QBF

Micro-Cruiser Anarchy

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My sweet little Frank Pelin designed Caribou 15 that I built when I was 17 and cruised all over the Hauraki Gulf and Bay of Islands.

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That's a cool little boat, Sundreamer. Much better than the WWP 15 that camp cruisers here in the US bought a lot of.

 

Sounds like a fantastic way for a teenager to spend his time. Well done. If I could go back, I'd do the same.

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Post pics in 25knots & 2metre seas please.

Boca Grande Pass, Charlotte Harbor. Everglades Challenge 2017 Day-1. 25 gusting to 35, wind against tide. Second to finish Class4 single male.

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Post pics in 25knots & 2metre seas please.

Boca Grande Pass, Charlotte Harbor. Everglades Challenge 2017 Day-1. 25 gusting to 35, wind against tide. Second to finish Class4 single male.

Well done. Enjoyed looking over your boat on Friday. Did you ever tape over those boom ends like i suggested?

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I can take a good advice when i hear one ;)

 

I agree with the battens problem. We changed over all the battens in the mizzen to lighter ones. Still not completely happy with it but its much better than on that pic (which was on launch day)

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Post pics in 25knots & 2metre seas please.

Boca Grande Pass, Charlotte Harbor. Everglades Challenge 2017 Day-1. 25 gusting to 35, wind against tide. Second to finish Class4 single male.

 

 

Nice boat, well done.

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I can take a good advice when i hear one ;)

 

I agree with the battens problem. We changed over all the battens in the mizzen to lighter ones. Still not completely happy with it but its much better than on that pic (which was on launch day)

 

Glad you did, could have been a nasty cut. I like your boat a lot and you really appeared to be going well all week. I've tried solo before and it's hard. Completing a solo challenge on your first attempt and even more so during the very difficult conditions this year is quite an achievement and you should be proud of your success. To do it in a nearly untested boat is even more impressive.

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I did not use the WB system. The pumps and valves are in, but the pipes are not, so i did without. I could certainly have used it for inertia, to keep momentum in the short chop, which we had a ton of. Righting moment of course would have been good, but the boat was quite manageable as-is, and I keep being impressed with how much stability is added with the small amount of lead in the keel. Having not had time to do in-the-water stability tests, i did not want to push it, but a few times I didn't dump the main in time and ended up rail in the water, and the boat didn't go over. I took lots of footage and will write a recap in the coming weeks.

She is fun to sail and can be quite aggressive, I sailed her like a dinghy a lot, hiking straps and all. Then in the evening when i got tired i shortened sail, pulled out the beanbag and still moved along reasonably well.

I'd put a 3rd reef in the main. Saturday and Sunday I had 2 reefs in both sails and it was still too much.

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I did not use the WB system. The pumps and valves are in, but the pipes are not, so i did without. I could certainly have used it for inertia, to keep momentum in the short chop, which we had a ton of. Righting moment of course would have been good, but the boat was quite manageable as-is, and I keep being impressed with how much stability is added with the small amount of lead in the keel. Having not had time to do in-the-water stability tests, i did not want to push it, but a few times I didn't dump the main in time and ended up rail in the water, and the boat didn't go over. I took lots of footage and will write a recap in the coming weeks.

She is fun to sail and can be quite aggressive, I sailed her like a dinghy a lot, hiking straps and all. Then in the evening when i got tired i shortened sail, pulled out the beanbag and still moved along reasonably well.

I'd put a 3rd reef in the main. Saturday and Sunday I had 2 reefs in both sails and it was still too much.

 

I thought the boat looked a bit light in some of the pics I saw posted along the way.

 

RoG is awesome. I want one!

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I have seen pics of a Lightning with a small cabin. Pretty cool. Reef early.

 

 

Lightning is an awesome daysailer, many ways. Good performance, exciting feel, enough stowage to bring a lunch. Great looking boat too, a classic Olin Stephens beauty.

 

I think the hull is likely to make a better cuddy cabin micro cruiser than some others, but it will never be very roomy and it will always throw lots of spray. Putting some kind of tarp sailed yawl rig and leeboards will destroy the performance; good bye high pointing and planing. But it will keep the chine-steering and trying to root into waves.

 

Ignore tha last bit. There's a lot of small cruisers out there that are pudgy ill-mannered floating campers that can't sail worth a hoot. The cruisified Lightning will be a queen among them.

 

FB- Doug

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@NorseHorse I always thought a lightening would make a fun little coastal cruiser, you could certainly go places in one if you wanted to.

The one thing about all these micro cruisers is they all seem very slow, which I'm sure is a compromise for stability and safety, but I'd like to get to the places i'm going especially if I'm in such a small boat!

 

I imagine a little trimaran could be a bit speedier, and similarly safe. Something like this, in the 6-7 meter range.

SketchUp 2017 03 13 10 31 59 86

Built of ply wood, all flat hull and lee boards. I'd love to see whats the best shape hull with only a curved bottom, would make it easy to build for sure.

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@NorseHorse I always thought a lightening would make a fun little coastal cruiser, you could certainly go places in one if you wanted to.

The one thing about all these micro cruisers is they all seem very slow, which I'm sure is a compromise for stability and safety, but I'd like to get to the places i'm going especially if I'm in such a small boat!

 

I imagine a little trimaran could be a bit speedier, and similarly safe. Something like this, in the 6-7 meter range.

Built of ply wood, all flat hull and lee boards. I'd love to see whats the best shape hull with only a curved bottom, would make it easy to build for sure.

 

that's the wrong pic for a first post.

just sayin..

 

welcome to CA ,)

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@NorseHorse I always thought a lightening would make a fun little coastal cruiser, you could certainly go places in one if you wanted to.

The one thing about all these micro cruisers is they all seem very slow, which I'm sure is a compromise for stability and safety, but I'd like to get to the places i'm going especially if I'm in such a small boat!

 

I imagine a little trimaran could be a bit speedier, and similarly safe. Something like this, in the 6-7 meter range.

Built of ply wood, all flat hull and lee boards. I'd love to see whats the best shape hull with only a curved bottom, would make it easy to build for sure.

 

I really like this L7 tri and could see building one now that the boatbuilding bug has hit me.

http://multimarine.com/portfolio-items/l-7-trimaran/

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@NorseHorse I always thought a lightening would make a fun little coastal cruiser, you could certainly go places in one if you wanted to.

The one thing about all these micro cruisers is they all seem very slow, which I'm sure is a compromise for stability and safety, but I'd like to get to the places i'm going especially if I'm in such a small boat!

 

I imagine a little trimaran could be a bit speedier, and similarly safe. Something like this, in the 6-7 meter range.

Built of ply wood, all flat hull and lee boards. I'd love to see whats the best shape hull with only a curved bottom, would make it easy to build for sure.

 

I really like this L7 tri and could see building one now that the boatbuilding bug has hit me.

http://multimarine.com/portfolio-items/l-7-trimaran/

 

Pretty good looking too.

right. I forgot, boobs first, boats second!

bitties

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@NorseHorse I always thought a lightening would make a fun little coastal cruiser, you could certainly go places in one if you wanted to.

The one thing about all these micro cruisers is they all seem very slow, which I'm sure is a compromise for stability and safety, but I'd like to get to the places i'm going especially if I'm in such a small boat!

 

I imagine a little trimaran could be a bit speedier, and similarly safe. Something like this, in the 6-7 meter range.

 

Built of ply wood, all flat hull and lee boards. I'd love to see whats the best shape hull with only a curved bottom, would make it easy to build for sure.

I really like this L7 tri and could see building one now that the boatbuilding bug has hit me.

http://multimarine.com/portfolio-items/l-7-trimaran/

Pretty good looking too.

right. I forgot, boobs first, boats second!

Well done, noob!

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20170315 160414


I have to much time on my hands... seems to sail nice n the tub

I'm thinking leeboard foils on the amas so we can get mad upwind gains when the hulls gets flyin. I reckon it could cross the Atlantic faster than Rimas can get out of harbor :P

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I have to much time on my hands... seems to sail nice n the tub

I'm thinking leeboard foils on the amas so we can get mad upwind gains when the hulls gets flyin. I reckon it could cross the Atlantic faster than Rimas can get out of harbor :P

I suppose it would depend on who is towing him

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On 8/24/2014 at 0:16 PM, QBF said:

Graduating to a Smaller Boat
http://daveskaife.wordpress.com

Dave showed up in my driveway, which seems to be a magnet for strange boats, today.

He sailed the Bahamas, Cuba, and the Keys before concluding his journey in Marco Island, where a mutual friend picked him up.

He has sold the boat.

paradox.jpg

 

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37 minutes ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

Dave showed up in my driveway, which seems to be a magnet for strange boats, today.

He sailed the Bahamas, Cuba, and the Keys before concluding his journey in Marco Island, where a mutual friend picked him up.

He has sold the boat.

paradox.jpg

 

Webb Chiles mentions him in his Aug 24 post in a different boat. http://self-portraitinthepresentseajournal.blogspot.ca/

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1 minute ago, MisterMoon said:

No the Pathfinder was another guy's boat. It belongs to a fellow WT sailor "Deke". I saw it about two years ago in Tavernier while it was still under construction. 

Thanks

my mistake.

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On 8/29/2017 at 7:57 PM, Uncooperative Tom said:

Dave showed up in my driveway, which seems to be a magnet for strange boats, today.

He sailed the Bahamas, Cuba, and the Keys before concluding his journey in Marco Island, where a mutual friend picked him up.

He has sold the boat.

paradox.jpg

 

Tom

Thanks for posting that. His blog is great. A lot of useful tips and a great story about using his flashlight to punish rock-throwing vandals in the wild. (<-sounds dirtier than the actual story):

One final use: one night I was anchored about 40 feet from shore, at around 3:30am I was woken up by a loud splash, then a few seconds later a large rock bounced off my mast and front window. At this point I knew what was going on and lit up the shoreline with my light. It was like turning on the kitchen light and watching the cockroaches scatter. Those punks took off so fast they left behind their shoes, shirts and packs. I lit up the shore for about 20 minutes before getting bored and moving out beyond rock range. I was up at daylight and only then did I see the shivering, half naked vandals return to pick up their belongings. They spent two hours shivering in the bushes. Afraid of a flashlight. Still makes me chuckle. [https://daveskaife.wordpress.com/2014/09/30/gear-i-like-waypoint-spotlight-by-streamlight/]

Bill

 

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On 17/05/2016 at 10:32 PM, Panoramix said:

I miss the micro cruiser thread.

 

It is more a mini cruiser than a micro but this guy went around Britain with a 6.4m boat starting from Normandy. 1960s design that is still loved in Brittany and around. It is in French and not to Dylan's standards but he doesn't speak much... I think that it is interesting nonetheless because it shows what you can do on a small boat with standard skills.

 

 

 

 

Designer : Philippe HARLE

 

Look this

 

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8 minutes ago, Puntone said:

 

 

Designer : Philippe HARLE

 

Look this

 

Oh yes, there are plenty of muscadet videos, this one is cool. type "voile muscadet", "voilier muscadet" or "Harlé muscadet" and you tube will bring you many.

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5 minutes ago, Panoramix said:

Oh yes, there are plenty of muscadet videos, this one is cool. type "voile muscadet", "voilier muscadet" or "Harlé muscadet" and you tube will bring you many.

 

 

Tu peux parler français , je le suis et je vis en Toscane .

Thanks Panoramix .

More than 50 years I have passed my summer holydays in the sout of britain ( le croisic ). A cousin of mine had a Corsaire , I began sailing ith him . The last Harlé's I'have sailes was a Snacerre .

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Just now, Puntone said:

 

 

Tu peux parler français , je le suis et je vis en Toscane .

Thanks Panoramix .

More than 50 years I have passed my summer holydays in the south of britain ( le croisic ). A cousin of mine had a Corsaire , I began sailing with him . The last Harlé's I'have sailed was a Sancerre .

 

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5 minutes ago, Puntone said:

 

 

Tu peux parler français , je le suis et je vis en Toscane .

Thanks Panoramix .

More than 50 years I have passed my summer holydays in the sout of britain ( le croisic ). A cousin of mine had a Corsaire , I began sailing ith him . The last Harlé's I'have sailes was a Snacerre .

C'est bien aussi la Toscane!

Corsaire are interesting boats too. There is a Corsaire revival at the moment with some racing happening in western Brittany.

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Just now, Panoramix said:

C'est bien aussi la Toscane!

Corsaire are interesting boats too. There is a Corsaire revival at the moment with some racing happening in western Brittany.

 

 

Harle' boat makes a big family .

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On 9/12/2014 at 8:09 AM, Panoramix said:

 

Equally, now the assumption is that small boats don't need to be seaworthy for anything more than inshore stuff. I think that's a shame, you can design a small offshore seaworthy boat and they make great cruiser even if you just use them to do coastal stuff, even in the hands of a relatively inexperienced crew.

 

One French classic coming to my mind (6.4m, or 21ft) :

 

640px-Mousquetaire-572-sous-spi.jpg

 

Some people crossed the atlantic on it, most people used it for coastal cruising or racing, it is a mini cruiser (OK not micro), was affordable and many people managed to save the money to buy one.

 

You really don't need a 35 footer to cross the Atlantic, there is a sweet spot where you get the best capabilities for the money (18 to 28 ft IMHO), I think it is great to see people designing new micro cruisers. It would be even greater to see people buying them in mass again and this attitude "it needs to be big to be safe" doesn't help.

Serpentaire, I think? Maybe?  Or maybe the Serpentaire was mor elike 23 feet.  Bunch of guys took 'em, chainsawed off the back to make them 6.5 meters and that was the first basis of the Mini 6.5 class.

I quite like the looks of this little boat.

EDIT: ah, no --Muscadet.  I still like it.  I should read the whole thread before commenting at the end. Oyyy.

 

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On 9/4/2014 at 1:52 PM, RKoch said:

Guzzwell and Giles call it a yawl. Although the mizzen is fwd of the rudderpost (and aft the tillerpost), the proportions of the mizzen are yawl-like. ..

There's a pretty good pic of this on Tad Roberts' FB:

30222185_2034543136868953_59745280095860

Can someone explain this double headstay stuff to me?

30127153_2034543010202299_59988567745248

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I like how the tumblehome allow for a very stiff and strong hull / deck connection.

I imagine that the double headstay was to help with jib changes, I am not sure how though...

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4 hours ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

There's a pretty good pic of this on Tad Roberts' FB:

30222185_2034543136868953_59745280095860

Can someone explain this double headstay stuff to me?

30127153_2034543010202299_59988567745248

I also noticed the double head stay in that FB picture, and had questions. Not sure it was original when Guzzwell built it. As near as I can tell, both head stays are on highfield levers. My guess is that it's to make hoisting a second headsail easier. Twin headsails a common self-steering rig prior to wind vanes. Also, the boat was rigged with an inner stay from stem to upper spreaders. This would have to be removed when using the masthead Genoa to enable tacking it. Some means needed to tension it when in use. 

If i was to make one complaint about Guzzwell's book, it's that there's not enough details about Trekka. Most readers prob would find that boring. Not me...the boat was pretty unusual for the time, and obviously quite a successful design. I want to know every detail. I guess I need to visit Vancouver sometime.

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Pic from the book, nearing completion. At that time it appears  there was no provision for sheaves on stem fitting. IDK when they and the levers were added.

edit: connection error. Can't upload pic atm.

 

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3 hours ago, RKoch said:

I also noticed the double head stay in that FB picture, and had questions. Not sure it was original when Guzzwell built it. As near as I can tell, both head stays are on highfield levers. My guess is that it's to make hoisting a second headsail easier. Twin headsails a common self-steering rig prior to wind vanes. Also, the boat was rigged with an inner stay from stem to upper spreaders. This would have to be removed when using the masthead Genoa to enable tacking it. Some means needed to tension it when in use. 

If i was to make one complaint about Guzzwell's book, it's that there's not enough details about Trekka. Most readers prob would find that boring. Not me...the boat was pretty unusual for the time, and obviously quite a successful design. I want to know every detail. I guess I need to visit Vancouver sometime.

Trekka is in Victoria, apparently on display at the Cruise Ship Terminal. I'll have to pop down there and have a look.

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Here is stem head fitting during build. Doesn't appear that the sheaves were planned at that time. Not sure when they were added. That would be a good question to ask JG.

image.jpeg

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5 hours ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

Another question that comes to my mind with that bow setup is: what if I got done cruising one day and wanted to anchor?

He anchored often. I believe he used a CQR anchor, probably a 25 lb. IDK if he carried a second anchor. Pulling up an anchor by hand on a 20' boat wouldn't be a problem.

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7 hours ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

Another question that comes to my mind with that bow setup is: what if I got done cruising one day and wanted to anchor?

The old fashion way, put the chain in a wooden box that you bring on deck. If you come under sail, you drop it from the stern.

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Trekka, is one of my favorite designs.  The twin headstays are for downwind self steering with balanced  jibs poled out.  The are so many thoughtful design touches that she gets passed over in favor of more complex modern ideas.  Her sailing record is remarkable.

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13 hours ago, guerdon said:

Trekka, is one of my favorite designs.  The twin headstays are for downwind self steering with balanced  jibs poled out.  The are so many thoughtful design touches that she gets passed over in favor of more complex modern ideas.  Her sailing record is remarkable.

Interesting. Do you know what the tensionning levers are for?

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With the forestays so close together, would it be easier to attach jib hanks to a loosened forestay , and then tighten it into position?  If it loosened enough, you wouldn't have to go out to the very bow of the boat (slow, wet, dangerous) to change headsails.  How loose do the forestays get? 

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I'm pretty sure one of the 'head stays' only goes to the upper spreaders. I'll look for a pic of boat under small jib. It makes sense that stay is remove able when using masthead Genoa, so it can be tacked. Lever tensions stay when it's reattached. I'm not sure the reason for the second lever, on the 'upper' head stay.

under Genoa:

 

image.jpeg

Under small jib:

 

image.jpegAt dock. You can see the 'head stays aren't parallel. One goes to the masthead, the actual head stay. The other goes to the upper spreaders...I've always called it a jack stay, but perhaps there's another term. Running backs would counter it aft when jib is set.

image.jpeg

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Well it appears that I have joined the ranks of the mini (or micro?) cruisers. 

First order of business is to commission a nice boom tent for overnights. 

375D625D-ADDB-4D8E-8703-A0AF764745E9.jpeg

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11 minutes ago, Illegal Smile said:

Well it appears that I have joined the ranks of the mini (or micro?) cruisers. 

First order of business is to commission a nice boom tent for overnights.

Nice.  Looks like a Welsford Navigator

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15 minutes ago, Illegal Smile said:

Well it appears that I have joined the ranks of the mini (or micro?) cruisers. 

First order of business is to commission a nice boom tent for overnights. 

375D625D-ADDB-4D8E-8703-A0AF764745E9.jpeg

Sweet! Congrats, that's a really nice little boat

FB- Doug

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8 minutes ago, TwoLegged said:

Nice.  Looks like a Welsford Navigator

Thanks! Pathfinder. I want to go around the DelMarVa this summer or next, using the passage inside the barrier islands. Lots of cool stuff to see. 

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I had twin headstays on my first trimaran. Jibs were hanked on with standard bronze piston hanks and I found that they could hook themselves around the parallel stay as each sail filled and collapsed independently. Big surprise when I went up and couldn't drop either sail due to friction of the ganged up hanks! Might be part of the reason why the headstays on Trekka don't go to the same mast hound and are not parallel.

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11 hours ago, Illegal Smile said:

Well it appears that I have joined the ranks of the mini (or micro?) cruisers. 

First order of business is to commission a nice boom tent for overnights. 

375D625D-ADDB-4D8E-8703-A0AF764745E9.jpeg

Don't know if you participate, but John Welsford helps "his people" quite a bit on Facebook and it's fun to watch.

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Not sure if anyone has mentioned this little Welsford Houdini Spart'.  Possibly the the shortest sailboat to cross Bass Strait.

It was a courageous trip, but Generally John Welsford doesn't recommend doing major crossings like this in open boats.

 

 

3R

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