rogerball0

Westerly Anarchy

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The fearless swordsman wielding a hole saw.

 

Very nice work. your stuff makes me look like the amateur I am.

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PY i too am nothing more than an enthusiastic amateur, bit of practice / patience and all that.

 

HB you asked how the corners come together, hope this puts some paint on the canvas:

 

WP_004366.jpg

 

Thats the icebox in the forground, sink module in background and what will be a chest of drawers, (the side piece) below. Its still too cold to do any epoxying,

did this lot with d4 PVA, quick setting kind then left in lounge to marinate.

 

WP_004368.jpg

 

 

Red Danger

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My weekend efforts of late:

 

Below is the module that the sink and seacocks will go in, and to the left in the same module will be a rubbish bin accessed from the top over the draining board.

 

WP_004413.jpg

 

Below, what will be a fridge / coolbox.

 

WP_004430.jpg

 

And dry-fitted in their respective places, they'll be a super narrow door to go on the sink module so theres access to the seacocks and stuff.

 

WP_004432.jpg

 

And what will be a half decent sized chest of drawers to store things which will go to the left of the above.

 

WP_004437.jpg

 

Have found it mentally less taxing to knock everything up as blank boxes, scribe to the hull then set about making cuts for doors and drawers afterwards.

 

 

 

Bonsoir.

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Someone really likes his pocket screw jig! I trust you are using stainless screws with it.

 

Looking good.

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Oh yes! The Kreg jig is the ninth wonder of the world in my eyes, the eighth of course being 'marine' pricing, yep always stainless even if they're a bit dearer than yer standard screw although a cursary look around the insides of a few boats at last years show looked distinctly like the ones i use on land.

 

Gonna fit the drawer module then remove everything from the boat and start cutting for openings and test fit ironmongery.

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I am so freaking jealous of your wood working skills. I looked up Kreg jig to see what it is.

I know what a "jig" is, but it's still not immediately obvious to me, how the Kreg helps you.

 

If I ever get spare time and a few extra pennies, I'm going to sign up for some sort of beginner's carpentry or woodworking class.

I'll never figure this shit out by reading books.

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Cheers guys, your words mean alot, especially when i'm this far down the hole with no sign of the exit just yet, have just fitted up what will be the captains chest 'o' drawers to the left of the cooker.

 

The woodworking skills i got from my dad as did my brothers from a very early age and although i do it for a living i'll always consider myself an amateur when compared to elder brother Richard (our man in NZ) and a couple of others i've worked who i deem to operate on a different brain frequency - its scary. Really does make my efforts look a little wanting - still nothing like a kick up the arse to up yer game abit.

 

Yeah the kreg part of kreg jig is the brand, its a great little tool for making butt joints quickly and accurately.

 

Here's the general arrangement of all things domestic, picture quality is poor, i think there's loads of dust floating around the saloon although can't explain the 'pink-o-vision' .

 

WP_004440.jpg

 

and here too

 

WP_004441.jpg

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Years ago C&C used to have extruded alu corner posts similar in radius to Rogers. They were very clever. They were anodized dark brown. I got C&C to send me some of the extrusion and I used it in the kitchen when I remodeled the Ballard house. Roger's corners look much better. My contractor hated those alu corner posts.

 

I still want to know exactly what wood makes up the radius. Is this multiple veneers bent over the jog?

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Ok, so the cabinetry is overhanging that bilge framework with all the circular holes. Obviously something is going to occupy that space, and the edges will not be hanging in space, right?

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Years ago C&C used to have extruded alu corner posts similar in radius to Rogers. They were very clever. They were anodized dark brown. I got C&C to send me some of the extrusion and I used it in the kitchen when I remodeled the Ballard house. Roger's corners look much better. My contractor hated those alu corner posts.

 

I still want to know exactly what wood makes up the radius. Is this multiple veneers bent over the jog?

 

Bob congratulations you on your latest commission, just been reading the story, nice problem to have eh? Tell me did you think you heard him wrong when he said four?

 

Apropos the curvy stuff; i did find a supplier in the UK that does these corner mouldings but got bored waiting for them to get back to me so carried on with various kerfing experiments and struck gold on the second day.

 

Long story short its all bog standard 12mm marine ply, the corner pieces start out as a strip about 300mm by the height of the cabinet (700mm) and cutting against the grain of the outer most lamination of ply i cut a series of grooves the width of the saw blade (2mm) to within 2mm of the outer surface and spaced 2mm apart. then filled these grooves with cabosil'd wests to peanut butter consistency and then bent these strips one at a time over the jig i made and screwed down with a hardwood batten to hold the radius whilst the epoxy kicked

 

The pics of the process are on page 1 (post 81) of this thread, the only difficult bit is replicating the grooves to the same space and depth about 30 times on each strip to make it bend, on my shitty £300 site saw its abit of an art as accuracy is not its USP.

 

Back in the day for domestic applications i'd use multiple laminations of 3mm MDF as its super floppy yet dimensionally stable, i discovered aeroply even at 1.5mm is still very stiff as i found to my cost making the curved sofa module (think wrestling a dog into a bath) and actual flexiply which i used to build the curved bulkhead from is only good for radii around 200mm.

 

To take the mental strain out of the process you could use something like a decorative veneer, say 0.8mm, this would be easy to make these corners from, laminated multiple times over a former but cost would be a significant factor, bascally my way saved money by using ply.

 

Ok, so the cabinetry is overhanging that bilge framework with all the circular holes. Obviously something is going to occupy that space, and the edges will not be hanging in space, right?

 

Ajax the space below will get a rather spiffing kick board with a stainless steel vent running the full length to airate the bilge / keel sump area, the cut out on the floor under where the sink will go (by the companionway) will be to accomodate a foot pump for the water tap and will be set back so wont be readily kicked off went not in use.

 

The edges will be hanging in the air as i cant stand water stains in wood where theres contact to the floor, i've capped that bottom edge in solid oak and edges of things like the sofa front and companionway cabinet will get a detail routed into the bottom edge where they meet the floor something like 6mm high and 6mm deep so the flooring can slide up under neath and will create a shadow gap so the edge you see will not contact the floor in anyway so no water stains............well thats the theory.

 

WP_004451.jpg

 

cheers

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When they're on a vehicle of any sort they are called "lightening holes" - see race cars, hot rods & aircraft. ;):D

 

Not common on boats but they are very cool looking.

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Cheers, the primary function is to give access to the keel bolts, something Westerly didn't seem too fussed about.

 

WP_004058.jpg

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Oh yes! The Kreg jig is the ninth wonder of the world in my eyes, the eighth of course being 'marine' pricing, yep always stainless even if they're a bit dearer than yer standard screw although a cursary look around the insides of a few boats at last years show looked distinctly like the ones i use on land.

 

Gonna fit the drawer module then remove everything from the boat and start cutting for openings and test fit ironmongery.

I have to disagree, the biscuit jointer is the 8th wonder of the world. You can pry mine out of my cold dead hands...

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Oh yes! The Kreg jig is the ninth wonder of the world in my eyes, the eighth of course being 'marine' pricing, yep always stainless even if they're a bit dearer than yer standard screw although a cursary look around the insides of a few boats at last years show looked distinctly like the ones i use on land.

 

Gonna fit the drawer module then remove everything from the boat and start cutting for openings and test fit ironmongery.

I have to disagree, the biscuit jointer is the 8th wonder of the world. You can pry mine out of my cold dead hands...

 

 

Good point although i'm more of wafer man myself; you know running out 4mm ply into strips and jointing that way, cheaper and a better quality joint imo having one long biscuit along the length of the joint - i do possess a biscuiter but its seldom used.

 

You gotta wonder how the ancients built what they did with no power tools, i'm lost if it doesn't have voltage!

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Roger. Thanks again for the pictures and all the detailed descriptions. This thread is an inspiration and shows what can be done without a million dollar workshop.

 

Cheers

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Roger. Thanks again for the pictures and all the detailed descriptions. This thread is an inspiration and shows what can be done without a million dollar workshop.

 

Cheers

 

ExactlyPY, you dont have to spend fortunes, in reality the tools i carry as a jobbing carpenter are what alot blokes have in their sheds anyway; jigsaw. circular saw, cordless drills, chop saw, routers and table saw, nothing you couldn't buy at home depot.

 

Dont get me wrong i'd love a table saw thats a bit more accurate but i know i can make just as good with what i've got and plus a grand spent on machinery is a grand not going towards the boat. Looking back the best decision i've made on this project to date was building the new shop next door to the shed, that really saved the boat from the chainsaw

 

I'll be a bit sad when i have to tear the lot down and let the grass grow back but then thats the start of the next adventure.....................................................

Spent yesterday and today fattening up the fiddle detail around the top of each module to 22mm filling all the screwheads and joints and capping edges in hardwood. Everythings now bolted back in so next weekend i can start marking out for doors and drawerfronts.

 

 

 

WP_004457.jpg

 

WP_004473.jpg

 

cheers

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Roger:

Are you going to cut any "limber holes" in that fiddle you you can clean out the corner easily?

I think it looks beautiful unbroken but I don't think, as I use a galley, it is practical. If I was drawing that galley I;d cut at least two, 6" long 1.75" high slots that went flush with counter top, with radiused ends so they could be clean outs AND hand holds.

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Roger:

Are you going to cut any "limber holes" in that fiddle you you can clean out the corner easily?

I think it looks beautiful unbroken but I don't think, as I use a galley, it is practical. If I was drawing that galley I;d cut at least two, 6" long 1.75" high slots that went flush with counter top, with radiused ends so they could be clean outs AND hand holds.

 

Hey Bob thanks for looking in, have to admit i like it unbroken too but you make a valid point i'll put that on my job notes for next weekend and sketch a few things out.

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Really good looking work Roger.

I only learned how to work with composites, you can hide a lot behind LP paint....

 

I'll always wish I'd had some real woodchuck blood running in my veins. I can see stuff in my minds eye but cannot seem to transfer it through to my hands.

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Really good looking work Roger.

I only learned how to work with composites, you can hide a lot behind LP paint....

 

I'll always wish I'd had some real woodchuck blood running in my veins. I can see stuff in my minds eye but cannot seem to transfer it through to my hands.

 

Cheers Hobot fwiw i wish i knew more about composite technology, i learnt on the job enough to get done what i needed to do but wish i knew more, i think my best attempts with epoxy and cloth were the keels and stubs, thank goodness for Microlight 410, - hides a multitude of sins eh?:

 

WP_000499.jpg

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Roger:

You may want to "crisp" up that trailing edge. It looks heavily radiused to me. Water doesn't like that. It's a small thing but you are doing such a good job I'd like to see that level of care carried through.

 

I know, everyone has ways for you to spend your time and money.

Hey, you invited us to this party!

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Cheers, the primary function is to give access to the keel bolts, something Westerly didn't seem too fussed about.

 

WP_004058.jpg

Any chance you could store a wine/liquor bottle in the bigger holes? Other than that fantastic work Roger.

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Roger:

You may want to "crisp" up that trailing edge. It looks heavily radiused to me. Water doesn't like that. It's a small thing but you are doing such a good job I'd like to see that level of care carried through.

 

I know, everyone has ways for you to spend your time and money.

Hey, you invited us to this party!

 

No worries Bob, i appreciate your advice. The wetted area needs a bit more work especially between the keels before the coppercoat. The 'drinkers nose' look on the bottom of the trailing edge wasn't part of the plan more a balls up when i sheathed the leading edge and sole with kevlar i forgot to stagger it towards the back of the the keel and ended up with a lump at the back end, as i later discovered, sanding proved fruitless so faired the back end as best i could.

 

WP_000409.jpg

 

WP_000389.jpg

 

Full keel saga from beginning to end:

 

https://picasaweb.google.com/110182886418433827802/KeelsOct2008Apr2013?authuser=0&feat=directlink

 

cheers

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Cheers, the primary function is to give access to the keel bolts, something Westerly didn't seem too fussed about.

 

WP_004058.jpg

Any chance you could store a wine/liquor bottle in the bigger holes? Other than that fantastic work Roger.

 

Cheers HA, I haven't tried but its entirely possible. i'll get back to you on that one.

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Really impressed with the corner making jig, great idea.

 

Did you consider taping the concave side as well?

 

I like the contrast between the horizontal veneer on the corners and vertical veneer on the panels, and a distinct line ? gap between them, should look good if they are clear finished.

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Roger, I just started reading this thread. You are doing a great job on the boat. I like the kerfed radius panels and the access holes for the keel bolts. The raised toe kick will make it a bit more comfortable when standing at the galley front. Was that on purpose or a serendipitous result of providing the keel bolt access? I suppose if you ever got a forced air furnace you could also use it as a heater duct.

 

Keep posting!

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Really impressed with the corner making jig, great idea.

 

Did you consider taping the concave side as well?

 

I like the contrast between the horizontal veneer on the corners and vertical veneer on the panels, and a distinct line ? gap between them, should look good if they are clear finished.

 

Cheers Olaf, yes i should have taped as it would have been cheaper in epoxy, also the fact that each panel sprang past 90 degrees a day or to after being released from the jig would make taping the back edge a winner in holding the panels shape.

 

There wont be any clearcoat, well there will be after all the modules are veneered in American white oak so all the ply on show will be going.

 

Roger, I just started reading this thread. You are doing a great job on the boat. I like the kerfed radius panels and the access holes for the keel bolts. The raised toe kick will make it a bit more comfortable when standing at the galley front. Was that on purpose or a serendipitous result of providing the keel bolt access? I suppose if you ever got a forced air furnace you could also use it as a heater duct.

 

Keep posting!

Yep thats part the reason for the toe kick so you dont stoop whilst stood at the counters and also keeping water out the wood work appeals too. it was planned that way as i liked the idea of a reinforced box over the keel stub to mitigate torsion in that part of the structure, i undertook a similar idea with settee berth opposite, i hope it works.

 

The achelles of the Centaurs design is the stubs twist and in some cases have cracked although this is easily remedied with webs glassed transversely into the stub floor, mine had been done and cost a small fortune back in the day (have the receipt in the boats paperwork) didn't stop me ripping out two of the four webs with my bare hands, all had been glassed directly onto an oily/shiny bilge.

 

Keel%2520%252833%2529.jpg

 

Top Job!

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Ajax, I have quite a few Kreg products..they are great, but I am not real good at using them yet. When you are down in the area and we have some garage screw-off time, we can tinker with the various bits.

 

If you help me get OpenCPN running on my XP laptop, dedicated only to the application of running that app on the boat, I'll let you play with my Kreg jigs! :huh::o:DB)

 

Thanks Roger..keep up the good work.

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That sounds dirty Hike, take it to the garage...

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Hike. What's your issue running Opening on an XP laptop? I've got it running on an xp tough book without issues.

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No more XP updates, correct?

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That doesn't matter. I had it running nicely on an old Sony laptop with XP. Now it runs nicely on Windows 7 on same old laptop. XP SP3 or whatever ran just fine.

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Its been a while but since i got a week off work i thought i'd tackle the boats windows, sure i could've gone and bought some but wheres the fun in that?

 

Had a go previously and got bored mainly due to the poor quality of ply so seeing as i wanted a nice trim detail in oak to match the rest of the insides i decided to make the inner frames out of white oak with an epoxy glass outer bonded and screwed to it.

 

So far i've got the inners made and and a jig (oooh i do luv a jig) to route out the windows on the coachroof, did this seeing as the original ones were cut in completely pissed and subsequently didn't line through, bloody annoying to look at!

 

Hence:

 

The jig

 

WP_004889.jpg

 

The new holes:

 

WP_004895.jpg

 

The inner frames:

 

WP_004885.jpg

 

Tomorrow i'll start cutting the outer frames.

 

Album here

 

cheers

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Wait, tell me again how this is easier than building an entirely new boat? :D

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Wait, tell me again how this is easier than building an entirely new boat? :D

 

This wasn't lost on my elder brother when he came over for Christmas, (Rik) - "Whats it been six years Rog, surely wouldn't it have been easier to have built a new boat from scratch" - (Me) "well yeah kinda (I mumbled a bit, hands in pockets kicking the ground) but you know it was Dad's boat ......................and.................................er,....................um......................... oh fuck off will yer!

 

It was great seeing him, honest!

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Fair enough!

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The builder I bought my first hull from said the same thing - I ran into him when he was finishing up a complete reno of his 38 and he said it would have been faster & easier to build a new boat from his moulds.

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The builder I bought my first hull from said the same thing - I ran into him when he was finishing up a complete reno of his 38 and he said it would have been faster & easier to build a new boat from his moulds.

 

I think it was after the gelpeel, when there was other numerous holes and bits missing off the structure that i realised i was further back than if i had started with just a hull and deck, the weird hold boats have on us - its strange the things we do eh?

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Hi Rog, nice updates, could you glue glass on the outside for your windows, or do you specially want the capping. Glued on, means no leaks ever and no soggy wood where fresh water sits for 5 years. Also, you mentioned copper coat, does it work better in the upper hemisphere as my only experience with it ended with my mate sanding it all off to go with a trad coating. Nice work.

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Holy f---, wooden trim rings??

Ok, it'll look classy. I see that you've chosen oak which is rot-resistant but you are going to varnish these to give them long lives, right? I realize that the UK has no UV to speak of, but the cold and wet won't do these trim pieces any favor.

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Cheers guys, yeah the plexiglass will be bonded into the frame, i've spent alot of time designing the actual detail for the window and tried to incorporate the coachroof structure but the lay-up around the openings varies from 3mm to 8mm, just absymal - so made the window frame rebated so that it will sit in the opening via the outer frame, if that makes sense.

 

Regarding leaks i intend bonding the lexan with 295uv into the rebate you see in the oak, although i still haven't figured out what to paint the frit band with to hide the bondas that'll have a bearing on adhesion strength, many i've spoken to suggest heat-proof paint as it provides excellent adhesion to glass so need to experiment. Regarding the timber it'll get the full 6 coats of Gougeon brothers finest and then 6 coats of satin goodness in varying reductions.

 

Yep got the coppercoat in the cupboard, turns out i was a bit premature buying it, tbh the idea of not having to antifoul for 10 to 20 years appeals greatly, that said theres endless threads here in the uk of people having problems with the system after very little time. I wont speak for them but having talked extensively with Ewan (one of the partners of coppercoat) alot of problems occur during application, (substrate condition, air temperatures, humidity etc, these could potentially have a bearing on success.

 

Also depends on the water, sounds daft but the few complaints i've read are where water is fresh / brackish problems have been reported as well as adhesion to lead keels. If you go to ybw.com forum and type in coppercoat theres a plethora of threads on the subject.

 

I'll post more pictures when i've got the first one dry fitted........................

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Hot off the press.................................

 

The screws you see will be filled and faired away.

 

WP_004909.jpg

 

New meet Old.

 

WP_004910.jpg

 

Still got a bit of work to do.

 

WP_004911.jpg

 

Dunno whether to use pan heads or countersunk for the screws to bolt the lot together with so just drilled the holes for now.

 

WP_004912.jpg

 

Roger and out.

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Countersunk.

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No screws, just glue or 5200. Why plexi and not glass? I know it's a bit more expensive but well worth it in the long run. Those frames will look glamour. Could you epoxy them in then paint over the lot, then glue in the windows, eliminating another potential leak?

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Edit, frit band can be put on glass like the edge of your windscreen, so very nice, but I've always just had urethane and it's been fine, no paint.

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Ok cool, countersunk it is if i go mechanical fix Sloop, thats what the old ones were but have been deliberating whether to bond the whole lot, just thinking if they've ever got to come out would be easy if they've been screwed and sealed rather than bonded to cabin.

 

Traz i was thinking glass as the old ones were but dont know the cost, what have you used for a frit band? everybody i've asked says exhaust / heatproof paint, the band wont be big just about 12mm (1/2") and was gonna mask the window in and paint on, sound right, any tips?

 

What do you reckon, vacuum them onto the side of the cabin? Aft ones not a problem as it sits naturally against the cabin side, the front one needs pulling around near the front bottom of the frame, only talking about 6mm, was erring towards plexiglass as its flexible then remembered the originals were toughened glass so should work.

 

Once i got the method nailed down on the first frame the second one went quick (about an hour), all the cutters are absolutely buggered making these two frames and that was cutting as close to the line as possible with a jigsaw using a metal-cutting blade so all the routers had to do was trim 1mm +/- off everything, just shows how tough epoxy and glass - the rebate cutter has a concave profile where before it was square, may have a trip out to the wholesalers for another one, see how bad it smokes tomorrow when i use it.

 

Windows that line through.......................

 

WP_004919.jpg

 

WP_004922.jpg

 

Cheers

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Edit, frit band can be put on glass like the edge of your windscreen, so very nice, but I've always just had urethane and it's been fine, no paint.

 

I think a good frit looks way better than blobby urethane. Urethane's a bitch to get bubble-free.

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Ish, the best results I've had were when I put a line of double sided foam tape (about 4mm wide by 4mm thick) around the inside of the rebate then pooed in about half the necessary urethane (enough to take up some volume but not enough to squeeze over the tape). Then put the window in place and prop it in hard against the foam tape using toms etc. then force in more urethane with a plastic putty knife until any voids are filled. You can see the voids through the glass and the air escapes through the foam tape. When done and cleaned up it just looks like a black edge, you can't even see the tape poo joint.

 

This way you can even force in toughened glass against the foam around quite a bend.

 

Mine are masked at the mo so I can't take a pic.

 

 

Alternatively if going glass you can get the same ceramic frit as a windscreen put on by the glass people.

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Cheers Bob currently making some glass sheet to crisp up the trailing edges of keels, will post some pics when up and running, wanna get them down to about 2mm at the back if poss, need to do this to the rudder too. iI doing so it'll make the keels about 4" longer at the bottom i mean i know shes no racer but is that a bad thing making the keels a wee bit longer?

 

Traz i never thought of that, (getting the glass company to put the frit on) & theres a big glass processor up the road from me, will get some quotes. I get what you're saying now, use the actual goop to make the frit, i do similar with glass splash backs on kitchen installs. I got a couple of tubes left over from when i did my keels so if they're in date will give 'em a go although on second thoughts that me a bit too much, although I'm sold on using glass as they'll be no crazing / cloudy / milky windows.

 

A possible solution to the frit band could be sika's uv strip for glass although it mounts on the outside - two things strike me about this:

 

1) Its sika so would probably have to sell a body part to buy the stuff &

 

2) Mounted on the outside of the window will look mega-shit.

 

Still, a couple of window installs i've seen that worked had the frame set horizontally on the bench with the glass set on spacers to get the correct orientation both horizontally and vertically to the frame then small amounts of goop, almost like a tack weld to hold the frame in position then after the goops set remove spacers mask everything in and go crazy with the goop gun, this sounds like a great excuse to dig out my air-fed one!

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The tape will hold the glass in position while you poo it, if you can rig some props.

post-97971-0-26852900-1436524584_thumb.jpg

 

Automotive ceramic glass frit.

 

post-97971-0-04214800-1436524650.jpgpost-97971-0-59380300-1436524722_thumb.png

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Cheers Traz gonna take a trip out to my local glass place early next week and do some brain picking.

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I totally misunderstood, I thought the oak trim rings were external.

This looks very nice. I agree that fritting on the outside would not look good.

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Bang on Ajax, glad you're upto speed on it, gonna sit down with the vacuum kit tomorrow and figure out how to get the decorative cloth on them, cheers for looking in.

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Quick update, got the first frame sheathed and in the bag, took my time so as not to disturb the line of the weave whilst gently stippling everything down into place, went with a black pigmented basecoat of wests over a couple of coats with 422 additive on the oak part of the frame facing out to sea then another coat of neat wests.

 

After wet sanding this morning got a skinny veil-type cloth out the rack to have ago live with resin to see what the problems would be getting everything down over the frame and it went so well i left the veil on and went over the top of that with silver carbon (Silvershadow, i think aka Alufibre). Then peel plied, breather and bagged, managed to forgot the bread wrap but seeing as it pulled down so well into the rebate didn't want to unplug the air valve so have left.

 

I did a black basecoat as the silvercarbon is so foil-like to look at thought it might look a bit cheap and sparkly so it is has a slightly darker hue to the fabric, looks 'boss' as the kids would say:

 

WP_004932.jpg

 

In the bag:

 

WP_004933.jpg

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Damn, you have skills. I think you need an extended vacation along the Chesapeake, where you can "share" these skills. :)

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Thanks guys, just come back from the pub and pulled it from the bag, definately need bread wrap on it next time, the breather cloth was a solid lump - like wrestling a croc. I got one bloody tuck in the bottom right hand corner, the only one! Ahhhhhhh!

 

Wondering whether to lose the vacuum as it went in looking better imo, although arguably unconsolidated

 

Throwing this out to the group, as i dont know enough, Is the tuck sandable or should i do it again, all ideas greatly received?

 

Pretty chuffed OTOH as this is a bit complex for my skills set but damn annoying as there is only one blemish.

 

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Looks pretty good apart from that bottom right corner.

 

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Bit of a git

 

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cheers (slightly bloody annoyed!)

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Roger:

On the carbon cutters they use a "fuzz" layer over the breather to absorb the resin and pull it away from the breather.

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You'll need to fill the weave to smooth things out - that'll take care of that blemish.

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Roger:

On the carbon cutters they use a "fuzz" layer over the breather to absorb the resin and pull it away from the breather.

 

I've been trawling the web since posting those last pics and found a couple of types of 'bleeder' material that sound similar to what you describe - a blanket that absorbs the resin and holds it in that layer, will call my FG supplies firm to see if they stock the stuff, I answered my own question from earlier too (bit impatient) as i 'tickled' the silvercarbon with 400g wet and dry - got the tucks out but damaged the laminate so will relaminate tomorrow night after work.

 

Think tomorrow nights recipe will include a soupcon of bread wrap to keep the breather half way flexible although that'll hold more resin to the workpiece - not necessarily a good thing - and a bleed valve added to the bag so i can regulate the pressure whilst evacuating the air so its not quite so 'shit-or-bust' next time.

 

What with the silvercarbon costing £15 per square metre i want to solve this problem sooner rather than later

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Hi Roger. Cool work, as always. Although I doubt it is available in the silver effect you want, a nice cloth for the complex shapes you are bagging is a Satin Weave in either 4, 8 or 12 Harness. Much more drapable than 2x2 Twill. Keep up the brilliant work. Eric

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Roger: I'll get the exact name of the "fuzz" today.

cheers Bob

 

Eric, cheers for the support, will look into it as theres a few other bits i want to lam up so will see what the alternatives are, just giving that frame a second hit of cloth, will post some pics when done.

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If you can get the cloth into the corner by hand without any 'bridging' it may be easier to do it without the vacuum. You need resin on the surface to fill the weave but the bag will eliminate this. Another advantage is being able to brush another coat of resin over the laminate as the first tacks off, giving you something to sand, before a uv stable clear coat. Vacuum bagging has it's advantages but they are probably minimal in this application.

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Thats a handjob unless a counter mould.
My way:
Next time hand job and trim off as much glass as possible, keep a fine scissor ready, even a tweezers.

No peelply, you need to clearcoat (UV) it anyway, and finer cloth as mentioned above.

Keep returning and adjusting till green fase.

 

Oh and before starting work, make sure the workpieces, cloth and resin are all at the same temperature.

 

you can try to fix the edge by heating it up and forming it a bit, it aint structural, so reheating not a problem, but overshoot the Heat Distortion temperature of the resin not to much.

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Its as if you guys have read my mind, i did it by hand tonight and did indeed keep going round and round until the resin started to harden up, all the time stippling with a brush and pushing the cloth into the rebate with the edge of a stirrer stick (imagine large lollipop-type sticks), then once it had stablized did a couple of coats of neat unthickened resin and whacked it in the bag with some bread wrap this time round.

 

Will pull it at 10pm, (went in at 8) back in a tick.........................................

 

**EDIT**

 

WP_004963.jpg

 

Success!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Yes, beautiful. Congratulations

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You have given me some ideas, damn you. Nice work.

Maybe the ultimate solution to C&C window leaks? (many have struggled but few have vanquished...)

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Little bit of progress, doing a few bits in the evenings:

 

The first one after alot of epoxy coatings:

 

WP_20150720_18_39_10_Rich.jpg

 

Three in a bag romp:

 

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Second one being epoxy-coated before they all get a hit of UV clearcoat:

 

WP_20150720_18_36_18_Rich.jpg

 

Keel crisping in progress (working stuff out):

 

WP_20150720_18_40_29_Rich.jpg

 

Now a couple of questions:

 

(Anyone) Since i've been clear coating the frames they're outgassing like a fucka, is that due to me laddling too much on or something else as they're appears to be quite a few pin holes in the surface although the finish is pretty ace.

 

(Bob), ref, crisping up the trailing edges, i've worked out to get the keels to a nice crisp trailing edge would add 100mm to the back of the keel, i know shes not a racer but is there anything wrong (in your opinion) with me adding a plate to the existing trailing edge then fair to a fine edge as i know whats under that primer coat and dont really want to disturb it.

 

I've made the plates out of Kevlar and biaxial cloth with the idea of bonding them via a fillet of thickened epoxy (not too unlike the bobstay attachment on your cutters) then tab, fill and fair, sound like a good idea or am i still high from the acetone and pump fumes?.

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You don't need to taper the keel trailing edge out to a razor edge, you can just square it up with sharp corners - the Kamm effect

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Cheers Sloop does that mean a razor edge (in my case 3mm) would be beneficial over a square edge, (just wondering not trying to antagonise)

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AFAIK the dynamics are much the same but keeping a razor edge intact on a keel without chipping can be problematic, especially when it's (usually) just filler.

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Adding kevlar to the plates will just give you brain damage without adding much. Maybe a little at the bottom for if it sits on a rock, but as little as possible as its a pain in the cock to work. Those window frames look cool as shit.

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A word or two in Praise of Roger

 

For those of you who do not know this man......

 

Roger is a splendid bloke and an utterly agreeable sailing companion

 

I slept like a baby when he was on watch

 

the-last-supper-300x225.jpg

 

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he did the delivery with me of a Centaur (just like the one he is re-building) the 500 miles to Scotland and he is an excellent and reliable sailor and gave every impression of enjoying the journey.

 

It is great to see this boat being re-born - his workmanship is impeccable.

 

But.....

 

I can only hope that he enjoys fettling as much as he enjoys sailing

 

 

here he is writing about the experience of sailing with a man he labels hyperactive just becaue I occasionally moved the genoa cars

 

http://www.keepturningleft.co.uk/sailing-around-britain/rogers-version/

 

and inevitably.... there is a film of the journey

 

his verbal post mortem is at 30 minutes in

 

 

He has offered to take me sailing in the boat when it is doen

 

I fear I shall not live long enough and I am not touching the helm until he has put the first scratch on her

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I've got loads of very good westerrly centaur memories as my dad was owning one when I was a teenager.

 

This is the first non dinghy boat I've skippered just after turning 16 (on this day, the boat deicded to test my abilities and I had to scull her out of the Rance barrage lock when the propeller went AWOL), the boat of my first cross channel crossing (after several failed attempts, our own safety rule was that you needed 1 nautical mile of visibility to cross safely the shipping lane, out of frustration at the perfidious Albion who was constantly hiding behind fog patches or drizzle and forvcing us to U-turn to Guernsey, a radar was eventually bought and that was the year of the succesful crossing) and we've criss-crossed the channel islands with it many many times, I suspect that at the end she would steer around the minquiers or up and down the Russel on her own... She was called Oleric and the autopilot nickname was "Nestor", from the start she was equipped with a Decca and we couldn't believe how blessed we were to know our position with such precision (when the green light was on, we would assume 1/4 of a Nautical mile).

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the autopilot nickname was "Nestor",

 

Wasn't Nestor the butler in one of the Tintin books? ?Secret de la Licorne?

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the autopilot nickname was "Nestor",

 

Wasn't Nestor the butler in one of the Tintin books? ?Secret de la Licorne?

 

 

That is correct and this is also why the autopilot was nicknamed Nestor.

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I always found Tin Tin

 

4424059-tintin-appears1.jpg

 

rather annoying but I liked Captain Haddock

 

haddock.png

 

 

and the Thomson Twins

 

brothers.png

 

 

and then this came up - and I am confused at 59

 

captain_haddock_and_tin_tin_by_wolfbyhea

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A word or two in Praise of Roger

 

For those of you who do not know this man......

 

Roger is a splendid bloke and an utterly agreeable sailing companion

 

 

Sounds like he suffers from "excessive reasonableness" ;)

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Adding kevlar to the plates will just give you brain damage without adding much. Maybe a little at the bottom for if it sits on a rock, but as little as possible as its a pain in the cock to work. Those window frames look cool as shit.

 

Traz, realised that this morning when i tried trimming them with the router and got a mini yellow afro around the collet of the tool and a pile of yellow fluff along the edge so made another panel out of 5 layers of 600g bi-ax cloth, in the bag at the moment.

 

Dylan - cheers it'll get done soon.............somewhere between 2016 and 2032 and not a moment later!

 

Regarding tillerpilots one boat i sailed on, it was known as 'Adolf' and on another it was affectionately referred to as 'The dalek'.

 

Will some pics later, currently itching like a madman having spent the morning sanding the frames down again, only had one fuck up out of the three that were in the bag so gonna re-laminate this afternoon, just found out wests do a proper clear coat resin, couldn't figure out why the frames are getting darker with each pass of clearcoat - one now looks very opaque, bit gutted

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That was my hunch. Hypothesis proven. QED.

 

Do like names like that for the autopilot.

 

Yes, who could do the job of attending the tiller without complaints for hours better than the butler of a grumpy old salt?

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I had a really old, two part tiller AP on the P'winkle. I looked at it when I got the boat and thought that can't possibly work. But the sweet little P'winkle had the directional stability of a flea and single handing it was a challenge at times. One day for the hell of it I plugged in the AP. That changed my life! I called it "Larry" after my late friend. Larry was a great helmsman.

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