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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
Barnyb

Team Alinghi

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He has had s ship there. Apparently one lone passenger (a kiwi) on board the other day.

hell be back if etnz win. 

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Applying that same logic to ETNZ, why do you think they would go back to monos having spent the last 5 years designing and sailing high performance multis?

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OK, let's play this out and continue to use your example as our strawman.  Since 2011 Luna Rossa has completed in the 2011-2013 AC World Series, the 2013 LVC and had a headstart on their design for the AC60 including mocking up their initial concepts for their AC45T.  What's the common theme there?  The boats are all multis.  What is not there?  One single fucking monohull design.  So explain to me why Alinghi would only compete if the event is in multis but LR would insist on monos given their recent history?

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3 hours ago, Rennmaus said:

Because one copies from the other, and no reliable sources are named.

Hey come on now, no reason for him to let facts get in the way of a good bitch about Kiwis.

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4 hours ago, Alinghi4ever said:

Well, the chatter is Bertelli (Luna Rossa) supported ETNZ financially but demanded going back to monos if they win it. It could be all wrong though but that is the chatter I'm hearing from various German Sailing News Outlets.

German sailing? Isn't that like Fijian snowboarding? 

I know one way guaranteed that EB won't be back and that is if Oracle win. You said this yourself in this thread - so why do you now support them, the arch nemesis of your forever team?

I eagerly await your response ;-)

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1 hour ago, Alinghi4ever said:

I support Oracle Team USA simply because I like the Direction they go with the AC and apparently EB likes it too especially the AC 50.

Awww c'mon you can do better than that!

You said "EB said he wouldn't challenge until the Cup goes out of OTUSA's hands and I'm taking him at his word.”

So what's changed?

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8 hours ago, rh2600 said:

Awww c'mon you can do better than that!

You said "EB said he wouldn't challenge until the Cup goes out of OTUSA's hands and I'm taking him at his word.”

So what's changed?

Nothing. His mind changes more often than the Wind guru prediction for Bermuda.

Next week he will suggest that EB is going to buy etnz.

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My guess is that Alinghi will be in if ETNZ wins. Brad Butterworth was in the USA waiting to sign as Challenger of Record before the OTUSA comeback. 

However EB will not play whilst Coutts is still involved. 

 

As for ETNZ going back to monohull...I don't believe that for a minute.

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Would be great to have Alinghi back in the mixer.

Awesome seeing EB there and onboard his 'Vava II' superyacht, beautiful boat!

I suspect he'll be hoping for an ETNZ win which will make his return to AC racing more attractive.

Even if OR retain the cup would be nice to see Alinghi back. The sport is better off with as many teams as possible. 

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15 minutes ago, steeamin said:

Would be great to have Alinghi back in the mixer.

Awesome seeing EB there and onboard his 'Vava II' superyacht, beautiful boat!

I suspect he'll be hoping for an ETNZ win which will make his return to AC racing more attractive.

Even if OR retain the cup would be nice to see Alinghi back. The sport is better off with as many teams as possible. 

The only other Kiwis that would share your enthusiasm would be chronic sufferers of amnesia.

Amongst a century long gang of players with dubious intentions, EB easily ranks as the worst, vilest piece of egotistical euro-trash that ever tried to buy the cup, and in doing so wreaked havoc across the sport that is still felt today. The conduct of him, Alinghi and SNG in particular during race 2 of the 33rd AC speaks volumes about the sheer arsehole-ness of this man, and all the fetid turds he leaves in his wake. He makes even LE look classy and benevolent.

The sport is definitely *not* better off with EB anywhere near it, other than crying through an autoerotic asphyxiation hate-wank as he sits alone in his super yacht watching from across the seven seas.

"Rosebud... rosebud!"

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1 hour ago, rh2600 said:

 He makes even LE look classy and benevolent.

That there is some fucked up claim in my opinion.

The rest, no real problem with.

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Pretty sure EB's burnt off all our old guard - and if not, they're all too bloody old now anyway.

Maybe Adam and Chris could be interested however. Hard to imagine that, if the Cup comes back to NZL, there might be multiple teams happy to step up to Defender status. 

GD has probably already closed that one off with RNZYC anyway, right?

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14 hours ago, rh2600 said:

The only other Kiwis that would share your enthusiasm would be chronic sufferers of amnesia.

Amongst a century long gang of players with dubious intentions, EB easily ranks as the worst, vilest piece of egotistical euro-trash that ever tried to buy the cup, and in doing so wreaked havoc across the sport that is still felt today. The conduct of him, Alinghi and SNG in particular during race 2 of the 33rd AC speaks volumes about the sheer arsehole-ness of this man, and all the fetid turds he leaves in his wake. He makes even LE look classy and benevolent.

The sport is definitely *not* better off with EB anywhere near it, other than crying through an autoerotic asphyxiation hate-wank as he sits alone in his super yacht watching from across the seven seas.

"Rosebud... rosebud!"

Fuck you too! That's all that needs to be said to your comment. 

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On 2017-6-18 at 5:15 AM, rh2600 said:

The conduct of him, Alinghi and SNG in particular during race 2 of the 33rd AC speaks volumes about the sheer arsehole-ness of this man, and all the fetid turds he leaves in his wake. He makes even LE look classy and benevolent.

And I'd only just got over that incident last Friday and you go and mention it. 7 years of therapy down the drain.

That truly was one of most disgraceful incidents in cup history. 

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6 hours ago, laser 173312 said:

And I'd only just got over that incident last Friday and you go and mention it. 7 years of therapy down the drain.

That truly was one of most disgraceful incidents in cup history. 

Made a few wealthy lawyers.

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Plus EB is very active helming his own boat(s), which you cannot say about some other backers.

Just won the Bol d'Or Mirabaud again, with Dona coming second (which happens quite a bit I hear, Dona coming second :-) :-) )

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9 hours ago, Enzedel92 said:

I want Alinghi in the fray just to hear PJ say that Alinghi has "brilliant brilliant sailors" repeatedly...

Will PJ still be around in 4-5 years time? If so, I doubt he'd be able to get his Zimmer Frame around the studio would he?

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1 hour ago, pipo said:

Plus EB is very active helming his own boat(s), which you cannot say about some other backers.

Just won the Bol d'Or Mirabaud again, with Dona coming second (which happens quite a bit I hear, Dona coming second :-) :-) )

Yaay! He bought the fastest boat and steered it around a straight course on his home lake in race barely anyone has heard of.

Being able to steer a boat does not redeem this individual...

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13 minutes ago, rh2600 said:

Yaay! He bought the fastest boat and steered it around a straight course on his home lake in race barely anyone has heard of.

Being able to steer a boat does not redeem this individual...

Correct! He is a cunt of equal magnitude to Lazza.

I hope they refuse any challenge he makes. Although this time I think he wouldn't be able to be competitive because there is no way I can see that he can steal our team again.

Did I mention he is a cunt?

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3 hours ago, rh2600 said:

Yaay! He bought the fastest boat and steered it around a straight course on his home lake in race barely anyone has heard of.

..

 

Get your head out of your backside, there's a big wide world out there. The Bol d'Or is a very significant event in sailing development.

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15 hours ago, dogwatch said:

 

Get your head out of your backside, there's a big wide world out there. The Bol d'Or is a very significant event in sailing development.

Fully aware of it, and as a consequence that was my point - it's basically a drag race. Sure the fastest boat usually wins any regatta, but this format demands even less of the sailor.

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On 21/6/2017 at 4:07 PM, laser 173312 said:

And I'd only just got over that incident last Friday and you go and mention it. 7 years of therapy down the drain.

That truly was one of most disgraceful incidents in cup history. 

Where do I learn more?

Thanks 

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I want Alinghi back in the mix, just because it'd be hilarious to find out he offered crazy money and hit the line with Burling, Tuke, etc. on Alinghi! :D

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22 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

Will PJ still be around in 4-5 years time? If so, I doubt he'd be able to get his Zimmer Frame around the studio would he?

Should we win, I actually want to hear PJM call it. The threepeat would be fitting. I think he'd just go with his line from 2000. I woun't say/write it as I don't want to jinx it.

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Alinghi is in if ETNZ wins and it stays in fast boats.  Got it from a good source.

 

Another source says ETNZ is seriously considering a big monohull.  But that's not as solid as the one above.

 

Mood in BDA is depressing and still quite shocked.  Interestingly though, even those in the sport and industry who will see their contracts expire and the gravy train dry if ETNZ win up are still cheering for them.  It's crazy.

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2 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Alinghi is in if ETNZ wins and it stays in fast boats.  Got it from a good source.

 

Another source says ETNZ is seriously considering a big monohull.  But that's not as solid as the one above.

 

Mood in BDA is depressing and still quite shocked.  Interestingly though, even those in the sport and industry who will see their contracts expire and the gravy train dry if ETNZ win up are still cheering for them.  It's crazy.

Its obvious Alinghi would be in, cos Bertafuckface was circling the flame in 2013.

I hope ETNZ go monos and he fucks off to the same knackers yard that I am hoping Lazza goes to. Cunts!

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3 hours ago, jaysper said:

Its obvious Alinghi would be in, cos Bertafuckface was circling the flame in 2013.

I hope ETNZ go monos and he fucks off to the same knackers yard that I am hoping Lazza goes to. Cunts!

When are you gonna realize the AC is not about your fragile feelings but about Bils who fund the whole thing.. I'd rather hear about their  cuntyness than your endless blah blah posts..oh I forgot I'm on 'iggy' so you won't see this...

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15 minutes ago, laser 173312 said:

As it's written on Wiki is as good as any other

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_America's_Cup#Start_of_Race_2

 

 

Many thanks, I read it last night. Astonishing shenanigans which devalued the AC beyond belief and reminds me why I erased the shambles from memory. 

I do recall watching the racing and concluding it was farcical. It shows why billionaires acting like spoilt brats damages the entire event. And I think it speaks to the admiration many people have for the little guys, ETNZ, for having a right good go despite all the hurdles and adversaries. 

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On 17.6.2017 at 11:27 AM, Potter said:

Brad Butterworth was in the USA waiting to sign as Challenger of Record before the OTUSA comeback.

First time I hear this. Any more information on who was supposed to be ETNZ´s COR in 2013?

I thought it would have been Luna Rosse?

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On 6/23/2017 at 8:51 AM, Wolkenzug said:

First time I hear this. Any more information on who was supposed to be ETNZ´s COR in 2013?

I thought it would have been Luna Rosse?

Northern Alinghi nor Luna Rossa would make very good poodles..... more likely BAR.....

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Ten years of laughable behaviour and failure in regards to the cup you previously bought

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Another jackass billionaire blocked Lady Liberty with his megayacht

The location is a legal anchorage, according to a Coast Guard spokesman — but local mariners still consider it a jerk move.

Not only are the barons robbing visitors of priceless views of the symbol of freedom, they’re saving thousands in berthing fees, said one waterway advocate.

http://nypost.com/2017/08/01/another-jackass-billionaire-blocked-lady-liberty-with-his-megayacht/

20621031_10155601435293839_7959774805546340387_n.jpg

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4 hours ago, Barnyb said:

Another jackass billionaire blocked Lady Liberty with his megayacht

The location is a legal anchorage, according to a Coast Guard spokesman — but local mariners still consider it a jerk move.

Not only are the barons robbing visitors of priceless views of the symbol of freedom, they’re saving thousands in berthing fees, said one waterway advocate.

http://nypost.com/2017/08/01/another-jackass-billionaire-blocked-lady-liberty-with-his-megayacht/

20621031_10155601435293839_7959774805546340387_n.jpg

He's now got it in Boston. Saw it tonight.  It certainly has presence...

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3 hours ago, Boybland said:

Man mega power yachts are just the ugliest things ever!  When I make my billions my boat is definitely looking more this!

http://www.schooner-atlantic.com/atlantic-pictures.html

Very nice. But you'll need a small navy to help you sail her, BB. ;)

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^ Nah, a 12 year old kid and GAmeboy! *

 

* Did ETNZ do any more to protect this IP than they did their foils?

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9 hours ago, nav said:

^ Nah, a 12 year old kid and GAmeboy! *

 

* Did ETNZ do any more to protect this IP than they did their foils?

and a peloton...

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12 hours ago, nav said:

(Snip)

 

* Did ETNZ do any more to protect this IP than they did their foils?

Probably not - if the new Proto means they're both pretty much redundant. 

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^ In AC terms it may well be redundant, time will tell, but as a sailing innovation and potentially implementable across a range of (expensive) platforms, it would be a shame to see it exploited by anyone other than those who developed it. A spin-off company perhaps?

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9 hours ago, nav said:

^ In AC terms it may well be redundant, time will tell, but as a sailing innovation and potentially implementable across a range of (expensive) platforms, it would be a shame to see it exploited by anyone other than those who developed it. A spin-off company perhaps?

You mean like, DSS? 

We all know that got left well behind on the technology highway. A new challenge and many more hundreds of millions and it's all old hat.

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AMERICA'S CUP
Statement by Ernesto Bertarelli, leader of alinghi

Geneva - Alinghi has a unique place in the history of America's cup and continues to participate successfully in its high-Level International Sports program.

Our team, not only for the perfect conditions for lake Geneva, has a natural predisposition for fast and light craft projects, which have recently developed to the use of foil. For us, too, this is the future of our sport.

They are certainly many in the world of sailing those who
They're hoping for a return of alinghi to America's cup. For our part, we are confident that alinghi has helped to inspire a new generation of young swiss talents in sailing, talents that have the ambition, experience and professionalism needed to be part of a team that is able to challenge the best sailors of the World.

Now that the protocol for the next edition of the America's cup has been published, we will study it carefully and we will check the pros and cons.

In the coming months, at the end of the competitive season, we will see whether the new protocol matches our dna and our future ambitions.

The only certainty we have today is our endless passion for this sport, thanks to which we will continue to enjoy and learn race after race.

 

(Translated)

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10 minutes ago, Barnyb said:

AMERICA'S CUP
Statement by Ernesto Bertarelli, leader of alinghi

Geneva - Alinghi has a unique place in the history of America's cup and continues to participate successfully in its high-Level International Sports program.

Our team, not only for the perfect conditions for lake Geneva, has a natural predisposition for fast and light craft projects, which have recently developed to the use of foil. For us, too, this is the future of our sport.

They are certainly many in the world of sailing those who
They're hoping for a return of alinghi to America's cup. For our part, we are confident that alinghi has helped to inspire a new generation of young swiss talents in sailing, talents that have the ambition, experience and professionalism needed to be part of a team that is able to challenge the best sailors of the World.

Now that the protocol for the next edition of the America's cup has been published, we will study it carefully and we will check the pros and cons.

In the coming months, at the end of the competitive season, we will see whether the new protocol matches our dna and our future ambitions.

The only certainty we have today is our endless passion for this sport, thanks to which we will continue to enjoy and learn race after race.

 

(Translated)

Wow! I got to hate the guy, but I'd love that Alinghi challenged ETNZ...

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6 hours ago, Barnyb said:

"For our part, we are confident that alinghi has helped to inspire a new generation of young swiss talents in sailing, talents that have the ambition, experience and professionalism needed to be part of a team that is able to challenge the best sailors of the World".

Well... put your money where your mouth is EB and let's see how good you really are. We look forward to your Challenge.

Or would you prefer to play with yourselves on lake Geneva?

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13 hours ago, Barnyb said:

AMERICA'S CUP
Statement by Ernesto Bertarelli, leader of alinghi

Geneva - Alinghi has a unique place in the history of America's cup and continues to participate successfully in its high-Level International Sports program.

Our team, not only for the perfect conditions for lake Geneva, has a natural predisposition for fast and light craft projects, which have recently developed to the use of foil. For us, too, this is the future of our sport.

They are certainly many in the world of sailing those who
They're hoping for a return of alinghi to America's cup. For our part, we are confident that alinghi has helped to inspire a new generation of young swiss talents in sailing, talents that have the ambition, experience and professionalism needed to be part of a team that is able to challenge the best sailors of the World.

Now that the protocol for the next edition of the America's cup has been published, we will study it carefully and we will check the pros and cons.

In the coming months, at the end of the competitive season, we will see whether the new protocol matches our dna and our future ambitions.

The only certainty we have today is our endless passion for this sport, thanks to which we will continue to enjoy and learn race after race.

 

(Translated)

reads like used kleenex - complete pile of wank that says nothing other than "we are awesome. we might not race, but if not, don't forget we are still awesome OK?!"

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1 hour ago, rh2600 said:

reads like used kleenex - complete pile of wank that says nothing other than "we are awesome. we might not race, but if not, don't forget we are still awesome OK?!"

yes Ernesto wrote it!

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4 hours ago, rh2600 said:

reads like used kleenex - complete pile of wank that says nothing other than "we are awesome. we might not race, but if not, don't forget we are still awesome OK?!"

#ImGreatInBed #ImEvenBetterWhenSomeonesWithMe

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Love him or hate him, the one thing you can never say about Bertarelli is that he doesn't have passion. I cannot see him doing it if he isn't on the boat. Some thought it was ego, but I can relate. I love my sailing and even if I had the money and believed I could get together a team that could win the AC, I wouldn't stump up that amount to sit on the beach. I cannot see any pleasure in paying so others can go sailing. 

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29 minutes ago, A Class Sailor said:

Love him or hate him, the one thing you can never say about Bertarelli is that he doesn't have passion. I cannot see him doing it if he isn't on the boat. Some thought it was ego, but I can relate. I love my sailing and even if I had the money and believed I could get together a team that could win the AC, I wouldn't stump up that amount to sit on the beach. I cannot see any pleasure in paying so others can go sailing. 

The guy is a prick. A.C. is better off without him or Larry.

At least Bertelli and Tornquist appear to have some principles, although winning the cup could change that I guess.

Larry certainly did a full 180 once he won it, although Larry the cup holder was far more in line with his reputation as a total arsehole in the business world.

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17 hours ago, Wolkenzug said:

Does SNG still have an annual regatta on the sea or arm of the sea? B)

Just the question I had, although the DOG says 'It's annual regatta' is that any annual regatta, or the club's biggest and most well attended.

Anyway it seems to me, if as had been mooted Alinghi wanted to represent NYYC, it's sailors would need to fulfil the nationality requirements of the USA, so that idea looks a no go now..

For me there was only 1 real surprise on Thursday night, when Dalts said 'If we cannot hold it in Auckland, it will be in Italy.' Huge statement IMO.

 

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See what you mean re http://www.nautique.ch doesn't translate well in chrome. 

Sad as I love Switzerland, the skiing is top notch and Alinghi ran a top event in 2007. But then they tried to screw the system and instead kicked their own ladder away 

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SNG usually hosts the 8mr tune up races before the  world cup. in 2016 they did it with the 6's because the 8's had the worldcup in Toronto. This year, the worldcup was in Norway, and the tuneupraces were again organised by SNG. 

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55 minutes ago, Yankie said:

Does that bogus yacht club that EB set up as his next COR after Valencia still exist?  Or was it completely a farce?

Club Náutico Español de Vela exsist but was created with only reason to be the Chalenger of Record for the 2010 AC.
EB bended the rules. He thougth the COR was only red tape.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_tape
Somewhere he was right, but het was killed for this idea with a dogfight.
The dogfight was perfomed on mutual agreemeent.

2010: The Golden Gate Challenge[edit]

170px-USA-17-flying-cropped.jpg
 
Challenger USA-17, 2010
Main article: 2010 America's Cup

After Société Nautique de Genève successfully defended the trophy in the 32nd America's Cup, they accepted a challenge from Club Náutico Español de Vela, a Spanish yacht club formed expressly for the purpose of challenging for the cup and keeping the regatta in Valencia. When SNG and CNEV published their protocol for the 33rd America's Cup, there was criticism over its terms, with some teams and yacht clubs calling it the worst protocol in the history of the event.[40] Golden Gate Yacht Club (GGYC) then filed its own challenge for the cup and also filed a court case asking that CNEV be removed as being unqualified under the deed of gift, and that GGYC be named the challenger, being the first club to file a conforming challenge.[41]

There followed a long and acrimonious legal battle,[42] with the New York Court of Appeals finally deciding on 2 April 2009 that CNEV did not qualify as valid challenger, and that the GGYC was thus the rightful challenger.[43]

Since the two parties were unable to agree otherwise, the match took place as a one-on-one Deed of Gift match[nb 1] with no other clubs or teams participating.

The match was sailed in gigantic, specialized 90 ft (27 m) multihull yachts in a best-of-three race series in Valencia, Spain from 8 to 14 February 2010. The rigid wing sail of the challenging trimaran USA-17 provided a decisive advantage, and it won the 2010 America's Cup 2–0.[44][45][46][47]

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America's_Cup#2010:_The_Golden_Gate_Challenge

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6 hours ago, Yankie said:

Does that bogus yacht club that EB set up as his next COR after Valencia still exist?  Or was it completely a farce?

Complete farce

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1 hour ago, dogwatch said:

So many words Schakel yet you fail to answer Yankie's simple question.

I could follow the modern reasoning of Ernesto.
Is there any other race with a Challenger of Record?
The Challenger of Record now is the Prada syndicate.
I guess the meaning of the COR wil be a very long discussion, but go ahead.
 

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Thanks for the info.  Yep, complete farce.  Their website http://www.clubnauticoev.com yields

This site can’t be reached

www.clubnauticoev.com’s server DNS address could not be found.

So I guess LE was correct in his legal contention that it was all a sham.  (Shame he then went and screwed it all up even more himself.)

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On 10/20/2017 at 10:04 PM, jorgensen said:

Vava was anchored off Santa Barbara a few days ago.

Next to LE's Zenji apparently, it's probably a coincidence but still... 

 

 

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Is Allenghi going to be back in with the choice of foiling monohull?

Fast, technical and modern is what they wanted. Is IP on the phone to Switzerland?

 

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11 minutes ago, Xlot said:

FareVela optimistic about Alinghi joining in :)

 

Well, that is unfortunate. I had hoped to have seen the back of that prick as well as Lazza.

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20 hours ago, Xlot said:

FareVela optimistic about Alinghi joining in :)

 

With SNG as the backing club? Can Alinghi get enough Swiss nationals? Residency option seems tough as the lake is not the ideal year-round base of practice. 

Maybe with a French YC as the backing club. That would actually make some sense. Their afterward is already part French. 

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On 11/24/2017 at 10:48 AM, 2Newts said:

With SNG as the backing club? Can Alinghi get enough Swiss nationals?

Yes and yes.  Though if you think they need more than 3, you need to re-read the nationality rule.

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3 hours ago, nav said:

While you are here Clean - can we have the missing boat thread back....

Monday.

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