Corsair Pulse 600

[dayneger 0]

Frustrating that some sailors are so competitive that they'd have a collision just because they can.

 

In this case, so incompetent that they can be on port, in a mixed fleet of more than 20 boats short tacking up a channel, and have no one watching for (or even listening for) starboard traffic.

 

About being price-sensitive, I certainly understand since that's my situation as well. But like you said, I still hope this boat's a success even though it's currently out of my range. Plenty of people have the resources to for it, so we'll see if they do.

 

Great Red Shark, did you get the Honolulu boat out?

[vaplaya 0]

 

I really enjoy the local beer can races, which are all monos, so I picked up an Impulse 21 a bit ago. I love the design, huge comfortable cockpit, control pod for the strings in the middle, easy to singlehand or take out inexperienced sailors with the self-tacking jib. Unfortunately I got port-tacked by a Catalina 320 that acted with incredible determination (stupidity) to t-bone us despite all my attempts to both warn and evade. At 13'000 lbs to 1'300 lbs, my I21 lost... it's still on its trailer waiting to see if I'll repair the significant damage. At least no one got seriously hurt. We got knocked sideways so hard that the tiller snapped when it spun over and hit my arm, which miraculously didn't also break. I do sport a cool little scar left by the broken tiller tip as it swept past, though. My sailing gang wound.

 

Back to the thread at hand, in a couple of years I'd like to pick up a trimaran like the Pulse 600. Small tris are such a cool genre and this looks like a wonderful example.

 

I'm also impressed at the nice work you did on your own boat, jetboy. I do enough building projects to appreciate the time and dedication that took!

 

Ironically, I do also own a very special trimaran that I found on CL while looking for a boat to replace the I21. It started out as a 21' x 16' sailing tri that the prior owner designed and built in the late '90s. With a problematic back increasingly impeding sailing, he later converted it into a ridiculously cute motorboat with a cabin that sports lots of glass. I had to have it! The 9.8 hp 4 stroke outboard moves it along pleasantly at 11-12 knots and an amazing 25+ mpg. It's a great way to be on the water and even served admirably as a paddling mothership.

Sounds like fun!

 

Frustrating that some sailors are so competitive that they'd have a collision just because they can. One nice thing about even a small multihull boat like this is that there's not a Catalina on the water of any size or shape that will see anything other than your stern as you pass them.

 

The reason I asked was that - at least to me - price is a huge factor in whether a boat is something I'll own or not. Thank you for the kind words. When I started building my trimaran there simply wasn't anything on the market between the Weta and the F22/Sprint. I even tried to buy a 30 year old Tramp 2500 miles away but it didn't work out. I would much rather have bought one and spend the two years worth of weekends sailing not building. Just nothing available. I was pretty excited to see this boat hit the water. And originally at $35k it was at the top of my realistic budget but still in the range I might have been a buyer. At $50k+ it's just not realistic for me.

 

The reason I am as focused on price is that this market is saturated with $100k beach toys, yet the beach is full of $10k Getaways. About every year for the past 10+ years there's another amazing small trimaran that ends up in the six figure range, sells between zero and 5 boats, and is a market failure. I'd really like to see a market success. This is basically the sub-compact market. Ferrari doesn't sell a sub-compact for a reason. And that's basically why I'm concerned about the price point. Having a great boat that sells 5 or even 20 copies isn't going to be available very long. It doesn't matter how good the design is if they can't sell em.

 

That said - we know what the price is so we can probably quit talking about it. It will be curious to see how this does being $20k more than a Multi 23 and $35k more than a Astus 16.5, which IMO are its two closest competitors. I hope it sells well. It's a great looking boat.

 

 

I agree with most of your post.

 

I was ready to demo one in FL and to get in when the advertised price was ~33K. When it went to >$50K I was quickly out.

 

I disagree with the statement "That said - we know what the price is so we can probably quit talking about it"

 

We should talk about it!!!!! I seen to many times where the initial promised price is reasonable and the final price is way more.

 

I do not know if the P600 price is because of cost of manufacturing or search for large profits.

 

We should continue to talk about it as if it is because of profits, maybe they will run a 20% off sale that may make it attractive to a bigger segment of the market.

 

Cheers,

[zzarganas 1]

 

 

I really enjoy the local beer can races, which are all monos, so I picked up an Impulse 21 a bit ago. I love the design, huge comfortable cockpit, control pod for the strings in the middle, easy to singlehand or take out inexperienced sailors with the self-tacking jib. Unfortunately I got port-tacked by a Catalina 320 that acted with incredible determination (stupidity) to t-bone us despite all my attempts to both warn and evade. At 13'000 lbs to 1'300 lbs, my I21 lost... it's still on its trailer waiting to see if I'll repair the significant damage. At least no one got seriously hurt. We got knocked sideways so hard that the tiller snapped when it spun over and hit my arm, which miraculously didn't also break. I do sport a cool little scar left by the broken tiller tip as it swept past, though. My sailing gang wound.

 

Back to the thread at hand, in a couple of years I'd like to pick up a trimaran like the Pulse 600. Small tris are such a cool genre and this looks like a wonderful example.

 

I'm also impressed at the nice work you did on your own boat, jetboy. I do enough building projects to appreciate the time and dedication that took!

 

Ironically, I do also own a very special trimaran that I found on CL while looking for a boat to replace the I21. It started out as a 21' x 16' sailing tri that the prior owner designed and built in the late '90s. With a problematic back increasingly impeding sailing, he later converted it into a ridiculously cute motorboat with a cabin that sports lots of glass. I had to have it! The 9.8 hp 4 stroke outboard moves it along pleasantly at 11-12 knots and an amazing 25+ mpg. It's a great way to be on the water and even served admirably as a paddling mothership.

Sounds like fun!

 

Frustrating that some sailors are so competitive that they'd have a collision just because they can. One nice thing about even a small multihull boat like this is that there's not a Catalina on the water of any size or shape that will see anything other than your stern as you pass them.

 

The reason I asked was that - at least to me - price is a huge factor in whether a boat is something I'll own or not. Thank you for the kind words. When I started building my trimaran there simply wasn't anything on the market between the Weta and the F22/Sprint. I even tried to buy a 30 year old Tramp 2500 miles away but it didn't work out. I would much rather have bought one and spend the two years worth of weekends sailing not building. Just nothing available. I was pretty excited to see this boat hit the water. And originally at $35k it was at the top of my realistic budget but still in the range I might have been a buyer. At $50k+ it's just not realistic for me.

 

The reason I am as focused on price is that this market is saturated with $100k beach toys, yet the beach is full of $10k Getaways. About every year for the past 10+ years there's another amazing small trimaran that ends up in the six figure range, sells between zero and 5 boats, and is a market failure. I'd really like to see a market success. This is basically the sub-compact market. Ferrari doesn't sell a sub-compact for a reason. And that's basically why I'm concerned about the price point. Having a great boat that sells 5 or even 20 copies isn't going to be available very long. It doesn't matter how good the design is if they can't sell em.

 

That said - we know what the price is so we can probably quit talking about it. It will be curious to see how this does being $20k more than a Multi 23 and $35k more than a Astus 16.5, which IMO are its two closest competitors. I hope it sells well. It's a great looking boat.

 

 

I agree with most of your post.

 

I was ready to demo one in FL and to get in when the advertised price was ~33K. When it went to >$50K I was quickly out.

 

I disagree with the statement "That said - we know what the price is so we can probably quit talking about it"

 

We should talk about it!!!!! I seen to many times where the initial promised price is reasonable and the final price is way more.

 

I do not know if the P600 price is because of cost of manufacturing or search for large profits.

 

We should continue to talk about it as if it is because of profits, maybe they will run a 20% off sale that may make it attractive to a bigger segment of the market.

 

Cheers,

 

+1000

[Waynemarlow 4]

 

 

 

I do not know if the P600 price is because of cost of manufacturing or search for large profits.

 

 

Guys time you woke up to the fact that low volume production is expensive and if you want to play in the small Trimaran game, then its goner cost. Far better to think about syndicating boats as most of the time, most boats just sit in the harbour or on their trailer.

[Great Red Shark 36]

Day,

 

We had some great sailing conditions over the weekend, but alas the Pulse didn't sail - for whatever reasons, I enjoyed a great 2 days sailing my Megabyte - simply a great dinghy, that.

 

I understand the Pulse 600 went out Monday night though, so shake-down has begun - yes, it's owned (so I'm told) by one of our club's members that is a big boat owner with a young family - no doubt about to find how much fun you can have with small boats.

 

Weather system expected here anytime now, however - predicted to ramp up the breeze to 25+ for a couple days, probably keep them dockside until it backs of a click. Will update if anything of interest crops up.

 

On the Impulse - if you haven't logged on to the Yahoo User group ( Impulse 21 sailors ) you might find some support or interest there - if you are keen on keeping it or liquidating.

[suigeri 0]

 

I really enjoy the local beer can races, which are all monos, so I picked up an Impulse 21 a bit ago. I love the design, huge comfortable cockpit, control pod for the strings in the middle, easy to singlehand or take out inexperienced sailors with the self-tacking jib. Unfortunately I got port-tacked by a Catalina 320 that acted with incredible determination (stupidity) to t-bone us despite all my attempts to both warn and evade. At 13'000 lbs to 1'300 lbs, my I21 lost... it's still on its trailer waiting to see if I'll repair the significant damage. At least no one got seriously hurt. We got knocked sideways so hard that the tiller snapped when it spun over and hit my arm, which miraculously didn't also break. I do sport a cool little scar left by the broken tiller tip as it swept past, though. My sailing gang wound.

 

Back to the thread at hand, in a couple of years I'd like to pick up a trimaran like the Pulse 600. Small tris are such a cool genre and this looks like a wonderful example.

 

I'm also impressed at the nice work you did on your own boat, jetboy. I do enough building projects to appreciate the time and dedication that took!

 

Ironically, I do also own a very special trimaran that I found on CL while looking for a boat to replace the I21. It started out as a 21' x 16' sailing tri that the prior owner designed and built in the late '90s. With a problematic back increasingly impeding sailing, he later converted it into a ridiculously cute motorboat with a cabin that sports lots of glass. I had to have it! The 9.8 hp 4 stroke outboard moves it along pleasantly at 11-12 knots and an amazing 25+ mpg. It's a great way to be on the water and even served admirably as a paddling mothership.

Sounds like fun!

 

Frustrating that some sailors are so competitive that they'd have a collision just because they can. One nice thing about even a small multihull boat like this is that there's not a Catalina on the water of any size or shape that will see anything other than your stern as you pass them.

 

The reason I asked was that - at least to me - price is a huge factor in whether a boat is something I'll own or not. Thank you for the kind words. When I started building my trimaran there simply wasn't anything on the market between the Weta and the F22/Sprint. I even tried to buy a 30 year old Tramp 2500 miles away but it didn't work out. I would much rather have bought one and spend the two years worth of weekends sailing not building. Just nothing available. I was pretty excited to see this boat hit the water. And originally at $35k it was at the top of my realistic budget but still in the range I might have been a buyer. At $50k+ it's just not realistic for me.

 

The reason I am as focused on price is that this market is saturated with $100k beach toys, yet the beach is full of $10k Getaways. About every year for the past 10+ years there's another amazing small trimaran that ends up in the six figure range, sells between zero and 5 boats, and is a market failure. I'd really like to see a market success. This is basically the sub-compact market. Ferrari doesn't sell a sub-compact for a reason. And that's basically why I'm concerned about the price point. Having a great boat that sells 5 or even 20 copies isn't going to be available very long. It doesn't matter how good the design is if they can't sell em.

 

That said - we know what the price is so we can probably quit talking about it. It will be curious to see how this does being $20k more than a Multi 23 and $35k more than a Astus 16.5, which IMO are its two closest competitors. I hope it sells well. It's a great looking boat.

 

Well, Astus 16.5 price is not so low what you think. $15k Astus is with dacron sails, no flying head sail and no mainsail track and aluminium daggerboard.! With all extras the price is more than $28k.

 

suigeri

[dayneger 0]

I disagree with the statement "That said - we know what the price is so we can probably quit talking about it"

 

We should talk about it!!!!!

 

With all due respect, you have talked about it.

 

Again. And again. And again. With really nothing new to add each time other than that you feel it's too expensive for what's on offer. We get it by now.

 

Is there any chance you would consider writing Corsair directly with your opinion and stop posting the same content to this thread?

[dayneger 0]

 

Weather system expected here anytime now, however - predicted to ramp up the breeze to 25+ for a couple days, probably keep them dockside until it backs of a click. Will update if anything of interest crops up.

 

 

Maybe you could generously offer to test it under higher winds for them to make sure it's safe?

[Tornado_ALIVE 41]

The price is what it is...... If you don't like it, don't buy it. You are not being forced to. If you find another boat cheaper that you are happy with, the buy it. If they are all too expensive, build one yourself if you can or go buy a jet ski.

[jetboy 0]

 

 

I really enjoy the local beer can races, which are all monos, so I picked up an Impulse 21 a bit ago. I love the design, huge comfortable cockpit, control pod for the strings in the middle, easy to singlehand or take out inexperienced sailors with the self-tacking jib. Unfortunately I got port-tacked by a Catalina 320 that acted with incredible determination (stupidity) to t-bone us despite all my attempts to both warn and evade. At 13'000 lbs to 1'300 lbs, my I21 lost... it's still on its trailer waiting to see if I'll repair the significant damage. At least no one got seriously hurt. We got knocked sideways so hard that the tiller snapped when it spun over and hit my arm, which miraculously didn't also break. I do sport a cool little scar left by the broken tiller tip as it swept past, though. My sailing gang wound.

 

Back to the thread at hand, in a couple of years I'd like to pick up a trimaran like the Pulse 600. Small tris are such a cool genre and this looks like a wonderful example.

 

I'm also impressed at the nice work you did on your own boat, jetboy. I do enough building projects to appreciate the time and dedication that took!

 

Ironically, I do also own a very special trimaran that I found on CL while looking for a boat to replace the I21. It started out as a 21' x 16' sailing tri that the prior owner designed and built in the late '90s. With a problematic back increasingly impeding sailing, he later converted it into a ridiculously cute motorboat with a cabin that sports lots of glass. I had to have it! The 9.8 hp 4 stroke outboard moves it along pleasantly at 11-12 knots and an amazing 25+ mpg. It's a great way to be on the water and even served admirably as a paddling mothership.

Sounds like fun!

 

Frustrating that some sailors are so competitive that they'd have a collision just because they can. One nice thing about even a small multihull boat like this is that there's not a Catalina on the water of any size or shape that will see anything other than your stern as you pass them.

 

The reason I asked was that - at least to me - price is a huge factor in whether a boat is something I'll own or not. Thank you for the kind words. When I started building my trimaran there simply wasn't anything on the market between the Weta and the F22/Sprint. I even tried to buy a 30 year old Tramp 2500 miles away but it didn't work out. I would much rather have bought one and spend the two years worth of weekends sailing not building. Just nothing available. I was pretty excited to see this boat hit the water. And originally at $35k it was at the top of my realistic budget but still in the range I might have been a buyer. At $50k+ it's just not realistic for me.

 

The reason I am as focused on price is that this market is saturated with $100k beach toys, yet the beach is full of $10k Getaways. About every year for the past 10+ years there's another amazing small trimaran that ends up in the six figure range, sells between zero and 5 boats, and is a market failure. I'd really like to see a market success. This is basically the sub-compact market. Ferrari doesn't sell a sub-compact for a reason. And that's basically why I'm concerned about the price point. Having a great boat that sells 5 or even 20 copies isn't going to be available very long. It doesn't matter how good the design is if they can't sell em.

 

That said - we know what the price is so we can probably quit talking about it. It will be curious to see how this does being $20k more than a Multi 23 and $35k more than a Astus 16.5, which IMO are its two closest competitors. I hope it sells well. It's a great looking boat.

 

Well, Astus 16.5 price is not so low what you think. $15k Astus is with dacron sails, no flying head sail and no mainsail track and aluminium daggerboard.! With all extras the price is more than $28k.

 

suigeri

 

That may very well be true. But, you can still buy a $15k Astus and go sailing. My guess is 90% of Astus sales will be the base model. These are beach toys. Most users don't really care a whole lot about having a big asym. Hobie sells a LOT of getaways. Possibly the Pulse needs a "base model" with aluminum spars, dacron sails, and entry level hardware? I'm not sure what that does to net price.

[Great Red Shark 36]

fwiw, the one in Waikiki has an alloy mast.

[Bruno 0]

 

 

 

I do not know if the P600 price is because of cost of manufacturing or search for large profits.

Guys time you woke up to the fact that low volume production is expensive and if you want to play in the small Trimaran game, then its goner cost. Far better to think about syndicating boats as most of the time, most boats just sit in the harbour or on their trailer.

Very true, though syndicating may work for a group who want to do something together, time share fractional ownership won't work for racing.

Trimarans cost almost triple a mono, cats nearly double, depending on details and specific models (eg j70, m20, etc.) so they are always going to cost more. If they are built for high performance then they need high performance materials, engineering and workmanship. Currently I constantly hear complaints about the cost of doing work but the truth is none of my employees or competitors are getting rich, they are all scraping by. So how can you build something affordable?

 

That's just it, what is a customer willing to sacrifice for his pleasure craft? I see people dropping huge sums on their cars or motorcycles, or electronics but when it comes a boat its always too much. I would suggest that it may be a question of priorities and market distortion making it hard to create value for the buyer. If it was just one time, then yeh maybe there is some gouging, but when there aren't any more builders domestically I don't think you can accuse them of profiteering.

 

Here's a thought, why not settle for less. If you want a dayracer trimaran, buy a kit and complete it yourself. And the class will have to accept a nonSMOD model for racing. If you want to achieve a goal then work towards it rather than thinking that you can just buy it and plug and play? Corsair afaik is building in Vietnam, thereby avoiding higher labor, shop, insurance, and environmental costs. These are offset by some other things but they have made their choice. Can someone else make a stripped out tri that undercuts them on price yet matches performance? Maybe, it would be good to see it.

[dayneger 0]

Looks like Chris White's updating his 20' Discovery, now 21'3" LOA, 15'9" beam, only around 620-650 lbs. Retains the more "sit in" style of its predecessor, and folded amas way up in the air on the trailer (must be launched at full beam). Targeted launch date this July.

 

However, it's priced at $20k as a kit, or $64k fully built with what looks like a nice spec including a rotating carbon stick.

 

Perhaps another way of saying it is that well-built trimarans in this size range unfortunately do seem to cost real money.

 

Now, if only we could crank out a minimum of 100'000+ of this genre per year so that we could generate some decent volume efficiency...

 

 

 

 

[dayneger 0]

fwiw, the one in Waikiki has an alloy mast.

 

Have you had a chance to get out on the local boat yet?

[jetboy 0]

Looks like Chris White's updating his 20' Discovery, now 21'3" LOA, 15'9" beam, only around 620-650 lbs. Retains the more "sit in" style of its predecessor, and folded amas way up in the air on the trailer (must be launched at full beam). Targeted launch date this July.

 

However, it's priced at $20k as a kit, or $64k fully built with what looks like a nice spec including a rotating carbon stick.

 

Perhaps another way of saying it is that well-built trimarans in this size range unfortunately do seem to cost real money.

 

Now, if only we could crank out a minimum of 100'000+ of this genre per year so that we could generate some decent volume efficiency...

 

 

 

 

At $64k - they'll sell zero. Just like Motive.

[Woxbox 0]

I'm puzzled by this market, too. Who's the target buyer? Personally, if I was going to downsize and couldn't sleep overnight on my next trimaran, I'd go the Weta route. I can't see all that extra expense and a bigger mast to raise, etc., for a marginal jump in performance that adds nothing more, as in Weta vs. the 900. I was in a handicap mixed-fleet race not too far back where a Multi 23 was entered. Here these guys were in a very spartan, open boat racing mostly F24 and F27s and the like, and weren't any faster. Indeed, slower than most and enjoying not half the comfort. Do they really expect to develop a one-design class with these things?

[unShirley 1]

In moderate and stronger winds a M23 will smoke an F27 if it is being sailed properly.

 

I am a former Weta owner and loved the boat....for singlehanded racing and daysailing. But, as soon as you load it up with weight, it bogs. Thus, the attraction of the Pulse, Searail, Astus 16.5 is the ability to take a cooler and some friends. But, is taking some friends and beers with you worth $15k - $30k more in initial cost?

 

Woxbox, your point about raising a bigger mast is relevant too. A Weta mast can be picked up and set in place by a single person. Anything bigger is going to have to have to be pulled up by the forestay.

[paulnudd 4]

I saw a pulse for the first time on the weekend and sailed a regatta with it. This was at Kurnell on Botany Bay - Sydney.

I didn't get a close up look at it and I have no idea what the new owner paid for it.

It was the first proper outing for the owner after a familiarisation sail with the local dealer.

The owner and crew are experienced Taipan cat sailors and I expect they will sail it to it's potential once they get used to it.

At times over the weekend the pulse demonstrated formidable performance.

Also competing was the mk1 sprint that i owned up to a year ago. The new owner has improved the sprint and had a year to figure it out, including the recent Marlay Point Race.

Keith and his crew sailed very well throughout the regatta and even worried Two Tribes in the very light races.

My impression is that a well sailed pulse will be more than competitive with well sailed sprints dashs etc.

I think they have proven to be a good od class already in Thailand and expect they will do the same here.

[honestjohn 7]

So the big question, for Wangi multihull Nationals, div 2 or div 3 . or to simplify....... whats it rate?

[WetnWild 8]

So the big question, for Wangi multihull Nationals, div 2 or div 3 . or to simplify....... whats it rate?

Looks pretty clearly Div 2 but surely one will be OMR measured soon. Reports seem to indicate Sprint/F22R speed especially on the flat water at Wangi. What do you think Mr Hackett? Would love to see one in the Bay to Bay. Perfect for that race.

[plywoodboy 30]

Would be great. Crew sleeping up on nets might attract the dingoes at Garrys Anchorage overnight though?

[Chidz 4]

Yup - all you locals around East coast of Aus will be pleased to know I gave Nuddy a real good nudge at times over the weekend. He didn't have to turn his head backwards a few times to see us (tee hee), Not finished tweaking and learning to make the lil ole Sprint mk1 to go ... slowly getting there. [btw - claim to fame: won the race to the first mark of the first heat of the regatta ... all the rest was fluff ;-) ]

Re the Pulse on the weekend on Botany (similar was my first close up look), and sorry to say was generally underwhelmed. At times it put on some absolutely blinding speed, but was generally behind us + breaking things/sail handling snafus.

For the $$ give me the speed we had, the comfort we sailed in, and I got a lovely sleep on board overnight.

 

I'm sure there is a market somewhere, and I wish them all the best, but is going to be a tough sell to get a fleet going around Syd.

 

btw Mr Hackeeet .... watch out for us next year ... B2B has been put on our travelling agenda ;-)

 

cheers

 

Keith C

[WetnWild 8]

Would be great. Crew sleeping up on nets might attract the dingoes at Garrys Anchorage overnight though?

Haven't found it a problem. I think they are repelled by the smell of rum.

[Rantifarian 1]

 

Would be great. Crew sleeping up on nets might attract the dingoes at Garrys Anchorage overnight though?

Haven't found it a problem. I think they are repelled by the smell of rum.

They never bothered the bodies strewn about the deck and cockpit of Elliot 7's stern up on the beach. I think the rum cloud there kept away mosquito's and sandies too. Such useful stuff, that rum.

 

What are the rules on trail able for multis in bay to bay? I remember that stupid fast carbon cat a while back now, which looked miles too long for any legal trailer.

[WetnWild 8]

 

 

Would be great. Crew sleeping up on nets might attract the dingoes at Garrys Anchorage overnight though?

Haven't found it a problem. I think they are repelled by the smell of rum.

They never bothered the bodies strewn about the deck and cockpit of Elliot 7's stern up on the beach. I think the rum cloud there kept away mosquito's and sandies too. Such useful stuff, that rum.

 

What are the rules on trail able for multis in bay to bay? I remember that stupid fast carbon cat a while back now, which looked miles too long for any legal trailer.

Not sure which cat you're thinking about. If you mean Mad Max it's stupid fast, its carbon and it's legal trailerable.

[Rantifarian 1]

I thought it was something like carbon copy, not sure. Maybe 8-10 years ago. Maybe it was trailerable, must have been a bloody big trailer.

[WetnWild 8]

I thought it was something like carbon copy, not sure. Maybe 8-10 years ago. Maybe it was trailerable, must have been a bloody big trailer.

Carbon Copy is Mad Max. Name change after Darryl Dorsett sold it to Tony Considine. Definitely B2B eligible.

[plywoodboy 30]

Yes but never slept on or in like the rest of our real trailable boats.

They have a nice support vessel for a dry be and one day I will sneak aboard for a hot shower.

[honestjohn 7]

"A dingo took my sheethand", a slight variation on a famous line!.

[Sailabout 14]

sorry for the hijack but how does the m23 go versus dash or sprint

would a pulse beat a m23 in the right conditions?

[chippin' away 0]

M23 is faster than sprint/dash

 

Do not know about Pulse.

[Sailabout 14]

M23 is faster than sprint/dash

 

 

yer but does it ever win a race when its not flat water and reaching?

[WetnWild 8]

M23 is faster than sprint/dash

 

Do not know about Pulse.

Not in the last multihull nationals

[JoeyG 0]

M23 is faster than sprint/dash

 

 

Do not know about Pulse.

 

I've raced both types of sprint against a m23 numerous times. The m23 rates a -7 to our 33, and has never beaten us boat for boat in w/l racing.

[JoeyG 0]

M23 is faster than sprint/dash

 

 

Do not know about Pulse.

 

I've raced both types of sprint against a m23 numerous times. The m23 rates a -7 to our 33, and has never beaten us boat for boat in w/l racing.

[chippin' away 0]

The m23 is a faster boat in most conditions. The rating tells you that and I have seen it in multiple races.

[Sailabout 14]

my observation is its only faster in some conditions hence not bringing the tin home very often at all

makes me think a pulse might beat it?

[chippin' away 0]

OK. I guess I should add that the M23 I'm talking about was being sailed by Randy Smythe at the time....

[DennisY 0]

"I've raced both types of sprint against a m23 numerous times. The m23 rates a -7 to our 33, and has never beaten us boat for boat in w/l racing. "

 

in that case either the m23 is rated to low (ie -7 vs +???) or the sprints are should be rated at a lower value (ie -15 or -??)

[DennisY 0]

FWIW, Texel numbers for the Sprint 750, M23 and Pulse 600 respectively are 110, 93 and 99. Pulse should out perform the Sprint as would the M23.

[Sailabout 14]

FWIW, Texel numbers for the Sprint 750, M23 and Pulse 600 respectively are 110, 93 and 99. Pulse should out perform the Sprint as would the M23.

sure but the M23 seems to have design issues that means it cant sail to handicap unless flat water and reaching.

Maybe it should be in the beachcat fleet?

[silvestert 0]

I just received a quotation for a Pulse 600...

 

I am still shocked that at a such high base price there are like 5 options one must take. One of them is Assy with sprit for something like 2500$

 

So basically we need to add something like 10k $ for extras and freight + tax which ads up to more than 50k USD... for a 6m boat... Sad...

[WetnWild 8]

I just received a quotation for a Pulse 600...

 

I am still shocked that at a such high base price there are like 5 options one must take. One of them is Assy with sprit for something like 2500$

 

So basically we need to add something like 10k $ for extras and freight + tax which ads up to more than 50k USD... for a 6m boat... Sad...

You're very lucky. That's cheap compared to AUS.

[Sailabout 14]

Get a good ski boat for 50usd....

[AClass USA 230 7]

Regarding Sprint versus M23, the Sprint typically is faster than the M23 upwind especially if there is chop or waves. Downwind, the M23 is faster. This is based on my experience racing my Sprint 750 Mk I versus an M23 sailed by sailors like Randy Smyth and Don Wigston (my regional Corsair dealer).

 

This past weekend I went sailing with Don on his demo Pulse 600 in 15-20 knots of breeze. The boat is way better looking person than in pics IMO. The workmanship looks excellent. The rigging systems need help. Both the traveller and the mainsheet need more power. The main halyard system is spec'd way too light. Not sure that sheeting the jib to a single point on the cuddy top is optiimal but the sheeting angle looked OK for the sailing we did. I think a short track on each side would be better.

 

We did not put a chute up but broad reaching in 18-20 knots with main/jib was impressive. We were doing 14-16 knots with ease and the leeward float bow never tripped. The boat sails with the knuckle down which seemed strange (the Sprint seems more bow up). The boat seems smaller for sure than the Sprint but I was pleasantly surprised how well it sailed upwind and the helm balance was perfect.

 

I think in light air, the Sprint will be faster upwind, possibly not downwind. Same in heavy air except I think a well sailed Pulse will be faster because I believe you will be able to push it harder. I'd love to have the Pulse float design on my Sprint.

[Tom Kirkman 4]

Assuming I have your terminology correctly in mind ("knuckle down") I've noticed that nearly all of the most recent sport trimaran designs, and particularly those from VPLP, seem intended to be sailed bow down, stern up. The underside of the forward third to front half of the bow is even upswept to facilitate his. None seem to have planing hulls which I'm guessing plays a role in the intended sailing attitude.

[Waynemarlow 4]

Pulse will be reliant on the Spinny to lift the nose as is common on moden beach cats.

[paulnudd 4]

OK. I guess I should add that the M23 I'm talking about was being sailed by Randy Smythe at the time....

put Randy in a sprint and anyone you like in M23 to see which is faster. I think you will find the sprint faster in nearly all conditions.

[paulnudd 4]

I thought it was something like carbon copy, not sure. Maybe 8-10 years ago. Maybe it was trailerable, must have been a bloody big trailer.

Not that big. MadMax/Carbon Copy is only 10M long and weighs less than half of a 10M trailable monohull. A small light trailer is sufficient. However a large heavier trailer is easier on the boat for trailing. Mast length can be problematic. Morticia uses a 2 piece mast.

[WetnWild 8]

Get a good ski boat for 50usd....

Why would a sailor want that.

[Groucho Marx 29]

here's my 6.5 x 6.5 metre swing beam trimaran. Kind of like the Corsair 6 m - but different. On hold for the time being because having to repair my 8.5 fixed beam version Sid.

[Bruno 0]

Interesting box beam is that ply or timber?

[Sailabout 14]

 

Get a good ski boat for 50usd....

Why would a sailor want that.

 

I'm pointing out that small sailing boat prices have surpassed all our other toys. Your beach cat can now cost more than your car towing it

[Groucho Marx 29]

Interesting box beam is that ply or timber?

4mm ply; airfoil skin will be 3 or 2.7mm if I can get the latter. Here's the tiller setup and main boom. Also shot of forward deck and dagger position.

[AClass USA 230 7]

 

OK. I guess I should add that the M23 I'm talking about was being sailed by Randy Smythe at the time....

put Randy in a sprint and anyone you like in M23 to see which is faster. I think you will find the sprint faster in nearly all conditions.

I've sailed with and against Randy since 1992. As recently as last year we had a great battle with him at the Corsair Nationals in Pensacola in the Sprint 750 class. We won some races, he won some, he beat us by a couple of points for the class win. If I was on a Multi 23 and Randy was on a Sprint, I'm pretty sure in a straight line I could sail the M23 faster than he could sail the Sprint, both boats downwind with a chute and probably reaching with a code Zero/screacher. The M23 is pretty quick for it's size downwind. It's not bad upwind in flat water but gets pitched around a bit upwind in breeze and chop. The Pulse 600 and the M23 matchup could be interesting. All three are good boats for good multihull handicap racing.

[Bruno 0]

 

Interesting box beam is that ply or timber?

4mm ply; airfoil skin will be 3 or 2.7mm if I can get the latter. Here's the tiller setup and main boom. Also shot of forward deck and dagger position.

 

Thanks, looks like some thought went into it. Are the ply joints staggered from side to side or scarfed? Just asking because spans look >8'

[suigeri 0]

 

 

Interesting box beam is that ply or timber?

4mm ply; airfoil skin will be 3 or 2.7mm if I can get the latter. Here's the tiller setup and main boom. Also shot of forward deck and dagger position.

 

Thanks, looks like some thought went into it. Are the ply joints staggered from side to side or scarfed? Just asking because spans look >8'

 

Bruno, this is Pulse 600 topic. Start your own topic for Mr Marx plywood monster.

[zzarganas 1]

Watch before DL steal it lol

 

https://youtu.be/va_soDgpEiQ

[Groucho Marx 29]

 

 

 

Interesting box beam is that ply or timber?

4mm ply; airfoil skin will be 3 or 2.7mm if I can get the latter. Here's the tiller setup and main boom. Also shot of forward deck and dagger position.

 

Thanks, looks like some thought went into it. Are the ply joints staggered from side to side or scarfed? Just asking because spans look >8'

 

Bruno, this is Pulse 600 topic. Start your own topic for Mr Marx plywood monster.

 

Apologies for impolite hijack ... but final comment/reply; joints are scarphed and then wrapped in uni-directional carbon. If you want to know more, go to boatdesign.net - 6.5 to 7.5 racer/cruiser. Cheers.

[Bruno 0]

a sui generis hack

[silvestert 0]

Watch before DL steal it lol

 

It was a nice Sunday sailing... Top speed downwind was 14.8 kts... Forecasts was 9 kts easterly with gust up to 13 kts...

[Red Cordial 0]

For anyone thinking of keeping their boat in the water, we've only just put ours on a "Jet Dock". The 5hp outboard can push it about a third of the way onto the dock & then you winch it up. It has a system so you can use the same winch to move the boat backwards to make it easy to push off.

[sail(plane) 8]

 

For anyone thinking of keeping their boat in the water, we've only just put ours on a "Jet Dock". The 5hp outboard can push it about a third of the way onto the dock & then you winch it up. It has a system so you can use the same winch to move the boat backwards to make it easy to push off.

 

 

Red, that´s very interesting. I checked the website and says nothing of (keel-less) sailboats. How did you make sure that the floats sit on the surface, but not so much that they take the load off the center hull? In the water this happens naturally. The floats are not designed to support the full weight of the boat while folded.

[teamvmg 7]

 

 

For anyone thinking of keeping their boat in the water, we've only just put ours on a "Jet Dock". The 5hp outboard can push it about a third of the way onto the dock & then you winch it up. It has a system so you can use the same winch to move the boat backwards to make it easy to push off.

 

 

Red, that´s very interesting. I checked the website and says nothing of (keel-less) sailboats. How did you make sure that the floats sit on the surface, but not so much that they take the load off the center hull? In the water this happens naturally. The floats are not designed to support the full weight of the boat while folded.

 

Why do you say that? I thought that the Farrier folding system was used

[lakepee 0]

 

 

 

For anyone thinking of keeping their boat in the water, we've only just put ours on a "Jet Dock". The 5hp outboard can push it about a third of the way onto the dock & then you winch it up. It has a system so you can use the same winch to move the boat backwards to make it easy to push off.

 

Red, that´s very interesting. I checked the website and says nothing of (keel-less) sailboats. How did you make sure that the floats sit on the surface, but not so much that they take the load off the center hull? In the water this happens naturally. The floats are not designed to support the full weight of the boat while folded.

Why do you say that? I thought that the Farrier folding system was used

It's an unlicensed unapproved copy of the FFS with some changes. In any case, the FFS is not designed for the floats to carry much weight when the boat is folded. When the boat is folded and on a trailer proper bunk board setup has the entire weight of the boat sitting on the main hull, the float bunks should be making only light contact to balance the boat and should not be carrying any weight.

[lakepee 0]

Duplicate post...

[Red Cordial 0]

The weight of the boat is almost entirely sitting on the main hull. For now I've wedged a flat fender under the bow which prevents any rocking for and aft. There are two very large fenders placed under each float near the bulkhead where the akas mounts. They are almost completely deflated so they spread out over a large area, to stop any rocking/healing.

 

The boat's back home now & over the winter we'll have proper ama supports made to spread the load even further. I'll look into whether a R.I.B. repair company may be able to make full length tubes to go under the amas and then be lightly inflated once in situ.

 

Cheers

[sail(plane) 8]

 

 

 

 

 

 

For anyone thinking of keeping their boat in the water, we've only just put ours on a "Jet Dock". The 5hp outboard can push it about a third of the way onto the dock & then you winch it up. It has a system so you can use the same winch to move the boat backwards to make it easy to push off.

 

Red, that´s very interesting. I checked the website and says nothing of (keel-less) sailboats. How did you make sure that the floats sit on the surface, but not so much that they take the load off the center hull? In the water this happens naturally. The floats are not designed to support the full weight of the boat while folded.

Why do you say that? I thought that the Farrier folding system was used

Vmg, actually it never ocurred to me that supporting the full weight on the floats while folded could be a design case... is it?

[cfarrah 0]

There was some great Pulse sailing at the Smyth clinic this past weekend... The Pulse (with Randy coaching) walked over a Corsair 31R (with Wigston coaching)... It was pretty cool to see. Wild how flat it was sailing upwind in breeze that had the 31R on it's side. Could be that it was overloaded with people (I think they both had 5 on board), but it was really fun to watch. It's a very cool boat.

 

I'm not sure what it rates, but you can forget any questions that you may have about how fast the boat is. It's very, very fast.

 

C

[bhyde 183]

Wigston: "Hey Randy."

Randy: "What's up?"

Wigston: "I'll let you sail over me so I can sell a few P600s."

Randy: "No problem bro. It's all good."

 

Sorry, I'll believe it when I see it.

[dayneger 0]

Way to snot all over someone else's observations! Good work.

 

Anyway, what I took out of Strategery's comments is that if it's hanging around a 31R, which if I recall usually has a minus PHRF rating, it must be a pretty quick 20 footer.

 

What was the true wind range? Sea state?

[bhyde 183]

"Walked over a F31R" is far from "hanging around." Love the P600, might even buy one, but let's be real.

[DaveK 5]

Had one of these show up this past weekend at the Turnback Canyon Regatta...... Definitely peaked my interest.

 

[RedTuna 2]

Neat. Is it a Texas boat?

 

A bit surprised to see AYC rated it the same as the Sprint 750.

[DaveK 5]

Neat. Is it a Texas boat?

 

A bit surprised to see AYC rated it the same as the Sprint 750.

 

Yeah Houston..... I'm not surprised AYC messed up scoring....... again

[Bob's Your Uncle 1]

A bit surprised to see AYC rated it the same as the Sprint 750.

 

What's the opinion on what the rating should be?

 

If it "walked over the F-31R" with 5 aboard, as described above, then rating should be the same as, or faster???

 

***R. Thompson***

[SCANAS 175]

2000kg V. 450kg

[honestjohn 7]

mast height, sail area,waterline length, hull dynamics, weight is not the only difference, Scanas, no good just pulling out one part of the difference.

[bhyde 183]

 

Neat. Is it a Texas boat?

 

A bit surprised to see AYC rated it the same as the Sprint 750.

 

Yeah Houston..... I'm not surprised AYC messed up scoring....... again

 

 

Couldn't find the rating sheet. What did they give it? PHRF=30ish?

[RedTuna 2]

PHRF=33 for both.

 

Owner appears to be an A-Cat racer, too.

[bhyde 183]

Seems about right. Gotta start somewhere.

[SCANAS 175]

mast height, sail area,waterline length, hull dynamics, weight is not the only difference, Scanas, no good just pulling out one part of the difference.

Ah yes, thanks Capt. Obvious. Weight is the biggest point of difference & explains the high rating for the smaller, less powerful boat.

[GybeSet 20]

of course weight is different between boats with that size difference

 

by the way, it's a handicap and a stab in the dark at the speed, not a rating

 

Once the bullshit has settled this boat may not beat a WELL-sailed f24 mkII

[Sailabout 14]

I will find out in a month or so versus

Dash MkII and Sprint Mk1 ( light air weapon)

[honestjohn 7]

Is someone going to bring one up to Wangi for the Nationals in November?