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I would say a temporary stage until the have the grinders bikes ready in few weeks.

 

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1 minute ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Nothing in the vid about it.

So could have been a smart arse comment about one of the other teams out for a casual ride around the sound.

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Earlier, waterfront scuttlebutt from Bermuda had it that Oracle Team USA had been trialling a cycle grinder system within their shed in the Royal Dockyard.

Good old RG again. Coming up with the intell.

 

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32 minutes ago, Barnyb said:

America's Cup - Oracle Team USA copies Kiwis and installs Bike Grinder

 

With just over two weeks before the start of the America's Cup regattas, sources in Bermuda have told Sail-World that Defender Oracle Team USA have installed a Bike Grinding station on their AC50 and were trialling on the dock in Bermuda, today.

The new grinding pedestal is located in the same cockpit as helmsman Jimmy Spithill and is located immediately behind the twice America's Cup winning skipper.

Tactician Tom Slingsby is expected to provide the pedal power with the other two hand-grinding pedestals remaining in place.

 

http://www.sail-world.com/NZ/Americas-Cup---Oracle-Team-USA-copies-Kiwis-and-installs-Bike-Grinder/153616

Holy crap! That's a serious development.

Part of me is jubilant that it is a tacit admission that ETNZ are ahead in at least one area.

The other part of me wants to cry at the prospect of Oracle overtaking us yet again by copying our innovation.

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2 minutes ago, Kiwing said:

@Jaysper

When they have 4 pedals is the time to worry?

That is the next logical step.

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So given that they look to be following ETNZ into the cycling route, I suspect the most likely scenario is that Wussell stated in January that it was a crap idea and immediately bough the boys some bikes.

So, they could easily have been practicing for 4 months on this. :(

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1 minute ago, jaysper said:

So given that they look to be following ETNZ into the cycling route, I suspect the most likely scenario is that Wussell stated in January that it was a crap idea and immediately bough the boys some bikes.

So, they could easily have been practicing for 4 months on this. :(

Only 3 months (Feb 14 reveal) but yes it's possible they've been practicing that long.  For one sailor position anyway?

The biggest thing could be freeing Slingsby's hands, and his view.

 

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I haven't been following the Oracle crew rotations - have Slingsby and Langford been switching it up?

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Why are people concerned about this? Surely it's a distraction for these guys.

Wasn't the biggest barrier to entry the fact you'd have to turn sailors into cyclists and this would be nearly impossible to do in the space of a few months?

How long has ETNZ been working on this? Nearly 2 years right? That's 2 years on the technology AND physical training.

 

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10 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Only 3 months (Feb 14 reveal) but yes it's possible they've been practicing that long.  For one sailor position anyway?

The biggest thing could be freeing Slingsby's hands, and his view.

 

I doubt that. If they've gone down this route (which it certainly seems they have), then I would have thought it would be sensible to go all in.

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1 hour ago, Mariner said:

and again Oracle chasing after the Kiwis for the edge just like foiling in SF

Yep. They're bloody fast learners too. Not much in the way of innovation, but when you can 'adapt' so fast, why risk it?

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5 hours ago, Mariner said:

Looking at all this and getting excited for some real Cup sailing, a couple quick thoughts for the gang here...

1. Looking at OTUSA I wonder... does LE really still want the Cup? is it a burden by now for him? has keeping this AC team employed become an anchor at all?

 

2. Are there any secrets about the boats that the teams are about to keep under wraps any more? Everything is so exposed on these things.

 

Give us your thoughts.

 

Wish I could go for this. I was in Valencia twice, and here in SF last time. Feeling a bit left out but I can only hope the broadcast is high quality and readily available. Here in the SF bay area Comcast Sportsnet has recently become NBC sports so I'm thinking it will be easy . fingers crossed . Go.. anyone but Oracle!

I'm a firm believer that you're right in that Larry's ready to move on. A big clue is that Oracle isn't running the biggest team out there, they chose not to build the second boat allowed, and they're playing nice with a lot of the challengers.  Those aren't signs of someone hell bent on carrying on.  He isn't throwing in the towel, but it seems like it isn't the massive effort of past campaigns.

 

We almost never see him in or around the team, paying for a boat you can't even sail on is just boring, and he can always say he's both won and defended the Cup. On to new challenges. 

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36 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Holy crap! That's a serious development.

Part of me is jubilant that it is a tacit admission that ETNZ are ahead in at least one area.

The other part of me wants to cry at the prospect of Oracle overtaking us yet again by copying our innovation.

Innovation?  No. Been done many times before. Ballsy as hell for trying it again now that hydraulics are in the mix?  Yes. 

 

Equally respectable, and hope it works out for you guys. 

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Dean calls Jimmy "Mate, I thought we had a deal? We don't use the bikes. Now I look bad for disregarding the Kiwi's cycling system"  Jimmy replies "sorry mate, the deals off. You're on your own. Dean hangs up the phone..,"Aussies, no surprises there"

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7 minutes ago, sclarke said:

Dean calls Jimmy "Mate, I thought we had a deal? We don't use the bikes. Now I look bad for disregarding the Kiwi's cycling system"  Jimmy replies "sorry mate, the deals off. You're on your own. Dean hangs up the phone..,"Aussies, no surprises there"

LOL! Yup and here Dean, have a cricket ball!

 

 

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1 hour ago, Monkey said:

I'm a firm believer that you're right in that Larry's ready to move on. A big clue is that Oracle isn't running the biggest team out there, they chose not to build the second boat allowed, and they're playing nice with a lot of the challengers.  Those aren't signs of someone hell bent on carrying on.  He isn't throwing in the towel, but it seems like it isn't the massive effort of past campaigns.

We almost never see him in or around the team, paying for a boat you can't even sail on is just boring, and he can always say he's both won and defended the Cup. On to new challenges. 

It will take a lot to dislodge Larry.  Of course a loss might do it!

We really dunno about the Oracle spend this time but it's bloody obvious that the team's footprint in Bermuda overshadows all other teams. Not really surprising that Larry hasn't taken time to visit his latest far-flung outpost; after all he's got a pretty competent management and sailing team on the job. You can do a lot with hi-res video conferencing these days.

As for "they're playing nice with a lot of the challengers."  Feh! No love fest this. They co-opted all of the Northern hopefuls as part of the Rusty and Larry plot to merchandise the America's Cup.

Finally, ask yourself why Oracle a few weeks ago imported ten more skilled boat builders from Warkworth when they already have a demonstrably quick AC50.  It wasn't because Jimmy S decided the boyzz needed an extended holiday on a tropical island on the other side of the world.

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2 minutes ago, KiwiJoker said:

It will take a lot to dislodge Larry.  Of course a loss might do it!

We really dunno about the Oracle spend this time but it's bloody obvious that the team's footprint in Bermuda overshadows all other teams. Not really surprising that Larry hasn't taken time to visit his latest far-flung outpost; after all he's got a pretty competent management and sailing team on the job. You can do a lot with hi-res video conferencing these days.

As for "they're playing nice with a lot of the challengers."  Feh! No love fest this. They co-opted them as part of the Rusty and Larry plot to merchandise the America's Cup.

Finally, ask yourself why Oracle a few weeks ago imported ten more skilled boat builders from Warkworth when they already have a demonstrably quick AC50.  It wasn't because Jimmy S decided the boyzz needed an extended holiday on a tropical island on the other side of the world.

I never said he'd just roll over and die. I'm just saying he doesn't seem as actively involved, nor blindly throwing money at it like in all his past campaigns. As the only sort of, American boat, I'm an Oracle fan. However, I hope Larry and his wannabe F1 dog and pony show go away, so am hoping New Zealand wins this. 

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10 minutes ago, Monkey said:

I never said he'd just roll over and die. I'm just saying he doesn't seem as actively involved, nor blindly throwing money at it like in all his past campaigns. As the only sort of, American boat, I'm an Oracle fan. However, I hope Larry and his wannabe F1 dog and pony show go away, so am hoping New Zealand wins this. 

What's to misunderstand.  Cup is not in his SF Bay backyard.  He'll show up in Hamilton before the gun goes, just as he did in Auckland. Meanwhile he is financing and enabling whatever it takes and then some to retain the Cup. If that means more focus and less apparent cash-spend that doesn't diminish his interest.

Fact is, the news of cyclor seats on the Defender, while yet another copycat move of ETNZ originality,  is prima facie evidence of commitment at all cost.

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Just got a whole lot more interesting as I knew it would. One pedestal station, and normal grinders combination, a different take obviously? And now a conspiracy theory that Larry doesn't care about the cup anymore? These 2 facts alone could point to NZ being the favourite? Otherwise it's the CUP as per normal. Place your bets.............

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Slingsby posted on his Instagram account 4 days ago a photo of himself and Matt Cassidy in hospital beds. Maybe his back issues are starting to give him grief and going the cycling option takes the pressure off his back from grinding?

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4 minutes ago, Oscar Whitbread said:

Slingsby posted on his Instagram account 4 days ago a photo of himself and Matt Cassidy in hospital beds. Maybe his back issues are starting to give him grief and going the cycling option takes the pressure off his back from grinding?

That's a fair point. Perhaps that explains why only a pedestal for Tom? 

18252733_111016056136952_1877787249731436544_n.jpg

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3 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Doesn't seem like Slingsby is built for cycling... unless this has been in the works for a long time already?

Agreed, Slingby's upper body way too big & there is no room behind Spithill.

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Just now, mattdarnell said:

Agreed, Slingby's upper body way too big & there is no room behind Spithill.

Pics or it didn't happen.

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27 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Slingsby was in a terrible car wreck as a teenager, iirc. May suffer lingering affects still.

Speaking of terrible wrecks, let's hope no scooter-drivin' team members end up on the BDA evening news

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Copy cats? Oracle testing bike grinding station, much like Team New Zealand

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11853015

 

Oracle copying Team New Zealand's bicycle grinding - report

America's Cup defenders Oracle Team USA are understood to have fast-tracked a bicycle grinding system, copying the radical move by Team New Zealand.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-sports/92421027/oracle-reported-to-be-copying-team-new-zealand-bicycle-grinding-move

 

Oracle now on their bike at America's Cup

The America's Cup defender Oracle has copied Team New Zealand and installed a bike grinding station on its boat, just two weeks before competition begins in Bermuda, according to sailing website Sail-World.

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/sport/330477/oracle-now-on-their-bike-at-america's-cup

 

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3 hours ago, jaysper said:

Holy crap! That's a serious development.

Part of me is jubilant that it is a tacit admission that ETNZ are ahead in at least one area.

The other part of me wants to cry at the prospect of Oracle overtaking us yet again by copying our innovation.

Jaysper. You talk to much!.. and most of it is nonsense!.

 

ETNZ did no invent cyclors on boats. In 1977 pelle peterson had foot poered grinders on Sverige!.

 

All ETNZ did is copy the idea and adapt it to today technology.

ETNZ have never invented anything. They have, however, copied many things and made them slow/ protestable/ break !!!

 

Now fuck off  back to school you big turd! ... with respect...   to turds!

 

 

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...oh and if OR do manage to copy ETNZs bikes and win ....    then again ETNZ showed their cards to early!....  

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31 minutes ago, AC DC said:

Jaysper. You talk to much!.. and most of it is nonsense!.

 

ETNZ did no invent cyclors on boats. In 1977 pelle peterson had foot poered grinders on Sverige!.

 

All ETNZ did is copy the idea and adapt it to today technology.

ETNZ have never invented anything. They have, however, copied many things and made them slow/ protestable/ break !!!

 

Now fuck off  back to school you big turd! ... with respect...   to turds!

 

 

Haha introducing the newest alter ego!!

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2 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Slingsby was in a terrible car wreck as a teenager, iirc. May suffer lingering affects still.

I think that was Nathan Outridge

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41 minutes ago, sclarke said:

Haha introducing the newest alter ego!!

Lol! He can't help it, English is his second language. 

Sadly he doesn't have a first.

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1 hour ago, jaysper said:

Lol! He can't help it, English is his second language. 

Sadly he doesn't have a first.

So? No issue with the point i was making then.

 

And english is my third langauge behind Spanish and French.

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8 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Nothing in the vid about it.

I think they are referring to one of their land crew jumping on the bike...that's why the video is actually showing so it makes the most sense!!

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Now we know why Spithill has been so quiet recently - been trying to extricate his feet from his mouth...

"We looked at it hard, as I know all the teams did, and it's a compromise," Oracle skipper Jimmy Spithill.

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If Slingsby is having health issues (preventing him form participating in the sailing/development programme) and OR are looking (or not looking) at bikes then maybe things are not such a bunch of fluffies in OR land

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11 hours ago, See Level said:

Doesn't seem like there's enough space behind Spithill for a cycle grinder.

Forgive me for saying this, but if it was arranged kinda like TNZ then the rear grinders head is going to be hovering over Spithills crotch while sailing...

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2 minutes ago, random said:

I saw the links showing TNZ peddling, but where is the substance behind the OR cycle claims? 

Linky or it's stinky.

There is none. 

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2 hours ago, AC DC said:

There is none. 

No public video but when some of us see it with our own eyes, you munters have to go with it. 

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3 hours ago, darth reapius said:

Forgive me for saying this, but if it was arranged kinda like TNZ then the rear grinders head is going to be hovering over Spithills crotch while sailing...

you're forgiven for the best laugh today!!!

cheers!

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4 hours ago, random said:

Every-time I see the cycles on the boat, I can't help but think that in not many years from now this will look really fucking silly. 

Under the current rules it makes a lot of sense ... but. it looks really silly, to me, now.

 

Yeah. I mean, it makes sense to do it, but it seems unlikely it'll go beyond these boats, so we're always going to look back at it as being a weird little oddity. This combination of rules they've set up - where you need wings and hydraulics and electronics but need humans to power them - seems like a weird middle ground to settle on between the purely manual boats of the past and the less human intensive boats of the future.

Here's a question: would the AC be more interesting if they allowed automatic power generation (instead of grinders/cyclors) but didn't allow all the telemetry and pre-programmed control sequences, etc? So instead of a super smart boat in which humans have to proved the power, it was a fully powered boat in which humans had to provide the smarts?

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From the RG piece,

The new grinding pedestal is located in the same cockpit as helmsman Jimmy Spithill and is located immediately behind the twice America's Cup winning skipper.

Here's a shot of that cockpit from here, it sure looks tight for inserting pedals into.

OR_helm_cockpit_1.thumb.jpg.b369a4edd30631d099ecddc44f0d833e.jpg

In this one you can see (think it's) Kirby behind Spithill with both in the helm cockpit, again pretty tight. Possibly interesting is about if that is a mannequin/dummy sailor sitting in the starboard cockpit. I'd seen that figure (white helmet anyway) in another photo (i forget where) and that figure was in the port hull instead, also at back of the helm cockpit, but seemed to be tucked very low, as if it were a dummy.

OR_helm_cockpit_2.thumb.jpg.c0a6c4e43ba5dbada7b388a25ea4870e.jpg 

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9 minutes ago, jjhplus9 said:

Today??

Doesn't look like the same re-righting as the one from last month:

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Happie Jack said:

Awesome the wing stays watertight enough so as not to destruct like the C Class rigs.

They also have buoyancy at the top, by design rule.

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yes - this afternoon in high teen breeze. Impressive it was too....

All personnel looked to be ok. 

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I have to say OTUSA are getting pretty good at re-righting. Maybe we'll see a rule change, where each competitor has to capsize at least once during a race. They'd win it hands down. ;)

Seriously though, great to see nobody injured and 17 is OK.

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2 hours ago, jawjaw said:

Doesn't look like the same re-righting as the one from last month:

 

 

Asymmetric foils? Using the awesome power of two finger measuring on the screen, the starboard port looks like it is longer than port. But its hard to guage given that it is partially obscured by the hull.

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Did something fail in the foil control system? Maybe insufficient hydro to react at the speeds they're flying? That foil seems to keep going deeper...

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Watch the trimmer - something jams I think and you see him look down to see what's going on .. 

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13 minutes ago, Kiwing said:

^

There also looks like blurring right upto the houses

Do you means that they have  blurred the foil housing in the video?

Given that Jas has taken this video, you would think not.

 

My question is however: What is Oracle doing RIGHT or WRONG that the others aren't that is causing them to capsize twice when the only incident involving the challengers is Benny throwing a tanty at the doc?

 

Are the other teams not pushing hard enough or does Oracle have some design issue?

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13 minutes ago, Barnyb said:

 

The old "flop over rounding the bottom mark trick". Used to do this a fair bit on the old NZ Moth! 

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5 minutes ago, weta27 said:

Watch the trimmer - something jams I think and you see him look down to see what's going on .. 

Foil seems to rake backwards, dragging the hull down.

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Just another flesh wound, Some ribs and trailing edge damage on the flap and probably a bunch of fried electronics.

Looks to me like the problem is easing the wing fast when things start to go wrong.  These boats go fast enough, that when they gybe, they tack.  That is to say they turn away from the true wind and the true wind crosses over the sterns, but the apparent goes across the front.  If they slow during the maneuver, suddenly the apparent wind is aft again and they are over sheeted and as the wing loads, they spin out, round up, and tip over.

Maybe their below deck winch drum is not a good idea.

On the C Cats, we make bloody sure we have the main sheet ready to spool out. Of course if you slow too much and let  the wing cross to violently, you blow the flap off like we did in Geneva in 2015.

SHC

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10 minutes ago, Steve Clark said:

Just another flesh wound, Some ribs and trailing edge damage on the flap and probably a bunch of fried electronics.

Looks to me like the problem is easing the wing fast when things start to go wrong.  These boats go fast enough, that when they gybe, they tack.  That is to say they turn away from the true wind and the true wind crosses over the sterns, but the apparent goes across the front.  If they slow during the maneuver, suddenly the apparent wind is aft again and they are over sheeted and as the wing loads, they spin out, round up, and tip over.

On the C Cats, we make bloody sure we have the main sheet ready to spool out. Of course if you slow too much and lety the wing cross to violently, you blow the flap off like we did in Geneva in 2015.

SHC

Thanks for your thought on this, Steve. It looked remarkably similar the problems we'd encounter rounding a bottom mark in a blow in the old NZ Moths. Same issue - couldn't get the sheet out quick enough. The fist three or four boats would just flop over until the guys behind could figure out what they had to do to stay upright and get around the buoy and onto the beat. Fun times.

Hopefully ETNZ's wing control gives them a bit more leeway. 

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3 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

 

OR_helm_cockpit_1.thumb.jpg.b369a4edd30631d099ecddc44f0d833e.jpg

 

 

Thanks for the still, SR (below deck winch drum)

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21 minutes ago, Steve Clark said:

 

Maybe their below deck winch drum is not a good idea.

Indeed. Now why would they do that? No winch drum visible on AR too

 

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39 minutes ago, Barnyb said:

 

Funny how all the crew on the high side scurry into the hull like rats and hide when it becomes evident she 'aint coming back up!

Not saying I wouldn't do the same mind.

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Wing trying to stop the roll over or caught be change in apparent wind?

5-10 or capsize wing at 9secs.jpg

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Are these guys (OR) going to turn up at another regatta not knowing how to sail their boat?

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19 minutes ago, Xlot said:

Indeed. Now why would they do that? No winch drum visible on AR too

You sure the line in his hand is the same line attached to the wing? Sounds silly but the it wouldn't be the first time a control line was dead-ended to a spring-loaded load sensor, the output line went between a ram and wing with a purchase setup. 

 

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51 minutes ago, jaysper said:

My question is however: What is Oracle doing RIGHT or WRONG that the others aren't that is causing them to capsize twice when the only incident involving the challengers is Benny throwing a tanty at the doc?

 

Are the other teams not pushing hard enough or does Oracle have some design issue?

There have been other incidents- Art dropping the wing; ETNZ shredding her foils; several boats doing wheelies and crash stops (ETNZ being perhaps the most extreme of the challengers). And all the boats have a record of splashdowns and aborted manouevres. Nevertheless I get your point. If you add in ORs near capsize and 2 man overboards they do seem a little prone to issues. That could be them pushing hard, but I'm far from convinced that is the case.

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1 minute ago, enigmatically said:

There have been other incidents- Art dropping the wing; ETNZ shredding her foils; several boats doing wheelies and crash stops (ETNZ being perhaps the most extreme of the challengers). And all the boats have a record of splashdowns and aborted manouevres. Nevertheless I get your point. If you add in ORs near capsize and 2 man overboards they do seem a little prone to issues. That could be them pushing hard, but I'm far from convinced that is the case.

You just love any chance to dig the knife in a little further to ETNZ...what a hard life you must have

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6 minutes ago, Kiwing said:

Also seems to suggest the sheet is not to blame ???

5-10 or capsize wing at 9secs.jpg

Nice find. 

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2 minutes ago, koseyboy said:

You just love any chance to dig the knife in a little further to ETNZ...what a hard life you must have

You think in the context of a discussion about incidents, listing ETNZ's incidents (which are a matter of record) amongst those of others, and agreeing that OR has the biggest problem with incidents, is a dig at ETNZ? Wow, you are sensitive. 

 

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13 minutes ago, Kiwing said:

Also seems to suggest the sheet is not to blame ???

5-10 or capsize wing at 9secs.jpg

I would blame it on that sheet hole in position 5..

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1 minute ago, enigmatically said:

You think in the context of a discussion about incidents, listing ETNZ's incidents (which are a matter of record) amongst those of others, and agreeing that OR has the biggest problem with incidents, is a dig at ETNZ? Wow, you are sensitive. 

 

Yes, I'm a sensitive soul.  ETNZ "sherdding her foils" is of course exactly what happened and was reported right??....

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6 minutes ago, enigmatically said:

You think in the context of a discussion about incidents,

 

 you'll see OTUSA 'primitively' tailing from that hidden winch just back up the page, taking one crews full attention (and ruining the crews aero) - something I was pointing out to you yesterday, but something we 'couldn't know about' according to you...so now is that ahead or behind ETNZ IYO

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