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port tack

Is the Farr 400 that bad?

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Is this boat that bad? The used prices have dropped like a rock. No buzz at all about them. I understand they are not nearly the boat that the Carkeek 40's or MC 38's are but at the used prices they are at they look like a PHRF bargin.

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The one in SB had a bow extension put on a few months ago, cleaned up the entry and everyone says it's helped the upwind speed (they were always a weapon downwind)

 

Last I heard tooling was sitting out in the desert

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The one in Cleveland is now $249k

 

Think it started at $350k.

 

Must be a very disappointed owner.....

What did they go for new?

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Is this boat that bad?

 

When the designer and the builder stop hyping them after throwing truckloads of pros at the boat, well...

 

...back to the drawing board.

 

I love the rig and deck layout.

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Last I heard tooling was sitting out in the desert

 

To be fair, even if they were building at full capacity, wouldn't the tooling still be "sitting out in the desert"?

 

Technically.

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The Farr 400 is very similar to the other boats mentioned in this thread with one notable exception...it does not have a fixed bowsprit with a dolphin striker.

 

I think a fixed bow-sprit would have made a difference and not because of any performance gains it would offer. The initial demographic for this boat was rich people, really rich people. A really rich person wants a boat that's more like a Grand Prix TP52 than a J/122.

 

My $0.02 from some one who only has about $0.02 to apply to the purchase of any boat let alone a Farr 400

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IMHO these boats are a big gamble for builders and owners. If they do not do well in mixed fleets or become a viable OD class they end up being as easy to sell as used kleenex.

 

I think the builder did ok. As an owner, it is always considered sunk cost. Anyone who goes into a new boat thinking about resale is going to be disappointed.

 

In our case, we got tipped off to the boat as we were basically going to do a custom boat that was essentially the same. This just saved us time and money. We have had fine results in mixed fleets as well, no real complaints.

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IMHO these boats are a big gamble for builders and owners. If they do not do well in mixed fleets or become a viable OD class they end up being as easy to sell as used kleenex.

I think the builder did ok. As an owner, it is always considered sunk cost. Anyone who goes into a new boat thinking about resale is going to be disappointed.

 

In our case, we got tipped off to the boat as we were basically going to do a custom boat that was essentially the same. This just saved us time and money. We have had fine results in mixed fleets as well, no real complaints.

But it's not yellow!

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IMHO these boats are a big gamble for builders and owners. If they do not do well in mixed fleets or become a viable OD class they end up being as easy to sell as used kleenex.

I think the builder did ok. As an owner, it is always considered sunk cost. Anyone who goes into a new boat thinking about resale is going to be disappointed.

 

In our case, we got tipped off to the boat as we were basically going to do a custom boat that was essentially the same. This just saved us time and money. We have had fine results in mixed fleets as well, no real complaints.

I'm not sure that lack of commercial success in anyway means it's a not a great boat. To appeal to a large number of folks means more compromise, and in many ways maybe a less great boat.

 

If commercial success is the only metric, than the Bene 40.7 is a great boat. And based on the opinions expressed in the thread about the loss of CR, that doesn't seem true either

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Having sailed one aggressively I'll say that the Farr 400 is a well built, well laid out, fast, hardcore, cool boat.

 

It seems like people have some feelings one way or another about it but I think that Meridian, Chessie and Santa proved that, when sailed well, they're a great hoat

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The notable reverse spring in the sheer is very handsome, on Lake Erie no other boat has that shark-like silhouette....but half a million bucks for a dayboat with the luxury feel of a table-saw is a tough sell in ANY market....

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IMHO these boats are a big gamble for builders and owners. If they do not do well in mixed fleets or become a viable OD class they end up being as easy to sell as used kleenex.

I think the builder did ok. As an owner, it is always considered sunk cost. Anyone who goes into a new boat thinking about resale is going to be disappointed.

 

In our case, we got tipped off to the boat as we were basically going to do a custom boat that was essentially the same. This just saved us time and money. We have had fine results in mixed fleets as well, no real complaints.

But it's not yellow!

 

You don't know how much I argued to paint it yellow dude.

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Having sailed on a few other boats targeted in this range (I think Seahorse likes to call them the IRC40's) I can say this one is fantastic to sail on and leaves you with no doubt that it can stand up to an offshore fight. None of the others left me feeling nearly as confident.

Having sailed one aggressively I'll say that the Farr 400 is a well built, well laid out, fast, hardcore, cool boat.

It seems like people have some feelings one way or another about it but I think that Meridian, Chessie and Santa proved that, when sailed well, they're a great hoat

 

Yeah, it really should have been yellow.

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All true to a point and pretty much all boats are a tough sell today, but many older racing boats from years past went on to be cruising boats, family day sailors, live-aboards, etc. I know of one boat racing offshore today that pretty much did that whole cycle and came back around to race boat. For these types in this thread, I don'r see this happening. They are going to be racing or sitting.

 

IMHO these boats are a big gamble for builders and owners. If they do not do well in mixed fleets or become a viable OD class they end up being as easy to sell as used kleenex.

 

I think the builder did ok. As an owner, it is always considered sunk cost. Anyone who goes into a new boat thinking about resale is going to be disappointed.

 

In our case, we got tipped off to the boat as we were basically going to do a custom boat that was essentially the same. This just saved us time and money. We have had fine results in mixed fleets as well, no real complaints.

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I like yellow.

 

Boat is fun, a little wet, layout is great. I'd redo the switch panel and the gusher pump.

 

Feels good at 18 knots

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I only saw 17 but indeed lotsa fun.

 

I'd change a few things but nothing crucial. Having the pedestal aft would make for much more working area in the cockpit.

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My old yacht was a cruiser racer that we cruised twice in about 5 years and raced about a hundred races a year, so it may as well have been an out and out racer. It would have been much easier to race.

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IMHO these boats are a big gamble for builders and owners. If they do not do well in mixed fleets or become a viable OD class they end up being as easy to sell as used kleenex.

I think the builder did ok. As an owner, it is always considered sunk cost. Anyone who goes into a new boat thinking about resale is going to be disappointed.

 

In our case, we got tipped off to the boat as we were basically going to do a custom boat that was essentially the same. This just saved us time and money. We have had fine results in mixed fleets as well, no real complaints.

But it's not yellow!

You don't know how much I argued to paint it yellow dude.

You clearly just don't know how much extra the yellow paint would have weighed ;-)

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I have often wondered about Opti sailors doing W/L in the river growing up to race 50 foot boats W/L in the river. I think maybe this is why a bunch of $$$ is going into J/70 racing right now ;)

Kind of a lot of money for a PHRF day sailor.

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I have often wondered about Opti sailors doing W/L in the river growing up to race 50 foot boats W/L in the river. I think maybe this is why a bunch of $$$ is going into J/70 racing right now ;)

Kind of a lot of money for a PHRF day sailor.

 

If all you did was W/L, then sure.

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Actually the past few years has been the opposite. Almost all regattas are adding point to point to the menu, and the only races to consistently bring crowds are the big distance ones like the Mac and Bermuda. Day race regattas by and large are suffering. Look at Screwpile here and KWRW further afield.

 

 

But that's not what my point was. If all you want to do is inshore W/L, then get a small OD boat and go about your merry way. These boats are for more than that.

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Actually the past few years has been the opposite. Almost all regattas are adding point to point to the menu, and the only races to consistently bring crowds are the big distance ones like the Mac and Bermuda. Day race regattas by and large are suffering. Look at Screwpile here and KWRW further afield.

 

 

But that's not what my point was. If all you want to do is inshore W/L, then get a small OD boat and go about your merry way. These boats are for more than that.

My point exactly. You aren't goong to want to do the Mac, Bermuda, Transpac on a Farr 400. It's a W/L PHRF day sailor. Maybe fun for a day long bay tour type race, but you're still spending a fortune to sail PHRF.

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Actually the past few years has been the opposite. Almost all regattas are adding point to point to the menu, and the only races to consistently bring crowds are the big distance ones like the Mac and Bermuda. Day race regattas by and large are suffering. Look at Screwpile here and KWRW further afield.

 

 

But that's not what my point was. If all you want to do is inshore W/L, then get a small OD boat and go about your merry way. These boats are for more than that.

My point exactly. You aren't goong to want to do the Mac, Bermuda, Transpac on a Farr 400. It's a W/L PHRF day sailor. Maybe fun for a day long bay tour type race, but you're still spending a fortune to sail PHRF.

 

Why? Maybe not Bermuda but there's no reason not to take the boat distance racing with the right setup and pre-acknowledged expectations of physical discomfort.

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From looking at the boats and walking around on them, I'd rather do it on the Farr than the Carkeek/MC/Ker...

 

When all these were released around the same time, alot of the comments leaned towards the Farr being more useable offshore, and the designers stated that was part of the brief.

 

But, I'd also do a TransAt on a 22'er....

 

HW

 

 

Actually the past few years has been the opposite. Almost all regattas are adding point to point to the menu, and the only races to consistently bring crowds are the big distance ones like the Mac and Bermuda. Day race regattas by and large are suffering. Look at Screwpile here and KWRW further afield.


But that's not what my point was. If all you want to do is inshore W/L, then get a small OD boat and go about your merry way. These boats are for more than that.


My point exactly. You aren't goong to want to do the Mac, Bermuda, Transpac on a Farr 400. It's a W/L PHRF day sailor. Maybe fun for a day long bay tour type race, but you're still spending a fortune to sail PHRF.

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You aren't goong to want to do the Mac, Bermuda, Transpac on a Farr 400. It's a W/L PHRF day sailor. Maybe fun for a day long bay tour type race, but you're still spending a fortune to sail PHRF.

 

 

GIGAWAT.jpg

 

 

physical discomfort.

 

I found it generally cozy during the Mac race.

 

 

post-8642-0-11794100-1407271177_thumb.jpg

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Actually the past few years has been the opposite. Almost all regattas are adding point to point to the menu, and the only races to consistently bring crowds are the big distance ones like the Mac and Bermuda. Day race regattas by and large are suffering. Look at Screwpile here and KWRW further afield.

 

 

But that's not what my point was. If all you want to do is inshore W/L, then get a small OD boat and go about your merry way. These boats are for more than that.

My point exactly. You aren't goong to want to do the Mac, Bermuda, Transpac on a Farr 400. It's a W/L PHRF day sailor. Maybe fun for a day long bay tour type race, but you're still spending a fortune to sail PHRF.

Why? Maybe not Bermuda but there's no reason not to take the boat distance racing with the right setup and pre-acknowledged expectations of physical discomfort.

Perhaps I should clarify. As a 22 year old hard on would I go for such a ride? Sure. I did crazy shit all the time and did lots of sailing on some pretty uncomfortable boats.

 

Now that I'm older I tend to consider such things from the bill-payer's perspective, so the question becomes; if I had $300K in the boat account, would I buy that thing and (a) sail around the bouts in the land of misfit toys (aka PHRF A) or (B) sail it to Hawaii? Fuck no. That kind of money will pay for a very nice campaign in a real OD class, or a Hawaii ride that has hot showers and would probably correct out on the F400 like an Aldora-type boat. Personally I'd take option (a) because while I'm happy to see all you fuckers at the regatta, I don't need to buy your dinner/plane tickets/hotel rooms. I'll just meet you there. Not that I have that kind of money in the boat account anyway

But that's just me. Not a 1 size fits all sport, which is part of the fun.

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Actually the past few years has been the opposite. Almost all regattas are adding point to point to the menu, and the only races to consistently bring crowds are the big distance ones like the Mac and Bermuda. Day race regattas by and large are suffering. Look at Screwpile here and KWRW further afield.

 

 

But that's not what my point was. If all you want to do is inshore W/L, then get a small OD boat and go about your merry way. These boats are for more than that.

My point exactly. You aren't goong to want to do the Mac, Bermuda, Transpac on a Farr 400. It's a W/L PHRF day sailor. Maybe fun for a day long bay tour type race, but you're still spending a fortune to sail PHRF.

Why? Maybe not Bermuda but there's no reason not to take the boat distance racing with the right setup and pre-acknowledged expectations of physical discomfort.

Perhaps I should clarify. As a 22 year old hard on would I go for such a ride? Sure. I did crazy shit all the time and did lots of sailing on some pretty uncomfortable boats.

 

Now that I'm older I tend to consider such things from the bill-payer's perspective, so the question becomes; if I had $300K in the boat account, would I buy that thing and (a) sail around the bouts in the land of misfit toys (aka PHRF A) or ( B) sail it to Hawaii? Fuck no. That kind of money will pay for a very nice campaign in a real OD class, or a Hawaii ride that has hot showers and would probably correct out on the F400 like an Aldora-type boat. Personally I'd take option (a) because while I'm happy to see all you fuckers at the regatta, I don't need to buy your dinner/plane tickets/hotel rooms. I'll just meet you there. Not that I have that kind of money in the boat account anyway

But that's just me. Not a 1 size fits all sport, which is part of the fun.

I land in the middle age demographic and would give my left nut to join team yellow boat on a ride to Hawaii or Bermuda (in that order). Long live the grey bucket!

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Actually the past few years has been the opposite. Almost all regattas are adding point to point to the menu, and the only races to consistently bring crowds are the big distance ones like the Mac and Bermuda. Day race regattas by and large are suffering. Look at Screwpile here and KWRW further afield.

 

 

But that's not what my point was. If all you want to do is inshore W/L, then get a small OD boat and go about your merry way. These boats are for more than that.

My point exactly. You aren't goong to want to do the Mac, Bermuda, Transpac on a Farr 400. It's a W/L PHRF day sailor. Maybe fun for a day long bay tour type race, but you're still spending a fortune to sail PHRF.

Why? Maybe not Bermuda but there's no reason not to take the boat distance racing with the right setup and pre-acknowledged expectations of physical discomfort.

Perhaps I should clarify. As a 22 year old hard on would I go for such a ride? Sure. I did crazy shit all the time and did lots of sailing on some pretty uncomfortable boats.

 

Now that I'm older I tend to consider such things from the bill-payer's perspective, so the question becomes; if I had $300K in the boat account, would I buy that thing and (a) sail around the bouts in the land of misfit toys (aka PHRF A) or ( B) sail it to Hawaii? Fuck no. That kind of money will pay for a very nice campaign in a real OD class, or a Hawaii ride that has hot showers and would probably correct out on the F400 like an Aldora-type boat. Personally I'd take option (a) because while I'm happy to see all you fuckers at the regatta, I don't need to buy your dinner/plane tickets/hotel rooms. I'll just meet you there. Not that I have that kind of money in the boat account anyway

But that's just me. Not a 1 size fits all sport, which is part of the fun.

I land in the middle age demographic and would give my left nut to join team yellow boat on a ride to Hawaii or Bermuda (in that order). Long live the grey bucket!
No doubt. Give it up, somedude. Until you have a chance to sail on one in a long race, withhold judgment. I'd do a Bermuda or transpac in a second. I'm with Festus. It's a hell a lot more comfortable than my ride and I'd take it to Hawaii if it qualified. And I'm no spring chicken either.

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I land in the middle age demographic and would give my left nut to join team yellow boat on a ride to Hawaii or Bermuda (in that order). Long live the grey bucket!

No doubt. Give it up, somedude. Until you have a chance to sail on one in a long race, withhold judgment. I'd do a Bermuda or transpac in a second. I'm with Festus. It's a hell a lot more comfortable than my ride and I'd take it to Hawaii if it qualified. And I'm no spring chicken either.

Even if we don't paint it yellow?!

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I land in the middle age demographic and would give my left nut to join team yellow boat on a ride to Hawaii or Bermuda (in that order). Long live the grey bucket!

No doubt. Give it up, somedude. Until you have a chance to sail on one in a long race, withhold judgment. I'd do a Bermuda or transpac in a second. I'm with Festus. It's a hell a lot more comfortable than my ride and I'd take it to Hawaii if it qualified. And I'm no spring chicken either.

Even if we don't paint it yellow?!

Even if you don't paint it yellow. I'll keep my eyes closed until I'm on board.

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I land in the middle age demographic and would give my left nut to join team yellow boat on a ride to Hawaii or Bermuda (in that order). Long live the grey bucket!

No doubt. Give it up, somedude. Until you have a chance to sail on one in a long race, withhold judgment. I'd do a Bermuda or transpac in a second. I'm with Festus. It's a hell a lot more comfortable than my ride and I'd take it to Hawaii if it qualified. And I'm no spring chicken either.

Even if we don't paint it yellow?!

And let us know when we're doing a TPac.

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I land in the middle age demographic and would give my left nut to join team yellow boat on a ride to Hawaii or Bermuda (in that order). Long live the grey bucket!

No doubt. Give it up, somedude. Until you have a chance to sail on one in a long race, withhold judgment. I'd do a Bermuda or transpac in a second. I'm with Festus. It's a hell a lot more comfortable than my ride and I'd take it to Hawaii if it qualified. And I'm no spring chicken either.

Even if we don't paint it yellow?!

And let us know when we're doing a TPac.
Fetus will bring the gray bucket.

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ORC Worlds in Kiel Germany

After two races: 2nd place out of 27 boats. One inshore and one offshore race.

I thought you were framing your basement.

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I land in the middle age demographic and would give my left nut to join team yellow boat on a ride to Hawaii or Bermuda (in that order). Long live the grey bucket!

No doubt. Give it up, somedude. Until you have a chance to sail on one in a long race, withhold judgment. I'd do a Bermuda or transpac in a second. I'm with Festus. It's a hell a lot more comfortable than my ride and I'd take it to Hawaii if it qualified. And I'm no spring chicken either.
Even if we don't paint it yellow?!
And let us know when we're doing a TPac.
Fetus will bring the gray bucket.

One of the few boats that would be shorter than my age that I would do an ocean race on in a heartbeat.

 

Might have to hoist this on a shroud for old time sake.

smileyyellow_stick12x.jpg

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ORC Worlds in Kiel Germany

 

After two races: 2nd place out of 27 boats. One inshore and one offshore race.

 

 

We've found the boat does pretty well in any rating system we've sailed under. HPR, PHRF, ORR. Would like to get some ORCi racing in, number is pretty good for that.

 

 

And let us know when we're doing a TPac.
Fetus will bring the gray bucket.

 

 

It's mandatory.

 

 

 

Might have to hoist this on a shroud for old time sake.

smileyyellow_stick12x.jpg

 

 

I actually got some yellow on the boat on the sly. The document number is painted on in Federal Yellow!

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I thought you guys did quite well under ORR in the Mac race. We made the same move and went farther east which hurt us in the long run. Had both of us stayed more to the west, our respective finishes would have been much better. You had the boat that should be yellow rolling nicely.

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Shoulda gone on da swan. Sail changes and kite selection super easy. 8 powered winches. AC. Washing machine. Best Bus out there!!

 

What's next for MX? Should be a very competitive fast 40 foot division at American YC Fall Series in September.

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Worth it.

British racing green is cooler...

20140804_160220_zpsykd50eqh.jpg

That looks like my boat, except we have a boom and a cooler paint job.

 

Good luck with her....

 

Cheers,

 

opusone

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My grinder says pedestal handles are overrated.

Will we see you on the line for Transpac 2015? Perhaps we can get Rock & Roll to enter as well. They were fast during the Santa Barbara/King Harbor Race.

 

Like to see you against the J125's on a longer distance race so you can leg out......

 

Cheers,

 

opusone

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My grinder says pedestal handles are overrated.

Will we see you on the line for Transpac 2015? Perhaps we can get Rock & Roll to enter as well. They were fast during the Santa Barbara/King Harbor Race.

 

Like to see you against the J125's on a longer distance race so you can leg out......

 

Cheers,

 

opusone

 

 

 

I'm hoping so. How this fall goes is gonna to tell the tale. Long range I'd like to send it out for the Transpac, then ship from Hawaii to Asia for something like the China Sea Race in 2016, then off to the Med after that. It's really what the boat is made for, and it ships for cheaper than you can move a Farr 40 across the country.

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My grinder says pedestal handles are overrated.

Does he say that with or without his false teeth in?

 

I dunno, he motored away on his Hoveround before I could ask.

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Grin, then brush up on your negotiating skills dude!

 

 

 

 

 

IMHO these boats are a big gamble for builders and owners. If they do not do well in mixed fleets or become a viable OD class they end up being as easy to sell as used kleenex.


I think the builder did ok. As an owner, it is always considered sunk cost. Anyone who goes into a new boat thinking about resale is going to be disappointed.

In our case, we got tipped off to the boat as we were basically going to do a custom boat that was essentially the same. This just saved us time and money. We have had fine results in mixed fleets as well, no real complaints.
But it's not yellow!

 

You don't know how much I argued to paint it yellow dude.

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