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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

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17 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Pretty hard for JS to engineer a comeback when your sitting on a light wind truck. From venue selection rights, a bottomless pit of money, on and off water talent and being in residence for the time they have had to acclimatise, it is a bit hard to fathom how they have managed to come up with a light wind dog. ART would have wacked OR today.

How could they have gotten it so wrong? They have no excuses. I suspect team synergy is lacking. Lots of chiefs on big money but after this their resumes are going to look bad. They have had every advantage and everyone said the Kiwis were too late? The speed differences are bigger than SF. Standby for 3-0 unless NZ break something..

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Good work by NZ. Would never go against an American team, but I've never considered Oracle to be American. The sooner Coutts/Spithall follow the money out of country the better.

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Remember San Francisco 2013!!!       Go Oracle Team USA!!!!

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6 minutes ago, Doug Lord said:

Remember San Francisco 2013!!!       Go Oracle Team USA!!!!

The boat in 2013 always looked fast, but was being sailed poorly and they had a large scope to improve very quickly. Everything is baked in for these boats. This cup is over.

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Oh ye of little faith........

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6 minutes ago, Doug Lord said:

Remember San Francisco 2013!!!       Go Oracle Team USA!!!!

Don't worry we do! We do you think the motivation and drive that has delivered the ETNZ package this time came from!

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9 minutes ago, Doug Lord said:

Remember San Francisco 2013!!!       Go Oracle Team USA!!!!

They just need some all purpose boards like ETNZ have.......

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8 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

You Kiwi cunts have done a good job fuckin up this OR thread...might just head down the hallway to your door and reciprocate.

Don't call us the best part of your mother! 

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Well sailed again Pistol Pete. Getting on plane Thursday to sort this shit out. I fear the only way to slow down that Kiwi boat is some well placed turtle speed bumps. I'll also be whistling the whole time. Long range forecast pushing 15 knots Friday not sure for weekend.

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Oh this is getting embarrassing. There are now several occasions during each race where the choppers struggle to get both boats in the same shot! Frustration clearly making its presence felt onboard OR : JS slinging his tablet down on the tramp, thumping the hull with his fist...it's getting hot in there! JS finally admits (after yet another pants-down reaming with no lube) that OR's boatspeed (more accurately, complete lack of) is "an issue". So he can tell the truth. 

Expecting OR to use the coming days to make some serious mods...just keep them legal this time eh boys?

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14 minutes ago, Matt17 said:

Oh this is getting embarrassing. There are now several occasions during each race where the choppers struggle to get both boats in the same shot! Frustration clearly making its presence felt onboard OR : JS slinging his tablet down on the tramp, thumping the hull with his fist...it's getting hot in there! JS finally admits (after yet another pants-down reaming with no lube) that OR's boatspeed (more accurately, complete lack of) is "an issue". So he can tell the truth. 

Expecting OR to use the coming days to make some serious mods...just keep them legal this time eh boys?

Also heard Slinsgby snapping "Just use the fucking presets!!":lol:

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2 hours ago, jaysper said:

Good on you hoggie. Regardless of who wins thisplace will be unbearable in a week or two and I will be signing off.

Just think the sooner someone beats orifice the sooner you can have some American teams that actually give a fuck about its supporters. 

 

Yeah, because there's so many other American teams waiting in the wings. Like all those American teams going after the Volvo and winning in the Olympics!

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8 hours ago, AKL wino said:

Great example of how petty OR supporters (more likely the employees) are: all the NZ flags that were put up late Friday night have been removed as of this morning (Sun) in BDA. 10km stretch from South Rd/Middle Rd junction all the way to Dockyard. Even NZ bunting on a team supporter's private road frontage.

Bit sour at getting shafted in the first two races eh? 

like the way the daily dock out show became weekly and now not at all ... too many kiwi flags and cheers Ha !

Even the NZ location has backfired on the "hosts". It's the one base/team/boat EVERYONE can get close to.

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47 minutes ago, nroose said:

Yeah, because there's so many other American teams waiting in the wings. Like all those American teams going after the Volvo and winning in the Olympics!

History is on my side on this one.

Every time the US has lost the cup, the wallets of the elite have opened up to rain money on sailors to "bring it home".

What makes you think this time will be any different?

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Not trolling here: but who else thinks Jimmy will be kicked off the boat? Oracle have shown history here. If Jimmy's not winning starts then what use is he? He's never been known as a silky driver, but his rep in starts has always been a big plus. Both days this weekend he's not taken the opportunity to punish Pete in the box. Shit today ETNZ were dead in the box with both foils down, Jimmy was at 20kts heading straight at them but rather than hook, and take a commanding position he was like a Deer in headlights.

Or is the learning curve for a helm on these boats to high? That poor Artemis bloke that had to take over when Nathan went swimming will not be offered the job. Who is the backup helm?

 

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A slow boat is slow even with the best sailors.

These things are just point and shoot.

Great tech which is what we love about the AC but getting less and less to do with sailing skills.

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13 minutes ago, nzrick said:

Not trolling here: but who else thinks Jimmy will be kicked off the boat? Oracle have shown history here. If Jimmy's not winning starts then what use is he? He's never been known as a silky driver, but his rep in starts has always been a big plus. Both days this weekend he's not taken the opportunity to punish Pete in the box. Shit today ETNZ were dead in the box with both foils down, Jimmy was at 20kts heading straight at them but rather than hook, and take a commanding position he was like a Deer in headlights.

Or is the learning curve for a helm on these boats to high? That poor Artemis bloke that had to take over when Nathan went swimming will not be offered the job. Who is the backup helm?

 

I think he's safe but I guess whoever is helming during this weeks testing and training will tell us soon enough.

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I love how you Yanks think you own this thread "stop fucking our thread up kiwi's"

We have had to listen to you lot lording 2013 over us for four fucken years. 

Harden the fuck up you bunch of pussies!

This is Anarchy! You don't like it. Fuck off. Haha

Ah, that felt soooooooooo good. 

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1 minute ago, zaTTaz said:

I think he's safe but I guess whoever is helming during this weeks testing and training will tell us soon enough.

It' possible that they have the OR-JPN yacht, but do they have a crew of equal ability to their No.1 crew to test against? They can't just employ Barker and his OR-JPN crew as OR-XEROX employees for testing...

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  • MAY DAY, MAY DAY, MAY DAY , team  usa calling Core. Send everyone urgently, MAY DAY,MAY DAY,  MAY DAY. 

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3 minutes ago, Lartitude36S said:

Larry could offer a billion for ETNZ to throw it!

Funnily enough, that's the only realistic use of Larry's $$$ for OR-XEROX, at this late stage.

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LE will want to win it but would pretty easily just let it go since he has way, way bigger things going on in his life.

My hope is that he enables more campaigns even if after a loss but wth knows; he probably hasn't even spent the twenty minutes to consider it yet.

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30 minutes ago, Indio said:

It' possible that they have the OR-JPN yacht, but do they have a crew of equal ability to their No.1 crew to test against? They can't just employ Barker and his OR-JPN crew as OR-XEROX employees for testing...

... put Barker on the helm - that'll do it.

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Just now, TN_Kiwi said:

... put Barker on the helm - that'll do it.

Not allowed..might have to put some of those 12 or 20 boat builders from Warkworth to use sailing OR-JPN.

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3 minutes ago, Indio said:

Not allowed..might have to put some of those 12 or 20 boat builders from Warkworth to use sailing OR-JPN.

and be another kiwi crewed boat....

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2 hours ago, jaysper said:

History is on my side on this one.

Every time the US has lost the cup, the wallets of the elite have opened up to rain money on sailors to "bring it home".

What makes you think this time will be any different?

 

Well, that would be great! Hope you are right! Not sure if any of them will be viewed more favorably than Larry...

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1 hour ago, Rainbow Spirit said:

My heart bleeds for all you OR fans, NOT.

Oracle are collectively cunts, but their fans not so much.

Some of them are but then not all Kiwi fans are spectacular either right?

Aside from that, the amount of obnoxious dick swinging just amazes me when we consider what happened last time.

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7 minutes ago, nroose said:

Well, that would be great! Hope you are right! Not sure if any of them will be viewed more favorably than Larry...

I hope so too.

So, they may (or may not) be better than Larry, but they would have to put some effort in to be worse.

My worst nightmare is Bertarelli making a comeback. The AC only barely survived that prick and to be fair to Larry, he is the one that saved it from him.

Problem is that he then set about doing the same nasty shit.

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16 minutes ago, jaysper said:

I hope so too.

So, they may (or may not) be better than Larry, but they would have to put some effort in to be worse.

My worst nightmare is Bertarelli making a comeback. The AC only barely survived that prick and to be fair to Larry, he is the one that saved it from him.

Problem is that he then set about doing the same nasty shit.

You can't possibly make any good case that LE ever stacked the deck, given ETNZ's almost-win in SF and their domination so far in Bermuda. 

Have said all along that any new Defender would be brave to set the win advantage bar this low -  ACRM's complete independence being a big part of it. In detail, it's an enormous difference to the crap EB and SNG tried to pull.

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2 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

You can't possibly make any good case that LE ever stacked the deck, given ETNZ's almost-win in SF and their domination so far in Bermuda. 

Have said all along that any new Defender would be brave to set the win addvantage bar this low -  ACRM's complete independence being a big part of it. 

Its all the rules changes stinger!

ETNZ overcoming adversity is not proof that the adversity didn't exist.

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1 hour ago, nzrick said:

Not trolling here: but who else thinks Jimmy will be kicked off the boat? Oracle have shown history here. If Jimmy's not winning starts then what use is he? He's never been known as a silky driver, but his rep in starts has always been a big plus. Both days this weekend he's not taken the opportunity to punish Pete in the box. Shit today ETNZ were dead in the box with both foils down, Jimmy was at 20kts heading straight at them but rather than hook, and take a commanding position he was like a Deer in headlights.

Or is the learning curve for a helm on these boats to high? That poor Artemis bloke that had to take over when Nathan went swimming will not be offered the job. Who is the backup helm?

 

Peter Lester hinted at some crew changes, but I think he was talking more about shuffling roles among the same crew.

If they dumped Jimmy, who exactly would they replace him with?

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6 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Its all the rules changes stinger!

ETNZ overcoming adversity is not proof that the adversity didn't exist.

Rule changes as AC cycle events progress are nothing new, this Protocol has had a normal number of them. None have been killers to ETNZ, very obviously.

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5 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Rule changes as AC cycle events progress are nothing new, this Protocol has had a normal number of them. None have been killers to ETNZ, very obviously.

Doesn't make them right though. Cancelling the ACWS in Auckland was clearly nearly a killer though, right?

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1 minute ago, jaysper said:

Doesn't make them right though. Cancelling the ACWS in Auckland was clearly nearly a killer though, right?

A motivator as well

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7 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Peter Lester hinted at some crew changes, but I think he was talking more about shuffling roles among the same crew.

If they dumped Jimmy, who exactly would they replace him with?

My 9yo asked this morning 'why don't they let Nathan steer with his goggles on?'.  LOL.

But seriously, Jimmy is the heart of the crew, and being the skipper is also going to shoulder the brunt of the racing to date.  He is also proved he is the glue to the whole team, so if past form is any indicator, his crew will rally and get tighter over the next 5 days. 

If that doesn't happen, then it is a symptom of a change in the dynamic of the whole team and we won't see a miracle comeback. 

I'm not counting them out yet, but there are no miracles this time and it will be all about how well both teams go about the 5 days break and not trip over at the last hurdle.  Changes might need to be made, but not all changes are good in isolation.

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jimmy should be put on the little bmx cycle grinder for the next race

and encouraged to shout out advice to slingsby on the helm

would make great tv

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9 minutes ago, Rohanoz said:

My 9yo asked this morning 'why don't they let Nathan steer with his goggles on?'.  LOL.

But seriously, Jimmy is the heart of the crew, and being the skipper is also going to shoulder the brunt of the racing to date.  He is also proved he is the glue to the whole team, so if past form is any indicator, his crew will rally and get tighter over the next 5 days. 

If that doesn't happen, then it is a symptom of a change in the dynamic of the whole team and we won't see a miracle comeback. 

I'm not counting them out yet, but there are no miracles this time and it will be all about how well both teams go about the 5 days break and not trip over at the last hurdle.  Changes might need to be made, but not all changes are good in isolation.

I agree about Jimmy, but I do have to say he looks like shit at the moment. Like he hasn't slept in a week.

I don't think there will be a miracle come back this time (I hope fucking not!), because this time at least some of the difference seems down to the boat design whereas last time it was down to superior handling. But, that assumes ETNZ keep advancing which it appears they will do.

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I wonder how much OR is losing with drag from the flailing crew.  Seriously, they look like a fucking rabble facing different directions and wobbling about doing what looks to be a really hard crank.  

After all the tech invested in the aero of the boat fairings, they stand-up and wave elbows about, with Spithill sitting exposed on the rail like this was a 4KSB.  When I look at the different sailing angles I see windage as a significant factor.  WTF were they thinking?  Unable to break out of the box as TNZ has.

edit: the other standout thing is the non-NZ teams putting the tactitian to work grinding.  Fucking sure if I was the helmsman I would want him calm with his head out of the boat.

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30 minutes ago, Lartitude36S said:

A motivator as well

That sounds like the same sort of bullshit I get when people ask me to work for free for 'the exposure'.

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9 minutes ago, random said:

I wonder how much OR is losing with drag from the flailing crew.  Seriously, they look like a fucking rabble facing different directions and wobbling about doing what looks to be a really hard crank.  

After all the tech invested in the aero of the boat fairings, they stand-up and wave elbows about, with Spithill sitting exposed on the rail like this was a 4KSB.  When I look at the different sailing angles I see windage as a significant factor.  WTF were they thinking?  Unable to break out of the box as TNZ has.

Not HUGE, but a piece of an obviously rather nice puzzle.

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10 minutes ago, webdeveloper said:

That sounds like the same sort of bullshit I get when people ask me to work for free for 'the exposure'.

Your obviously charging enough that you don't need exposure...

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10 hours ago, WetHog said:

Anyway, still pulling for ETNZ-AUS but I might have to dust off my ignore list to continue. 

Sailor Girl Nic revealed many on her social media referred to OTAUS.

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13 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

That's a no brainer Sail...your mob in there wouldn't shout if a shark bit you.

Jasus wept!  You couldn't even get straight one of the great Aussie pub insults of all times

it goes like this:  "He wouldn't shout in a shark attack."

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28 minutes ago, random said:

I wonder how much OR is losing with drag from the flailing crew.  Seriously, they look like a fucking rabble facing different directions and wobbling about doing what looks to be a really hard crank.  

After all the tech invested in the aero of the boat fairings, they stand-up and wave elbows about, with Spithill sitting exposed on the rail like this was a 4KSB.  When I look at the different sailing angles I see windage as a significant factor.  WTF were they thinking?  Unable to break out of the box as TNZ has.

edit: the other standout thing is the non-NZ teams putting the tactitian to work grinding.  Fucking sure if I was the helmsman I would want him calm with his head out of the boat.

The elephant in the room is that Jimmy is now an old man in an increasingly young mans game. He has had his day. Langford is not worthy to walk in the shadow of the bloke carrying Glenn Ashby's bags as a wing trimmer and he doesn't have the hydro power or the systems to do it with Gashby's finesse anyway. Whoever is controlling the foils on OR is out of his league in comparison with Blair Tuke and the splashdowns at critical moments are just plain poor at this level. I really do hope OR  find something over the next 5 days to make this thing somewhere near competitive. This is not the same game as the 72s and a comeback of that proportion would seem increasingly unlikely because this is not the same ETNZ either. These guys have the full bag of skills, fire in their bellies and have so far played a masterful AC game, revealing just as much as they need to to proceed and keep their edge. There is a lot more in both tanks and yes, the gap could close over the next five days. I fear for OR, faced with a blinding speed difference that the last 3-4 years couldn't envisage, that the gap could also widen. We live in interesting times.

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8 minutes ago, KiwiJoker said:

Jasus wept!  You couldn't even get straight one of the great Aussie pub insults of all times

it goes like this:  "He wouldn't shout in a shark attack."

The breadth of your knowledge is underwhelming.

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2 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

LE will want to win it but would pretty easily just let it go since he has way, way bigger things going on in his life.

My hope is that he enables more campaigns even if after a loss but wth knows; he probably hasn't even spent the twenty minutes to consider it yet.

I have to admire your persistence in defending LE.  Who knows where he'll end up.   A week or two back Coutts sent up a trial balloon saying he might step down.  It could have won him a face-to-face with the money or an invitation to not let the door hit him in the arse.

One thing is certain.  If the Kiwis prevail there will be changes at Oracle Racing and they won't be tweaks!

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I don't think anymore there is much if any difference in BS ...looking at pre-starts and transitions it seems collectively the 3 guys at the back of ENZ are simply a step above their counterparts. That is something which is pretty hard for OR to do anything about in 5 weeks let alone 5 days.

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I think we will see them sharpen up a bit by the next races, and if the wind is up, it could be more even. 

 I actually think that the Austrailian team has more potential than they've shown so far.

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Even if boat speed is similar, capacity for TNZ to do more maneuvers gives them so many more options. Know who I favour at close quarters dueling.

 

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5 minutes ago, tech said:

I think we will see them sharpen up a bit by the next races, and if the wind is up, it could be more even. 

I think this is another urban myth about ETNZ's performance, this time in higher winds. ETNZ trained in heavy winds in Auckland, and have raced in heavy winds - including the race in which they flipped over.

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20 minutes ago, Indio said:

I think this is another urban myth about ETNZ's performance, this time in higher winds. ETNZ trained in heavy winds in Auckland, and have raced in heavy winds - including the race in which they flipped over.

I agree ETNZ's crew will turn in a winning performance in heavy air.  They have greater control over foils and the wing, after all.

What I wonder about is the Kiwi foils vs Oracle. There's this nagging concern that the Defender might have an edge when it blows, given the computing, tech and construction resources they were able to call on for foil construction.

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3 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

LE will want to win it but would pretty easily just let it go since he has way, way bigger things going on in his life.

We can only hope

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18 minutes ago, KiwiJoker said:

I agree ETNZ's crew will turn in a winning performance in heavy air.  They have greater control over foils and the wing, after all.

What I wonder about is the Kiwi foils vs Oracle. There's this nagging concern that the Defender might have an edge when it blows, given the computing, tech and construction resources they were able to call on for foil construction.

Pretty much hope is all they have left then?? Considering the weather stats say 40% of the time in Bermuda during the summer it's blowing 8-10 knots, they are effectively praying for some stiff breeze to give them any chance...pretty fucked up strategy that one...not sure how LE will take that in the debrief.

"Yeah um look Lazza, we were actually hoping for a bit of extra breeze to take us through the match...as you saw with TJ they were a fucking machine in stiff breeze, but fuck it, it was just blowing too light for us out there and it just didn't suit us at all".

Lazza: "um, so what did our weather modelling tell us about wind speeds at this time of the year guys?"

Cue the sound of crickets chirping in the background.....

Lazza: "fucking idiots!!"

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3 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:
  3 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

LE will want to win it but would pretty easily just let it go since he has way, way bigger things going on in his life.

Yeah cause LE just loves flushing shit loads of money down the drain...go and watch Wind Gods on tubebook to see how competitive this mother fucker is....he'll be hating this shit....LE is all about leaving a dynasty, if they loose and walk away they haven't left anything except for fucked up stadium racing in cool looking boats...which mirrors many different regattas out there already.

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49 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

I don't think anymore there is much if any difference in BS ...looking at pre-starts and transitions it seems collectively the 3 guys at the back of ENZ are simply a step above their counterparts. That is something which is pretty hard for OR to do anything about in 5 weeks let alone 5 days.

I agree but I still think NZ have far better VMG primarily upwind. The numbers don't lie Jack. NZ have the better speed and VMG.  When you win by over a KM in a race that's primarily BS. The $$$ question for me is why have USA been the slower boat at the start of the AC34 and now the AC35? Clearly their design team is not good enough. Burling is far better than Barker for so many reasons and this is a factor that USA cannot overcome. NZ learned from the AC34, made the changes, pushed the development curve harder whereas USA did not. The cup going back to NZ is a good thing however. Certainly from a spectacle point of view this AC final has been "boring" to say the least. The challenger series was fantastic but who wants to see one boat win by over a KM..?

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Just now, MrTroy said:

If it's 6 races to zip this time next week I'd say it's on the cards.

Nope, it's not Jimmys fault they have a slower boat!! Just can't see them dumping him after all he's done in the past.

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Just now, **ONTOIT** said:

Nope, it's not Jimmys fault they have a slower boat!! Just can't see them dumping him after all he's done in the past.

When they're 7-zip down Spithill will pull himself and put Barker on the helm. It would be a great twist.

 

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5 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

I agree but I still think NZ have far better VMG primarily upwind. The numbers don't lie Jack. NZ have the better speed and VMG.  When you win by over a KM in a race that's primarily BS. The $$$ question for me is why have USA been the slower boat at the start of the AC34 and now the AC35? Clearly their design team is not good enough. Burling is far better than Barker for so many reasons and this is a factor that USA cannot overcome. NZ learned from the AC34, made the changes, pushed the development curve harder whereas USA did not. The cup going back to NZ is a good thing however. Certainly from a spectacle point of view this AC final has been "boring" to say the least. The challenger series was fantastic but who wants to see one boat win by over a KM..?

yep agree with above accept last part, love seeing Oracle skippered by Jimmy and the boyz being handed a jolly good rogering by a better Team, boat and crew.

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5 minutes ago, MrTroy said:

When they're 7-zip down Spithill will pull himself and put Barker on the helm. It would be a great twist.

 

Except we'll be spraying each other in champagne as it's first to 7 points wins this fucker!!

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1 hour ago, terrafirma said:

. NZ learned from the AC34, made the changes, pushed the development curve harder whereas USA did not. 

Jobs here for life, because we had the greatest comeback and no one can catch us.

 

Tui's advert

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There will be no changes on the USA boat crew wise in terms of Jimmy and Tom. Jimmy has admitted it's a boat speed issue and everyone knows that. In the AC34 Jimmy was able to get to mark 2 behind and still win with superior upwind speed/vmg, this time they get to mark 2 and watch NZ sail off into the distance. They were the slower boat at the start of the AC34 and now the AC35 so clearly their design team is not as good. This time Burling is on board so there are no comebacks. Jimmy will conceed he was beaten by the faster boat and that way the onus is on the team as a whole. From what I have seen perhaps ETNZ should start designing aeroplanes because they would be superior, faster and more efficient than the Boeing products. ;)

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I do feel for the real USA fans, I remember the sick feeling in my stomach in 2003 watching that debacle unfold, wishing every race that things are going to get better, then the mast breaking, buckets in use and all the rest of the disaster, it just plain sucks. 

At least you have hope with these lay days, and after 2013 there is reason to pray for another comeback. 

At the very least the 5 day break makes next weekends first race all the more interesting.

 

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Quote

you can't possibly make any good case that LE ever stacked the deck

Positives for the first 2 days:

Day1 'we're only 1 point behind' after going 0-2 down.

Day2 'we've got 5 lay days' & 'we beat them in the Challenger series' at 0-4 down.

All advantages caused by deck stacking.

 

 

PPL are complaining about ETNZ fans coming in here & shit-talking but other than that its crickets in here.

If you want some positives the onus is on the OR fans to find & talk about them.

I tried to talk up possible advantages of having a bit more righting moment from Jimmy/Langford stacking hard, situational awareness advantage from having Slingsby on the front beam/out back on the bike but the only response I got was from Nav.

Here's another: Aside from making the bike permanent I think there is a new pod-rear beam fillet fairing

2url3.jpg

 

Fact is last time OR had shown some blazing fast speed in the early races but they had handling/consistency/tactical issues which repeatedly allowed ETNZ to catch-up, overtake &/or sail away.

Over the races those blazing fast bits got longer & more common until ETNZ was left wallowing in the wake.

This time I've seen nothing like it, occasional periods they match ETNZ & some gains that have been clearly shift/pressure related.

My great fear was for Jimmy to nail PB in several of the starts & ETNZ to have been unable to get past with OR sailing well like 2nd OR vs ETNZ Challenger series race.

But now I'm not so sure ETNZ couldn't just sail straight past.

 

Maybe it'll be different in stronger winds?

Maybe the 5 lay days will be enough to turn it around?

As Kenny said 'Hope, its a strategy. But its not a good strategy'.

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7 hours ago, Indio said:

It' possible that they have the OR-JPN yacht, but do they have a crew of equal ability to their No.1 crew to test against? They can't just employ Barker and his OR-JPN crew as OR-XEROX employees for testing...

I'd happily put my money on JS over DB, as much as I like the guy. IMO that particular change wouldn't be on anyones mind at Oracle right now.

Could be wrong, but doubt it.

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Just now, zaTTaz said:

I'd happily put my money on JS over DB, as much as I like the guy. IMO that particular change wouldn't be on anyones mind at Oracle right now.

Could be wrong, but doubt it.

OR-XEROX can't use Barker or Ainslie or Outterridge or Franck anyway.

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2 minutes ago, Indio said:

OR-XEROX can't use Barker or Ainslie or Outterridge or Franck anyway.

Larry?

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Don't forget Glenn and some of the design team at ETNZ came from Oracle. Perhaps the dominance of RC/JS/GS didn't allow the free thinking to flourish

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7 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Nice...you tasteless brain-dead weasel.

You're the one slinging the c bomb about. Just because your team are losing in no way means you need to spout out profanity. 

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33 minutes ago, Barnacle Bill said:

You're the one slinging the c bomb about. Just because your team are losing in no way means you need to spout out profanity. 

Your head really did hit every branch on the way down...not my team.

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5 hours ago, MrTroy said:

When they're 7-zip down Spithill will pull himself

 

About the only fun he's gonna get in this regatta

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2 hours ago, Jono said:

Don't forget Glenn and some of the design team at ETNZ came from Oracle. Perhaps the dominance of RC/JS/GS didn't allow the free thinking to flourish

Could well be a reason. Will be fascinating to see what Larry does? I suspect the team will dissolve and go their separate ways if Larry quits. I wouldn't hire any of them for a lack of foresight. The motivation from within the Kiwi team is different to the Oracle team. The Kiwi team seem to all want to further the cause for love whereas clearly the Oracle team are motivated by money. I bet you none of the key Oracle people are on performance based salaries? The Kiwis don't need to be as they do it for a deep founded passion for their country and fellow team members. 

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13 hours ago, terrafirma said:

How could they have gotten it so wrong? They have no excuses. I suspect team synergy is lacking. Lots of chiefs on big money but after this their resumes are going to look bad. They have had every advantage and everyone said the Kiwis were too late? The speed differences are bigger than SF. Standby for 3-0 unless NZ break something..

I think maybe OTUSA's designers may have gone about asking the wrong blue-sky questions - if indeed they stretched their thinking at all.

I suspect ETNZ started with:

Q: How do we go faster upwind? A: Slipperier boards and dynamic wing control.

Q: What do we need to make this a reality? A: More oil.

Q: How do we get more oil? A: Cyclors

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Just now, Sailbydate said:

I think maybe OTUSA's designers may have gone about asking the wrong blue-sky questions - if indeed they stretched their thinking at all.

I suspect ETNZ started with:

Q: How do we go faster upwind? A: Slipperier boards and dynamic wing control.

Q: What do we need to make this a reality? A: More oil.

Q: How do we get more oil? A: Cyclors

Oracle probably thought they had a fast boat.. and tested it during the round robins so probably were quite happy. Right up until NZ won 4 races in light-medium wind - not light wind, that is 6 knots. 12 seems medium and right on what has often been seen in bermuda.

15 is probably what oracle need as a minimum

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The best place to hide something is in plain sight.

I recall when Aotearoa was first launched ETNZ was at pains to point out that the bikes were not the most significant development on the boat, but just the one everybody could see. That may well have been so, but without the boosted oil from the cyclors, would any of those other innovations (dynamic wing control and slipperier boards) have been possible?

I'm awestruck by the cleverness of ETNZ. I guess you have to be bloody smart to out-fox a fox.

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3 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Deek and Calk....very funny

One can tell by the water in the pond, too thin to plow and too thick to drink, that it's a made in Aus hilarity.

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18 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Q: How do we go faster upwind? A: Slipperier boards

Yes. But slipperier boards are less stable so need to be adjusted more often, so need more oil. Bring on the cyclors.

Remember the concept given by the design team that "Winning the next America's Cup is all about maintaining a stable flight on the entire race course"

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32 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

I think maybe OTUSA's designers may have gone about asking the wrong blue-sky questions - if indeed they stretched their thinking at all.

I suspect ETNZ started with:

Q: How do we go faster upwind? A: Slipperier boards and dynamic wing control.

Q: What do we need to make this a reality? A: More oil.

Q: How do we get more oil? A: Cyclors

Then they got a 22 old girl with a degree in CFD, locked her in a secret room at Auckland Uni, while everybody else wandered about pretending they were going about it all the old fashioned way. :D

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6 minutes ago, Boybland said:

Then they got a 22 old girl with a degree in CFD, locked her in a secret room at Auckland Uni, while everybody else wandered about pretending they were going about it all the old fashioned way. :D

A boy, she really did do a shit-hot job. ;)

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