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In case you missed it, that's EXACTLY what has been happening in this thread. Daily. Since 2013.

In your case, for sure you hem and haw, and dance around the subject - you're like one of those idiots that claims 'the science isn't settled yet' about climate change, pretending to be 'open minded', while promoting the same ignorance/bullshit narrative that the petroleum industry is trying to ram down our throats - but it's pretty clear which side you are on, despite the fact that you never actually spell it out. You know it, I know it, and the little ETNZ troll farm with whom you share constant reach-arounds and tender little butt slaps knows it.

Denial ain't just a river in Egypt, sparky.

:)

 

Ah ok 

So firstly you said you never claimed i was in the cheat camp and called me a liar for claiming you did.

I then showed you that you had done just that, in writing, just a couple of posts before.

And so now you say "yeah you are in the cheat camp!".

FFS bro you may not like the guy but you are doing a great job of emulating your Cheeto overlord in terms of backflips and hypocrisy.

Hey you might not know this because you are clearly an idiot, but climate change science has been validated through critically important and fundamental processes such as peer reviews - the exact activity you are trying to shut down here.

 

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Here, I’ll make it easy for you: Do you think OR cheated during the AC 34 match?

Its a simple yes or no question.

:)

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^ Could you possibly be any more delusional/butthurt? Show me where I said that.

Lol

Fuck me we go round in circles eh - you are a few sammies short of a picnic

You just did it at 8201...

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Here, I’ll make it easy for you: Do you think OR cheated during the AC 34 match?

Its a simple yes or no question.

:)

You've proven yourself unworthy of a response in regards to this matter...

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Hey, I am still waiting for the inquiry into Australia II and that cheating keel.

You guys would not be banging on endlessly about if Oracle did or didn't if those damned Aussies had not cheated and those refined honest gentlemen of the NYYC still held stewardship over the Cup.

 

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You've proven yourself unworthy of a response in regards to this matter...

You literally cannot answer a simple yes or no question - because you know the truth would make you look like the whingeing tool bag that you are. But that’s ok - we all know the answer anyway, your pathetic and spineless denial not withstanding.

lol

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Hey, I am still waiting for the inquiry into Australia II and that cheating keel.

You guys would not be banging on endlessly about if Oracle did or didn't if those damned Aussies had not cheated and those refined honest gentlemen of the NYYC still held stewardship over the Cup.

 

Believe me - if they’d beaten the kiwis in that match, we’d still be hearing about how ‘unfair’ it was - 25 years later!

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Here, I’ll make it easy for you: Do you think OR cheated during the AC 34 match? Simple and correct answer is YES.

Its a simple yes or no question.

:)

 

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^ Yes, yes, we know. Have any evidence yet? It’s been 5 years, surely by now...

lol

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-sailing-americascup-cheating/oracle-hit-with-unprecedented-penalties-for-americas-cup-cheating-idUSBRE98211Y20130904

“The incidents are serious and unprecedented in the America’s Cup,” the jury report said. “The seriousness of the breaches cannot be understated.”

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You literally cannot answer a simple yes or no question - because you know the truth would make you look like the whingeing tool bag that you are. But that’s ok - we all know the answer anyway, your pathetic and spineless denial not withstanding.

lol

Thanks for immediately proving my point! :-)

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https://www.reuters.com/article/us-sailing-americascup-cheating/oracle-hit-with-unprecedented-penalties-for-americas-cup-cheating-idUSBRE98211Y20130904

“The incidents are serious and unprecedented in the America’s Cup,” the jury report said. “The seriousness of the breaches cannot be understated.”

That’s not the match. Fail.

:)

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That’s not the match. Fail.

:)

But its still cheating. Haha still scrambling to defend. So they can cheat as much as they like everywhere else and thats ok as long as its "not the match? It was an event associated with the Americas Cup, thats all that matters. You wanted evidence of cheating, I gave it to you. You can't be picky and choosy about when and where. You cheat, you're a cheat, there's no coming back from that. Game over...cheats

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Thanks for immediately proving my point! :-)

I know - you can’t answer the question because of my magical powers to control your tiny brain - just like ETNZ couldn’t hit match point because of an imaginary ‘herbie’ that was implemented in the darkest hours of a single night. A system so sophisticated that only the most obsessed and delusional internet warriors were able to discover it after spending years masturbating to grainy videos of Jimmy Spithill sailing eight near  perfect races in a row to clinch the cup.

:)

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But its still cheating. And it was an event associated with the Americas Cup. You wanted evidence of cheating, I gave it to you. You can't be picky and choosy about when and where. You cheat, you're a cheat, there's no coming back from that. Game over...cheats

Actually I can - they are two completely different things. One involves a few guys - the other involves dozens of people. When you make wild, paranoid accusations to deflect from your team’s loss, you need to present actual evidence. 5 years of butthurt whingeing doesn’t count.

Also, that wasn’t the America’s cup.

:)

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Actually I can - they are two completely different things. Haha no, they're not, which is why the majority of the sailing community had no respect for the Oracle Team and wanted them to lose, and were happy when they did. It wasn't "Team a Few guys" that got caught cheating, it was Oracle Team USA. One involves a few guys - the other involves dozens of people. Yet they still represent the same teams regardless of how many people are involved. When you make wild, paranoid accusations to deflect from your team’s loss, you need to present actual evidence. 5 years of butthurt whingeing doesn’t count. I just did. Game over. Where's your evidence that they didn't? still haven't seen it yet.

I recognise they lost, but you won't recognise they're a team of cheats, so who's the whinger here? THEY CHEATED AND GOT CAUGHT so game over. Difference is Oracle quit when the going got tough, ETNZ came back and won it back, so who's the real champion team?

 

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Actually I can - they are two completely different things. One involves a few guys - the other involves dozens of people. When you make wild, paranoid accusations to deflect from your team’s loss, you need to present actual evidence. 5 years of butthurt whingeing doesn’t count.

:)

Cheating is cheating my friend. Once you've gone down that path once, there's no coming back. Any sports cheat will tell you that. Whether it was the "Americas Cup World Series" or "The Americas Cup Match" it doesn't matter, both are associated with one event, The Americas Cup. They illegally modified One design boats, for which they were caught and penalized. Game over. The rest is white noise.

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6 minutes ago, surfsailor said:

^ People will remember the greatest comeback is sailing history, don’t worry.

:)

Who are these "People" you speak of? Yourself, Inebriated, Stingray? America didn't gave a shit about Oracle Team USA, in fact they were glad to see the back of them when they left San Francisco, a lot of the Sailing community celebrated the Oracle demolition job, most of the Team were Aussies, and they're too busy doing "more important things" like 100 foot Super maxi campaigns, the AC is headed in a completely new direction, so the only ones who will remember were probably fair weather fans anyway and their team quit when the going got tough so even if they are still hanging by a thread, they won't hang around much longer.

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7 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

There are serious mental issues on display by a select few Kiwis posting here. If it’s not from something in the water down there then what else accounts for the lunacy?

Mental issues on display also by those who feed the trolls, can't leave this thread alone, no matter which side they're on. Isn't there someone who wants this thread to go to 100 pages, who is not a Kiwi? Who posts two or three posts/one-liners, one after the other, has apparently never heard of the "edit" or "MultiQuote" function, hence only wants to increase his/her post count? Goes both ways in fact.

The good thing is, one only needs to half-read the posts, because they're repetitive.

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16 minutes ago, sclarke said:

Who are these "People" you speak of? Yourself, Inebriated, Stingray? America didn't gave a shit about Oracle Team USA, in fact they were glad to see the back of them when they left San Francisco, a lot of the Sailing community celebrated the Oracle demolition job, most of the Team were Aussies, and they're too busy doing "more important things" like 100 foot Super maxi campaigns, the AC is headed in a completely new direction, so the only ones who will remember were probably fair weather fans anyway and their team quit when the going got tough so even if they are still hanging by a thread, they won't hang around much longer.

you're not sounding like you're forgetting it anytime soon

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To my memory, the comeback was painful, incredible and, at the time, unbelievable. 

We've seen enough evidence in this thread alone to sum up and deliberate for ourselves the balance of probability to a guilty or not-guilty verdict. 

The comeback was akin to a B grade American movie from the 1980's whereby the evil team won because they cheated. The only thing missing from this was the correct ending where the evil team gets busted and has to hand the trophy to the rightful winners..

Surfsailer, if you were a dog, you'd have been put to sleep some time ago against the diagnosis of rabies. You're delusional and foaming from the mouth.

Guilty.

Third reef grin

 

 

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^ Hahahaha. I guess denial isn’t an island either - what are there, 6 ‘true believers’ plus Randum?

It’s cool tho - if you guys want to relive ETNZ’s defeat in AC34 on a daily basis, who am I to stop you? 

There will be news about the new boats soon which will be considerably more interesting than watching you guys fail at relitigating 2013, but I’ll do my best to check in here periodically to make sure the wailing and gnashing of teeth doesn’t go completely unnoticed. 

Maybe someone can send me a PM when you get close to 100 pages so I can be there when you cross the finish line.

lol

 

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25 minutes ago, surfsailor said:

^ Hahahaha. I guess denial isn’t an island either - what are there, 6 ‘true believers’ plus Randum?

It’s cool tho - if you guys want to relive ETNZ’s defeat in AC34 on a daily basis, who am I to stop you? 

There will be news about the new boats soon which will be considerably more interesting than watching you guys fail at relitigating 2013, but I’ll do my best to check in here periodically to make sure the wailing and gnashing of teeth doesn’t go completely unnoticed. 

Maybe someone can send me a PM when you get close to 100 pages so I can be there when you cross the finish line.

lol

 

Finally...how long did it take? Jesus H Christ! If you had've just admitted they cheated in the first place this would've been over a long time ago! But anywho...we got there in the end, but don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

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10 hours ago, inebriated said:

you're not sounding like you're forgetting it anytime soon

Forgetting what? Nothing happened in 2013 did it? I don't recall. Anyway, Well what do ya know, Oracle was full of Aussies..someone said something about something being in the water? Definitely something in the water over the ditch. Even today, they just can't help themselves! Fuckin cheats!

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/cricket/102566183/australia-in-alleged-ball-tampering-incident-in-south-africa?cid=facebook.post.102566183

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yet who's name is etched onto the cup for ac34??

facts don't lie

you won last cup, and you got beaten the time before that, what will it take for you guys to just accept defeat? it seems to me that every cup you guys lose, you have a little conspiracy theory about it, first the fibreglass, then the cat, the bowsprit, coutts and now cheating. pretty fucking toxic over there if you ask me. i agree that oracle cheated in the ACWS and i'm no fan because of that and many other things, but at least when they lost, them and their supporters could accept the loss.

you do know that you guys won't hold the cup forever right? someone's going to beat you someday and i'm almost excited for the shit that you guys will pull to excuse it.

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/cheating-in-kiwi-sport-athletes-caught-buying-performance-enhancing-drugs-made-horses

there are cheaters everywhere, in every country at every level. you really think that most Olympic athletes don't take performance enhancers? the difference is that they had the technology to check oracle's boat and it was ruled legal.

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1 hour ago, inebriated said:

yet who's name is etched onto the cup for ac34??

facts don't lie

you won last cup, and you got beaten the time before that, what will it take for you guys to just accept defeat? it seems to me that every cup you guys lose, you have a little conspiracy theory about it, first the fibreglass, then the cat, the bowsprit, coutts and now cheating. pretty fucking toxic over there if you ask me. i agree that oracle cheated in the ACWS and i'm no fan because of that and many other things, but at least when they lost, them and their supporters could accept the loss.

you do know that you guys won't hold the cup forever right? someone's going to beat you someday and i'm almost excited for the shit that you guys will pull to excuse it.

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/cheating-in-kiwi-sport-athletes-caught-buying-performance-enhancing-drugs-made-horses

there are cheaters everywhere, in every country at every level. you really think that most Olympic athletes don't take performance enhancers? the difference is that they had the technology to check oracle's boat and it was ruled legal.

Most Olympic athletes don't take ILLEGAL performance enhancers. Are you saying Pete Burling and Blair Tuke are taking Illegal Substances just because they won? Are you saying Ainslie is a drug cheat? Are you saying Slingsby is a drug cheat? Giles Scott? Outteridge and Jensen must be drug cheats too huh? Because that is a whole new level of stupid! Those that do take ILLEGAL performance enhancers (and there is a list of illegal substances and masking agents) get busted, and they get disqualified and banned from that sport. Getting beaten is one thing, and is acceptable. Kiwi teams get beaten all the time, and we accept being beaten by a team/ person who is better, but to get beaten by a team/ person who has a proven history of cheating is not acceptable. Cheaters should be disqualified and banned from that sport just as the Australian Cricket team should be banned from that sport.

I don't give a shit about what was legal, or what wasn't. That boat should never have been on the start line. They should've been disqualified from the Americas Cup, just as any Olympic Athlete would be if they cheat, or that win should have been discounted. But who cares, they lost, we won. They're dead, and all is right with the world. 

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Just now, sclarke said:

Most Olympic athletes don't take ILLEGAL performance enhancers. Are you saying Pete Burling and Blair Tuke are taking Illegal Substances just because they won? Are you saying Ainslie is a drug cheat? Are you saying Slingsby is a drug cheat? Giles Scott? Outteridge and Jensen must be drug cheats too huh? Because that is a whole new level of stupid! Those that do take ILLEGAL performance enhancers (and there is a list of illegal substances and masking agents) get busted, and they get disqualified and banned from that sport. Getting beaten is one thing, and is acceptable. Kiwi teams get beaten all the time, and we accept being beaten by a team/ person who is better, but to get beaten by a team/ person who has a proven history of cheating is not acceptable. Cheaters should be disqualified and banned from that sport just as the Australian Cricket team should be banned from that sport.

I don't give a shit about what was legal, or what wasn't. That boat should never have been on the start line. They should've been disqualified from the Americas Cup, just as any Olympic Athlete would be if they cheat, or that win should have been discounted. But who cares, they lost, we won. They're dead, and all is right with the world. 

no, i was talking about olympic athletes as a whole

there are defeniteley sports that have lower if any participation in doping, one of those would be sailing i would say seeing as physical strength is second to skill and decision making

but sports like athletics i would say otherwise, and so would one of the leading doping ethicists, Julian Savulescu.

he argues that doping in sports should be legalised because it is so hard to catch as it is, and so many people are doing it currently

the reality is that so many performance enhancing drugs that are illegal cannot be traced, look here

http://www.dw.com/en/athletes-turn-to-undetectable-medicines-to-boost-performance/a-4578355

you really think that athletes refuse those drugs that are untracable?

stop living in a bubble mate, they got penalised for cheating, lost their best wing trimmer, some shore crew and docked 2 race wins

the punishment was fair, the lead shot made the same difference that the crew could have made by shifting forward 10cm

the weight could've been put in with decals and paint if they wanted

they did get disqualified from the racing associated, but even if the ACWS racing was effected by the lead shot, it couldn't have counted for the match itself in any way possible

it was bad, but not bad enough for complete disqualification, clearly an action by a rouge group of sailors/ shore team that cost the team enough

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1 hour ago, inebriated said:

it was bad, but not bad enough

just a little bit of cheating...like covering and starting behind...then yelling "work your ass off" when you need an obscene amount of oil for adjustments 3 times a second. Just one upwind leg, maybe the last one...just a little FUCKING CHEAT.

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1 hour ago, inebriated said:

clearly an action by a rouge group of sailors/ shore team

you are clearly fucking clueless as has been mentioned.

rm for jeweler's rouge.

verb [ with obj. ] (often as adj. rouged)

color with rouge: her brightly rouged cheeks.

• [ no obj. ] archaic apply rouge to one's cheeks.

and

 

red-ass. a person who is so intense in his/her competitive spirit that they are constantly on the verge of boiling over. Bobby Knight is a red-ass, as is Randy Johnston.

red-ass - The Online Slang Dictionary

onlineslangdictionary.com/meaning-definition-of/red-ass
 
 

red.jpg

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Just now, barfy said:

you are clearly fucking clueless as has been mentioned.

rm for jeweler's rouge.

verb [ with obj. ] (often as adj. rouged)

color with rouge: her brightly rouged cheeks.

• [ no obj. ] archaic apply rouge to one's cheeks.

and

 

red-ass. a person who is so intense in his/her competitive spirit that they are constantly on the verge of boiling over. Bobby Knight is a red-ass, as is Randy Johnston.

red-ass - The Online Slang Dictionary

onlineslangdictionary.com/meaning-definition-of/red-ass
 
 

red.jpg

well i guess we can all now see your argumentative skills

you've got me

i spelled rogue wrong

bazinga

mistakes happen for mere mortals like me

but hey, you would think that such a genius like you would remember to put a capital letter on the start of his sentences, hey?

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4 minutes ago, inebriated said:

well i guess we can all now see your argumentative skills

you've got me

i spelled rogue wrong

bazinga

mistakes happen for mere mortals like me

but hey, you would think that such a genius like you would remember to put a capital letter on the start of his sentences, hey?

fuck you asshole

:)

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8 hours ago, inebriated said:

no, i was talking about olympic athletes as a whole

So now every Olympic athlete is a drug cheat? WTF!? Tom Walsh would beg to differ mate.

there are defeniteley sports that have lower if any participation in doping, one of those would be sailing i would say seeing as physical strength is second to skill and decision making

So every Olympic athlete that participates in a sport that requires athletic ability is a drug cheat? You're an idiot.

but sports like athletics i would say otherwise, and so would one of the leading doping ethicists, Julian Savulescu.

Then this guy is also an idiot. Next level stupidity!!

he argues that doping in sports should be legalised because it is so hard to catch as it is, and so many people are doing it currently

Doping in sport should be lagalised? WTF!? You or anyone else that believes this, has NO PLACE anywhere in sport if you condone cheating.

the reality is that so many performance enhancing drugs that are illegal cannot be traced, look here

http://www.dw.com/en/athletes-turn-to-undetectable-medicines-to-boost-performance/a-4578355

you really think that athletes refuse those drugs that are untracable?

Yes, some do. Do you really believe some athletes aren't just good at what they do? And that they train to do what they do?

stop living in a bubble mate, they got penalised for cheating, lost their best wing trimmer, some shore crew and docked 2 race wins

Stop living in la la land

the punishment was fair, the lead shot made the same difference that the crew could have made by shifting forward 10cm

Yet, the fact remains, the ONLY regatta they won was the one they ended up being disqualified for, and I don't believe in coincidence.

the weight could've been put in with decals and paint if they wanted

They weight shouldn't have been put in at all!!

they did get disqualified from the racing associated, but even if the ACWS racing was effected by the lead shot, it couldn't have counted for the match itself in any way possible

it was bad, but not bad enough for complete disqualification, clearly an action by a rouge group of sailors/ shore team that cost the team enough

Clearly an action by a team of cheats that threw some no name guys under the bus so the real culprits wouldn't get busted.

 

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Just now, sclarke said:

 

fuark, sorry hahaha

my first line was supposed to say wasn't, not was

i was typing on my phone, i'm sure that you can understand the predicament of fingers bigger than the touch buttons and autocorrect

the fact remains though, too many athletes in elite physical sports such as athletics, powerlifting and swimming dope, look at how many that get caught every year, or olympic cycle. then look at their performances

you really think that justin gatlin was getting beaten by usain bolt, while gatlin was doping and bolt was not?

the fact of the matter is that cheating is all over nearly every sport

belive me, i don't agree with Julian Savulescu about legalising doping, and even if i did, that would not be condoning cheating, the move would probably do away with cheating by doping altogether. read some of his stuff and you might understand

i do agree with him when he claims that doping is getting out of hand with it being untraceable and so common.

i defenitly believe that some athletes are good at what they do, but i think that it is hard to think that those athletes are competing and finishing so close to those who gain a massive advantage through drugs

it is fair to say that Savulescu is not an idiot, but a well read man who bases his arguments on actual facts, not feelings like you seem to do

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3 hours ago, inebriated said:

fuark, sorry hahaha

my first line was supposed to say wasn't, not was

i was typing on my phone, i'm sure that you can understand the predicament of fingers bigger than the touch buttons and autocorrect

the fact remains though, too many athletes in elite physical sports such as athletics, powerlifting and swimming dope, look at how many that get caught every year, or olympic cycle. then look at their performances

you really think that justin gatlin was getting beaten by usain bolt, while gatlin was doping and bolt was not?

the fact of the matter is that cheating is all over nearly every sport

belive me, i don't agree with Julian Savulescu about legalising doping, and even if i did, that would not be condoning cheating, the move would probably do away with cheating by doping altogether. read some of his stuff and you might understand

i do agree with him when he claims that doping is getting out of hand with it being untraceable and so common.

i defenitly believe that some athletes are good at what they do, but i think that it is hard to think that those athletes are competing and finishing so close to those who gain a massive advantage through drugs

it is fair to say that Savulescu is not an idiot, but a well read man who bases his arguments on actual facts, not feelings like you seem to do

Poor Surfsailor will be rolling in his self appointed grave, given that only hours after his departure, you've taken your side of the arguments in this thread from "they didn't cheat" to "well everyone is cheating!".

I wonder if the recent state of affairs of your cricketing team has anything to do with this (totally unnecessary) pivot to such a weak defence.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/ball-tampering-controversy-has-broken-cricket-s-rich-poetic-heart-20180325-p4z64o.html

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3 hours ago, inebriated said:

fuark, sorry hahaha

my first line was supposed to say wasn't, not was

i was typing on my phone, i'm sure that you can understand the predicament of fingers bigger than the touch buttons and autocorrect

the fact remains though, too many athletes in elite physical sports such as athletics, powerlifting and swimming dope, look at how many that get caught every year, or olympic cycle. then look at their performances

Wait a second...so because they're putting on gold medal winning performances they have to be on PED's?? Fuck mate, you really are next level stupid.

you really think that justin gatlin was getting beaten by usain bolt, while gatlin was doping and bolt was not?

the fact of the matter is that cheating is all over nearly every sport.

So that makes it ok? So we should just make cheating legal so its no longer cheating?? 

Maybe we should make crime legal as well? Thats out of control too. If you legalise crime, its no longer illegal to commit one right?

belive me, i don't agree with Julian Savulescu about legalising doping, and even if i did, that would not be condoning cheating, the move would probably do away with cheating by doping altogether. read some of his stuff and you might understand.

Make no mistake, if you believe PED's should be made legal, you ARE CONDONING CHEATING.

i do agree with him when he claims that doping is getting out of hand with it being untraceable and so common.

i defenitly believe that some athletes are good at what they do, but i think that it is hard to think that those athletes are competing and finishing so close to those who gain a massive advantage through drugs.

Ridiculous. You're a fuckwit. You think the ones who win legally must be on PED's because they finish close to the ones who are actually on PED's? That would make every podium placer in the Olympics a drug cheat.

it is fair to say that Savulescu is not an idiot, but a well read man who bases his arguments on actual facts, not feelings like you seem to do.

He has no facts. None at all.

 

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6 hours ago, sclarke said:

 

Did you read his stuff though?

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/olympics/athletics/usain-bolt-stripped-of-2008-olympic-medal-after-anti-doping-rule-violation-a7545636.html

first off, they caught nearly 500 athletes doping in Beijing games after reanalysing the blood samples. 

Thats fucked, and to think that people are doing it less now would be stupid, if anything more and more would be partaking in doping. 

we are getting sidetracked away from the main point though, being that oracle shouldn’t of been in the cup match due to cheating in the ACWS

the link leads to an interesting article about Usain Bolt being stripped of his gold medal from the 2008 relay

similar to oracle being stripped of the ACWS win, although the PED’s would have probably made more of a difference than a bit of lead in the King post. 

So by your reasoning, Usain Bolt should have been stripped of all his medals??

a team member was caught cheating red handed, similar to oracle having team members messing with boats 

In fact, all of the Jamaican male sprint team should have medals stripped because they would/ could have colluded with the doping athlete, just like oracle should have been gone after the ACWS investigation.

or at least their achievements after the fact should be put into disrepute, so from now on, Usain Bolt will always have an Astrix next to his wins, hey. 

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1 hour ago, inebriated said:

Did you read his stuff though?

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/olympics/athletics/usain-bolt-stripped-of-2008-olympic-medal-after-anti-doping-rule-violation-a7545636.html

first off, they caught nearly 500 athletes doping in Beijing games after reanalysing the blood samples. 

Thats fucked, and to think that people are doing it less now would be stupid, if anything more and more would be partaking in doping. 

we are getting sidetracked away from the main point though, being that oracle shouldn’t of been in the cup match due to cheating in the ACWS

the link leads to an interesting article about Usain Bolt being stripped of his gold medal from the 2008 relay

similar to oracle being stripped of the ACWS win, although the PED’s would have probably made more of a difference than a bit of lead in the King post. 

So by your reasoning, Usain Bolt should have been stripped of all his medals??

a team member was caught cheating red handed, similar to oracle having team members messing with boats 

In fact, all of the Jamaican male sprint team should have medals stripped because they would/ could have colluded with the doping athlete, just like oracle should have been gone after the ACWS investigation.

or at least their achievements after the fact should be put into disrepute, so from now on, Usain Bolt will always have an Astrix next to his wins, hey. 

https://www.newsday.com/sports/olympics/usain-bolt-2008-jamaica-4x100-relay-stipped-of-olympic-gold-medal-1.13012049

They were all stripped of their medals, and rightly so. Even the fastest man on the planet is only ONE member of a relay team, but they are a relay TEAM, and they were DISQUALIFIED AS A TEAM

No, Usain Bolt can't be stripped of a medal in another event because its another event altogether, and its just him competing, no one else, so each athlete gives a sample before and after each event, so its only that sample for that particular event that counts. Not everyone elses, thats how the Olympics works, But it only takes ONE bad sample to face disqualification. Thats not how the Americas Cup works, in the ACWS each team represents the same team who will go on to contest the Americas Cup, which is why the deduction transferred through to the Americas Cup. If the Jamaican relay team of 2008 contested every event as a team, then YES, every member would be disqualified from every event even though only ONE member tested positive. Which is why Oracle should have been disqualified altogether.

Bolt will always have the asterisk next to him for being part of that team, but every other event for which he did not test positive is fine, which is exactly the way it is, and exactly the way it should be.

Its exactly the same with the Russians, they're not all doping, but they are all banned from the Olympics. 

ITS REALLY SIMPLE...WIN AS A TEAM, LOSE AS A TEAM, CHEAT AS A TEAM.

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Just now, sclarke said:

https://www.newsday.com/sports/olympics/usain-bolt-2008-jamaica-4x100-relay-stipped-of-olympic-gold-medal-1.13012049

They were all stripped of their medals, and rightly so. Even the fastest man on the planet is only ONE member of a relay team, but they are a relay TEAM, and they were DISQUALIFIED AS A TEAM

No, Usain Bolt can't be stripped of a medal in another event because its another event altogether, and its just him competing, no one else, so each athlete gives a sample before and after each event, so its only that sample for that particular event that counts. Not everyone elses, thats how the Olympics works, But it only takes ONE bad sample to face disqualification. Thats not how the Americas Cup works, in the ACWS each team represents the same team who will go on to contest the Americas Cup, which is why the deduction transferred through to the Americas Cup. If the Jamaican relay team of 2008 contested every event as a team, then YES, every member would be disqualified from every event even though only ONE member tested positive. Which is why Oracle should have been disqualified altogether.

Bolt will always have the asterisk next to him for being part of that team, but every other event for which he did not test positive is fine, which is exactly the way it is, and exactly the way it should be.

Its exactly the same with the Russians, they're not all doping, but they are all banned from the Olympics. 

ITS REALLY SIMPLE...WIN AS A TEAM, LOSE AS A TEAM, CHEAT AS A TEAM.

lets try to follow your reasoning on oracle's ACWS cheating

by one of the sprinters being pinged for doping, all of the sprinters are then put in the same camp of dopers, just as modifying an ac45 can be done by one person.

only a small amount of people got caught for it, but the whole team may of known

Usain bolt and the other Jamaican sprinters were representing jamaica in the relay and future events, just as the party involved with modifying the boat was representing oracle in the ACWS and the cup match itself

therefore if oracle should have an asterix next to their win of the cup in 2013, even though the members involved in the illegal mods were gone, so should Usain bolt because the proven doper is irrelevant to Usain's victory, but the same Jamaican sprint support team is there

another example, justin gatlin was proven to dope in 2006, yet is continuing to compete as he has been proven to be "clean" to todays testing standards

Sun Yang also competed after he was proven guilty of doping

you really think that all these people taking PED's are acting of their own accord?

you really think that their team doctors and performance coaches ect have nothing to do with the doping?

while the individual gets the medal, their is always a team behind the athlete, just like the AC

these dopers do it with the help of their team in the vast majority of cases

ITS REALLY SIMPLE...WIN AS A TEAM, LOSE AS A TEAM, CHEAT AS A TEAM.

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1 hour ago, inebriated said:

lets try to follow your reasoning on oracle's ACWS cheating

by one of the sprinters being pinged for doping, all of the sprinters are then put in the same camp of dopers, just as modifying an ac45 can be done by one person.

But it can't be raced by one person. Thats the difference. You can't compete on an AC45 with a crew of one person. You can't maintain an AC45 with a one person shore crew, in fact you pretty much can't do anything with an AC45 with one person, except stare at it.

only a small amount of people got caught for it, but the whole team may of known

Yes, now you're getting it.

Usain bolt and the other Jamaican sprinters were representing jamaica in the relay and future events, just as the party involved with modifying the boat was representing oracle in the ACWS and the cup match itself.

Yes, thats absolutely correct.

therefore if oracle should have an asterix next to their win of the cup in 2013, even though the members involved in the illegal mods were gone, so should Usain bolt because the proven doper is irrelevant to Usain's victory, but the same Jamaican sprint support team is there

Were they "All" gone? Who was "Sailor X"? Was everyone responsible gone? or just the guys they thought were expendable?

Simeon Tienpont allegedly was the ring leader, yet we heard it every day during racing, "Go button, go board Simeon"

It was alleged that Oracle appealed to keep Simeon in the team because he was critical to their sailing team.

another example, justin gatlin was proven to dope in 2006, yet is continuing to compete as he has been proven to be "clean" to todays testing standards

He also served a 2 year BAN

Sun Yang also competed after he was proven guilty of doping.

Yang also served a 3 month BAN from swimming

you really think that all these people taking PED's are acting of their own accord?

you really think that their team doctors and performance coaches ect have nothing to do with the doping?

No, just as I think it wasn't just the 3 rogue guys responsible for the modifications.

while the individual gets the medal, their is always a team behind the athlete, just like the AC

And often its the team behind them who get off Scott free while the athlete serves the suspension/ Ban...sound familiar?

these dopers do it with the help of their team in the vast majority of cases

You just proved my point! So now you believe that its the TEAM behind the individual, and not the individual alone. Thats what you've just admitted! So the Team behind the 3 individuals should also have been disqualified. That's exactly what you've just said! 

ITS REALLY SIMPLE...WIN AS A TEAM, LOSE AS A TEAM, CHEAT AS A TEAM.

 

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wasn't there an Aussie team just busted for cheating in some random sport?

Captain took the fall, (honourable), but the direction came from up the food chain. The food chain seems to have worked to isolate the scapegoat. Too bad Jimmy didn't fess up; maybe he did as sailor X but we won't know for quite a few years. 

Then you can say ignore it, times gone by.

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15 hours ago, sclarke said:

Its exactly the same with the Russians, they're not all doping, but they are all banned from the Olympics. 

So really they should have competed as 'Americas Cup Athletes from Oracle Team USA' (ACAOTUSA - catchy)

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12 hours ago, inebriated said:

every country has cheating scum

http://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/42630419

Cheating amongst your own, in your own back yard in a local league and getting busted locally by your own countries governing body is one thing... cheating at an international level and getting caught out by cameras during an international fixture is another thing altogether...

fancy you not understanding the difference...

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1 hour ago, TimmyHate said:

So really they should have competed as 'Americas Cup Athletes from Oracle Team USA' (ACAOTUSA - catchy)

Why? They competed as "Athletes from Oracle Team USA"

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Its amazing how all the Oracle fans are trying to either explain away cheating by saying "well everyone cheats now anyway, most Olympic athletes cheat too so its all good" or just flat out refuse to acknowledge it ever happened haha 

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1 minute ago, sclarke said:

With a name like Timmy Hate, one can easily jump to conclusions I guess.

A fair point.

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2 hours ago, sclarke said:

Its amazing how all the Oracle fans are trying to either explain away cheating by saying "well everyone cheats now anyway, most Olympic athletes cheat too so its all good" or just flat out refuse to acknowledge it ever happened haha 

i'm no oracle fan

i am just saying that they copped a fair punishment and should have still competed in the cup match, which they did

it was a similar example to usain bolt and a member of his team caught doping, they punished the affected races, but not any more that were irrelevant to the cheating.

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34 minutes ago, inebriated said:

i'm no oracle fan

i am just saying that they copped a fair punishment and should have still competed in the cup match, which they did

it was a similar example to usain bolt and a member of his team caught doping, they punished the affected races, but not any more that were irrelevant to the cheating.

If it was like Usain Bolt, wouldn't that mean that the guy caught doping would get banned and the rest race that relay?

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Just now, sclarke said:

If it was like Usain Bolt, wouldn't that mean that the guy caught doping would get banned and the rest race that relay?

that could well of happened if the doping was found out about before the race, although they probably would have brought in a reserve runner, just as if the kingpost was found before the ACWS, the associated members would have been banned, maybe indefinitly or for the rest of the cycle and the series would continue

here are the similarities between the two events though

a member of the team was found to cheat after the racing had completed

the entire team that competed was then stripped of their win, regardless of whether the incident was contained to the accused people or throughout the team.

that team then was incredibly successful after the cheating was found out, but in oracle's case, that later success was achieved even though they got penalised for a previous offence

if you truly believe that oracle should not have raced for the cup, then you should also believe that usain bolt should be stripped of his medals

 

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5 minutes ago, inebriated said:

that could well of happened if the doping was found out about before the race, although they probably would have brought in a reserve runner, just as if the kingpost was found before the ACWS, the associated members would have been banned, maybe indefinitly or for the rest of the cycle and the series would continue

here are the similarities between the two events though

a member of the team was found to cheat after the racing had completed

the entire team that competed was then stripped of their win, regardless of whether the incident was contained to the accused people or throughout the team.

that team then was incredibly successful after the cheating was found out, but in oracle's case, that later success was achieved even though they got penalised for a previous offence

if you truly believe that oracle should not have raced for the cup, then you should also believe that usain bolt should be stripped of his medals

 

Bolt WAS stripped of his medal. The Whole team was stripped of their medals! Thats my point! 

"that team then was incredibly successful after the cheating" the two don't go together! How can a team be incredibly successful after cheating? lol

I believe anyone who is part of a team who cheats should be banned, and the team stripped of any medals or achievements they have received. So NO, they should not have been on the start line. They cheated they get disqualified. If an athlete is caught doping at the Olympics, thats it, you get banned, and sent home, even if you have other events to participate in. For example, if you get caught doping in the mens 100 sprint, you don't go on to compete in the 200 and 400 meters because they're different events, you're banned, you're gone, thats the way it should be in the Americas Cup. 

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2 hours ago, sclarke said:

Bolt WAS stripped of his medal. The Whole team was stripped of their medals! Thats my point! 

"that team then was incredibly successful after the cheating" the two don't go together! How can a team be incredibly successful after cheating? lol

I believe anyone who is part of a team who cheats should be banned, and the team stripped of any medals or achievements they have received. So NO, they should not have been on the start line. They cheated they get disqualified. If an athlete is caught doping at the Olympics, thats it, you get banned, and sent home, even if you have other events to participate in. For example, if you get caught doping in the mens 100 sprint, you don't go on to compete in the 200 and 400 meters because they're different events, you're banned, you're gone, thats the way it should be in the Americas Cup. 

but i'm saying that what happened in ac34 is exactly like what happens in every other sport

the people who were convicted cheating did get banned!

you really think that losing their best wing trimmer didn't affect the team?! (plus a few shore crew)

and like Usain Bolt and the rest of the relay team, they got disqualified for the event that they cheated in, the ACWS!

the two situations are so similar you can't make it up!

so if you think that Oracle should have been disqualified from racing in the cup, you're implying that double standards should be in place for very similar events, probably only on the basis that Oracle went on to win the cup!

the funny thing is that Usain Bolt won his first gold medals in 100m and 200m sprints just before the relay, in which a member of his team got caught cheating, following your standards, an asterix should be placed next to those wins, Bolt's first gold medals coinciding with a team member getting caught cheating, does that make you go hhhhmmmmmm?

image.png.bffab99e1945b9cc954dad798752fdee.png

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2 minutes ago, inebriated said:

but i'm saying that what happened in ac34 is exactly like what happens in every other sport

the people who were convicted cheating did get banned!

you really think that losing their best wing trimmer didn't affect the team?! (plus a few shore crew)

and like Usain Bolt and the rest of the relay team, they got disqualified for the event that they cheated in, the ACWS!

the two situations are so similar you can't make it up!

so if you think that Oracle should have been disqualified from racing in the cup, you're implying that double standards should be in place for very similar events, probably only on the basis that Oracle went on to win the cup!

the funny thing is that Usain Bolt won his first gold medals in 100m and 200m sprints just before the relay, in which a member of his team got caught cheating, following your standards, an asterix should be placed next to those wins, Bolt's first gold medals coinciding with a team member getting caught cheating, does that make you go hhhhmmmmmm?

You either just don't get it, or you're not reading what I've said. Lets start again. Usain Bolt competes in Mens 100m sprints, submits a sample before and after the race, he wins the race, sample comes back clean, he wins and gets a gold medal. Fine, good, fair win.He then competes in the Mens 200 meter sprints, same, he submits a sample before and after, wins the race, sample is clean, gold medal.

He then competes in the Mens 4x100 meter relay as part of the 4 man Jamaican Relay team. All members submit a sample individually, before and after, they win the race,  Nesta Carters sample comes back positive, all 4 of members of the Jamaican Relay Team are disqualified, including Usain Bolt, even though his sample sample was clean. Bolt and his team are disqualified and all 4 men including Bolt are stripped of their mens 4x100 meter gold medal. Bolt, Powell, and Michael Frater all submitted samples which were clean, negative for banned substances, but were still stripped of their mens 4x100 meter Relay medals. Bolt keeps his previous 100 meter and 200 meter sprint medals because he was not competing as part of the Jamaican Relay team at that point. Sorted.

How does this transfer to the AC? Oracle Team USA compete as a team, in the ACWS under this name, under this brand, as do every other AC Team, ETNZ, Oracle Team USA, Softbank Team Japan, Artemis Racing, Groupama Team France. Land Rover BAR Racing. Oracle Team USA are caught Cheating, Oracle Team USA are disqualified, Oracle Team USA are deducted two points in the Americas Cup Match. Oracle Team USA compete in, and win the Americas Cup match, even though they have already cheated.

 

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you failed to respond to the fact that the convicted cheaters WERE banned, and for the event that they cheated in, the whole team got banned

the people who were found to be cheating at the time were outed from oracle, and from what i can see, none of them were with the team ever again.

the lead in the kingpost was so easy to do, the blame was placed on individuals, not the entire team. this is just like Nesta Carter, who was probably doping with the help of one or two doctors only. if the oracle case was a more major incident, like if oracle actually hid hydraulic actuators in their wing, and had them to raise and lower boards then the ACEA would have every right to disqualify them from the competition altogether because the whole team must of been in on it (i'm not too sure on how much of a competition it would be anymore though). One example of this happening would be the Russian team at the 2018 Olympic Games, the majority of the team were found doping, so they disqualified the entire team and the ones who tested positive could compete under the Olympic flag, putting great shame upon their country. if a massive proportion of jamacan sprinters got pinged, we would see a similar thing happen,  you cannot blame the actions of two or three in a team of 100+ on the whole team itself.

you also fail to realise that Nesta Carter's sample was found to be positive in late 2016 and he got pinged in early 2017, nearly 10 years after the fact! i am sure that if he had been caught closer to the incident, he would have been put on a suspension, although he didn't win any medals until around three years after the convicted games anyway.

 

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45 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

 

Not much to show for $US75,000,000:lol:

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29 minutes ago, Rskiff said:

wonder how well it will stand up to a hurricane?

 

It'll probably end up on that church steeple...

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2 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

 

Didn't realise BDA was part of the USA - shouldn't they have a BAR boat up there?

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1 hour ago, rh2600 said:

Didn't realise BDA was part of the USA - shouldn't they have a BAR boat up there?

It was the only thing they could lay their hands on to show for their 75-mil.

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1 hour ago, Indio said:

It was the only thing they could lay their hands on to show for their 75-mil.

yeah, it will be funny when a lerning driver writes off their $2000 car onto it and the boat falls down and in half

the sad thing is that the car will be the most valuable thing to be damaged hahaha

on a serious note, what will be the fate of the ETNZ ac45 test boat?

if this is what is being done to an oracle boat, i wonder if there are any plans for the 45?

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On 3/26/2018 at 1:44 AM, sclarke said:

Blah, blah, blah...  Oracle cheated...

And continue to whine like a little bitch...  Perhaps you should get a hose (I'd recommend a fire hose for you) and rise the sand out of your mangina...  It's been making you irritable for many years now...

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On 3/30/2018 at 7:07 AM, Brutal said:

And continue to whine like a little bitch...  Perhaps you should get a hose (I'd recommend a fire hose for you) and rise the sand out of your mangina...  It's been making you irritable for many years now...

Yet the fact remains. They cheated. So you can take that hose, turn that sum bitch sideways, and stick it straight up your ass!

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So, you guys are still standing atop the dead horse, flailing away...WOW!  I always wondered what not having a life looked like....

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42 minutes ago, pwormwood said:

So, you guys are still standing atop the dead horse, flailing away...WOW!  I always wondered what not having a life looked like....

Nope. We have moved on. But we will never forget, and anyone who tries to deny the facts and say it never happened, will always be called out.

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1 hour ago, sclarke said:

Yet the fact remains. They cheated. So you can take that hose, turn that sum bitch sideways, and stick it straight up your ass!

Always about sticking dick shaped objects up men's asses for you kiwis. 

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1 hour ago, pusslicker said:

Always about sticking dick shaped objects up men's asses for you kiwis. 

So predictable.

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10 hours ago, pusslicker said:

Always about sticking dick shaped objects up men's asses for you kiwis. 

The more you post about it, the more you reveal about your personal predisposition 

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On 3/30/2018 at 7:07 AM, Brutal said:

And continue to whine like a little bitch...  Perhaps you should get a hose (I'd recommend a fire hose for you) and rise the sand out of your mangina...  It's been making you irritable for many years now...

history sucks ya little fag.

Confirmed and convicted cheating. 

Suspicions of other cheating.

Sucks to be a cheater.

Or a whiney little bitch that puts things up your ass and squeals like a pig.

Later.

 

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This irrevelant thread was dead for 4 whole days and then it’s back but has sunken to name calling and suggestions of a self imposed sexual nature between three or four forum members  with obviously a LOT of free time on their hands . 

Nothing new to report , nothing’s changed , time marches on for most everyone else . 

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^

i didn't start the name calling. 

but i'm happy to call out a whiney little newbie bitch.

been lots of other news, and i haven't had time to make a couple of other videos i have in mind.

what was your point? trying to get a few more pages in :)

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2 hours ago, maxmini said:

This irrevelant thread was dead for 4 whole days and then it’s back but has sunken to name calling and suggestions of a self imposed sexual nature between three or four forum members  with obviously a LOT of free time on their hands . 

Nothing new to report , nothing’s changed , time marches on for most everyone else . 

Yet here you are.

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On 4/7/2018 at 1:10 AM, sclarke said:

Yet here you are.

Some people stop to use the the toilet,

Others LIVE in the sewer.

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I see not much has changed round here.

However, on a genuine Oracle note, I watched Iron Man 2 last night - who new Larry Ellison was in it?

mickey-rourke-whiplash.jpg

 

I also spotted Mickey Rourke doing a cameo.

ellison.jpg

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^ Never saw that before. Some really cool footage in there of both boats, those things were demented but amazing. Thanks for posting!

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12 hours ago, random said:

Anybody see the Larry produced movie The Wind Gods?

Well I didn't get too far into it.  What an egotistical prick he is.

Ozymandias_The_Examiner_1818.jpg.092b149fb55906968b98f9411e160553.jpg

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newest video on my little channel.

This is a companion to trimming main,

which showed how beast mode was not about a spinning mainsheet drum.

So where was the work being done? And what was the work being used for? The front grinding station, although not often in shot during coverage, was flat out. Doing what? High speed foil rake adjustments maybe?

 

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On 12/04/2018 at 9:53 AM, random said:

Anybody see the Larry produced movie The Wind Gods?

Well I didn't get too far into it.  What an egotistical prick he is.

Thanks for the link, I hadn't previously watched it. I didn't make it to the end either, it is quite as bad as I had imagined it would be. It was produced by David Ellison but doubtless Larry picked up the tab. Oddly enough Jeremy Irons doesn't list this voiceover on his CV. 

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at https://www.ausleisure.com.au/news/ian-burns-sets-goal-for-ais-to-be-world-leader-in-sport-technology/

America’s Cup-winning engineer Ian Burns has set a goal for the Australian Institute of Sport (AIS) to be the world leader in sport data, technology and innovation after returning home to take up a leading role for Australian sport.

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