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Richard Jackson

2015 Moth AUS & World Championships (Jan 6th to 16th)

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1. Hiroki Goto JPN

2. Chris Draper GBR

3. Peter Burling NZL

4. Blair Tuke NZL

5. Tom Johnson, AUS (we think)



super light air, Outteridge very deep, Slingers didnt start (i dont think), several big names gone and would not be surprised if RC gets protested. will be interesting either way



65 kg and Hiroki Goto was crushing. bit of questionable pumping tho

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Good interview with Jack Sherring. Clean does know Jack has 3 Moth World Junior championships under his belt, right?

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Adjusting expectations to reality is part of the game. Just don't believe all the pre show hype. (I think that the sponsors have a good idea for what they signed up.)

 

It's easy to spot problems from the outside, advice adjusted to financial reality is not that hard either. It may work, may not. Certainly unsolicited advice is annoying. :D If it gets thought about or even tried - great. If not - so what.

 

What I like to see is improvement.

The BWR is certainly showing some. No idea why they had such variations in their production value for the different languages in the first place but they are getting there. Every day something gets changed for the better.

The VOR.... There some changes on the boats which are great. Telling stories, having an overall concept. In the studio there are some obvious problems since day one. Some could be fixed for zero money and minimal effort - does not happen.

 

Todays coverage improved quite a bit.

For the moment: Change the permanent postponement information to the small lower left corner overlay. That should help a bit with the interviews. Keep the names in the big one. (Can't post YT comments through the proxy.)

 

Currently ~170 viewers in the interviews.

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thanks. Seemed a shame to race in that, but stoked to see the kiwi 'young guns' up there

+1

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Fuck the nay sayers, the coverage is great so keep it coming, its not just those overseas who are digging it, even us locals that cant get there are enjoying.

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Live stream seems to be in a replay loop. Lunch time?

 

There is not enough wind. Racing is postponed, boats send to the beach. Not yet abandoned for the day.

 

Clean was planning a talk show for the spare day, they may try that today. Depends on what happens with the remaining races and and if they can setup something.

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How many scows and other low-riders were there in the qualifiers?

 

If G.Peet is correct in that interview, foilers seem to get the shaft when the RC has to start a Worlds race in a drifter because of the low-riders.

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There are 7 scows, all in silver fleet.

 

The winner of todays race 1, gold fleet foiled distance. Weighting in at ~73kg Hiroki Goto is not the lightest guy either.

Place 3 in the same race, Pete Burling said IIRC that he foiled 3/4 of the distance. Said that he was heavier than in Hawaii. ~82kg

 

Tom Slingsby did not make to the start in time.

 

 

There are no hard lower wind limits, only guidances for championships.

 

One arguments is that it's an development class, and the scows do measure in. Not the scows problem that the foilers are too draggy for the situation on the place and date where the race takes place.

(They are supposed to get lapped in silver fleet and expect to finish one round only.)

 

Another argument is that some managed to foil the whole way. So the wind was obviously not that light.

 

 

We'll see what happens.

One important thing to know is how finishes work with the Moth. The differences in speed are immense, even between foilers.

Once the first finisher crossed the line the rest of the fleet completes their round or gets timed out. If you got lapped you do not start another round to go the whole distance. So scows are not that much of a problem as it might seem.

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Racing seems to be is abandoned.

Opening the mike would help helps a lot with sound. :D

 

Racing tomorrow might start earlier. News on that as soon as there is a decision.

Clean is doing interviews on the beach. Watch FB.

 

End of live coverage.

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racing is abandoned for the day. thanks everyone for watching. we just signed off. will be back again tomorrow with links posted up on SA front page as well as facebook, etc. keep an eye out on the forums as the start may be brought forward by 2 hours to 1100 local time (for a couple of reasons), as the RC wants to get more racing in early as racing today was limited to 1 race and also based on the forecast which calls for a building northerly breeze throughout the day making for even more challenging conditions than the carnage fest yesterday

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How many scows and other low-riders were there in the qualifiers?

 

If G.Peet is correct in that interview, foilers seem to get the shaft when the RC has to start a Worlds race in a drifter because of the low-riders.

 

There's a reason the class went from scows to skiffs: they're faster (all else being equal of course). A top sailor in a Hungry Tiger might do well in a drifter vs a low–riding foiler, but anyone that good is in a foiler.

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I've just sat through the live video. Guys if you are taking money off sponsors I have a feeling they it will never pay out again due to pathetic commentating and production. If you're going to have a chat to someone else on the boat for f*# cks sake turn the bloody microphone off. Also learn the sail numbers of the top guys. Running a load of bullshit about the winning boat then finding out its somebody else is a bit sad. Giving the camera to some kid?? who doesn't have a clue whats going on is fairly average as well.

 

The only one who seems to have any knowledge is the blonde chick who at least had something constructive to say and sounded like she knew what she was talking about.

 

Piss poor presentation/camera work/ knowledge - Time for SA to get it's shit together or don't do attempt to do stuff you obviously know nothing about.

 

You sat through the live video. That is awesome! Thank you!

 

As for the rest...huh?

 

Happy to put on the Schweim lens or spring for the cineflex 4-axis whenever I can raise 250k for the Moth Worlds. Until then, it's this or nothing - so again, thanks for watching.

Looked fucking awesome to me, CLEAN. Keep it up.

Nice work from, Nic too. Actually she's a better camera operator than you and her commentary was great too. She's also a lot better looking!!

Thanks guys, team effort :) learning all the time - feedback is awesome, thanks for watching!

 

Hiroki's foil interview:

 

 

My favourite :)

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Fuck the nay sayers, the coverage is great so keep it coming, its not just those overseas who are digging it, even us locals that cant get there are enjoying.

 

Thanks huwp and all for watching :)

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To all of the haters out there, it's pretty difficult given the conditions and equipment, (not to mention the tiny little boats with tiny little sail numbers that all look the same and go really fast) to do any better. We're trying our best. If you don't like it, feel free to go watch the other Moth Worlds feed...

 

To the fans, thanks again for all of your support and great feedback during the coverage. I'm down below running the production end of things and constantly monitoring Facebook, Twitter, Youtube comments and of course the SA forums. Let us know how we can get better, post up questions, feedback and anything else you'd like us to address or answer live on the air. Thanks again for watching, this is fun stuff!!!

Ronnie f_ _ _ the haters, I love your coverage, watch every minute.

 

 

Ronnie, Clean and crew,

 

Just remember that "it is easy to criticise and it is much harder to do". I thank you lot for your hard efforts, keep it up.

 

Fish

 

Thanks Fish :)

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Chasm, you just wn a very cool hat. Best feedback ever, from someone who's clearly been doing this a long time. We were going to give away a dozen on Friday...but now it's 11. PM me your address and whether you have a M/L heed or a S/M heed.

 

As for the haters, I have two quotes I like to live by in my public persona.

 

From Private Parts:

 

Researcher: The average radio listener listens for eighteen minutes. The average Howard Stern fan listens for - are you ready for this? - an hour and twenty minutes.

Pig Vomit: How can that be?

Researcher: Answer most commonly given? "I want to see what he'll say next."

Pig Vomit: Okay, fine. But what about the people who hate Stern?

Researcher: Good point. The average Stern hater listens for two and a half hours a day.

Pig Vomit: But... if they hate him, why do they listen?

 

From a controversial comedian (I don't remember the source...and it's paraphrased).

 

Interviewer: "Does all the negative attention and controversy every get to you?"

Comedian: There's only one kind of attention I'm worried about: No attention. When they stop talking about me, I'll know my career is over."

 

 

Researcher: Most common answer? "I want to see what he'll say next."

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Is there an official moth scales that everyone is standing on or is this the usual BS of I weight this...

 

Doubt many of the guys doing Olympic campaigns would let everyone know there real weight

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No official weigh in this time around. At belmont we got weighed at registration as part of a research project.

 

Cheers

 

SW

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No official weigh in this time around. At belmont we got weighed at registration as part of a research project.

 

Cheers

 

SW

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Another great day's coverage Alan, Ronnie and Nic.

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Thanks for Hiroki's foil interview.

 

But I m not sure I understand the details:

It seems to me that the flap has a flexible or hindged ?? trailing edge, moveable in the middle and blocked at the tip, to minimize tip-vortex ?

 

Is is a correct understanding of this great interview ?

 

Cheers

 

W

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But I m not sure I understand the details:

It seems to me that the flap has a flexible or hindged ?? trailing edge, moveable in the middle and blocked at the tip, to minimize tip-vortex ?

 

Is is a correct understanding of this great interview ?

 

That's my understanding of the interview. Others have tried or are using a similar type of flap (Phil S will know more but he's probably still buggered from yesterday). The interesting part is that his intention wasn't light air performance, but more speed.

 

Also, his comment that shaving even one layer of paint off the trailing edge to add more curve made a difference. Rohan Veal blogged in 2007 (I think) how a single coat of paint could make a big difference in performance. There will be lots of fairing of foils tonight.

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EVERYONE has sailed a race with little to no wind, usually it's due to an ongoing bad forecast for the week or need to get heats in.. that isn't the case here

 

As somebody who wasn't there floating around I will say; the moth is at the cutting edge in every respect of sailing... low wind range should be part of this? (I'm a kiter and will admit we kind of cheat with our solution)

 

As an amateur I'm kind of surprised professionals would use social media to slag officials, regardless of its merrit.. AFL players get fined for this all the time!

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Indeed, fantastic job on bringing "us" this coverage! I'm sat in my office in the wet and windy UK and this is a great diversion away from work, especially the "views" on the pier :-)

Looking forward to the next few days action!

Cheers,

Guy

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its either tiny boats or seasick-inducing blair witch project. up to you

I hear you. The zoom was ok close in at the finish end. That zoom was nice. The no zoom stuff gets old fast,1 teny tiny blured boat on a big screen. On the 42" lcd your low deff feed turned a small moth way out on the course there into a blured 1" image boring and bad. Just saying.

 

I've been on the water enough to enjoy even your raw un-vediopro handling of the camera.

 

Remember its the skilled crafts man not the tool that can get a great image.

 

Cleans got to many pokers in the fire.

 

Get a great camera man.

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These Moths have potential other than racing.....world touring spectator/racing events as in surfing,skating,BMX,Motocross,snow board...etc

It is fascinating that the lowly Moth class is now the hotbed of foiling for the sailing masses....

The first time I ever planed in a sailboat was in a Moth on the Tamsui river in Tiawan late 50's....

>

Clean, you do need more cameras. desperately. you need a boat at the bottom and the top so you can have some semlbence to a consistent race coverage... Onboard camera and Kattack (or equivalent) so that we can all tell WTF is going on out there... love teh coverage but...

 

 

 

yay,,,it's sailorgirl!

 

...love the aussie'bogans! :wub:

way to out yourself...
mustang_1 that would increase our budget by at least 10 fold. doing what we can with what we got.

 

that would require more boats, resources and real tv equipment. we're doing this with a laptop, a camera, a boat and a 4g cell-tower router

Director/Commentator Alan Blockhead...it doesn't matter that this banner means you can't see the boats....

 

Typical clean otw bullshit...promise the world going in and then under perform during the event...blame the cameras, bandwidth, boat operators, the unpaid help, oh and the race com doesn't have cleans experience even tho he doesn't know who he is, and shouldn't have started that race..but swing the camera on me so that I,I, I can er, er, er tell everyone how much I know about this shit.....it really really doesn't matter that I can't tell you who finished 2,3 4 or 5th in the race because it's too hard to tell...

He doesn't know who is on which boat or when the race is starting, which is totally lame because knowing the top twenty guys is just part of a commentators job but he was too busy inhaling the free drinks and bullshitting with his bros...

He's the oldest dude in the place but believes anyone one day older than him doesn't belong in sailing...oh I forgot about David Loring but he's always been cool....

 

Apart from him, Ronnie and Petey are doing a good job, and check out the Moth site regatta vids...they are really good, but then they have hundreds of thousands of dollars to spend ......but we will be up until midnight editing this shit....bla, bla....

 

@ rol:I must say, I have read your comment with a lot of amusement. You are right but I was not about to claim myself, as I am consuming this for total free. The only thing which really bothered me was the thing that he EVEN did not KNOW about the single digit numbers in the sails and to whom they belong. So easy to recognize those top ten sailors from the last worlds. Especially when Mr. C. acts, like he knows everyone… and his friend Bora must have educated him already long time ago, when Clean did his first Moth steps in Dubai or has it been Florida. But nevertheless, the Aussie girl is commentating really good. Good pronunciation and nothing about herself… as long into the Iive acts as I had the nervs to watch the shaking camera with the blinding logo at the bottom.

 

And please Mr. Clean, it should not be a problem to better position your camera boat. Have done this myself a lot and when you claim, you know shit about racing, you should be able to direct the driver into the right spots. Thanks for listening.

 

I am sure it will get better maybe already from RACE 2 onwards!

Smooth sailing!

GER 3835

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The coverage of this event is outstanding. For all you sea sick wankers due to wobble-cam – go and watch the other Bernie Ecclestone funded alternative channel ... yep... I hear crickets too...

 

Appreciate what you are getting – it IS unprecedented – and unless you want to pay for airfares from Michigan to Melbourne, charter camera cats, pro camera operators etc – seriously, go and STFU.

 

Clean and team - and to my great friend Nic, (who promised me a ride on the Taser a few years back now...) this is epic coverage.

 

However, no one can help the weather and the wind ...

 

What we are seeing is the very beginning of an ‘F1’ sailing fleet – finally.

 

Here we are, with almost all of the world’s top sailors, ‘duking’ it out in an extraordinary little boat with virtually no limitations to imagination and creativity in its production and execution. It is fucking brilliant! So awesome!

 

Just read down the list of sailors. Unbelievable. In both fleets. This is as pure ‘one-on-one’ as you can get as far as sailing skill goes. I would LOVE to know where blokes like Seve Jarvin are, or other world class sailors of very high performance boats are – because if you want to measure yourself as a sailor, this if the place to be. The Moth Worlds just took it all to another level (and thanks SA for bringing us along for the ride).

 

Can you just imagine the whole approach of guys like Outteridge, Jensen and Loick Peyron – all guys from the highest levels of our sport – sitting around with some of the hottest sail boat designers, sail makers and aeronautical thinkers/geniuses in the universe when it comes to sailing, sails and aerodynamics??

 

It’s nothing short of full ‘skunk works’ sailing – which has for decades been the domain of AC and ‘other out there’ projects like mega French multi projects, or Sail Rocket, or Comanche, or Rambler88, of dear old Syd (bless him with his rebuilt contraptions) - or people willing to take a fucking risk.

 

And here they are, on a beach in Melbourne, Australia – going for it. And the whole sailing world is psyched. Blokes (obviously the new helmsman...) from ETNZ are tearing it up in near stock boats(?), old school scows are powering along – what a remarkable event.

 

Amazing event unfolding. I just wish we had solid 15-20 for the next week. I would love to see all the guys at the highest level of our sport, just going for it. There is no hiding here.

 

This event is on a whole other level as a sailing spectator – and thanks, again to Clean and team for working your arses off to bring it to appreciative readers of this website.

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Well done SA for getting out there and doing what you can with what you've got. The on the water stuff is virtually impossible without live tracking to talk to. The compasison to 18footers is wrong becasue the moths are just going to fast to be kept up with, without permission/dispensation to drive your camera boat upwind of the leader....

 

Turning to the racing, can anyone give an explanation of how Peter Burling lapped everyone in a race? It's not like he is that light at 82kgs.

 

Ph yes, and well done Chris Draper and Rashley!!!

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Glad I don't sponsor Luka, Slingsby and Langford. I'm not there so have no idea if running the race was the right call or not, but publicly dissing the RO is bad form. There are ways of criticising the decision without throwing personal insults.

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And please Mr. Clean, it should not be a problem to better position your camera boat. Have done this myself a lot and when you claim, you know shit about racing, you should be able to direct the driver into the right spots. Thanks for listening.

 

 

It was obvious that the owner /operator of the boat did not understand the first thing about sailboat racing....and was scared shitless about getting his ass in a jam.

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I really appreciate the live coverage as well and when it goes blurry for a minute, I just take a break, check something else out and come back in a minute or two.

 

It seems like one of the bigger issues is the powerboat driving. A lot of spins putting the bow towards the action, blocking the camera.

 

Clean, maybe we can all put our money where our mouths are and chip in to help you give us the better coverage. A GoFundMe type account to raise funds for a handheld gimbal...etc. http://www.dji.com/product/ronin Maybe we could plan in advance well before the Japan worlds next year.

I would definitely chip in!

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Those pics have already been taken. keep an eye on SA facebook for a gallery of about 100 pics of pure porn

 

Those pictures of details are just great. Thanks a lot for your efforts!

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Nice work on the coverage. I certainly could not produce anywhere near as good of a product!

 

Has anyone thought about using drones mounted with GoPros? Bring a bunch of extra batteries, and launch them off a boat that is on the course.

 

I seem to remember seeing some footage of 16' skiffs that was taken that way.

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If the class wants coverage like Robbie, Clean et al are going for, they might consider making it easier to do- smaller course size, specific venues (like with a media island/barge in the middle of things and at the marks, along with offering a bit of tech (like the excellent drone suggestion above) etc.- this is a tough assignment to cover given the traditionally obligatory lack of $$$. But, enthusiasm does trump good taste, at least so sez Flaubert, so Kudos guys!

 

The class may need to contemplate allowing multiple sets of foils onboard that are easily changed on the water (like without tools). I don't see why a skiff hull couldn't sport flying hydrofoils as well archimedes foils. Grandfather all the existing boats in, and go forward with new rules boats. More used boats out there immediately, hell- these things aren't cheap anyway. And if the urge to go all F1 on the Moth is serious, spending lots of dough will be part of the glamour. Be interesting to see some hull development too. If the class wants to go Tour le France (or Tow In World) with support boats, multiple hulls, rigs etc., wow! Glamour! Drug testing! Models after each heat! Corporate espionage! :) Teams! Morphing Foils!

 

This could go AC!

 

The temptation to not race in light airs must be an itch wanting to be scratched until blooooody right now.....

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Driver isn't doing a great job but the guys have a no win situation i.e. to have any chance of seeing the winner cross the line you have to be at the bottom of the course, but in order to provide sufficient room for an out of control moth at the bottom mark the guys are having to stay ~40m away from the first bottom mark and reach. The best position I think we have seen is in the vicinity of the upwind turning mark (i.e. from the reach to the beat); good because they can get relatively close and can also have a chance to see the relative upwind course angles of the boats, relative heal angles....and if anyone is choosing to tack etc.

 

 

Top end of the course allows you to get closer but again, you miss the finish, and you still have to leave space for an out of control boat.

 

 

Well done SA/(especially the volunteers), don't give up.

 

 

Re the racing, I was surprised that some of the pros complained on social media re the race committee running the light wind race. From all of the Americas Cup coverage these guys (Slingsby and Langford) came over amazingly/brilliantly well, so I think you have to take it as indicative of just how frustrated and committed to this event these guys are i.e. it just isn't another event/knock about/water-off-ducks back jolly for them.....and for that reason i sympathise with both sides, competitors and race committee. These guys are trying their best and a race in marginal wind is always going to controversial. That the light guys.....and pete burling, got it done, kind of (completely) vindicates the RO. Issue is more about what guidance/impression were people like Nathan (others) acting upon when they weren't on the course i.e. if you have been sitting on the beach all morning under postponement with little expectation of getting out, and then suddenly the RO waves everyone off, then that is a problem….A real pity if these outlier results decide the eventual winner.

 

 

 

 

And please Mr. Clean, it should not be a problem to better position your camera boat. Have done this myself a lot and when you claim, you know shit about racing, you should be able to direct the driver into the right spots. Thanks for listening.

 

 

It was obvious that the owner /operator of the boat did not understand the first thing about sailboat racing....and was scared shitless about getting his ass in a jam.

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As somebody who wasn't there floating around I will say; the moth is at the cutting edge in every respect of sailing... low wind range should be part of this? (I'm a kiter and will admit we kind of cheat with our solution)

 

As an amateur I'm kind of surprised professionals would use social media to slag officials, regardless of its merrit.. AFL players get fined for this all the time!

Well us kiters have a rule that says 6 knots (may it got lowered to 5) is the minimum to start a race so we get it a little leeway here. Plus kite racing in a drifter is just plain embarrassing for the class!

I'm not surprised about the tweets, and I wasn't there but I bet they made a lot of noise on the beach too. If you're a professional you need to get results, and if you feel the RC is screwing you over you have little recourse but to make them question their decisions. Does anyone think the RC wouldn't be influence by this just a little bit? Do you think if the wind is the same again they'll question starting a race? It's all part of the game at that level.

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wow,,,seems like I chose the right day of coverage to miss! Imagine being a lighwind specialist,,too beaten up on sunday to make goldfleet or sail the next day,,then it's light the rest of the week........what a fickle sport we have!!

....Y'day's light winds sound frustrating for those that made it. What was the 'secret' for the 7 boats that finished?

 

 

 

...for all who've been pissing themselves over the 4hrs of seasickcam coverage, perhaps you were too busy complaining to notice it on the FP, check out the Sperry highlight reel...it's worth the wait unless you're totally obsessed ;)

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Thank you very much RobG.

 

Writing is easier to understand for me than interview. Thanks also for the "paint layer" issue I didn't understand at first.

 

This last point testifies how far they are "on the edge" with their foils:

 

If my understanding is correct: a little more curve backward to get some "aft loading" , which in turn, for the same global lift, allow you to decrease leading edge velocities, and at the end of the day: a lower drag.

 

That's probably too thin to be detected by XFOIL

 

My best wishes to PhilS, I look forward to read his comments.

I guess he is the PhilS who was recently graduated from MIT (Fluid Dynamics/M. Drela).

 

Hope CLEAN will not take advantage of this information to harass PhilS with foil questions!

 

Cheers

 

W

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.........I guess he is the PhilS who was recently graduated from MIT (Fluid Dynamics/M. Drela).

 

Hope CLEAN will not take advantage of this information to harass PhilS with foil questions!

.

....why not?

.....,,I imagine Phil would be happy to oblige with current technology...maybe not so much about next year's! ;)

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discuss

Its obvious there is frustration, but that could be better expressed then calling the race committee retarded. Pretty poor form from kyle langford especially.

 

If 3 boats seemed to foil most of the way around, what's the problem?

 

If no boats could, then fair enough, but why penalise those that can? Its a different skill set maybe, but its sailing.

 

And the results leader got 3rd, not some kind of luck or lottery surely.

 

Some whiney bitches in that oracle team

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^ agree, it is a world championship isn't it? Everyone tested, some do well and others fail. Some accept it , and others whine

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Well done SA for getting out there and doing what you can with what you've got. The on the water stuff is virtually impossible without live tracking to talk to. The compasison to 18footers is wrong becasue the moths are just going to fast to be kept up with, without permission/dispensation to drive your camera boat upwind of the leader....

 

Turning to the racing, can anyone give an explanation of how Peter Burling lapped everyone in a race? It's not like he is that light at 82kgs.

 

Ph yes, and well done Chris Draper and Rashley!!!

 

 

And please Mr. Clean, it should not be a problem to better position your camera boat. Have done this myself a lot and when you claim, you know shit about racing, you should be able to direct the driver into the right spots. Thanks for listening.

 

 

It was obvious that the owner /operator of the boat did not understand the first thing about sailboat racing....and was scared shitless about getting his ass in a jam.

 

It is only obvious that when you say this, you show that you have very little idea what you are talking about.

 

Every morning, there is a detailed meeting about media boats, and every morning, we are requesting and pushing to be closer and closer to the action. Wvery day, we are exactly where we are allowed to be, and, along with beau/thierry (event media), we are the closest to the action on the course.

 

We could change the face of the Worlds every leg if we moved at any pace at all; there is no chasing at a Moth Worlds (and hasn't been for years)

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As somebody who wasn't there floating around I will say; the moth is at the cutting edge in every respect of sailing... low wind range should be part of this? (I'm a kiter and will admit we kind of cheat with our solution)

 

As an amateur I'm kind of surprised professionals would use social media to slag officials, regardless of its merrit.. AFL players get fined for this all the time!

Well us kiters have a rule that says 6 knots (may it got lowered to 5) is the minimum to start a race so we get it a little leeway here. Plus kite racing in a drifter is just plain embarrassing for the class!

I'm not surprised about the tweets, and I wasn't there but I bet they made a lot of noise on the beach too. If you're a professional you need to get results, and if you feel the RC is screwing you over you have little recourse but to make them question their decisions. Does anyone think the RC wouldn't be influence by this just a little bit? Do you think if the wind is the same again they'll question starting a race? It's all part of the game at that level.

+1

 

Making noise to the RC is part of racing.

 

Laser NA's in the '80's and 100+ boats, including many who would be in Worlds a week/two later in Newport. Drifters, pure hell in the heat and looking ahead I see the pumping/kinetics at the front of race. Lo, behold, hell to pay later as people get tossed and rules get reviewed and enforced on the second day.

 

You don't make noise to a RC and only yourself to blame when you get blown out the back & watch a 185# elite guy rockin & rolling himself upwind while the RC is having lemonades and hiding from the sun.

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A-Catter and Artemis designer (formerly Oracle) Mike Drummond will be out with us again today as a spotter. He was damned good yesterday!

 

No we can't get any closer

Yes there is plenty of breeze

Yes Sander went down to get the sunrise on the beach

 

Thanks again for all your help, and especially those who understand both what a Moth Worlds course is like, and our constraints. If your suggestion involves another boat, another salary, or any more gear purchases...it's not gonna happen.

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I couldn't follow the live yesterday, but I'm loving yesterday Clean and sailorgirl interviews. Big cheer also for Sander HD photos, reeally awesome.

hanks guys for the big effort. Much appreciated from far far away (Italy) :)

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Tuned in for 10 minutes, looked really slow

 

Clean... At the time I watched you were discussing the pumping rule... that in practise the sailors would be pumping multiple times and would possibly be foiling in those conditions but under race conditions only one pump was allowed

 

Yet the coverage showed the leader gybing on the approach to the finish and was pumping multiple times to stay on the foils.

 

Can you please clarify what is legal for the regatta.

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Lots of wingeing about the gold fleet yesterday, except for Hiroki of course. But at least they did get a race and only spent an hour or so on the water.

 

The poor Silver fleet sailed for an hour to the start 3 towns away, them messed around for 2.5 hrs for one aborted race, then got towed or sailed back the 4nm against the tide for a 4.5 to 5hr day on the water with no racing. There was foiling strength wind at the scheduled start time, but the RC decided to wait for more of the fleet to arrive so 35 minutes later we started in a drift and the N flag was flown before the first mark was reached. A few people even ran aground in the middle of the course area on the way out. But we did see the dolphins.

 

Today its fresh again from the east, so while all the stars and the media are out in front of the club the also rans will be sent out the same 4nm upwind in 20kts and big waves to hopefully get some racing.

 

This event is getting too big for most venues. This club is trying very hard with some very good people but the weather, tide flows and shear size of the fleets, along with the huge speed differences between foiling and not foiling, all combine to make it very difficult.

 

So far RC decisions which have upset at least some people are:

 

Race 3 day 1, Course was shortenned to one lap, 15min time limit after finisher meant only 30% of the yellow fleet recorded a result, because the lap finishing system was negated.

 

Yesterday, the Gold fleet started on time in a drift even though some of the fleet could not make the start. This time they did not shorten the course which at least allowed a lot more than the 7 who completed the course to record a result due to our lap scoring system.

 

While on the Silver course the RC did not start the race on time even though there was wind, becasue not enough boats had made the start area. Then the wind died and no racing was possible.

 

Obvious inconsistancy. But as the Jury have told us the RC has the right to do whatever he wants to do wrt starting or stopping races. It just a bit discouraging for everyone except the winners.

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You guys are doing fine considering everything. I just want to second the drone with the gopro.

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imo Cleans driver is doing more than a pretty fair job,

from day 1 hes been keeping the arse of the boat toward the action so the camera can 'see' , it's not a 360 degree platform lke the 18 CameraCat.

When the angle runs out (yes the targets are moving) he spins 180 on cue to re-establish our viewing

 

also, what can't be done ( say like the 18s) is that they can't go cutting up the fleet, on the course, not the boat/drivers issue.

 

without Cleans efforts, you would know nothing for hours & only get the odd tweet

 

It's the other media outfits there that aren't delivering 'real time', not SAs

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Tuned in for 10 minutes, looked really slow

 

Clean... At the time I watched you were discussing the pumping rule... that in practise the sailors would be pumping multiple times and would possibly be foiling in those conditions but under race conditions only one pump was allowed

 

Yet the coverage showed the leader gybing on the approach to the finish and was pumping multiple times to stay on the foils.

 

Can you please clarify what is legal for the regatta.

The pumping rule is changed from standard by the class rules only to add the word "foiling" to "planing or surfing". So its two pumps to foil. But sailing a 300mm wide hull or a 20mm wide waterline foil does require more frequent sheet movements than most other boats, so the class has long accepted frequent and rapid sheet movements on the basis that its good seamanship to keep the boats upright. Hence everyone accepts that a few extra pumps to get foiling is probably illegal but very hard to prove its not just boat trimming.

 

What has become an issue in the last few years is wing bouncing. There are a few very skilled exponents who can bounce a boat up onto foils in almost no wind. Its blatantly illegal but there have not been any protests yet. There is even one guy in one of Clean's interview telling the world he does it. I was on the other course yesterday but I hear that there was some bouncing going on in the gold fleet.

 

But the class does not appear to want to do anything about it. We have discussed it at our AGM at the last three WCs and nothing ever get decied or done. It will have to wait until someone comes along with a pump powered foil arangement and wants to register it as a moth.

 

The class is clearly on the edge of what most people think is normal sailing, so its culture is more likely to accept things which other classes would crack down on. We have lots of sails which are pulled below the lower measurement band, its been discussed for 3 years but nothing get done so it just get worse. Another thing that gets discussed evey year is upper and lower wind limits but again nothing ever gets decided.

 

Mothies just want to sail, very few contribute to the class administration or take part in decision making. Making decisions is tough for the few when half the fleet will disagree with the outcome, so mostly nothing gets decided.

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Lots of wingeing about the gold fleet yesterday, except for Hiroki of course.

 

.......the Jury have told us the RC has the right to do whatever he wants to do wrt starting or stopping races. It just a bit discouraging for everyone except the winners.

.

...conrats to Hiroki.

He survived a solid beating on sunday just to be in A fleet. It's nice to see he got an equalizer on monday ;)

 

It all sounds like -yacht racing- all over again. It probably wouldn't be a bad idea to establish more concrete low wind guidelines or otherwise the big guys need to HTFU! :mellow:

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have you read the NOR / SIs ?

I was hoping our on the spot expert commentary team would have the answer

 

Do you have a link for the SI ? Never mind, found them

 

SI refer to RRS... RRS says one pump per wave/gust per sail... So I guess the moth I was watching had more sails onboard!

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Tuned in for 10 minutes, looked really slow

 

Clean... At the time I watched you were discussing the pumping rule... that in practise the sailors would be pumping multiple times and would possibly be foiling in those conditions but under race conditions only one pump was allowed

 

Yet the coverage showed the leader gybing on the approach to the finish and was pumping multiple times to stay on the foils.

 

Can you please clarify what is legal for the regatta.

 

But the class does not appear to want to do anything about it.

We all know "Kinetics" is a dark art and practiced by many.

 

Problem, with Lasers as I remember it, was that most RC's aren't even sure what they're looking at when it's happening.

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Yesterday, the Gold fleet started on time in a drift even though some of the fleet could not make the start. This time they did not shorten the course which at least allowed a lot more than the 7 who completed the course to record a result due to our lap scoring system.

 

Only six more boats managed to sail at least one lap by the time the winner finished two laps plus the 15 minute time limit expired? :wacko:

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.

...looking again....I particularly liked the action close-ups and no commentary with the relevant interviews of the day at the end.....makes for an excellent nutshell view that will likely still be getting views -years- down the road.

 

 

 

 

 

 

...kinetics,,,schinettics <_<....just bring on some WIND!!! :D

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better every day Clean. don't give up on the zoom, the best shots were the the long ones with many boats in frame heading towards the camera!! maybe zoom and and pan are the ones to stay away from.

Great interviews, great commentary from Sailor Girl, great geek fest with bear, great boats bits shots!!!

fuck the mainstream :)



your producer rocks too :)

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Yesterday, the Gold fleet started on time in a drift even though some of the fleet could not make the start. This time they did not shorten the course which at least allowed a lot more than the 7 who completed the course to record a result due to our lap scoring system.

Only six more boats managed to sail at least one lap by the time the winner finished two laps plus the 15 minute time limit expired? :wacko:

I guess 7 boats did two laps, but almost everybody completed one and got scored. The tweets were misleading.

 

full results here

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Another suggestion: Take the word "should" out of your vocabulary. It's a smarmy, bullshit word.

 

 

 

 

 

And please Mr. Clean, it should not be a problem to better position your camera boat. Have done this myself a lot and when you claim, you know shit about racing, you should be able to direct the driver into the right spots. Thanks for listening.

 

 

It was obvious that the owner /operator of the boat did not understand the first thing about sailboat racing....and was scared shitless about getting his ass in a jam.

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Chasm, you just wn a very cool hat.

 

PM sent.

Playing the critic is easier than doing.

I guess I would be Sanders alternate position side kick, and then get sent to the cave for delivering way to many bad shots. :ph34r:

 

 

 

Yesterday, the Gold fleet started on time in a drift even though some of the fleet could not make the start. This time they did not shorten the course which at least allowed a lot more than the 7 who completed the course to record a result due to our lap scoring system.

 

Only six more boats managed to sail at least one lap by the time the winner finished two laps plus the 15 minute time limit expired? :wacko:

 

No.

70 out of 79 in gold fleet managed to do at least one lap. 7 managed to complete two of two laps. 1 scored as UFD, 8 scored as DNF.

 

Of the 8 DNF at least some if not most missed the start. Tom Slingsby being the biggest name among them. (Which is why I think that he is a bit too vocal in this.)

 

 

Here is how scoring works for moths as far as I understood.

After the first finisher crossed the line the rest of the fleet has 15 minutes to finish their current lap.

Important: As long as you have finished at least 1 lap you get scored, even if you are lapped.

(But where? Committee boat? Hint: Interview topic. This never got explained on cam. During each and every attempt something more shiny popped up.)

 

That system keeps the races short, with few DNF, even with such big speed differences. Which happen even when everyone is foiling. Reminds me somewhat of the 24h du Les Mans.

 

The biggest problem as I see it is if the race gets shortened to 1 round as it happened during the 3rd qualifier. Then you are in real trouble. 79 starters, 32 finishers, 42 DNF, 5 UFD. Oh, also split qualifier fleets so you are in REAL trouble unless both fleets did the same change.

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have you read the NOR / SIs ?

I was hoping our on the spot expert commentary team would have the answer

 

Do you have a link for the SI ? Never mind, found them

 

SI refer to RRS... RRS says one pump per wave/gust per sail... So I guess the moth I was watching had more sails onboard!

 

nope its two, race docs refer to class rules

 

phils explanation is of course from within the racing fleet as to what actually occurs, no protests because of rocks/glasshouses factor

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The scoring system is set out in the sailing instructions.

 

To see all race documents, go to the event home page, hover over competitors menu item, click on Race Documents.

 

 

The biggest problem as I see it is if the race gets shortened to 1 round as it happened during the 3rd qualifier. Then you are in real trouble. 79 starters, 32 finishers, 42 DNF, 5 UFD. Oh, also split qualifier fleets so you are in REAL trouble unless both fleets did the same change.

 

Split fleet doesn't make it worse, see SI §15.5.

 

The boats in the gold fleet will be ranked highest in the regatta except for a boat disqualified from a Finals race under rules 5 or 69.

 

So it's impossible for a gold fleet boat to be beaten overall by a silver fleet boat unless it's disqualified from a "Finals race". And who cares about 79th vs 80th anyway… ;-)

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Thanks RobG for clearing that up.

In addition here is the link to the official results. Also contains notices, protests, jury decisions and so on.

 

 

(I looked into the SI but what do I know. :) )

 

 

And here we go again. Soon. 2h earlier than yesterday in case you are wondering .

 

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1. Hiroki Goto JPN

2. Chris Draper GBR

3. Peter Burling NZL

4. Blair Tuke NZL

5. Tom Johnson, AUS (we think)

 

super light air, Outteridge very deep, Slingers didnt start (i dont think), several big names gone and would not be surprised if RC gets protested. will be interesting either way

 

65 kg and Hiroki Goto was crushing. bit of questionable pumping tho

 

Why the fuck would the RC get protested? Race started, plenty of people finished within the time limit. Another race ticked off, mission accomplished. It didn't even need to be shortened.

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discuss

Its obvious there is frustration, but that could be better expressed then calling the race committee retarded. Pretty poor form from kyle langford especially.

 

If 3 boats seemed to foil most of the way around, what's the problem?

 

If no boats could, then fair enough, but why penalise those that can? Its a different skill set maybe, but its sailing.

 

And the results leader got 3rd, not some kind of luck or lottery surely.

 

Some whiney bitches in that oracle team

 

+100

 

so disappointing to see disparaging comments from the rock stars. they've lost a bit of respect and have only themselves to blame.

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AP over H. Racing postponed at the moment and the fleet is still (mostly) ashore, though a few adventurous Scow sailors are attempting to brave the conditions and do some yachting. rain blowing mid to upper 20's, maxing at 30 knots. out of the north too, which means about 20 miles of fetch for waves to build before they get to the race course. we'll keep you posted.

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1. Hiroki Goto JPN

2. Chris Draper GBR

3. Peter Burling NZL

4. Blair Tuke NZL

5. Tom Johnson, AUS (we think)

 

super light air, Outteridge very deep, Slingers didnt start (i dont think), several big names gone and would not be surprised if RC gets protested. will be interesting either way

 

65 kg and Hiroki Goto was crushing. bit of questionable pumping tho

 

Why the fuck would the RC get protested? Race started, plenty of people finished within the time limit. Another race ticked off, mission accomplished. It didn't even need to be shortened.

we have had this discussion several times in the past couple of days. Ncik, I am actually inclined to agree with what you are saying, however when i am in the presence of Moth sailors at this regatta, Clean (who has covered several Moth Worlds) and the rest of our team, it's almost unanimously agreed upon that the race should have been abandoned. ultimately the RC works for the 160 sailors that are competing in the regatta and while there's no hard wind limits established, there are championship guidelines and yesterday's race certainly wasn't within those guidelines, as the Moth is a foiling boat.

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MR.CLEAN, on 12 Jan 2015 - 17:58, said:

MR.CLEAN, on 12 Jan 2015 - 17:58, said:

MR.CLEAN, on 12 Jan 2015 - 17:58, said:

Another suggestion: Take the word "should" out of your vocabulary. It's a smarmy, bullshit word.

 

 

 

 

 

SailBlueH2O, on 12 Jan 2015 - 10:38, said:SailBlueH2O, on 12 Jan 2015 - 10:38, said:SailBlueH2O, on 12 Jan 2015 - 10:38, said:

And please Mr. Clean, it should not be a problem to better position your camera boat. Have done this myself a lot and when you claim, you know shit about racing, you should be able to direct the driver into the right spots. Thanks for listening.

 

 

It was obvious that the owner /operator of the boat did not understand the first thing about sailboat racing....and was scared shitless about getting his ass in a jam.

should came from the last 3&4 sentences in post 540 (not mine) which I cut and pasted then commented on...a few posts later in # 544

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Langford was part of the AC cheating at oracle. Was very lucky to escape a suspension. Funny too in the video where half the fleet is asked what the love about the moth he says "uh nothing". Maybe his AC ego outweighs his ability in a small boat.

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AP over H. Racing postponed at the moment and the fleet is still (mostly) ashore, though a few adventurous Scow sailors are attempting to brave the conditions and do some yachting. rain blowing mid to upper 20's, maxing at 30 knots. out of the north too, which means about 20 miles of fetch for waves to build before they get to the race course. we'll keep you posted.

 

Is the YT chat already open? If so can someone post a synopsis of the above into it? Looks like a few a popping in and out of the starting soon stream. I'm behind a proxy and can't post myself.

 

Edit says: Chat is indeed open, thank you for posting. Mr.Clean

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Langford was part of the AC cheating at oracle. Was very lucky to escape a suspension. Funny too in the video where half the fleet is asked what the love about the moth he says "uh nothing". Maybe his AC ego outweighs his ability in a small boat.

 

Exactly. He's lying 27th in the Gold fleet, 2 spots behind Tom Slingsby and 2 places ahead of Dean Barker. He sucks at this game.

 

Fucking idiot.

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1. Hiroki Goto JPN

2. Chris Draper GBR

3. Peter Burling NZL

4. Blair Tuke NZL

5. Tom Johnson, AUS (we think)

 

super light air, Outteridge very deep, Slingers didnt start (i dont think), several big names gone and would not be surprised if RC gets protested. will be interesting either way

 

65 kg and Hiroki Goto was crushing. bit of questionable pumping tho

 

Why the fuck would the RC get protested? Race started, plenty of people finished within the time limit. Another race ticked off, mission accomplished. It didn't even need to be shortened.

we have had this discussion several times in the past couple of days. Ncik, I am actually inclined to agree with what you are saying, however when i am in the presence of Moth sailors at this regatta, Clean (who has covered several Moth Worlds) and the rest of our team, it's almost unanimously agreed upon that the race should have been abandoned. ultimately the RC works for the 160 sailors that are competing in the regatta and while there's no hard wind limits established, there are championship guidelines and yesterday's race certainly wasn't within those guidelines, as the Moth is a foiling boat.

Two points.

1. The regatta is over for a number of sailors that destroyed boats in fresh conditions. A number of other good sailors had bad results in such conditions. Should the RC suspend racing if the wind is fresh too?

2. Bitching about light conditions and the RC ultimately detracts from the winner. They need to pull their heads in and act like champions.

 

Enough said by me on this topic.

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