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6 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

AC35 Contenders & Pretenders: Who will win, who won't, and why

Why Groupama could win: They won’t.

Why they won’t win: Because they’re French? 

Ouch. Go Team France ! ;)

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14 minutes ago, aucklander said:

Yep.  Have said the same for a while.  Not sure how they'll get around it but there will be big change coming from OR in some way.  The alternative to boat #2 is they have developed some modular way of moving systems into existing hull. Whatever, there is no possible way they will go into the match with the Heath Robinson approach to cycle grinding that we've seen from them recently. They are simply too good for that.

Nope, short of intentionally destroying their boat which i can't see how they can achieve without serious risk to life.

The "modular approach" you describe is called modifying their boat which is totally within the rules for ALL teams.

C'mon guys, I detest these pricks as much as most but damning them to hell for modifying their boat does seem to be a little disingenuous!

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30 minutes ago, ncs said:

Why Groupama could win: They won’t.

Why they won’t win: Because they’re French? 

Ouch. Go Team France ! ;)

I know, I actually love that team. Funny line from there

--

No offense to America’s first ally, but France’s most memorable AC moment was when the suave and debonaire Baron Marcel Bich took the wheel (white gloves and all) from his under-performing skipper in the 1970 challenger trials off Newport, RI and promptly got lost in the fog.

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1 hour ago, ~Stingray~ said:

 

Wow, check out TE's new sailing site, it actually has a great name too.

 

OTUSA's capsize: Staged for the Today Show cameras?

2017-05-19 | TOM EHMAN

https://www.sailingillustrated.com/single-post/2017/05/19/OTUSAs-capsize-Staged-for-the-Today-Show-cameras

 

So, shut out of AC management, the leopard has changed its spots.  TFE has joined the media pack.  

Not only that but with a show-biz Scoop. 

He evidences some distaste for the NBC/ACEA promotional hi-jinx and I'm inclined to agree with him.

However let's not forget P. T. Barnum's immortal words:  "Every crowd has a silver lining."

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Puhlease. Sailing Illustrated's "informed opinion" is anything but, as summed up by this nonsense. 

"Why SBTJ could win: Only if they make a quantum leap in speed and handling, and then only if extreme bad luck hits everyone else. The only team they will beat is the struggling Groupama Team France."

As an ETNZ supporter I am more concerned with SBTJ then AR after their recent form, and I was already pretty afraid of AR. If anything its wing reliability issues for SBTJ but most certainly not speed/handling. What a bunch of arse SI. 

 

 

Edited by Beast Mode Killa

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51 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

No offense to America’s first ally, but France’s most memorable AC moment was when the suave and debonaire Baron Marcel Bich took the wheel (white gloves and all) from his under-performing skipper in the 1970 challenger trials off Newport, RI and promptly got lost in the fog.

It was the last race of the first ever challenger series in '70. The skipper who Bich kicked of the boat was the veteran Swiss sailor Louis Noverraz who just two years previously had won Olympic Silver in 5.5 metre boats.  It was a memorably foggy summer. France got lost and retired. Her navigator was the up and coming French ocean racer Eric Tabularly.

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4 minutes ago, KiwiJoker said:

It was the last race of the first ever challenger series in '70. The skipper who Bich kicked of the boat was the veteran Swiss sailor Louis Noverraz who just two years previously had won Olympic Silver in 5.5 metre boats.  It was a memorably foggy summer. France got lost and retired. Her navigator was the up and coming French ocean racer Eric Tabularly.

Very good, I would even post that to the site if it has a feedback or forum. Impressed.

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1 hour ago, jaysper said:

Nope, short of intentionally destroying their boat which i can't see how they can achieve without serious risk to life.

The "modular approach" you describe is called modifying their boat which is totally within the rules for ALL teams.

C'mon guys, I detest these pricks as much as most but damning them to hell for modifying their boat does seem to be a little disingenuous!

Trialling boat in 25kt, capsize, chase boats 'unable' to recover, B1 pushed onto reef, left overnight to due saftey concerns, splinters in the morning.  

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16 minutes ago, FinnFish said:

Trialling boat in 25kt, capsize, chase boats 'unable' to recover, B1 pushed onto reef, left overnight to due saftey concerns, splinters in the morning.  

Holy crap! I'd hate to really piss you off. I'd end up with my head cut off and a horse head in its place and the only record of your whereabouts being 1000km away!

That's some serious Agatha Christie shit!

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45 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Very good, I would even post that to the site if it has a feedback or forum. Impressed.

Thanks. Hard won experience plus a bit of trawling through old web sites. mate We watched the Aussies finish in fast-gathering fog to clinch the challenger selection.  Then we fire-walled the throttles of our little 25-footer on a compass course to the entrance of Narragansett Bay.  Radar wasn't common then in small craft. Lotta good skippers had problems.  The media boat with bulk of the yachting press including NY Times, Washpost and Bostglobe got hopelessly lost and almost hit the bricks on the rocky shoreline boundary of the Newport mansions. Bunch of very pissed off news guys missing filing deadlines when they finally reached the dock at 2100 hours.

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Hey, the paparazzi managed some OR this time (click, then right-click > Open image in new tab for larger):

DANKRG7UwAABVGt.jpg

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Just now, weta27 said:

Umm, or is that a T boat??

By looks of the port foil, its a 45 i think.

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It's the T Boat - Cockpit sides are blistered around the crew positions, the central Pod, not a 45.

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5 hours ago, jaysper said:

Holy crap! I'd hate to really piss you off. I'd end up with my head cut off and a horse head in its place and the only record of your whereabouts being 1000km away!

That's some serious Agatha Christie shit!

It is, but it's all about money and power.

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Found this on skuttlebutt tonight

Welcome to the Australia Cup

Published on May 20th, 2017

Three of the teams competing for sailing’s greatest prize have Australian skippers, with plenty more Aussies behind the scenes. As Nick Vindin reports for The Guardian, Australia is set to dominate America’s Cup without even having a team.


Oracle Team USA’s quest for an America’s Cup three-peat in Bermuda nwill begin with Australian Jimmy Spithill at the helm.

Then there’s the Australian who claimed Olympic gold in London and backed it up four years later with a silver medal in Rio. Yet for the duration of the America’s Cup regatta in May and June, Lake Macquarie local Nathan Outteridge will be steering the hopes of the Swedish entry, Artemis Racing.

Meanwhile Team New Zealand has another Australian, Victorian skipper Glenn Ashby. A world champion sailor, Ashby might hail from Bendigo, but is tilting towards trans-Tasman sailing in search of glory.

With Australia failing to mount an America’s Cup challenger for the last three decades and an entrant for the last 17 years a generation of the nation’s finest sailors have long had no alternative other than to be flexible.

“There is no Australian challenger, however there are a lot of Australians in the teams. Ironically out of the six teams – there are three Australian skippers and even more personnel manning the boats on and off the water,” says the Sydney born Spithill, a world champion sailor for Australia and, for Team USA, a two-time America’s Cup conqueror and the youngest ever America’s Cup winning skipper.

“Probably a lot of people think back to 1983 and when Australia II Won. The next memory is Alan Bond going to jail and then followed by that is our boat, One Australia, sinking.”

The oldest sporting trophy in the world, the Auld Mug, is also perhaps the most tightly held. Since the first edition in 1851 only four nations can lay claim to having captured the silverware: the US, Australia, Switzerland and New Zealand.

Australia famously shattered the stranglehold of the USA but since then support for another “boxing kangaroo” styled entrant has dwindled. Since the halcyon days there’s been a dip in public and corporate support for an Australian tilt. That has dented the hopes of homegrown talent.

“The America’s Cup hasn’t been in the spotlight for a long time because Australia hasn’t had a team. This is the pinnacle of sailing. It is the Formula 1 of sailing. We are in the fastest boats of our sport and we are on the cutting edge,” says Tom Slingsby, yet another Aussie and the Oracle Team USA tactician.

A proud Sydney sailing graduate, Slingsby has a yachting pedigree that is the envy of all six of the international teams competing in Bermuda. A Sydney to Hobart victor, a World and Olympic champion and a former America’s Cup winner – the 32-year old dreams of one day being able to race for an entry bearing the flag of his country of birth.

“I would love to compete for Australia in the America’s Cup. If anyone was curious about could we win the Americas Cup, you just have to look through these teams. They are littered with sailors from Australia,” Slingsby says.

With global powerhouse companies such as BMW, Panerai and Airbus investing millions of dollars in sponsorship and engineering expertise to keep the international teams at the forefront, Slingsby fears it might be hard for Australian players to match the corporate outlay. Although he is less worried about the crewing talent who he insists are more than capable of propelling lesser-funded teams to the top.

“We have to get an Australian team somehow, and we are working through trying to find ways to do that. When we do, we will win this thing eventually,” believes Slingsby.

Australia did have a flutter of hope with an entry for this edition of the cup, a team championed by the Hamilton Island Yacht Club. The backers of Sydney to Hobart champion Wild Oats XI submitted a contender before financial pressures forced the syndicate to withdraw their bid in 2014.

By many measures Oracle Team USA will be Australia’s unofficial entrant. Regatta rules stipulate only a quarter of the crew have to hail from the country where the yacht is registered, and of the six crew on board the star spangled banner’s entrant the skipper, tactician and at least one grinder will be from Australia.

One of those likely to take on the powering duties for the foiling wing sailed catamaran is Ky Hurst, a former ironman and Olympic marathon swimmer. A sailing rookie by his own account the transitioning athlete and new father – his daughter Juliette was born less than three weeks out from the regatta – has made a huge impact to the defending champions quest for a third straight Auld Mug.

“I was really nervous to come from an individual sport to a team environment but the team has made the transition comfortable for me from day one,” shares Hurst, “They’ve taught me a lot about sailing, but I’ve taught them a lot about endurance. The boat behind us is a completely different beast. It takes a lot of power and a lot of endurance to get them up and foiling.”

Like his countryman aboard the almighty defender Oracle – nationality comes after winning says Hurst. “We’ve got one goal in mind and that’s to make sure we keep this Cup. There is not an Australian team, I give it a 110% no matter who I am representing. To do everything I can, to get the best out of myself.”

To pretend nationality plays no factor belies the truth. For Australians like Spithill and Slingsby nothing beats defeating the New Zealanders. The Sydney duo did it aboard Oracle in San Francisco four years ago – winning eight straight races to defend their crown. In 2017 it would seem the Australian connections would love to inflict another defeat on one team more than any other.

“I hope we race Team New Zealand in the final again. A lot of people don’t think we should have won the last one. They thought it was a fluke. I am an extremely competitive guy and I want to prove to everyone that we are the better team. So let’s have a rematch,” says Slingsby

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2 minutes ago, maxmini said:

Found this on skuttlebutt tonight

Welcome to the Australia Cup

Published on May 20th, 2017

Three of the teams competing for sailing’s greatest prize have Australian skippers, with plenty more Aussies behind the scenes. As Nick Vindin reports for The Guardian, Australia is set to dominate America’s Cup without even having a team.


Oracle Team USA’s quest for an America’s Cup three-peat in Bermuda nwill begin with Australian Jimmy Spithill at the helm.

Then there’s the Australian who claimed Olympic gold in London and backed it up four years later with a silver medal in Rio. Yet for the duration of the America’s Cup regatta in May and June, Lake Macquarie local Nathan Outteridge will be steering the hopes of the Swedish entry, Artemis Racing.

Meanwhile Team New Zealand has another Australian, Victorian skipper Glenn Ashby. A world champion sailor, Ashby might hail from Bendigo, but is tilting towards trans-Tasman sailing in search of glory.

With Australia failing to mount an America’s Cup challenger for the last three decades and an entrant for the last 17 years a generation of the nation’s finest sailors have long had no alternative other than to be flexible.

“There is no Australian challenger, however there are a lot of Australians in the teams. Ironically out of the six teams – there are three Australian skippers and even more personnel manning the boats on and off the water,” says the Sydney born Spithill, a world champion sailor for Australia and, for Team USA, a two-time America’s Cup conqueror and the youngest ever America’s Cup winning skipper.

“Probably a lot of people think back to 1983 and when Australia II Won. The next memory is Alan Bond going to jail and then followed by that is our boat, One Australia, sinking.”

The oldest sporting trophy in the world, the Auld Mug, is also perhaps the most tightly held. Since the first edition in 1851 only four nations can lay claim to having captured the silverware: the US, Australia, Switzerland and New Zealand.

Australia famously shattered the stranglehold of the USA but since then support for another “boxing kangaroo” styled entrant has dwindled. Since the halcyon days there’s been a dip in public and corporate support for an Australian tilt. That has dented the hopes of homegrown talent.

“The America’s Cup hasn’t been in the spotlight for a long time because Australia hasn’t had a team. This is the pinnacle of sailing. It is the Formula 1 of sailing. We are in the fastest boats of our sport and we are on the cutting edge,” says Tom Slingsby, yet another Aussie and the Oracle Team USA tactician.

A proud Sydney sailing graduate, Slingsby has a yachting pedigree that is the envy of all six of the international teams competing in Bermuda. A Sydney to Hobart victor, a World and Olympic champion and a former America’s Cup winner – the 32-year old dreams of one day being able to race for an entry bearing the flag of his country of birth.

“I would love to compete for Australia in the America’s Cup. If anyone was curious about could we win the Americas Cup, you just have to look through these teams. They are littered with sailors from Australia,” Slingsby says.

With global powerhouse companies such as BMW, Panerai and Airbus investing millions of dollars in sponsorship and engineering expertise to keep the international teams at the forefront, Slingsby fears it might be hard for Australian players to match the corporate outlay. Although he is less worried about the crewing talent who he insists are more than capable of propelling lesser-funded teams to the top.

“We have to get an Australian team somehow, and we are working through trying to find ways to do that. When we do, we will win this thing eventually,” believes Slingsby.

Australia did have a flutter of hope with an entry for this edition of the cup, a team championed by the Hamilton Island Yacht Club. The backers of Sydney to Hobart champion Wild Oats XI submitted a contender before financial pressures forced the syndicate to withdraw their bid in 2014.

By many measures Oracle Team USA will be Australia’s unofficial entrant. Regatta rules stipulate only a quarter of the crew have to hail from the country where the yacht is registered, and of the six crew on board the star spangled banner’s entrant the skipper, tactician and at least one grinder will be from Australia.

One of those likely to take on the powering duties for the foiling wing sailed catamaran is Ky Hurst, a former ironman and Olympic marathon swimmer. A sailing rookie by his own account the transitioning athlete and new father – his daughter Juliette was born less than three weeks out from the regatta – has made a huge impact to the defending champions quest for a third straight Auld Mug.

“I was really nervous to come from an individual sport to a team environment but the team has made the transition comfortable for me from day one,” shares Hurst, “They’ve taught me a lot about sailing, but I’ve taught them a lot about endurance. The boat behind us is a completely different beast. It takes a lot of power and a lot of endurance to get them up and foiling.”

Like his countryman aboard the almighty defender Oracle – nationality comes after winning says Hurst. “We’ve got one goal in mind and that’s to make sure we keep this Cup. There is not an Australian team, I give it a 110% no matter who I am representing. To do everything I can, to get the best out of myself.”

To pretend nationality plays no factor belies the truth. For Australians like Spithill and Slingsby nothing beats defeating the New Zealanders. The Sydney duo did it aboard Oracle in San Francisco four years ago – winning eight straight races to defend their crown. In 2017 it would seem the Australian connections would love to inflict another defeat on one team more than any other.

“I hope we race Team New Zealand in the final again. A lot of people don’t think we should have won the last one. They thought it was a fluke. I am an extremely competitive guy and I want to prove to everyone that we are the better team. So let’s have a rematch,” says Slingsby

Opening the door for a deed of gift match if the Kiwi's win.

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4 minutes ago, sclarke said:

Opening the door for a deed of gift match if the Kiwi's win.

Not possible. ETNZ and Luna Rossa will have a challenge document signed before the last race assuming they win.

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No they wont - as that would leave them open to a legal challenge.

The 2 Commodores watching in a bach in NZ (if it's on live ;)) and signing after the last race makes sense to me :D /mockers

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On 20/05/2017 at 8:19 AM, jaysper said:

 Not crystal ball. Basic fucking observation. 

ETNZ are already publicly dismissing BAR and GTF. You don't think all the teams have enough Intel to put together an accurate pecking order?

Puhleaze! Bollocks to you.

No team has got accurate intel on boat speed and VMG because no team has ended their development stage and raced their " fastestsetups" yet... and no team has their final foil set up ( for each wind range) confirmed.

A visusl look at the boats will not show anything! Especially if their is kit that has not been exposed yet. Also even if they could measure speed ( illegally) what are they measuring? True full on speed, sandbagging, wrong foils,  best rudders, ...

At best they well have abiut a 80% idea of whatbtye teams are doing... if thst

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7 minutes ago, Gissie said:

Hard to fit the whole team under a bus.

I fancy myself a decent sort of driver. I'm willing to give it a go.

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5 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Which article?

The one with the photo of Spithill with a bike. They are getting burned! 

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1 hour ago, sclarke said:

Oracle feel the need to defend themselves! haha hilarious!

 

Hard to believe they'd jerk around with a real bike on their race boat. Or is it...??

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3 hours ago, Indio said:

Hard to believe they'd jerk around with a real bike on their race boat. Or is it...??

Thats actually a Tandem bike, trying to feel whether he could steer via handle bars with control system routed through brake controls, that means Tom gets back peddle braking ...... 

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1 hour ago, AWASP said:

Thats actually a Tandem bike, trying to feel whether he could steer via handle bars with control system routed through brake controls, that means Tom gets back peddle braking ...... 

I suppose OR-Xerox can always change the rules to make it legal to use handle bars instead of the steering wheel

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12 hours ago, jaysper said:

I fancy myself a decent sort of driver. I'm willing to give it a go.

I can get a bus.

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24 minutes ago, Indio said:

I suppose OR-Xerox can always change the rules to make it legal to use handle bars instead of the steering wheel

I seem to recall they already tried that. Didn't work out so good.

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looking slick - & more upgrades have taken place since this was shot apparently

18579946_437362699960140_234099585624257

@ac.com

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Amusing enough, also from there

--

Jimmy Spithill has a cold. But the skipper perks up when the conversation turns to the endless competition at Oracle Team USA between him and design coordinator Scott Ferguson. The rivalry is cutthroat — there is no mercy; no quarter is given. And that’s just after hours. Spithill believes ­competition in just about any form brings out the best in everyone.

For the pugnacious helmsman, a good day is made up of ticking off results on the water that were discussed in theory on land. Then before he heads home, he likes to “go down to the table-tennis table, kick Scott’s ass, and take his money.” When Spithill is asked if he has more compassion for Ferguson, who is older than him and recently became a grandfather, Spithill replies: “To be honest, I feel very comfortable taking Scott’s money. More so than ever.”

http://www.sailingworld.com/sparring-partners

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3 hours ago, nav said:

looking slick - & more upgrades have taken place since this was shot apparently

18579946_437362699960140_234099585624257

@ac.com

17 certainly is looking slippery, fast.

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8 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

17 certainly is looking slippery, fast.

Kinda surprised me to see SBTJ order the same new fairings and get them at the same time, didn't think OR (and/or Core) was still helping at all. They actually look a lot like ETNZ's new ones, at the main beam-to-hull joins.

They did sport a twist grip wheel like OR's but it looks like an earlier-generation of the one JS now has.

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32 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

17 certainly is looking slippery, fast.

Picture by Ricardo Pinto:

3 hours ago, nav said:

looking slick - & more upgrades have taken place since this was shot apparently

18579946_437362699960140_234099585624257

@ac.com

I'd bet AP(allpurpose/allround) foils!

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Just now, Doug Lord said:

Picture by Ricardo Pinto:

I'd bet AP(allpurpose/allround) foils!

Well, the wind was around 14knots, IIRC - so you're probably right, Doug. ;)

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1 minute ago, Doug Lord said:

Picture by Ricardo Pinto:

I'd bet AP(allpurpose/allround) foils!

Honestly Doug, I could show you a picture of one of my dumps in a toilet bowl and you'd see an all purpose foil!

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No, a long UptiP geometry foil like that being used in 14+ knots could probably work (+or -cant) equally as well in 6 or 24 knots of wind. Seems obvious, even highly likely.

AP(allpurpose-allround) foils are rather distinctive.......

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1 minute ago, Doug Lord said:

No, a long UptiP geometry foil like that being used in 14+ knots could probably work (+or -cant) equally as well in 6 or 24 knots of wind. Seems obvious, even highly likely.

AP(allpurpose-allround) foils are rather distinctive.......

No, Doug. I really think one of Jay's bowl dumps would be faster, in 6-12knots of wind. Think about it.

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1 minute ago, Sailbydate said:

No, Doug. I really think one of Jay's bowl dumps would be faster, in 6-12knots of wind. Think about it.

Fluuuuuuuusssssssssh!

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2 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

17 certainly is looking slippery, fast.

I bet Boat 2 looks even better....

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2 hours ago, FinnFish said:

I bet Boat 2 looks even better....

I bet under the rules it looks identical.

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54 minutes ago, BLAK said:

What is Jimmy holding? I cant see it

18670853_1751813861511706_11338352749700

Am I the only one who thinks that big fluffy mic doesn't look like the kind of thing you would pick when you know a decent drenching is coming every 30 seconds or so??

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OR-XEROX squashed by AR again today ... how many times now? Anyone here going to suggest that Oracle are sandbagging? That it's all part of the plan?

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29 minutes ago, weta27 said:

OR-XEROX squashed by AR again today ... how many times now? Anyone here going to suggest that Oracle are sandbagging? That it's all part of the plan?

Be patient and stop jumping the gun. It all starts Friday. Once this is over you'll have all the answers and they won't be what you expected them to be..! 

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27 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

Be patient and stop jumping the gun. It all starts Friday. Once this is over you'll have all the answers and they won't be what you expected them to be..! 

You mean GTF or BAR are the real masters of sandbagging???

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5 minutes ago, Boybland said:

You mean GTF or BAR are the real masters of sandbagging???

and ETNZ seeing as they lost against BAR

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Artemis looked to be giving Softbank a bit of a spanking before they retired. They fair blasted them on the reach leg after the start. Blew straight past on the outside.

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2 hours ago, weta27 said:

OR-XEROX squashed by AR again today ... how many times now? Anyone here going to suggest that Oracle are sandbagging? That it's all part of the plan?

I will. I have no doubt.

The Simpsons produced an instructional video to demonstrate the concept.

 

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3 hours ago, Boybland said:

Am I the only one who thinks that big fluffy mic doesn't look like the kind of thing you would pick when you know a decent drenching is coming every 30 seconds or so??

You should be on the design team. If they cant get that right then they are goooonnnnee.

Mind you!.. with voice activated foil control........

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1 hour ago, MR PLOW 270 said:

and ETNZ seeing as they lost against BAR

I agree, retiring while your ahead while pretending to hit an underwater object that mysteriouly does no damage is certainly a decent form of sandbagging. :D

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9 hours ago, Doug Lord said:

I'm retarded!

FTFY (fixed that for you)

First, that board does not have up-tip geometry, you must be fucking blind to not see that the tip will be pointing down/level when the board is lowered.

Second, every single team has launched with 2 different sets of foils now.

Third, "AP(allpurpose-allround) foils are rather distinctive......." - Yeah, they look like turds, in a porcelain bowl. If you can't fucking design them yourself, then how do you even know what they look like???? Seriously mate "they are rather distinctive", you just fucking say every board is an AP board, and the distinctive part is the fact they're dagger-boards.

Fourth, Oracle have lost their races except against BAR, who have literally lost all their races. Pecking order TNZ > ART > TJ > OR > TF > BAR. So even if it was right mate, they're doing something wrong because they are losing.

Fifth, a week ago Jimmy Spithill said "they were awaiting the imminent arrival of their heavy air boards", as that board looks just like the boards they've been sailing with, then it's their Mid-Low wind range foil, and them not having their Heavy wind foil is the reason they lose in heavy air and are competitive in light air.

Jesus, that really explains a lot.

SO please, shut the fuck up Doug, no team has allaround foils.

Teams all have 2 sets of boards. No backup boards.

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12 minutes ago, darth reapius said:

Pecking order TNZ > ART > TJ > OR > TF > BAR.

i agree with you on the most part but to be honest, this pecking order seems a bit off, to me anyway.

i think that Artemis and TNZ are looking pretty equal, they haven't been in a head to head race where they have both given there all, there is no evidence that TNZ are quicker than Artemis. but that may just be mi bias towards Artemis speaking there.

saying TJ is quicker than OR is silly though. Softbank and oracle are partners, and with oracle being the oldest and better funded, they have given TJ the tech, not vice-versa. oracle are sure to have some stuff that they have not given TJ, and if TJ get into the cup match they won't win for that reason.

 

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3 minutes ago, MR PLOW 270 said:

i agree with you on the most part but to be honest, this pecking order seems a bit off, to me anyway.

i think that Artemis and TNZ are looking pretty equal, they haven't been in a head to head race where they have both given there all, there is no evidence that TNZ are quicker than Artemis. but that may just be mi bias towards Artemis speaking there.

saying TJ is quicker than OR is silly though. Softbank and oracle are partners, and with oracle being the oldest and better funded, they have given TJ the tech, not vice-versa. oracle are sure to have some stuff that they have not given TJ, and if TJ get into the cup match they won't win for that reason.

 

 

Maybe, however Oracle haven't been performing in heavy air, and TJ have been, I would say once Oracle are cranking on all boards (ha-ha) they'll quickly be ahead of TJ by my part. Personally I would have Dean as my skipper over Jimmy.

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3 minutes ago, MR PLOW 270 said:

i agree with you on the most part but to be honest, this pecking order seems a bit off, to me anyway.

i think that Artemis and TNZ are looking pretty equal, they haven't been in a head to head race where they have both given there all, there is no evidence that TNZ are quicker than Artemis. but that may just be mi bias towards Artemis speaking there.

saying TJ is quicker than OR is silly though. Softbank and oracle are partners, and with oracle being the oldest and better funded, they have given TJ the tech, not vice-versa. oracle are sure to have some stuff that they have not given TJ, and if TJ get into the cup match they won't win for that reason.

 

Interesting theory, though wrong. OTUSA have not given SBTJ foils or control systems. They have developed these, themselves.

The bits SBTJ got from OTUSA are pretty much OD, so in that respect they have what all the teams have.

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1 hour ago, justsomeone said:

Technical thought point

Are the benefits of moving TS to peddles behind JS more than power and view?

4 hours ago, Boybland said:

 

Yes for Slingsby's bad back. Pedals far easier on the back and few more Watts..!

 

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1 hour ago, justsomeone said:

Technical thought point

Are the benefits of moving TS to peddles behind JS more than power and view?

Yes back for down wind and forward for upwind!!

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3 minutes ago, Kiwing said:

Yes back for down wind and forward for upwind!!

I was thinking that be a down side, as they are trimming bow down to unload the stabilisers down wind, more weight after increases the AoA needed.

Just trying to get people thinking

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^ I think that is fairly likely.  There is no way the bodged cycle system we saw on the back of the OR boat is going into production....

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12 hours ago, DayTripper said:

They're just doing it to try to take people's attention from the rest of the boat.

If they are using one cyclor to hide things on the boat, just imagine what ETNZ must be hiding! With 4 cyclors distracting people you could probably hide an actual engine!

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12 hours ago, aucklander said:

^ I think that is fairly likely.  There is no way the bodged cycle system we saw on the back of the OR boat is going into production....

In retrospect I think you are right.

The set up just seems so utterly abominable that you have to wonder if its a serious attempt to make the boat go faster, hide other innovations or just a gigantic piss take.

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^ I heard 'giant piss take' from someone who generally knows things - but only the inner circle knows the real answer, and they ain't talkin.

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2 minutes ago, surfsailor said:

^ I heard 'giant piss take' from someone who generally knows things - but only the inner circle knows the real answer, and they ain't talkin.

Must be feeling confident to be playing "giant piss-take ' to joe-public, considering OR-Xerox's reluctance to pretend-race against the cyclors.

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15 hours ago, darth reapius said:

Fourth, Oracle have lost their races except against BAR, who have literally lost all their races. Pecking order TNZ > ART > TJ > OR > TF > BAR. So even if it was right mate, they're doing something wrong because they are losing.

Are you confusing BAR and GTF? It's GTF that haven't really won a race. BAR have beaten them a few times. I think Oracle have also beaten STJ more often than the other way around.

I'd say 

ART >> OR >= STJ >> BAR >> GTF

and NZ fitting in anywhere from slightly ahead of ART (if you believe the results from the last few days) to around where OR/STJ are, but it's hard to say with so much less racing against them all.

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7 hours ago, jaysper said:

In retrospect I think you are right.

The set up just seems so utterly abominable that you have to wonder if its a serious attempt to make the boat go faster, hide other innovations or just a gigantic piss take.

Outside of the one day with MyislsndhomeBDA video of Tom fumbling around to fold out the cyclor pedestal aft of the helmsman position from 7-10 days ago, has anyone seen any video evidence of OTUSA using the cyclor???  I'm watching all the videos closely and have seen zero signs of this being implemented on the race course.  My bet is on them sticking with their current hand grinding configuration and no peddling.

Anyone have recent evidence to the contrary?

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7 hours ago, jawjaw said:

Are you confusing BAR and GTF? It's GTF that haven't really won a race. BAR have beaten them a few times. I think Oracle have also beaten STJ more often than the other way around.

I'd say 

ART >> OR >= STJ >> BAR >> GTF

and NZ fitting in anywhere from slightly ahead of ART (if you believe the results from the last few days) to around where OR/STJ are, but it's hard to say with so much less racing against them all.

Nah, no confusion, that's what I think is the pecking order.

In my opinion GTF have a faster boat than BAR, and have been behind on the quality of sailing/manoeuvres etc, but all around look to be faster, they have greatly improved, and It wouldn't surprise me to see GTF knock BAR off. Remembering here that BAR has done by far the most sailing, yet is performing poorly, GTF has barely sailed, yet is only poor in the manoeuvres. I'd happily throw down a wager for GTF beating BAR.

We also haven't seen OR sailing with their heavy air boards yet, so dunno how they perform. As they've been stomped so far in heavy air races sailing on their light air boards (they've been average in light air).

My dream... Seeing the Kiwi's knock off Oracle 9-0, after beating the French 9-8, after TNZ beat Artemis 9-8, and the French beat The Japs 9-8.

I still think it's TNZ > ART > TJ > OR > TF > BAR, I think in the end though TNZ ART and OR will possibly distance themselves from the other 3. Making it TNZ > ART > OR > The rest. But I guess we'll see in like 2 days ay?!

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9 hours ago, Boybland said:

If they are using one cyclor to hide things on the boat, just imagine what ETNZ must be hiding! With 4 cyclors distracting people you could probably hide an actual engine!

What are they hiding then?...

 

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37 minutes ago, Sailing Anarchy. said:

What are they hiding then?...

 

Speed?

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2 of the best in the business in those two, Ian "Fresh" Burns and Grant Simmer. Both Australians working for an American team. Have sailed with Fresh before and his tech and engineering background attached to sailing is second to none. Grant Simmer has a massive success rate with everything he involves himself in, these 2 guys were massive parts of the comeback last time around. Will take Quantum efforts to beat them....

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9 hours ago, ChetD said:

Outside of the one day with MyislsndhomeBDA video of Tom fumbling around to fold out the cyclor pedestal aft of the helmsman position from 7-10 days ago, has anyone seen any video evidence of OTUSA using the cyclor???  I'm watching all the videos closely and have seen zero signs of this being implemented on the race course.  My bet is on them sticking with their current hand grinding configuration and no peddling.

Anyone have recent evidence to the contrary?

They had Tom on the bike during the last practice races on May 25th. If you watch closely, you can see him behind JS on the downwind legs.

5926e732b0507_orbike3cap2.jpg.1ecda39b0b7bcb8be5074ecc2ec18ad8.jpg

 

Taken @ around 9:40:

 

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21 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

2 of the best in the business in those two, Ian "Fresh" Burns and Grant Simmer. Both Australians working for an American team. Have sailed with Fresh before and his tech and engineering background attached to sailing is second to none. Grant Simmer has a massive success rate with everything he involves himself in, these 2 guys were massive parts of the comeback last time around. Will take Quantum efforts to beat them....

You could make similar comments about allk the teams though.

 

Apart possibly from the non-sailing dedictaed cyclists in the NZ team?

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1 hour ago, terrafirma said:

2 of the best in the business in those two, Ian "Fresh" Burns and Grant Simmer. Both Australians working for an American team. Have sailed with Fresh before and his tech and engineering background attached to sailing is second to none. Grant Simmer has a massive success rate with everything he involves himself in, these 2 guys were massive parts of the comeback last time around. Will take Quantum efforts to beat them....

Now that stepper motors and indexing linear actuators are specifically banned, Team OR-Xerox looks rather ordinary out there. Maybe be they've got some super-duper logic schema buried in their 100,000 lines of code LOL..

 

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Late to the party on the ac stuff..  (yea I know, use search) but i have 2 questions after perusing some of the vids.

1.  No one is wearing gloves??  Are the loads that small??

2.  What the fuck are the hoop things on oracle in some of t