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Pehrst

Winnie of Bourne sank off Nantucket.

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Big hole. Starboard rail. At least the ROW vessel survived. Surprised they didn't try heeling her. I'd have slung some weight off a prevented out boom.

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Big hole. Starboard rail. At least the ROW vessel survived. Surprised they didn't try heeling her. I'd have slung some weight off a prevented out boom.

Sure you would have. You probably could have saved Robert Redford's boat too.

How have you already established who was ROW from those photos and where the 2x2 foot seam was?

How many on board capable of helping? How far from the beach were they?

So, you can't get hit on the starborad rail whilst you are on starboard tack?

Would have thought Winnie was on stbd.

 

Hopefully all safe and she will be salvaged.

 

 

E.B.

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So that is only the second Concordia Yawl to be lost? Thats tough. She will probably be raised and fixed, no one lets a Concordia die. They deserve better.

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So that is only the second Concordia Yawl to be lost? Thats tough. She will probably be raised and fixed, no one lets a Concordia die. They deserve better.

I'm sure they displayed huge bollocks under the circumstances and did all they could to get her in.

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That's hull #11, I hope to god they raise her and repair her. She was for sale at $179,000.00 and was in remarkable condition.

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How deep is she?

 

sailboat-collision2.jpg

 

About that deep maybe?

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Ship arriving too late to save a drowning witch...

 

Not a witch, weighs more than a duck and didn't float...

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Saw a crane and barge on its way to Nantucket at around 1pm today about. 15 miles out. Bet it will be out of the water soon.

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That's what happens when you bring a knife to a gun fight :wacko:

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The burning question of the hour...

 

 

 

 

 

"Did the front fall off?" :ph34r:B)

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How deep is she?

 

removed

 

About that deep maybe?

 

I think they call that "about half a mast deep".

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It must be good to have deep enough pockets to pay for this upfront. No way an insurance company moved that fast... Now to see how long it takes to rebuild her

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It must be good to have deep enough pockets to pay for this upfront. No way an insurance company moved that fast... Now to see how long it takes to rebuild her

 

Wrong

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Hey if I am wrong that's great u just want to know who his insurance company is... I have seen boats in this area get way laid months to get work started because the company was dragging there feet

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You can always do what you need to do to minimize further damage. One phone call between the adjuster and service provider is all that's needed here your Also talking about a threat to navigation, and a pollution threat.

 

You've been hanging with second rate insurance companies.

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Edith is right on this point. Do what it takes to mitigate further damage and that should be covered. Just be sure to let the insurers know what you have in mind. I mentioned earlier that there is only one Concordia yawl built to meet its demise. A good friends went up on the beach in St John in near miss Hurricane and it looked to be totalled and he had it craned off the beach and hauled to Tortola and brought back to better condition than before the storm. I think that a Concordia owner that let one go without a real fight would forever be a pariah, and rightfully so. Keep us posted Edith.

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If the owners have wealth or any type of deep liability coverage. The liability carriers along with the owners legal team may have been the one to jump into action. A policy with limited coverage or risk of loss to the insurer may not have jumped into the same level of action on a Sunday morning. There is also the potential liability to the owner, skipper, and insurers of the boat that rammed hole into the boat in the first place. I suspect one or more parties with deep pockets were focused on mitigating their risk.

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Hmnnn,....you could be right, but what are the chances that a Swan 48 and a Concordia Yawl both on the NYYC Annual Cruise have 'deep pockets'?

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That's hull #11, I hope to god they raise her and repair her. She was for sale at $179,000.00 and was in remarkable condition.

 

 

Here is the link for Winnie of Bourne on the Yacht World site

 

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1952/Concordia-39%27-Yawl-2625336/MA/United-States

Absolutely stunning...

 

Hope she's soon back to her best...

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Is that a park bench?

 

 

They are Pullman-style berths (port & starboard). They fold down for use.

 

Edit: Attached are photo's of a Pullman berth raised, and lowered for sleeping.

post-106106-0-96465500-1407797718_thumb.png

post-106106-0-59756100-1407797727_thumb.png

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You can always do what you need to do to minimize further damage. One phone call between the adjuster and service provider is all that's needed here your Also talking about a threat to navigation, and a pollution threat.

 

You've been hanging with second rate insurance companies.

JT is that you?

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What Now? The Concordia was listed for $179K online before the Swan rammed her.

 

ButH9IXCQAAELt9-1.jpg-large_000.jpeg

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The thread title sounds like the first line of a limerick.

 

Fair Winnie a' sail off Nantucket

Until crash! - another yacht struck it

The culprit sailed on

This Dragon, a Swan

Left Winnie alist and soon sunk-et.

 

...oh, f*ck it.

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What's not being said here is the crew had the sails down, boat stable, heeled over to port and on the way back into the harbor until the uscg's 3 boats came roaring over with large wakes and caused the boat to swamp. Once it rocked in waves and went starboard side in there was no chance.

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I was gonna say, that thing looks better coming out of the water than 90% of the boats in any given PHRF fleet look on a good day.....

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What Now? The Concordia was listed for $179K online before the Swan rammed her.

 

ButH9IXCQAAELt9-1.jpg-large_000.jpeg

What now?

5 gallons of gas and a match

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There once was man on Nantucket

Whose swan was so big he said "fuck it"

So he went down the line

Spied Winnie so fine

And said "crap we're on port we should duck it"

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I suspect that boat will sail again- what about Concordias and their owners don't you get-

 

post-24720-0-54083200-1407950470_thumb.jpg

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I don't see what is so difficult about that repair. Other than the iron jenny. You have to replank and reframe at some point anyway. She'll be ahead of the game.

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There once was man on Nantucket

Whose swan was so big he said "fuck it"

So he went down the line

Spied Winnie so fine

And said "crap we're on port we should duck it"

{golf clap}

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The NYYC cruise has been called a boozer.

But nobody on Winnie thought they could lose-her.

Until with the same burgee flying came one of their own

Rammed amidships Winnie let out a groan

Oh damn, I've been screwed by another NYYC tosser!

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There once was man on Nantucket

Whose swan was so big he said "fuck it"

So he went down the line

Spied Winnie so fine

And said "crap we're on port we should duck it"

{golf clap}

agreed.

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Be careful Mr. L.H.

Some eyewitnesses have said this isnt just a simple case stbd R.O.W.

Did you enjoy our tea?

E.B.

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Be careful Mr. L.H.

Some eyewitnesses have said this isnt just a simple case stbd R.O.W.

Did you enjoy our tea?

E.B.

 

I'll grant him some poetic license on this one..

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Be careful Mr. L.H.

Some eyewitnesses have said this isnt just a simple case stbd R.O.W.

Did you enjoy our tea?

E.B.

I'll grant him some poetic license on this one..

Seriously. Try to make starboard rhyme with anything. You can't.

 

I most enjoyed eating your crumpets Miss Bicknell

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What Now? The Concordia was listed for $179K online before the Swan rammed her.

 

ButH9IXCQAAELt9-1.jpg-large_000.jpeg

What now?

5 gallons of gas and a match

 

I have it from someone I trust that Steve Lima of Concordia chartered the tug, barge and crane last Friday, picked the boat in 8-9 feet of water on Saturday, patched, re floated, re lifted straight and took her away to New Bedford to be loaded on a Brownell trailer and taken to Concordia for repair.

 

She will be returned to bristol condition.

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from http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?180901-Concordia-Yawl-Winnie-of-Bourne&p=4255338#post4255338

The owner was aboard along with two owners of another Concordia, as well as the long-time captain. I have learned from the captain that they were on starboard close reaching and about to harden up towards the committee boat end of the starting line about 1 1/2 minutes before the starting gun. The Swan 48 was close reaching/close hauled on port in the starting area and as they appeared off the starboard bow, there was a shout to "head down" and both boats bore off at the same time, thus ending with Winnie's starboard side exposed to the pointy end of the Swan.

Going over other scenarios, it could have been a bow to bow collision or a port to port collision with possibly no hull breach but undoubtedly a dismasting and possibility of serious injury. Definitely a clear right of way, port/starboard scenario and also sailing though the starting area of the classics fleet with just over a minute to the start. The other boat immediately admitted fault, withdrew from the race and followed Winnie into the harbor. She continued on starboard tack keeping the starboard hull as heeled over as possible so that they could partially stem the leak while the captain attempted to rig the working jib over the hole in the hull. He did not have enough time to get it sorted effectively before they had to make a decision whether to head in towards the harbor or keep sailing on stbd hoping the Coast Guard could help. They chose to head in as far as they could and beach in shallow water. They were able to get the boat out of the channel in to about 9 feet of water over sand bottom. Of course, they did not have time to fashion a patch over the hull or suspend a dinghy filled with water over the side as mentioned. The captain did briefly think of getting the CG rib to take a halyard off to port to heel her over possibly giving them the opportunity to get a patch fashioned while employing pumps, but time to explain the plan to the young coasties was not aplenty so they did what they could on their own.


and from http://www.concordiaboats.com/yawl.php?id=11

large_011_010_1200x671.jpg

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This is not meant as a slight at all but what the fuck is the big deal about Concordia? I mean is the keel made of gold? I just don't get what makes it different then every other New England wooden sailboat? Please educate me

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It has a very distinctive Star logo on the bow that has special powers over everyone that comes within range. The Concordia Yawl is the equivalent to the Masons Order and you need to know the secret handshake and that sort of thing. Think about it and you will see that such unnatural powers would be needed to ensure the survival of all but one of the fleet to this day. You don't mess with this sort of tradition. I am amazed that the offending Swan, as revered as it is, didn't blow away in a cloud of CGI dust like in the movies when it came within a boat length of threatening such an icon of boatbuilding as the "Winnie". Actually, I am surprised that the poor vessel was able to suffer the shame of such a name in the first place and doubt that it was her original name. That may have put a HooDoo on her leading to such a disgraceful sinking. If the Concordia guys came to her rescue as reported that says a lot about the loyalty that follows this fleet and more power to them.

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This is not meant as a slight at all but what the fuck is the big deal about Concordia? I mean is the keel made of gold? I just don't get what makes it different then every other New England wooden sailboat? Please educate me

 

Go sail one, like the old S&S designs, they sail like a f'ing dream and that level of craftsmanship simply does not exist any more.

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I raced on one to Bermuda in 1990- they are sweet sailing boats, though not fast. Owner's love them and sell them to others that will love them- and they are as pretty a classic boat as you will ever see.

 

And Hunt designed them.

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It has a very distinctive Star logo on the bow that has special powers over everyone that comes within range. The Concordia Yawl is the equivalent to the Masons Order and you need to know the secret handshake and that sort of thing. Think about it and you will see that such unnatural powers would be needed to ensure the survival of all but one of the fleet to this day. You don't mess with this sort of tradition. I am amazed that the offending Swan, as revered as it is, didn't blow away in a cloud of CGI dust like in the movies when it came within a boat length of threatening such an icon of boatbuilding as the "Winnie". Actually, I am surprised that the poor vessel was able to suffer the shame of such a name in the first place and doubt that it was her original name. That may have put a HooDoo on her leading to such a disgraceful sinking. If the Concordia guys came to her rescue as reported that says a lot about the loyalty that follows this fleet and more power to them.

 

 

The Magic Star... She's been named "Winnie of Bourne" since she was purchased in 1952. In 1952, "Winnie" (which means 1st born daughter) was the 878th most popular name in America, ahead of Rosann, Sophia, and Amber but well behind Beryl and Shauna and Isabelle. For a while, when she was owned in Oyster Bay, they dropped the "of Bourne," but when she was re-sold they re-added it to her name. Probably few people remember who the original Winnie is, but this boat is carrying her legacy forward through at least 6 decades and 5 owners. I sure hope they put it back together.

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I'm sure they will, a good friend did much the same to his "Golondrina" which looked to be a goner sitting high and dry on a beach in St. John after a hurricane. They worked their butts off replanking and sistering frames for the best part of a year and right after relaunching the boat it took a vicious lightning strike requiring much more work!

 

http://www.concordiaboats.com/yawl.php?id=65

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from http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?180901-Concordia-Yawl-Winnie-of-Bourne&p=4255338#post4255338

 

The owner was aboard along with two owners of another Concordia, as well as the long-time captain. I have learned from the captain that they were on starboard close reaching and about to harden up towards the committee boat end of the starting line about 1 1/2 minutes before the starting gun. The Swan 48 was close reaching/close hauled on port in the starting area and as they appeared off the starboard bow, there was a shout to "head down" and both boats bore off at the same time, thus ending with Winnie's starboard side exposed to the pointy end of the Swan.

 

Going over other scenarios, it could have been a bow to bow collision or a port to port collision with possibly no hull breach but undoubtedly a dismasting and possibility of serious injury. Definitely a clear right of way, port/starboard scenario and also sailing though the starting area of the classics fleet with just over a minute to the start. The other boat immediately admitted fault, withdrew from the race and followed Winnie into the harbor. She continued on starboard tack keeping the starboard hull as heeled over as possible so that they could partially stem the leak while the captain attempted to rig the working jib over the hole in the hull. He did not have enough time to get it sorted effectively before they had to make a decision whether to head in towards the harbor or keep sailing on stbd hoping the Coast Guard could help. They chose to head in as far as they could and beach in shallow water. They were able to get the boat out of the channel in to about 9 feet of water over sand bottom. Of course, they did not have time to fashion a patch over the hull or suspend a dinghy filled with water over the side as mentioned. The captain did briefly think of getting the CG rib to take a halyard off to port to heel her over possibly giving them the opportunity to get a patch fashioned while employing pumps, but time to explain the plan to the young coasties was not aplenty so they did what they could on their own.

and from http://www.concordiaboats.com/yawl.php?id=11

 

 

 

I can never understand why it's so difficult to stay away from the starting line when it's not your start... same issues with our club...

 

+1000 on the owner for his actions, Dragon, read and learn..

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What's nine cracked frames and 7 busted planks to a Concordia Yawl owner? Talk about dedication.

 

The Hurricane that swept through the Virgin Islands in November of 1984, damaging hundreds of boats, left GOLONDRINA on the beach with nine cracked frames, seven damaged planks, the rudder chewed off and a bilge full of sand. The biggest problem, however, was that the storm hit the day that she changed owners. The old owner could get more from the insurance company than from the new owner, so his plan was to keep her, tow her out to sea and... But the new owner, Bill Rich, prevailed and she was patched up enough to make it to a yard on the British Virgins where Bill and his partner, Jenny Jerome, moved into a rental apartment (that they turned into a varnishing shed) and worked to restore GOLONDRINA with the help of Tom Bixby, sent down by Concordia, and a few of the local craftsmen. 164 days later, she was re-launched, good as new. On the way back to St. John, Bill sailed her in a single-handed race, which he won, and the next day he and Jenny raced her in a classic boat regatta which they also won.

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Golondrina was the queen of my harbor as a kid (Biddeford Pool, ME), and I knew her every curve. Eventually John Eide bought her in the Caribbean and a few years ago brought her back to the Pool. I was able to help him reunite her with the sweet dinghy (like the one above, only finished bright) she had had. She is spending this summer in Portland, still in flawless condition and almost entirely owner maintained for most of her life, thanks to a series of skilled caring owners, as Rasp22 has noted.

 

Otherwise it takes a lot of money.

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A new 40 foot boat is not cheap, but as any owner who's done a full restoration will tell you, it's about the same cost to properly restore a boat as it is to buy a new one depending.

 

I'd love to know what the owners of Bolero spent on the recent restoration at Rockport, must have easily been 7 figures. I know of a number of 40 foot boats that took over a quarter mil to restore.

 

bolero-jb2345.jpg

 

All that said; what would you rather own in 20 years, a worn out early 00's IRC typeform or one of these?

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"I can never understand why it's so difficult to stay away from the starting line when it's not your start... same issues with our club..."

 

Our club too.

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This is not meant as a slight at all but what the fuck is the big deal about Concordia? I mean is the keel made of gold? I just don't get what makes it different then every other New England wooden sailboat? Please educate me

They are not that difficult to acquire:

 

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/cache/searchResults.jsp?type=%28Sail%29&searchtype=homepage&Ntk=boatsEN&sm=3&luom=126&cit=true&currencyid=100&fromPrice=0&slim=quick&Ntt=concordia&N=1783+4294935825&is=false&pricderange=Select+Price+Range

 

Some are quite affordable really.

 

The challenge comes in keeping/maintaining/restoring them.

 

They are perhaps often owned and loved most by those who love "yachting."

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Think of that as the entry price, it doesn't even come close to the real cost. A wood boat's price will be an almost perfect reflection of how much more money will need to be spent to get it into a 'maintenance state' from it's current condition. Winnie was nearly perfect, the asking price of nearly $200k reflects that. You can buy a boat needing restoration for $25k, but I assure you, the $200k boat will be a better deal and you'll be sailing sooner. Ask me how I know.

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Anyone who's interested in Concordias would do well to read Waldo Howland's memoirs "A Life in Boats". Some great stories in the 3 volumes about ocean racing in the early part of the 20th century and of course, how Concordia came to be.

 

It doesn't look like the book is in print right now, but if you come across a copy while trying to track down a back issue of Yaachting, you should definitely pick up a copy.

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I was recently researching a Concordia for sale here in the PNW. Looks to have had a very complete rebuild. Purchase price was do-able. BUT

Research showed that to keep it in the fashion to which it has been maintained took about 300 yard hours every year. While I wish I was a do-it-myselfer, I know I'm not. $25-$30k per year is too much on top of the rest of the boat expenses (at least for this puppy).

 

There is also no way I'd have a Concordia yawl that declined due to poor care either-- it's a Trust and they need owners who love them and have deep(er) pockets!

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So Winnie of Bourne was listed for less than $200K before the Swan sent her and all her electronics and mechanicals to the bottom. The yacht is now and the yard likely at the cost of the Swan or some representative. What is the limit of liability on the Swan's end? Market Value? Full Replacement Value? What is the guess on the selling price coming out of the yard? What is the liability value with putting the owners in the water with their wealthy guests?

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So Winnie of Bourne was listed for less than $200K before the Swan sent her and all her electronics and mechanicals to the bottom. The yacht is now and the yard likely at the cost of the Swan or some representative. What is the limit of liability on the Swan's end? Market Value? Full Replacement Value? What is the guess on the selling price coming out of the yard? What is the liability value with putting the owners in the water with their wealthy guests?

 

Most of us with classics carry special insurance for declared value that's backed up my a marine surveyor. You're paying more for insurance than you would if you insure for market value, but it insures that if something like this happens the boat will be saved.

 

I was recently researching a Concordia for sale here in the PNW. Looks to have had a very complete rebuild. Purchase price was do-able. BUT

Research showed that to keep it in the fashion to which it has been maintained took about 300 yard hours every year. While I wish I was a do-it-myselfer, I know I'm not. $25-$30k per year is too much on top of the rest of the boat expenses (at least for this puppy).

 

There is also no way I'd have a Concordia yawl that declined due to poor care either-- it's a Trust and they need owners who love them and have deep(er) pockets!

 

You're about right, and there's really only one yard that I'd trust, Jensen, they take care of ours along with Adkins' stunning Concordia 'Coriolis.' All the other yards we've worked with have just to much of that 'fishboat repair' mentality, or know nothing about working on wood yachts.

 

Here's Coriolis, note that D - the owner - is wearing a Jensen shirt:

 

coriolis_concordia_blur.jpg

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So Winnie of Bourne was listed for less than $200K before the Swan sent her and all her electronics and mechanicals to the bottom. The yacht is now and the yard likely at the cost of the Swan or some representative. What is the limit of liability on the Swan's end? Market Value? Full Replacement Value? What is the guess on the selling price coming out of the yard? What is the liability value with putting the owners in the water with their wealthy guests?

 

That was almost a useful question until your last four words.

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This is not meant as a slight at all but what the fuck is the big deal about Concordia? I mean is the keel made of gold? I just don't get what makes it different then every other New England wooden sailboat? Please educate me

 

Go sail one, like the old S&S designs, they sail like a f'ing dream and that level of craftsmanship simply does not exist any more.

 

Well, it does, but the people capable of this degree of craftsmanship demand to be paid a bit more than post-war, austerity wages. Abeking and Rasmussen are still around, but I would think that 40' is about the size of the tender for most of the boats they build now.

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This is not meant as a slight at all but what the fuck is the big deal about Concordia? I mean is the keel made of gold? I just don't get what makes it different then every other New England wooden sailboat? Please educate me

 

Go sail one, like the old S&S designs, they sail like a f'ing dream and that level of craftsmanship simply does not exist any more.

 

Well, it does, but the people capable of this degree of craftsmanship demand to be paid a bit more than post-war, austerity wages. Abeking and Rasmussen are still around, but I would think that 40' is about the size of the tender for most of the boats they build now.

 

Ain't that the truth - God I get sick of hearing about this or that skill being "A lost art". There's lots of all of it out there, it's just more expensive and/or doesn't meet the needs of most people.

 

I saw a pinstriper for Rolls Royce talking about his trade being a "Lost Art" recently - "No-one can do it anymore".

 

Bullshit - just because cars don't come with pinstriped wooden wheels anymore doesn't mean no-one can do it. It just isn't an everyday trade anymore because of lower demand. I've seen the same said about traditional plasterers.

 

Wood boats are the same - the level of craftsmanship out there is higher than it's ever been but most people just can't meet the demands of owning a wood boat. Just because there aren't large numbers of fishing schooners being built doesn't make wooden boat building a "Lost Art", it just functions on a smaller scale.

 

It's more of an art now than it's ever been - back in the day it was simply grunt, blue collar labour that most of the workers did because they had few options.

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Well said Jon B!! And the tooling available today makes it easier and faster than ever before.

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This is not meant as a slight at all but what the fuck is the big deal about Concordia? I mean is the keel made of gold? I just don't get what makes it different then every other New England wooden sailboat? Please educate me

 

They are beautiful boats but there is a big cult thing going on with them too. The fact that they were series built rather than one-off's like most old wood boats probably has something to do with it.

 

Rum flavour Kool-Aid anyone? :P

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Abeking and Rasmussen has been out of the yacht business for quite a long time. They build steel and aluminum commercial and government vessels. So the art s lost to them, anyway;-)

But Sloop's point actually helps prove why Concordias are so special and sought after, now, because they are a piece of history that is still out there thriving. It is a joie de vivre thing.

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Abeking and Rasmussen has been out of the yacht business for quite a long time. They build steel and aluminum commercial and government vessels. So the art s lost to them, anyway;-)

 

Depends what you call a yacht? This launched this year.

http://www.boatinternational.com/2014/03/12/abeking-rasmussen-ready-to-launch-new-81-8m-superyacht/

 

AR-6497-one.jpg

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The art is not lost, but as you mention, it's getting harder and harder to find people who have the skills.

 

Rockport Marine comes to mind, you may not find a better yard in the US.

 

We're not that fortunate here out west as there just isn't a market to support it. I've seen work out of PT and it's not in the same league as what's coming out of Brooklyn or Rockport, but there are a few individuals, and they will charge your left nut for their skill (as they should).

 

We've been fortunate to find a small group that understands what the word 'restoration' means and are mindful and dedicated craftsmen, bet they are the exception.

 

I will say that I have yet to see a modern built wood boat (and I see a lot) that is up to the standards Minnefords or Nevins built to. It's just too expensive and modern materials have made some of the techniques less of a necessity.

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Rockport? Benjamin & Gannon? They could take the Concordia back to, you know, Concordia who still maintains and rebuilds half of the boats bearing their name.

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The art is not lost, but as you mention, it's getting harder and harder to find people who have the skills.

 

Rockport Marine comes to mind, you may not find a better yard in the US.

 

We're not that fortunate here out west as there just isn't a market to support it. I've seen work out of PT and it's not in the same league as what's coming out of Brooklyn or Rockport, but there are a few individuals, and they will charge your left nut for their skill (as they should).

 

We've been fortunate to find a small group that understands what the word 'restoration' means and are mindful and dedicated craftsmen, bet they are the exception.

 

I will say that I have yet to see a modern built wood boat (and I see a lot) that is up to the standards Minnefords or Nevins built to. It's just too expensive and modern materials have made some of the techniques less of a necessity.

 

Jespersons do work as good as any I've ever seen - every boat of theirs I've seen has been a piece of furniture, inside and out. Philbrooks are very good as well but a tad more workmanlike. That outfit on the Columbia that built the Bounty clones (Renaissance?) were as good as any as well (from what I know of them) - don't know if they're still around though. The crew at Bel-Aire shipyards built the boss a Garden Wallo