Bottman

BULLFROGS MAST

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On 3/16/2019 at 11:34 PM, Bottman said:

Thanks Seagull  . My understanding of tiplets is they reduce fuel consumption but it seems to me that reduction in fuel consumption could be enhanced by putting the tiplets on the    bottom of the wing which would provide more lift by stopping the escape of high pressure air from the high pressure side, bottom of wing, to the low pressure side, top of wing. Same thing as a cupped boat propeller which prevents escape of water from the high pressure side, rear side of propeller, to the low side , front of propeller.  The problem has been going on sincs last year with two planes going down and the only visible change to these 737 s is new arrangements to the wing tiplets-with the addition of another element and angling one of the elements to a flatter angle. If it was simply a matter of unjamming a sensor it would be a simple fix wouldent it. The fuel consumptiom problem is indeed solved with all these planes now being grounded.                  It could be that the aerodynamics at the new tips is so compromised at low altitude and at takeoff that it causes these planes to become uncontrollable.  Two spirit levels,like on most modern 4x4s, in the cockpit may be a simple safe alternative.  I wonder what research was done in relation to yaw with these new tiplets.Cheers Bottman

You are off your meds, right.....????

You seem to be having a verbal brain dump rather than actually researching the reams of verifiable news reports that, can clearly link the dots (but don't because of all the ligitation that is being planned....) - The 737Max was basically redesigned with much larger and heavier engines which has moved the COG forward, making the plane overly nose heavy and inherently unstable - also making the plane more suseptible to stall out should the pilot overcook the nose down correction. So to simplify - Boeing make an unusally unstable architecture (out of a previously stable architecture - do the analysis there....) but then they design some supposedly smart software which will counter act the inherent instability. However the software is too rigorous in its application and too complex to disable AND it is controlled by cheap arse sensors with a hig failure rate. Upshot, the pilots fought the FCS all the way into the ground on both occasions. Experienced pilots in both cases. 

The Lawyers will have a field day with this.

Your suggestion that 2 spirit levels would have saved the day is just beyond belief - the pilots can see the horizon - both crashes happened in daylight hours from relatively low altitudes - they were literally fighting for their own and every person on those two flights, lives, all the way down. 

I read today that manufacturing of these death traps has been halted. Thank goodness for that. Air travel is safe - but when shit like this can be hustled through at the behest of corporations like Boeing, past regulators like the CAA (who were clearly also both derelict of their duty and imbibed too much Boeing cool aid) - and feel free to review the claims both these organisations made following both incidents, but particularly the second - then suddenly you have high potential for fatalities. Buyer beware, whether you are an airline or just a lowly passenger. 

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A bit harsh Boink, the average punter still thinks if it ain’t a Boeing then I ain’t going. Boeing cocked up big time on this by taking the equivalent of a 69 Camaro and putting a 1000hp crate engine in then found to keep it in the air they need electronics which they had little knowledge of, unlike Airbus. The 737 has been flawed for years, especially the horizontal stabiliser but changing that would have too many ramifications so leave it as it is. Good time to buy Boeing shares, but the world needs at least two large passenger jet manufacturers, even if one is the lemon of the skies. Still safer than driving to the shops, especially where I live. 

 

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What a hoot. I suppose there were trolls back in the day when the Wright brothers first flew their plane. Unlike some who have to revert to abuse because of their lack of mental ability I have medically proven brain damage, so yes you are right. Only thing which keeps me going is the Australian characteristic of thinking outside the square. I defied those who said I would never drive again and never be able to work on my boats. Nearly four years since being assaulted. Have recently taught myself to weld again.                             And of course there is John Bertrand who succded in winning the Americas Cup in 1983          by 41 seconds    after 7 races. Connor was a brilliant tactician . The whole of Australia watched, one small wrong turn and it was over.                                                                                                                                            My engineering hero is Phil Irving ,an Australian, most famous for developing the Vincent 500 cc into a world beating 1000 cc motorcycle. His motto was something like  ,if something looks wrong then it will probably fail, if something looks right then it will probably succeed. His connection to boating? In 1943 he was asked by the British to develop a reliable lifeboat engine which he did. How successful? top price paid for his engineering is  $929,000.00 for a Vincent Black Shadow a couple of months ago.          And yes the pilots could see the horizon, if they looked through the side windows seconds before they ploughed into earth.     My apoligies offered to family members of those killed in 737 accidents. Bottman

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Back to the subject of Bullfrog.  How is the refit / sale going?  An amazing boat that has been sailed by some legends.  Would love to see this piece of Aussie history.

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Hi Bottman.... how is the sale of the boat going...?

We would love to see someone take it on as the longer it sits there, the harder it will be to bring it back to it's former self... and the less it will be worth to any serious buyer.

I now own XL2 and I know the kind of dollars it must have taken to make it what it is today

Good luck with the sale

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Spot on Pil66. The same for Top Gun. It needed a big dollar and time commitment to bring it back to "as new". These Lock Crowther designed 80s weapons are a big part of the Australian Multihull history and need big dollars and big time commitments to keep them alive. Lets face it they don't get built any longer so they are all we have! Having seen the video of Bullfrog that was shot recently, it appears it still needs plenty of money and time spent on it to also bring it back to the standard of XL2 and Top Gun. If Bottman can't give that commitment, I hope he acknowledges this and moves this piece of history on to someone willing to commit and capable. Unfortunately it doesn't seem as though there's anyone in any hurry to step up to the plate.

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Hi All   I don't see much about people owning Ferraris or Ford GTHOs which are sitting in museums/garae\ges being pestered/trolled because they are not being used. What is the story here? Took her out a few weeks ago and found a further problem which is now fixed. Problem solving is now a lot slower but considering what I have overcome so far, mentally, then I will keep owning Bullfrog unless someone comes up with enough money. The problems with Bullfrog are simply cosmetic. The last improvement I made are to the part of the hull between the winch tables, carbon fibre,foam, Kevlar and skin of 120 glass for finishing. Still learning about my limitations after falling off the bowsprit into the pristine Caboolture river recently .Fortunately I put a step into the transom, when she was refitted, so one can climb back on board Problem with fuel was a faulty electronic lift pump. Am in the process of fitting a 20 l day tank ,gravity feed, to overcome the lift pump fault. At 4 litres per hour at wide open throttle it should cruise at 10 knots for 5 hours before refilling from the 40 l main tank. One of the things I fitted to all my earthmoving gear was a tee piece in the fuel line---before the filter--- so the bleed off diesel is not hot when returning to the tank. This prevents the heating of the air in the tank and the subsequent condensation of water from that warm air as it cools. Petrol 40 hp four stroke, accodeing to a repost from a magazine consumes about 14 lph, bullfrogs diesel uses about 5lph. For a cruisernthat makes sense. For an out and out racer I would use a small petrol outboard.   So how many of you drive an older car,live in an older house, have an older partner? How dare you not trade these in on newer flash models? or spend a small fortune on some remodelling of rubbery bits?    Is there a website  for those who own older Kombys,not done up,rusty and bent,  but preserved with clear paint where the owners are trolled? Ps only joking about the pristine? Caboolture River.  Bottman

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Very good to hear you are working on Bottman!

And one can think - if a future owner has to get it extreme cheap to purcase - he will not have the money that is needed for total upgrading - and the boat might be in a worse situation than now.  It will never be a profitable project - but its a icon - not only for AUS but the hole multihull wolrd.

 

I see many people making these FB  money financing programs for this and that - I never spent any money on them - but if there is something for contributions for keeping and upgrading Bullfrog I would certainly give some dollars. 

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11 hours ago, Bottman said:

Hi All   I don't see much about people owning Ferraris or Ford GTHOs which are sitting in museums/garae\ges being pestered/trolled because they are not being used. What is the story here? Took her out a few weeks ago and found a further problem which is now fixed. Problem solving is now a lot slower but considering what I have overcome so far, mentally, then I will keep owning Bullfrog unless someone comes up with enough money. The problems with Bullfrog are simply cosmetic. The last improvement I made are to the part of the hull between the winch tables, carbon fibre,foam, Kevlar and skin of 120 glass for finishing. Still learning about my limitations after falling off the bowsprit into the pristine Caboolture river recently .Fortunately I put a step into the transom, when she was refitted, so one can climb back on board Problem with fuel was a faulty electronic lift pump. Am in the process of fitting a 20 l day tank ,gravity feed, to overcome the lift pump fault. At 4 litres per hour at wide open throttle it should cruise at 10 knots for 5 hours before refilling from the 40 l main tank. One of the things I fitted to all my earthmoving gear was a tee piece in the fuel line---before the filter--- so the bleed off diesel is not hot when returning to the tank. This prevents the heating of the air in the tank and the subsequent condensation of water from that warm air as it cools. Petrol 40 hp four stroke, accodeing to a repost from a magazine consumes about 14 lph, bullfrogs diesel uses about 5lph. For a cruisernthat makes sense. For an out and out racer I would use a small petrol outboard.   So how many of you drive an older car,live in an older house, have an older partner? How dare you not trade these in on newer flash models? or spend a small fortune on some remodelling of rubbery bits?    Is there a website  for those who own older Kombys,not done up,rusty and bent,  but preserved with clear paint where the owners are trolled? Ps only joking about the pristine? Caboolture River.  Bottman

Good on ya' Bottman! Glad you didn't get eaten by any mud crabs when you fell in. I ate a shitload of those things when I was at Monty's before I knew about the water. Hope you get some good sailing in.

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Hi All  Spoke with my son ,he is my guardian and the situation is any offers over $200,000 will be considered. I removed all the rot,suspect bits added a 40hp diesel so she is a fast cruiser with dyneema sails. Never intended her to be an out and out racer again. If someone thinks she should be that once again then pay for what she is and throw away all the cruising bits, you know, the watermaker, 400amps of batteries,solar cells,storage space, steering system, dodger, two anchors,head,shower,mattresses,cushions,stove,mirrors, but you will still have to pay for what she is at $200,000. I continue to work on her or her accessories on a daily basis and enjoy doing so. When I was in hospital she was the one possession which I could remember and went to Montys in defiance of the neurosurgeon simply because I couldn't understand what happened to me and why I could not do even the most menial tasks. Learning to fair again and she will be back to her former glory eventually.The best thing Schonning did was to raise the sole and add wing berths. She is a bit Tardis- like with the inside bigger than it looks from outside. Cheers Bottman

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200k, in the immortal words from the Castle " tell him he's dreaming ". At that price it has to be turn key drive away. C'mon mate put a realistic price, like half,and you might get a bite. 

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I don't think he's trying (or wants to) to sell ;)

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Hi all I think the mighty Bullfrog has a sister ship (Ave GItana?).  She sold not so long ago.  What are the differences between the boats (if any)?  Does anyone know what she sold for?  

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12 hours ago, Tricky Trend said:

Hi all I think the mighty Bullfrog has a sister ship (Ave GItana?).  She sold not so long ago.  What are the differences between the boats (if any)?  Does anyone know what she sold for?  

Quite a few differences between Bullfrog and Ave Gitana, Ave is a mix of materials in construction.  Strip plank WRC main hull, durakore floats and foam beams as I understand it.  Somewhat heavier than Bullfrog and a little more cruising oriented I think she also had a bit more beam in the main hull.  Ave is now a little longer after having a carbon fibre hull extension added.  Bullfrog was WRC below the waterline and strip plank balsa above and balsa strip plank beams.  Ian mentioned to me that Bullfrog weighed 2000kg when she was first launched with Cat1 configuration gear loaded, not sure how that changed with rebuild into Aero and later rig etc.

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On 6/1/2019 at 10:53 PM, Bottman said:

Hi All  Spoke with my son ,he is my guardian and the situation is any offers over $200,000 will be considered.

 

Bottman... you, as the owner of Bullfrog can sell it at any price you like and I sincerely wish you luck but sadly you will need more than luck to pull that sale off at that price. I hope you are prepared for a long future with Bullfrog. For what it's worth(and you may hate me for this), I value the boat at $60,000 to $100,00 in it's current state. Sorry no offence intended, I'm just being realistic. I say this because.....I now own the completely rebuilt  XL2.. Another legend of that era so I have a fair idea of what these boats are worth and the cost to bring them back. I guesstimate Bullfrog could easily swallow $150,000 to $200,000  for it to be like XL2 and that's without a new rig.  Rig and sails alone can be $150,000.

Australian multihull racing enthusiasts were fully behind you and would love to have seen it restored and used as it was intended when built because we are sentimental about the boat and it's history. Very few ocean racing multis were built then and even fewer are built today here in Oz. Many of us disliked it's time as Current Sunshine and many will not like to hear of the cruising mods you are doing but you have your own vision and I respect that and your amazing comeback from that tragic event and your injury that put the brakes on the rebuild...

Great effort on your fight back to health and good luck with the boat in the future.

 

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Ohh I forgot about Current Sunshine. C’mon. Let’s do it. Let’s collate every name that boat has ever had. I’ll start. 

ASFAIK

Baleine (?), Bullfrog, Verbatim, MMI Express, Australia’s Child, Pacific Cranes, Aero, Current Sunshine ...

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Bottman when you have her up on the slips next time I would love to have a look at her.  She really has inspired me to buy a fast trimaran to continue my sailing on.  Love the history of  the boat - the records - just the vibe of it (to follow a previous line from The Castle).  Having done one boat up that had sunk I have a little of an idea of the money and effort that must go into her.  So, if you do have time for a cuppa next time she is out of the water I would love to take half an hour of your time.

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6 minutes ago, Tricky Trend said:

Bottman when you have her up on the slips next time I would love to have a look at her.  She really has inspired me to buy a fast trimaran to continue my sailing on.  Love the history of  the boat - the records - just the vibe of it (to follow a previous line from The Castle).  Having done one boat up that had sunk I have a little of an idea of the money and effort that must go into her.  So, if you do have time for a cuppa next time she is out of the water I would love to take half an hour of your time.

i know a quick formula 40 ft  that is most likely for sale at a very realistic price and not a thing to spend to cruise and race.......

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3 hours ago, LionIsland said:

Ohh I forgot about Current Sunshine. C’mon. Let’s do it. Let’s collate every name that boat has ever had. I’ll start. 

ASFAIK

Baleine (?), Bullfrog, Verbatim, MMI Express, Australia’s Child, Pacific Cranes, Aero, Current Sunshine ...

I don’t remember MMI Express but good memory Lion. She was originally launched as Balena.

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Which Formula and how much?  Would love Ave Gitana or Bullfrog.  Price and refit would be the issue.

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Hi All    Its starting to come back. I had envisaged a cruiserwith all the racing bits easily removed/ refitted . I have a head for a mould so I can make a carbon fibre one, mock up of a easily fitted diesel-gearbox-shaft drive-rudder which can be fitted with the boat still in the water. Have the shaft housing and the hull cutout as a one piece cruising addition and a 5hp four stroke outboard to insert for racing mode.  I think I saw 2500 kg somewhere in Ians-Crowthers plans as the original weight. Bullfrog was never going to just sit and rot despite what appears ro be the case.Just a small delay in proceedings.  I often tell muself "ya gotta be dreaming". The castle is one of my favourite movies . Thanks to you all. I'm in the process of getting my head around the updated????version of MYFINE PIX BY FUJI so I can post pics of my latest additions. Someone stands to make a lot of money where us simple bods can use these modern aids easily.  Was trying to book an airfare online and spoke to the airline and eventually the idiot said what operating system are you using. I asked him how he got to work today and then what brand of gearbox that bus uses. He was perplexed with this until I explained my knowledge of computers  the same as his knowledge of bus gearboxes. He became very helpful.      Have just retrieved a CAV diesel filter for a friend from   "WOLF CREEK" as the smart arses call my area at Montys and remember the argument I had with a supplier about the fuel flow where the the fuel is dumped on top of the element and therefore stops the flow very quickly, if you follow the diagram on the filter top.Any thoughts about this?     Now how bout this...….four sheds at Montys have just been fitted with solar panels, congrats Montys.  Cuts their bill in half ,if its sunny. Photos of additions to BULLFROG to follow soon. Bottman

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Bottman, you are right about the CAV filter copies the housing is marked backwards. The fuel should flow down the middle of the filter to the bottom and then turn to travel up through the filter media then out. The turning helps the crude and water drop out. Just need to ensure you use the right filters for the job and not too much pressure. Racor turbine series are superior but these basic agglomerators have stood the test of time. Look forward to seeing more of the rebuild progress. Must say that Formula 40 does sound interesting!

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