Bottman

BULLFROGS MAST

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On 3/16/2019 at 11:34 PM, Bottman said:

Thanks Seagull  . My understanding of tiplets is they reduce fuel consumption but it seems to me that reduction in fuel consumption could be enhanced by putting the tiplets on the    bottom of the wing which would provide more lift by stopping the escape of high pressure air from the high pressure side, bottom of wing, to the low pressure side, top of wing. Same thing as a cupped boat propeller which prevents escape of water from the high pressure side, rear side of propeller, to the low side , front of propeller.  The problem has been going on sincs last year with two planes going down and the only visible change to these 737 s is new arrangements to the wing tiplets-with the addition of another element and angling one of the elements to a flatter angle. If it was simply a matter of unjamming a sensor it would be a simple fix wouldent it. The fuel consumptiom problem is indeed solved with all these planes now being grounded.                  It could be that the aerodynamics at the new tips is so compromised at low altitude and at takeoff that it causes these planes to become uncontrollable.  Two spirit levels,like on most modern 4x4s, in the cockpit may be a simple safe alternative.  I wonder what research was done in relation to yaw with these new tiplets.Cheers Bottman

You are off your meds, right.....????

You seem to be having a verbal brain dump rather than actually researching the reams of verifiable news reports that, can clearly link the dots (but don't because of all the ligitation that is being planned....) - The 737Max was basically redesigned with much larger and heavier engines which has moved the COG forward, making the plane overly nose heavy and inherently unstable - also making the plane more suseptible to stall out should the pilot overcook the nose down correction. So to simplify - Boeing make an unusally unstable architecture (out of a previously stable architecture - do the analysis there....) but then they design some supposedly smart software which will counter act the inherent instability. However the software is too rigorous in its application and too complex to disable AND it is controlled by cheap arse sensors with a hig failure rate. Upshot, the pilots fought the FCS all the way into the ground on both occasions. Experienced pilots in both cases. 

The Lawyers will have a field day with this.

Your suggestion that 2 spirit levels would have saved the day is just beyond belief - the pilots can see the horizon - both crashes happened in daylight hours from relatively low altitudes - they were literally fighting for their own and every person on those two flights, lives, all the way down. 

I read today that manufacturing of these death traps has been halted. Thank goodness for that. Air travel is safe - but when shit like this can be hustled through at the behest of corporations like Boeing, past regulators like the CAA (who were clearly also both derelict of their duty and imbibed too much Boeing cool aid) - and feel free to review the claims both these organisations made following both incidents, but particularly the second - then suddenly you have high potential for fatalities. Buyer beware, whether you are an airline or just a lowly passenger. 

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A bit harsh Boink, the average punter still thinks if it ain’t a Boeing then I ain’t going. Boeing cocked up big time on this by taking the equivalent of a 69 Camaro and putting a 1000hp crate engine in then found to keep it in the air they need electronics which they had little knowledge of, unlike Airbus. The 737 has been flawed for years, especially the horizontal stabiliser but changing that would have too many ramifications so leave it as it is. Good time to buy Boeing shares, but the world needs at least two large passenger jet manufacturers, even if one is the lemon of the skies. Still safer than driving to the shops, especially where I live. 

 

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What a hoot. I suppose there were trolls back in the day when the Wright brothers first flew their plane. Unlike some who have to revert to abuse because of their lack of mental ability I have medically proven brain damage, so yes you are right. Only thing which keeps me going is the Australian characteristic of thinking outside the square. I defied those who said I would never drive again and never be able to work on my boats. Nearly four years since being assaulted. Have recently taught myself to weld again.                             And of course there is John Bertrand who succded in winning the Americas Cup in 1983          by 41 seconds    after 7 races. Connor was a brilliant tactician . The whole of Australia watched, one small wrong turn and it was over.                                                                                                                                            My engineering hero is Phil Irving ,an Australian, most famous for developing the Vincent 500 cc into a world beating 1000 cc motorcycle. His motto was something like  ,if something looks wrong then it will probably fail, if something looks right then it will probably succeed. His connection to boating? In 1943 he was asked by the British to develop a reliable lifeboat engine which he did. How successful? top price paid for his engineering is  $929,000.00 for a Vincent Black Shadow a couple of months ago.          And yes the pilots could see the horizon, if they looked through the side windows seconds before they ploughed into earth.     My apoligies offered to family members of those killed in 737 accidents. Bottman

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Back to the subject of Bullfrog.  How is the refit / sale going?  An amazing boat that has been sailed by some legends.  Would love to see this piece of Aussie history.

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Hi Bottman.... how is the sale of the boat going...?

We would love to see someone take it on as the longer it sits there, the harder it will be to bring it back to it's former self... and the less it will be worth to any serious buyer.

I now own XL2 and I know the kind of dollars it must have taken to make it what it is today

Good luck with the sale

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Spot on Pil66. The same for Top Gun. It needed a big dollar and time commitment to bring it back to "as new". These Lock Crowther designed 80s weapons are a big part of the Australian Multihull history and need big dollars and big time commitments to keep them alive. Lets face it they don't get built any longer so they are all we have! Having seen the video of Bullfrog that was shot recently, it appears it still needs plenty of money and time spent on it to also bring it back to the standard of XL2 and Top Gun. If Bottman can't give that commitment, I hope he acknowledges this and moves this piece of history on to someone willing to commit and capable. Unfortunately it doesn't seem as though there's anyone in any hurry to step up to the plate.

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Hi All   I don't see much about people owning Ferraris or Ford GTHOs which are sitting in museums/garae\ges being pestered/trolled because they are not being used. What is the story here? Took her out a few weeks ago and found a further problem which is now fixed. Problem solving is now a lot slower but considering what I have overcome so far, mentally, then I will keep owning Bullfrog unless someone comes up with enough money. The problems with Bullfrog are simply cosmetic. The last improvement I made are to the part of the hull between the winch tables, carbon fibre,foam, Kevlar and skin of 120 glass for finishing. Still learning about my limitations after falling off the bowsprit into the pristine Caboolture river recently .Fortunately I put a step into the transom, when she was refitted, so one can climb back on board Problem with fuel was a faulty electronic lift pump. Am in the process of fitting a 20 l day tank ,gravity feed, to overcome the lift pump fault. At 4 litres per hour at wide open throttle it should cruise at 10 knots for 5 hours before refilling from the 40 l main tank. One of the things I fitted to all my earthmoving gear was a tee piece in the fuel line---before the filter--- so the bleed off diesel is not hot when returning to the tank. This prevents the heating of the air in the tank and the subsequent condensation of water from that warm air as it cools. Petrol 40 hp four stroke, accodeing to a repost from a magazine consumes about 14 lph, bullfrogs diesel uses about 5lph. For a cruisernthat makes sense. For an out and out racer I would use a small petrol outboard.   So how many of you drive an older car,live in an older house, have an older partner? How dare you not trade these in on newer flash models? or spend a small fortune on some remodelling of rubbery bits?    Is there a website  for those who own older Kombys,not done up,rusty and bent,  but preserved with clear paint where the owners are trolled? Ps only joking about the pristine? Caboolture River.  Bottman

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Very good to hear you are working on Bottman!

And one can think - if a future owner has to get it extreme cheap to purcase - he will not have the money that is needed for total upgrading - and the boat might be in a worse situation than now.  It will never be a profitable project - but its a icon - not only for AUS but the hole multihull wolrd.

 

I see many people making these FB  money financing programs for this and that - I never spent any money on them - but if there is something for contributions for keeping and upgrading Bullfrog I would certainly give some dollars. 

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11 hours ago, Bottman said:

Hi All   I don't see much about people owning Ferraris or Ford GTHOs which are sitting in museums/garae\ges being pestered/trolled because they are not being used. What is the story here? Took her out a few weeks ago and found a further problem which is now fixed. Problem solving is now a lot slower but considering what I have overcome so far, mentally, then I will keep owning Bullfrog unless someone comes up with enough money. The problems with Bullfrog are simply cosmetic. The last improvement I made are to the part of the hull between the winch tables, carbon fibre,foam, Kevlar and skin of 120 glass for finishing. Still learning about my limitations after falling off the bowsprit into the pristine Caboolture river recently .Fortunately I put a step into the transom, when she was refitted, so one can climb back on board Problem with fuel was a faulty electronic lift pump. Am in the process of fitting a 20 l day tank ,gravity feed, to overcome the lift pump fault. At 4 litres per hour at wide open throttle it should cruise at 10 knots for 5 hours before refilling from the 40 l main tank. One of the things I fitted to all my earthmoving gear was a tee piece in the fuel line---before the filter--- so the bleed off diesel is not hot when returning to the tank. This prevents the heating of the air in the tank and the subsequent condensation of water from that warm air as it cools. Petrol 40 hp four stroke, accodeing to a repost from a magazine consumes about 14 lph, bullfrogs diesel uses about 5lph. For a cruisernthat makes sense. For an out and out racer I would use a small petrol outboard.   So how many of you drive an older car,live in an older house, have an older partner? How dare you not trade these in on newer flash models? or spend a small fortune on some remodelling of rubbery bits?    Is there a website  for those who own older Kombys,not done up,rusty and bent,  but preserved with clear paint where the owners are trolled? Ps only joking about the pristine? Caboolture River.  Bottman

Good on ya' Bottman! Glad you didn't get eaten by any mud crabs when you fell in. I ate a shitload of those things when I was at Monty's before I knew about the water. Hope you get some good sailing in.

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Hi All  Spoke with my son ,he is my guardian and the situation is any offers over $200,000 will be considered. I removed all the rot,suspect bits added a 40hp diesel so she is a fast cruiser with dyneema sails. Never intended her to be an out and out racer again. If someone thinks she should be that once again then pay for what she is and throw away all the cruising bits, you know, the watermaker, 400amps of batteries,solar cells,storage space, steering system, dodger, two anchors,head,shower,mattresses,cushions,stove,mirrors, but you will still have to pay for what she is at $200,000. I continue to work on her or her accessories on a daily basis and enjoy doing so. When I was in hospital she was the one possession which I could remember and went to Montys in defiance of the neurosurgeon simply because I couldn't understand what happened to me and why I could not do even the most menial tasks. Learning to fair again and she will be back to her former glory eventually.The best thing Schonning did was to raise the sole and add wing berths. She is a bit Tardis- like with the inside bigger than it looks from outside. Cheers Bottman

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200k, in the immortal words from the Castle " tell him he's dreaming ". At that price it has to be turn key drive away. C'mon mate put a realistic price, like half,and you might get a bite. 

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Hi all I think the mighty Bullfrog has a sister ship (Ave GItana?).  She sold not so long ago.  What are the differences between the boats (if any)?  Does anyone know what she sold for?  

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12 hours ago, Tricky Trend said:

Hi all I think the mighty Bullfrog has a sister ship (Ave GItana?).  She sold not so long ago.  What are the differences between the boats (if any)?  Does anyone know what she sold for?  

Quite a few differences between Bullfrog and Ave Gitana, Ave is a mix of materials in construction.  Strip plank WRC main hull, durakore floats and foam beams as I understand it.  Somewhat heavier than Bullfrog and a little more cruising oriented I think she also had a bit more beam in the main hull.  Ave is now a little longer after having a carbon fibre hull extension added.  Bullfrog was WRC below the waterline and strip plank balsa above and balsa strip plank beams.  Ian mentioned to me that Bullfrog weighed 2000kg when she was first launched with Cat1 configuration gear loaded, not sure how that changed with rebuild into Aero and later rig etc.

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On 6/1/2019 at 10:53 PM, Bottman said:

Hi All  Spoke with my son ,he is my guardian and the situation is any offers over $200,000 will be considered.

 

Bottman... you, as the owner of Bullfrog can sell it at any price you like and I sincerely wish you luck but sadly you will need more than luck to pull that sale off at that price. I hope you are prepared for a long future with Bullfrog. For what it's worth(and you may hate me for this), I value the boat at $60,000 to $100,00 in it's current state. Sorry no offence intended, I'm just being realistic. I say this because.....I now own the completely rebuilt  XL2.. Another legend of that era so I have a fair idea of what these boats are worth and the cost to bring them back. I guesstimate Bullfrog could easily swallow $150,000 to $200,000  for it to be like XL2 and that's without a new rig.  Rig and sails alone can be $150,000.

Australian multihull racing enthusiasts were fully behind you and would love to have seen it restored and used as it was intended when built because we are sentimental about the boat and it's history. Very few ocean racing multis were built then and even fewer are built today here in Oz. Many of us disliked it's time as Current Sunshine and many will not like to hear of the cruising mods you are doing but you have your own vision and I respect that and your amazing comeback from that tragic event and your injury that put the brakes on the rebuild...

Great effort on your fight back to health and good luck with the boat in the future.

 

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Ohh I forgot about Current Sunshine. C’mon. Let’s do it. Let’s collate every name that boat has ever had. I’ll start. 

ASFAIK

Baleine (?), Bullfrog, Verbatim, MMI Express, Australia’s Child, Pacific Cranes, Aero, Current Sunshine ...

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Bottman when you have her up on the slips next time I would love to have a look at her.  She really has inspired me to buy a fast trimaran to continue my sailing on.  Love the history of  the boat - the records - just the vibe of it (to follow a previous line from The Castle).  Having done one boat up that had sunk I have a little of an idea of the money and effort that must go into her.  So, if you do have time for a cuppa next time she is out of the water I would love to take half an hour of your time.

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6 minutes ago, Tricky Trend said:

Bottman when you have her up on the slips next time I would love to have a look at her.  She really has inspired me to buy a fast trimaran to continue my sailing on.  Love the history of  the boat - the records - just the vibe of it (to follow a previous line from The Castle).  Having done one boat up that had sunk I have a little of an idea of the money and effort that must go into her.  So, if you do have time for a cuppa next time she is out of the water I would love to take half an hour of your time.

i know a quick formula 40 ft  that is most likely for sale at a very realistic price and not a thing to spend to cruise and race.......

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3 hours ago, LionIsland said:

Ohh I forgot about Current Sunshine. C’mon. Let’s do it. Let’s collate every name that boat has ever had. I’ll start. 

ASFAIK

Baleine (?), Bullfrog, Verbatim, MMI Express, Australia’s Child, Pacific Cranes, Aero, Current Sunshine ...

I don’t remember MMI Express but good memory Lion. She was originally launched as Balena.

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Hi All    Its starting to come back. I had envisaged a cruiserwith all the racing bits easily removed/ refitted . I have a head for a mould so I can make a carbon fibre one, mock up of a easily fitted diesel-gearbox-shaft drive-rudder which can be fitted with the boat still in the water. Have the shaft housing and the hull cutout as a one piece cruising addition and a 5hp four stroke outboard to insert for racing mode.  I think I saw 2500 kg somewhere in Ians-Crowthers plans as the original weight. Bullfrog was never going to just sit and rot despite what appears ro be the case.Just a small delay in proceedings.  I often tell muself "ya gotta be dreaming". The castle is one of my favourite movies . Thanks to you all. I'm in the process of getting my head around the updated????version of MYFINE PIX BY FUJI so I can post pics of my latest additions. Someone stands to make a lot of money where us simple bods can use these modern aids easily.  Was trying to book an airfare online and spoke to the airline and eventually the idiot said what operating system are you using. I asked him how he got to work today and then what brand of gearbox that bus uses. He was perplexed with this until I explained my knowledge of computers  the same as his knowledge of bus gearboxes. He became very helpful.      Have just retrieved a CAV diesel filter for a friend from   "WOLF CREEK" as the smart arses call my area at Montys and remember the argument I had with a supplier about the fuel flow where the the fuel is dumped on top of the element and therefore stops the flow very quickly, if you follow the diagram on the filter top.Any thoughts about this?     Now how bout this...….four sheds at Montys have just been fitted with solar panels, congrats Montys.  Cuts their bill in half ,if its sunny. Photos of additions to BULLFROG to follow soon. Bottman

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Bottman, you are right about the CAV filter copies the housing is marked backwards. The fuel should flow down the middle of the filter to the bottom and then turn to travel up through the filter media then out. The turning helps the crude and water drop out. Just need to ensure you use the right filters for the job and not too much pressure. Racor turbine series are superior but these basic agglomerators have stood the test of time. Look forward to seeing more of the rebuild progress. Must say that Formula 40 does sound interesting!

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On 6/1/2019 at 2:53 PM, Bottman said:

Hi All  Spoke with my son ,he is my guardian and the situation is any offers over $200,000 will be considered. ....

Have followed last night the former thread about the sales procedure in 2014, when you popped up in SA as the new owner. 

Now its 1/2 decade gone, and time has changed a lot. The boat market hasn't healed since then, its "still" (and will keep going) a buyer's market, and not a seller's market, whatever kind of boat has a unique history to tell, or even be seen in the past as the most famous Trimaran Australia has experienced.

I have watched Jason's video (still owner of F40 Trimaran Spirit, which is since summer 2018 in the market, laying in Thailand), when he visited your boat. Was it in 11/2018 ? 

From distance, the shape of your Tri looks fabulous. It's an eye catcher by sure. But when coming on board (in this vid), I was shocked, I must say. If the boat should be still in this condition, its not worth at all 200K$ (either AUS dollars or US dollars). The prizes for elder Tris have fallen drastically, and actually one can get a 50 footer fully equipped, built in the 80s for around 80,000 US dollars. Ready for circumnavigation. - A cruising-racer Tri in the size of 40 ft you can get of that time for around 45,000 US dollars.

That's the sad reality for every boat owner who intends to bring his "beloved baby" into the market nowadays. So it is. It doesn't matter if you like to get 200 Thousand, or another owner for his beloved one expects to get 80 Thousand. Its just not realistic, under the aspect the new owner has to invest. Regularly its much, much more than just sanding and painting, right ? - I am not aware what happened between 2014 and 2019 with BullFrog, as upper named thread is closed and you had disappeared that time suddenly.

Be aware that an owner sits emotionally in his own bubble and "trap", see the thread in cruisersforum I have started abt "negotiations for elder Trimarans" to learn about, as I am searching since years to buy my own Tri. I have to deal since long with this habit to see owners for years not being able to come down to a realistic prize - as a good compromise for both seller + buyer. (Rec.: As a professional sailor on big traditional sailing ships, and living on a monohull for now, I don't have hurry to do an emotional buy, being blind for the real conditions the boat of my desire is in. I sit down and do a critical calculation rationally of coming investments for all repairs, renovations, modernisation, and match it with the market situation. E.g. Buyer expects 120 Thousand, I have to invest 80 Thousand (over a period of 2-3 years), the market is realistically at around 140 Thousand, so I would offer maximum 60 Thousand not to push through the roof with the total budget.)

We live in crazy political very unstable times, either in USA (Trump-Nepotism) or in Europe (see France riots, UK Brexit, Hungary turning into a dictatorship ...) or other parts of the world; wealthy guys mostly had to work hard to bring up some hundred thousands of Euros/Dollars for their private pleasure, so far not being one of these crazy guys who became "rich" over night by high risk speculations with eCurrencies (Bitcoins), RealEstate, RiskCapital investment, being a share holder of boosting eCommerce giants or whatever. Wealthy people are very sensitive about risks, as we like to say: "Money is shy like a deer". 

There are serious warnings out there that we might be close to another financial (banking) crisis, similar to what the world has experienced in 2008, which took most countries around 10 years to come out of. Get me right, I am not one of these pessimistic guys who likes to see that everything in this world is bad. Just try to see the potentials and risks. (Rec.: For a buyer the market is excellent, lots of boats at cheap prize out there.)

Times are not safe at all for money. Wealthy people keep steadily an eye onto such circumstances and like to keep their bank accounts together. Some might have "black money" deposited to push it into such a boat, but its not very realistic to expect that such one comes along your path. Otherwise the rich ones wouldn't be rich. Such kind of people are not of that nature to throw around with their hard earned dollars. The super rich who do not need to think about money in that budget category will look to some other objects to spend some millions. For them 200 grants is still little money/nothing. So your boat addresses a target group of potential buyers, which might be owner of a middle size company, or working in middle ranged management positions or an engineer who earns his 250-300 Thousand per year, working for one of the big global concerns. - But such guys won't have the time mostly. And such guys also have their limits for an annually budget, as family, wife etc. ... demand on their own. I skippered last year a 17 meter single bult 2-master (wood in wood). The owner is elder than 70. He can afford per year around 20-30,000 Euros easily to keep the boat in shape, but thats the limit as he also has a comfortable life with travelling around the globe with his wife (without the boat). He is very aware now, that he is too old for this big yacht; he expects to get 450-500 Thousand Euros. But realistically the market is around 180 Thousand. So he keeps it, he keeps it, and keeps it, and the boat gets worser and worser, as he looses the energy to keep steadily a caring eye on her. - A fast Tri in the range of plus 20 knots needs an owner who is physically fit to challenge the power and risks safely. The potential buyers this boat addresses is very limited.

I had seen death 5 times, cancer (at the age of 25), car accidents, electric stroke (as child) ... I am not proud of that, but happy to be still alive, now counting already more than 5 1/2 decades on my bones. You are one of the lucky guys, who already experienced at young age this iconic boat so far I remember correctly, and you had the honour to own her. Maybe that what should count most for you, and not what you can pull out now. The chances are big that it won't happen at all.

I still keep searching for my own boat (most beloved type is a Crowther Kraken 40 ft / alternative might be a Crowther Buccaneer with aft cabin). - Who knows what brings the future.

Anyhow ...  I wish you good luck. Maybe your strategy works out. - It will be interesting to see if someone get's on the hook.

Edited by Skip JayR
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21 hours ago, Skip JayR said:

Have followed last night the former thread about the sales procedure in 2014, when you popped up in SA as the new owner. 

Now its 1/2 decade gone, and time has changed a lot. The boat market hasn't healed since then, its "still" (and will keep going) a buyer's market, and not a seller's market, whatever kind of boat has a unique history to tell, or even be seen in the past as the most famous Trimaran Australia has experienced.

I have watched Jason's video (still owner of F40 Trimaran Spirit, which is since summer 2018 in the market, laying in Thailand), when he visited your boat. Was it in 11/2018 ? 

From distance, the shape of your Tri looks fabulous. It's an eye catcher by sure. But when coming on board (in this vid), I was shocked, I must say. If the boat should be still in this condition, its not worth at all 200K$ (either AUS dollars or US dollars). The prizes for elder Tris have fallen drastically, and actually one can get a 50 footer fully equipped, built in the 80s for around 80,000 US dollars. Ready for circumnavigation. - A cruising-racer Tri in the size of 40 ft you can get of that time for around 45,000 US dollars.

That's the sad reality for every boat owner who intends to bring his "beloved baby" into the market nowadays. So it is. It doesn't matter if you like to get 200 Thousand, or another owner for his beloved one expects to get 80 Thousand. Its just not realistic, under the aspect the new owner has to invest. Regularly its much, much more than just sanding and painting, right ? - I am not aware what happened between 2014 and 2019 with BullFrog, as upper named thread is closed and you had disappeared that time suddenly.

Be aware that an owner sits emotionally in his own bubble and "trap", see the thread in cruisersforum I have started abt "negotiations for elder Trimarans" to learn about, as I am searching since years to buy my own Tri. I have to deal since long with this habit to see owners for years not being able to come down to a realistic prize - as a good compromise for both seller + buyer. (Rec.: As a professional sailor on big traditional sailing ships, and living on a monohull for now, I don't have hurry to do an emotional buy, being blind for the real conditions the boat of my desire is in. I sit down and do a critical calculation rationally of coming investments for all repairs, renovations, modernisation, and match it with the market situation. E.g. Buyer expects 120 Thousand, I have to invest 80 Thousand (over a period of 2-3 years), the market is realistically at around 140 Thousand, so I would offer maximum 60 Thousand not to push through the roof with the total budget.)

We live in crazy political very unstable times, either in USA (Trump-Nepotism) or in Europe (see France riots, UK Brexit, Hungary turning into a dictatorship ...) or other parts of the world; wealthy guys mostly had to work hard to bring up some hundred thousands of Euros/Dollars for their private pleasure, so far not being one of these crazy guys who became "rich" over night by high risk speculations with eCurrencies (Bitcoins), RealEstate, RiskCapital investment, being a share holder of boosting eCommerce giants or whatever. Wealthy people are very sensitive about risks, as we like to say: "Money is shy like a deer". 

There are serious warnings out there that we might be close to another financial (banking) crisis, similar to what the world has experienced in 2008, which took most countries around 10 years to come out of. Get me right, I am not one of these pessimistic guys who likes to see that everything in this world is bad. Just try to see the potentials and risks. (Rec.: For a buyer the market is excellent, lots of boats at cheap prize out there.)

Times are not safe at all for money. Wealthy people keep steadily an eye onto such circumstances and like to keep their bank accounts together. Some might have "black money" deposited to push it into such a boat, but its not very realistic to expect that such one comes along your path. Otherwise the rich ones wouldn't be rich. Such kind of people are not of that nature to throw around with their hard earned dollars. The super rich who do not need to think about money in that budget category will look to some other objects to spend some millions. For them 200 grants is still little money/nothing. So your boat addresses a target group of potential buyers, which might be owner of a middle size company, or working in middle ranged management positions or an engineer who earns his 250-300 Thousand per year, working for one of the big global concerns. - But such guys won't have the time mostly. And such guys also have their limits for an annually budget, as family, wife etc. ... demand on their own. I skippered last year a 17 meter single bult 2-master (wood in wood). The owner is elder than 70. He can afford per year around 20-30,000 Euros easily to keep the boat in shape, but thats the limit as he also has a comfortable life with travelling around the globe with his wife (without the boat). He is very aware now, that he is too old for this big yacht; he expects to get 450-500 Thousand Euros. But realistically the market is around 180 Thousand. So he keeps it, he keeps it, and keeps it, and the boat gets worser and worser, as he looses the energy to keep steadily a caring eye on her. - A fast Tri in the range of plus 20 knots needs an owner who is physically fit to challenge the power and risks safely. The potential buyers this boat addresses is very limited.

I had seen death 5 times, cancer (at the age of 25), car accidents, electric stroke (as child) ... I am not proud of that, but happy to be still alive, now counting already more than 5 1/2 decades on my bones. You are one of the lucky guys, who already experienced at young age this iconic boat so far I remember correctly, and you had the honour to own her. Maybe that what should count most for you, and not what you can pull out now. The chances are big that it won't happen at all.

I still keep searching for my own boat (most beloved type is a Crowther Kraken 40 ft / alternative might be a Crowther Buccaneer with aft cabin). - Who knows what brings the future.

Anyhow ...  I wish you good luck. Maybe your strategy works out. - It will be interesting to see if someone get's on the hook.

Well said... If you are in the market for a tri.... look no further than Trispirit.... I don't know the asking price but Jason is a realist and there is one thing about this boat I know and that is it is ready to go with nothing to spend for a while. Also when I considered buying it, I had my insurance company look at the boat (on paper) and they were happy to insure it...

I estimate Bullfrog to be $120,000 to 150,000 to make right without new sails....

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Basic boat is in fantastic shape due to the balsa long board construction unlike foam boats which have a definite life span I was told. The timber,you know the stuff trees are built out of has a life similar to the tree it was made out of ,can be flexed indefinetly provided the flexion limits aren't exceeded. Proof is the current state of l Hydroptere .Fantastic strong and light but the problems with her seem almost impossible to restore. Possibly something like a skin of Inegra over the original structure could be the answer to this gem. Bullfrog had,had problems where the balsa was wet. Started to repair her with balsa from Bunnings ,staff were intrigued until I explained I was weighing each board to establish the density. Balsa comes in a variety of densities and so the high stress points are denser than the low stress points.                   I would love to see your costing on "how to make it right without new sails".   It would be similar to sheathing KONTIKI in ply and modernising it. Bullfrog is RIGHT as she is. Bottman  PS a Vincent recently sold for $900,000 complete with all its faults.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Bottman said:

Basic boat is in fantastic shape due to the balsa long board construction unlike foam boats which have a definite life span I was told. The timber,you know the stuff trees are built out of has a life similar to the tree it was made out of ,can be flexed indefinetly provided the flexion limits aren't exceeded. Proof is the current state of l Hydroptere .Fantastic strong and light but the problems with her seem almost impossible to restore. Possibly something like a skin of Inegra over the original structure could be the answer to this gem. Bullfrog had,had problems where the balsa was wet. Started to repair her with balsa from Bunnings ,staff were intrigued until I explained I was weighing each board to establish the density. Balsa comes in a variety of densities and so the high stress points are denser than the low stress points.                   I would love to see your costing on "how to make it right without new sails".   It would be similar to sheathing KONTIKI in ply and modernising it. Bullfrog is RIGHT as she is. Bottman  PS a Vincent recently sold for $900,000 complete with all its faults.

 

 

Considering you paid less than 90k for the boat five or so years ago, why do think its now worth more than double now? Seems all you've done is fix what should be right in any worthy boat. Let's face it few boats ever grow in value, particularly old tired trimarans.

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"E.g. Buyer expects 120 Thousand, I have to invest 80 Thousand (over a period of 2-3 years), the market is realistically at around 140 Thousand, so I would offer maximum 60 Thousand not to push through the roof with the total budget."

 

You go in your own trap there; it will never be profitable - or even break even - to buy an old trimaran - you will loose money anyway. Maybe if can can be lucky and get a cheap Lagoon - you can fix it and make some cash...

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Cant recall ever saying I was out to make money out of bullfrog. I was speaking to someone at Montys when another boaty said I he had Chris on the phone and he will sell Bullfrog for $50,000.00.I took it just like that,she was in Sydney and I was in Brisbane, booked a relocator van for $5 and Chris and I drove to Pittwater. I had no,zero,zilch knowledge of another buyer. What impressed me the most was how safe she felt. Coming in to Coffs we were caught by a breaking wave, electric motor shorted out ,about 5 knots of following wind ,about two metres of white water. Iwas looking for the safest way to swim ashore if she broached. The hulls decks were simply skimming along just at or below the surface and the three of us were shot about seven m higher as she lifted the stern then shot forward as the wave overtook us. Not the way one would have done it if one was prepared. Was my second day day on her.Not even a hint of broaching  Jasonwas very impressed with the wing berths. These make the saloon very big and spacious. From memory I think someone said these added about 100kg of weight. THEY TAKE HER FROM BEING AN OLD RETIRED RACER TO A FAST FAST comfortable CRUISER AND AT INCREDIBLE SAFETY. Aft deck has end grain balsa wings making for a huge entertaining area. The additions were thanks to Schionning the work is basic but the plus is one can see how the additions were built. No hidden surprises no shitloads of fairing. Next additions is an aft boarding ladder and underdeck lifelines.Side boarding ladder was a disaster. For those who are obsessed with cost it took about three hours to fit the side boarding ladder and it has to come off. About two hours to remove and repair the scars from the first boarding ladder attempr.Wt is an estimated 20 grams of epoxy to repair the scars.Mona Lisa   about five dollars of paint in todays terms bla bla bla warning be prepared to loose shitloads on the Mona Lisa, keep away from her.Cheers Bottman

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Bottman,

In light of your "rental" idea in the other thread I thought this ought to be bumped.

What has happened since July?

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Jason wont bite from Bogan antagonising, Want to engage him in conversation? Use intelligent means.

 

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Hey Bottman can you confine your bottshit to one thread and let the grown ups have a decent conversation in other threads. You have nothing positive or useful to say and appear to be nothing more than anattention whore. 

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Im trying to up[oad 2.8mb files and the max is 9.7 mb and the site says icantupload,whats the problem?bottman

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On 11/15/2019 at 6:44 PM, Bottman said:

 

When I was young a guy brought a rough falcon, put mags,loud exhaust , red paint and stickers  on it and pretended it was a GT. It was nicknamed the "polished turd". Reminds me of some boats which look the part but will never be the part because of their construction. Good paint , faired, flash sails, all the go fast bolt on bits but will never perform or be safe. Do you know of such boats? Enjoy your polished turds gentlemen.Bottman

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On 11/9/2019 at 1:16 PM, cynophobe said:

Hey Bottman can you confine your bottshit to one thread and let the grown ups have a decent conversation in other threads. You have nothing positive or useful to say and appear to be nothing more than an attention whore. 

Agree, well said.

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Quote

Bullfrog is F@#ked. Dead set in insanely POOR condition!

Im not pulling any punches here but after sitting on the sidelines and watching the Bullshit Flow for a long time Im going to add my 2 cents worth.

The boat was in very poor condition in 2013 When Indian chief rejected the sale based on the survey Of Mr Cruze. It was at that time in need of a full strip down restoration It ended up in the hands of the current owner who may have had good intentions but has let the condition deteriorate to such a low standard that it would make you cry!

Trispirit was very complimentary in his Video . Im sure he would have liked to portray it in its true form which is that of a Poorly maintained Rotten mage of its former self.

  The Modifications done by the current Owner are of the standard of a person with no skills and as a result the poor old girl is in no seaworthy state, In fact it is not safe enough to leave the little creek it lives in.

The steering setup is a joke, The Rigging is so bad that it would all fall overboard if you took it out to Moreton Bay, The Basketball size hole that was only noticed 3 weeks after its grounding Has let large amounts of water into the end grain under the waterline, The Sides  of the hull that was cut away around the cockpit area so the owner didn't have to lift his leg to walk out of the cockpit has created a major structural weakness. The deckpaint was rolled on and and instead of masking up around things like Hatches and Tracks The paint roller was rolled right over everything including the Perspex...…….. I could go on but its pointless 

Bullfrog Has one float in the grave.

About 6 months ago I inspected Her and even though everybody in the know in the Multihull game warned me to run away I still thought If I could get her at a sensible price I have the skill and ability to really transform her back to her best. My initial thoughts were that it was worthless, The cost of the rebuild would far outweigh the value of the boat, I sat at a table with the current owner and had to listen to a 45 minute story of how he ripped off the Queensland Health department of 500 thousand dollars and of how he was in the process of scamming his superannuation company of another 200k and of how he lied to get his drivers licence back after a poor mental assessment Blah Blah Blah… I was glad to get away from the guy and I was left wondering why someone would brag about stuff like that to a stranger 

  Anyway Bullfrog will stay in the hands off the current owner as it is his only source of attention and he knows that if it sells he goes back to being a nobody. Asking 200k for a boat that is worth nothing will ensure this is the case!

 

Edited by Hangtime
Poor spelling
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Well well well. if this is the case as described by Hangtime, (which i suspected after seeing Jason's video) as a multihull tragic and Crowther classic owner, this really makes me sad. 

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RIP Bullfrog.  Thanks for the recent report on her condition Hangtime.  Good to know the truth.

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Well Hangtime if she is that bad I am now thinking of putting a chainsaw through her and into the dump she goes. The multihull world can then thank you for saving someone the trouble of doing a couple of days work to get her up and running. Whats Cruise think of all the comments on his ability and skill as a surveyor?. And Schionning?     All Yacht Spars did the rigging in 2014 or so so I imagine they would be a bit upset at the "learned opinion" about the rigging "so bad that it would fall over if taken outside Moreton Bay"?Exactly whats wrong with the rigging? I will be asking Allyacht Spars for a refund going by your opinion.Bottman

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There never was and will never be endgrain below the waterline as stated in Hangtimes addition to this thread. What are you talking about? Who are you quoting?Someone of little knowledge and possibly of limited intellect,maybe?Is that so?Bottman

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5 hours ago, Hangtime said:

 

Seems to be a common situation with the Balsa Trimarans.

The  owner of MDTT appears to have the same issues. ;)

From a post  in BDF

"Mad Dogs Tip Truck has been sitting unloved for about 5 years ...... but has a fair amount of $$ and effort required to get her up to scratch. No sails or outboard, identified de-lamination and probably rot in rear starboard beam. 

But - she is constructed of balsa core and that sort of scares me. ........."

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Just spoke to Chris from Allyacht spars and he said they were asked to replicate the rigging and that's what they did. New wires five years ago. Mast sandblasted,replaced monel rivets in the sail track ,140 of them. New end tips on the spreaders. New pins on the sheaves for halyards. FOUND THE REMAINS OF A FLAG WRAPPED AROUND ONE OF THE SHEAVES-SURPRISINGLY EASY TO USE NOW.  So who are you Warren? Whats the aim of your post?   Bottman

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This is all very sad

We here on the net get our info from either first hand encounters or reports from others and for us to understand the truth here we need to form an opinion based on previous actions of those reporting plus the facts we know. 

So now 4-5 years down the track and still it languishes....I believe Bottman had good intentions when he pulled the trigger and unfortunately it sounds like some bad life shit got in the way...Poor bugger.. it happens.   

So when I read things from others like Trispirit and Hangtime, who have known form and respect here and in the real world of multis,  not only sailing them but building them, I completely believe their assessment of the boat, Plus Jason's video doesn't lie.... it's a mess.

It's just so hard watching this train wreck unfold....

In a perfect world, Bottman would sell the boat to hangtime for a realistic price ($50,000-$80,000) to be rebuilt. Sadly this world is far from perfect and chances are it will never again grace our oceans in race trim as it once did.

RIP Bullfrog

 

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Hey, um,Pil haven't you partly destroyed a bright shining example of a Crowther? Is this the "train wreck" you are describing in the previous post? How much damage do you think you have done to the ability of catamarans to get insurance and the ability to get into marinas? Is this the case? Bottman

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52 minutes ago, Bottman said:

Hey, um,Pil haven't you partly destroyed a bright shining example of a Crowther? Is this the "train wreck" you are describing in the previous post? How much damage do you think you have done to the ability of catamarans to get insurance and the ability to get into marinas? Is this the case? Bottman

Difference is Phil has the knowledge and money to fix XL properly and to not let it languish through his own ignorance.  

Unfortunately after viewing BF I'd have to agree with Hangtime’s assessment of her.  I hope she’s changed for the better since we viewed her last year but without someone else’s professional and independent view stating otherwise I highly doubt it.

Since 2014 Bottman has been on this thread gloating about all his done but unfortunately all that’s been accomplished is a very short sail up the coast and onto the beach along many hours wasted at his computer on this forum abusing anyone that questions him or the condition of BF.

Sorry Bottman but as they say actions speak louder then words get out there fix BF and go sailing and I’m sure for that you’d have the support of this community.  

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Jason you posted this 26NOV 2018. "I am not a surveyor and I offer no advice to her current condition". So why did you say "thanks for allowing us to come and visit"  then  decide to write some statements which are contrary to the advice of a marine surveyor I paid for work to make sure she was safe. SHE IS SAFE. It could appear to some people you have an ulterior motive for your request to inspect my boat, do you have an ulterior motive? Now your apparent, friend, as seen working on Spirit in your photos is making derogatory statements about me some could think, couldnt they, why is he doing this?.  Jason your actions could be seen as those of someone who could not be trusted, one could think,can you be trusted?Whats your motive Jason?Where is the proof of the statements you have made about Bullfrogs ability to pass survey?Before you readers attack me again about the type of survey ask Jason what type of survey he meant, he didn't specify but a number of readers thought he meant a specific type of survey. So, Jason please inform the readers of the type of survey you were talking about ie LLOYDS 100A1 etc etc. Should there be someone warning on this forum about letting you onto their boats or workshop for fear you may do the same thing to them as you did to me?  Are you a wolf in sheeps clothing Jason?Bottman

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Pleased to see all is normal in the Australian multihull scene.

Bitch'n, piss'n , back stabb'n .......CHECK

Yep. all normal.

 

Bottman, life is to short as you probably realise so enjoy what ya got.

Jason , Ya don't shit on someone after they have invited you into their home.

Sort it out via PM

Who gives a rats who started it.

Lets move on.

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Go sailing Bottman, show us how good she is. Jason sailed Spirit from the US to Aus. Raced her a bit, got a 2nd in the National titles. Then did an awesome refit, and has sailed many miles visiting several countries. What have you done ? You sailed from Sydney to Brisbane and have managed to wash up on a beach. Hangtime bought an old boat that sat in a paddock for years, did a refit and had raced and sailed up and done the east coast for a few years now. What have you done? Bought a great boat and let it rot in a creek. If you can't revive her let someone else have a go. 

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I was very excited to see Bullfrog in Pittwater. She was very ordinary to say the least. Chris wasn't too keen to go out in much above 20kts and as I didn't know her I was happy with that. I was then  flogged by someone in the boatyard who had training in Arakan, Burmese Martial Arts, where the first move is to take out another persons cheek bone so that they become completely incapacitated ,as explained in the utube clip.Look up Arakan Backfist to get an idea of this. This could be described as a complete cowards method of fighting. Much the same as challenging a person to a fist fight then pulling a gun on them. Someone heard the commotion and the attacker stopped before he killed me. Three months in hospital, three months under my sons care then simply went home to MONTYS. Everyone was unhappy but as I had very little insight and repeatedlysaid I was responsible for my welfare and would iust keep coming back my GPwas convinced I should be allowed to remain. Mamy nervous trips over the bobcat ramp,3metre span eight metres height, from my Boden 50 ft yacht, to my 80 ft barge. Best rehab method ever for someone recovering from a head injury. Then a year of discovering the many faults with Bullfrog. There are numerous photos of what I fixed. Most were things which would not be evident on a basic survey.Bow horn cleat simply disintegrated with a hit from a hammer,statnless steel bolts and aluminium horn cleat, just add salt water and time , complete failure. Im ,me not Hangtime so why should I copy him. Some people are very ignorant when it comes to personal choice ask the citizens of Hong Kong. I know of someone who owns a Porsche and doesnt use it. Do you think you would like to try bullying him into using it Cynophobe?You could be seen as having very little intellect with yourattempts at bullying, is this the case?Bottman

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6 hours ago, Bottman said:

Hey, um,Pil haven't you partly destroyed a bright shining example of a Crowther? Is this the "train wreck" you are describing in the previous post? How much damage do you think you have done to the ability of catamarans to get insurance and the ability to get into marinas? Is this the case? Bottman

What a fucking arsehole comment!!<_<

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How many millions upon millions upon millions of dollars worth of bright shiny boats of all descriptions sit lying idle around Australia ,and the world , rotting in the sun and cold and you have nothing better to do than lie about a disabled persons attempt to carry out their hobby? Now someone , in what could be an example of very low intellect, has started to use foul language to reinforce their argument. Does this appear to be a conspiracy to defraud me of my old boat? Bottman

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"I am the best boatbuilder Australia has ever seen and I can make the slowest old dunger get up and boogie blitzing all comers, fair weather and foul, my ability to sail will astound you. I can sail any boat anywhere in all conditions better than anyone around the world. They see me as the Dennis Connor of Australia as they see me disappearing into the distance trying to cope with their feeble attempts trying to emulate my brilliance. I am so fast that when I switch off the light I cant see a thing, which I recall as being a normal human trait."   Now that's gloating isn't it? I cant say that I have ever gloated on SA ,Im just someone who enjoys my boat in my own way. My ability to sail and maintain my boat are now the ability of a disabled person. Bottman

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Absolutely incredible reading really!

Bottman, you are crazy man.... the conspiracy theory stuff is so full on.

I remember having a text conversation with Jason the day after he was on board and he would in no way be led on bagging the boat or being negative about the works that had been done. To be honest, I reckon he did really well to not react to your absolutely over the top, bordering on defamatory statements about him until now.

RIP Bullfrog... would have loved to see you back in full flight.

But I am glad that Indian Chief made the choice that he did with Top Gun. Faster and faster all the time!

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Newbiesporty I don't mean to be rude but can you read?You obviously read Older...………… where Jason made what could be seen as an  uninformed statement did you make an uninformed statement Jason? . Have a look at what Jason said in Old Faster Aust Multihulls about Bullfrog Oct 2019"personally I don't think Bull Frog in her current state will pass survey". That's where this current thread started, with Jason still unable to indicate where this information came from.If this uninformed statement  was made  up then he has to wear the fallout. If he has just had a guess at the seaworthiness and has been caught out then he has to wear the fallout. If he has given other people advice about vessels and has been wrong then he has to wear the consequences, have you made such statements Jason? Jason could have appeared to bag my boat Oct 19 2019 did you bag my boat Jason?. Please have a read.  Jason did not see if the anchor winch was operational, he did not see the engine operate,he did not see if the lights worked, he did not see if the VHF worked,he did not see if the gas stove worked,,,, he did not see the bilge pumps work, he did not see the plotter working, he did not see the gearbox oil, he did not see the inspection access to behind the collision bulkhead, he did not see the condition of the wiring apart from under the saloon sole, He didn't see what the balsa was like under the deck, he did not operate any of the bilge pumps, He did not see the emergency lighting, he did not see the compass, he did not see the winch handles, he did not see the emergency winch handles, Question is ………….Bottman

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On 8/1/2014 at 3:00 AM, Bottman said:

Hi All

Some photos of damage and repairs. Bow horn cleat wasn't serviceable following a hammer test. Spreader tips showing a bit of wear? New spreader tips.

Cheers

Bottman

post-105732-0-64161100-1406825613_thumb.jpg

post-105732-0-13235200-1406825701_thumb.jpg

post-105732-0-95341200-1406825799_thumb.jpg

post-105732-0-70005400-1406825918_thumb.jpg

 

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The end tips were obviously not looked at by anyone before Chris bought Bullfrog. I  have not heard if a travel lift being used or if anyone had been hoisted aloft to inspect the mast at Church Point.First photo above was what I found when I lowered the mast. The slackness in the wires was the first fault I saw when I first stepped aboard. Chris did about three thousand gentle miles only so it was obviously worn before he brought her.The new tips were turned by Montys and inserted by me. I made the tips longer so I could cut off the damaged spreader tubes.Some of the wires had worn into the tips past the end of the spreader tubes. Allyacht Spars made the replacement wires for the diamonds and the main wires, that's NEW WIRES on ALL PARTS OF THE MAST. All nuts bolts monel rivets,shackles,eyes sheaves were replaced"except for the main sheet sheave, which Ian gave me. Its brand new old stock, titanium from about 1990. The second shot is of the main beam and its rot. I removed 200ml of balsa around this rot and reglassed using progressively larger overlapping layers of 300gsm biaxial glass and the denser,matching, balsa. Third shot is of the mast being reassembled with the spreader tips made longer so the measurements of the diamonds remained constant. Bit of tips inside the spreader tubes was extended to 60 ml to make them as good as new. So this is the standard of repairs I did on Bullfrog. What is wrong with this standard of repair Hangtime,Jason and you defamers? Does this look like defamation? I took about five hundred shots of my work because someone at Montys said the F....wits will try some amateurish garbage on one of the websites. Were they correct? Very easy and cheap to take pictures these days isnt it? Once again if any of you find fault with my work then lets hear about it,just don't talk rubbish as it could make you look foolish, and isn't this forum here so we can find out information to improve our boats and make them safer?Bottman

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I have eight dingys ranging from a 3m tender up to a skiff . The boat which accompanied me from Thursday Island to Brisbane,twice, as my tender,  is a five m ally centre console.with a yammy 60 outboard. She doesn't have a name,just a number like a newly arrived refugee. Big boats which came down with me from TI, one at a time, are a 50ft steel Boden ketch. She is a BIG mumma. Fabulous to live aboard, incredibly stable. 2000l of water 2000l of diesel. Stay out forever. Then Varu 80 ft aluminium barge. Nicknamed Barge arse by one of the doctors on TI who shall remain nameless. Naa, it was Nathan K. Then there is the sleek speedy nymph, with the sex appeal  we all know and love. Such a sexy name BULLFROG. Words fail me. BULLFROG, how could you do that to such a mysterious enchanting doll Ian. But she is what she was named and so hopefully I can continue where I left off four years ago with her refit. AS A FAST CRUISER. Stable, safe,reliable ready for everything  and anything especially someone in trouble.Cheers Bottman

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Dear Mr Hangtime, when did I give you permission to board my vessel Bullfrog? Did you trespass? The only people to board Bullfrog, with my permission were Jason and Claudia, Your statements could appear as being defamatory? Is that your intention? The area at the sides of the cockpit where you appear to claim the structural integrity was compromised was done by Schonning, are you saying he doesn't know how to boatbuild? To tell you the truth I didn't like the way an entire section was removed from the original hull and seats held in place by compression, have rebuilt that section with three layers of glass and one layer of 600 Kevlar over foam as winch bases. There is a slightly lower section so that one can exit the cockpit area safely from either side. . The winches are now back near to where Ian installed them. Theres a triple turning block to get around the side of the cabin top for the inner and outer jib sheets. All arranged so the boat can be sailed single handed  without having to leave the cockpit unnessarily. the winches can be used by taking half a step forward with one hand still on the helm. I told Hangtime this so I am suspicious of his motives especially when he has approached me several times about purchasing Bullfrog.Read his post above and he claims to have tried purchasing her, this is true, its also true that I rejected his totally inadequate offers maybe three times. Why would someone make any offer at all if they think Bullfrog I worthless? Why would someone accept an offer of zero dollars for a boat they enjoy so much? Leaves me wondering? Bottman

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Now the decks. I had seen outgassing on some small bits I made. Numerous people said flood the balsa on a hot day and then the epoxy will be sucked into the wood and it will make a very thick solid matrix with the balsa as it cools. That to me would defeat the purpose of using a very lightweight substrate substance as the main structure, otherwise the makers of end grain balsa would use that system. They don't. There would appear to be a very controlled method of getting minimal intrusion of the epoxy and then using a thin layer glass over the outside of that for strength. That's my amateur observation. Same goes for foam. I noticed that if I used Emerclad on the decks it would not soak in. It would bubble up with heat outgassing and leave the balsa underneath completely dry, surprisingly completely dry. Its been like that since I stopped working on it. Not any sign of water damage. That would obviously change with normal wear and tear but at present she is safe and protected. Emerclad doesn't look as good as expensive paint but from my experience it does offer good protection of timber.Cheers Bottman.

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On 11/29/2019 at 3:09 PM, Bottman said:

Hey, um,Pil haven't you partly destroyed a bright shining example of a Crowther? Is this the "train wreck" you are describing in the previous post? How much damage do you think you have done to the ability of catamarans to get insurance and the ability to get into marinas? Is this the case? Bottman

I destroyed mine by using it and having a go....... You are destroying yours by not....

And for the record.... I've publicly apologized to our community in several places for the negative effect my incident may cause us in the future... I can't do more.   

I'm out... 

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Been reading this thread. OMG!!!!!. The boat is a mess from what i've seen and have been told by a few experts who probably did trespass to check out this poor old legend of Aussie multihull history. Bottman, do you really feel good about holding on to something thats beyond you? I think you should feel ashamed that you have missed an opportunity to help this iconic tri be saved by a guy that can, and has done previously with his current green boat. I believe boat owners are only minders of such creations until they must pass on the responsibility to someone else with new enthusiasm and capability to continue the care of such remarkable items. Multihulls like BF have a heartbeat! Don't let it stop beating over ego and to try to prove a point and then realising its not worth it after its too late. My advice is you should take Hangtimes cash and play with something else. God Bless BF.

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Pil I was doing exactly that. Nearly destroyed her by having a go , so whats going to be your excuse now? At least Bullfrog is still usable , isn't she. I was HAVING A GO. IWAS HAVING A GO AS A DISABLED PERSON wasn't I?. Doyou think disabled persons cant have a go?. Tell me of a disabled person who can still do the things they used to do in the same time? I was told I would never drive again, never use power tools, never weld, so I passed a two hour driving test, from Samford to Brisbane Centre and return, two times, in peak hour traffic. I asked the Occupational Therapist and the driving instructor to read my history and the hospital paperwork, and to make no concessions for me.(I have no idea where Warren got his information from, where did it come from?) They did exactly that. .And so Pil, have you read the post above and do you think it would be appropriate to ask you the same question as asked by square top, was XL2 "something that's beyond you" ?Just asking? The boating world should probably thank you for alerting us to the possible trespassing on boats, who are they so this information can be passed onto the police, thanks for this in advance as there is way too much stealing on boats. We had a guy claiming he salvaged a boat on the Caboolture River because he found it floating free. That's totally illegal inside our territorial waters .I think its about 200 miles from Australia. Only Registered salvagers can even touch a boat in Qld waters.  Cheers Bottman.

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Have just discussed Bullfrog with my son and have decided to increase the asking price to $300,000.00. Cheers Bottman

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Bottman signs the death warrant for Bullfrog. Sad outcome, pathetic person.

RIP Bullfrog.

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Bottman,

You are simply a self-indulgent, paranoid idiot.

Your attacks on Pil are so so far out of line. I was there, you were not. He faces up to his reality, you live in a parallel universe of conspiracy theories and blame of  anyone but you.

Enough, DtM out, tired of trying to deal with your weird concept of reality.

 

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1 hour ago, Bottman said:

DtM is your post a threat to damage Bullfrog? Bottman

Get some help for your paranoia, its becoming toxic and will start/is starting to seriously impact your life, and quite probably those around you.

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So it could appear that PIL had bought XL2 before he had enough experience to own a high performance boat of that calibre. Its obvious to some people he was not, was he?he was not that experienced to go out in the conditions which one acquaintance said appeared to be in the news shots to be flat, is that so? Bottman

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55 minutes ago, Bottman said:

So it could appear that PIL had bought XL2 before he had enough experience to own a high performance boat of that calibre. Its obvious to some people he was not, was he?he was not that experienced to go out in the conditions which one acquaintance said appeared to be in the news shots to be flat, is that so? Bottman

You have completely lost the plot. I genuinely feel bad that you got attacked and are now disabled. Having said that, all of us are recognizing how it’s affected you. You’re hiding behind delusions and attacking everyone that’s honest about reality. I went through this with my grandmother, and it’s awful, but we’re all just trying to be honest with you. I sincerely wish you well. 

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2 hours ago, Bottman said:

So it could appear that PIL had bought XL2 before he had enough experience to own a high performance boat of that calibre. Its obvious to some people he was not, was he?he was not that experienced to go out in the conditions which one acquaintance said appeared to be in the news shots to be flat, is that so? Bottman

You obviously have no idea about who you are addressing directly, nor anybody else here. 
 

It’s a very rare occasion for me to resort to using the report function, but on this occasion, I have. 
 

Please seek help, if not for yourself, for your family and loved ones.  

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Well, I quote you mad "FTA exists so a bunch of cunts san squawk about their nasty fragile rockets" and " the fucker who...….is going to be anally raped with a winch handle so hard the proctologist...….". It would appear the person responsible for these statements  is you mad.These statements appear on every post you send, don't they? I don't really think you are helping anyone who has put forward an argument on SA when you make statements like these ,what do you think? Bottman  

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5 hours ago, Bottman said:

Well, I quote you mad "FTA exists so a bunch of cunts san squawk about their nasty fragile rockets" and " the fucker who...….is going to be anally raped with a winch handle so hard the proctologist...….". It would appear the person responsible for these statements  is you mad.These statements appear on every post you send, don't they? I don't really think you are helping anyone who has put forward an argument on SA when you make statements like these ,what do you think? Bottman  

Thanks for reminding me about the signature line (you can choose to ignore posters that have these if you find it offensive, I have) :)

They are both quotes from other, long term posters made in jest, the one about ‘cunts squawking’ seems particularly apt for you on this occasion. As I’m not trained in dealing with people who have psychological issues, I’m not really here to help, especially in this situation with your paranoid delusions.  You need professional help and quite urgently as well. 
 

So in the meantime, I’m out of this conversation and I’ll leave you howling at the moon and yelling at clouds.  Onto ignore you go, bye bye. 

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This famous Crowther trimaran was made famous by two people.  Ian and Cathy.  Many others have owned the boat over the years and some have probably sailed it well.  We just really don't know them like we do Ian and Cathy.

 

But..... the reason we all know Bullfrog or (Bullfrog Verbatim to me) is because of the amazing feats of seamanship displayed by Ian and Cathy.  The boat is certainly special, but what is really special are those two people   

 

Ian and Cathy built the boat with not much money, limited resources but just showed courage and a level of determination seldom seen.  They, through even more adversity, they pushed on and turned their trimaran into a giant killer - a force of nature.

 

Just because you own a boat that is, in my opinion one of the most important racing tri's in Australia - this doesn't make you special - and your actions to this point certainly show us all who you are and what you stand for.  However, you now have the one thing that can make you as special as Ian and Cathy - you've got the boat.  Take a page out of the book of Ave Gitana and turn her into a weapon of a boat that can really show the fleet a thing or two.  You can do this, you can get out and sail, you can make this happen. - set some records - run the trans tasman solo race (next one is 2022 I think) and have a crack at breaking the solo round Australia record.  I'm certainly planning to do those things - and for a while had a dream of doing it in Bullfrog.  

 

I would have loved to purchased Bullfrog to basically rebuild her from the bottom of the rudder to the top of the mast.  Having followed your posts over the last twelve or eighteen months  I could see this was not going to happen.  Because Bottmman when all is said and done, you would rather try and live in the shadow of Ian and Cathy, and strut around the boatyard puffing out your chest while telling everyone who will listen (and many who don't want to) your opinion on everything.  From resolving issues with "flutter" on plane crashes to so many other, well, weird topics.  We don' t want to hear you talk - we want to watch you sail.  We want to see if you have what it takes.

 

I will keep reading this with a level of interest and I sincerely hope that you decide to sell the boat before it's just too late for the old girl.  If you get an offer of $50k take it and run.  The path you are on will potentially lead to misery for you if you become known as the bloke who killed Bullfrog when she could have been saved.

I think you need to stand up right now and go and look in your mirror.  Have a good look for at least two minutes.  Don't like what you see - it's time to fix it and start being more like Jason and Claudia who are admired by all for their achievements and inspire us to not only be better sailors but to be better people.

 

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Very, Very Well Said -  Thank You.

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@Bottman- I wish you and the boat you own well and am sad to read what you write because it makes it very very clear that neither of you are (well).  For gosh sakes man think. I don't know you or have any reason to think well or poorly of you. But even from half a world away I can see what so many here have already told you.  I sincerely hope you and the boat get help. Wess

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Who woulda thunk? Searched for the Allyacht Spars quote and it was in the computer all along. $3,621.13 . Quoted by Chris Somers. 25 items including labour for swaging. Date 23 April 2014. Has sailed to Caloundra once and to Bribie once.I arranged the crane to unstep the mast and do most of the work myself. Other than that provided me with entertainment and hasn't cartwheeled even once. Therefore no apology for possibly making insurance difficult to get,what do you think? Bottman

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Went to the Qld maritime museum a few years back and to my surprise Ellas Pink Lady was there embedded in the concrete, don't know if she can get out but she is there after the federal and state governments spent $300,000.00 purchasing her. So whats the governments thinking here? Don't they know that Multihull Anarchy are working themselves into a frenzy to get owners of boats out there regardless of whether they can sail or not, what do you think? Bottman

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Quote" The Rigging is so bad it would all fall overboard if you took it out to Moreton Bay". Do you know of any experienced yacht riggers who would be interested in inspecting Bullfrogs rigging to back your claims. It would need to be someone respected in the industry as a rigger and able to give an honest assessment on stainless steel rigging? There may be a difference of opinion with All Yacht Spars so will need someone who can stand by their assessment. I will transport the rigger you choose from Montys out to Bullfrog  100 metres. Does that sound fair? Bottman

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How about you just take her sailing and take a few pics. Despite the old saying, at this point I’d much prefer a picture over 1000 words.

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Trouble is that Father Time just keeps marching on, has no regard for coulda-shoulda-woulda and our opportunities slip away.

These boats are for young, dynamic people with a passion, they are the ones that make ‘em and sail ‘em.

Old folks get tired and cold anywhere near the boats limits and wonder, privately, what they are trying to prove anymore - for them it’s time to start talking back in the day and watching the videos.

 Jason rescued Spirit, enjoyed the task and cruised and raced her extensively. When I sailed on Spirit she was tired and soggy, one of the most disappointing trips I ever took, she sank at my dock and was nearly done. I never met Jason but he took his opportunity and put in the resources and sweat and the outcome was all win - for him and Spirits next owner.

We all enjoyed Jason’s tour of Bullfrog and I for one was inspired by Ian and Cathy’s adventures building and enjoying her. I would wager that Jason’s opinion of her current condition is valid, for him it must have been like meeting Spirit all over.

So as the days go by that restoration that Bullfrog needs gets more pressing as the soft spots get softer and more numerous. Wood does last a long time but only if you keep it dry - it’s actually a wonderful material to make trees out of - and in a marine environment, particularly on an optimized structure, it’s a battle.

I am faced with a similar dilemma so I understand your frustration Bottman and if this blog is doing it for you - enjoy - but finding a live one is like looking for needle in a haystack so you had best enjoy the boat yourself or get realistic about her real value and move on.

  

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So, with Spirit gone, will Jason / @trispirit buy Bullfrog? Or enter a time-share partnership with Bottman? :-)

Paul

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47 minutes ago, toolbar said:

So, with Spirit gone, will Jason / @trispirit buy Bullfrog? Or enter a time-share partnership with Bottman? :-)

Paul

Pretty sure Jason wants to move forwards not backwards ;-)

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Nothing personal against the current owner - but how awesome would it be for someone to get hold of this boat, stick it in a shed to dry out and put it back more towards how it was when launched but with some current tech / design features. Carbon rig, sails, high aspect centreboard and rudder, revision of the interior / cabin etc, modern hardware and rigging and bring it back down to fighting weight. Would be a really cool project that would attract some great attention. 

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Hmmmm, that sounds like our project without the shed part and the drying out!

in our case it’s only possible with our sponsors charging no rent for groundspace and, more importantly, us having the necessary skills to complete the rebuild without hired help. Hey, we still have a long way to go, no fat ladies singing yet!

 

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And that’s the beauty of an Aires/polyester/glass structure - all you need is fresh water and sunshine - Bingo! 

Oh - but there is still the sweat and enthusiasm bit but sounds like you are all set there too.

Triple Jack is another worthy cause for you guys and the kids to follow - the Fat Lady is waiting!

image.jpg

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