Bottman

BULLFROGS MAST

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Hi All

Starting a new Bullfrog thread following a request.

Named this thread Bullfrogs Mast as that's where I was when I last contributed.

Refit has progressed slowly with the usual unwanted surprises every boat has ,or will have . A barrister once said to me "There are three types of skippers, those who have hit reefs, those who will hit reefs, and those who lie about it". So, I have discovered a few patches of rot where I didn't want it. There is no option but to cut it out and repair.

Have also "Grandchildren proofed " to a certain extent and also a lot of work around singlehanded sailing ability. As boats get faster one needs to be able to do more from the cockpit. Spent a day with Reini and Sandra from Shark Angels/Ava Gitana, which of course is the sister ship to Bullfrog and also the winner of the recent Trans Tasman Single Handed Race. They have owned SA for 20 years and have a wealth of knowledge and advice. Ians record has finally been broken for this race but by a mere 50 minutes or so and on a vessel of Ian's design. How good is that?

Electric outboards???? Look up "Large Lithium Iron Batteries" and start reading. I had the option to purchase the system from the PO but its a long way from turn key at this stage. PO has also purchased a Prius with an enhanced battery pack system . PO is a pioneer on LI propulsion but I'm not so its an outboard for short term and maybe an inboard diesel like Shard Angels laterpost-105732-0-13812900-1403581933_thumb.jpg. WHY? Offshore racing rules require it for safety, so that's that argument, I hope.

Didn't get a copy of Cathys book, and photo of colour scheme, before I sand blasted the mast and painted it MY favourite colours. White mast with green spreaders. All new rigging wire, all new bolts, 160 ss rivets, all new ropes. Some of the blocks were still pristine and of course the brass Ronstan clutches have stood the test of time and so they are staying. New cabling and conduit for the electrics and LED bulbs. Just a note- if you are in trouble at night the night vision in SAR choppers won't pick up LED lighting so you still need conventional torches on board.

Cheers

Bottman

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Inboard diesel is certainly safer than inboard petrol but I would argue that outboard is safer again and many would argue that no motor is safest of all.

XL2 did very well with a central outboard (not possible on a tri of course) with a good high thrust prop. When we lost the rig and had to rely on the motor I was very glad we didn't have an inboard with a folding prop.

Minimalist inboards with folding props are dangerous IMO. You think they will get you out of trouble and they won't.

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Multis don't need an inboard according to OSR bottman. Monos do. Not entirely sure why the difference there.

Issues with outboards are highly flammable fuel, perceived lack of reliability, and getting a wave up the arse.

Inboards are heavy, and usually required a shaft or sail drive.

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Under ISAF category 0 both monos and multis are required to have inboard propulsion.

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Under ISAF category 0 both monos and multis are required to have inboard propulsion.

Interesting, I had missed that, but Cat 0 is a special case, the regs are well above normal. You also need diving gear and immersion suits

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Also ISAF allow that Multihulls <12 metres can have an outboard in lieu of an inboard, for categories 1, 2 & 3.

 

As this doesnt apply to >12 metres I presume that inboard is mandatory for multihulls cat 0 to 3.

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Under ISAF category 0 both monos and multis are required to have inboard propulsion.

 

yeah, but not necessarily a diesel inboard.

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Hi All<br />The reason I even considered an inboard was from what happened when we crossed Yamba Bar. We approached cautiously for 20 mins watching for a safe approach. A large wave arose just as we were level with the rock walls and the foam was waist deep from this, it killed the electric outboard. That was a problem with the earlier Torquedos and has apparently been fixed. Same would apply to a petrol outboard unless fitted with a snorkel. Have been informed by a tugboat skipper that Yamba is notorious for destroying boats. To cross, wait, for up to an hour for the large wave to appear then when you are sure there is not a second one then quickly cross. We watched the trawlers do this for a few days until we sorted Bullfrog.<br />My info on rules was from Reini. He hates the weight from the diesel but can't race without an inboard. Inflatable life raft also adds weight. Tiller arm is metal, he prefers timber but had to carry a spare one if its made of this and the single ss one is lighter. Reini lives aboard for six months and on land for six months. When he raced from NZ he stripped half a tonne from Shark Angels.<br />Original plans for bullfrog show a 25hp diesel motor. Does anyone know the weight difference between a diesel and petrol engine and the fuel efficiency of each type. That's whether a diesel and say fifty litres of fuel is lighter for the distance travelled compared to a petrol motor. Weight becomes even more critical the lighter boats get with the latest materials and designs.<br />Cheers<br />Bottman

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Here one must ask for the definition of "inboard" - is the only option a engine in the deep of the hull - or can it be a outboard monted in a well - that is protected from flooding from the top - and from under by a more or less water tight access trought the hull?

 

I have that arrangement in Seagul - and it works fine - the motor is always protected - and out of the way. Of course the propeller- isnt as low and under the hull as in a trad monted inboard engine - but if its windy you sail a boat like that.

 

On some of the catamarans in the club (Reidar Uthaug design) http://home.online.no/~uthaug/gallery/norgallery.htm They work with a well that can rise the propeller up and down - and close the hole som the hull will be smoot when the motor is up - and the propeller when down is under the hull. Not sure of the above pics shows the last solutions.

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Also ISAF allow that Multihulls <12 metres can have an outboard in lieu of an inboard, for categories 1, 2 & 3.

 

As this doesnt apply to >12 metres I presume that inboard is mandatory for multihulls cat 0 to 3.

If it is not explicitly mentioned, it is not required. Multis above 12m in cat 1 2 3 can have whatever aux propulsion method they want, apparently, provided it moves the boat at the required speed.

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A Diesel inboard is a good choice IMHO because:

 

Cat 0 compliance.

 

Weight is carried lower.

 

Prop is better positioned under the boat.

 

Diesel engines of that size are more popular than petrol engines of the same size hence better parts availability and easier diagnosis of problems.

 

Diesel engine will be better for resale.

 

Carrying, say 80 litres of diesel will get you much further under power than burning the same in petrol. Less weight carried.

 

Give you more options in regard to charging batteries.

 

Diesel is less volatile than petrol.

 

Will last longer than a petrol engine.

 

Fuel efficiency of the diesel doesn't go up and down wildly depending on the RPM.

 

 

 

There are negatives, Initial cost. Gearbox. Shaft. Prop. Harder to work on yourself ( space ) prop under the boat if it is snagged etc.

 

Moving along .....

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ISAF

 

e) An inboard propulsion engine shall be provided for yachts (Cat 0 multihull)

 

f) Boats of less than 12.0 m hull length may be provided with an inboard propulsion engine, or an outboard engine together with permanently installed fuel supply systems and fuel tank(s) may be used as an alternative (Cat 1,2,3 multihull)

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Here one must ask for the definition of "inboard" - is the only option a engine in the deep of the hull - or can it be a outboard monted in a well - that is protected from flooding from the top - and from under by a more or less water tight access trought the hull?

 

I have that arrangement in Seagul - and it works fine - the motor is always protected - and out of the way. Of course the propeller- isnt as low and under the hull as in a trad monted inboard engine - but if its windy you sail a boat like that.

 

On some of the catamarans in the club (Reidar Uthaug design) http://home.online.no/~uthaug/gallery/norgallery.htm They work with a well that can rise the propeller up and down - and close the hole som the hull will be smoot when the motor is up - and the propeller when down is under the hull. Not sure of the above pics shows the last solutions.

 

here's the right link http://home.online.no/~uthaug/gallery/norgallery.htm

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So how is progress?

Give us all an update on the resurrection Bottman??????

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A Diesel inboard is a good choice IMHO because:

 

Cat 0 compliance.

 

Weight is carried lower.

 

Prop is better positioned under the boat.

 

Diesel engines of that size are more popular than petrol engines of the same size hence better parts availability and easier diagnosis of problems.

 

Diesel engine will be better for resale.

 

Carrying, say 80 litres of diesel will get you much further under power than burning the same in petrol. Less weight carried.

 

Give you more options in regard to charging batteries.

 

Diesel is less volatile than petrol.

 

Will last longer than a petrol engine.

 

Fuel efficiency of the diesel doesn't go up and down wildly depending on the RPM.

 

 

 

There are negatives, Initial cost. Gearbox. Shaft. Prop. Harder to work on yourself ( space ) prop under the boat if it is snagged etc.

 

Moving along .....

My opinion differs, particularly for a catamaran. I like the setup that Neville put on Wahoo. 2 outboards, well forward of the transoms, just inboard of the hulls.

Primary advantage of the outboard is the leg can be lifted out of the water thus one can use an efficient prop, much better than folding or feathering.

Outboard much easier to remove/replace for work. Diesel does last longer but would need to last 10 times as long to be equal long term cost. Servicing cheaper as one can easily remove the motor for servicing.

For me the biggest thing is the fuel. I can't stand the smell of diesel, burnt or unburnt, in the boat. I have spent some time on diesel powered cats and never been comfortable, constantly on the verge of 'seasickness'.

Fortunately up to cat 1 outboard is OK. I will never again do a Cat 0 race, Cat 2 is almost certainly my limit from now on. I don't know what the solution would be for a Tri but not my problem as I would never own another Tri.

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Hi All

As per usual the refit on Bullfrog has taken longer than planned. I intend to do some extended cruising when I launch so I am selling off a considerable collection of boats and machinery as the refit takes place. Have finished the rebuilding of the starboard float water damage- about two square metres. Cut back to completely dry balsa, remove damage and dried the glass/Kevlar layer for a few days then epoxy glued new balsa in. Filled the glue lines with epoxy resin to get at all possible voids which may have been missed with the glue, glass over the top and fairing compound. Used two part proprietary products to avoid mistakes as much as possible. One area not picked up on survey was the screw hole on port helm grab rail. Seventy mls square, or so, of balsa completely rotten. Its part of the structure of the beams but because of the method used, woven rovings top and bottom, 50 mm square, from float to float, then this damaged area was easily bridged and obviously wasn't liable to failure. I am just amazed by the building method of this boat.

After discussion with Reini I have decided on a forty hp diesel with shaft and folding prop. Most four stroke 40 Hp outboards weigh about 110 kgs with about another twenty kg of brackets and strengthening. A lot more strength is needed for a 40 compared to say a 15.

Have made a hatch and cover where the outboard well was which saves 60 kg of water buoyancy and another 70 kg of reserve buoyancy above waterline. Have made a hinged companionway door from end grain balsa. That's to avoid the problem of taking another wave over the transom and into the cabin. Have opened the transom up back to the size Ian originally made. Its got a solid fibreglass flap to make an excellent scupper. I have kept the watermaker as this saves considerable weight when cruising for considerable periods. Centreboard is now back to original specs and I have includes a photo of reglassing it to achieve solid glass on the trailing edge, worked well.

Of course I had to re rig and so had to make a new forestay chain plate. Its now tapered, 150mm longer, with a sandwich of ss either side of the bulkhead and weighs 200gms less than the original.

Picture of the anchor roller side support. It had a crack in it which I opened up and epoxied. Three days later a kick test removed it from the boat so I am making another from ally to get the anchor clear of the bow on retrival. Its done a little bit of damage over the years.

This is a labour of love and the memory of the trip from Pittwater gets me up every morning early and continuing into the night.

Ian how do you tension the cables on the jumper at the top of the mast? I got the curve of the main part of the mast back to how it was when I unstepped but realise it may not have been correct so I really need a lesson on how to set up the mast.

Cheers

Bottman

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post-105732-0-88483200-1406543011_thumb.jpg

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Hey Bottman sounds like things are going well. There's a lot of people that look forward to seeing her on the water again and I'm one of them. Where about's are you doing all the work? Please put up some photos of the work you mention doing in the updates if and when you have time.

 

Trispirit

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Hi All

Some photos of damage and repairs. Bow horn cleat wasn't serviceable following a hammer test. Spreader tips showing a bit of wear? New spreader tips.

Cheers

Bottman

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Project this week is the engine bay hatch. I am using silicone rubber for the outer seal and rubber for the inner seal. Gluing silicone requires Loctite quality contact adhesive and very importantly the proper primer. Then the silicone will tear apart before the glue lets go. The hatch is in the cockpit directly behind the helm so it has to be as flush as possible with a good watertight seal. Some photos won't copy onto this site, despite being resized, so I will try another format for them.

Bottom right hand photo in post above is on the foredeck in the middle of the anchor chain track and was caused by one of the pulpit tie down bolts. As usual only one board affected but I damaged the one next to it when pulling the glass up. Repaired torn balsa with epoxy glue.

Cheers Bottman

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Horn cleat on bow failed a hammer test. Looked very old and cruddy and likely to fail.

Cheers

Bottman

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post-105732-0-31417800-1406916290_thumb.jpg

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Septembers almost gone, and no new update? Hows it going Bottman. I will be going past in November, if your still at Montys will pop in for a catch up if OK. Cheers.

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Thanks Trimariner

Refit is coming along and nuttingout/compromising issues slowly.

Found the info I needed on engines, diesel/petrol. A 40 Hp outboard weighs 110Kg or so, found a test of four popular models and they consume about 14 lph of petrol at wide open throttle. Turbo diesel weighs 150 Kg plus 30 kg of shaft etc and consumes 7 lph. The outboard has a 12 inch prop and the diesel can swing an 18 inch prop. Considering she is now a cruiser and outright speed/weight is no longer an issue I have decided on a diesel inboard. Original plans show a 25 hp diesel below cockpit. She would have to carry far less fuel in the form of diesel for a given distance travelled.

Headache at present is what ratio box and prop size.

I have a Haines Tri Tramp and the outboard prop coming out of the water in steep chop is a problem. That's another reason I have chosen inboard with prop further forward.

Reini strongly recommended an inboard of 40 hp.

Have fitted a door in the companionway to reduce the hazards of flooding and am presently designing large cockpit scuppers as the outboard well, which I removed, was the exit for water in the Schonning refit.

See you in November.

Cheers

Bottman

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Hi Ian

Have removed the backstay chain plates. Thought they may need replacing as the top of the starboard one has an elongated hole. Surprised to see they are aluminium and not stainless. Were they originally aluminium?

I see Ave Gitana/ Shark Angels is for sale on Yachthub.

Cheers

Bottman

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Hi Botman,

 

If you havend a engine yet I think you must look at this diesel engine, I have seen it on the METS and is was very compact and clean

http://www.steyr-motors.com/marine-diesel-engines/2-4-and-6-cylinder/mo32-smartsize-series-2-cylinder-marine-diesel-engine/

 

Mowgli

 

Thanks Trimariner
Refit is coming along and nuttingout/compromising issues slowly.
Found the info I needed on engines, diesel/petrol. A 40 Hp outboard weighs 110Kg or so, found a test of four popular models and they consume about 14 lph of petrol at wide open throttle. Turbo diesel weighs 150 Kg plus 30 kg of shaft etc and consumes 7 lph. The outboard has a 12 inch prop and the diesel can swing an 18 inch prop. Considering she is now a cruiser and outright speed/weight is no longer an issue I have decided on a diesel inboard. Original plans show a 25 hp diesel below cockpit. She would have to carry far less fuel in the form of diesel for a given distance travelled.
Headache at present is what ratio box and prop size.
I have a Haines Tri Tramp and the outboard prop coming out of the water in steep chop is a problem. That's another reason I have chosen inboard with prop further forward.
Reini strongly recommended an inboard of 40 hp.
Have fitted a door in the companionway to reduce the hazards of flooding and am presently designing large cockpit scuppers as the outboard well, which I removed, was the exit for water in the Schonning refit.
See you in November.
Cheers
Bottman

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mowgli,

thanks, awesome looking motor.

If it really is 80kg that is much lighter than any other diesel motor I think.

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The nice thing about it is very clean it is almost a box and I was very inpressed when I did see it on the METS. If I have to buy a diesel I certain consider this one.

But on my new boat it wil be a outboard because I wand the option to steer with the outboard too.

http://f32thriller.blogspot.nl/

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Spoke to a Steyr agent today. They had two major parties interested in this engine but they both pulled out before it went into production and there are no plans to crank it up at present or in the near future. Shame as it was about 80kg and 35Kwt.

Cheers

Bottman

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Hi Hangtime

Have finished all the rot repairs. Making a winch table on the starboard side to get all the action in one spot. Made a few mock ups and a few stuff ups but its pretty good. It will need some changes once its in the water and running. Anchor roller is a bit of a problem getting clearance of the bulbous bow when retrieving but have made a final ally model. It goes on over Christmas. Plan on relaunching mid January then off to Tassie after a few runs to Tin Can Bay.

I'm using all the original blocks and shackles initially and will change over to light weight stuff as I sort it out. There is about twenty kg's in weight saving in the old stuff then there's halyards etc also to be replaced with light weight materials. I've made a few friction blocks out of different materials but Ronstan are advertising their largest ones for $30 or so. Being a cruiser that stuff's not critical at this point.

Refit has been slow as I am finishing off quite a few projects so I can go cruising after WBF.

Cheers

Merry Christmas

Bottman

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Bottman, will you make it down for the Wooden Boat Festival? I look forward to seeing her if this is the case!

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So how about an update Bottman? How is the rebuild going?

Equally as important did you find yourself a boat Hangtime?

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No!......... I Wanted this boat but wasn't prepared to pay the price the owner wanted due to the amount of work required (this was in dispute). Deals were offered and Semi accepted but in the end it went elsewhere

The previous owner sold it to a "friend" (Bottman) and he has made an effort to bring her up to scratch but time has ticked along and I feel justified in my decision to not buy at a price that did not take into account the amount of work needed to restore the old girl.

It was my intention to make her better than what Jeff and Ian had done (With respect) and I wanted to take the smug look off the face of Spirit's owner by smoking her over the line but this did not happen.

So I spent the last six months restoring my old 36ft Grainger Ocean sports 11 which is a 3 beam cat and is now 40ft and painted bright bloody Green, it looks pretty hot (in my opinion ) and should be in the water this coming Saturday. I don't think this one will beat Spirit but then again she is handicapped with crap crew like "Auscat" so you never know

Im working hard to be on the start for the B2G (It will be my first) and it would be good to see Bottman out on Bullfrog at Easter showing off the latest transformation of this much loved boat!

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No!......... I Wanted this boat but wasn't prepared to pay the price the owner wanted due to the amount of work required (this was in dispute). Deals were offered and Semi accepted but in the end it went elsewhere

The previous owner sold it to a "friend" (Bottman) and he has made an effort to bring her up to scratch but time has ticked along and I feel justified in my decision to not buy at a price that did not take into account the amount of work needed to restore the old girl.

It was my intention to make her better than what Jeff and Ian had done (With respect) and I wanted to take the smug look off the face of Spirit's owner by smoking her over the line but this did not happen.

So I spent the last six months restoring my old 36ft Grainger Ocean sports 11 which is a 3 beam cat and is now 40ft and painted bright bloody Green, it looks pretty hot (in my opinion ) and should be in the water this coming Saturday. I don't think this one will beat Spirit but then again she is handicapped with crap crew like "Auscat" so you never know

Im working hard to be on the start for the B2G (It will be my first) and it would be good to see Bottman out on Bullfrog at Easter showing off the latest transformation of this much loved boat!

Post some pics Hangtime (maybe in another thread)

 

Any plans on entering B2G bottman?

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Good to hear your back on the water boof head.

If you're short of crap crew for Easter I'm always keen for a bit of abuse😘

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Just fishing for a bite and caught a Mackeral!

Youre on the shortlist Auscat.

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Hi All at sea

I intend to take Bullfrog to WBF. Schedule will be tight which is standard fare for most refits. Have made a mould of the bulbous bow (still to be removed) for Dennisail if he decides to go that way with his cat. Will be working hard over Christmas to finish off engine bay and then shakedown runs. Can't wait. Biggest improvement has been to get the boom up off the dodger so the foot can be controlled without huge creases in it. Roach is a lot better also.

Good to see you are having success with the fishing Hangtime. It will make it difficult for the rest of us if you get all the good crew. BTG looks attractive.

Cheers

Bottman

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Where are the photos and updates Bottman???? There's a lot of people that would love to know how your going. Can't wait to see her on the water again.

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Rumors abound about her not lookin so good Bottman???

Shes a thoroughbred that needs a PROPER rebirth!

I'll give you what you paid for her so the job can be done right!

Im not joking!!

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Would be good to see you with a real boat Hangtime 😉 I'll never forget seeing Bullfrog in Sydney as a kid. She inspired me to sail multis as I'm sure she did many others would be wonderful to see her restored to her former glory. She's got such a wonderful history from her design to the whole build and race story of Ian and Cathy is awesome. Her and Top Gun are two top boats that just have that beautiful shear line and those big powerful curves only Lock knew how to draw. So how's she going Bottman?? how about some news to your thread??

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I've driven past a couple of times and she needs a bit of work, just hope it gets done right and just not covered up. My favourite and it also inspired and introduced me to multis. Bring back Verbatim.

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would be great to know what's going on. Anyone near and able to pop around and check that Bottmans hands aren't stuck to anything?

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No apology for not attending the WBF.

Getting a reply from Tas Premier next week. Some people made promises they could not keep. No reply from the WBF as promised. Possibly problems there according to some in the know?

Boat is doing fine. She's now a fast cruiser and will stay that way.

As for not looking so good, well it gets done when it suits me.

What's the story with the pencilled marks on the hull and floats? Less than half of them were faults??? Some of the ones on the floats had everyone intrigued. Drop in and see if you can figure out what some of the pencilled marks are for.

Some rot was not identified at survey and therefore not marked. I have made a total of forty 25mm holes to expose possible rot at both marked and not marked areas. All rot has been cut out and "just not covered up". Over a thousand photos of what I have repaired and discovered.

There were five closed non-inspectable compartments behind the cockpit and all either partially or completely below the water line. Theres a sugar scoop which has been left intact and closed in, interesting.

The most intriguing statement from Chris, previous owner, was that the bulbous bow was full of water as identified at survey. I opened the cavity and it was as dry as the Simpson Desert. Once again don't know what was going on there?

I keep going on the memory of sailing out of Pittwater with the ocean swell and cross waves, taking two metres of white water at Yamba over the transom( note, when going over Yamba Bar wait for ever until a two or three wave set passes then enter as quickly as possible) and Bullfrog taking this with ease. Trouble was the trip was over too soon.

I'm still at Montys so if you think you can sound the hull drop in and have a go at identifying whats there under the pencil marks.

Paintwork is industrial two pack rolled on. The idea was to repair, fair, hi build and seal before chalking started. Some areas on the boat loose their paint from masking tape removal revealing very chalky hi build from previous refits. She was going to get a sanding and spray job if she went to WBF. Paintwork looks very bad but she's sealed against the weather.

Cheers

Bottman

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Enjoy your boat Bottman :)

 

Hang time, buy Ave Gitana and show us how its done :D

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Enjoy your boat Bottman :)

 

Hang time, buy Ave Gitana and show us how its done :D

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ave Gitana is complete and ready to go.

The Frog needs to be done right.......Now.

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Why would you not finish and launch because of a non invite to a show ?

A stored boat will fall apart quicker than a used one.

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I was invited to a show. A promise was made and not honoured. Is a person their word and nothing less? Bullfrog needed a further cash input to get her in top show condition.

There were individuals wanting Bullfrog at the WBF possibly for their own ego's/business interests, was this so? On inquiry I was informed ATL Composites( West System) do not sponsor anyone at all. This, despite using Bullfrogs image for the last few decades or so. It has now been removed from their site. Why would I spend money to massage others ego's? I love Bullfrog as she is . She will become a safer short handed fast cruiser as the years progress. Ava Gitana took two years, by two people,full time, to rebuild, with far more cash,experience and expertise than I have. Reni's boat is a credit to his ability.

Today I rebuilt three winches using the salvaged acetal roller bearings which weren't deformed from sheets being left attached to these self tailers. For the others I am trying UHMWPE bushes on re-machined shafts and drums to extend the life of these originals. Too much slop and the drum gears don't mesh properly. Barlow 24's and 27's. Very light with ally drums.

Yesterday I built seats attached to the traveller support and cored the penetrations for the handrail bolts. Last week I had a heavy vinyl boom /cabin cover made for long term storage. It weighs 24kg-not a racing accessory. Week before that was a beanie for the turbo etc etc.

If you have something positive to add then feel free to do so otherwise buy a boat and show the world how good you are. Trying to undermine me may seem a good thing to do but you won't stop me. There are a bunch of organisms in Montys who love to undermine others who are prepared to have a go. It would appear they have a broad audience, is this so?

Possibly the only positive quote to survive the Bjelke Peterson era in Qld is, " Bite off more than you can chew and then chew like buggery". I'm chewing hard believe me.

What about Jessica Watsons boat? Permanently concreted into the paving at the Brisbane Maritime Museum. Is this the future for famous boats? Petrified and never to sail again? Do they want her to "fall apart quicker than a used one"?

Will the sailing industry die if it becomes a selfish exclusive club where newbies are devoured?

Cheers

Bottman

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WTF indeed Spirit. After finding the first pencilled areas were from foam ( different sound from nocking test), at the cabin junction, which Jeff Schonning built I had to have a very good look at every area identified as a fault. A lot of the pencilled areas were for reasons other than rot or faults. I can assure you there is very little rot, if any, still in Bullfrog. If there is then I will find it and fix it. I'm using biaxial glass and Innegra for skin repairs from now on.

Massive pencilled area on the outside of the starboard float turned out to be from lower density balsa used in these areas. That's how she was built with denser timber at stress areas and pointy bits. Top of this float took two square metres of long grain balsa to fix. Damage extended from the rear hatch opening to the aft section. That took ten holes to find the margins of the damage.

Pencilled areas on the port front and rear beams revealed absolutely no rot or defects when opened up. Beautiful fresh balsa of low density and plywood.

The problem could be lack of experience examining this one off (almost certainly)construction method. The answer was simple, just open all marked areas.

There were bits of string coming out of the cockpit sides which held the steering rope covers. I picked that one up by pulling the string with pliers. All fixed, one rotten board per piece of string.

Cheers

Bottman

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Good Onya for having a go. The problem with outside attitude stems from your early rants about how little there was to do and how quickly you could do it.

It's not just a boat ,it's a special piece of Aussi multihull history.

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Just reread the 88 Bicentennial race book by Gavin.

It reminded me of this thread.

 

How's progress?

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Doesn't seem to be promising with the lack of updates. I thought the thread was started by Bottman as a way of sharing the refit?

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He threaten to sue people, he realised it had a lot more rot than he first thought, he wrote to the Tasmanian premier about a lack of invite to the WBF, West Systems turned him down on a sponsorship, someone offered to buy it off him because they didn't think he was doing the boat justice, he is way behind on his own timeline & everyone is criticising him. Would you be back?

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Good points thanks for the smile! It's such a shame though this boat means so much to so many people I really hope he pulls it off or someone comes to the rescue before it's too late.

 

He threaten to sue people, he realised it had a lot more rot than he first thought, he wrote to the Tasmanian premier about a lack of invite to the WBF, West Systems turned him down on a sponsorship, someone offered to buy it off him because they didn't think he was doing the boat justice, he is way behind on his own timeline & everyone is criticising him. Would you be back?

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The boat won't be around forever, I hope he gets his 5-10 years out of it, after that ...........

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Just a note- if you are in trouble at night the night vision in SAR choppers won't pick up LED lighting so you still need conventional torches on board.

 

good point. Havent noticed about yet ! :)

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I was invited to a show. A promise was made and not honoured. Is a person their word and nothing less? Bullfrog needed a further cash input to get her in top show condition.

 

 

Bottman, I think you get something wrong here.... no boat is it worth to invest tons of cash for a boat show. Thats sh**** pimping up an old boat for "show making" ? - Do you want attract "old sailors" with "old boats" ??? - Young people are interested in foiling multihulls, and not in an old "Verbatim-Bullfrog"

 

The boat shall sail as a cruising-trimaran, thats her destination now.... and not hanging around on the peer with tons of visitors to evoke "good old memories". Thats lots of noise and bla, bla, bla... For what is that good ? Boat design and construction methods have developed over last 20 years.... young people cannot be attraced with such a "historical monumentum".

 

Take a good example with Trimaran Spirit, an ex Formula 40 Racer from U.K. ! - Claudia (from Italy) and Jason Gard (the owner) took more than one year of hard work from 2014-2015 to refit this ex-formula 40 racer... and now its going smoothly as cruising-racing boat....

 

The refit and its ugly, durty and expensive work over nearby 1 1/2 year is documented here: http://trimaranspirit.blogspot.com

 

I suppose one must take 120-150 Thousand dollars in hand for a complete refit of a 40 foot Trimaran to bring up the ressources for a very modern update (inclusive electronics and safety equipment + modern electric system).

 

If you dont have the money, forget it.... then better you overhand the boat to a NGO/Foundation, do crowdfunding (by a professionally fund rising marketing) and have the hope herewith, that one day there is enough money together to let her sail again as we know. I seriously have my doubts, that this concept can work (saying this as ex consultant for strategic marketing).

 

No sponsor will invest anymore in his campaigns into such an old boat, better do it with a Diam24, Pulse 600 or an Airplay Raw 30 and others... whatever new racing Tris are out there nowadays in that size to sail easily > 20 knots. Why a sponsor should as there are enough excellent refitted Orma 60s and Mod 70th out there one can get at low prize of max. 150-300 Thousand Euros with the guarantee, to have good media coverage (thats all what counts at the day for a sponsor: media coverage, reaching the target group + image for the brand).

 

In my understanding it needs a private owner with passion for smaller Trimarans who earns his 300-500 Thousand per year as income, so he can pay easily the refit. Everything else is a real illusions.

 

I say this very critically... I had been professionally skipper in the 90th... and all boats I had to take care for "private owners" who didnt have the will to invest what the boat needs ruined it. I have seen too many beauties rottening nowadays as there is not enough financially liquidity. That's urgent...

 

...and not begging Prime ministers for money (such countries and others need money more urgently for helping the poor and kids for good education and health care).

 

Best you overhand the boat to somebody who has the skills, or at least the money to pay the skills of a professionally refit. The boat deserves it to come under sails again, and not pretending to be a beauty on the pier of inwater boat shows !

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H Skip JayR,

 

Thanks for the mention but to clarify things a little our refit was a full rebuild of the interior and cockpit along with many other items that took from January 2015 to the launch on the 26th of June 2015 (six months). We did work seven days a week and ten hours a day but it wasn't a twelve months refit or eighteen month refit as quoted. To refit a boat well you do need money and hard work and all that read this that have done it will no doubt agree. There are many ways to save money, main one being doing the work

 

Claudia and I are lucky in that we could do the majority of the work ourselves and we had also spent many years sailing the boat from the East Coast of the USA so we knew what was important to change to make Spirit a better and more comfortable cruiser.

 

Even though Bull Frog is an older design she was years ahead of others with her offshore capabilities and speed. I'm sure in race mode with new gear and a refit she'd still surprise a few. And before she was modified she had to be one of the prettiest 40ft trimarans round!!

 

We all hope Bottman either passes her on or does her the justice she deserves.

 

Regards,

 

Ssssspirit

 

 

I was invited to a show. A promise was made and not honoured. Is a person their word and nothing less? Bullfrog needed a further cash input to get her in top show condition.

 

 

Bottman, I think you get something wrong here.... no boat is it worth to invest tons of cash for a boat show. Thats sh**** pimping up an old boat for "show making" ? - Do you want attract "old sailors" with "old boats" ??? - Young people are interested in foiling multihulls, and not in an old "Verbatim-Bullfrog"

 

The boat shall sail as a cruising-trimaran, thats her destination now.... and not hanging around on the peer with tons of visitors to evoke "good old memories". Thats lots of noise and bla, bla, bla... For what is that good ? Boat design and construction methods have developed over last 20 years.... young people cannot be attraced with such a "historical monumentum".

 

Take a good example with Trimaran Spirit, an ex Formula 40 Racer from U.K. ! - Claudia (from Italy) and Jason Gard (the owner) took more than one year of hard work from 2014-2015 to refit this ex-formula 40 racer... and now its going smoothly as cruising-racing boat....

 

The refit and its ugly, durty and expensive work over nearby 1 1/2 year is documented here: http://trimaranspirit.blogspot.com

 

I suppose one must take 120-150 Thousand dollars in hand for a complete refit of a 40 foot Trimaran to bring up the ressources for a very modern update (inclusive electronics and safety equipment + modern electric system).

 

If you dont have the money, forget it.... then better you overhand the boat to a NGO/Foundation, do crowdfunding (by a professionally fund rising marketing) and have the hope herewith, that one day there is enough money together to let her sail again as we know. I seriously have my doubts, that this concept can work (saying this as ex consultant for strategic marketing).

 

No sponsor will invest anymore in his campaigns into such an old boat, better do it with a Diam24, Pulse 600 or an Airplay Raw 30 and others... whatever new racing Tris are out there nowadays in that size to sail easily > 20 knots. Why a sponsor should as there are enough excellent refitted Orma 60s and Mod 70th out there one can get at low prize of max. 150-300 Thousand Euros with the guarantee, to have good media coverage (thats all what counts at the day for a sponsor: media coverage, reaching the target group + image for the brand).

 

In my understanding it needs a private owner with passion for smaller Trimarans who earns his 300-500 Thousand per year as income, so he can pay easily the refit. Everything else is a real illusions.

 

I say this very critically... I had been professionally skipper in the 90th... and all boats I had to take care for "private owners" who didnt have the will to invest what the boat needs ruined it. I have seen too many beauties rottening nowadays as there is not enough financially liquidity. That's urgent...

 

...and not begging Prime ministers for money (such countries and others need money more urgently for helping the poor and kids for good education and health care).

 

Best you overhand the boat to somebody who has the skills, or at least the money to pay the skills of a professionally refit. The boat deserves it to come under sails again, and not pretending to be a beauty on the pier of inwater boat shows !

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okeys, Claudia & Jason ! ... was not my intention to write the "history book" of Spirit newly ;-) Maybe I got something wrong as I have lurked around over last months (too) many trimarans I checked out for own living + working on board. :-) I thought to remember that you deposited Spirit on land in late summer / autumn last year, isnt ?

 

Anyhow... good point you made... I think, this shows how it can go (and maybe should go) with low budget... Overtaking a boat, maybe not in best shape... but still good by its substance to sail it away to new home port as new owner... and over first years learn and understand this boat with little bit refitting here and there, with small investments... before the "big plan" is realized for a completly refit.

 

It was my experience as skipper, that very often the "boat owners" do not know their own boats well enough.... as lack of time and lack of competences they cant take steadily a detailled look and inspections. Every time when I ended a skipper job for an owner I had to overhand him a long, long list for repairings... mostly a moment of shock as such a list means mostly some ten thousand dollars.

 

What I am fascinated in Trimarans is these type of boats can go fast with a "minimum of boat". No heavy keel bolted and to keep it as "light displacement" the living on board is reduced to an essentially and minimum of comfort.

 

Nowadays its more easily to handle a spartanic living on board with solar energy and all the modern tools, e.g. hot water deck shower, solar stoven. water maker, electronic communiation + entertainment devices. One can have tons of books on board with an eBook reader, same music and movies... all stored in tiny bits & bites. Its a dramatically change of living compared to the sailing in the 80th till midth of 90th, not to forget LTE and easily Internet access which let one have a kind of social life with the beloved ones who are still living on land.

 

So I see it that nowadays such kind of Trimarans like Verbatim-Bullfrog can attract themselfs to a new and younger generation of boat owners, too. Its no more requipred the radically and puristically form seen from the multihull pioneers in the 60th and 70ths.

 

H Skip JayR,

Thanks for the mention but to clarify things a little our refit was a full rebuild of the interior and cockpit along with many other items that took from January 2015 to the launch on the 26th of June 2015 (six months). We did work seven days a week and ten hours a day but it wasn't a twelve months refit or eighteen month refit as quoted. To refit a boat well you do need money and hard work and all that read this that have done it will no doubt agree. There are many ways to save money, main one being doing the work

Claudia and I are lucky in that we could do the majority of the work ourselves and we had also spent many years sailing the boat from the East Coast of the USA so we knew what was important to change to make Spirit a better and more comfortable cruiser.

Even though Bull Frog is an older design she was years ahead of others with her offshore capabilities and speed. I'm sure in race mode with new gear and a refit she'd still surprise a few. And before she was modified she had to be one of the prettiest 40ft trimarans round!!

We all hope Bottman either passes her on or does her the justice she deserves.

Regards,

Ssssspirit

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There were a number of people that opined both before and after Bottman bought her that there was a lot of work to be done. Some of those comments were well informed and some pure speculation.

 

All that led to a rather unsavoury interchange of views.

 

Bottman is doing the best he can to work on this boat but I can understand that other priorities can take over or the costs become too much to stare down.

 

Leave him to it.

 

I know there is a lot of history but I don't see anyone knocking the door down to take the boat off his hands for a reasonable (to him) figure.

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Nice SA shit talking from a few as usual. Keep up the good work. :rolleyes:

 

Meanwhile, I heard Bottman is finally out of hospital where he has been for half a year or so.

 

I hope he is well enough to complete this project.

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Hi All

Thanks for the positive comments.

My new theme song 'Im still standing'

Froggy's back in the water. She's seaworthy and just passed survey. Needs finishing off to paintwork . Three cyl turbo Isuzu 40hp is running well.

Montys management have been extremely helpful ,as have been family and friends, during my rehabilitation. Two years.

Next is learning to sail again. Does not look like I will ever nurse again because of my head injury and the resultant disability.so lots of time for some cruising.

Cheers

Bottman

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Good on you Bott.

 

Best of luck.

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Glad to hear it Bottman, please keep posting and put up some pics when you can. The boat is well regarded by all multi fans across the globe so I hope she looks after you well and you her.

My partner is a nurse, I know how demanding that job is, enjoy the boat. 😃

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Good to hear that Bullfrog is afloat and ready for the next stage of her life, best of luck Bottman.

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HI All

Bullfrogs wt is now 4000 kgs  She was 2500 Kg when built according to the plans. Addition of anchor winch, diesel motor,higher cabin,heads,jib foil,non slip tp deck,Gori prop and shaft,wing berths,Ferrari tramps, dodger fridge etc etc have added to her middle age spread.

She is nearly ready fo a motor around Moreton Bay.

Cheers

Bottman

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Hi All . More sad news as someone severed the mooring line on Bullfrog on the weekend. Accident not possible.A30mm polyester line was cut showing clean edges. I had recentlyndecided to sell Bullfrog for $200,000.  Looked up the relevant section of the Criminal code- 408A- and the possible penalyt for such an act"intends to destroy, damage,remove or otherwise interfere with the mechanism (or part therof) or other part of or equipment attached to the motor vehicle,aircraft or vessel"  the offender is liable to imprisonment for      12      years. I will offer a substantial reward for information leading to conviction as per the Qld police policy . Cutting a vessel free is a serious offence as not only for the immediate vessel but for any other vessel hit by the vessel cut free. 12 years in jail for cutting a vessel free may seem excessive but it reflrcts the possible damage for such an act .  Bottman

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2 hours ago, Bottman said:

Hi All . More sad news as someone severed the mooring line on Bullfrog on the weekend. Accident not possible.A30mm polyester line was cut showing clean edges. I had recentlyndecided to sell Bullfrog for $200,000.  Looked up the relevant section of the Criminal code- 408A- and the possible penalyt for such an act"intends to destroy, damage,remove or otherwise interfere with the mechanism (or part therof) or other part of or equipment attached to the motor vehicle,aircraft or vessel"  the offender is liable to imprisonment for      12      years. I will offer a substantial reward for information leading to conviction as per the Qld police policy . Cutting a vessel free is a serious offence as not only for the immediate vessel but for any other vessel hit by the vessel cut free. 12 years in jail for cutting a vessel free may seem excessive but it reflrcts the possible damage for such an act .  Bottman

That is horrible news.

Something like that, it shouldn't be 12 years, it should be 12 minutes with the blokes they messed with...

Such a S*&# move on their part.

 

Sorry Bottman.

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3 hours ago, Bottman said:

Hi All . More sad news as someone severed the mooring line on Bullfrog on the weekend. Accident not possible.A30mm polyester line was cut showing clean edges. I had recentlyndecided to sell Bullfrog for $200,000.  Looked up the relevant section of the Criminal code- 408A- and the possible penalyt for such an act"intends to destroy, damage,remove or otherwise interfere with the mechanism (or part therof) or other part of or equipment attached to the motor vehicle,aircraft or vessel"  the offender is liable to imprisonment for      12      years. I will offer a substantial reward for information leading to conviction as per the Qld police policy . Cutting a vessel free is a serious offence as not only for the immediate vessel but for any other vessel hit by the vessel cut free. 12 years in jail for cutting a vessel free may seem excessive but it reflrcts the possible damage for such an act .  Bottman

So... how did the Frog fare?

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WTF ???  There are some assholes around unfortunately aren't there ?   :(

I hope the inconsiderate bastards are caught & fined (hit them in the hip pocket where it hurts !)

Next, I hope that any damage - if any, was minimal.

Good luck to you (you deserve it !)

Peter

ps.  $200,000 would seem to be a VERY fair price - don't let anyone tell you it is not.

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Hi Scanas American  dollars. Finalising a deal would be done by my son as Im still a bit shaky with money.  Boat is fine,just a bit scary re the intention of who cut the line. Frog is moored in a 6knot zone in the Caboolture river.  Jason and Claudia , Spirit, visited lastweek and are editing a video they took. Have brought some 30 second cleaner to get rid of the mould off the topsides. I am 65 and still have two large boats to refit and a house to build so now that I can rationalise somewhat its time for the heartbraking decision to sell Bullfrog. She is structurally sound and incredibly stable uder sail. Jeff Cruse surveyed her a couple of years ago and gave her a very good report.Cheers Bottman

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When I was in Australia, the Caboolture river was deemed the most polluted river in Australia. I didn't find out about that until after eating tons of mud crabs from the river. The crabs were super aggressive and could have easily cut a mooring line. There were also some pretty shady characters who could have done it. What about the fucking brown snakes? They would make just about anyone jumpy. Not a good place to ride a bicycle either as I found out. They call bikes "Deadly Treadlies" there. I know that this is a bit off-topic, but the mention of the Caboolture river brought back a few memories.

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Hey Tony Claudia and I are really sorry to hear about BF being set adrift, hope she faired ok!! Thanks again for allowing us to come and visit was a treat to finally step onboard.  Hope to have the video up soon just arrived back to Spirit in Thailand so a few busy days ahead for us but will work on it real soon. Fair winds. 

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15479E98-BA29-4319-9AFB-10C4ED3C9E1C.jpeg

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Hi All. Used to ride to Bribie,25Klm there and back when I was in mines rescue-very scary unless one rides off the road on a mountain bike. Caboolture River has always rated a F for failure due to many factors including the current flow in Moreton Bay, farming-the catchmentnarea extends through many rural areas and increasing urban areas which are quickly becoming joined together . and the sewerage outfall from Caloundra and Bribie. The sewerage is being resolved with tertiary nutrient removal in the next few years same as Oxley which pipes cleaned sewerage to farming areas west of Brisbane.     Thanks Jason and Claudia your inspection and comments are invaluable.     Could be the float line was run over by a boat and the clean edges were due to cutting a prop free. Moving the mooring block this week just in case the scope of the line was the problem. Cant find any specs on mooring block lines on the MSQ website. I had made the scope very shallow as we are coming into summer wth the possibility of flooding and the apparent 15 knot flow .   Cheers Bottman

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Here'a short video showing Bull Frog as she is today, while also giving a few details of her past and the modifications that were made by Geoff Schionning. I'm not a surveyor and I offer no advice to her current condition.  Claudia and I are avid trimaran lovers and did this to share one of Australia's most famous racing trimarans.

 

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Hey Bottman, she's a great old tri. I've never been on her but have admired her for many years. Which company is she currently insured with please?

 

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Thanks Jason and Claudia for the video. Warts and all and according to Di a lot of warts(why didnt you clean the cabin up?). The black handhold Jason was laughing through is one of eight I added for safety whilst traversing the cabin. The black is obviously carbon,dont want to weaken the midship bulkhead  Theres also several at a convenient height for children. The rudder quadrant took a few days to nut out,  and it works well maintaining even taughtness on the dyneema without introducing springs , through all angles of the rudder, up, down, left and right.(I know port and starboard) Almost as easy to steer as a well balanced tiller. Di has just informed me that in the next video she is going to dress the old girl up. Stilettos, hair up, and judicious makeup ? gonna have to keep an eye on this one Hmmmmmmm     Cheers Bottman

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And the insurer? I heard rumour tha Oz buyer sent a TF10 back to the factory 'cos insurance could not be found in Oz... So what about older ocean racing tris?

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