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15 hours ago, Barnacle Bill said:

Kooking For Coons is a hideous term meaning KFC.

Wow! Never heard of it. You must get around in some classy circles.

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So PredictWind has no good news for OR. Looks like 5-10 sat/sun. If OR manage to win any races on the weekend and keep racing going into the week it only gets lighter and lighter. To the point where there may not be enough wind to start a race until wed/Thursday. 

Wow! Please let this be the case. All hail the mighty weather gods!!!

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1 hour ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Actually, I think foils for the day are the biggest of the factors by far. GS suggests exactly that too, right there. I think tactics (TS?) could also be a lot better but like you say, we'll see.

Remember when you and your elk used to ask "why did they design a tractor that could race in 33knts? didn't they check the summer weather forecast data?

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2 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

Frankly, would Grant know? So far in the Match, it doesn't look like he has any clue at all. The boat speed differential was embarrassing alarming for OTUSA.

In exactly what conditions, upwind or downwind, and port or starboard? 

My guess is that GS has very good answers about exactly where to re-mode, was just posing for some guy's interview.

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1 minute ago, ~Stingray~ said:

In exactly what conditions, upwind or downwind, and port or starboard? 

My guess is that GS has very good answers about exactly where to re-mode.

I hope you're right, Stinger. But not too successfully re-moded of course. ;)

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Probably been said before but I can relate to my company where you are a market leader with tons of profit but you can't design any innovation because you get killed by group think. E.g. A couple of innovators in TNZ have trumped the 30 odd OR Airbus Engineers who totally farked up their wing design as just read the manual. Have seen it in the corporate world and now see it in this corporate sports team. Can't say I am sad though.

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1 minute ago, AC NZL said:

Probably been said before but I can relate to my company where you are a market leader with tons of profit but you can't design any innovation because you get killed by group think. E.g. A couple of innovators in TNZ have trumped the 30 odd OR Airbus Engineers who totally farked up their wing design as just read the manual. Have seen it the corporate world and now see it in this corporate sports team. Can't say I am sad though.

Boat builders build boats.

Airplane engineers build airplanes...

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3 minutes ago, Lartitude36S said:

Boat builders build boats.

Airplane engineers build airplanes...

You don't see many airbus wings with ropes pulling the ailerons, what were they thinking?

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After whatever his name was (De Ridder maybe?) got shitcanned for his probable involvement in Kingpost Gate, and Kyle took over very late in the SF cycle, it was seen by many insiders as a big improvement wing trim-wise.

Maybe they will learn from ETNZ and start to depend a little less on camber and a touch more instead on twist?

It would mirror the Beast Mode change they made last time in some respects.

 

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Watching Oracle's vid on Popular Mechanics it sounds as if they've been refining and refining and refining every aspect of their package in the build-up to the event.

  • They've worked to have the strongest fittest grinders.
  • They've analysed and refined for months even the finest details of their package.

But now they've found that their highly evolved and refined design isn't competitive because a fundamentally different "out of the box" less-refined design has a superior baseline.

That says to me two things:

  1. More fine improvements by Oracle now are going to be affected by the law of diminishing returns. 
  2. ETNZ have more potential for improvement to their package because they aren't as far along the refinement path.

 

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36 minutes ago, KoW said:

Watching Oracle's vid on Popular Mechanics it sounds as if they've been refining and refining and refining every aspect of their package in the build-up to the event.

  • They've worked to have the strongest fittest grinders.
  • They've analysed and refined for months even the finest details of their package.

But now they've found that their highly evolved and refined design isn't competitive because a fundamentally different "out of the box" less-refined design has a superior baseline.

That says to me two things:

  1. More fine improvements by Oracle now are going to be affected by the law of diminishing returns. 
  2. ETNZ have more potential for improvement to their package because they aren't as far along the refinement path.

 

Where they will not necessarily experience dimnishing returns is in boat handling and tactics, which have both been utterly abysmal thus far.

If they fix those, they might be competitive against ETNZ as they lined up last weekend. If however, ETNZ have made another "leap" this week, then Orifice will be SOL (Shit Outta Luck).

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1 minute ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Oracle looked slow today. By our hero:

 

"Looked" slow? I've said all along that how can we possibly tell without all the normal metrics including wind direction, heading, speed?

Aside from that, you wouldn't expect them to be fast when they are completely re-calibrating how they sail the boat.

If we get to Saturday (Rachels time :D ) and they still get the shit kicked out of them, well then we can assume with some degree of certainty that they are fucked.

That said, Sunday is looking like it will be an enforced lay day which may play into their hands, but not a huge amount because they would still need to be out on the water "bobbing around", waiting for the breeze to pick up.

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10 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Oracle looked slow today. By our hero:

 

" I think they're using a different boat here" - myislandhomeBDA

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58 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Oracle looked slow today. By our hero:

They looked flat out sloppy.  Boat speed in a straight-line is prob still ok, but this isn't what you want to be seeing after 4 races of the AC.  I can't really remember the early races in 2013 that well - I know the Kiwis had the superior roll-tack technique - but OR didn't look this bad did they?

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Don't you normally learn how to sail a boat "before" a regatta, not half way through?

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2 minutes ago, Barnyb said:

Don't you normally learn how to sail a boat "before" a regatta, not half way through?

Don't be too smug, it worked for them last time.

Difference is last time they had the better boat, this time we both have the better boat AND are more adept at sailing it.

That said, Orifice WILL be faster on Saturday so ETNZ will have had to advance to maintain their advantage (I am increasingly confident they will have).

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8 minutes ago, ezyb said:

They looked flat out sloppy.  Boat speed in a straight-line is prob still ok, but this isn't what you want to be seeing after 4 races of the AC.  I can't really remember the early races in 2013 that well - I know the Kiwis had the superior roll-tack technique - but OR didn't look this bad did they?

No they didn't, but remember this ISN'T racing. This is them practicing entirely different techniques in preparation for racing.

Will be interesting to see how far they advance in the next three and a half days.

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11 minutes ago, jaysper said:

No they didn't, but remember this ISN'T racing. This is them practicing entirely different techniques in preparation for racing.

Will be interesting to see how far they advance in the next three and a half days.

There could be compromises elsewhere tho.....

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8 minutes ago, Costro said:

Watching today's MIHBDA videos. OR look to have gone backwards. 

 

IMG_2927.PNG

Bloody excellent VMG there, Costro.

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2 hours ago, Costro said:

Watching today's MIHBDA videos. OR look to have gone backwards. 

 

IMG_2927.PNG

I agree, I think what we are seeing is their last-chance, long-shot experiments are proving to provide negative returns... in particular their attempts to turn faster result in stalling

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5 hours ago, KoW said:

Watching Oracle's vid on Popular Mechanics it sounds as if they've been refining and refining and refining every aspect of their package in the build-up to the event.

  • They've worked to have the strongest fittest grinders.
  • They've analysed and refined for months even the finest details of their package.

But now they've found that their highly evolved and refined design isn't competitive because a fundamentally different "out of the box" less-refined design has a superior baseline.

That says to me two things:

  1. More fine improvements by Oracle now are going to be affected by the law of diminishing returns. 
  2. ETNZ have more potential for improvement to their package because they aren't as far along the refinement path.

 

I heard the NZ cylors pedal a huge flywheels & it is the flywheel the pumps the oil.  This means the stored energy is not in the hydraulic system, so does not break any rules.  Maybe this is what Oracle is disputing.

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31 minutes ago, rh2600 said:

I agree, I think what we are seeing is their last-chance, long-shot experiments are proving to provide negative returns... in particular their attempts to turn faster result in stalling

Like anything new it takes time to perfect these tight as turns. The real acid test will be race day.

Is it possible  they will be able to perfect all these things in time and get back in the race? Sure, it's possible. But fucking unlikely. 

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8 hours ago, DayTripper said:

Wow! Never heard of it. You must get around in some classy circles . 

I herd it from a person who worked for their corporate office. I was pretty shocked that the words came out of a seemingly reasonable girl. 

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4 hours ago, Costro said:

Watching today's MIHBDA videos. OR look to have gone backwards. 

 

IMG_2927.PNG

OMG lol :lol:

 

Quote

Oracle looked slow today. By our hero:

I'm presuming just lighter wind.

But lots of displacement mode.

Looks like a pretty animated & not happy discussion between Spithill & Langford/Slingsby (?) at the end of this one

They look to be practicing ETNZ style high leeward hull, veal heel in these vids.

 

Quote

Smooth those out nicely and it becomes a very tight contest.

Lol you're kidding right?

Nearly all of those manoeuvres ETNZ has significantly higher bottom speed & quicker acceleration out of them.

 

Quote

The NZL foils are so long and seem like they would have more drag but smarter people have figured out it works.

Long but thin, fuck knows how they don't have horrendous flutter/flex issues but somehow they pulled it off.

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I know it's still practice but to call those manoeuvres shit would be to sully the good name of shit. Hope they maintain this level of performance. 

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2 hours ago, rh2600 said:

I agree, I think what we are seeing is their last-chance, long-shot experiments are proving to provide negative returns... in particular their attempts to turn faster result in stalling

I think they are finding their limits on what they can do. Most of these particular manouvers go past that limit. You can only assume that they are trying to replicate NZ moves. That is all they can do 

if they loose the next race. I think it's all over. Till then, they have a chance 

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5 minutes ago, jaysper said:

I know it's still practice but to call those manoeuvres shit would be to sully the good name of shit. Hope they maintain this level of performance. 

Amen.  A bag of spanners from OR would be nice. 

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Anyone know what the wind was while oracle were practicing? Maybe even too low for NZ to keep itvup

 I'm just not discounting them yet.

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1 minute ago, 1eyedkiwi said:

Amen.  A bag of spanners from OR would be nice. 

What I don't understand is that they've been seeing these mad as manouvres from etnz for about 4 months now and they JUST NOW decided to have a go????

Wouldn't you think they would have spent a few days months ago just trying them out, if only to confirm your choice of boat handling is best?

Were they so fucking arrogant that they couldn't even consider the possibility that someone else had a better idea than them? Dumb fucks.

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Definitely it seems in the last seconds of the vid what looks to be Spithill cross over to talk to another team member sitting down who had just left the group discussion (possibly TS) and he doesnt want a bar of it and gets up again and walks off......not happy campers

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1 minute ago, starlyte said:

Anyone know what the wind was while oracle were practicing? Maybe even too low for NZ to keep itvup

 I'm just not discounting them yet.

8-9kts

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7 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Were they so fucking arrogant that they couldn't even consider the possibility that someone else had a better idea than them? Dumb fucks.

The popular mechanics video reveals that they believe "no one can beat them" and that their race strategy is to stay between the mark and their opponent - of course that kinda assumes they'll be leading... So yes, "fucking arrogant" is one way to put it.

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It's simply too late to catch up with NZ winning the last race by over a KM..! It's nothing like the AC34 because the NZ boat s so much different than the USA boat. Last time around they were similar boats. Larry should have put them all on performance based contracts. 50% for now 50% when you retain the cup. As soon as they saw the bikes they should have known there was more to it? Jimmy was shooting his mouth off saying he had a mole within the NZ camp that was feeding him information. Well that played out well didn't it? NZ want to win this for price and their country, what do Oracle want to win it for? 

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33 minutes ago, PlainCrazy said:

8-9kts

with that much hull down, i was expecting 6kts.

I think it is too late to go into next weeks racing with copied turns. they have to sail a perfect race with no hulls touching the water. they cant risk a fast turn and drop the hull. they must sail good turns that they know how to do EVERY time

Kiwis, they are hiding their boat. maybe they will be out tomorrow. I think their boat improvements may be straight line speed. you dont need to practice that. if they can keep their turns tight fast and stable, a bit of added straight line speed will not let oracle get near.

I suspect that even if oracle do win a start and get to the first mark, there is nothing stopping ETNZ from catching up and passing - wether oracle cover or not, NZ will get in close and pass no matter what

I would usually say "let oracle split and they will overtake you, never let oracle split" - it is the opposite now

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I know Oracle and ETNZ have for the last 2 cycles had differing wing philosophies. Oracle has stated their 'keep it simple' wing design was a big plus in AC34, whilst ETNZ has for the 2nd cycle developed and used a more twist is best model. 

I can't remember if it was AC35 or AC34 but on these forums there was quite the debate on which was better. Both teams seemed convinced in their own model so maybe not much in it.

Control systems by all accounts are been lauded as a big differentiator between the (five) defenders and the challenger in this cycle. But it's really hard to see how this is applied and how each team are doing it different.

I have watched the onboard 360 starts posted on youtube but had been focused on the bottom of the wing. Genny had suggested in a daily review to actually watch the top of the wing. Doing so really shows a difference in the two philosophies. I simply dragged the camera vertically to top of the wingsail so you can watch the leach.

Oracle

ETNZ

Found it interesting and I assume Oracle are trying to replicate this in MIHBDA latest videos. ETNZ wing looks a lot more natural/fluid whilsts Oracle's is quite mindcraft'ty. Perhaps the kiwi wing system is faster/smoother as well?

Oh and you can see the slack lowers clear as day. Seem both boats are the same here.

Now to watch the daggerboard controls.

 

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On 2017-6-20 at 5:05 PM, minimumfuss said:

Just caught this pic of Rachael outside KFC in Huntly. In her pyjamas. mmmm

2B321BBC00000578-3190169-image-m-62_1439018636363.jpg

Sorry seems you have just had a Rip Van Winkle moment...this is now.

 

images (66).jpg

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They're back out now.  Perfect timing too - the RBYAC just finished and most (if not all) spying eyes are back at the ETNZ base.  LRBAR took the trophy away from ETNZ.

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Oi, back off on Rachel - she's looking bloody amazing for her age. She's a genuine down-to-earth Glenfield girl, no bimbo, and I admire her for what she's achieved. And my builder lives in her old house. So there!.

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6 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Sorry seems you have just had a Rip Van Winkle moment...this is now.

 

images (66).jpg

Lets not forget that she let Rod Stewart impregnate her, twice.

She's been rode hard and put away wet.

WetHog  :ph34r:

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44 minutes ago, ezyb said:

Telling use of quick cut edits :D

And when they want to show OR-XEROX's scorching speed, they just speed up the video :lol:

BUT they do make nice up-beat videos

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47 minutes ago, ezyb said:

Telling use of quick cut edits :D

Lots of slo-mo in there. Which is what the MIH video had too, presumably for 'artistic effect' - and why I wrote they looked 'slow.'

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True, but Jason's video had full tacks rather than cut-edits of them which showed a pretty different picture to the official vid.  Oracle have never been slow in SOG terms, it's just their VMG and angles in-and-out of maneuvers which killed them in those first 4 races.  I'm becoming increasingly convinced this is now 95% a PR effort at this point to drum up some interest for the weekend and hopefully attract a better audience for the final races with the hope of another '13-style comeback.

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16 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Lots of slo-mo in there. Which is what the MIH video had too, presumably for 'artistic effect' - and why I wrote they looked 'slow.'

Slo-mo is probably most representative of Oracle right now.

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5 minutes ago, marlowe said:

Slo-mo is probably most representative of Oracle right now.

maybe black and white footage as well!

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33 minutes ago, ezyb said:

[Snip]    I'm becoming increasingly convinced this is now 95% a PR effort at this point to drum up some interest for the weekend and hopefully attract a better audience for the final races with the hope of another '13-style comeback.

good point!  if  on-the-fence viewers (not the sailing-crazed people who will tune in regardless) thought it is going to be a walk-over this coming weekend, they'll tune into something else, so Wussel's PR crowd has to make it seem ORUSA is still in with a chance.  - a hard sell, but ACalphabet will die trying.

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Not sure about you guys but I take that video as Oracle announcing Slingsby as the new helm. It's clearly a video of Spithill passing on a few final tips. :rolleyes:

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11 minutes ago, nzrick said:

Not sure about you guys but I take that video as Oracle announcing Slingsby as the new helm. It's clearly a video of Spithill passing on a few final tips. :rolleyes:

I went back and watched the video a couple of times and am not sure how you came to that conclusion.  I do believe that OR is so far behind the curve that they need to do something drastic. A helmsman switch is not out of the question.

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7 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Sorry seems you have just had a Rip Van Winkle moment...this is now.

 

images (66).jpg

At 47 she's still hot. 

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4 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Only 47 sail...I have socks older than that.

I'd rather have a date with Rach than your old socks, mate. ;)

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3 hours ago, Monster Mash said:

I went back and watched the video a couple of times and am not sure how you came to that conclusion.  I do believe that OR is so far behind the curve that they need to do something drastic. A helmsman switch is not out of the question.

Well he was driving for half the video

Untitled.png

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3 hours ago, Monster Mash said:

I went back and watched the video a couple of times and am not sure how you came to that conclusion.  I do believe that OR is so far behind the curve that they need to do something drastic. A helmsman switch is not out of the question.

a helmsman switch would be a very drastic change.  It would be a clear signal that they have not found the extra speed they needed to find, and it would also be a huge disruption to any remaining team cohesion. Plus, it would not provide the type of help they need.

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5 minutes ago, TN_Kiwi said:

a helmsman switch would be a very drastic change.  It would be a clear signal that they have not found the extra speed they needed to find, and it would also be a huge disruption to any remaining team cohesion. 

In other words, great news for us!

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22 minutes ago, nzrick said:

Well he was driving for half the video

Untitled.png

 

Where is his Bike seat?

 

Is this even the real 17?

 

 

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5 minutes ago, trig42 said:

 

Where is his Bike seat?

 

Is this even the real 17?

 

 

OR-JPN? B)

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7 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

 

Is some of that in slow-motion or is the rest in FF?

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Looking at that vid, I wonder if they're trialling using both wheels simultaneously in manuevers, one just for foil control (presumably Jimmy) while someone else on the other wheel steers? 

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7 minutes ago, KoW said:

Looking at that vid, I wonder if they're trialling using both wheels simultaneously in manuevers, one just for foil control (presumably Jimmy) while someone else on the other wheel steers? 

that has some logic to it ... I'd be willing to bet that the only foil controls on the boat are on the wheel .... 

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12 minutes ago, zillafreak said:

I think its boat #2 OR-JPN

Highly unlikely as the TV Cams were removed from Japan boat after the semi series had ended and it would not have been a simple process to put them back on that quickly.

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6 minutes ago, Kaihoe said:

Highly unlikely as the TV Cams were removed from Japan boat after the semi series had ended and it would not have been a simple process to put them back on that quickly.

How long would it take to put cams on?

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36 minutes ago, zillafreak said:

I think its boat #2 OR-JPN

look at ~00:14 - the BMX is gone, and there doesn't seem to be room in JS' pod for more than just him.

Edited by TN_Kiwi
error

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1 minute ago, zillafreak said:

How long would it take to put cams on?

2 days at most (Cam mounts, cabling etc, testing) .....but remember the Cams would have been assigned to the Youth Americas Cup after the semi had finished between Swe and SBTJ.

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Maybe they finally realized the attempted mindfuck that was the BMX bike has fallen flat so they've reverted to sailing the boat as originally designed

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Could they be trying out techniques on OR-JPN while the 'A' boat is still in the shed being tinkered with?

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2 minutes ago, DeRosa said:

Could they be trying out techniques on OR-JPN while the 'A' boat is still in the shed being tinkered with?

that sounds spot on 

 

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1 hour ago, TN_Kiwi said:

look at ~00:14 - the BMX is gone, and there doesn't seem to be room in JS' pod for more than just him.

Hahaha!! I think the BMX seat folds away when not used.

No_BMX_seat.thumb.JPG.2d25758d7342b9c14f86b335bc2a6825.JPG

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I wonder if the wing video posted the other day was them Oracle-ifying the Softbank wing?

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HAHaHa Hahybrid begone! Was always a waste of precious time & effort.

 

Quote

there doesn't seem to be room in JS' pod for more than just him.

I thought the same, which is very odd since the cockpit openings are one-design :huh:

 

Still no pedestal fairings

Spithill/Langsford still hiking biatches.

 

Oh hey, nice cockpit interior shot from official site

m4981_crop169015_1280x720_proportional_1

Sheet winch is horizontal, on-axis with the drive shaft from the grinders, kinda neat really.

All that weighty gear for the BMX up back.

Its interesting how little pod top fairing area they have, ETNZ & Art have much bigger & nicely curved, BAR had about same size as ETNZ/Art but a straight-line

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Has anyone else noticed the the Oracle steering wheel is painted in a camouflage pattern and has "PITBULL" printed on the centre of the forward facing side of it? 

IMG_0925.JPG

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11 minutes ago, eastcoastlow said:

Has anyone else noticed the the Oracle steering wheel is painted in a camouflage pattern and has "PITBULL" printed on the centre of the forward facing side of it? 

IMG_0925.JPG

Yeah, that wheel is the fucken *lamest* thing ever eh...

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That's a feature. A story to tell in the future, a story of the little things, that no one could see, that won the cup for OR

A story that now has no relevance 

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1 hour ago, eastcoastlow said:

Has anyone else noticed the the Oracle steering wheel is painted in a camouflage pattern and has "PITBULL" printed on the centre of the forward facing side of it? 

IMG_0925.JPG

The most awful thing in the boat! Why have green camouflage on the sea!!!

But I think Spithill likes it! :-S 

 

 

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Quote

Has anyone else noticed the the Oracle steering wheel is painted in a camouflage pattern and has "PITBULL" printed on the centre of the forward facing side of it? 

I knew it was 'tactical' playing for the redneck guns & trucks crowd but didn't realise they had dumb writing on it too.

 

I wonder if the shore team is busy working on a new one with 'Slingers' instead :lol:

 

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2 hours ago, eastcoastlow said:

Has anyone else noticed the the Oracle steering wheel is painted in a camouflage pattern and has "PITBULL" printed on the centre of the forward facing side of it? 

IMG_0925.JPG

This just screams arrogance and complacency to me. Who made the decision to do that? Surely LE or someone will be asking why they wasted time on the colour of the wheel when they could have been focused on making the boat go faster!

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1 minute ago, 1eyedkiwi said:

This just screams arrogance and complacency to me. Who made the decision to do that? Surely LE or someone will be asking why they wasted time on the colour of the wheel when they could have been focused on making the boat go faster!

Chuurr bro, gona cut the springs and add a loud pipe on Friday...

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1 minute ago, 1eyedkiwi said:

This just screams arrogance and complacency to me. Who made the decision to do that? Surely LE or someone will be asking why they wasted time on the colour of the wheel when they could have been focused on making the boat go faster!

It's pretty obvious that they thought they had it in the bag presumably because they had refined the standard design perfectly. 

But they are faced with a radical design that looks more than likely to bend them over and go right upto the shoulder on them.

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20 minutes ago, 1eyedkiwi said:

This just screams arrogance and complacency to me. Who made the decision to do that? Surely LE or someone will be asking why they wasted time on the colour of the wheel when they could have been focused on making the boat go faster!

Green IS faaaast though. But usually of the lime variety. ;)

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36 minutes ago, Barnacle Bill said:

^ The wheel speaks of the man behind it. A fool. That's all I have to share on the matter. 

A fool? A bit strong there, Bill. Misguided maybe, be he's no fool.

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6 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

A fool? A bit strong there, Bill. Misguided maybe, be he's no fool.

It's the strongest insult I have. 

The act of approving the wheel, which Jimbo no doubt did, was foolish. I see the action as a behavioral issue, an act to satisfy his ego for a time and perhaps an attempt at intimidation on the poor fellows who would fall victim to the efforts applied to it. 

Ergo, misguided. 

FFS. You're right! 

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20 minutes ago, Barnacle Bill said:

It's the strongest insult I have. 

The act of approving the wheel, which Jimbo no doubt did, was foolish. I see the action as a behavioral issue, an act to satisfy his ego for a time and perhaps an attempt at intimidation on the poor fellows who would fall victim to the efforts applied to it. 

Ergo, misguided. 

FFS. You're right! 

Is it really any different to Pete's helmet which has "Pistol" written on it?

Consider this: Maybe Jimmy ordered it so that, when the shit hit the fan come Sunday, he can hide behind his camouflaged wheel! ;)

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1 minute ago, Sailbydate said:

Is it really any different to Pete's helmet which has "Pistol" written on it?

Consider this: Maybe Jimmy ordered it so that, when the shit hit the fan come Sunday, he can hide behind his camouflaged wheel! ;)

 

I try not to look at other blokes helmets. 

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On 6/19/2017 at 1:58 PM, MrTroy said:

When they're 7-zip down Spithill will pull himself and put Barker on the helm. It would be a great twist.

 

When they're 7-zip down the fat lady's sung and everyone's gone home, dude

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