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Richard Jackson

2015 Moth AUS & World Championships (Jan 6th to 16th)

1,100 posts in this topic

 

LS.

 

Note that almost all OD classes eventually fade away.

 

Most "development" classes go on forever. Moths. I14s (more than 100years), 18's, 12's........

 

Note that the Europe is a OD spin-off from the Moth. How is it going now?

The classes that survive the test of time are the ones that allow sustainable development over the years. These include:

 

Star (104 years old)

A-Scow (100+)

 

Dragon (85)

Finn (65)

Flying 15 (60+)

Etchells (50)

 

There are no doubt many more examples, so you don't have to be a full-on development class to have longevity. In fact you can be a very strict one-design and flourish, not just survive.

For one design classes you just need enough people without imagination.

 

Moth class is 88 years old. It originally had two rules and only a few extras have been added. Its changed quite a a bit in that time due to some very cleaver and imaginative people. There are many more years still to come.

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Oh and name one other class where you can actually get your boat on a plane as checked luggage.In terms of freighting your boat around the world, there is no other class with as many options and it is cheaper to ship a moth in its box than it would be to ship any olympic class boat.

Foiling kiteboard.

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There are a very small number of foiling kite sailors who are faster than a good moth. Usually with bigger sail area. Its certainly an option for adrealine junkies. But a full kit of different kite sizes and foils is not that cheap, but obviously cheaper than a moth. We will see how it develops and who can master the new skills. I have seen some spectacular kite foil crashes and heard of some serious injuries. Going fast has its risks no matter what crafft.

 

The Moth started as a monohull dinghy and rules were added over time in response to threats that a faster format would take over. So now we have rules to ban catamarans, sailboard type hand held rigs, trifoilers, and we think our mast/sail height limits bans use of kite sails. After all previous cases where the class reacted with new restritions the moth has continued its development and exceeded the performance of the apparent treat. The catamaran and sailboard bans are now irrelevant, but there is no discussion about removing the bans. The multi foil catamarans have yet to prove faster, We will see if the kite foil developments keep pace with moth developments.

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Wasn't the BladeRider an OD attempt?

Kind of. It was intended to be a large scale build moth for the non-builders, like the Mach2 is, but with the added bonus of a potential one design contingent (yay, money), so, maybe the intent of the product was 50/50.

 

Had relations at BR not been as bad as they finished up being, the Mach2 probably would have been a 'Bladerider <something>', eventually, but probably much later than it was actually launched.

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For one design classes you just need enough people without imagination.

Perhaps more than a bit unfair. There are plenty of people whose attitude to all the challenges of developing a boat project, picking out suppliers, making things work together etc is simply **** that for a game of soldiers, I have enough complicated projects at the office, I just wanna go sailing. Wouldn't suit me, I doubt it would suit you, but I see nothing wrong with it.

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I watched the whole thing at work (thanks SA) and yay to being the boss (!) so next year nationals here in Perth - the weather will be good is practically guaranteed.

I am curious though, who had bragging rights on top speed, was Burlings foils that different? and exactly how much faster was Slingsby upwind... knots faster or just consistently fast o/all upwind

other than losing 15 years of my age I need to know what to aim for and what to build by xmas.!

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It will not grow much bigger than this if development, 3 foils at a regatta while testing 10 before, etc, etc is the key to winning. Titanium parts. The next tier of potential adoption wants the development "curve" to be flat or locked in. I would buy a boat tomorrow if I new what to "buy" and could have competitive equipment out of the box. The same thing is happening in the A class in it's effort to bring foiling (something I applaud for now).

 

Now if a one design single handed foiler came along, even better.

 

The Moth class will peak (basically already has, very small in the US) and eventually fall back down if your class keeps allowing broad development. You have achieved a great boat (albeit to delicate and incapable of handling chop). What more do you need? Lock it down and allow anyone to be competitive and the class would explode. Keep it going and you'll lose much of your gains...

This is probably true. And it is ok.

The moth made the foiling possible for a broad band of people. That is a great achievement.

now a one design class will grow out of this moth class (actually it is already there: mach 2, add 3 stock OD foils for different conditions.that's it. There is the one-design class.)

The moth will remain for the development freaks and sooner or later it will come up with a new breakthrough development and it will boom again.

For this current cycle i don't think the peak is reached yet. Even though the world's in japan might have slightly fewer participants.

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Perth - the weather will be good is practically guaranteed.

 

Not any more, you've already jinxed it.

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LS.

 

Note that almost all OD classes eventually fade away.

 

Most "development" classes go on forever. Moths. I14s (more than 100years), 18's, 12's........

 

Note that the Europe is a OD spin-off from the Moth. How is it going now?

The classes that survive the test of time are the ones that allow sustainable development over the years. These include:

 

Star (104 years old)

A-Scow (100+)

 

Dragon (85)

Finn (65)

Flying 15 (60+)

Etchells (50)

 

There are no doubt many more examples, so you don't have to be a full-on development class to have longevity. In fact you can be a very strict one-design and flourish, not just survive.

For one design classes you just need enough people without imagination.

 

Moth class is 88 years old. It originally had two rules and only a few extras have been added. Its changed quite a a bit in that time due to some very cleaver and imaginative people. There are many more years still to come.

This is completely ok. One design classes are not made to keep forever.

The Europe is a snapshot of the moth at the time. It made it cheaper and easier for a non-techie sailor.

The same might happen now. A OD class will grow out of the current moth development, but it won't stop the moth!

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I think the moth still has plenty of scope to develop. 5 or 10 years from now, it maybe something completely different! People who think the development has tapered may just need to think harder

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Perth - the weather will be good is practically guaranteed.

Not any more, you've already jinxed it.

On shit. Is it even worth organising the event now?

 

In all seriousness we are keen to have as many people come over next January.

 

I'm sat in a cheap motel on Adelaide on my way home, at the least I'll have a how to guide ready for those that want to drive over...

 

SW

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For this current cycle i don't think the peak is reached yet. Even though the world's in japan might have slightly fewer participants.

 

...some longer-term members might be relieved to see worlds #'s level off somewhat. Two fleets can cause quite a organizational clusterfark,no?

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There are a very small number of foiling kite sailors who are faster than a good moth. Usually with bigger sail area. Its certainly an option for adrealine junkies. But a full kit of different kite sizes and foils is not that cheap, but obviously cheaper than a moth. We will see how it develops and who can master the new skills. I have seen some spectacular kite foil crashes and heard of some serious injuries. Going fast has its risks no matter what crafft.

 

The Moth started as a monohull dinghy and rules were added over time in response to threats that a faster format would take over. So now we have rules to ban catamarans, sailboard type hand held rigs, trifoilers, and we think our mast/sail height limits bans use of kite sails. After all previous cases where the class reacted with new restritions the moth has continued its development and exceeded the performance of the apparent treat. The catamaran and sailboard bans are now irrelevant, but there is no discussion about removing the bans. The multi foil catamarans have yet to prove faster, We will see if the kite foil developments keep pace with moth developments.

 

The SD kiters and Bora have been talking about lining up on Facebook, Bora wants a max 9m kite restriction which seems a bit arbitrary as our class rules aren't the ones with the restriction. Ty seems up for it though. The top SF guys want to line up with some moths too but they always run away when they're around. We'd certainly win in the "strong wind" (>15?) but I'm not sure about 6-12 knots. Below 6 you probably win too as it gets too hard to fly a kite and we have no drifting "mode". Anyway, it's a class that's comparable in performance and is even easier to cart around compared to a Moth. The big difference is the kite world champs are paying for their gear. Bruce, did Jordan get his kite gear out at the worlds? Have you lined up with him in a moth when he's foiling?

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"The whole media thing is shocking" Good quote Clean, it was, I couldn't watching your interviews without cringing.

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Cool on the adjustable shrouds. Can someone tell me the primary point of sail where guys are using this? I find it hard to imagine they want the rig more upright going upwind unless it is quite light.

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Scott Babbage? And thanks for the picture, I had totally failed to notice the pink piece that actually does the work! I was wondering what the heck the carbon bit did.

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Scott Babbage? And thanks for the picture, I had totally failed to notice the pink piece that actually does the work! I was wondering what the heck the carbon bit did.

So what does the carbon bit do?

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Scott Babbage? And thanks for the picture, I had totally failed to notice the pink piece that actually does the work! I was wondering what the heck the carbon bit did.

So what does the carbon bit do?

.

...anchors and protects the lever.

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To Mr. Cool

I will gladly try and add images like this if you send me the pictures and we will enhance needed things :)

BTW any chance of Amac doing some short explanation on the new sails and the Lennon sails, booms etc.?

Fonty

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To Mr. Cool

I will gladly try and add images like this if you send me the pictures and we will enhance needed things :)

BTW any chance of Amac doing some short explanation on the new sails and the Lennon sails, booms etc.?

Fonty

 

I doubt Amac would give some explanation on the new lennons :D

 

My the way, my understanding on the development of the 16.3 and the latest Lennons (apart from getting ways to lower the rig with high clew, s boom versions, etc), is in finding the right balance between low drag top section when flattened and a more powerful top half when going easier on the kicket and downhaul.

 

I have a 2013 Hyde membrane (basically a step1 Lennon), and both my sail and the 16.1 are sails that are basically optimized to be very low drag and low capsizing moment in the top half. So they easily flatten in the top with kicker on and they twist and flatten with aggressive downhaul.

 

In the last couple of years I understand both Amac and Lennon are trying to get more powerful sections in the top couple of battens, to both have a nice "high" and slow mode upwind and mostly to go faster downwind. But this sails still have to go flatter in the top when going upwind, so that's why people are using more and more downhaul (12:1) and kicker (i've seen some 48:1 setups!).

 

That's my (limited) understanding :)

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To Mr. Cool

I will gladly try and add images like this if you send me the pictures and we will enhance needed things :)

BTW any chance of Amac doing some short explanation on the new sails and the Lennon sails, booms etc.?

Fonty

 

 

Not that much to say on sails really.

 

The end goal is:

- Widest possible wind range compatibility

- Maximum shape control across the sail's entire area

- Maximum height:power ratio

- Minimum tip drag

- Bring out a design every 6 months so you make more money

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There are a very small number of foiling kite sailors who are faster than a good moth. Usually with bigger sail area. Its certainly an option for adrealine junkies. But a full kit of different kite sizes and foils is not that cheap, but obviously cheaper than a moth. We will see how it develops and who can master the new skills. I have seen some spectacular kite foil crashes and heard of some serious injuries. Going fast has its risks no matter what crafft.

 

The Moth started as a monohull dinghy and rules were added over time in response to threats that a faster format would take over. So now we have rules to ban catamarans, sailboard type hand held rigs, trifoilers, and we think our mast/sail height limits bans use of kite sails. After all previous cases where the class reacted with new restritions the moth has continued its development and exceeded the performance of the apparent treat. The catamaran and sailboard bans are now irrelevant, but there is no discussion about removing the bans. The multi foil catamarans have yet to prove faster, We will see if the kite foil developments keep pace with moth developments.

The SD kiters and Bora have been talking about lining up on Facebook, Bora wants a max 9m kite restriction which seems a bit arbitrary as our class rules aren't the ones with the restriction. Ty seems up for it though. The top SF guys want to line up with some moths too but they always run away when they're around. We'd certainly win in the "strong wind" (>15?) but I'm not sure about 6-12 knots. Below 6 you probably win too as it gets too hard to fly a kite and we have no drifting "mode". Anyway, it's a class that's comparable in performance and is even easier to cart around compared to a Moth. The big difference is the kite world champs are paying for their gear. Bruce, did Jordan get his kite gear out at the worlds? Have you lined up with him in a moth when he's foiling?

Yes. He only uses a 6m even in 6knots as that is all he needs to get going. He is much deeper downwind, but from memory he is lower upwind.

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Unfortunately there aren't many photos of the homebuilt moths in the galleries.

Here's a nice shot of the foiling scow lowriding.

http://www.thmartinez.com/15-002525-ThMartinez-Sea-Co-SORRENTO-VICTORIA-AUSTRALIA-8-January-2015-International-Moth-Australian-National-Championship-Day-2-174-FRENCH-James-AUS-,fr,igf648p96n7.html

Here's mine

 

10887236_10155070731785375_1165585301378

I hope the Victorian tourism bureau don't try and use that as a promo pic, "sorrento in summer - grey, raining and super windy"

 

SW

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I do like the lines of the monstro. Are there any others out there now?

 

Also, I thought you had a Macita Bruce? Have I got that wrong or were you not using it due to the conditions? The few of us that have them in the UK tend to prefer it in the flat as it's a weapon but in the waves we often resort back to the Mach 2 small. I imagine the Mactia could be quicker but I'm not good enough. No doubt Mr Lister was smashing around on it all week in whatever weather.

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I do like the lines of the monstro. Are there any others out there now?

 

Also, I thought you had a Macita Bruce? Have I got that wrong or were you not using it due to the conditions? The few of us that have them in the UK tend to prefer it in the flat as it's a weapon but in the waves we often resort back to the Mach 2 small. I imagine the Mactia could be quicker but I'm not good enough. No doubt Mr Lister was smashing around on it all week in whatever weather.

 

There's one more being sailed at St. George. No idea where Nathan's old boat is.

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I do like the lines of the monstro. Are there any others out there now?

 

Also, I thought you had a Macita Bruce? Have I got that wrong or were you not using it due to the conditions? The few of us that have them in the UK tend to prefer it in the flat as it's a weapon but in the waves we often resort back to the Mach 2 small. I imagine the Mactia could be quicker but I'm not good enough. No doubt Mr Lister was smashing around on it all week in whatever weather.

I didn't have time to finish the vertical for the worlds, the foil I used was thrown together from old bits in the shed, and yes, yes he was so the Macita will come soon.

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I do like the lines of the monstro. Are there any others out there now?

 

Also, I thought you had a Macita Bruce? Have I got that wrong or were you not using it due to the conditions? The few of us that have them in the UK tend to prefer it in the flat as it's a weapon but in the waves we often resort back to the Mach 2 small. I imagine the Mactia could be quicker but I'm not good enough. No doubt Mr Lister was smashing around on it all week in whatever weather.

There's one more being sailed at St. George. No idea where Nathan's old boat is.

Nathan still owns his Monstro, and he is currently doing some upgrades I think it is still in San Fran. Tim Forbes-Smith also owns a Monstro in St George. There is one in Italy that has just been finished and is sailing as well.

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The wings are three moulded corners, the front moulded frame and four straight tubes. CST made all the mouldings and I put the whole thing together and painted it. The front wing frame is one moulded piece of pure carbon porn, that still required around 24 hours to fit sleeves, fittings, custom carbon tangs and paint.

The wings really make the boat. Straight, round wings are so 2004.

If I had to make them by hand, I would only mould the front corner and use straight elyptical tubes. So the end result would still be similar, but not as sexy.

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Why aren't guys running foil-shaped wing bars?

 

Some do.

 

Bruce will confirm, analysis shows that round, elliptical and foil shape wing bars are all extremely similar in terms of drag, especially between elliptical and foil (BR's and M2's have elliptical forward wing bars, M2's have elliptical struts too), it's not worth the effort. Making a foil shaped wing bar that's as stiff as an HM round (vertically) and also as light is very difficult and very expensive. It's not worth it.

 

Far more gains are to be made in foil shapes, sail shapes, wing tramp shapes, etc.

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Everyone is busy streamling all the stuff which has been on moths for 20 years. There are bigger gains to be had by eliminating all that stuff altogether, by reconfiguring what a moth looks like to better suit the new speeds and the new larger % that windage makes to overall drag.

 

With Mc/Mc busy getting the design and producion of the Waszp underway, and with Mach2 still the winning option, I doubt there will be a new concept from AMAC so the field stays open for someone else to jump in with a breakthrough.

 

Two things at Sorrento looked to have potential:

Chris and Arnaud's bent booms lowered the CoE and attempetd to seal the foot of the sail to the deck. Execution was restrited by the Mach2 configuration and Arnaud's broken S boom, but it seems a logical way to go.

The scows with twin foils did not work but a lot of people could see that when they get the foils right and it does work, they will have near double the righting moment and half the windage of the standard setup. Jim and Ian will continue development and hope to get a lot closer to the rest of the fleet soon.

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Why aren't guys running foil-shaped wing bars?

Some do.

 

Bruce will confirm, analysis shows that round, elliptical and foil shape wing bars are all extremely similar in terms of drag, especially between elliptical and foil (BR's and M2's have elliptical forward wing bars, M2's have elliptical struts too), it's not worth the effort. Making a foil shaped wing bar that's as stiff as an HM round (vertically) and also as light is very difficult and very expensive. It's not worth it.

 

Far more gains are to be made in foil shapes, sail shapes, wing tramp shapes, etc.

Whilst I am not going to do the entire fleets homework for them, this is exactly what the analysis shows.

 

The top 5% all had full foil sections and this is where the gains are needed. Everyone else just needs to pull off one more foiling tack before they worry about aero.

 

Interestingly the winners boat had no areo mods from a standard M2.

 

Also. Sharper hurts more when you hit it.

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I do like the lines of the monstro. Are there any others out there now?

 

Also, I thought you had a Macita Bruce? Have I got that wrong or were you not using it due to the conditions? The few of us that have them in the UK tend to prefer it in the flat as it's a weapon but in the waves we often resort back to the Mach 2 small. I imagine the Mactia could be quicker but I'm not good enough. No doubt Mr Lister was smashing around on it all week in whatever weather.

There's one more being sailed at St. George. No idea where Nathan's old boat is.

Nathan still owns his Monstro, and he is currently doing some upgrades I think it is still in San Fran. Tim Forbes-Smith also owns a Monstro in St George. There is one in Italy that has just been finished and is sailing as well.

Do you know who has/where is the monstro in Italy (also pm if you want)? I'd love to see it for real.

 

Awesome looking boat from the photos,by the way (blu paint too!) :)

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Hi,

 

Can anyone tell me how the wing bar cleats are attached to the front wing bar? would really appreciate it.

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Hi,

 

Can anyone tell me how the wing bar cleats are attached to the front wing bar? would really appreciate it.

Simple, just a carbon plate bonded to the wing bar with cleats on top.

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Hi,

 

Can anyone tell me how the wing bar cleats are attached to the front wing bar? would really appreciate it.

Simple, just a carbon plate bonded to the wing bar with cleats on top.

 

Thanks

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Hi,

 

Can anyone tell me how the wing bar cleats are attached to the front wing bar? would really appreciate it.

Simple, just a carbon plate bonded to the wing bar with cleats on top.

 

Thanks

Bonded and then laminated, a few fell off with only spabond.

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Hi,

 

Can anyone tell me how the wing bar cleats are attached to the front wing bar? would really appreciate it.

Simple, just a carbon plate bonded to the wing bar with cleats on top.

 

Thanks

Bonded and then laminated, a few fell off with only spabond.

They really need to come out with cleats that are built to be glued on. Fasteners are so heavy!

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Two things at Sorrento looked to have potential:

Chris and Arnaud's bent booms lowered the CoE and attempetd to seal the foot of the sail to the deck. Execution was restrited by the Mach2 configuration and Arnaud's broken S boom, but it seems a logical way to go.

The scows with twin foils did not work but a lot of people could see that when they get the foils right and it does work, they will have near double the righting moment and half the windage of the standard setup. Jim and Ian will continue development and hope to get a lot closer to the rest of the fleet soon.

Yah that endplate thing doesn't really work until you get it sealed. And then you would want it coupled right down to the water also. but the lower CE thing seems valid. Go the scow.

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High boom also helps in tacking and jibing,I also think you can get a tad more forward section with this added area.

fonty

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Is the boom actually higher in back? Looked like about the same to me.

 

Flow is so confused behind foredeck and mast stump i doubt much more drive will come from there unless as phil mentions the foredeck goes away entirely.

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On the Swiss boats with the S shaped booms, the goosneck, sail limit band, mast top and bottom, stump and compression strurts are all lower. Lower CoG and CoE. Rear of boom about the same as normal so leach is actually shorter than normal which might be a negative.

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you might be right doesn't look like much but does give some space...

2zfmrzc.png

Your missing that the sails aren't necessarily standard. The clew is cut higher if more boom room is needed.

 

Also the mast stump is shorter lowering the whole rig so the boom Z is a more open angle.

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This was the standard up until a few years ago when everybody stopped blogging.

 

Awesome recap of his worlds, by Chris Rashley:

 

http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/181037/Chris-Rashley-reflects

 

It's really impressive what he achieved, considering his phisical problems

I blame Dave Lister, Mr. "Bloggers Lose". I guess he won the Masters title, so maybe he's right.

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Wrap up video from Beau, looking forward to seeing the Baggin' The Corners Cup video soon too:

 

 

...excellent coverage...way to go Clean,,it looks like your production team really hit-on the timeline! :)

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I think the most interesting video to come out of the 7 or 8 other productions was this one from the Japanese checking out some of the boats on the beach and speaking to their skippers. Unfortunately most of it is in Japanese though, but a picture tells a thousand words they say:

Links to most of the videos can be found on the Australian Moth website: www.moth.asn.au

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Bets Video yet! and it did explain the thought behind the bend boom/lower CE/End plate effect.

and to Kazuhsige Nakajima you deserve the credit for in depth analysis! (I wish I spoke Japanese...)

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Wrap up video from Beau, looking forward to seeing the Baggin' The Corners Cup video soon too:

 

 

...excellent coverage...way to go Clean,,it looks like your production team really hit-on the timeline! :)

This video is from Beau Outteridge not Clean. Please give credit where credit is due.

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What about fixed tips on foils? Is it faster? Anyone using it?

What about them ? It depends. Yes.

 

My main question is what is the thinking behind them. Does it decrease the drag of the foil by much?

who was using it at the worlds? I dont thing Burling or Nathan were.

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No idea who was using what foils, except obviously that big ones are the go in the light and small ones are the go in the heavy.

 

The new Mach2 high lift foil was popular on the light days but it has small tip plates and full span flap movement.

 

Fixing the flaps at the tips was out of the discussion this year becasue its been found to work best in smooth water, and Sorrento was mostly rough. The Makita was the first with the feature and when Bora won with it in Hawaii a lot of people glued up their Mach2 foil tips. I know at least Dave Lister and Luka Damic used their Makita this year but not sure about how many others.

 

The beneft is that the lack of flap movement near the tip is less drag and less likley to induce adverse tip turbulance or flow separation. The disadvantage is that the flap is less effective and less powerful which can cause a crash in rough stuff.

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Can someone comment please on what broke? My impression up to this point had been that the M2 stuff was fairly robust but Bruce's earlier comment got me wondering whether it was vertical foils or horizontals or gantries or rigs that were breaking. I'm guessing all of the above, but if foils are breaking then someone please comment on the failure locations and modes. Thanks.

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The relativly new longer Mach2 rudders and centreboards break too often. Several failed and some might have been from hitting the bottom but not all of them. It was shallow even on the course and some crashes went pretty deep. I think they sold out of spares. AMAC and the factory are looking at why.

A few masts broke from hitting the bottom after capsizes.

A few gantries failed, although Bora's was from a collision.

A couple of wing bars broke. A lot of home made bits failed.

Some add ons like wing mounted cleat plates fell off. A few bodies went through sails.

I saw two broken booms, not M2 standard.

A lot of little bits and pieces getting fixed every day in the SOS workshop, but few standard Mach2 items.

For 160 boats in pretty violent collisions the damage total was pretty light.

Most people went through the regatta without damage.

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To add to what Phil said. The main reason there were failures was simply that the gear was taking a pounding.

 

I am guessing that a lot of people's control gear now has a lot of miles and time on it, and the cheapest way is to only replace it when it breaks.

 

In addition, the newer foils are pushing the material limits further as the are getting thinner and smaller in chord section. Which is great for lowering drag but also makes them more prone to breakage.

 

For example a good wack on the bottom with any anhedral rudder will try and break it, regardless who makes the rudder.

 

I was personally very happy that this was the first regatta since I started foiling that I have made it through with zero breakages of any kind on my home built gear, and all my shed time was helping others.

 

Especially since I only has 2 hours of sailing in my boat before it was packed up for Sorrento.

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Wand axle in the M2 bow mechanism was the big failure point, series ruined for Ashby, Gough and I think goodison by axle failures. I believe Ashby broke 3. Countless others in fleet too, possibly a bad batch as the old ones are still fine.

 

M2 will need to work on build for long verticals and small rudders, a few too many failures which can be avoided. Possibly why oracle boats and babbage ran there own verticals and rudders but guessing.

 

All in all not that many failures when you consider the number of boats and conditions but certainly room for improvement on a few things. I saw a interview with amac saying as much and they would be improved.

 

Saw breakages on the new prowlers too.

 

fixed tips about since before hawaii with many variations, no idea what people actually ran in the races. I believe burling had a early lift, a small fixed and a survival foil?

 

I wonder if m2 will consider bringing out a smaller high aspect main foil.

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I only saw one broken mast(Phil) and with the exception of josh who hit the mark at pace the only broken booms I saw were bent already. Given the conditions and the shallow bottom I wonder if any other classes rigs would prove that robust with 160 boats

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My mast broke when I capsized between races in in very rough and shallow water, 4nm out from the club near a huge channel marker, right at the Silver fleet start line where I expected the water to be much deeper. Lasy capsize when it should not have mattered, waves rolled mast deeper than normal, mast hit bottom, wave bounced boat, bang!! Fortunatley a quick and relatively easy rescue and a long tow home, and since the race I was waiting for was delayed an hour, I rigged my spare mast and did not even miss the next start.

Not a boat or mast problem. There was a lot of other damage done by misadventure or misjudgement.

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I wonder why anhedral rudders break, apart from the twisting moment? Surely they are not twisting the vertical apart, but failing along the lifting foil span somewhere?

 

Thanks for the replies.

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The first edition of small M2 anhedral rudder foils were very light laminate and would break if you bumped the bottom getting on or off the boat near the shore. I broke mine before I had even sailed with it. I repaired it/broke it twice more before I made something better based on the bulb and stub. I would expect the later editions were thicker laminate.

There was so much shallow water near the shore and even on the course that I suspect many of the foil breakages were from bottoming out.

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My small M2 rudder anhedral foil blew up in the heat on the beach. I was very careful not to expose it to direct sun, but the heat did it anyway. Saw another with the same problem. Amac said he had withdrawn selling them until they sorted it out. Bloodly fast foil though, made it a bit harder to foil tack, but worth having!

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Just found this final highlights reel by the media team of Sailing Anarchy uploaded 2 days ago.



Amazing coverage, well done Alan and Petey and everyone else in your team. Am glad you came and added another dimension to what was an incredible event.




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Just wanted to put this up one last time for everyone's convenience. This is of course not everything (though it is the lion's share of the Sperry/Sailing Anarchy/Line Honors output, and please feel free to copy and paste into your own post with modifications if you have something to add.

 

Sailing Anarchy’s ULTIMATE GUIDE to the 2015 Moth Worlds

 

Photo Galleries

 

Practice Race: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10155042478055375.1073741828.155344415374&type=3

Day1: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10155062183570375.1073741829.155344415374&type=3

Day 2: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10155064169415375.1073741830.155344415374&type=3

Boat Bits and Pieces (Most popular gallery of the week)

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10155066422010375.1073741831.155344415374&type=3

Layday Adventures: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10155076821925375.1073741834.155344415374&type=3

Day 4: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10155070247550375.1073741833.155344415374&type=3

Day 5: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10155077660800375.1073741835.155344415374&type=3

 

 

Highlight Reels

 

Preview: https://vimeo.com/116373898

Day 1: https://vimeo.com/116443825

Day 2: https://vimeo.com/116488276

Day 3: https://vimeo.com/116589373

Day 5: https://vimeo.com/116889141

Day 6: https://vimeo.com/116962737

Final: “Real Reel”: https://vimeo.com/118897750

 

Sailing Anarchy “Innerviews”

 

Pete Burling, World Champ!:

Female World Champ Sam England: https://vimeo.com/117151282

3rd Overall Josh McKnight: https://vimeo.com/117147286

AMAC Grand Master World Champ and the Waszp: https://vimeo.com/117342306

Junior World Champ and The Grommets: https://vimeo.com/117233086

Bora: https://vimeo.com/117228383

Master World Champ Lister: https://vimeo.com/117171103

Chris Rashley: https://vimeo.com/117156789

Brian Sherring, Scow Moth Part 2: https://vimeo.com/117154986

Peter Osbourne, Regatta Chair: https://vimeo.com/116666249

Nathan Outteridge, AUS 1: https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10155042627825375&set=vb.155344415374&type=3&theater

Dave Loring, USA 4006: https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10155042627825375&set=vb.155344415374&type=3&theater

Tom Slingsby, AUS 4133: https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10155062757520375&set=vb.155344415374&type=3&theater

George Peet, USA 4163: https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10155062919820375&set=vb.155344415374&type=3&theater

Pat Wilson, USA 4164: https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10155062927145375&set=vb.155344415374&type=3&theater

Andrew MacDougall, AUS 4300 https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10155062950230375&set=vb.155344415374&type=3&theater

Jack Sherring, AUS 3717:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10155062996330375&set=vb.155344415374&type=3&video_source=pages_video_set

Simon 'S.O.S.', Keeper of the Moth Boatyard: https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10155062996330375&set=vb.155344415374&type=3&theater

Brian Sherring, Scow Moth Sailor:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10155063224140375&set=vb.155344415374&type=3&theater

Kohei Kajimoto,JPN 4095: https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10155063236070375&set=vb.155344415374&type=3&theater

Andrew'AMAC’ McDougall: https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10155063238895375&set=vb.155344415374&type=3&theater

Leigh MacMillian, GBR 4148: https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10155063238895375&set=vb.155344415374&type=3&theater

Ray Davies, NZL 4237: https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10155063238895375&set=vb.155344415374&type=3&theater

Scott Babbage, AUS 4: https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10155063238895375&set=vb.155344415374&type=3&theater

Rosie Collins, AUS 3641: https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10155063238895375&set=vb.155344415374&type=3&theater

Freddie Loof, NOR 4231: https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10155063238895375&set=vb.155344415374&type=3&theater

George Peet, USA 4163: https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10155063238895375&set=vb.155344415374&type=3&theater

Pete Burling:

Rohan Veal:

Mark Robinson, Class Measurer:

Frank Raisin, First Moth Foiler in 1972:

 

 

Live Coverage

 

Day 1:

Day 2:

Day 3:

Day 4:

Day 5:

Day 6:

 

Facebook Pages:

https://www.facebook.com/SailingAnarchy

https://www.facebook.com/sperrytopsider

https://www.facebook.com/PenaltyBoxProductions

https://www.facebook.com/SandervanderBorchPhotography

https://www.facebook.com/sailorgirl18

 

 

SA Feature Stories:

1/14/15

http://sailinganarchy.com/2015/01/14/the-hunt-is-on/

http://sailinganarchy.com/2015/01/14/whos-the-boss/

1/13/15

http://sailinganarchy.com/2015/01/13/the-rundown-2/

1/12/15

http://sailinganarchy.com/2015/01/12/not-normally-like-this/

http://sailinganarchy.com/2015/01/12/about-face/

1/11/15

http://sailinganarchy.com/2015/01/11/golden-boys-and-girls/

http://sailinganarchy.com/2015/01/11/psycho-sunday/

http://sailinganarchy.com/2015/01/11/super-sunday/

1/10/15

http://sailinganarchy.com/2015/01/10/i-will-survive/

http://sailinganarchy.com/2015/01/10/remains-of-the-day-2/

http://sailinganarchy.com/2015/01/10/this-aint-livin/

http://sailinganarchy.com/2015/01/09/youth-of-tomorrow/

 

 

 

 

 

 

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No wonder we felt busy :P

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what does that mean?

 

No mention of the Corinthian champ?

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Nice video.

 

The BG/RIB crash seems to be caught on tape and maybe tells an interesting story.

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Shirley told us they were not filming when they ran him over. The RIB driver said the opposite in the room. I hate liars.

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Its only a few seconds of video and no way do I want into the blame game, but,

 

it looks like they were filming or ending or preparing to, not sure how the RIB drive would know if they were filming given the set-up (looking forward and to windward w camera man behind him), but also given the relative speeds and courses its not clear the RIB had any chance at all to avoid. The very limited clip maybe sugests that only BG could have avoided that crash. They were darn close to but not quite stationary when BG comes flying in from behind the RIB on almost the same but slightly deeper line.

 

Not sure who is the bigger liar here.

 

Oh and Clean, if I am looking at the right portion of the clip (around 13:40) there is no way that is even remotely fairly described as "they ran him over." Come on.

 

Like I said, nice vid and interesting clip of the BG/RIB crash.

 

Over and out!

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Its only a few seconds of video and no way do I want into the blame game, but,

 

[snip]

Oh and Clean, if I am looking at the right portion of the clip (around 13:40) there is no way that is even remotely fairly described as "they ran him over." Come on.

Which video are you looking at?

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Corinthian champ is basically amateur champ. It was a new trophy at the 2014 worlds won by tom offer. Maybe no one returned the trophy or maybe everyone just thought it was crap?!

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Or the organisers didn't feel they had a true grasp of who really was a pro sailor or not.

 

How did they determine who was a pro or not? They asked them at registration and took that as gospel. I didn't query it, but when they asked me "are you a pro sailor" I said no (I'm not btw). Under the column marked Corinthian I had No written next to my name. Perhaps if this happened 20 or 30 times more then the organisers really didn't know what was pro or not?

 

Without a clear definition of what a pro sailor is in the context of Moth sailing, it's a bit hard to give an award out for it.

 

But then again they gave the junior award to a 22yr old so who knows what was going on...

 

SW

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Its only a few seconds of video and no way do I want into the blame game, but,

 

it looks like they were filming or ending or preparing to, not sure how the RIB drive would know if they were filming given the set-up (looking forward and to windward w camera man behind him), but also given the relative speeds and courses its not clear the RIB had any chance at all to avoid. The very limited clip maybe sugests that only BG could have avoided that crash. They were darn close to but not quite stationary when BG comes flying in from behind the RIB on almost the same but slightly deeper line.

 

Not sure who is the bigger liar here.

 

Oh and Clean, if I am looking at the right portion of the clip (around 13:40) there is no way that is even remotely fairly described as "they ran him over." Come on.

 

Like I said, nice vid and interesting clip of the BG/RIB crash.

 

Over and out!

Wess, the bigger question is why Bora would be sailing with Leigh MacMillian's sail. I'd bet good money that's not the crash, boat, or sailor in question.

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The top sailor without a job in the sailing or boat industry was probably Rob Gough (15th), (but last year he was deemed not eligible for some reason when he finished one place ahead of Tom Offer), if not, further down its probably Nils Akervall (24th) or Gian Ferrighi (27th) who was also best Junior despite the presentation. With no clear definition of what is an amateur the award is also vague. I doubt any of these people missed the award.

 

The regatta was ruined by the weather, the committee did well to get enough racing to make a championship. There were errors and things which some people thought could have been done better, and thats excusable and thats normal, no ones perfect.

 

All the fuss about Bora is from Mr Clean, Bora lost no racing and the boat was repaired. Bora has not made any comments himself, and it did not affect his regatta result.

 

Clean's videos and interviews are a great record of an amazing regatta. Done with minimal gear and no impact on the sailing. I really liked Clean's interview where the Junior awards were correctly re allocated.

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Corinthian champ is basically amateur champ. It was a new trophy at the 2014 worlds won by tom offer. Maybe no one returned the trophy or maybe everyone just thought it was crap?!

 

The Corinthian award was presented at presentation to David Lister

 

 

 

But then again they gave the junior award to a 22yr old so who knows what was going on...

 

That guy had filled his date of birth out incorrectly in his entry I was told, we didn't do identification checks at registration so the OC were not to know as embarrassing as it was.

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But then again they gave the junior award to a 22yr old so who knows what was going on...

That guy had filled his date of birth out incorrectly in his entry I was told, we didn't do identification checks at registration so the OC were not to know as embarrassing as it was.

Ahhhh, there is always more to a story!! :-)

 

Probably fair enough that if you are going to enter an aged based aspect of the event that you should be expected to back it up with a Drivers license or passport to verify at registration. An interesting lesson learnt there for all of us.

 

Cheers

 

SW

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Wess, the bigger question is why Bora would be sailing with Leigh MacMillian's sail. I'd bet good money that's not the crash, boat, or sailor in question.

 

 

Ah, you are correct. My bad. That clip was appended to the BG interview and so I assumed without checking. That is why I was asking if I was looking at the right thing at about 13:40. Did not seem to match up w the reports. Thanks for the head's up.

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All the fuss about Bora is from Mr Clean, Bora lost no racing and the boat was repaired. Bora has not made any comments himself, and it did not affect his regatta result.

 

 

 

 

 

Actually, pre crash Bora was getting decent finishes, single digits for the most part. Post crash he was sailing around in the cheap seats piling on points. And he did make comments himself as seen in the interview we did with him later that evening ( which is in the final video) To say it did not affect his regatta result I believe just not true. The crash most certainly affected him and his overall result.

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