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1 hour ago, trt131 said:

Slingsby's Aus Challenge is not getting much or any traction with the Australian Billionaires, they are concentrating on winning the Tattersalls Cup which is more important to them.

As they should. The Sydney Hobart is the main event on the Australian sailing calendar. Although the Tattersallls Cup isn't as important for the professionals. Those who compete on anything larger than 80 feet concentrate on line honours. Once the Sydney Hobart is done, thats when the attention will turn to the AC.

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29 minutes ago, sclarke said:

As they should. The Sydney Hobart is the main event on the Australian sailing calendar. Although the Tattersallls Cup isn't as important for the professionals. Those who compete on anything larger than 80 feet concentrate on line honours. Once the Sydney Hobart is done, thats when the attention will turn to the AC.

But the Sydney Hobart wont be done, there is another next year and the year after etc.  Aus wealthy potential boat owners dont see the AC as very important as you do, to them the major event is the annual jaunt to Hobart and all the glory that goes with it.  The Hobart race is more than another yacht race in Australia, its a major tradition much like the Melbourne Cup with all ensuing kudos and hoopla that goes with it.  The AC has long lost its stature in the land of OZ and all the beating of drums by Slingers wont come to much unfortunately.  Bertrand would not get much traction either, too out of touch with where sailing is currently, he currently heads up Australian Swimming.

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11 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

LE and his design team were heavily American. And so even if he does fund Slingsby’s effort under Oracle Australia (a bit like the Toyota NZ) well I hope that he keeps his design team, in a design competition, predominantly American.

Best to stick to just being an LE sycophant and leave commercial sponsorship on the other side of the planet to those who have a clue

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Actually it would be "awesome" if Oracle just crawled away under a rock and stayed there. That would be the best outcome for the event and the sport.

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7 hours ago, dogwatch said:

Actually it would be "awesome" if Oracle just crawled away under a rock and stayed there. That would be the best outcome for the event and the sport.

Yup. And hopefully no return from fuck face Bertarelli.

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7 hours ago, dogwatch said:

Actually it would be "awesome" if Oracle just crawled away under a rock and stayed there. That would be the best outcome for the event and the sport.

Okay, I’ll bite. Why?

To me, it’s mostly a case of ‘the more millions of private money lavished on the event the better.’ It’s also very ‘traditional’ to the Cup’s rich history.

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2 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Okay, I’ll bite. Why?

To me, the more millions of private money lavished on the event, the better.

Yah, I'm with you. The more billionaires pouring money into sailing, the better for sailing. 

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3 minutes ago, 2Newts said:

Yah, I'm with you. The more billionaires pouring money into sailing, the better for sailing. 

The excruciating pain problem the NZ fanboys have for anything Larry must date back to the incredible comeback by Oracle in AC34, is what I figure. That was brutal enough to leave scars!

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Uncle Larry and the pit bull back in the AC  with a huge chip on both shoulders would be interesting.

Throw in Uncles check book and you have a contender .

Time will tell . 

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NY challenge will be uncomfortable since his challenge is really directed at them - the establishment.  From LE's pov their challenge became a fly in a web. A sign he was considering a challenge is many of the team are still training in the gym. Either way he'll be a serious threat and it will an interesting Cup.

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1 hour ago, ~Stingray~ said:

The excruciating pain problem the NZ fanboys have for anything Larry must date back to the incredible comeback by Oracle in AC34, is what I figure. That was brutal enough to leave scars!

Actually, for me at least, it is just that I don't appreciate the fact he took a big steaming dump in the cup and then sold it to the world as caviar.

As for challenging, with his track record when just one of many, why would he waste his money.

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8 minutes ago, Gissie said:

Actually, for me at least, it is just that I don't appreciate the fact he took a big steaming dump in the cup and then sold it to the world as caviar.

As for challenging, with his track record when just one of many, why would he waste his money.

Taking the AC to the fastest AC Class in history ever raced was a dump?? Dang.... Tough crowd!

As for Challenging? Maybe because, like what JS said in that admittedly older and curious interview with Red Bull, for LE it is all about..... The Challenge.

 

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5 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

The excruciating pain problem the NZ fanboys have for anything Larry must date back to the incredible comeback by Oracle in AC34, is what I figure. That was brutal enough to leave scars!

Nope, it's the shitty way he, Jimmy and Wussell behaved.

AC34 was pretty poor but they really exceeded Ernies behaviour in AC35.

The prospect of ETNZ losing the cup doesn't concern me half as much as the likes of Ernie and Lazza winning it and proceeding to shit all over it again.

The truth is that there have only been 3 truly righteous defences since the NYYC lost the cup, being 87, 00 and 03.

 

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6 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

The excruciating pain problem the NZ fanboys have for anything Larry must date back to the incredible comeback by Oracle in AC34, is what I figure. That was brutal enough to leave scars!

So I'm an ETNZ fanboy now? I've been gently prodding at the more hysterical "ETNZ can do no wrong" posters for several months. Actually I am nobody's fanboy and that includes LRBAR.

My causes for compliant as to Oracle include the shrill whine of hypocrisy during AC33, the cheating during AC34 and the "meah, so what" response from team management, followed by the sheer crushing of all the joy out of the event in AC35. I hope LE just fucks off out of sailing & he can take his money with him, he's done nothing to benefit the wider sport inside or outside the USA.

 

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Larry Ellison has been committed to AC for  decades and he is part of its history, so awesome if he stays in there. 

I don't care for the legal stuff, and who's fooling who, that's just part of the colourful AC:- )

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On 10/28/2017 at 10:40 AM, dogwatch said:

So I'm an ETNZ fanboy now? I've been gently prodding at the more hysterical "ETNZ can do no wrong" posters for several months decades. Actually I am nobody's fanboy and that includes LRBAR.

 

 

fixed

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2 hours ago, Barnyb said:

Jimmy story in Redbull mag:

Will you now be one of the hunters?

We will definitely be chasing this America’s Cup .

What is the future of ORACLE Team USA?

Larry [Ellison] wants to wait until the rules and the protocol comes out. But we want to go and get that Cup back.

https://www.redbull.com/nz-en/jimmy-spithill-interview

I wouldn't read much into these sanitised branded soundbites that match with Red Bulls PR strategy and were probably ghost-written by a PA filling out a quick form in an airport lounge and then put under JS's nose to get a nod, just to turn out some written content to go with the hawt photos...

"chasing the cup" is miles away from entering AC36, it's all vague empty doublespeak...

His answer on reflecting on the loss is pure empty nothingness gold... 

JS might be back, and maybe with Red Bull as a sponsor but LE and Oracle are out...

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I wish 11th Hour Racing would run an AC36 Campaign. They already sponsored LRBAR in AC35 and now Vestas in the ‘17 VOR. Google-gazzilions to indulge in, for a further boost of a terrific cause.

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A retraction from Jimmy loose lips:

 

I’d like to correct an inaccurate report in a recent New Zealand publication. I never said Oracle Team USA would try and win back the next America’s Cup. What I did say in an interview with Red Bull was that as someone who doesn’t like losing, I naturally want to get back out on the field of play for another shot. Whether this will be in the next edition or in the future, I don’t know. Right now I’m keeping my options open until all the facts are known.

In reality, I have not... heard from Larry on what his plans may or may not be relating to the future America’s Cup in New Zealand. Presumably Oracle would be waiting to review the AC rules, however I could equally imagine them having other plans.

I've just returned from NZ, after competing in my first Coastal Classic aboard the Orma 60 “Frank Racing”, and glad to say we got the win after a tough battle with the MOD 70 Beau Geste - see vid below. Over 150 boats, awesome breeze and a really fun tactical race.

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^ Thanks, good find. That RB interview was for his book promotion, mostly. As I have remarked, he was far less declarative about Oracle in several radio interviews since then. 

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15 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

^ Thanks, good find. That RB interview was for his book promotion, mostly. As I have remarked, he was far less declarative about Oracle in several radio interviews since then. 

And JS has not even spoken to LE. I thought JS was LE's little golden boy? (or is that term now inappropriate after the Kevin Spacey episode?)

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30 minutes ago, Barnyb said:

And JS has not even spoken to LE. I thought JS was LE's little golden boy? (or is that term now inappropriate after the Kevin Spacey episode?)

I think Jimmy will be a "cup of cold sick" to Lazza after losing "his precious".

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9 hours ago, Barnyb said:

A retraction from Jimmy loose lips:

 

I’d like to correct an inaccurate report in a recent New Zealand publication. I never said Oracle Team USA would try and win back the next America’s Cup. What I did say in an interview with Red Bull was that as someone who doesn’t like losing, I naturally want to get back out on the field of play for another shot. Whether this will be in the next edition or in the future, I don’t know. Right now I’m keeping my options open until all the facts are known.

In reality, I have not... heard from Larry on what his plans may or may not be relating to the future America’s Cup in New Zealand. Presumably Oracle would be waiting to review the AC rules, however I could equally imagine them having other plans.

I've just returned from NZ, after competing in my first Coastal Classic aboard the Orma 60 “Frank Racing”, and glad to say we got the win after a tough battle with the MOD 70 Beau Geste - see vid below. Over 150 boats, awesome breeze and a really fun tactical race.

Looks like Jimminy received a "What-the-fuck-do-you-think-you're-doing!!" phone call from an irate Lazza after one of his flunkies read the interview...

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LE has to set an example to the Corporation employees.  Losing is not tolerated.  Losers are not welcome.  You lose you go bye bye.

 

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16 minutes ago, random said:

LE has to set an example to the Corporation employees.  Losing is not tolerated.  Losers are not welcome.  You lose you go bye bye.

 

plus - you lose, and you talk out of line, means death by bunta!

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Now you can win an ORACLE TEAM USA cap signed by the team, the defenders of the 35th America’s Cup. To participate, follow us on Instagram, like this picture and please tell your friends!
There will be 4 winners and they will be mentioned in this feed and contacted in a Direct Message on Friday the 22nd of December. Good luck!https://www.instagram.com/p/Bc4Z-SJjthr/?taken-by=sailracingofficial

25396253_10155989069863185_5262331254048691918_n.jpg

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On 12/20/2017 at 8:40 AM, Barnyb said:
 
Now you can win an ORACLE TEAM USA cap signed by the team, the defenders of the 35th America’s Cup. To participate, follow us on Instagram, like this picture and please tell your friends!
There will be 4 winners and they will be mentioned in this feed and contacted in a Direct Message on Friday the 22nd of December. Good luck!https://www.instagram.com/p/Bc4Z-SJjthr/?taken-by=sailracingofficial

25396253_10155989069863185_5262331254048691918_n.jpg

Hmmm. Upon which pride of place would one of these sit? On my garage hat peg?

Yeah, nah.

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2 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

Hmmm. Upon which pride of place would one of these sit? On my garage hat peg?

Yeah, nah.

Sail Racing is a joke... Nice if they're a sponsor... overpriced BS if you're anyone else.

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Not dead. Presumably will compete in LE's mooted son-of-ACWS circus/retirement home for former AC wannabes.

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Is there any public info on that/indication its actually going to happen?

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There's been discussion here and I think some links. Not sure which thread. IIRC Artemis was in. Seems Larry wants and what Larry wants he tends to get. Sorry, you will have to do your own search.

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These regattas are mooted every few years but never really gain any traction. LE may have truck loads of money to throw at it, but he threw truckloads of money at the multihull AC series only for it to be thrown out very quickly. Good if you are a skipper looking for an income though.

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at http://www.themercury.com.au/news/tasmania/wild-oats-stripped-of-win-record/news-story/7e81c4e2a814c7eac9e5c3358c24e28b

COMANCHE’S owner Jim Cooney shudders to think what might have happened had America’s Cup star Jimmy Spithill not been at the wheel of his supermaxi when it narrowly missed crashing into Wild Oats XI in this year’s Sydney to Hobart.

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9 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

at http://www.themercury.com.au/news/tasmania/wild-oats-stripped-of-win-record/news-story/7e81c4e2a814c7eac9e5c3358c24e28b

COMANCHE’S owner Jim Cooney shudders to think what might have happened had America’s Cup star Jimmy Spithill not been at the wheel of his supermaxi when it narrowly missed crashing into Wild Oats XI in this year’s Sydney to Hobart.

And what might have happened had Ben been at the wheel of Wild Oast XI ?

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8 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

And what might have happened had Ben been at the wheel of Wild Oast XI ?

You could argue (a few already did in the Hobart forum) that JS was overly aggressive and both hunted and Hollywood’d but to me it looked like JS handled it perfectly - under pretty difficult and fast-changing circumstances with huge consequences had there been an actual collision. 

Ricko pulled the ‘Ben’ in this one.. And got both exploited and exposed by the Pitbull.

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4 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

You could argue (a few already did in the Hobart forum) that JS was overly aggressive and both hunted and Hollywood’d but to me it looked like JS handled it perfectly - under pretty difficult and fast-changing circumstances with huge consequences had there been an actual collision. 

Ricko pulled the ‘Ben’ in this one.. And got both exploited and exposed by the Pitbull.

Rico was in amateur land. BA would have gone behind as that was the way WdOats wanted to go - off to port. Rule 10,  14, 15 and 16. If you're PT and someone on starboard looks like protesting do a 720 asap, that's what you practice until perfect immediate response becomes intuitive. 

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23 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

at http://www.themercury.com.au/news/tasmania/wild-oats-stripped-of-win-record/news-story/7e81c4e2a814c7eac9e5c3358c24e28b

COMANCHE’S owner Jim Cooney shudders to think what might have happened had America’s Cup star Jimmy Spithill not been at the wheel of his supermaxi when it narrowly missed crashing into Wild Oats XI in this year’s Sydney to Hobart.

Oh c'mon, Jim. If I can pilot a 50'er without doing too much damage, avoiding running into the super-skinny arse end of a supermaxi shouldn't be all that difficult. Talk about hyperbole.

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18 hours ago, chesirecat said:

Rico was in amateur land. BA would have gone behind as that was the way WdOats wanted to go - off to port. Rule 10,  14, 15 and 16. If you're PT and someone on starboard looks like protesting do a 720 asap, that's what you practice until perfect immediate response becomes intuitive. 

Yep. This happened to be an AC helm known for his aggression but almost any AC helm you could name would have nailed Rico right there.

My guess is that aboard WOXI after their frustratingly weak start, when they caught Comanche they suffered a case of what GD called (getting back to BA) ‘red mist’ in the moment.

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2 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

Oh c'mon, Jim. If I can pilot a 50'er without doing too much damage, avoiding running into the super-skinny arse end of a supermaxi shouldn't be all that difficult. Talk about hyperbole.

Seriously?  How about when that super skinny ass leaves you just seconds to react?  I’ve never driven a 100 footer, but my gazillion hours behind the wheel doing deliveries on a 68 footer tells me that it didn’t change direction as fast as smaller boats. Funny how physics works...

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Laird Hamilton documentary "Take Every Wave" was finally released in itunes and there is a 5 minute segment on Hamilton's visit with OR in Bermuda back in 2015.  Hamilton and JS talking about how they can help each other in regards to foiling with the primary focus on Hamilton hoping the OR engineers can help him solve a major issue Hamilton has with his foil board, strut vibration at high speed.  Later in the movie Hamilton gets a package from the OR folk with his new strut and they solve his problem.  The movie ends with Hamilton riding a wave for 2:13.  Pretty cool.  The entire documentary is pretty good, and eye opening, if you are a Laird Hamilton fan like me.

http://www.takeeverywave.com/

WetHog  :ph34r:

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13 hours ago, WetHog said:

 if you are a Laird Hamilton fan like me.

 

Not really. He comes over as a horse's arse in this. Criticising an amazing achievement  when he wasn't even there.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

Not really. He comes over as a horse's arse in this. Criticising an amazing achievement  when he wasn't even there.

He might not have been there, but he is correct. You cannot claim to have ridden a wave you wipe out on. You would then get into all sorts of a debate about how much you need to ride to call it "ridden".

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6 hours ago, A Class Sailor said:

He might not have been there, but he is correct. You cannot claim to have ridden a wave you wipe out on. You would then get into all sorts of a debate about how much you need to ride to call it "ridden".

Agree. But his analogy with a cube is the worst you could pick because once you know the dimension of one side, you know every parameter about the cube unlike a wave height (which is very difficult to measure).

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For clarity, I agree that Hamilton was being an arse, even if he was making a valid point about what is riding a wave. What i now realise wasn't acceptable was his comment about Maya Gabiera, which made him an even bigger arse.

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Laird is cut from the same douche-bro cloth as JS so its no surprise that @wethog is a fan of both...

Laird's attitude towards Maya echoes that of JS's towards ETNZ in the early days of AC35... no business being here / not event talking on the boat / out of their depth etc etc

Their attitudes are totally counter to those that I respect in sport...hell... in life...

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^ I've known Laird since the early 90s. For sure he lacks a filter and perhaps says things he shouldn't - 'PC' is an utterly alien concept to him - but he is also a very intelligent guy with a deep understanding developed via direct experience and keen analytical skills. To paraphrase Jaco Pastorius (the greatest bass player of all time), it ain't bragging when you can back it up, and Laird can do so on every level to a degree that is unimaginable to mere mortals. 

I would say the same holds true for JS - I've only met him a few times, but there is no question that he is the real deal.

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On 30/10/2017 at 3:53 PM, rh2600 said:

I wouldn't read much into these sanitised branded soundbites that match with Red Bulls PR strategy and were probably ghost-written by a PA filling out a quick form in an airport lounge and then put under JS's nose to get a nod, just to turn out some written content to go with the hawt photos...

"chasing the cup" is miles away from entering AC36, it's all vague empty doublespeak...

His answer on reflecting on the loss is pure empty nothingness gold... 

JS might be back, and maybe with Red Bull as a sponsor but LE and Oracle are out...

+1

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1 hour ago, surfsailor said:

^ I've known Laird since the early 90s. For sure he lacks a filter and perhaps says things he shouldn't - 'PC' is an utterly alien concept to him - but he is also a very intelligent guy with a deep understanding developed via direct experience and keen analytical skills. To paraphrase Jaco Pastorius (the greatest bass player of all time), it ain't bragging when you can back it up, and Laird can do so on every level to a degree that is unimaginable to mere mortals. 

I would say the same holds true for JS - I've only met him a few times, but there is no question that he is the real deal.

Being intelligent, driven or successful doesn't make you immune from being an arsehole. Neither of these examples are bragging per-se, but they also can't be "backed up" by the people who said them. Laird can't "back up" that Maya shouldn't have been there, not can JS "back up" that ETNZ were panicked and out of their depths - in both counts they were wrong - JS embarrassingly so!

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25 minutes ago, rh2600 said:

Being intelligent, driven or successful doesn't make you immune from being an arsehole. Neither of these examples are bragging per-se, but they also can't be "backed up" by the people who said them. Laird can't "back up" that Maya shouldn't have been there, not can JS "back up" that ETNZ were panicked and out of their depths - in both counts they were wrong - JS embarrassingly so!

Laird isn't the only person with that opinion. Here's an enlightening article - note the quotes from Keala Kennelly. Maya nearly drowned, end of story.

https://www.outsideonline.com/1925936/maya-gabeira-takes-breath

As for JS, you may not like his competitive persona, but he was point man and one of the primary architects of one of the greatest sports comebacks in history in AC 34. The fact that ETNZ came back with and won with a better boat in 2017 in no way negates that. 

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8 minutes ago, surfsailor said:

As for JS, you may not like his competitive persona, but he was point man and one of the primary architects of one of the greatest sports comebacks in history in AC 34. The fact that ETNZ came back with and won with a better boat in 2017 in no way negates that. 

+ 10

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5 hours ago, surfsailor said:

Laird isn't the only person with that opinion. Here's an enlightening article - note the quotes from Keala Kennelly. Maya nearly drowned, end of story.

https://www.outsideonline.com/1925936/maya-gabeira-takes-breath

As for JS, you may not like his competitive persona, but he was point man and one of the primary architects of one of the greatest sports comebacks in history in AC 34. The fact that ETNZ came back with and won with a better boat in 2017 in no way negates that. 

So there's more than one person who conveniently ignores the droves of males who have also nearly drowned, and many that actually have, in the same quest... great... arseholes in the company of other arseholes doesn't diminish their arseholeness - what a pointless defence...

BTW - good on JS for finally learning how to sail the boat in AC34, it wouldn't have been a 'comeback' if he'd been able to sail it properly at the start...he may have even needed some 'help' to do it. In any event winning AC34 in no way negates the arseholeness displayed by him at the start of AC35. I'll end as I started "Being ... successful doesn't make you immune from being an arsehole."

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^ Laird is uniquely qualified to make that judgement, and you aren't. Similar judgements have been made about males who have drowned - not all of them, but the ones who were considered to be in over their heads by the experts, of whom Laird is one. If you had ever met Laird's wife, you would know that there is not a chance in hell that he underestimates qualified women based on their gender.

It's cute that you still harbor a bitter grudge and cling to a pathetic conspiracy theory regarding AC 34. Here are some facts - JS won races when his boat had a massive speed deficit, and then - when they got their wing trim and upwind models right - sailed a perfect regatta, winning 8 races in row knowing that a single loss would lose the regatta. He never faltered for a moment. Good luck topping that - there's a reason it's considered the greatest comeback in sports history, and a huge part of that is JS.

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13 minutes ago, surfsailor said:

^ Laird is uniquely qualified to make that judgement, and you aren't. Similar judgements have been made about males who have drowned - not all of them, but the ones who were considered to be in over their heads by the experts, of whom Laird is one. If you had ever met Laird's wife, you would know that there is not a chance in hell that he underestimates qualified women based on their gender.

It's cute that you still harbor a bitter grudge and cling to a pathetic conspiracy theory regarding AC 34. Here are some facts - JS won races when his boat had a massive speed deficit, and then - when they got their wing trim and upwind models right - sailed a perfect regatta, winning 8 races in row knowing that a single loss would lose the regatta. He never faltered for a moment. Good luck topping that - there's a reason it's considered the greatest comeback in sports history, and a huge part of that is JS.

Jesus christ - "some of my friends are black" is now your argument? Give up already - the guy was being an arsehole - there's enough people qualified to 'make that judgement' whatever the fuck that means, that agree.. 

I know the facts from AC34, I fucking stated them. I note you continue to not address AC35, so let me spell it out for you... again

Laird was being a cock about Maya - irrespective of his qualifications or big-wave prowess bruh
JS was being a cock about ETNZ during AC36 - irrespective of what he "did" in AC34

You may appreciate that attitude of cockish-ness - good for you - I don't...

It's cute you still live in the past of a sailing victory so long ago as if it still matters and redeems JS for all future arseholeness and recent sailing failures - I'm sure Patriots fans the States over are going "yeah!? Well we won last time and that was the best Superbowl ever! so there" and as a result Brady will forever be able to shit on any other quarterback...

give me a break dude...

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52 minutes ago, rh2600 said:

when they got their wing trim and upwind models right - sailed a perfect regatta, winning 8 races in row knowing that a single loss

No one, no one here really believes that, probably not even you.  Even the blind man living just down the road here told me that OR cheated, he saw it clear as day.

But Karma is a real bitch and that foil trim system on TNZ was payback baby.

giphy.gif

 

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43 minutes ago, random said:

No one, no one here really believes that, probably not even you.  Even the blind man living just down the road here told me that OR cheated, he saw it clear as day.

But Karma is a real bitch and that foil trim system on TNZ was payback baby.

giphy.gif

 

ahahahahahahahahahaha

righto champ

lets see a shred of evidence there

fucking everybody from NZ on this forum says they cheated but then fucking freezes when it comes to proving it

and just because JS lost his last cup doesn't remove all the shit that he did achieve, i'd like to see you do any of that yourself hahaha

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54 minutes ago, inebriated said:

ahahahahahahahahahaha

righto champ

lets see a shred of evidence there

fucking everybody from NZ on this forum says they cheated but then fucking freezes when it comes to proving it

and just because JS lost his last cup doesn't remove all the shit that he did achieve, i'd like to see you do any of that yourself hahaha

I am from NZ and have never said they cheated.  Is that proof enough for you?

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Just now, Terry Hollis said:

I am from NZ and have never said they cheated.  Is that proof enough for you?

i was exaggerating

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13 hours ago, rh2600 said:

Laird is cut from the same douche-bro cloth as JS so its no surprise that @wethog is a fan of both...

Douche-bro?  Thats a new one. 

Anyway, it takes a douche-bro to know a douche-bro.  :rolleyes:

WetHog  :ph34r:

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6 hours ago, inebriated said:

ahahahahahahahahahaha

righto champ

lets see a shred of evidence there

fucking everybody from NZ on this forum says they cheated but then fucking freezes when it comes to proving it

and just because JS lost his last cup doesn't remove all the shit that he did achieve, i'd like to see you do any of that yourself hahaha

@inebriated mate I'm not sure you have the basis to laugh at anyone on this board - given you've failed to conceal the fact that your understanding and knowledge of AC is minimal at best.... I recall you saying it had something to do with mum not letting you stay up late to watch it or something...  whatever the reason... there's years of watching, reading, and learning to make up before you get to scoff at people like @random.

No-one laughed at you when you said that the grinders on the AC50s where pulling rope, or when you thought that ETNZ wasn't as good as OTUSA because they 'lost the starts' in early races that they publicly stated at the time the weren't trying to win.

Maybe do yourself a solid and go and read the history of AC34, learn where the foiling in that regatta originated from, how the teams tried to learn to control it, the tech that was used, the complaints lodged with measuring committees and their responses... perhaps come back here and share your account, and some may take the time to help you fill in the blanks.

In the mean time turning up late, asking dumb questions and making declarations the demonstrate you don't know much, and then turning and pointing at those around you that do isn't really a great look...

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4 hours ago, WetHog said:

Douche-bro?  Thats a new one. 

Anyway, it takes a douche-bro to know a douche-bro.  :rolleyes:

WetHog  :ph34r:

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=douchebro

Are you suggesting Laird and JS know each other? Quite possibly - they are both sponsored by Red Bull right? - a brand that scores quite high on the douchebro index

;-)

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8 hours ago, rh2600 said:

Jesus christ - "some of my friends are black" is now your argument? Give up already - the guy was being an arsehole - there's enough people qualified to 'make that judgement' whatever the fuck that means, that agree.. 

I know the facts from AC34, I fucking stated them. I note you continue to not address AC35, so let me spell it out for you... again

Laird was being a cock about Maya - irrespective of his qualifications or big-wave prowess bruh
JS was being a cock about ETNZ during AC36 - irrespective of what he "did" in AC34

You may appreciate that attitude of cockish-ness - good for you - I don't...

It's cute you still live in the past of a sailing victory so long ago as if it still matters and redeems JS for all future arseholeness and recent sailing failures - I'm sure Patriots fans the States over are going "yeah!? Well we won last time and that was the best Superbowl ever! so there" and as a result Brady will forever be able to shit on any other quarterback...

give me a break dude...

Not sure why you felt compelled to introduce racism, and - since the America's cup isn't a 'national sport' in the US - 90% of the whinging above is directed at a non-existent target. But yes - you don't know the first thing about either who Laird is or about big wave surfing, and Spithill kicked the living crap out of ETNZ in 2013 (just 5 years ago) with 'the greatest comeback in sports history' - which is why it will be remembered.

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9 minutes ago, rh2600 said:

@inebriated mate I'm not sure you have the basis to laugh at anyone on this board - given you've failed to conceal the fact that your understanding and knowledge of AC is minimal at best.... I recall you saying it had something to do with mum not letting you stay up late to watch it or something...  whatever the reason... there's years of watching, reading, and learning to make up before you get to scoff at people like @random.

Maybe do yourself a solid and go and read the history of AC34, learn where the foiling in that regatta originated from, how the teams tried to learn to control it, the tech that was used, the complaints lodged with measuring committees and their responses... perhaps come back here and share your account, and some may take the time to help you fill in the blanks.

In the mean time turning up late, asking dumb questions and making declarations the demonstrate you don't know much, and then turning and pointing at those around you that do isn't really a great look...

Got nothing, huh. You and Random are a perfect team - be sure and check out his WTC conspiracy theory thread!

LOL

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2 minutes ago, surfsailor said:

Not sure why you felt compelled to introduce racism, and - since the America's cup isn't a 'national sport' in the US - 90% of the whinging above is directed at a non-existent target. But yes - you don't know the first thing about either who Laird is or about big wave surfing, and Spithill kicked the living crap out of ETNZ in 2013 (just 5 years ago) with 'the greatest comeback in sports history' - which is why it will be remembered.

Sigh...ok here we go... please try and concentrate as I explain this for you

"some of my best friends" is a commonplace analogy in this case for the sexism being argued away by claiming his wife will tell you isn't sexist - get it? The 'black' version of it is the most common example so I used to to get my point across, but it appears even adding that didn't work so here goes - https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=some of my best friends are.

"Something prejudiced people say when they're called out on their prejudice. Smacks of tokenism and hypocrisy."

Compared to Laird I know essentially nothing about big wave riding, no shit. I also know very little about Laird other than videos I've watched over the past few decades and articles and interviews I've read in surfings mags in the old days, and blogs these days. But as I've stated over and over again, what I do know is when someone is acting like a dick and this is about a person acting like a dick, not about their skills or the fact they are nice to their wife or support other females. But again if you argument is now based on ad hominem attacks on me not knowing about big wave surfing so I can't call out sexism then its already over.

OTUSA's comeback in AC34 was an amazing spectacle - somewhat spoilt in my mind by the behaviour and conduct of JS, and plenty of OTUSA fans at the compound. Again, you might think the victory permits that behaviour, but my whole point is that I (and plenty of others) don't think that winning excuses it. BTW - I don't think anyone thinks OTUSA 'kicked the living crap' out of ETNZ in AC34, they eventually won by 1 race, and given the race that ran out of time, it was an extremely close series - *thats* what made it a spectacle.

If you want to see what kicking the living crap looks like, you should watch AC35 mate...

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14 minutes ago, surfsailor said:

Got nothing, huh. You and Random are a perfect team - be sure and check out his WTC conspiracy theory thread!

LOL

Please find a post where I accuse OTUSA of cheating... I'm not sure I've ever shared my thoughts on that...

What I *did* state above is that 'some' people think OTUSA had help - you'd agree with that right? There are some people on this board who (rightly or wrongly) think OTUSA cheated - right?

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28 minutes ago, rh2600 said:

Sigh...ok here we go... please try and concentrate as I explain this for you

"some of my best friends" is a commonplace analogy in this case for the sexism being argued away by claiming his wife will tell you isn't sexist - get it? The 'black' version of it is the most common example so I used to to get my point across, but it appears even adding that didn't work so here goes - https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=some of my best friends are.

"Something prejudiced people say when they're called out on their prejudice. Smacks of tokenism and hypocrisy."

Compared to Laird I know essentially nothing about big wave riding, no shit. I also know very little about Laird other than videos I've watched over the past few decades and articles and interviews I've read in surfings mags in the old days, and blogs these days. But as I've stated over and over again, what I do know is when someone is acting like a dick and this is about a person acting like a dick, not about their skills or the fact they are nice to their wife or support other females. But again if you argument is now based on ad hominem attacks on me not knowing about big wave surfing so I can't call out sexism then its already over.

OTUSA's comeback in AC34 was an amazing spectacle - somewhat spoilt in my mind by the behaviour and conduct of JS, and plenty of OTUSA fans at the compound. Again, you might think the victory permits that behaviour, but my whole point is that I (and plenty of others) don't think that winning excuses it. BTW - I don't think anyone thinks OTUSA 'kicked the living crap' out of ETNZ in AC34, they eventually won by 1 race, and given the race that ran out of time, it was an extremely close series - *thats* what made it a spectacle.

If you want to see what kicking the living crap looks like, you should watch AC35 mate...

I claimed no such thing about Laird's wife. Nor were my premises ad hominem in any way, beyond noting your obvious ignorance of big wave surfing, which you yourself acknowledge. But if it makes you happy, go on bitterly hating away on the internet against a bunch of people you don't know. There's a word for that, and it starts with a 'T'.

As for the AC, I obviously watched both recent cups, although I only attended 34. Seeing the entire OR team rally and get their boat up to it's potential - with JS unflinching at the helm - was an amazing experience. I've been part of numerous successful world championship campaigns as a designer, and this was next level shit. It was a painful loss for ETNZ, and I empathise with that - but that in no way diminishes the accomplishments of team OR. 

AC35 not so much - ETNZ did an amazing job, but the decisions that won the cup (vastly increased hydro via cyclors, separating  flight control from driving) were made very early on - at least a year before the event - and it became clear quite by mid event (trials) that barring a catastrophic crash by ETNZ, it was all over but the crying. So kudos to ETNZ for a great job well done, but no, that will not be remembered as the 'greatest anything in history'.

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2 minutes ago, surfsailor said:

I claimed no such thing about Laird's wife. Nor were my premises ad hominem in any way, beyond noting your obvious ignorance of big wave surfing, which you yourself acknowledge. But if it makes you happy, go on bitterly hating away on the internet against a bunch of people you don't know. There's a word for that, and it starts with a 'T'.

As for the AC, I obviously watched both recent cups, although I only attended 34. Seeing the entire OR team rally and get their boat up to it's potential - with JS unflinching at the helm - was an amazing experience. I've been part of numerous successful world championship campaigns as a designer, and this was next level shit. It was a painful loss for ETNZ, and I empathise with that - but that in no way diminishes the accomplishments of team OR. 

AC35 not so much - ETNZ did an amazing job, but the decisions that won the cup (vastly increased hydro via cyclors, separating  flight control from driving) were made very early on - at least a year before the event - and it became clear quite early that barring a catastrophic crash by ETNZ, it was all over but the crying. So kudos to ETNZ for a great job well done, but no, that will not be remembered as the 'greatest anything in history'.

Great at least we are getting somewhere... AC part is done - although I must admit I'm amazed you'd picked ETNZ were going to win AC35 a year in advance - I must have missed those posts of yours ;-)

"If you had ever met Laird's wife, you would know that there is not a chance in hell that he underestimates qualified women based on their gender."

That read to me as a "Some of his best friends are women" argument. But if you want to exclude it now, sure thing...

Ad hominem refers to the fact you continue to argue that my lack of surfing prowess means my suggestion that Laird was out of order isn't valid. It appears thats where your position will remain. I share the view of Ken Collins, who *does* know a bit about big wave surfing.

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5 minutes ago, surfsailor said:

(...) that will not be remembered as the 'greatest anything in history'.

This is the das fate of the well-prepared.

If you do your homework, and everything goes smoothly, nobody notices.

If you botch your preparation, and later overcome obstacles that could have been avoided in the first place, you get the attention and kudos.

Absolutely wrong policy, but I see it every day at work.

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15 minutes ago, rh2600 said:

Great at least we are getting somewhere... AC part is done - although I must admit I'm amazed you'd picked ETNZ were going to win AC35 a year in advance - I must have missed those posts of yours ;-)

"If you had ever met Laird's wife, you would know that there is not a chance in hell that he underestimates qualified women based on their gender."

That read to me as a "Some of his best friends are women" argument. But if you want to exclude it now, sure thing...

Ad hominem refers to the fact you continue to argue that my lack of surfing prowess means my suggestion that Laird was out of order isn't valid. It appears thats where your position will remain. I share the view of Ken Collins, who *does* know a bit about big wave surfing.

Your 'reading comprehension' is borderline delusional. My point very simply was that his wife can probably kick his ass. 

And no, I did not mention your surfing prowess - I referenced your lack of knowledge about big wave surfing, which is the basis of your contention that Laird was being an 'asshole' for stating the facts  as he and many other (but not all) big wave surfers saw them at the time of the incident. I suggest you read the article I linked to. And if you're ever on Maui, look me up and we can go surfing - no, not in giant waves, the good (fun) stuff.

I didn't pick ETNZ for the win, because neither I or anyone else outside the team knew until quite late in the game that they'd separated flight control from driving. The extra hydro generated by the cyclors was a significant advantage, but not insurmountable. Dedicated flight control via a follow the bouncing ball touch screen, not so much. 

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11 hours ago, surfsailor said:

It's cute that you still harbor a bitter grudge and cling to a pathetic conspiracy theory regarding AC 34*. Here are some facts - JS won races when his boat had a massive speed deficit, and then - when they got their wing trim and upwind models right - sailed a perfect regatta, winning 8 races in row knowing that a single loss would lose the regatta. He never faltered for a moment. Good luck topping that - there's a reason it's considered the greatest comeback in sports history, and a huge part of that is JS.

Why are you still waffling on about an AC edition tainted by blatant cheating by the defenders? No loss if they stay the fuck away from AC36.

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This time around OR was watched so closely that they did not have the luxury of the same tech to fly the boat, they had to have human input.  So they used twist grips on the wheel.

NZ saw the loophole and had the system to show the foil controller where the foil needed to be so that he just needed to match the setting on the touch screen to make it happen, human input.  That and the foil itself were edge they had as the rigs were the same.

So OR didn't have the quality of feedback that NZ had and setting by feel and intuition in that game are not enough.  It's like a tell-tail on your jib, if the Lee stalls you have already missed to lit.  Same for 'Jummy-boy'.  adjustments too late, not optimal.

So OR clearly applied tech in San Fran that automatically did what NZ had to do manually this time, with one finger, but it must have been sweet for them.  To have the tech turned back onto the smart arses would have made it so sweet.  Revenge is a dish best served cold.

I'm Australian BTW.

Edit: OR cheated in another way in my opinion.  Never replenishing one of the accumulators. although allowed in the rules, was not the spirit of them.  If you recall they gave teh graphics of accumulator pressure in a couple of races then promptly dropped it.  Stored energy is ok if it is put there by the crew, not by compressors before the start.

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7 minutes ago, random said:

This time around OR was watched so closely that they did not have the luxury of the same tech to fly the boat, they had to have human input.  So they used twist grips on the wheel.

NZ saw the loophole and had the system to show the foil controller where the foil needed to be so that he just needed to match the setting on the touch screen to make it happen, human input.  That and the foil itself were edge they had as the rigs were the same.

So OR didn't have the quality of feedback that NZ had and setting by feel and intuition in that game are not enough.  It's like a tell-tail on your jib, if the Lee stalls you have already missed to lit.  Same for 'Jummy-boy'.  adjustments too late, not optimal.

So OR clearly applied tech in San Fran that automatically did what NZ had to do manually this time, with one finger, but it must have been sweet for them.  To have the tech turned back onto the smart arses would have made it so sweet.  Revenge is a dish best served cold.

I'm Australian BTW.

Edit: OR cheated in another way in my opinion.  Never replenishing one of the accumulators. although allowed in the rules, was not the spirit of them.  If you recall they gave teh graphics of accumulator pressure in a couple of races then promptly dropped it.  Stored energy is ok if it is put there by the crew, not by compressors before the start.

The part I've highlighted in red is a flat out lie. Beyond that, most of your post is correct - ETNZ figured out a loophole that allowed them to implement essentially the exact system they falsely accused OR of having in AC34. In AC35, the input on ETNZ's system wasn't human - it came directly from the computer. They simply introduced a human link in the command chain, which was facilitated by the fact that the cyclors meant that they had more free hands. 

I would also note that in AC35, ALL the teams started the races with fully pressurized accumulators. Those accumulators were not permitted in AC34, which is yet another reason why OR could not possibly have had automatic flight control - oil on demand is nowhere near fast enough to take advantage of such a system.

 

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13 minutes ago, surfsailor said:

The part I've highlighted in red is a flat out lie. Beyond that, most of your post is correct - ETNZ figured out a loophole that allowed them to implement essentially the exact system they falsely accused OR of having in AC34. In AC35, the input on ETNZ's system wasn't human - it came directly from the computer. They simply introduced a human link in the command chain, which was facilitated by the fact that the cyclors meant that they had more free hands. 

I would also note that in AC35, ALL the teams started the races with fully pressurized accumulators. Those accumulators were not permitted in AC34, which is yet another reason why OR could not possibly have had automatic flight control - oil on demand is nowhere near fast enough to take advantage of such a system.

 

After a lifetime of sailing I have seen the best sailors with the best boat sometime lose a race or three in a series.  Look at any regatta results and you will see that.  As a sailor, I know from experience that 8-0 requires kit a large step above that of the competition.  To even attempt to tell others that it was tuning, 'beast mode' is an insult to all experienced RRS competitors.  Condescending even.

After NZ was first to the first two marks of the last race in San Fran, they were simply made to look glacial on the windward. again, but they were simply sailing the same as they were before.  The difference on OR was so extreme, so suddenly, that attempting to explain this by tuning the same kit just makes the tale teller look foolish and disrespectful to all thinking sailors.

Karma is a bitch with patience.

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^ You should take a look at the performance data over the course of the regatta. The improvement in OR was incremental (with few false steps) - they were just on a much steeper part of their development curve, whereas ETNZ was much closer to the plateau. Many of the decisions that influenced OR's performance at the end of the regatta were made when OR was still designing for archimedean sailing rather than foiling - literally 20% less hull volume and an overall slicker aero package - so (as always) there was an element of luck, in much the same way that the cyclors dovetailed with the flight control paradigm for ETNZ in AC35. The real surprise in AC34 was not how fast OR were at the end of the regatta, but how slow they were at the beginning

Finally, the win still came down to JS - he was able to win races when he still a huge speed deficit, whereas ETNZ was barely able to win a race  when the speeds were roughly equal, and had no chance once OR's upwind speed exceeded that of the NZ boat. 

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