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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
Barnyb

Oracle Team USA

6,772 posts in this topic

24 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

BT was happy to see EB losing the cup and Oracle win it,now he is happy to see Oracle losing and TNZ winning.

Will he be happy to see TNZ lose the cup too ?

Maybe BT is hoping to get relevant again somehow, who knows.

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2 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

The hit-piece yellow-journo 'attack' that RC was confronted with was the recent criticism by Bruno T and RC handled that well enough without getting personal.

Whoever wrote the original article about BT's lines to Radio NZ started it out with 'Respected (whatever, etc)' - about as silly a description as is possible given BT's long-gone importance to anything-AC, him having been cast off many years ago even by LV. To my mind, 'Vulgar' is what that guy epitomizes and yes, I shook his hand, looked him in the eye just out of curiosity, got a strong impression of his ridiculousness.

Good on RC to step back and to let GD try to progress, to try to rise above where the AC event bar has been set.

 

 

"...step back and to let GD try to progress". Oh dear. Stinger, you are really grasping a straws now.

RC had no fucking choice since his team got its arse well and truly whipped. That's what happens in the AC. You lose, you snooze.

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1 hour ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Maybe BT is hoping to get relevant again somehow, who knows.

Could he be playing each new winner ?

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7 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Will he be happy to see TNZ lose the cup too ?

Depends on how RNZYS/ETNZ deal with it obviously.

Pretty sure he was sad when EB won it in 2003.

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8 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

BT was happy to see EB losing the cup and Oracle win it,now he is happy to see Oracle losing and TNZ winning.

Will he be happy to see TNZ lose the cup too ?

Not a friend of BT at all, but anyone with more than two brain cells can certainly understand why.

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3 hours ago, Rennmaus said:

Not a friend of BT at all, but anyone with more than two brain cells can certainly understand why.

Correct. Ernie and Larry shat all over the cup.

Even if you loved the event they put on (2007 was really good ) they screwed the scrum so heavily in their favour as to make the competition absurd.

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14 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

BT was happy to see EB losing the cup and Oracle win it,now he is happy to see Oracle losing and TNZ winning.

Will he be happy to see TNZ lose the cup too ?

It depends on the role RNZYS/ETNZ allow him to have for AC36.  If BT is marginalized like he was with Alinghi and OR then he will be dancing on ETNZ's grave if they lose the Cup just like he did to OR, and Alinghi before them.  

Having said that, what was BT and Louis Vuitton's role back in 2003 for AC31?  Did he run the LVC?  Just trying to figure out what role BT wants with the AC that he didn't get from Alinghi or OR.  What makes Bruno happy?  :rolleyes:

WetHog  :ph34r:

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7 hours ago, Rennmaus said:

Not a friend of BT at all, but anyone with more than two brain cells can certainly understand why.

With one brain cell BT could have figured that both Alinghi et Oracle vision was the same, RC's vision.

But I understand it might difficult to exist in his business without lauding the winner.

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Jeez, spent an enjoyable 4 weeks in Arizona and I come back to find the same losers still whinging...

Beautiful part of the US...if I had to live up there, I'd live in Phoenix or one of the many smaller cities/towns dotted around this vast state. Loved the rugged scenery..

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10 hours ago, Indio said:

Jeez, spent an enjoyable 4 weeks in Arizona and I come back to find the same losers still whinging...

Beautiful part of the US...if I had to live up there, I'd live in Phoenix or one of the many smaller cities/towns dotted around this vast state. Loved the rugged scenery..

Not a lot of yachting going on in Arizona, I suspect. Far too far from the coast for me. Good to see you enjoyed your stay, Indio.

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2 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

Not a lot of yachting going on in Arizona, I suspect. Far too far from the coast for me. Good to see you enjoyed your stay, Indio.

Loved the desert scenery and Grand Canyon...and the golf. My young daughter's dance troupe were competing in the World Championships in Phoenix so I tagged along with my golf clubs and played a few courses while daughter No.1 played chaperone. Did the tourist things rafting down the Colorado river through Horse-Shoe Bend and stayed in a couple of towns as we drove to LV.

 

Beautiful part of the country...

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12 hours ago, Indio said:

Loved the desert scenery and Grand Canyon...and the golf. My young daughter's dance troupe were competing in the World Championships in Phoenix so I tagged along with my golf clubs and played a few courses while daughter No.1 played chaperone. Did the tourist things rafting down the Colorado river through Horse-Shoe Bend and stayed in a couple of towns as we drove to LV.

 

Beautiful part of the country...

We've got a yacht club with monthly regattas and a collegiate sailing team in the middle of the desert! Level of competition isn't that high though. 

Was hoping Oracle would have brought the cup to SD for a quick trip for me, I ended up in Chicago for the WS. Lets hope one of these new US challengers can bring it home. 

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25 minutes ago, Nauti Buoy said:

We've got a yacht club with monthly regattas and a collegiate sailing team in the middle of the desert! Level of competition isn't that high though. 

Was hoping Oracle would have brought the cup to SD for a quick trip for me, I ended up in Chicago for the WS. Lets hope one of these new US challengers can bring it home. 

Nah, ideally we will get LOTS of American challengers that all go home empty handed.

Works best for me ;)

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11 hours ago, Nauti Buoy said:

We've got a yacht club with monthly regattas and a collegiate sailing team in the middle of the desert! Level of competition isn't that high though. 

Was hoping Oracle would have brought the cup to SD for a quick trip for me, I ended up in Chicago for the WS. Lets hope one of these new US challengers can bring it home. 

that would be fun..i hear stingers is mounting a....challenge. or was it a dog

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Spithill: What we learned from Team New Zealand in America's Cup loss

Jimmy Spithill has hinted he will be back when the 2021 America's Cup is contested in Auckland.

The Oracle skipper, who lost the cup to Team New Zealand in Bermuda in June, says in his latest book Chasing the Cup - My America's Cup journey that he'd like to be remembered for getting up off the canvas, not hitting it.

"I've just come off copping one of the biggest hidings of my life, but I ain't no feather duster."

He said Team New Zealand showed they were a champion team by coming back from the disappointment of San Francisco in 2013, when they blew an 8-1 lead to Oracle.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sailing/news/article.cfm?c_id=106&objectid=11913454

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10 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

Spithill: What we learned from Team New Zealand in America's Cup loss

Jimmy Spithill has hinted he will be back when the 2021 America's Cup is contested in Auckland.

The Oracle skipper, who lost the cup to Team New Zealand in Bermuda in June, says in his latest book Chasing the Cup - My America's Cup journey that he'd like to be remembered for getting up off the canvas, not hitting it.

"I've just come off copping one of the biggest hidings of my life, but I ain't no feather duster."

He said Team New Zealand showed they were a champion team by coming back from the disappointment of San Francisco in 2013, when they blew an 8-1 lead to Oracle.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sailing/news/article.cfm?c_id=106&objectid=11913454

Yes, but which syndicate will employ him? 

I say only a poorly resourced one!

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Just now, Barnyb said:

Yes, but which syndicate will employ him? 

I say only a poorly resourced one!

Could he pull together his own Aussie-backed syndicate maybe? Or is he all just mouth and trousers, after all?

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13 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Could he pull together his own Aussie-backed syndicate maybe? Or is he all just mouth and trousers, after all?

he is just not that smart!

Mouth and trousers it is!

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1 hour ago, Sailbydate said:

Could he pull together his own Aussie-backed syndicate maybe? Or is he all just mouth and trousers, after all?

He ran the OR-Xerox AC35 Defence with all the might of Uncle Larry's $$$$ behind him and he still got embarrassed. What do you reckonB)? He needs someone else to take the burden of thinking and decision-making off his shoulders...

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that's pretty cool. would love to check it out in person...

the G-trans is good fun

"Jeanne Willoz-Egnor, the curator of the Mariners' Museum in Newport News / Virginia, was very upset when he received the latest exhibits for his exhibition rooms. These were six wings from the arsenal of the former America's Cup defender Orale Team USA."

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The less we hear from Oracle, the more I think they're warming up their legal team.  On what grounds, who knows, but with these folks nothing would surprise me.

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On 02/09/2017 at 7:01 AM, classfve said:

The less we hear from Oracle, the more I think they're warming up their legal team.  On what grounds, who knows, but with these folks nothing would surprise me.

Rubbish. I hate those cunt too, but this ranks up there with claims that they would intentionally ram our boat.

Orifice do enough to justify our hatred - no need to make shit up.

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What's Ed Baird doing these days?

Pretty handy in a mono I've heard. ;)

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Oracle set to snub next America's Cup - report

Oracle boss Larry Ellison may have had enough of the America's Cup.

Leading US sailing journalist Bob Fisher, writing for Yachts & Yachting, says former Oracle syndicate leader Kiwi Sir Russell Coutts had confirmed Ellison might not be at the next Cup in Auckland in 2021.

In an email to Fisher, Coutts said: "My understanding is that Oracle/Larry will not be entering."

 

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11922550&ref=NZH_fb

 

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32 minutes ago, Barnyb said:

Conner said the strong word he was hearing was that Richard DeVos, a co-founder of Amway and owner of the Orlando Magic NBA team, was set to challenge.

 

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11922550&ref=NZH_fb

Thanks. As I predicted if someone is going to challenge for the USA it would be someone from the DeVos or Ricketts family. They have the big bucks to do so. Looks like I might be right on that one.

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The Kiwi's not only destroyed Oracle, but they ended Oracle as well. Must be a very satisfying feeling knowing you put the final nail in the Oracle Team USA coffin.

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11 minutes ago, sclarke said:

The Kiwi's not only destroyed Oracle, but they ended Oracle as well. Must be a very satisfying feeling knowing you put the final nail in the Oracle Team USA coffin.

They will never return as long as there are Challenger Selection Regattas to qualify for the AC Match - because they stink at it!! They'll be sitting in the shadows looking for another fuck-up by a defender to give them another shot at a DoG match, but they will be waiting for a long time for that to happen again.

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52 minutes ago, sclarke said:

The Kiwi's not only destroyed Oracle, but they ended Oracle as well. Must be a very satisfying feeling knowing you put the final nail in the Oracle Team USA coffin.

I'm sure it is, but being mentioned as possibly the biggest choker in the history of sport won't go away for a long while. ;)

WetHog  :ph34r:

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1 hour ago, sclarke said:

The Kiwi's not only destroyed Oracle, but they ended Oracle as well. Must be a very satisfying feeling knowing you put the final nail in the Oracle Team USA coffin.

Very satisfying indeed, Mr Clarke.

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59 minutes ago, Indio said:

They will never return as long as there are Challenger Selection Regattas to qualify for the AC Match - because they stink at it!! They'll be sitting in the shadows looking for another fuck-up by a defender to give them another shot at a DoG match, but they will be waiting for a long time for that to happen again.

I grant that to Indio. The last time the USA won the AC via a Challenger Selection Series was in 1987. The USA will not win the AC again for the forseeable future no matter what Richard DeVos (if he challenges) spents because they do not have the Sailing Talent right now.

All these Americans who sailed in 2000 and 2003 are now to old.

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27 minutes ago, Alinghi4ever said:

I grant that to Indio. The last time the USA won the AC via a Challenger Selection Series was in 1987. The USA will not win the AC again for the forseeable future no matter what Richard DeVos (if he challenges) spents because they do not have the Sailing Talent right now.

All these Americans who sailed in 2000 and 2003 are now to old.

WTF? 

I guess the most powerful economic Nation on the planet has no chance to put together a valid team.  The talent of sailing men and women in the US must be lower than dog shit.  I hated Oracle, but you Sir, are off your meds.

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3 minutes ago, pluscount said:

WTF? 

I guess the most powerful economic Nation on the planet has no chance to put together a valid team.  The talent of sailing men and women in the US must be lower than dog shit.  I hated Oracle, but you Sir, are off your meds.

 

The USA ain't that powerful economically thanks to GWB and Mr. Trump.

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6 minutes ago, pluscount said:

WTF? 

I guess the most powerful economic Nation on the planet has no chance to put together a valid team.  The talent of sailing men and women in the US must be lower than dog shit.  I hated Oracle, but you Sir, are off your meds.

 

Hurricane Irma must have blown him back in thru the batwing doors because I'm pretty sure I saw his farewell post somewhere else...:lol:

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48 minutes ago, Alinghi4ever said:

The USA ain't that powerful economically thanks to GWB and Mr. Trump.

My bad.  Mud wrestling with pigs.

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2 hours ago, pluscount said:

WTF? 

I guess the most powerful economic Nation on the planet has no chance to put together a valid team.  The talent of sailing men and women in the US must be lower than dog shit.  I hated Oracle, but you Sir, are off your meds.

 

Have you read ANYTHING this turkey has written ?

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5 hours ago, WetHog said:

I'm sure it is, but being mentioned as possibly the biggest choker in the history of sport won't go away for a long while. ;)

WetHog  :ph34r:

Oracle figured out how to sail their boat better during the finals, but sure if you did want to continue with that angle, then I can tell you it "went away" on 26 June 2017! ;-)

AC35 was where we saw the biggest team comeback in AC history, and the biggest team choke in AC history - when despite having all the resources, cards and other fucking challengers in their favour, Oracle still couldn't hold the bottle throughout the scheming, designing, planning, building and actual racing to come even close to the previously wounded friendless lone-wolf.

As Jimmy loves to say, all this makes you stronger and better right? ETNZ fans take AC34 as a badge of honour because it made the AC35 team what is is, that is something fucking awesome! :-)

FWIW I'd actually like Oracle to stick at it, it's like not having Cersei in GoT

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12 hours ago, Barnyb said:

Oracle set to snub next America's Cup - report

Oracle boss Larry Ellison may have had enough of the America's Cup.

Leading US sailing journalist Bob Fisher, writing for Yachts & Yachting, says former Oracle syndicate leader Kiwi Sir Russell Coutts had confirmed Ellison might not be at the next Cup in Auckland in 2021.

In an email to Fisher, Coutts said: "My understanding is that Oracle/Larry will not be entering."

 

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11922550&ref=NZH_fb

 

Not really sure what the problem is. He has owned the cup, that's all he was interested in. it wasn't about the sailiing, it was the ego trip to say he has won the most prestigious and most expensive sailing race in the world.

I always figured that as soon as Larry had lost the cup, he would withdraw anyway.  There he is. Gone.

Next?

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1 minute ago, Kia Ora said:

Not really sure what the problem is. He has owned the cup, that's all he was interested in. it wasn't about the sailiing, it was the ego trip to say he has won the most prestigious and most expensive sailing race in the world.

I always figured that as soon as Larry had lost the cup, he would withdraw anyway.  There he is. Gone.

Next?

Peter Lester: Oracle's exit would be no loss

"If you look at the history of the Cup, I think under the auspices of Larry Ellison, it's probably been the most unfair ever, and I don't think he'll be a big loss to that community," Lester told Radio Sport's Mark Watson.

"What it will probably do is open the door for other Americans to come and challenge, which I think is exciting."

Reports have indicated that Richard DeVos, a co-founder of Amway and owner of the Orlando Magic NBA team, was set to challenge, potentially in association with the New York yacht club.

New York clubs first won the America's Cup in 1851, and held it for 132 years until finally being defeated by Alan Bond's Australia II in 1983.

There is also the possibility that there could be potential challengers from Chicago, or a new challenger from San Francisco if Ellison decides not to compete.

Lester believes that more American teams could be eager to enter without Ellison's involvement.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11922863&ref=NZH_FBpage

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4 minutes ago, Barnyb said:

 

Peter Lester: Oracle's exit would be no loss

"If you look at the history of the Cup, I think under the auspices of Larry Ellison, it's probably been the most unfair ever, and I don't think he'll be a big loss to that community," Lester told Radio Sport's Mark Watson.

"What it will probably do is open the door for other Americans to come and challenge, which I think is exciting."

Reports have indicated that Richard DeVos, a co-founder of Amway and owner of the Orlando Magic NBA team, was set to challenge, potentially in association with the New York yacht club.

New York clubs first won the America's Cup in 1851, and held it for 132 years until finally being defeated by Alan Bond's Australia II in 1983.

There is also the possibility that there could be potential challengers from Chicago, or a new challenger from San Francisco if Ellison decides not to compete.

Lester believes that more American teams could be eager to enter without Ellison's involvement.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11922863&ref=NZH_FBpage

+ quite a few ...

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6 hours ago, Barnyb said:

 

Peter Lester: Oracle's exit would be no loss

"If you look at the history of the Cup, I think under the auspices of Larry Ellison, it's probably been the most unfair ever, and I don't think he'll be a big loss to that community," Lester told Radio Sport's Mark Watson.

"What it will probably do is open the door for other Americans to come and challenge, which I think is exciting."

Reports have indicated that Richard DeVos, a co-founder of Amway and owner of the Orlando Magic NBA team, was set to challenge, potentially in association with the New York yacht club.

New York clubs first won the America's Cup in 1851, and held it for 132 years until finally being defeated by Alan Bond's Australia II in 1983.

There is also the possibility that there could be potential challengers from Chicago, or a new challenger from San Francisco if Ellison decides not to compete.

Lester believes that more American teams could be eager to enter without Ellison's involvement.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11922863&ref=NZH_FBpage

Lester is wrong. There will only be one American Team next time. The Richard DeVos/New York Yacht Club Challenge would probably be the most likely one at this Point. Other Challengers from potential Chicago or San Francisco you can throw into the bin cuz they don't have the money.

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13 hours ago, rh2600 said:

Oracle figured out how to sail their boat better during the finals, but sure if you did want to continue with that angle, then I can tell you it "went away" on 26 June 2017! ;-)

No it didn't.  :rolleyes:

WetHog  :ph34r:

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2 minutes ago, Barnyb said:

Let it go Jimmy! Go grow some pineapples in Queensland or do that SUP stuff at bondi

VWEU3HPJSZBCBNTCJN7Z3SUDX4.jpg

Just because you lose once doesn't mean you aren't good.

Look at Dalton.

Jimmy's a dick but be fair ok?

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I agree; to be fair, jimmy's a dick. got his book out at the right time...now on to SUP.

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JS can write a book about 20 years near and at the top of the AC, not many can!

Am really looking forward to reading his book, still in the fresh Amazon box on my desk in the study, waiting, waiting :)

 

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1 hour ago, ~Stingray~ said:

JS can write a book about 20 years near and at the top of the AC, not many can!

Am really looking forward to reading his book, still in the fresh Amazon box on my desk in the study, waiting, waiting :)

 

I'm guessing the pages with gingers pic on them are gonna get a bit sticky....

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4 minutes ago, ro! said:

I'm guessing the pages with gingers pic on them are gonna get a bit sticky....

Before or after the pinot has kicked in??

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Lets hope Australia get a team together. If Oracle are out then there's a ready made team ready to go.! 

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Everything except the money.

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On 16.9.2017 at 0:12 PM, dogwatch said:

Everything except the money.

If Ben was able to find some sponsors who gave money to his AC 35 Campaign Spithill, Slingsby should be too.

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2 minutes ago, Alinghi4ever said:

If Ben was able to find some sponsors who gave money to his AC 35 Campaign Spithill, Slingsby should be too.

Really?

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1 minute ago, Sailbydate said:

Really?

Why not? Spithill is a 2-Time AC Winner, Slingsby is a 1-Time Winner. Sailors of this high calibre should find some sponsors.

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31 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Really?

And if they can do it, then so can I!

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Going back to the actual Thread Theme here:

Dennis Conner said or he thinks there will be multiple Challengers from the USA for AC 36. He mentioned Richard DeVos/New York Yacht Club and then some possible from the Chicago & San Francisco Area. I think Conner is wrong. I can see potentially the DeVos/NY Yacht Club Challenge happening but not the other two. You need $$$$$$$ and lots of them for a credible Challenge. With Larry out from the Bay Area you almost would need to convince someone from Silicon Valley with big pockets to enter who is interested in sailing. I don't see anyone besides LE having those kinds of big pockets coming from California or more precise San Francisco.

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6 hours ago, Alinghi4ever said:

If Ben was able to find some sponsors who gave money to his AC 35 Campaign Spithill, Slingsby should be too.

Fixed

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4 hours ago, Alinghi4ever said:

Going back to the actual Thread Theme here:

Dennis Conner said or he thinks there will be multiple Challengers from the USA for AC 36. He mentioned Richard DeVos/New York Yacht Club and then some possible from the Chicago & San Francisco Area. I think Conner is wrong. I can see potentially the DeVos/NY Yacht Club Challenge happening but not the other two. You need $$$$$$$ and lots of them for a credible Challenge. With Larry out from the Bay Area you almost would need to convince someone from Silicon Valley with big pockets to enter who is interested in sailing. I don't see anyone besides LE having those kinds of big pockets coming from California or more precise San Francisco.

I have brought up Jim Clark and Comanche many times in response to a number of your comments over the last week or so, but you never acknowledge them.  Why?

I think me, and other American's, will be lucky to have 1 American challenger for AC36 never mind 3.  And Jim Clark should be considered a possible leader of an American challenger as much as DeVos or anyone else rumored.  He has the money and he has a top level sailing program led by Ken Read that is chalk full of American's with America's Cup experience.  Right now Clark is the best chance to field a competitive American challenge right now.  I hope he does it but I won't hold my breath.

WetHog  :ph34r:

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1 hour ago, sclarke said:

Fixed

Better. But still a very long shot.

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6 hours ago, Alinghi4ever said:

Going back to the actual Thread Theme here:

Dennis Conner said or he thinks there will be multiple Challengers from the USA for AC 36. He mentioned Richard DeVos/New York Yacht Club and then some possible from the Chicago & San Francisco Area. I think Conner is wrong. I can see potentially the DeVos/NY Yacht Club Challenge happening but not the other two. You need $$$$$$$ and lots of them for a credible Challenge. With Larry out from the Bay Area you almost would need to convince someone from Silicon Valley with big pockets to enter who is interested in sailing. I don't see anyone besides LE having those kinds of big pockets coming from California or more precise San Francisco.

You need enough $$$ to get a challenge off the ground. More than that, you need the right people in the right places, and you need people who are compatible with each other. Oracle and BAR both had astronomical budgets, and they were both demolished by a team who focused on spending a significantly smaller budget wisely. 

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1 hour ago, Sailbydate said:

Better. But still a very long shot.

Slingsby just doesn't look to have the presence and credibility to open potential sponsors' doors like a Grant Dalton or Paul Cayard, Coutts can probably pry open some doors, but his involvement with OR-Xerox and all the associated shenanigans in AC34 and AC35 might not be helpful.

Betrand, otoh, can do it - whether or not he's motivated enough is another question altogether...

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2 hours ago, Indio said:

Slingsby just doesn't look to have the presence and credibility to open potential sponsors' doors like a Grant Dalton or Paul Cayard, Coutts can probably pry open some doors, but his involvement with OR-Xerox and all the associated shenanigans in AC34 and AC35 might not be helpful.

Betrand, otoh, can do it - whether or not he's motivated enough is another question altogether...

Agree.

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11 hours ago, Alinghi4ever said:

Going back to the actual Thread Theme here:

[snip]

This thread's dead Fred :)

BarnyB can delete it at will.

edit: But where will spinbot live? hope when it's deleted he disappears into the bit bucket as well.

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9 hours ago, sclarke said:

You need enough $$$ to get a challenge off the ground. More than that, you need the right people in the right places, and you need people who are compatible with each other. Oracle and BAR both had astronomical budgets, and they were both demolished by a team who focused on spending a significantly smaller budget wisely. 

You need $$$$ first in this AC Game before you can think about putting the right people into the right place. BAR had other problems my friend. You can't compare them with Oracle or ETNZ for that matter. By the time BAR got the ball rolling 3 of the other 5 Teams (OR, ETNZ, ART,) had fully established Design Teams from AC 34. They had to put a completely new Design Team together and therefore tried something else which didn't work.

Needless to say Kiwis always have the best Sailors & Designers so it wasn't a complete shock that ETNZ at some Point would get the Cup back.

And a Buget of 100m Pounds (BAR) isn't astronomical high IMO.

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10 hours ago, WetHog said:

I have brought up Jim Clark and Comanche many times in response to a number of your comments over the last week or so, but you never acknowledge them.  Why?

I think me, and other American's, will be lucky to have 1 American challenger for AC36 never mind 3.  And Jim Clark should be considered a possible leader of an American challenger as much as DeVos or anyone else rumored.  He has the money and he has a top level sailing program led by Ken Read that is chalk full of American's with America's Cup experience.  Right now Clark is the best chance to field a competitive American challenge right now.  I hope he does it but I won't hold my breath.

WetHog  :ph34r:

I discount Jim Clark/Comanche. You feel better now :D

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On ‎9‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 8:40 PM, sclarke said:

You need enough $$$ to get a challenge off the ground. More than that, you need the right people in the right places, and you need people who are compatible with each other. Oracle and BAR both had astronomical budgets, and they were both demolished by a team who focused on spending a significantly smaller budget wisely. 

This is what is sooo GREAT about new Zealands win. All the American potential challengers as are being hypothesized, New York, LA, SD, Miami, Honolulu, Seattle, SF...

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On 17/09/2017 at 11:40 PM, sclarke said:

Oracle and BAR both had astronomical budgets, and they were both demolished by a team who focused on spending a significantly smaller budget wisely. 

Do you know what their budget was ? including sponsors, government, and P$B?

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34 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Do you know what their budget was ? including sponsors, government, and P$B?

No, but I do know none of the other teams were close (or as close) to shutting down, as the Kiwi's were.

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33 minutes ago, sclarke said:

No, but I do know none of the other teams were close (or as close) to shutting down, as the Kiwi's were.

Although he’s good at his job, Grumpy’s always been a drama queen. I pretty much assume everything he says is greatly imbellished. 

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55 minutes ago, sclarke said:

No, but I do know none of the other teams were close (or as close) to shutting down, as the Kiwi's were.

Well, hard to know without figures, it seems more like a popular belief and high budget has been rumoured.

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54 minutes ago, Monkey said:

Although he’s good at his job, Grumpy’s always been a drama queen. I pretty much assume everything he says is greatly imbellished. 

Agreed. He plays the diva for the public.

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35 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Well, hard to know without figures, it seems more like a popular belief and high budget has been rumoured.

I don't think either is true. 

The fact that they had a single 45 suggests that their budget was smaller than AR and OR, but I doubt it was a particularly small budget either.

Suggestions of the team folding or being unable to pay wages towards the end of the LVC however are just fanciful IMO. 

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Wasn't there a video the other day where a Kiwi definitively said NZ$70m budget (presumably excluding any non-financial help from LR and the ACEA penalty-payment)?

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1 hour ago, jaysper said:

I don't think either is true. 

The fact that they had a single 45 suggests that their budget was smaller than AR and OR, but I doubt it was a particularly small budget either.

Suggestions of the team folding or being unable to pay wages towards the end of the LVC however are just fanciful IMO. 

$ 36 M, coming from taxpayers (from a NZ paper) + sponsors + B$T = no wages paid ? Where did it go ?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff-nation/assignments/is-36m-well-spent-on-the-americas-cup/9157408/Americas-Cup-defintely-worth-price-tag

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3 hours ago, jaysper said:

I don't think either is true. 

The fact that they had a single 45 suggests that their budget was smaller than AR and OR, but I doubt it was a particularly small budget either.

Suggestions of the team folding or being unable to pay wages towards the end of the LVC however are just fanciful IMO. 

There was a story, straight after the Cup finished where the team was forced to sell gear (chase boats and other things) to pay salaries. Grant Dalton also admitted publicly that he almost could not pay salaries at the end of the LVC. Whether you believe him or not is your decision, but I think we can all definitively say, compared to other teams, the ETNZ budget was significantly smaller. And really, that's all that matters. 

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2 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

$ 36 M, coming from taxpayers (from a NZ paper) + sponsors + B$T = no wages paid ? Where did it go ?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff-nation/assignments/is-36m-well-spent-on-the-americas-cup/9157408/Americas-Cup-defintely-worth-price-tag

They DID NOT get 36mill from Government. That was previous cup cycle.

This time it was 5 mill.

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21 minutes ago, sclarke said:

There was a story, straight after the Cup finished where the team was forced to sell gear (chase boats and other things) to pay salaries. Grant Dalton also admitted publicly that he almost could not pay salaries at the end of the LVC. Whether you believe him or not is your decision, but I think we can all definitively say, compared to other teams, the ETNZ budget was significantly smaller. And really, that's all that matters. 

Yes, but do you believe the story? I sure as shit don't. 

Look at the gear they DID sell. It was mostly pretty old.

The big tender was circa 2003 and was probably not worth sending home.

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We all get that ETNZ had a smaller budget than the other big teams, but they spent the equivalent of between US$65-75m depending on how you value what Bertelli gave them in kind and that certainly isn't chump change. I doubt that GTF spent that much aso to say the ETNZ budget was significantly smaller than all the other teams is simply wrong.

If Dalton really did struggle to pay wages, it suggests a level of incompetence in financial planning and also a lack of care towards his staff as they should be his priority. I therefore suspect that as everybody got paid without drama that the story is either typical Dalton BS or didn't even happen, because I believe he can budget and he does look after his staff. 

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1 minute ago, A Class Sailor said:

We all get that ETNZ had a smaller budget than the other big teams, but they spent the equivalent of between US$65-75m depending on how you value what Bertelli gave them in kind and that certainly isn't chump change. I doubt that GTF spent that much aso to say the ETNZ budget was significantly smaller than all the other teams is simply wrong.

If Dalton really did struggle to pay wages, it suggests a level of incompetence in financial planning and also a lack of care towards his staff as they should be his priority. I therefore suspect that as everybody got paid without drama that the story is either typical Dalton BS or didn't even happen, because I believe he can budget and he does look after his staff. 

Gee, i'm sorry, what I should've said was ETNZ had a significantly smaller budget than every other team except France. But really, that showed. France was nothing more than a spoiler, and never had a hope in hell of reaching the semi's, and they didn't. Lets be honest, They were a feel good team, and thats about it. 

 

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Okay, so ETNZ $78 million NZ dollars (47 million Euro) . Artemis $120 million Euro, Ainslie about $100 million pounds (112 million Euro), and Oracle "probably a little bit below those two"

 

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2 hours ago, sclarke said:

There was a story, straight after the Cup finished where the team was forced to sell gear (chase boats and other things) to pay salaries. Grant Dalton also admitted publicly that he almost could not pay salaries at the end of the LVC. Whether you believe him or not is your decision, but I think we can all definitively say, compared to other teams, the ETNZ budget was significantly smaller. And really, that's all that matters. 

Clearly, any team budget over and above what ETNZ spent during AC35 was wasted.

Even LE's money couldn't buy OTUSA out of ideas poverty.

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3 hours ago, sclarke said:

 compared to other teams, the ETNZ budget was significantly smaller. And really, that's all that matters. 

Actually ETNZ had a mid-sized budget. Way more than Groupama, probably more than Softbank.

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9 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

Actually ETNZ had a mid-sized budget. Way more than Groupama, probably more than Softbank.

You mean Softbank/ Oracle? I'll give you the French, but they were only there to make up numbers.

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5 hours ago, sclarke said:

Okay, so ETNZ $78 million NZ dollars (47 million Euro) . Artemis $120 million Euro, Ainslie about $100 million pounds (112 million Euro), and Oracle "probably a little bit below those two"

 

Are you really so naive to think Oracle spent less money trying to defend compared to BAR & Artemis who tried to win it? No way my friend. Oracle spent more money than those two that I am pretty convinced off.

AND the way AC 36 has begun to be structured (Thanks to Mr. P$B) no way in hell will 120 Million Euros be enough to put forward a credible Challenge who can win.

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9 hours ago, Alinghi4ever said:

Are you really so naive to think Oracle spent less money trying to defend compared to BAR & Artemis who tried to win it? No way my friend. Oracle spent more money than those two that I am pretty convinced off.

AND the way AC 36 has begun to be structured (Thanks to Mr. P$B) no way in hell will 120 Million Euros be enough to put forward a credible Challenge who can win.

GD is on record as having said, "Winning the America's Cup will NEVER be cheap".

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52 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Another JS interview, radio, reasonably interesting and enjoyable

http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/mike-hosking-breakfast/audio/jimmy-spithill-it-hit-me-hard-but-ive-learnt-from-it/

"I think people like me more when I lose!"

No, JS. It's when you keep your smart gob shut.

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4 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

No, JS. It's when you keep your smart gob shut.

It was a good laugh, so it was the money quote for me.

What he said about how LE took the loss in Bermuda matches the only, brief reports we saw. Basically, "When you compete among the best you aren't going to win every time."

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A quote from JS

"For the sailors too, what I'm fascinated too is did Dalton and co ask the guys that were on their boat what they think? Did they get a vote, the guys who actually go out there and race?" Spithill said.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-sports/97070759/jimmy-spithill-questions-team-new-zealands-plan-to-return-to-monohulls

He's got a point, based on what everyone even including Burling and Gashby have been quoted saying.

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11 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

A quote from JS

"For the sailors too, what I'm fascinated too is did Dalton and co ask the guys that were on their boat what they think? Did they get a vote, the guys who actually go out there and race?" Spithill said.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-sports/97070759/jimmy-spithill-questions-team-new-zealands-plan-to-return-to-monohulls

He's got a point, based on what everyone even including Burling and Gashby have been quoted saying.

So now he's worried about the Team NZ guys getting a say in things...where was this fascination when Oracle continuously screwed them over for years? Come on Jimmy, you lost. Remember "There is no second". Dalton couldn't care less what Spithill thinks.

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