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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

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Tyson0317

how late is too late for inside passage cruising?

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I am contemplating taking a 2-4 week cruise from Seattle up the BC inside passage in a J/35 . However, I have projects stacked up through mid-september. Is there a no-go season for this area and what is/are the limiting factors? Cold? Darkness? Weather? Ice?

 

How late is too late to go?

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People cruise up to Chatterbox falls for new years eve. October will be do able. Many places will be closed for the season. Bring your own ice. :)

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I'm kind-of tough and not known to panic. I hunt Washington State, which at times tests ones reasoning for leaving the comfort of his leather couch. That said, I'd rather it be an enjoyable trip and one that both I and the boat come back from unharmed.

 

Any tips from those who have done it are much appreciated. Frankly I had to google Chatterbox Falls and Seymour Narrows. The atlas/guidebook/chart that I have shows it, but does not have a caution that I'd expect to see for a 5mi stretch that could have 15kt currents!! That's nuts!

 

Is there a good guide book I should get?

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September weather can be very nice, sometimes. Days are starting to get short so mornings will be cold. Nice to have heat to take the chill off.

 

Take your time, stay on "sunshine" coast, go east around Cortez and avoid Seymore Narrows.

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You gotta have cabin heat unless you are very hardy, otherwise it's a good time to go - you actually get wind in the fall and unless you get unlucky, the rain isn't that frequent. As noted, lots of places are closed but you also get all the good spots pretty much to yourself. I wouldn't go in November - the monsoon is almost certain then.

 

Personally, I'd stay south of Seymour - if you aren't heading to Alaska or Haida Gwaii. There's plenty to see & do in Georgia Strait.

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September weather can be very nice, sometimes. Days are starting to get short so mornings will be cold. Nice to have heat to take the chill off.

 

Take your time, stay on "sunshine" coast, go east around Cortez and avoid Seymore Narrows.

 

What he said. With only 2-3 weeks, you probably won't get much further than upper Desolation Sound or lower Broughtons. We are going the last week of August, first 2 weeks of September, you can almost always count on decent weather until mid-September, sometimes right through the month. Desolation Sound is usually quite a bit warmer than the Broughtons. Best guide book we have found is the Dreamspeaker series.

Some places we really like, going progressively more north:

 

Smuggler Cove

Princess Louisa Inlet

Ballet Bay (in Blind Bay)

Roscoe Bay

Octopus Islands

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"Exploring the South Coast of British Columbia" and "Wagonners 2014" should be a good set of guide books. We used both of them heavily when doing this trip, as well as various books frmo the Dreamspeaker series. Dreamspeaker is expensive (I think 3 books cover this area and they are $50/ea), but has nicer narrative than the other options.

 

I spent 4 weeks in the same grounds last July and Seymour Narrows was near our northernmost point. It would be easy to avoid it.

 

Late Sept to Late October sounds nice. It'll be empty, sometimes it will be cold, you'll have a lot of it to yourself. I bet most services will be closed.

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Dreamspeaker is great, the authors are wonderful people too.

 

The area is a bit drier and more mild than being in Seattle or Bellingham generally at that time of year. But that is certainly a generality. But generally you should have any the most popular spots nearly to yourself and the weather will still be mild and mostly dry. Of course getting worse as you get into October. This is my FAV time to spend in the San Juans, Gulf Islands, Sunshine Coast.

 

You will get more rain if you go up the inlets, like to Princess Louisa and Chatterbox Falls. But it is one of the most beautiful spots on earth. Do it anyway.

 

A 2 week trip from Seattle aboard a J-35 and you will just not have the time to worry about going thru Seymour narrows. 4 weeks maybe. But you could easily while away a month with out getting much past Desolation Sound.

 

From Seattle to San Juans minimum 1 long day

day 2 for customs at south pender and into the gulf islands

day 3 somewhere near Nanaimo

Day 4 cross over towards Egmont and take a hike to check out Skookumchuck rapids

day 5-6-7-8-9 explore sechelt and Jervis inlets and then to Chatterbox

day 10 back towards texada island/powell river

11 cross Strait of Georgia to Nanaimo, you may be ready for a good night out by now.

12 Customs at Roche Harbour (store will be open, restaurant I think closed)

 

That would take two weeks by the time you got back home and you didnt even make it to desolation sound. And I wouldnt even consider this a leisurely itenerary. We used to do an annual 10 day trip on a trawler (8kts) and that only covered Bellingham to Desolation with one side trip.Did that 8 times I think.

 

You could add two more weeks in for Desolation and the areas just slightly north and never have to worry about Seymour Narrows for a 1 month trip.

 

Be sure to get a Canadian License if you like oysters, there are tons by the time you get past Lund. They literally become a hazard they are so plentiful on many beaches, don't wanna cut yer yittle toesies. Not sure what fishing or crabbing season is on then. Great bottom fishing nearly anywhere after the Gulf Islands anwhere up there in the inlets, desolation, redondo Islands, butte inlet.

 

Tenedos Bay at Desolation is my personal FAV. Oysters, big Lingcod, warm lake with a warm stream running thru the forest down to the beach.

 

I wanna go. Well, looks like we will be doing a charter from Phuket to Langkawi in October, but I still miss home!

 

-edit- Have to add the one wraning about Skookumchuck. DO NOT ATTEMPT WITHOUT CHECKING THE CURRENT GUIDE specifically for this spot. Huge current here to. But not so long in length as Seymour Narrows. You do not want to be sucked thru here on a sailboat.

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Alright, let's broach what some may find an uncouth question: Socialist Republic of Canada and Firearms...

 

I think that it is not only reasonable, but prudent to be armed when one is at times hours away from any prospect of aid from 'the officials'. The Beretta, AK and AR will stay at home - that's a given. But I have never been able to get a straight answer from the Canadians regarding regulations for a US Citizen to possess a 12GA pump shotgun, or say a 6-shot revolver into Canada. Anyone have experience with this? Or is prayer my best option in times of trouble?

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Alright, let's broach what some may find an uncouth question: Socialist Republic of Canada and Firearms...

 

I think that it is not only reasonable, but prudent to be armed when one is at times hours away from any prospect of aid from 'the officials'. The Beretta, AK and AR will stay at home - that's a given. But I have never been able to get a straight answer from the Canadians regarding regulations for a US Citizen to possess a 12GA pump shotgun, or say a 6-shot revolver into Canada. Anyone have experience with this? Or is prayer my best option in times of trouble?

 

Prayer is your only option here. The revolver is a total non-starter, the shotgun only slightly less likely. Your chances of needing any help are infinitesimal, and shooting the locals is frowned upon. Make lots of noise in the woods, that keeps the bears and (most) cougars away. You can carry a Big Knife if it makes you feel better.

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Forget bringing your guns here. If you get attacked by a swimming bear or cougar, use your flare gun on it.

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Alright, let's broach what some may find an uncouth question: Socialist Republic of Canada and Firearms...

 

I think that it is not only reasonable, but prudent to be armed when one is at times hours away from any prospect of aid from 'the officials'. The Beretta, AK and AR will stay at home - that's a given. But I have never been able to get a straight answer from the Canadians regarding regulations for a US Citizen to possess a 12GA pump shotgun, or say a 6-shot revolver into Canada. Anyone have experience with this? Or is prayer my best option in times of trouble?

 

I would strongly suggest you shouldn't cruise anywhere, if you truly, really, believe you will need to defend yourself, best you stay home and watch reality TV.

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We could discuss merits of self-reliance and self-defense all day long (and longer), but for the record when in Canada I go out of my way to act as a guest. I even drive within the speed limit - something I have not done in... ever... where I live. Philosophy on that one is also beyond the scope of this post, but just saying - not looking to abuse the locals or perpetuate the image of someone "exercising his rights" at your local Starbucks.

 

That said, there are stupid people, stupid situations and stupid circumstances where a firearm may be of help - even if it is to signal for help or to start a fire.

 

Per bears and cougars - I immediately thought of this:

 

In light of the rising frequency of human/grizzly bear
conflicts, we advise outdoorsmen to carry
pepper spray with them and wear noisy bells.

It is also a good idea for outdoorsmen to look for bear signs

and recognize the difference between black bear

and grizzly bear poop. Black bear poop
is smaller and contains a lot of berry seeds and squirrel fur.
Grizzly bear poop smells like pepper and has little bells in it.

 

All of that aside, I want to thank everyone (but Keith) for their advise - it was very helpful. Last I checked, the violent crime rate in Canada was not zero and occasionally people do fall pray to wildlife. You may chose to roll the dice, I would prefer to stack the deck in my favor whenever possible.

 

I was under the impression that under certain circumstances some firearms could be declared at the border and permitted. For instance, I have friends who have competed in shooting competitions and gone hunting in Canada - so there must be a way. I will research and post the results for anyone that is interested.

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When in doubt, Google it:

http://canada.usembassy.gov/traveling_to_canada/bringing-weapons-into-canada.html

 

My parents used to carry a shotgun on their commercial fishing boat on their way to and from Alaska. I am sure that they declared it. The handgun they shipped ahead and left it in Alaska between seasons.

 

I will never forget one time clearing customs at Bedwell Harbor. The guy at the counter next to me left as I was conducting my business and shortly returned with a short barrel revolver. He handed it to the Customs agent who said: "You mean to tell me that you did not know that you could not bring this into the country?". I heard that even though confiscated, he could probably retrieve the handgun on the way back out of the country.

 

Edit: The attached link does say: "Most ordinary hunting rifles and shotguns. These may be brought temporarily into Canada for sporting or hunting use during hunting season, for use in competition, for in-transit movement through Canada, or for personal protection against wildlife in remote areas of Canada."

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Alright, let's broach what some may find an uncouth question: Socialist Republic of Canada and Firearms...

 

I think that it is not only reasonable, but prudent to be armed when one is at times hours away from any prospect of aid from 'the officials'. The Beretta, AK and AR will stay at home - that's a given. But I have never been able to get a straight answer from the Canadians regarding regulations for a US Citizen to possess a 12GA pump shotgun, or say a 6-shot revolver into Canada. Anyone have experience with this? Or is prayer my best option in times of trouble?

Just get your visitor BC Small game liscence and you can hunt grouse almost anywhere. You could likely get a deer tag too. Many of the islands are bow and arrow or shotgun only. You will need a .22 for grouse on logging roads, they will fly too easy. Bears will leave you alone mostly. Some bush rattling is usually enough to send them away. Cougars are plentiful but so are deer so don't worry. If you have a dog your chance of an encounter goes up. The juveniles are curious. My border collie ripped into the bush on a walk with my wife and a juvenile shot up a tree 100 ft away from her. She was scared but not issues. A child was jumped 2 blocks from my house, by a juvenile, who didn't go for a kill right away with the strange game it had caught. The mother threw sticks and stuff to no avail and had to physically crawl between the beast and the child. The cougar disengaged and backed off and the mom ran 2 blocks to the nearest house. Healthy adult men don't generally get stalked. Pets have been snatched right from leashes on trails, even on the local trails here, however.

Many of the locals up north are avid hunters and a good portion of them are expat Americans, who ended up here from the Vietnam conflict, on, so don't worry about the people. It is much more dangerous on a Montreal, Quebec street, either driving or walking. Ok, Toronto too.

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Alright, let's broach what some may find an uncouth question: Socialist Republic of Canada and Firearms...

 

I think that it is not only reasonable, but prudent to be armed when one is at times hours away from any prospect of aid from 'the officials'. The Beretta, AK and AR will stay at home - that's a given. But I have never been able to get a straight answer from the Canadians regarding regulations for a US Citizen to possess a 12GA pump shotgun, or say a 6-shot revolver into Canada. Anyone have experience with this? Or is prayer my best option in times of trouble?

 

I am sure you can't have a gun. Even hunters must ship their weapons to the outfitter and can only have them when undert he outfitter (guide) supervision.

 

You have nothing to worry about. You will be far safer up there tied to a logging camp full of drunk loggers, or at the dead end of some inlet, or even in the bars in Powell River or Nanaimo, than you would be hanging at your marina in Seattle behind a locked gate.

 

Like Sloopy says, use your flare gun if you get to close to a bear or cougar. Definitely came close to both hiking the woods around Desolation and have seen bear on the beach whil traversing Jervis inlet. But they are generally more scared of you than you are of them even.

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Like GW relates, we used to be able to carry weapons thru Canada, in the '70's we carried a handgun from Bellingham to Fairbanks via the Alcan hiway. It was declared. But you can't do that anymore. (they placed it in a sealed container, and you had to checkout before you left Canada into AK so theyo see that it was still in the sealed container they supplied)

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hmmm, WO! I would never have even guessed that was allowed. Actually, I guessed it wasnt allowed.

 

--edit to add-

 

I just read thru it and it says I can bring a handgun if it doesnt carry over 10rds. Is that correct?

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Norse, GW, thanks! I tried to dig around for this info in the past. Even called candian border patrol a few years ago, sat on hold for ever and didnt get any information. It sounds like our brothers to the north are not quite as draconian on the subject as many think. Only thing worrisome on that page is the statement that if a firearm is deemed to be 'prohibited', it will be confiscated and eventually destroyed without giving you the option to just leave back to the US with it. Who came up with this?

 

They had a few links to sites that were supposed to have information about what precisely is a 'prohibited' firearm. But none of the links had any information on the front page. Will need to look into this, or if one of you guys knows...

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Norse, GW, thanks! I tried to dig around for this info in the past. Even called candian border patrol a few years ago, sat on hold for ever and didnt get any information. It sounds like our brothers to the north are not quite as draconian on the subject as many think. Only thing worrisome on that page is the statement that if a firearm is deemed to be 'prohibited', it will be confiscated and eventually destroyed without giving you the option to just leave back to the US with it. Who came up with this?

 

They had a few links to sites that were supposed to have information about what precisely is a 'prohibited' firearm. But none of the links had any information on the front page. Will need to look into this, or if one of you guys knows...

Any sporting gun will be fine. No pistolas, even the locals are only allowed to transport from home to gun range only. Any gun with a magazine more than 5 will be seized, even if it is pinned to hold 5. No barrels less than 18 inches.

As noted you can borrow a locals gun and hunt with them,

Bring a downrigger, the sockeye run is expected to be big.

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Motorhomes with Texas plates have been flagged for searching at the border, I remember reading a newspaper story on that. Too many visitors bringing pistols or not declaring firearms into Canada. People carry up here in polar bear country. Visitors also tend to want to visit park areas and firearms get seized at park borders, too. Park rangers have all the power of RCMP officers, too. Big game is all guided hunting for non residents. I still enjoy some trap shooting and the range but don't find the time to hunt anymore. Some areas are remote here and in the off season other boaters are rare. However, there are logging camps and settlements of some kind in most areas and most people never pack more than bear spray. Bears encounters are usually at salmon time and they are too busy feeding and tolerant of other bears and humans, but still unpredictable. A good read is the story of "Cougar Annie", on Vancouver Island.

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I have always wondered what people plan to do with a gun for self defense on a boat that couldn't be done better with a few cans of pepper spray. Its not like your going to be shooting at people a hundred yards away, by the time you realize its a threat they will pretty much be on or in your boat.

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I think someone is confused. South of the USA is human predators, north is bears. The only time I have the 12 gauge aboard lately is when I am doing RC work. There is just not much of a chance of attack around Annapolis and I can't imagine Canada being any more dangerous.

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As Robin Williams put it "Canada is like a really nice apartment over a meth lab".

 

You are almost certainly safer in the woods here than downtown in any major metropolitan area in the USA. The bears & cougars here only have teeth & claws and are essentially afraid of us - they don't have 250,000,000 guns at their disposal.

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I am trying so hard from responding to the "guns cause violence" comments... Please do some reading on the subject!

 

BPW - given the option of a pepper spay bottle or a winch handle as a last means of self-defense, I would chose the latter any day. Pepper spay is in no way debilitating, does not stop attacks and is more there to make you feel secure than anything else. The vast majority of people who deploy the spray, end up at least partially getting themselves with it as well. Often this is unavoidable. Anyone who has been hit with it before and is determined to do you harm, will not be dissuaded by it at all - the spray is really not as bad as most people think. You may be able to surprise and turn a bear with it, but you run an equal chance of turning what was a bear that was trying to assert dominance, into a bear that now sees you as a threat, is pissed and determined to kill you. If you get into a fight, make sure that you can win! And deploying some limp-dick spray should always be followed by either running away quickly and/or fervent prayer. Even police-quality mace, which I understand is highly illegal in Canada, is ineffective as a self-defense tool against either man or beast.

 

A firearm is not only a defense tool. In the woods no form of signal will be noticed from a wider radius than a gunshot. I understand that sound travels well over water also. A Canadian I deeply respect, the SurvivorMan Les Stroud, demonstrated a number of methods of starting a fire with ammunition; I've tried all of them and sometimes teach them to others. And the idea of getting a small-game license for the augmentation of the seafood diet with some grouse, sounds awesome!

 

For what it's worth, I would not go unarmed into an unknown area of a major metropolitan US city either ;-)

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The "guns don't kill" debate is a non-starter. YOU should do some reading on those sprays - my son is a Mountie (cop) and has sprayed it and been sprayed by it (at the academy).

 

Theirs is EXTREMELY debilitating. A good shot in the face and you are blind and virtually helpless.

 

The civilian stuff, as you say, would probably just piss a bear off.

 

As for the guns - please keep them at home. We basically don't like them or want them here (and I'm an occasional trap & pistol shooter) :P;)

 

Like I said earlier, if you are nervous walking in the wild woods, take your flare gun - it will do all you say a firearm would.

 

By the way, don't even THINK about trying to smuggle a gun in - a while back a Texan couple tried it - they lost their guns, their motorhome and got hit with a $40K fine. IIRC they had quite an arsenal hidden onboard and were heading for Alaska but "just passing through" don't count. You don't get the option of turning around and going home either. An American shot one of our female border guards at Peace Arch a couple of years back so they are a mite unreasonable now - and THEY are armed now as well.

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I don't think anyone said guns cause violence, just that HUMAN predators preying on cruisers in Canada would be exceedingly rare, so that bringing a gun for that reason would be a waste of energy. I am not sure what to think about bears. The bears we have in Maryland would run off if you yell at them. A 12 gauge might be a good wilderness survival tool if it came to that.

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You're right - IMO the best wilderness survival weapon would be a fairly short (for convenience) double barreled 12 with a slug in one barrel and shot in the other. Wilderness surveyors used to be permitted to carry pistols because they needed their hands free - don't know if that still applies.

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Guns must be declared before entering canada. They prefer you to do it beforehand, but if you are honest and up front when asked at the border you won't get hassled. You'll just be doing a shit ton of paperwork. Shotguns and rifles with barrels over 18.5" are non restricted and will just need trigger locks for transport. Rifle mags cannot hold more than 5 rounds, unless they are rimfire. Pistols of any kind, any ar-15 variant, and shorter barreled carbines are restricted and won't be allowed. We don't have shall issue carry permits. You can't just strap a pistol to your hip in the woods. You need a wilderness carry permit and they are rarely given. Ccw is almost non existent. You can probably count the amount of ccw permits in canada with your fingers and toes. Pepper spray is considered prohibited, so don't carry any across the border. At best it will be taken away. At worst, you'll get sent home with an inadmissible flag in your info. Just buy it up here. If you are in canada for any great length of time you will need to get a license for your guns. I think the time is 60 days. Be aware than if you declare a shotgun and 20 shells, don't have a rifle and 500 extra rounds hidden away. They will search for more guns, and likely find them.

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Tyson, prohibited in canada means anything in 25 or 32 cal, any automatic or converted automatic. It also means anything semi auto converted or manufactured from automatic. Pistols under a certain barrel length become prohib too. There is also a laundry list of prohibited and restricted by name. All the info is on the canadian firearms program section of the rcmp web site. It's just a bitch to navigate, and i am on a cell phone so it's even worse.

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You're right - IMO the best wilderness survival weapon would be a fairly short (for convenience) double barreled 12 with a slug in one barrel and shot in the other. Wilderness surveyors used to be permitted to carry pistols because they needed their hands free - don't know if that still applies.

Similar to what my dad did for protection from Brown Bears. Before his first trip to Alaska, he bought what I have heard referred to as a riot gun. Two interchangeable barrels, one minimum legal length and the other sporting length. He always had the short barrel installed. Pump action and he removed the slug that restricts the magazine to I believe three shells for fowl hunting. I don't remember the amount, but he carried a mix of slugs and buck shot. They were never bothered by any, but any time they went ashore, they were wary of the Brown Bears. Some would show up on the beach right after they returned to their boat and they often saw very large fresh tracks.

 

In the late sixties, my dad and another fishing boat were transiting down a narrow channel near Pelican when they spotted a Brown Bear swimming. They circled it. It lunged at my dad's boat and missed, but did rake the side of the other boat and bit the ironbark rub rail and broke teeth.

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I am trying so hard from responding to the "guns cause violence" comments... Please do some reading on the subject!

 

BPW - given the option of a pepper spay bottle or a winch handle as a last means of self-defense, I would chose the latter any day. Pepper spay is in no way debilitating, does not stop attacks and is more there to make you feel secure than anything else. The vast majority of people who deploy the spray, end up at least partially getting themselves with it as well. Often this is unavoidable. Anyone who has been hit with it before and is determined to do you harm, will not be dissuaded by it at all - the spray is really not as bad as most people think. You may be able to surprise and turn a bear with it, but you run an equal chance of turning what was a bear that was trying to assert dominance, into a bear that now sees you as a threat, is pissed and determined to kill you. If you get into a fight, make sure that you can win! And deploying some limp-dick spray should always be followed by either running away quickly and/or fervent prayer. Even police-quality mace, which I understand is highly illegal in Canada, is ineffective as a self-defense tool against either man or beast.

 

A firearm is not only a defense tool. In the woods no form of signal will be noticed from a wider radius than a gunshot. I understand that sound travels well over water also. A Canadian I deeply respect, the SurvivorMan Les Stroud, demonstrated a number of methods of starting a fire with ammunition; I've tried all of them and sometimes teach them to others. And the idea of getting a small-game license for the augmentation of the seafood diet with some grouse, sounds awesome!

 

For what it's worth, I would not go unarmed into an unknown area of a major metropolitan US city either ;-)

 

I would highly recommend, you should focus your energy into, your anchoring skills, navigation skills, and general seamanship.

 

A firearm, wont help you troubleshoot an autopilot, or set an anchor properly, or help you make better navigational choices.

 

You should make sure you have good fishing gear, and crabbing gear, as you will be able too catch more than you can eat.

 

Cruising by sail, is all about leaving your "I would not go unarmed into an unknown area of a major metropolitan U.S. city either" attitude behind.

 

Can you fix or troubleshoot most of the systems on your boat? There's another great starting point. ;)

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I am trying so hard from responding to the "guns cause violence" comments... Please do some reading on the subject!

 

BPW - given the option of a pepper spay bottle or a winch handle as a last means of self-defense, I would chose the latter any day. Pepper spay is in no way debilitating, does not stop attacks and is more there to make you feel secure than anything else. The vast majority of people who deploy the spray, end up at least partially getting themselves with it as well. Often this is unavoidable. Anyone who has been hit with it before and is determined to do you harm, will not be dissuaded by it at all - the spray is really not as bad as most people think. You may be able to surprise and turn a bear with it, but you run an equal chance of turning what was a bear that was trying to assert dominance, into a bear that now sees you as a threat, is pissed and determined to kill you. If you get into a fight, make sure that you can win! And deploying some limp-dick spray should always be followed by either running away quickly and/or fervent prayer. Even police-quality mace, which I understand is highly illegal in Canada, is ineffective as a self-defense tool against either man or beast.

 

A firearm is not only a defense tool. In the woods no form of signal will be noticed from a wider radius than a gunshot. I understand that sound travels well over water also. A Canadian I deeply respect, the SurvivorMan Les Stroud, demonstrated a number of methods of starting a fire with ammunition; I've tried all of them and sometimes teach them to others. And the idea of getting a small-game license for the augmentation of the seafood diet with some grouse, sounds awesome!

 

For what it's worth, I would not go unarmed into an unknown area of a major metropolitan US city either ;-)

 

Cruising by sail, is all about leaving your "I would not go unarmed into an unknown area of a major metropolitan U.S. city either" attitude behind.

 

Great observation.

 

I have long felt that guns are more of a powerboat kind of thing anyway.

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I am trying so hard from responding to the "guns cause violence" comments... Please do some reading on the subject!

 

BPW - given the option of a pepper spay bottle or a winch handle as a last means of self-defense, I would chose the latter any day. Pepper spay is in no way debilitating, does not stop attacks and is more there to make you feel secure than anything else. The vast majority of people who deploy the spray, end up at least partially getting themselves with it as well. Often this is unavoidable. Anyone who has been hit with it before and is determined to do you harm, will not be dissuaded by it at all - the spray is really not as bad as most people think. You may be able to surprise and turn a bear with it, but you run an equal chance of turning what was a bear that was trying to assert dominance, into a bear that now sees you as a threat, is pissed and determined to kill you. If you get into a fight, make sure that you can win! And deploying some limp-dick spray should always be followed by either running away quickly and/or fervent prayer. Even police-quality mace, which I understand is highly illegal in Canada, is ineffective as a self-defense tool against either man or beast.

 

A firearm is not only a defense tool. In the woods no form of signal will be noticed from a wider radius than a gunshot. I understand that sound travels well over water also. A Canadian I deeply respect, the SurvivorMan Les Stroud, demonstrated a number of methods of starting a fire with ammunition; I've tried all of them and sometimes teach them to others. And the idea of getting a small-game license for the augmentation of the seafood diet with some grouse, sounds awesome!

 

For what it's worth, I would not go unarmed into an unknown area of a major metropolitan US city either ;-)

 

I would highly recommend, you should focus your energy into, your anchoring skills, navigation skills, and general seamanship.

 

A firearm, wont help you troubleshoot an autopilot, or set an anchor properly, or help you make better navigational choices.

 

You should make sure you have good fishing gear, and crabbing gear, as you will be able too catch more than you can eat.

 

Cruising by sail, is all about leaving your "I would not go unarmed into an unknown area of a major metropolitan U.S. city either" attitude behind.

 

Can you fix or troubleshoot most of the systems on your boat? There's another great starting point. ;)

 

Agreed, being attacked in the wilds of Canada is so far down the list of things to worry about as to essentially irrelevant.

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Thank you everyone for your advice.

 

I'd never dream of sneaking a firearm across the border. It would be a real dick thing to do. Like I said, I am a guest there and do my best to act like one. I do disagree with their rules, but they are THEIR rules in their country, so although I may try to educate them, I do not feel entitled to my rights while in Canada. In addition, I've been delayed in the purgatory house while the not-so-nice Mounties searched my car, twice. They did ask if I had any guns in about 20 different ways, what guns I owned, where they were, etc. Might have something to do with the fact that I am a ranked shooter with a unique name... Not looking forward that.

 

I have not had time to search for this yet, but it would be good to post a link to the 'prohibited' definitions page. I got $100 saying that the shotgun GW described was either a Mossberg 500, or a Remington 870. The Mossberg has been doing the dual barrel combos since for ever. I have the "Mariner" version which is Stainless Steel and nickel-plated. Problem is, with a tubular magazine there is not a set "capacity" - it depends on how long the shells are. With 3" shells it takes 5, but I think the 2 3/4 shells might fit 6 in there, making it prohibited. Yet the Mossberd is probably the most popular sporting shotgun out there and it would be hard to believe they would ban it.

 

And since there is no one to ask before you go, and if you are wrong at the border bad things happen, I feel like it's a mousetrap situation.

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I am a guest there and do my best to act like one.

 

That's exactly what I taught my kids when we were in the States when they were little - "Behave like you would in someone else's home".

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I am a guest there and do my best to act like one.

 

That's exactly what I taught my kids when we were in the States when they were little - "Behave like you would in someone else's home".

 

Clean out the liquor cabinet and collect all the spare change...

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Tyson, shotgun capacity is based on what the mag will hold. I have an 870 with a mag extension. Holds 6 2 3/4 rounds. Legal. My kel tec su16fx is supposed to use 5 round mags, but i can legally use 10 round lar-15 pistol mags in it. Pistol mags can be 10 rounds, and the law doesn't care that they fit a rifle too. Pistol mags in rifles are ok. Hi cap rifle mags in a pistol are prohibited. You can't use a steel lips 25 round mag in a ruger charger. Can't use mossberg 715t mags in the 715p. They must be pinned to 10. Pinned mags are not illegal. The pin must be permanent tho. I have mags with rivets, mags with larger followers, and mags with indents in them. All legal, and supposedly permanent.

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Thank you everyone for your advice.

 

I'd never dream of sneaking a firearm across the border. It would be a real dick thing to do. Like I said, I am a guest there and do my best to act like one. I do disagree with their rules, but they are THEIR rules in their country, so although I may try to educate them, I do not feel entitled to my rights while in Canada. In addition, I've been delayed in the purgatory house while the not-so-nice Mounties searched my car, twice. They did ask if I had any guns in about 20 different ways, what guns I owned, where they were, etc. Might have something to do with the fact that I am a ranked shooter with a unique name... Not looking forward that.

 

I have not had time to search for this yet, but it would be good to post a link to the 'prohibited' definitions page. I got $100 saying that the shotgun GW described was either a Mossberg 500, or a Remington 870. The Mossberg has been doing the dual barrel combos since for ever. I have the "Mariner" version which is Stainless Steel and nickel-plated. Problem is, with a tubular magazine there is not a set "capacity" - it depends on how long the shells are. With 3" shells it takes 5, but I think the 2 3/4 shells might fit 6 in there, making it prohibited. Yet the Mossberd is probably the most popular sporting shotgun out there and it would be hard to believe they would ban it.

 

And since there is no one to ask before you go, and if you are wrong at the border bad things happen, I feel like it's a mousetrap situation.

Here it is right from the official safety course. Remington 870 is my fav. There are ranges in places like Campbell River[nice web site] to visit, too.

http://www.firearms-safety-course.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=17&Itemid=23

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Things to Avoid Talking about in Bars and under the Influence in B.C.

 

want to open a Salmon Farm

 

want to build a pipeline from Alberta

 

are from Alberta and like the Calgary Flames

 

think the Vancouver Canucks suck and the Sedins should be traded

 

BC Ferries is a great service

 

BC Rail should have been privatised

 

Columbia River Treaty renegotiation

 

How bad the whiskey is here

 

Hope you make it up and enjoy the fall colours and all the waterfalls that re appear in the fall.

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But the canucks do suck, and bc ferries is great! They turned a $14 million profit last quarter by cutting sailings, and raising fares and surcharges! Wait til they increase fares and surcharges on all routes again for even more profit! Oh, and layoffs will help the bottom line too. Extra bonus to the ceo for that move.

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"...Coastal ferry users actually pay more than 90 per cent of the system’s operating costs, the Islands Trust argues. Transit users in Metro Vancouver pay 52 per cent of operating costs, according to TransLink, with the balance provided by taxpayers at large

http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Stephen+Hume+Rising+ferry+fares+service+cuts+economic+disaster/9483410/story.html


Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Stephen+Hume+Rising+ferry+fares+service+cuts+economic+disaster/9483410/story.html#ixzz3BBc4iseh

 

Loss of tourism story, some compelling reasons and comparisons like the new hydro line to the mine country up north. See what I mean, it will get you in a bar fight anywhere on Vancouver Island.

 

 

Dylan has this video, sailing about, winter boating, he can hear the ice going by his boat with the tide. That Dylan is hard core.

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Tyson, it's wonderful that you would be willing to educate us dunderhead Canadians on the idiocy of our gun control policies. The trouble is of course that we all move our lips when we read and so we can't seem to keep up on the brilliance of American gun control, foreign policy, social safety net etc etc. But please, we'd love it if you would take a few minutes in any of the watering holes you might stop at along the way to explain these things to us...but please, talk slowly, we won't want to miss a thing.

I'll just add a few things to the bear discussion, make lots of noise, look down when confronted and speak softly, back away slowly.

A bear that is yawning, rolling his head from side to side is being conciliatory. Do not use bear spray unless you absolutely have to, if the bear is charging you might have to.. but most of the stream keepers think flares are a much better option. Or you could shoot one in the leg and really have some fun.

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Also I have to add, Seymour Narrows is the most benign way to transit the Inside Passage. Pay attention to your tide book, arrange things so you get the biggest push for the longest time. The marinas in Campbell River are a good place to wait for the tide and the pubs are a great place to educate the northern idiots. You will want to do this for the whole inside passage. If you're bit late stick to the Maude Island side. Tide and wind, understand their interaction or stay home. I don't think anyone has mentioned Charlies Charts which is my favourite (oops, perhaps some kind American can correct my spelling). One of the most dangerous places on the coast and seldom mentioned in Guides is Cape Mudge. If you arrive there with a strong flood and a howling south easterly, gird your loins, failing that, shoot something. Obviously with a south easterly you will travel with the flood (up until you reach Mittlenatch) after that latitude you will want to travel north with the ebb to the top of Vancouver Is. Plan on lots of motoring. SE Alaska is a fucking blow mind but I plan for mid summer. Perhaps some Alaskan can give you better information on the suitability of the season (and what is fun to kill) "If it moves, shoot it, if it doesn't, cut it down).

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Clearly we need lessons in all kinds of things from our northern neighbors. Here we have hunting without firearms. The hunters then relax after collecting the dead seals and make fun of Alaskans killing everything :rolleyes:

Using a SOLAS handheld red flare to chase off a bear would likely work pretty well and the flares have other uses, so THAT one is good info.

Blog_Canadian_seal_hunt.jpg

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Actually, except for a tiny handful of people in the Maritimes and politicians too gutless to risk offending them, the rest of Canada is totally down on the seal hunt. A barbaric relic of the past. Luckily the rest of the world is civilized enough to refuse to buy the seal products so the hunt is dying a natural death.

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That is good news. I like seals. Someone found one on their back porch on the island I live on and my buddy saw some more off the end of the island, which is pretty unusual. We are kind of too hot and too far south for seals to be routine around here. No one shot at them that I know of either. They just don't resemble a deer quite enough to get plugged.

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That is good news. I like seals. Someone found one on their back porch on the island I live on and my buddy saw some more off the end of the island, which is pretty unusual. We are kind of too hot and too far south for seals to be routine around here. No one shot at them that I know of either. They just don't resemble a deer quite enough to get plugged.

So that's why we are finding bull sharks in the Potomac this year. They are after the seals.

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PMH, seriously dude, I am having trouble distinguishing good advice from the sarcasm, so I am not sure what to make of your posts.

 

Per guns, etc. I am REALLY trying to stay off that topic on this forum and you guys just won't let it go...

 

Consider my perspective - I immigrated to the US as a kid and a Political Refugee from the USSR. You have no room to teach me what gun control (the strongest, most heavy-handed and longest-lasting the world has ever known), social safety nets (in the bastion of socialism) and other such notions do to a nation/people/economy etc. Seeing the strong left swing that the US is undergoing (in phases) I fear that if I eat my spinach, I may live long enough to become a refugee for a second time. What worries me most is that I am just unsure of where I can go to where a man can be a man of his castle, stand his ground and raise his children without being forced by his government to support a dozen lazy asses who accomplish nothing with their lives, cause more harm than good, yet feel like I owe them something.

 

From what I can see, Canada is falling roughly into the Soviet economic model of unsustainable socialism funded by fiat currency and an over-abundance of raw natural resources. It is not sustainable.

 

"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." ― Margaret Thatcher.

 

And look where the UK is now...

 

We are likely on the same page when it comes to foreign policy though.

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Back to the OP question, I asked our old timers at the club and yes you will have to consider ice. They told me of being iced in at Chatterbox and having to wait until the powerboats broke the ice, to get out. This has happened in Indian Arm, near Vancouver, as well, some winters.

 

The tides meet at Middlenatch island in Georgia Strait. Nanaimo to Secret Cove is a good reach with a NW wind. If you wait for a SE wind you will have a fast passage north. North of Nanaimo winds seem to blow NW alot. There will be alot of wood in the water once the rains start in october so night passage may be a little hair raising,with some Douglas Fir pinstriping on your antifouling.

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Don't forget to practice anchoring, and general good seamanship, and actually be able to maintain and repair your boat, oh, and theres that fog issue as well.

 

But, what I really dont want to hear in the news is, that our coast guard is rescuing, another, crazy, Russian, American, smuggling small firearms, from Russia to America... one gun at a time. ;)

 

By even bringing up the gun issue, you really shot yourself in the foot...

 

now what was that sarcasm font again?

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From what I can see, Canada is falling roughly into the Soviet economic model of unsustainable socialism funded by fiat currency and an over-abundance of raw natural resources. It is not sustainable.

 

You blew any possible credibility with that "fiat currency" comment - that single expression brands you as a fanatical right winger - ALL currency is "fiat currency" - the gold standard disappeared nearly 45 years ago and it was a Republican (Nixon) who did it. That terms use now is the sole province of extreme right wingers who lack any real understanding of macro economics so they pine for the good old days of the gold standard.

 

And just by the way, Socialist/Soviet Canada is in a fuck of a lot better fiscal shape than the USA, as are Germany, the Scandinavian countries, Australia etc. - you know, all those socialist/soviet countries with their fiat currencies. Piss poor fiscal policy and management has nothing to do with political ideology, it's just bad management.

 

It's probably best that you stay home and cruise the islands of Puget sound - you wouldn't likely be happy here.

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Our socialism has reduced business taxes to the point that the capitalists of USA are now moving their head offices here. I think many Americans think socialism as being the same (interchangeable) with communism. Which is nonsense. Providing millions of jobs by building everything the US military needs for 50 or more years is basically state sponsored employment (that's communism). So let's get some perspective.

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Americans seem to widely perceive Social Democracy = Socialism = Collectivism = Communism = Stalinist dictatorship. The way the words are used essentially interchangeably indicates the distinctions mean little to them.

 

ALL elected government is "Socialist" - the rest is simply a matter of degree.

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Fall is my favorite time of year for cruising in the PNW. the San Juan's, gulf islands, Sunshine Coast or desolation are all awesome this time of year. Wish I was there right now!

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I am contemplating taking a 2-4 week cruise from Seattle up the BC inside passage in a J/35 . However, I have projects stacked up through mid-september. Is there a no-go season for this area and what is/are the limiting factors? Cold? Darkness? Weather? Ice?

 

How late is too late to go?

I'd like to expand this topic.: Next fall, I plan to sail my 40' Valiant from Seldovia, Alaska south to Mexico. I spend my summers in Alaska, but I don't know the weather patterns or prevailing winds down the entire West coast. If you have personal knowledge of any portion of this route, I would appreciate your input.

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Fall is my favorite time of year for cruising in the PNW. the San Juan's, gulf islands, Sunshine Coast or desolation are all awesome this time of year. Wish I was there right now!

 

We just got back on Sunday, after 3 weeks out. The weather was fabulous. This was our first visit back to Princess Louisa Inlet in 12 years or so, it hasn't changed a bit, except the visiting boats are all larger. That's a Bene Oceanis 50, for scale. :)

 

princess%2Blouisa.jpg

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For searching posterity and regarding the firearm issue:

 

Email to RCMP's Contact forum:

>>> Tyson >>>
Dear RCMP,

I am a citizen of the United States and have no citizenship/residency or any other affiliation with Canada, but would like to understand the proper procedure for potentially bringing a firearm with me into Canada on a trip that I am planning to take in the future.

I did a fair bit of research online and your website was helpful in answering a lot of the questions that I had. However I feel some ambiguity remains that I hope could be cleared up via this Q/A exchange.

My biggest fear is that it seems to me that if I declare a firearm in good faith believing that it is legal in Canada and the border agent processing my forms disagrees with my understanding of Canadian laws, I may have my firearm permanently confiscated and find myself deported, or worse. I want to avoid this situation and would like to have a clear understanding of what I can legally bring into Canada BEFORE I get to the border. I have a clean criminal record and never been asked to leave on my previous visits to Canada and would like to keep it that way.

The intention of my trip (to be planned for some time in the fall of next year) would be to traverse the inside passage via my sailboat. Potentially from Seattle through Desolation Sound and maybe farther north, maybe even into Alaska; then back to Seattle. I have never been to the area - my understanding is that it is rather remote and that being alone out there, having a defensive firearm may not be a bad idea. I am also interested in doing some upland bird, grouse and small-game hunting, per Canadian regulations. Procurement of hunting licenses and such seems to be rather clear - my main concern is with legally bringing a firearm across the border and not having that ruin my whole trip.

My understanding (and please correct me if I am wrong):
1. I must fill out Form RCMP 5589 - Non-Resident Firearm Declaration
2. Rifles/Shotguns may not have a magazine capacity of more than five rounds.
3. Pistols may not have a capacity of more than 10 rounds and have a barrel length of 6 or more inches.
4. Hunting and personal defense in wilderness areas are valid reasons for bringing a firearm into Canada.

Most of this info was gathered from reading RCMP's "Firearm Users Visiting Canada" memo - http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/PDF/visit-visite-eng.pdf

Questions:
I would like to bring a "Mossberg 500 JIC Mariner" shotgun. (http://www.mossberg.com/product/shotguns-pump-action-500-special-purpose-500-jic-jic-mariner/52340) It is a 12GA, pump-action, center-fire shotgun with a tube magazine. If I fill out the proper form and pay the fee, should I have any problems with bringing this firearm with me into Canada?

Magazine: When using 3" shells it has a magazine capacity for 5 in the magazine +1 in chamber. When using shorter non-standard shells, it is feasible to stuff 6 rounds in the magazine. The length of the magazine can be limited by installing a blocking rod, which I would be happy to do if that would put it in compliance with Canadian laws.

Stock: My shotgun (same as above) is fitted with a folding stock. It makes storage aboard easier when the stock is folded, yet makes it a viable firearm for hunting when the stock is extended. The overall length with the stock folded closed is about 28 inches. Unfolded, it is approximately 36 inches. If desired, I can change the stock to a non-folding, permanently-fixed verity, if the folding stock is a problem.

Ammo: Hunting regulations are clear regarding the types of shells and shot that can be used for various game. However, would there be any problem with me possessing 12GA 1oz lead slug, or 12GA 00-Buck shot ammunition?

****
Completely separate, but related question:

When hiking/backpacking in the back-country, it may be advantageous for me to carry a revolver, rather than the big shotgun.

The firearm I had in mind for this is a Ruger Super Redhawk Double-Action Revolver (http://www.ruger.com/products/redhawk/specSheets/5003.html)

It has a 6” or 7.5" barrel and capacity for 6 rounds.

Would I have any trouble declaring and bringing this into Canada?

- Please understand. I would like to visit Canada, I don't want to cause any problems and I don't want to have my trip ruined because I misunderstood something. Any clarification or advice that you may have regarding above issues is much appreciated.

------------------------------------------
Name: Tyson

 

 

Reply:

Thank you for your correspondence.

 

You are correct in completing the Non-Resident Firearm Declaration (form RCMP 5589) - a copy is attached to this e-mail.

 

The shotgun you are planning on bringing is found in our Firearms Reference Table known as a Mossberg 500 Cruiser and is classified as a non-restricted firearm. As long as the overall length of the firearm is over 26", it would still be classed as a non-restricted firearm. Therefore, you will have no problems bringing this firearm into Canada.

 

As for the number of shots that a pump action firearm are allowed to hold depends on the province in which you will be using the firearm. Please call the department of Environment of Land and Parks (Wildlife Branch) for British Columbia at 1-604-660-2421 for information. They will also provide the regulations on the type of ammunition allowed.

 

As for the revolver, the only reasons why visitors would be allowed to bring restricted firearms into Canada would be:

· Target shooting competition.

· Gun show.

· To go at a gun smith.

· Attend a historical reinactment.


I hope I have answered all your questions. Please feel free to contact us by e-mail or call our office at 1-800-731-4000 or 1-506-624-5380.

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Alright, let's broach what some may find an uncouth question: Socialist Republic of Canada and Firearms...

 

I think that it is not only reasonable, but prudent to be armed when one is at times hours away from any prospect of aid from 'the officials'. The Beretta, AK and AR will stay at home - that's a given. But I have never been able to get a straight answer from the Canadians regarding regulations for a US Citizen to possess a 12GA pump shotgun, or say a 6-shot revolver into Canada. Anyone have experience with this? Or is prayer my best option in times of trouble?

 

I would strongly suggest you shouldn't cruise anywhere, if you truly, really, believe you will need to defend yourself, best you stay home and watch reality TV.

+1

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