ago headed for the Azores which is where Cheeki was diverting to.

 

some really quick math makes it look feasible that some of the fast boats could be in this area in the next couple days, I'm sure they've all been notified to be on the lookout for rafts and the upturned hull ? Cheeki wasn't part of this rally was she ? That's a lot of sailors going through what I presume to be a good chunk of the search area, yes ?

PAC Cup I found 3-5 miles was about it for spotting other competitors while standing on the boom. 10+ miles for a life raft sticking up less than 6ft in the air, not going to happen...

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So no shit for the Canadian search and Rescue. Obviosely the search area is closer to the Canadian Maritimes than the US.

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I think the really dark area is the saildrive leg, There's a bigger copy of the photo here, looks L shaped. Memory of walking past a few 40.7s on the hard says that the prop is quite far forward.

 

article-2632543-1DFEF4A600000578-656_102

 

This photo, which I think is from Antigua seems to show dark grey antifoul too.

 

asw14-3045_CheekiRafiki.jpg

That chart is wrong their position was given as 38-34.9N; 048-15.4W, Antigua is about 62 W. The 1000 miles of Cape Cod poitiion has somehow been reduced to 1000km off cape Cod, actually they're at a similar latitude as Annapolis

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4 people in a 12 man raft - may not have been enough weight to make the raft stable. That big bomb that hit the fleet returning to Auckland from ?Raratonga? a few years back - searchers found the raft from Spartacus (IIRC) with evidence the raft had been occupied. Without the designed number of bodies, the motion of the raft was so violent it threw the men out, to be lost.

 

Hope that's not what happened this time, and someone stumbles across them in time.

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To those criticizing the USCG's decision, just stop. The USCG never, ever gives up when there's still a chance, but they do stop searching when the likelihood of rescue is nil. See: http://www.thewesterlysun.com/home/4507736-129/search-for-boater-missing-since-morgans-passage-to-new-london.html Outraged about that one? Probably not. Remember the rescue of the three Frenchmen the other day, 1,200 miles from anywhere? Good EPIRB hit, some vessels nearby, crew rescued. http://www.uscgnews.com/go/doc/4007/2163686/

The USCG went out in the middle of a frigging hurricane with two Jayhawks and a C-130 to rescue the Bounty crew, when they just as easily could have said the conditions were too dangerous to risk the lives of the aircrews. They didn't, and that vessel's crew, who should have died, didn't.

Suggesting that the USCG, the USAF, and the Canadians gave up too soon is an insult to the integrity of all those organizations and a complete denial of the facts. Tow personal EPIRBs went off. They gave a good enough location for the Maersk containership to (amazingly enough) locate the nearly completely submerged hull of the 40.7. There was no raft nearby, and no survivors clinging to the hull. One look at the image taken from the containership shows that the likelihood of anyone being alive inside the overturned hull is zero. Sad as it may seem, what probably happened was the keel fell off. The two crew on deck, wearing flotation with personal EPIRBs attached, went in the water. The two crew below, along with the 12-man raft and the boat's EPIRB, were trapped. I can't think of a worse way to die offshore, and my thoughts and prayers go out to the crew and their families and friends. This is a terrible incident, and reveals to the uninitiated just how dangerous sailing small boats across oceans can be. But condemning the USCG for a lack of dedication and for not giving enough time to this rescue effort is ignorance incarnate. If there was any chance for this crew, the USCG and the other SAR assets involved would still be out there searching. As they always do.

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Um...looks more like the rudder came off...the posted pic is hard to see, but having been on a big grey ship bridge before and taking pics...the "thing" sticking up seems to be more proportional to the keel than the rudder...and given the conditions they may have been trying to heave too..and had the rudder break off, didnt that happen during a Caribbean 1500?

 

While the petition is nice Archivist has a very good point...

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Um...looks more like the rudder came off...the posted pic is hard to see, but having been on a big grey ship bridge before and taking pics...the "thing" sticking up seems to be more proportional to the keel than the rudder...and given the conditions they may have been trying to heave too..and had the rudder break off, didnt that happen during a Caribbean 1500?

 

While the petition is nice Archivist has a very good point...

Wrong shape for the keel.

Take a look at the line drawing here:

 

http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?CLASS_ID=3158

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To those criticizing the USCG's decision, just stop. The USCG never, ever gives up when there's still a chance, but they do stop searching when the likelihood of rescue is nil. See: http://www.thewesterlysun.com/home/4507736-129/search-for-boater-missing-since-morgans-passage-to-new-london.html Outraged about that one? Probably not. Remember the rescue of the three Frenchmen the other day, 1,200 miles from anywhere? Good EPIRB hit, some vessels nearby, crew rescued. http://www.uscgnews.com/go/doc/4007/2163686/

The USCG went out in the middle of a frigging hurricane with two Jayhawks and a C-130 to rescue the Bounty crew, when they just as easily could have said the conditions were too dangerous to risk the lives of the aircrews. They didn't, and that vessel's crew, who should have died, didn't.

Suggesting that the USCG, the USAF, and the Canadians gave up too soon is an insult to the integrity of all those organizations and a complete denial of the facts. Tow personal EPIRBs went off. They gave a good enough location for the Maersk containership to (amazingly enough) locate the nearly completely submerged hull of the 40.7. There was no raft nearby, and no survivors clinging to the hull. One look at the image taken from the containership shows that the likelihood of anyone being alive inside the overturned hull is zero. Sad as it may seem, what probably happened was the keel fell off. The two crew on deck, wearing flotation with personal EPIRBs attached, went in the water. The two crew below, along with the 12-man raft and the boat's EPIRB, were trapped. I can't think of a worse way to die offshore, and my thoughts and prayers go out to the crew and their families and friends. This is a terrible incident, and reveals to the uninitiated just how dangerous sailing small boats across oceans can be. But condemning the USCG for a lack of dedication and for not giving enough time to this rescue effort is ignorance incarnate. If there was any chance for this crew, the USCG and the other SAR assets involved would still be out there searching. As they always do.

 

This.

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A very difficult situation and none of us know exactly what happened. There was communicated concern on Thursday about the vessel taking on water. One of the first places to look in a fin keel boat is the keel bolts. The crew had already made satellite (?) contact, and expressed concern on Thursday. Contact was lost early Friday morning, and at noon the CG started the search. I would think that a fairly good location would have been given at that time. I would have thought that the life raft, abandon ship gear and EPIRB were at the ready. The CG report stated that the PLB were registered to the Cheeki Rafiki.

 

I sailed this stretch of ocean in 1983 on my Force 50 (full keel heavy ketch), along with a CT 50, and a Cheoy Lee 53--all having left Bermuda within several hours of each other, and in VHF contact all of the way to Azores. We encountered winds at times in excess of 70 knots (my aeronometer pegged at 65 knots), with seas at 40 feet. The 3 boats of us all did fine, but two smaller boats foundered--and crews were picked up by ships from life rafts. There was no way another boat of that size could be seen at any distance over several miles in conditions of 50 knots and 20 to 30 foot seas, let alone a life raft. The raft should have had flares for signaling, and plenty of gear aboard for survival. We carried 2 406 EPIRBS--one packed in the raft/survival gear, and the other by the companionway, to be grabbed as one abandoned ship--and headed for the raft….

 

Here is a quote about the search: "This involved an HC-130 Hercules out of U.S. Coast Guard Air Station Elizabeth City in North Carolina, a U.S. Air Force C-130 aircraft, from Moody Air Force Base, in Valdosta, Georgia and a Canadian air national guard C-130 aircraft. On the water, the nearest ships Teesta Spirit, Georgia Highway and Maersk Kure were diverted to assist."

 

It sounds as if the location from the PLB was how the Maersk Kure found the overturned hull. It must have been a very exact position to find that hull, or a heck of a needle in a haystack! Makes me think that there was a very good fix for the PLB-which there should have been with repeated passes of the satellites over 24 hours while the PLBs were transmitting, even if the PLB were not GPS enabled. (PLB has to be hand held, with antenna oriented up--and this makes me think that at least some of the crew made it to the raft.)

 

​I certainly hope that further search continues. The crew seemed experienced, and if they got into the raft--had warm clothing, foul weather gear and even mylar film survival suits, may still be alive.

 

The moral; be sure you have both PLB on the persons of the crew, waterproof VHF hand helds, in the survival gear--as well as on the life jackets, and an extra EPRIB packed in the life raft. You want both your odds of survival, and being found to be as high as possible.

 

Our prayers are with the families of those lost, and a hope that they are in a raft and survive...

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First 40.7s have had no history of keel failures.

 

fixied

 

There is now a history, Yet until facts are known - Nothing is known

 

Might have hit a Malaysian Airliner for all that those know - know ;)

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According to the report tonight on Sbutt the USCG went beyond their survivability estimates by almost a factor of 3


After learning of the vessel’s distress at 12:30 a.m., Friday, watchstanders at the 1st Coast Guard District immediately began coordinating efforts by air and sea to locate the crew of the Cheeki Rafiki.


The locator beacons activated by the crew indicated they were in a position 1,000 miles east of Massachusetts as of Friday morning. Seas were 15 feet with winds surpassing 50 knots. The air temperature was 59 with the water was 60 degrees.


When conducting extended searches, the U.S. Coast Guard uses a survivability model that takes into account weather conditions, emergency equipment, and the anticipated condition of the people for whom we are searching. Based on the extreme conditions at sea, but assuming best-case emergency equipment, the estimated survival time past the time of distress was approximately 20 hours. Crews searched for 53 hours.


Air crews from North Carolina, Georgia and Canada searched an area of more than 4,000 square miles and worked with commercial liners who volunteered to assist from the sea. At approximately noon, Saturday, the crew from the 1,000-foot motor vessel Maersk Kure located an overturned hull that matched the description of the Cheeki Rafiki, but could not find any sign of the sailors. Air and sea crews continued to search throughout the afternoon and night and into the next morning for any small indication of debris or search objects.


After more than two days of searching and no indication of surviving crew members, the U.S. Coast Guard made the difficult decision to suspend search efforts.

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Based on the extreme conditions at sea, but assuming best-case emergency equipment, the estimated survival time past the time of distress was approximately 20 hours.

 

If they were (or are) in a life raft, I don't see why it could not be much longer than that. I don't see how anyone can conclude at this point that they did or did not use their life raft, although I'll accept a balance of probability that there was rapid inversion after the keel failed and there was no possibility to launch the life raft.

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Based on the extreme conditions at sea, but assuming best-case emergency equipment, the estimated survival time past the time of distress was approximately 20 hours.

 

If they were (or are) in a life raft, I don't see why it could not be much longer than that. I don't see how anyone can conclude at this point that they did or did not use their life raft, although I'll accept a balance of probability that there was rapid inversion after the keel failed and there was no possibility to launch the life raft.

Exactly, even if it might not be the more likely outcome there still is a sizable chance that they (or some of them) are in a liferat and that they've been drifting away from the capsized hull before the container ship found it.

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Finding the hull, and actually being able to investigate would give everyone an idea of chances of survival, liferaft deployment, EPIRB position etc.

 

As for why the US is getting the hassle over this. It is purely because they took charge in the first place, and therefore that is who the families are hoping to pressurise, understandably.

 

The UK Prime Minister is starting to get a little hassle, as it was his government that introduced cutbacks which led to the loss of the Orion Squadron from RAF Kinloss.

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