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Panoramix

Tour de France à la Voile to be sailed on multihulls?

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According to the local paper they are thinking of going the multihull way : http://www.ouest-france.fr/tour-de-france-la-voile-un-nouveau-bateau-pour-ledition-2015-2700198

 

 

Unfortunately the tour is dying now (just 9 teams this year). That would certainly make it cheaper but are they going to attract amateurs? If you capsize the thing in a place like the chenal du Four, you are in trouble IMHO.

 

 

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There are a lot of amateurs in raids in F18s and such. Presumably they would take up such a challenge. So the M34 really is a flop?

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There are a lot of amateurs in raids in F18s and such. Presumably they would take up such a challenge. So the M34 really is a flop?

I suppose they could change it to a raid and avoid the tricky bits.

 

Yes, there isn't that much media coverage and not many participants.

 

Actually, thinking about it assuming you can put your hands on one boat, one could mount a team with a relatively modest budget (a van, 6 people, 3 on the water the other doing logistics and you rotate 1 or 2 crews once every few races).

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Frankly, I think that the Tourvoile is dead.

 

They lost their DNA, when (due to the M34 costs) they lost the unis and town boats which brought so many young people to ocean racing.

The current 3 boats contest between full pro teams with high budgets and 4 "followers" including 1 high budget pro-team.

 

The trucking from the channel-coast to the Med complemented by PR-awe about 90 NM legs (mind you they did sail non-stop from Granville to Roscoff !! what an achievement !) does not look too good in the sailing public eye.

 

I may be in bad mood, but I am not over-impressed by the Diam 24 circuit either, it just looks as "how to grab money from my sponsor" game for ageing pros. Mixing both may not help at all

 

All sad !

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What happened to the plan for a fleet of Grand Surprises as a secondary, cheaper fleet for the amateurs/unis/less well funded teams?

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What happened to the plan for a fleet of Grand Surprises as a secondary, cheaper fleet for the amateurs/unis/less well funded teams?

Zero entries meant that it was cancelled.

What is the reason ??? Nobody wants to register as an also ran may be ?

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So would it be fair to say that the problem is, once again, that someone has chosen to stuff up a race by moving it to a more expensive class with less widespread appeal?

 

If so, it has to be the 7,893rd time it's happened. When will organisers stick with cheaper, more mainstream boats that actually create viable fleets?

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So would it be fair to say that the problem is, once again, that someone has chosen to stuff up a race by moving it to a more expensive class with less widespread appeal?

 

If so, it has to be the 7,893rd time it's happened. When will organisers stick with cheaper, more mainstream boats that actually create viable fleets?

 

but when that happens a vocal group pipes up shouting they dont want to sail boring boats...

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So would it be fair to say that the problem is, once again, that someone has chosen to stuff up a race by moving it to a more expensive class with less widespread appeal?

 

If so, it has to be the 7,893rd time it's happened. When will organisers stick with cheaper, more mainstream boats that actually create viable fleets?

Yes!

 

 

If they had chosen a boat like the A31, it would have helped but I am not sure if that would have been enough to save the race as it was already in decline. The Farr 30 was already an elitist boat, but at least it was a bit cheaper. IMHO the best years were the JOD35 years.

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So would it be fair to say that the problem is, once again, that someone has chosen to stuff up a race by moving it to a more expensive class with less widespread appeal?

 

If so, it has to be the 7,893rd time it's happened. When will organisers stick with cheaper, more mainstream boats that actually create viable fleets?

 

There you go with your assumptions again

 

The Tour is dying not because of boat selection itself (though they did pick something of a lemon), the Tour is dying because of (in this order)

 

1) Both the new design selection process and then the transition from the Farr 30 to the M34 were bungled by the Tour and the FFV, alienating teams, pissing off suppliers, and letting sponsors down. This includes cost management processes that didn't really work at all, and keep in mind that most entrants (including obviously the student teams) didn't see a need to change from the Farr 30; the change came through because a newly built, 20-year old design F30 would have been almost the cost of a M34. Until you factored in all the work needed to make a M34 fast...and then the prices kept going up...and then...well, it's a story as old as sailing.

 

2) French economy = one of the worst in Western Europe. Seriously bad.

 

3) Multihulll/new monohull rumors for two years now, and no one wants to buy into a fleet when they think it might change very soon.

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So would it be fair to say that the problem is, once again, that someone has chosen to stuff up a race by moving it to a more expensive class with less widespread appeal?

 

If so, it has to be the 7,893rd time it's happened. When will organisers stick with cheaper, more mainstream boats that actually create viable fleets?

 

but when that happens a vocal group pipes up shouting they dont want to sail boring boats...

 

And if a class listens to a vocal 5% instead of getting the real story and acting on what the majority wants, they deserve to fail. But the Tour will come back; it's got a great name, a great history, and really does mean something to the french sporting public - France just needs a recovery and an easier boat to deal with.

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2) French economy = one of the worst in Western Europe. Seriously bad.

 

Come on, I know that it is bad but it is nowhere like Spain, Portugal or Ireland (though I've heard that the Irish are doing better now).

 

The decline started well before the M34. The Farr30 was already an elitist boat and the amateurs were already slowly going away in the noughties.

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Clean, I think maybe you are too far away from the core of this.

 

Under the current proposal the Diam 24 will not do any offshore legs, so no real "Tour de France" at all. But some big name skippers.

 

The Grand Surprise idea was good but seriously fucked up, as you were obliged to buy into the Team Winds charter package and could not compete with any other boat. Student teams perked up interest till they saw the stupid cost model, throwing away about €25,000 in charter fees. We tried to tell them, but deaf ears. Student teams wanted to buy second hand boats, then add what their budgets allowed in terms of sails, kit, training etc, and at the end could sell the boat. Big time bungle.

 

The whole M34 process was, as you suggest, also mishandled and badly sold. Too ambitious by far, but then France thought that as Germany's #1 buddy, they were immune from the economic crisis ..... And the boat, from the start, was so far over the top of what competitors could possibly afford. Sadly it bust Archambault in the process. Jean-Pierre Kelbert is pleased the JPK 998 didn't get selected.

 

The Tour can certainly play the Pro/Am card, but not on M34s, nor now on Farr 30s. Perhaps they should bite the bullet and do a Pro Tour on the M34s, with an amateur Tour, missing out the offshore legs, on J/80s. Lots of boats available. Already used in many student regattas. Trail them to the ports easily. Budget becomes possible?

 

It would be tragic to see the event just trickle away into obscurity. The Diam 24 idea stinks.

 

Discuss.

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So would it be fair to say that the problem is, once again, that someone has chosen to stuff up a race by moving it to a more expensive class with less widespread appeal?

 

If so, it has to be the 7,893rd time it's happened. When will organisers stick with cheaper, more mainstream boats that actually create viable fleets?

 

There you go with your assumptions again

 

The Tour is dying not because of boat selection itself (though they did pick something of a lemon), the Tour is dying because of (in this order)

 

1) Both the new design selection process and then the transition from the Farr 30 to the M34 were bungled by the Tour and the FFV, alienating teams, pissing off suppliers, and letting sponsors down. This includes cost management processes that didn't really work at all, and keep in mind that most entrants (including obviously the student teams) didn't see a need to change from the Farr 30; the change came through because a newly built, 20-year old design F30 would have been almost the cost of a M34. Until you factored in all the work needed to make a M34 fast...and then the prices kept going up...and then...well, it's a story as old as sailing.

 

2) French economy = one of the worst in Western Europe. Seriously bad.

 

3) Multihulll/new monohull rumors for two years now, and no one wants to buy into a fleet when they think it might change very soon.

 

Assumptions? I asked a question in the first sentence. I then emphasised that it was a question and not a statement by saying "if so" in the second line. How in the world does that get interpreted as an assumption? Yes, I had a strong suspicion about why the race may have been losing support, but there is a big difference between a suspicion and an assumption.

 

Did you also not notice that your reply basically indicated that the answer to my question was pretty much "yes". You say that they DID go to a more expensive class with less widespread appeal, and it DID hurt the race - so why didn't you just say "yes" to my question instead of once again making a personal attack?

 

Sure, the "bungles" that you allege with the new boat may have been an issue, but the risk of such "bungles" is high enough to make it one of the reasons against moving to a new boat. The fact that transition from one design to another is rarely seamless is "a story as old as sailing" and therefore IMHO should be factored in when such changes are considered and assessed.

 

Maybe you should stop attacking people and instead allow for the fact that some of your readers have been sailing races in fast and slow craft, winning titles, running growing classes for adults and kids, and working in the industry for a lot longer than you have, and therefore we have the right to discuss things and ask questions without personal attacks from you.

 

Years ago, when you were by your own admission just getting into things like skiffs and similar performance sailing, you wrote some nice pieces about the joy of it all. It's a pity that seems to have been replaced by such a negative attitude so often.

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^^ Uh oh.

 

 

Aaaaanyway, why are the M34s so unloved? Excuse the ignorance.

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Expensive, not a great build quality, tippy, nowhere near as robust as the Mumm/Farr, etc.

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^^ Uh oh.

 

 

Aaaaanyway, why are the M34s so unloved? Excuse the ignorance.

I think it boils down to the fact that it is expensive and there were design/manufacturing issues when it was launched.

 

I think that they should go back to basics and use a small boat that is a genuine production coastal boat. The A27 could fit the bill. Limit the crew by weight not bodies so that the girls have a fair chance. No carbon no non sense and let the guys who are best at navigation, local weather and sailing quick win. The racing will be exciting with the occasional leg when an amateur crew beat the pros.

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Right now, they need to look back at the origins and the success of the event. Towns, départements, regions, colleges, universities were the entrants, who then rounded up mainly local or regional sponsorship. The "Pro" event is much newer, but I believe the 2 could happily work together. The A27 would still bust the budgets of student or amateur teams. You need a boat with numbers built, available for purchase or charter, hence my suggestion of the J/80.

 

My son at Plymouth Uni, and a local student team here in St Malo wanted to do it this year, but the Grand Surprise package was cock.

 

Things move on, so new ideas are needed, but I cannot see a Diam 24 event, aimed at and controlled by IMOCA skippers and the like as being a runner.

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There sure would be lot of people doing it in J80 and that would surely save the race. For a start the SNBSM would probably manage to put together 2 entries! When you see the size of the J80 fleet, they surely would reach 50 boats races after a couple of editions.

It would be a bit of a shame to loose the offshore legs though J80 are cat B so I suppose that they could trailer the hard bits only if the weather is bad..


The organisers are into professional sports though, not sure that they would find the idea of so many amateurs appealing.

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I am 100% with CMS, very good analysis !

 

I did not know the charter fee from TeamWinds: this is ridiculous.

The M 30 had, if I am not wrong, a built in advantage as K-Yachting had a significant fleet to offer for charter and no other choice than meeting the client's price - boats being well amortized as well, while the class was dying: i.e cheap 2nd hand boats

Selections and JOD 35 were ownedby the organisers and rented a little above cost. Teams could have a boat for one year at little more than a year credit cost without any commitment for following years.

 

Now to answer Clean:

1/ I am unsure - but may be wrong - on economic woes influence in this specific case, sponsorship of students teams here belongs to the recruitment budget of large concerns, no surprise that the top unis and schools were getting the top budgets, those were the guys and girls these companies wanted to seduce. What better way, too, than a tough race to pick the born leaders ? This was an additional attraction for these large companies.

 

2/ I don't think that the boat performance is of paramount importance.

In the early days of the Tour I had been surprised to see younger (than me) racing crews jump on the project and accepting to race truly slow and obsolete boats such as the Ecume de Mer, First 30, Rush (Jeanneau,O'Day H.T), when they were racing fancy tonners a year before.

It proved successful: they gained in stature and autonomy and the Tour produced most of the top French pros of the 80's and 90's from Figaro to America's Cup and for the industry too ! That list is endless.

 

The tour killed itself when it forgot its baseline: "breeding the great sailors of tomorrow", Allowing the top pro-teams in, might seem a great public attention grabber but not only did that fail, it killed the spirit.

 

Losing the passion gained by successful students, the industry will now loose the racing owners of tomorrow.

e.g: in my small corner of the world now dominated by stinky-pots, the only buyers of sailing boats are succesful execs who "have raced the Tour" in their student years!

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I think that we are three to agree.

 

Despite the J80 being a dayboat, it is well ballasted, may be they could avoid trailering the boat too much with adequate safety rules. The Y flag could become "PFD on + no hiking with legs (or other boady parts) outside the footprint of the boat".

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The J/80 could certainly do some passage races, but the ease of trailing allows missing out any dodgy bits, keeping the circus moving from town to town. The budget for a J/80 campaign would, I am convinced, see lots of universities and colleges enter, but also towns, sailing schools, yacht clubs and more.

 

Keep the pro circuit? If there are enough entries, I see no reason why the programs for the two classes could not interlink well and benefit everyone.

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It would be an even more awesome event if it was sailed on multis.

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Diam 24 it is. Official announcement.

http://web-engage.augure.com/pub/link/344078/0505360720046671406465861703-aso.fr.html

 

 

In brief :

v In 2015, the Diam 24 will come on stage
v A controled budget
v A new race format
v A show closer from the public
The multihull revolution
After the Ecume de Mer (1978), the First 30 (1979 to 1981), the Rush Royale (1982 and 1983), the Sélection 37 (1984 to 1991), the JOD 35 (1992 to 1998), the Farr 30 (1999 to 2010) and the M34 (2011 to 2014), from next summerm 2105, the Diam 24 will be the new boat of the Tour de France à la Voile,
Like the previous boats, the Diam 24 is one-design boat. But the true revolution that A.S.O chose to establish lies in the fact that the Diam 24 is a 7.25m trimaran ! This sport boat was designed by VPLP and built in Port La Forêt (France) by Vianney Ancelin. Since its launch at the Paris Boat Show in December last year it has already seduced many renowned French sailors.
A circuit has also been created including various events like the Grand Prix Guyader, the Grand Prix de l’Ecole Navale, and the Raid Emeraude in Saint-Lunaire. Michel Desjoyeaux, François Gabart, Vincent Riou and Sidney Gavignet are just some of the the first people who have shown their interest in this multihull.
A controlled budget for easier access to the event
The Tour de France à la Voile needed a new breath of life. For a few months, A.S.O has led a large survey with stakeholders from the sailing industry (skippers, crew members, project managers, institutions, partners…). They had three priorities : firstly, to offer a boat that would make the participation to the event much cheaper. Secondly, to choose a one-design boat which also has a circuit, which means a boat that has a life outside of the Tour de France à la Voile. « We wished to start from a blank page in order to have a maximum of opportunities, without closing any doors. The budget for taking part in the event quickly appeared to be the key point, as well as the desire of many competitors to move to multihull racing, for more speed and more spectacular show on the water. The Diam 24 costs about 55 000 euros ready to sail, which is one third of the cost of the M34, and it entirely fullfils the two objectives. It offers a perfect budget positioning, with the opportunity to attract a large range of teams, from the corinthian to the elite crew. For the top teams, it will be a complementery platform to their main projects, on an event that they enjoy, and that offers their partners great possibilities in multiple places, both on the race village and from an hospitality point of view, the Tour de France à la Voile being, through its format, a summer tour along the french coasts », declared Jean-Baptiste Durier rhis morning in Nice.
Closer from the public
The Diam 24 is a fun, fast and spectacular boat, and on top of that, it will sail closer to the public. It was one of A.S.O main objectives since they bought the Tour de France à la Voile in 2012. To reinforce the « show » aspect of the Tour de France à la Voile. The idea is to set an itinerary around France, with some iconic places of the French coast, like the « Château du Taureau », in Roscoff, or the island of Porquerolles near Hyères. « We will alternate two types of races in each stop. Some coastal races, on Day 1, that we can adapt depending of the weather conditions, and that will showcase the wonders of our coasts, and some inshore races, on Day 2 on a sailing stadium mode. Our will is the bring the show closer from the shore and from the spectators, and to create an entertainment program on land so that the public can understand what’s going on on the water, with a very well thought out visual and audio background. People like multihull sailing because it can be very spectacular. That’s also what guided our choice », said the director of the Tour de France à la Voile (name ?) The Diam 24 will have 3 or 4 crew onboard and can be lifted out of the water and dismantled in an hour only. From a logistical point of view, it is a perfect format for the Tour.
A mix of top sailors and corinthian sailors, the essence of the Tour de France à la Voile
The teams of the Tour de France à la Voile have welcomed the Diam 24 announcement with enthusiasm. They know this is the opportunity to revive the sporting aspect of the event, following on from the large reorganisation operated on land for the last two years (increase of the Race Village, creation of a set of publicity cars and of an entertainment hub on the beaches). Some key sailing figures who haven’t taken part for many years could consider coming back along the french coasts , like Michel Desjoyeaux, François Gabart, or Vincent Riou, who won everything this year on the Diam 24 circuit. « The future of sailing, in general, is the multihull. I am absolutely sure of that », explained François Gabart. And for Michel Desjoyeaux, « the objective is to have more boats and more sailors on the Tour de France à la Voile. The Diam 24 complies with the necessary flexibility on a mobile event along the French coasts, taking into account the timing priorities for the entertainment on land ! »
The Corinthians are also very intertested by the new series that should keep developing this year. Paul Adam, President of the Ligue Haute Normandie who initiated the Normandy-Acerel M34 campaign, who just won the Corinthian ranking this year, is supporting the Tour’s evolution : « The Tour de France à la Voile needed to be rejunevated. We are heading torwards a more attractive type of sailing, that is also a show for the spectators. The lower financial conditions will encourage the smaller teams to come back to the event ». The new course will be revealed during the Nautic – Paris Boat Show in december, as well as a few competitors already involved for the next edition. The objective is to offer a diverse fleet, gathering various families of sailing, olympic sailors, offshore sailors, professionnal crew members, and corinthian teams. The Tour de France à la Voile is en route towards its future on three hulls !
Quotes from :
Michel Desjoyeaux skipper :
« The Tour is a model in french crew handed sailing. Many young sailors have grown to top level racing and became pro after sailing on the Tour. Multihull sailing is clearly part of the french sailing and technological culture, and now it is finally going international ! It’s great gather the two and revive this major event. The objective is to have more boats and more sailors. The Diam 24 complies with the necessary flexibility on a mobile event along the french coasts, taking into account the timing priorities for the entertainment on land ».
Vincent Riou, skipper of the 60’ monohull PRB :
« The Diam 24 is a light and fun sport boat. It’s full-on and it’s going to be a great show. I was looking for another boat on top of my 60 foot monohull. It’s an easy campaign to take on. The Diam 24 series has just started and it already attracts top people. And the Tour de France à la Voile is also an institution. I think the Diam 24 can rejunevate the event. It will be a great campaign to do the Tour on a multihull. I just love the idea ! »
Daniel Souben, skipper of Courrier Dunkerque 3 :
« We are at a time when the Tour has some difficulties despite the level of the competitors and the excellent media cover. We don’t have enough teams. So we can’t refuse the opportunity to rejunevate. The solution they found should allow attract many teams to the event and facilitate the mix of professionnals and corinthians. It will be a different format as we are going to lose the offshore legs. But it will bring some new competitors including a younger generation and some people from the multihull world. The Diam 24 in the Tour is a good thing, from a communication point of view, but also from the budget point of view. It’s definitely worth trying ».
Eric Hainneville, President of the Diam 24 class :
« The introduction of the Diam 24 as the new boat for the Tour de France à la Voile is a bit stressful for me, as a president of the Class. The bar is set high right from the start. We just want to be good enough so that no one is disappointed. As a sailor, it’s a fantastic project. I think it’s a recognition of the multihull as a proper racing platform. Sailing a multihull requires real sailing abilities. The America’s Cup helped a lot in this recognition. With Vianney Ancelin, we wanted a sensationnal boat, for a reasonnable price, simple and easily accessible. It was a real challenge. This boat will attract other types of sailors, both on the pro and on the corinthian side. It will give the Tour de France à la Voile a new dimension. I think it’s fantastic. There is a real mutual trust amongst us, the sailors, the class, and the race organisers ».
Nicolas Honor, project manager of Oman Sail :
« The fact that A.S.O is changing the boat is a good thing. Unfortunately today, the entries are decreasing every year on the Tour de France à la Voile. A.S.O had the courage to do something about it. Regarding Oman Sail, our project is more offshore sailing orientated, but we also have our MOD70 so the Diam 24 could be an interesting platform for us. We can readjust our omani sailors training program. We are more than 50% sure to do the Tour de France à la Voile again next year. But there are still some question marks because the Oman Sail program for next year hasn’t been established yet for the various circuits we are involved in. In brief, if we have an opportunity to do the Tour on a Diam 24, we will take it ».
Sidney Gavignet, skipper of Team Oman Sail :
« Moving to multihull is simply in the mood of our time. This change was necessary. To find a more affordable platform is logical considering the economic situation. I think the competition will be homogeneous. The big teams will prepare like big teams do and then we will have some sailors who don’t come from offshore sailing but from the sport multihull. I trust A.S.O to make the right choices ».
François Gabart, skipper of Macif :
« I did my first Tour in 2002 or 2003 and at the time I was sailing on Tornado. On the Tour I discovered offshore sailing, nightime racing, sailing with the tides and current… But I thought monohulls were a bit slow. AT the time I remember I told myself that it would be great to do it on small multihulls ! Therefore I think the evolution of the Tour de France à la Voile is very positive. And the future of sailing in general is multihulls. I bought a Diam 24 before even knowing it would be the new Tour boat. It’s an excellent boat, very accessible, both from a budget point of view and from a technical aspect. The Tour will be more popular, for the public and for the competitors. The mix has always been the Tour’s strength ! »

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Expensive, not a great build quality, tippy, nowhere near as robust as the Mumm/Farr, etc.

And the Mumm 30's didn't suffer from any of the above?? ........... Really?

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So they event has changed from sailing around France with a bit of trucking, to trucking around France with a bit of sailing. Have I got that right?

 

What a shame.

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Sad, desperately sad !

 

A once major racing event turned into a summer-beach spectacle for mercenaries.

 

I can already hear the over-inflated screams of the "commentator" through the loud-speakers, while vacationers lick just one other ice-cream.

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Well.... I think that we need to nominate CMS to organise a Corinthian tour on J80s. :ph34r:

 

It is important to remember that the tour voile was bought in 2012 by ASO - owners of the cycling tour de France - and that they had tried to sue to death the tour de France à la voile during the 90s.

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Sad, desperately sad !

 

A once major racing event turned into a summer-beach spectacle for mercenaries.

 

I can already hear the over-inflated screams of the "commentator" through the loud-speakers, while vacationers lick just one other ice-cream.

 

So totally agree, and as ever the so called professionals have killed off yet another branch of the sport.

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Sad, desperately sad !

 

A once major racing event turned into a summer-beach spectacle for mercenaries.

 

I can already hear the over-inflated screams of the "commentator" through the loud-speakers, while vacationers lick just one other ice-cream.

 

So totally agree, and as ever the so called professionals have killed off yet another branch of the sport.

To be fair you can't just blame the pro's, its the syndicate/team heads that decided they wanted to throw money at an event in order to win. The pro's just turned up and went sailing.

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Sad, desperately sad !

 

A once major racing event turned into a summer-beach spectacle for mercenaries.

 

I can already hear the over-inflated screams of the "commentator" through the loud-speakers, while vacationers lick just one other ice-cream.

 

So totally agree, and as ever the so called professionals have killed off yet another branch of the sport.

To be fair you can't just blame the pro's, its the syndicate/team heads that decided they wanted to throw money at an event in order to win. The pro's just turned up and went sailing.

 

well, when you look at the latest set-up and who is involved and who has just 'happened' to 'buy' some of the boats then it's visibly an extremely cosy little commerical arrangement amongst a few people. And why a tri? Don't expect this to last long.

 

 

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Sad, desperately sad !

 

A once major racing event turned into a summer-beach spectacle for mercenaries.

 

I can already hear the over-inflated screams of the "commentator" through the loud-speakers, while vacationers lick just one other ice-cream.

 

So totally agree, and as ever the so called professionals have killed off yet another branch of the sport.

To be fair you can't just blame the pro's, its the syndicate/team heads that decided they wanted to throw money at an event in order to win. The pro's just turned up and went sailing.

 

well, when you look at the latest set-up and who is involved and who has just 'happened' to 'buy' some of the boats then it's visibly an extremely cosy little commerical arrangement amongst a few people. And why a tri? Don't expect this to last long.

I'm not defending them, just trying to play devils advocate (for a change) ;) but yes, it does look like a convenient arrangement and yes, it probabley won't last long in that format.

 

I have no idea on how they could return the event back to its former self, or even if they can. Its another sailing event suffering a sad demise, the same as the Admirals cup etc.

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Sad, desperately sad !

 

A once major racing event turned into a summer-beach spectacle for mercenaries.

 

I can already hear the over-inflated screams of the "commentator" through the loud-speakers, while vacationers lick just one other ice-cream.

 

So totally agree, and as ever the so called professionals have killed off yet another branch of the sport.

To be fair you can't just blame the pro's, its the syndicate/team heads that decided they wanted to throw money at an event in order to win. The pro's just turned up and went sailing.

 

well, when you look at the latest set-up and who is involved and who has just 'happened' to 'buy' some of the boats then it's visibly an extremely cosy little commerical arrangement amongst a few people. And why a tri? Don't expect this to last long.

 

I agree with Hugh, the pros are no stranger to that.

They see it as a way to downsize their sponsors budget while maintaining their salary-share, better to try and save oneself than risk losing any money the sponsor may have left.

The supportive quotes (above) are unsurprisingly coming from "big names" who struggle from guest appearance to guest appearance to meet thir mortgages deadline;

The sports daily which owns the race as well as the cycling TDF banks on their public image to hope and sell the tour and its commercial village.

 

Hugh's comment, just make think of the old days when the great were sailing their FD's from Normandy to Alderney for fun.

Jockeys now showing off on secluded ring, where are the"sailors" ?

 

Sounds as if I am becoming a "retirement home" pundit :) :)

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Sad, desperately sad !

 

A once major racing event turned into a summer-beach spectacle for mercenaries.

 

I can already hear the over-inflated screams of the "commentator" through the loud-speakers, while vacationers lick just one other ice-cream.

 

So totally agree, and as ever the so called professionals have killed off yet another branch of the sport.

To be fair you can't just blame the pro's, its the syndicate/team heads that decided they wanted to throw money at an event in order to win. The pro's just turned up and went sailing.

 

well, when you look at the latest set-up and who is involved and who has just 'happened' to 'buy' some of the boats then it's visibly an extremely cosy little commerical arrangement amongst a few people. And why a tri? Don't expect this to last long.

 

Totally agree. Looks and sounds like a desperate move from a small circle of French professionals to keep a little gig going to pay the rent, and ASO bought into it.

 

Le Tour de France à la Voile est mort, but the Diam 24 means we can't add "Vive le Tour de France à la Voile",

 

Is there an organization out there capable of reviving the original spirit (including restrictions on professional sailors)? I hope so, but am pessimistic.

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I always felt that the student and amateur teams, full of enthusiasm, and often pretty damn good, actually attracted the bigger names. Other events can get it right. Look at the Figaro circuit, the Mini circuit, and even the Class 40s. Get enough boats on the race course and I guarantee you the top French sailors will get involved.

 

This current situation stinks as badly as the fucked up Grand Surprise idea.

 

Event over.

 

Time for a new one.

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Famous yacht designer and gifted yacht racer Daniel Andrieu posted the following comment on sailing news website Sea-Sail-Surf

 

"Tour de France or beach circus (tournée des plages) ? In respect to the "Tours" (Sailing and Cycling) a change of name is of circumstance. This is a little like if ASO (organisers of both Tours) decided to get the Tour (the great one) raced on a push-scooter... "

 

B)

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^ "Tournée des Plages" Exactement!

 

A nice low-stress summer tour to cash in entry fees, smile at the crowds and sleep in the best hotels while the shore crews move the boats from one beach to the other.

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By coincidence, this news came through while I was watching the TdF on TV, looking at the enthusiasm that it generates, and wondering how the lessons could be applied to sailing. It seems that a lot of the appeal of the real Tour is that people can understand and relate to because just about everyone has ridden a bike, the gear is essentially very simple, and the gear the pros use is effectively the same as the gear a weekend warrior or workday commuter can use.*

 

Is the new boat is something fewer people can relate to, or are there so many hire cats in France that many people can say "ah, it's like the Hobie my next door neighbour hired last summer" or something like that? Or will they be harder to relate to than the old monos that created the Tour?

 

All the books and mags about the history of the "bike Tour" indicates that while it is a commercial event it has always been driven by passion for the sport and a passion for the history of the event as it evolved. The changes to the "sailing Tour" seem to indicate they don't have the same sort of passion for the history.

 

An old copy of a survey of perceptions of sport among the French puts sailing right near the top in values such as elegance, dynamism, authenticity, audacity and serenity. Will an inshore event fit that perception? Or is it just going to make it easier to run a sponsor's caravan and VIP suites?

 

By the way, do any of SA's francophone readers know where I can find a link a census or survey showing the participation levels of different sports in France?

 

 

* Before anyone says it, I know Tour bikes are not your department-story Huffy. But the UCI rules mean that the Tour riders use the same sort of gear as hack Masters racers like me, and the look and overall design have changed very, very little in decades.

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Sad, desperately sad !

 

A once major racing event turned into a summer-beach spectacle for mercenaries.

 

I can already hear the over-inflated screams of the "commentator" through the loud-speakers, while vacationers lick just one other ice-cream.

 

So totally agree, and as ever the so called professionals have killed off yet another branch of the sport.

To be fair you can't just blame the pro's, its the syndicate/team heads that decided they wanted to throw money at an event in order to win. The pro's just turned up and went sailing.

 

well, when you look at the latest set-up and who is involved and who has just 'happened' to 'buy' some of the boats then it's visibly an extremely cosy little commerical arrangement amongst a few people. And why a tri? Don't expect this to last long.

 

Totally agree. Looks and sounds like a desperate move from a small circle of French professionals to keep a little gig going to pay the rent, and ASO bought into it.

 

Le Tour de France à la Voile est mort, but the Diam 24 means we can't add "Vive le Tour de France à la Voile",

 

Is there an organization out there capable of reviving the original spirit (including restrictions on professional sailors)? I hope so, but am pessimistic.

 

This sort of thing makes me wonder whether we would be better off with an entire international organisation for "grass roots" amateur sailors. The way communication works these days it's fairly easy to generate something like a loose association or working group; it may not be enough to run a new Tour but it could represent amateur sailing effectively.

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Well this would not be the first event, class or measurement rule that died or decayed due to organisers pandering to an elite inner circle (who then moved on) while ignoring the interests of the main stream. Sailboards, IOR, F40, M32 come to mind.

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By the way, do any of SA's francophone readers know where I can find a link a census or survey showing the participation levels of different sports in France?

 

This is sportspeople by number of club members :

 

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sport_en_France#Nombre_de_pratiquants_et_nombre_de_licenci.C3.A9s

 

Cycling does not appear but it is skewed as there are two "federations", one for racing cyclists and one for touring cyclists whereas the sailing federation includes everythiong from RC models to offshore racing..

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By the way, do any of SA's francophone readers know where I can find a link a census or survey showing the participation levels of different sports in France?

This is sportspeople by number of club members :

 

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sport_en_France#Nombre_de_pratiquants_et_nombre_de_licenci.C3.A9s

 

Cycling does not appear but it is skewed as there are two "federations", one for racing cyclists and one for touring cyclists whereas the sailing federation includes everythiong from RC models to offshore racing..

To add on Panoramix figures: there were 197826 sailboats government-registered in France in 2013 (from dinghies to big yachts) - 2138 new ones bought in France in that year, while 11081 older ones changed hands.

 

http://www.developpement-durable.gouv.fr/IMG/pdf/plaisqqc2013.pdf

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Expensive, not a great build quality, tippy, nowhere near as robust as the Mumm/Farr, etc.

Gotcha. Sounds like a bit of a design study fail... The Right boat for the job seems to remain up for debate. But as a lover of monohulls, newly christened on cats, I have to say with more and more races considering the multi route, I get less and less interested.

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Expensive, not a great build quality, tippy, nowhere near as robust as the Mumm/Farr, etc.

Gotcha. Sounds like a bit of a design study fail... The Right boat for the job seems to remain up for debate. But as a lover of monohulls, newly christened on cats, I have to say with more and more races considering the multi route, I get less and less interested.

 

There is a great recipe for insuring that a new One-Design/class project is a total fail:

 

Involve the French sailing federation and its numerous "committees" !

 

e.g:

- many moons ago the "Laser" is off to a rocket start, sailing federation does not like the single builder concept nor the fact that it is designed and administered the other side of the Atlantic : they push a 505 builder to launch a pale copy the "X 4", which they claim is a big improvement: result: total fail !

 

- Some 10 years ago the Beneteau First Class 8 is the N°1 class in France,, 80 boats on champs start lines, many young club teams shining on cheap boats thanks to a buioyant 2nd hand market. "Federation" cancels the boat status and push Beneteau to work from their own ideas and launch the First Class 7.5. Who has ever heard about it ? The crowds move to the J80 which, all on itself, becomes the most active class. yet an other fail.

 

-Guess who runs the M34 class ? the French Federation which drew the design guidelines and forced it, before it was even launched, against existing sound projects.

 

No surprise that some frogs are moody..

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I always felt that the student and amateur teams, full of enthusiasm, and often pretty damn good, actually attracted the bigger names. Other events can get it right. Look at the Figaro circuit, the Mini circuit, and even the Class 40s. Get enough boats on the race course and I guarantee you the top French sailors will get involved.

 

This current situation stinks as badly as the fucked up Grand Surprise idea.

 

Event over.

 

Time for a new one.

 

cms,

I have sent you a pm.

 

rob

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Latest presser

 

Over thirty boats entered for the Tour de France à la Voile 2015

 

In brief :

- Over thirty teams will compete in the Tour de France à la Voile 2015

- The 38th edition will take place from 3rd to 26th July

- A new race format : stadium racing and coastal expedition races

- 9 Acts between Dunkirk and Nice

- A lot of media content to download in this press release

 

It’s been four months since the finish of the last edition in Nice and the annoucement of the Tour de France à la Voile new boat, the Diam 24. And the trimaran builder, Vianney Ancelin, has had his order book full. Furthermore, the entry list for the 2015 edition has been filled in just a few hours. A big success for Amaury Sport Organisation (A.S.O) which aimed to gather a large fleet with this new Diam 24 trimaran. The 31 entries have been revealed today at the Nautic (Paris Boat Show) and the race director Jean-Baptiste Durier has announced the line-up and the venues of what is set to be an remarkable edition.

 

An historical line-up

It has been more than seven years (July 2007) since the Tour de France à la Voile has had such a large line-up. « This enthusiasm is reflected by the amazing momentum following the announcement of the new format », says Jean-Baptiste Durier. They will be 31 teams to take part in this first edition on a Diam 24. Beyou, Cammas, Guichard, Lemonchois, Riou, Rogues, Seguin, Stamm and Tabarly are amongst the skippers who didn’t want to miss out. The title holder Daniel Souben, will also be back, with Thomas Coville. Aside those renowned skippers, there will be some female sailors like Anne-Claire Le Berre and Laure Caucanas, some other classes specialists (Bérenger, Moriceau, Rogues) and some enthusiastic Corinthians. Damien Seguin will lead a disabled sailing project. Whilst the reflexions on the change of boat were still in their early stages, A.S.O was already aiming for a varied line-up. In 2015, the whole family of sailing will be gathered together in this Tour, and it goes even beyond with the double world freeride skiing champion Aurélien Ducroz.

 

A show for the general public, on land and on the water

 

The spectators will enjoy some high level racing on the water, as all these sailors want to write their name in the history book of the race. And the public will be closer from the action than ever. The Diam 24 will « take the spectacle closer to the shore, and therefore to the public », said Jean-Etienne Amaury, president of A.S.O during the announcement today. The stadium racing will be set right in front of the beach or in front of the pier to offer a perfect grandstand. The cities where the Tour de France à la Voile will stop are very enthusiastic about the race format revolution. The idea is to make the show more accessible to the general public. In each town, one day will be dedicated to the short and spectacular stadium racing, with live commentary and music. And the other day will see some coastal expedition races to showcase some iconic parts of the French coast. On land, the Tour de France à la Voile will offer more entertainement than ever throughout the Race Village and beyond, with concerts, beach attractions, and event-branded cars full of goodies. Over the 9 Acts of the 2015 edition, the Diam 24 will be either berthed in the port or lifted out of the water in a public paddock area that will give everyone the opportunity to meet the crew and get as close as possible to the boats.

 

 

9 Acts between Dunkirk and Nice

 

The next edition will be made of 9 Acts, and the fleet of the Diam 24 will visit the three maritimes seaboards (the English Channel, the Atlantic, and the Mediterranean). The event will start in Dunkirk, where the Tour will stop for the 30th time, whilst the last Act will be set in Nice. In the meantime, the skippers will compete in Fécamp, Roscoff, Pornichet, Les Sables d’Olonne, Roses, Gruissan and Marseille. The Tour de France à la Voile 2015 will be spread over three weeks from 3rd July to 26th July.

 

 

Entry list of the Tour de France à la Voile 2015:

 

- 30 CORSAIRES, skipper: Alexia Barrier

- ARMOR LUX – COMPTOIR DE LA MER, skipper: Erwan Tabarly

- BEIJAFLORE TEAM, skipper: Nicolas Bérenger

- CHEMINÉES POUJOULAT, skipper: Bernard Stamm

- COMBIWEST, skipper: Frédéric Guilmin

- COURRIER CHOC D’IXELLES, skipper: Antoine Carpentier

- DEFI YCSL, skipper: Benoît Champanhac

- DIAM IS GIRLS BEST FRIEND, Laure Caucanas

- DYNAMIQUE VOILE, skipper: Emeric Dary et Thomas Cardrin

- FONDATION FDJ – DES PIEDS ET DES MAINS, skipper: Damien Seguin

- GDF SUEZ, skipper: Sébastien Rogues

- GRANDEUR NATURE, skipper: Frédéric Duthil

- GROUPAMA, skipper: Franck Cammas

- LATITUDE NEIGE / LONGITUDE MER, skipper: Aurélien Ducroz and Laurent Voiron

- LORINA BOISSONS ARTISANALES, skipper: Bruno Staub

- MAÎTRE COQ, skipper: Jérémie Beyou

- PRB, skipper: Vincent Riou

- PRINCE DE BRETAGNE, skipper: Lionel Lemonchois

- SEA 4 SAIL, skipper: Aymeric Chappellier and Romain Motteau

- SODEBO, skipper: Thomas Coville and Daniel Souben

- TEAM LE BERRE, skipper: Anne-Claire Le Berre

- TECHNEAU, skipper: Arnaud Daval

- WEST COURTAGE – ECOLE NAVALE, skipper: Christian Ponthieu and Simon Moriceau

- Z3PHYR, skipper: Charles Hainneville

- ABSOLUTE DREAMER, skipper TBC

- AGRIVAL, skipper TBC

- OMANSAIL, skipper TBC

- SPINDRIFT BLACK, skipper Yann Guichard

- SPINDRIFT WHITE, skipper TBC

- VANNES AGGLO- GOLFE DU MORBIHAN, skipper TBC

- Sponsor TBC, skipper : Loïc Fequet

 

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sometimes evolution actually works!

 

If excluding younger hopefuls to offer a further spectator sport showcase for the "usual" pros is the right evolution for an endangered species.

 

:ph34r:

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Still not at all sure about this change. Mainly pro teams, so big budgets. No more sailing round the coast of France, and indeed they even double back on themselves once! I heard there will be no more boats available, so entry list closed?

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blah blah blah... TdF without offshore is crap. You would think with a smaller, cheaper boat they would have a ton more than 30 entries. Didn't they used to get 30+ Mumm30s? This is a plan to money in the pockets of the Diam builders.

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Didn't they used to get 30+ Mumm30s?

 

And last year there were nine entries - did you miss that part? And this year they were looking at max 5-6 if they didn't make a change - a number that made it impossible to run the event because the sponsors were all allowed to back out with under 10 teams entered.

 

So their choices were (1) Let it die or (2) make a major change. They chose (2) and kept the TdF breathing. It's great to wish that things were the way they used to be, but wishing is not a solution.

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Frankly, this looks like a hell of a lot of fun. I don't know the nuances, but surely this just opens it up to amateurs. The diam24 guys quote a charter capabillity

 

http://www.diam24onedesign.com/en/louer

 

And more 2nd hand boats will appear over time Im sure. Charter a boat for 6 - 12 months, ship it to your country, practice, ship back to france, race the tour, et voila. Would be a lifetime experience for maybe about $15-20k aud spread each between 3 blokes. Sure you may not be at the top of the fleet but who cares, it would be a blast!

 

I group of my mates and I thougt about chartering a mumm many years ago to do this regatta. Mind you it was after one or two rums... I'll be watching this race unfold in the next few years to see how it unfolds and whether it does open up to the punters a bit more

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Economics, from a Vincent Riou ITW in Voiles et Voiliers:

 

http://www.voilesetvoiliers.com/course-regate/nautic-tour-de-france-a-la-voile-2015-vincent-riou-nouveaute-multicoque-proximite-avec-le-public-budgets-moindres/deliaPreview=1/

 

v&v.com : You said earlier that the shore team could be reduced to one single worker. So , in the end, what kind of budget for a Diam 24 TFV ?

V.R. : As far as I am concerned we are on "additional" expenses: I have to pay the rent for the boat, buy the sails and pay registration fees, but I'm bringing in people who already are my employees... So for PRB we are talking 50 to 100k Euros extra sponsorship. Should we talk about a pro team racing in the TFV and a few early season events, without being involved in another project I would guess that one shall need 200 to 250k Euros.

 

v&v.com : How did PRB react to this new TFV when you suggested entering?

V.R. : Very well. Mostly because one of our problems is to maximise interaction with PRB's clients. We used to do it with the IMOCA in the past , but nowadays the boat is less and less adapted to that, too High tech, truly fragile.

Tour de France actually has the added advantage of travelling which allows bringing in clients from a limited distance

The "sea-resorts" tour aspect was also attractive; PRB did not know the TFV but had experience of the cycling Tour de France and the "publicity caravan" aspect was attractive to them. Given the limited investment this is for them, PRB was easy to convince. It is always the same story! I had already talked about the TFV two years ago, but to go and play with Franck Cammas we were talking 600 to 700k Euro… Much harder to grab PRB's interest!

So, what makes the 2015 TFV a success is a mix of several things: it's new, raced on multihulls, close to the larger public, lower budgets.

 

No surprise that over half of the entries are extensions of existing IMOCA and Figaro campaigns, but what is short change for them sounds a lot for others, 3 weeks lodging in high season, travelling etc...

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The problem of "grandes ecoles" aside, are the figaro sailors not gonna get trounced by inshore specialists, eg F18 and Tornado sailors?

The navigation and endurance (including to parties) skills seem less important than with the old TFV...

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