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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

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JeronimoII

VOR 2014-15 - Leg 1

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Quote: "Our aim was always to be within 4-5 miles of whoever was leading and don’t split."

 

This strategy fails if by some bit of luck they end up in the lead.

 

At what point do they break? Or is the strategy to win the VOR with a string of second places? (Which would probably work)

 

If you are in the lead, why would you ever "break", you can't cover. If you were a fast boat, doing that would potentially put you in last place if you made the wrong call. You would have to know absolutely it was the thing to do, and if you knew it, so would everybody else.

 

This is a boatspeed contest, routing has next to nothing to do with it. This is all about who has the fastest drivers and trimmers, who can find and keep the right sail combinations up for all conditions and keep the hammer down for the longest without breaking themselves or the boat. The leaders are those who sail the boat fastest and the back of the pack will have to catch a flyer to do anything. They may well win a leg, bringing home glory for their sponsors. but nobody is going to win this VOR based on what their navigators tell them. This race will be won with 1) boatspeed, 2) playing the percentages/not splitting, 3) boatspeed, 4) not breaking the boat, and 5) boatspeed.

 

Brunel is just saying what I and others have been saying for weeks. I'm sorry if OD racing is one-dimensional that way, but it does promote close racing. The leader goes right, and the fleet goes right to stay in touch. The back of the fleet goes left to try to break with the leaders and the leaders go left to cover. The separations happen through boatspeed and small tactical decisions and over the long haul you don't win banging corners all the time. Why would anyone assume ocean racing OD strategy would be different than OD fleet racing? It has evolved that way for a reason.

 

Some people love that kind of racing.

Good question. Ask MAPFRE.

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Quote: "Our aim was always to be within 4-5 miles of whoever was leading and don’t split."

 

This strategy fails if by some bit of luck they end up in the lead.

 

At what point do they break? Or is the strategy to win the VOR with a string of second places? (Which would probably work)

 

If you are in the lead, why would you ever "break", you can't cover.

 

Sorry, I was trying to make two separate points. The question about breaking refers to the situation where you are running second - you are either happy to remain second (and as I said, win the VOR on that basis) or you will need to try to overtake the leader - and thus break with them. The leader might cover, they might not. But the call is with you as the trailing boat to drive things, not the leader.

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Quote: "Our aim was always to be within 4-5 miles of whoever was leading and don’t split."

 

This strategy fails if by some bit of luck they end up in the lead.

 

At what point do they break? Or is the strategy to win the VOR with a string of second places? (Which would probably work)

If you are in the lead, why would you ever "break", you can't cover. If you were a fast boat, doing that would potentially put you in last place if you made the wrong call. You would have to know absolutely it was the thing to do, and if you knew it, so would everybody else.

 

This is a boatspeed contest, routing has next to nothing to do with it. This is all about who has the fastest drivers and trimmers, who can find and keep the right sail combinations up for all conditions and keep the hammer down for the longest without breaking themselves or the boat. The leaders are those who sail the boat fastest and the back of the pack will have to catch a flyer to do anything. They may well win a leg, bringing home glory for their sponsors. but nobody is going to win this VOR based on what their navigators tell them. This race will be won with 1) boatspeed, 2) playing the percentages/not splitting, 3) boatspeed, 4) not breaking the boat, and 5) boatspeed.

 

Brunel is just saying what I and others have been saying for weeks. I'm sorry if OD racing is one-dimensional that way, but it does promote close racing. The leader goes right, and the fleet goes right to stay in touch. The back of the fleet goes left to try to break with the leaders and the leaders go left to cover. The separations happen through boatspeed and small tactical decisions and over the long haul you don't win banging corners all the time. Why would anyone assume ocean racing OD strategy would be different than OD fleet racing? It has evolved that way for a reason.

 

Some people love that kind of racing.

Boat speed, driving and trimming, comes into play after a good navigator has found the better pressure and the skipper has agreed with him to make the call. Doesn't do much good if you are sitting in mud.

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Stupid Brunel, they don't know anything about what they are doing with a dumb strategy like keeping the leaders in sight. Why don't they read Sailing Anarchy?

 

Mapfre? Apparently they have/had bigger problems. And being all over the map in every way looks like it was one of them.

 

The point is, you only need to beat the other boats in the majority of races, there are no extra points for being absolute fastest. Now, Volvo could have changed that with a cumulative time system rather than points, but they didn't do that.

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Brunel's not stupid at all. They're just saying they're going to copy everything the lead boat's navigator and skipper decide to do.

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Brunel's not stupid at all. They're just saying they're going to copy everything the lead boat's navigator and skipper decide to do.

Which is The best strategy. If you gear your staff to that, you can bulk up your team with another driver or trimmer or person to keep the hammer down, rather than a routing guru, or (ouch) "professor".

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Brunel's not stupid at all. They're just saying they're going to copy everything the lead boat's navigator and skipper decide to do.

Which is The best strategy (sorry for the sarcasm). If you gear your staff to that, you can bulk up your team with another driver or trimmer or person to keep the hammer down, rather than a routing guru, or (ouch) "professor".

You could be right. As long as it's not another skipper.

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Stupid Brunel, they don't know anything about what they are doing with a dumb strategy like keeping the leaders in sight. Why don't they read Sailing Anarchy?

 

It appears that they do.

 

 

The point is, you only need to beat the other boats in the majority of races, there are no extra points for being absolute fastest.

 

Indeed. This is the most critical point. However, I don't think we really understand how the combination of strategies will work out. Some strategies won't scale, and they will mean different tradeoffs. Each leg is long enough that even the most trivial of issues could cause a boat to lose contact, or be forced to take a different line. Once out of line of sight or AIS reach it becomes harder to maintain touch, and over a few weeks, really hard.

 

I would be disappointed to see the race descend into a drag race. I remain sceptical that it will, simply because little chaotic events can act to spit boats out from the pack in unexpected ways.

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Indeed. This is the most critical point. However, I don't think we really understand how the combination of strategies will work out. Some strategies won't scale, and they will mean different tradeoffs. Each leg is long enough that even the most trivial of issues could cause a boat to lose contact, or be forced to take a different line. Once out of line of sight or AIS reach it becomes harder to maintain touch, and over a few weeks, really hard.

 

I would be disappointed to see the race descend into a drag race. I remain sceptical that it will, simply because little chaotic events can act to spit boats out from the pack in unexpected ways.

.

....I found it quite interesting to see the fleet's interaction down the African coast. It seemed that when a boat got behind,it actually gained an opportunity to play the group mind rather than remain glued to it.

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Indeed. This is the most critical point. However, I don't think we really understand how the combination of strategies will work out. Some strategies won't scale, and they will mean different tradeoffs. Each leg is long enough that even the most trivial of issues could cause a boat to lose contact, or be forced to take a different line. Once out of line of sight or AIS reach it becomes harder to maintain touch, and over a few weeks, really hard.

 

I would be disappointed to see the race descend into a drag race. I remain sceptical that it will, simply because little chaotic events can act to spit boats out from the pack in unexpected ways.

.

....I found it quite interesting to see the fleet's interaction down the African coast. It seemed that when a boat got behind,it actually gained an opportunity to play the group mind rather than remain glued to it.

It was interesting also in that I don't think any two strategies were alike. All different. Even the leaders.

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Indeed. This is the most critical point. However, I don't think we really understand how the combination of strategies will work out. Some strategies won't scale, and they will mean different tradeoffs. Each leg is long enough that even the most trivial of issues could cause a boat to lose contact, or be forced to take a different line. Once out of line of sight or AIS reach it becomes harder to maintain touch, and over a few weeks, really hard.

 

I would be disappointed to see the race descend into a drag race. I remain sceptical that it will, simply because little chaotic events can act to spit boats out from the pack in unexpected ways.

.

....I found it quite interesting to see the fleet's interaction down the African coast. It seemed that when a boat got behind,it actually gained an opportunity to play the group mind rather than remain glued to it.

It was interesting also in that I don't think any two strategies were alike. All different. Even the leaders.

.

....yes,,,and from the sounds of it there'll be similar variables in the next leg.

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Indeed. This is the most critical point. However, I don't think we really understand how the combination of strategies will work out. Some strategies won't scale, and they will mean different tradeoffs. Each leg is long enough that even the most trivial of issues could cause a boat to lose contact, or be forced to take a different line. Once out of line of sight or AIS reach it becomes harder to maintain touch, and over a few weeks, really hard.

 

I would be disappointed to see the race descend into a drag race. I remain sceptical that it will, simply because little chaotic events can act to spit boats out from the pack in unexpected ways.

.

....I found it quite interesting to see the fleet's interaction down the African coast. It seemed that when a boat got behind,it actually gained an opportunity to play the group mind rather than remain glued to it.

It was interesting also in that I don't think any two strategies were alike. All different. Even the leaders.
.

....yes,,,and from the sounds of it there'll be similar variables in the next leg.

Toughest call will be to pick who comes in last on the next leg.

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Why does VOR never stop in Sydney?

I grew up a block from the harbor on the South Head. Might have been a surfer except that it was two buses to Bondi. So got into the sailing scene. Raced out of Woollahra Yacht Club in Rose Bay. First in little Sabot - types (forgot the name) except they had a jib and a spinnaker. Then moved up to Moths, the wooden ones that looked like floating doors and finally Cherubs. Got into a very bad boating accident there too. My friends older brother knew Iain Murray at the time and we got to hang out around him and his skiff, Channel 7. Never got a ride though. My friend's older brother also owned a neglected 12' skiff that we fixed up and banged around the harbour for many summers playing chicken with the hydrofoils and ferries and flying over the swells coming in through the heads. Can you still pull your boat up on the topless beaches? Fun to watch the STH every Boxing Day from Camp Cove and follow it all the way across the military barracks through the heads.

Sorry for the high jack. Brought back memories.

The race used the Sydney-Hobart as a partial leg in 2001-02, News Corp were first out of the Heads. The boats had a 3.5hr stop in Hobart and then went on to finish in Auckland. Assa Abloy won line honours that year, then 15mins after was Ludde Ingvall with Nicorette, and then the rest of the VO60's piled in, Amer Sports One, Tyco, Djuice Dragons, Newscorp, Illbruck and then Amer Sports Too.

I remember that but oh so vaguely. Nicorette was a yellow boat?

 

 

Nicorette had Green lettering. Not even close.

 

Oh dear S.C., arguing with yourself, I wonder which sock you meant to use to reply to yourself??

Remember to take your feet OUT when you change socks.

The sabot like boat at Wollahra, probably a Manly Junior.

And C.S.'s post:

."I have trouble fully believing that...sounds more like boat-yard bluster from 18's back home! :lol:"

Is he also an ex-pat Sydney boy, or heaven forbid do you both come from the same drawer..

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Oh dear S.C., arguing with yourself, I wonder which sock you meant to use to reply to yourself??

Remember to take your feet OUT when you change socks.

The sabot like boat at Wollahra, probably a Manly Junior.

And C.S.'s post:

."I have trouble fully believing that...sounds more like boat-yard bluster from 18's back home! :lol:"

Is he also an ex-pat Sydney boy, or heaven forbid do you both come from the same drawer..

.

 

.......twit. It's pretty clear that SC was correcting himself and I was referring to Nico and his home.

 

. ...maybe if you bring teacher an apple she'll give you some extra comprehension classes :)

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Writer's Block??? YGBSM? OBR's are not there to write fiction or wax poetic. Just fucking tell us what's going on! FFS, how hard can that be?

!

 

......just. turn. the. camera. ON.

zactly

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.

...found something in the dustbowl VO site.........some tactical chatter :mellow:

 

 

 

Leg 1, done. The seven boats are now in the South African marina, the 66 sailors on dry land.

But what happened exactly between Alicante and Cape Town? How did Abu Dhabi Ocean Racing hang on to win, why did MAPFRE come last?

“It was all tactical, when normally you do one long gybe out to the trade winds, and one to the Doldrums.”

Team Vestas Wind’s navigator Wouter Verbraak sets the scene.

“It was very intense right from the start. It was all tactical along the African coast, with very little sleep. And the Southern Ocean was pretty intense too, with some weather systems that weren’t really in place.”

So here is a look at the four key moments of this tactical, tense and tight month of ocean racing.

Strait of Gibraltar

The gateway to the Atlantic Ocean. It took the fleet two long days of Mediterranean coastal sailing to get there, but they eventually reached the Strait.

And that’s where the first big call of this leg was made: Team SCA chose to tack north and head closer to the coast to avoid the strong currents in the middle of the Strait. The only boat to head in that direction, they took the lead an hour after.

All six other boats kept sailing southwest towards the middle and crossed closer to Morocco.

m28323_crop7_1024x576_1415779599764C.jpg
The Navigator's Race

“The big split happened,” said Libby Greenhalgh at the time, the navigator of the magenta boat. “We couldn’t understand why they would all choose that route – so we stuck to our guns, and got to the Rock several miles ahead.”

It was a bold move, and one that put the girls 21 nautical miles ahead as they became the first boat to escape into the Atlantic Ocean.

Cape Verde Islands

This leg usually offers two options: going west to enjoy the trade winds, or sailing along the African coast, all the way down to the Canaries and the Cape Verde Islands.

There was no such choice this time around. Because of weak trades, the whole fleet stayed close to the Moroccan shore – and close to each other.

One week after leaving Alicante, they gybed southwest towards the Cape Verde Islands.

m28616_crop8_1024x576_proportional_14138
Brian Carlin/Team Vestas Wind

It was time to make a second decision: go below or through the middle of the islands.

A split in the fleet saw Abu Dhabi, Team Brunel, Team SCA and Team Alvimedica head north, Vestas and MAPFRE go through the centre, and Dongfeng go south, between the east and central islands.

Going north, Abu Dhabi and Brunel already knew they wanted to cross the Doldrums to the west. Vestas went for the middle option with a little something in mind already.

“Our decision to cross east was taken before the Cape Verde Islands,” explained Wouter in a phone call to the boat. “We saw a tropical storm developing with good wind ahead of us, and light spots too. We went further east to avoid these calms, and managed to get the new wind from the east first.”

For others, the archipelago was where it all went wrong.

“I think it all goes back to the Cape Verde Islands,” said Anthony Marchand on the dock in Cape Town yesterday. His team, MAPFRE, had just crossed the finish line in last place.

“We should have gone north… We were close to Vestas at the time, but they crossed the Doldrums well – I don’t know how they pulled that off…”

These islands definitely played a long-term role in the leg. They shaped the next crucial move to cross the Doldrums.

Doldrums

Wonderful and terrible, fascinating and dreaded. The Intertropical Convergence Zone is a place like no other, a low-pressure area around the Equator where the winds tend to be calm, the clouds gigantic, the sunrises, epic.

It’s a lottery, and one where Abu Dhabi and Brunel made a clean sweep. They went all the way to the west of the fleet, and hardly slowed down coming out of the light wind band some 90 nautical miles ahead of their closest competitors.

“It was a no brainer for us to take the longer route,” explained Bouwe in an email from the boat. “We have seen that happening very often in Leg 1; people like to say west is best and maybe there is something to it.”

“It’s a fact that the Doldrums are narrower in the west than in the east, so it’s less risky to be in the west.”

But one boat went east – and Vestas did very well, finding a hole in the middle of the light airs to come out in a handy third position.

Having chosen the middle course, Dongfeng, Alvimedica, MAPFRE and SCA didn’t have it so easy. The Spanish boat reported a 200km cloud, and the girls got stuck for an agonising eight hours in virtually NO wind.

m28848_crop7_1024x576_14157795990918.jpg
West and East

It was time to cross the Equator, make way towards the Brazilian waypoint of Fernando de Noronha and finally enter the Southern Atlantic.

St Helena High

This big, fat high-pressure system drives weather experts, navigators and routing systems mad. Looming over the middle of the Southern Atlantic, creating light wind patches all over the place, the St Helena High only gives the sailors two options: rounding it, or sailing through it.

There was no way to cut the corner this time, and it was all about dealing with the elephant in the middle of the room – the High, before turning east to Cape Town.

First, a run south-southwest, sailing along the Brazilian coast in southeast trade winds.

MAPFRE tried to hook into a small low-pressure system off Rio, but that didn’t work out – they only sailed more miles.

Brunel flirted around the high-pressure system, but stumbled in light winds.

Vestas went far west and made a temporary gain, but didn’t manage to cash their investment later on.

At the back of the fleet, MAPFRE and SCA were stuck in a different system by then, but their final battle made up for this temporary lack of confrontation.

After breaking a rudder and a padeye, Dongfeng did the best of what they had: Charles Caudrelier’s team went south, gybed early and caught up with the leaders.

And there, once in the Southern Ocean, heading away from the ice exclusion zone that sits at 42º South, the leading boats found themselves once again in sight of each other. After 19 days of sailing.

m29449_crop7_1024x576_1415779600135E.jpg
The magic number

Once back with the front pack, Charles kept the pressure on Ian and his guys. Abu Dhabi arrived in Cape Town only 12 minutes before them, taking first place, and one point.

“SiFi got all the major navigation decisions right,” said an ecstatic Ian on the South African dock, speaking of his navigator Simon Fisher.

“Like the African coast, like going west of the Cape Verde islands, managing the St Helena High, and particularly gybing early in the Southern Ocean, and our final approach.”

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It STILL boggles the mind that 1 & 2 finished withing 12 min of each other after 20+ days and 6000 miles of sailing.

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.

.....good t'see they had lots of beef t'chew on! :)

 

...I enjoy the OBR blogs....... http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/news/7815_From-the-boats.html

 

m29831_crop8_1024x576_proportional_14151
Corinna Halloran/Team SCA/Volvo Ocean Race

Good to see the handle of a "cat-o-nine-tails" hanging up there next to the white board. That'll keep the girls on their toes! :ph34r:

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Good to see the handle of a "cat-o-nine-tails" hanging up there next to the white board. That'll keep the girls on their toes! :ph34r:

.

 

.....ship's bell perhaps? :wacko:

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Yup. IIRC, they can make food, but can't participate in sailing the boat.

That has to be a seriously boring and frustrating way to spend 3 weeks plus onboard IMO.

 

 

For those with a TDS sub. The daily life of an OBR.

http://www.thedailysail.com/offshore/15/67712/1/team-alvimedia-amory-ross-on-the-obr-other-duties

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