GC Sailor

Corsair Pulse 600

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Off topic I know but hey - this is anarchy, Ozmultis what's that front wheel?

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It is a wet ride because they are sitting with four people onboard.

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Hi Paul

 

Its the mighty Vstrom 650 XT that has taken me over great swathes of this fine land (and Bass Strait on the Ferry)

Nice. I had a Tiger 800, now swapped for a Street Triple 660 so that barb can legally ride it.

Also have a KTM Freeride 250R (2 stroke) and a TTR230 road/trail.

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Either I have lost track or there has not been much information on worldwide sales. Can anyone refresh my memory on the approximate TOTAL sales numbers for the Pulse? Thanks.

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Either I have lost track or there has not been much information on worldwide sales. Can anyone refresh my memory on the approximate TOTAL sales numbers for the Pulse? Thanks.

Hull 55 is listed for sale at corsair dealer in Colorado....

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I noticed that too. Four people on that boat is a lot, I would expect two to be the right number. Still the way it stuffed the bows in the downwind was eye opening. For a boat that is supposedly under canvassed in those winds and seas I would not have expected that.

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Might be down to how it was sailed more so than the boat. Everybody seemed to be in the cockpit. The boat was doing mid teens so breeze had to be in 20s.

 

Mizzmo (I laugh every time I think of why that name) - I think you and I would have had bodies stacked aft and to windward on the float and aft beam in that and we have bigger boats. Didn't sound like anyone was calling puffs and no turn down either. Don't know the boat so maybe that's normal for the Pulse but seemed like that might have been mitigated with a few of the normal steps on our own little pleasure craft, no?

 

Looked like they were having a blast though and that is what matters!

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Too many people and too far forward,those are very large floats,sailed right it should cope, everyone to the back and out! Short steep seas can be hard on little boats pitching them in when the stern lifts, so steering to the puffs and the swells is the secret.(I have a 20 ft Ostac Tramp, with low volume floats, so know a bit about this).

Looks like they were having a blast, the speed was effortless!

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I crewed on one a few weeks ago in 10-20 variable conditions. We were two up, and trimming the jib much tighter that the foursome in the videos, and also pinning the spin sheet and sailing hotter angles even when breeze was up. We stuffed hard once, but she is a forgiving little beast, and I will race her again. A bit sticky in under 12, though.

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I crewed on one a few weeks ago in 10-20 variable conditions. We were two up, and trimming the jib much tighter that the foursome in the videos, and also pinning the spin sheet and sailing hotter angles even when breeze was up. We stuffed hard once, but she is a forgiving little beast, and I will race her again. A bit sticky in under 12, though.

 

I just finished sailing a pulse in Kings Cup in Phuket with a mate.

 

I agree with what is said above; we sailed in 0 to 35 knots and found the tri to be quite forgiving; we never stuffed the bows in hard, but both of us have a lot of F18 experience; it is very fun to sail in high winds; on a long distance race around islands, we spent 3 of 3.5 hours in the hiking straps and finished an hour ahead of the next of 5 Pulses. I will take my GF along as coskipper next time we race these.

 

In light winds a Platu 25 is faster; it would be nice with a high performance version with a 2-3 m taller mast and rudders/curved foils on outer hulls.

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I'm hearing that the European dealer is setting up a Euro race series for these little guys, should help sales if that is the case.

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I'm hearing that the European dealer is setting up a Euro race series for these little guys, should help sales if that is the case.

 

Where did you get this from?

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Has anyone here upgraded the wardrobe with a light wind sail i.e. Code 0 or similar?

 

I usually don't go out sailing in less than 5 kts of wind, but we still have plenty of 5-12 kts TWS for which the original NS spinnaker is not flat enough for reaching (TWA 90°). AWA tends to be somewhere near 50-60° and would be even less with a proper sail...

 

In more than 12 kts I am fine with only the jib and the main...

 

I am also thinking about a new jib as the original NS one seems to be too flat (or is it just me not knowing how to set it properly)...

 

@orca99

 

35 kts TWS??

 

I am scared to death in anything more than 20 kts (although the gusts usually go over 30 kts)...

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Question to owners: What do you think about the very short bowsprit of the Pulse 600? Has anyone already built an extention or a longer spriet? Until I do not race, one design doesn't matter to me. Where could I get a longer spriet?

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The sprit only needs to be as long as it needs to be. The sail-sprit combination should compliment each other. Adding a longer sprit for no reason other than to have a longer sprit can undermine this relationship.

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The sprit only needs to be as long as it needs to be. The sail-sprit combination should compliment each other. Adding a longer sprit for no reason other than to have a longer sprit can undermine this relationship.

So what you're saying is, contrary to common belief size does matter? :unsure:

 

^_^:D:lol:

 

-MH

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-_-Yes, unambiguosly too: size does matter! The more I can bring my gennaker in front of and out of the windshield of my mainsail, the more effective it will be. Look at the designs of ohter boats like mini 6.50. Their spriets are much longer and therefore they must also be much more effective. Don't you think so?

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-_-Yes, unambiguosly too: size does matter! The more I can bring my gennaker in front of and out of the windshield of my mainsail, the more effective it will be. Look at the designs of ohter boats like mini 6.50. Their spriets are much longer and therefore they must also be much more effective. Don't you think so?

 

 

But once you have gone far enough forward, what is the advantage of going any further? Are we assuming that the designers of the Pulse made a mistake and the sprit is too short to allow the headsail to property fill? I doubt this is the case.

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-_-Yes, unambiguosly too: size does matter! The more I can bring my gennaker in front of and out of the windshield of my mainsail, the more effective it will be. Look at the designs of ohter boats like mini 6.50. Their spriets are much longer and therefore they must also be much more effective. Don't you think so?

But as most beach cat sailors know, if you heat the boats up on the run first, the apparant wind moves so far foward that your spinny is never shielded by the main. The main reason why both beach cats and mini 6.5's have long poles is to lift the tack higher and upward to create an upward element of total lift, to prevent the bow going down and to encourage planing on the very rear of the boat.

 

I suspect Corsair went to a larger and more fuller spinny and main over there initial sails, was simply to allow less able sailors to go deeper downwind more safely than to be living on the edge of a fully powered up code 0 type spinny and main. Not a bad thing but if a long pole is needed then you are in slow mode.

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Any news on this boat?

 

Is it selling? How many in the US? Any on the mid-Atlantic region of the US?

 

Cheers,

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Very nice footage! 

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On 2/21/2017 at 0:38 AM, Waynemarlow said:

I suspect Corsair went to a larger and more fuller spinny and main over there initial sails, was simply to allow less able sailors to go deeper downwind more safely than to be living on the edge of a fully powered up code 0 type spinny and main. Not a bad thing but if a long pole is needed then you are in slow mode.

I'm not in agreement that a "fully powered up code 0 spinny" is faster downwind than a fuller spinny.  Depends a lot on the boat and how much apparent wind it will develop and what conditions you are sailing in.  The Pulse is only a slightly faster boat than my old F242 and my old F242 was faster to the leeward mark with a deeper spin design than with a flatter spin design in most windspeeds.  To look at extremes, AC45s can't use spins hardly ever since the wind is nearly always from in front...typical keelboats use symspins with HUGE camber (SMG 120% of foot) because that's better for ploughing through the water.  Looking at the nice video above, it appears the boats were using spins with a decent amount of camber ... smg 80-85% of foot at a guess. 

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On 21/02/2017 at 7:38 PM, Waynemarlow said:

I suspect Corsair went to a larger and more fuller spinny and main over there initial sails, was simply to allow less able sailors to go deeper downwind more safely than to be living on the edge of a fully powered up code 0 type spinny and main. Not a bad thing but if a long pole is needed then you are in slow mode.

Lol. Wayne you twat, you really do have no f'n idea. The larger fuller spinnaker is to get this bus downwind harder and faster with better VMG. 

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1 hour ago, OZCAT said:

Lol. Wayne you twat, you really do have no f'n idea. The larger fuller spinnaker is to get this bus downwind harder and faster with better VMG. 

Yes a larger spinny will get better VMG, but that is purely because of the sail area. If you compare apples to apples ( same area ) then the flatter spinny should be faster most of the time, after all beach cats dropped full bulgy spinnys way back in the previous century, just for that very reason.

Corsair also added a larger main early on as well, which sort of follows up on what I originally reported from my test sail some years back and confirmed by the numerous videos about, that the floats can take a lot more sail area and be still the safe little hot rod it was designed to be. Big bulgy spinnys running down wind don't fit into that hot rod philosophy, big bulgy spinnys though means that the average sailor can get the best out of the sail, so for Corsair its a balance between slower and more conservative against more speed with technical know how, Corsair played the safe route. 

But there's a downside. The big bug bear of having a large spinny, is that in handicap racing you take a real hit, I presume Corsair thinks they will only be playing in one design races, real life means that those that have been sold are spread across the world and come out to play in mainly mixed handicap racing with a pretty fast rating.

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We just want to see one racing in Oz, so the performance on rating can be revealed. 2 based at Rqys where the nationals are happening, hope one appears to keep the 3 diams honest.

Peter

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Wayne, a flat kite the same size as a fuller kite is not necessarily quicker. You have to look at the full package.  This is not a beach cat. It is a lot heavier and slower. It needs the grunt to get it downwind.

Also, a larger fuller kite requires harder work so I don't know what you were smoking when you made the 'less able' comment. Likewise with a larger main.

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1 minute ago, OZCAT said:

Wayne, a flat kite the same size as a fuller kite is not necessarily quicker. You have to look at the full package.  This is not a beach cat. It is a lot heavier and slower. It needs the grunt to get it downwind.

Also, a larger fuller kite requires harder work so I don't know what you were smoking when you made the 'less able' comment. Likewise with a larger main.

We agree, you have to look at the full package, yes it is slower than a beach cat, but on the water I was surprised how good it was in the puffs and with its large main and jib, wasn't much different than many an old school heavy beach cat. I was quite impressed with its turn of speed to be honest in the relatively light winds we were sailing in. 

I think if yes you have real old school mono style spinnys, yes they can be beasts to tame, but we are talking about much different spinnys here. Take for example my Hurricane spinny, its really quite a rounded high headed spinny, its a doddle to handle and one of my crews is just a wee lass and she handles it OK, it will set in about 20 - 30 degrees wind slot and pulls pretty well. On the same boat I some times use a late F18 spinny, same area, but much flatter in cut, almost a Screecher rather than a spinny, its faster by some way, sets only in about a 10 degree wind slot and unless you know how to heat it up, can be real pain to keep set, but I cannot use it with the lass as she simply hasn't got the strength to handle the sheet loads.

Not looked at the Diam up close but I think they are different beasts to the Pulse. Ones an almost all out racer looking to set up a European OD series, the others an American production boat for the wannabee masses looking at a small fun Tri.

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You are nuts if you thing a flat kite has more load than a full one. Have you ever sailed a skiff like a 49er or I14 that has a large full kite and travel downwind slower than a cat?  The loads are a lot higher.

And your comment that Corsair was catering for less able sailors by increasing the size of the kite and main as well as making them fuller is the craziest thing I have heard come out of anyone's mouth hear other then DL

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Anyone got any footage of the Pulse Fleet at the recent kings Cup in Phuket, im told they had their own division. Can anyone confirm what I have heard third hand,that the Thai boats have a modification, a post under the mast step to support the ring frame,? Whats going on there?

 

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1 hour ago, OZCAT said:

You are nuts if you thing a flat kite has more load than a full one. Have you ever sailed a skiff like a 49er or I14 that has a large full kite and travel downwind slower than a cat?  The loads are a lot higher.

 Yup you are correct sailing downwind slowly with a large spinny, the loads are high, what do you expect, under those circumstances its nothing more than a parachute dragging a weight through the water.

Sounds to me as though you are not used to heating up a spinny to get the apparent wind forward enough to sail fast. I guess that is something you haven't experienced to really understand how the loads build up.

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I have raced apparent wind boats from keel boats, large multis, skiffs and fast off the beach cats. I would put money on it what I have done would make you look like a novice. As apparent wind boats become quicker, sails are cut flatter. If you just throw a code zero on an apparent wind boat at the slower end of the range, don't expect it to be quick.

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22 hours ago, MultiThom said:

I'm not in agreement that a "fully powered up code 0 spinny" is faster downwind than a fuller spinny.  Depends a lot on the boat and how much apparent wind it will develop and what conditions you are sailing in.  The Pulse is only a slightly faster boat than my old F242 and my old F242 was faster to the leeward mark with a deeper spin design than with a flatter spin design in most windspeeds.  To look at extremes, AC45s can't use spins hardly ever since the wind is nearly always from in front...typical keelboats use symspins with HUGE camber (SMG 120% of foot) because that's better for ploughing through the water.  Looking at the nice video above, it appears the boats were using spins with a decent amount of camber ... smg 80-85% of foot at a guess. 

This gentleman seams to have a little big more experience in this field than you Wayne however I guess you are the SA multihull expert.

why don't you get off your keyboard and sail a few different type of boats before digging your hole further.

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15 hours ago, plywoodboy said:

We just want to see one racing in Oz, so the performance on rating can be revealed. 2 based at Rqys where the nationals are happening, hope one appears to keep the 3 diams honest.

Peter

PPPhhh.... even you don't believe that right?

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14 hours ago, OZCAT said:

You are nuts if you thing a flat kite has more load than a full one. Have you ever sailed a skiff like a 49er or I14 that has a large full kite and travel downwind slower than a cat?  The loads are a lot higher.

And your comment that Corsair was catering for less able sailors by increasing the size of the kite and main as well as making them fuller is the craziest thing I have heard come out of anyone's mouth hear other then DL

We did quite a few test kites for the 49ers back in the day with tighter luffs and flatter shapes... the loads were off the charts compared to the standard 9er kite.

Pretty logical given you are sailing tighter apparent angles

Similar when we mucked around with F18s but the differential was not as much... sheet load was already pretty high

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13 hours ago, OZCAT said:

I have raced apparent wind boats from keel boats, large multis, skiffs and fast off the beach cats. I would put money on it what I have done would make you look like a novice. As apparent wind boats become quicker, sails are cut flatter. If you just throw a code zero on an apparent wind boat at the slower end of the range, don't expect it to be quick.

Regardless of your experience, I don't get any feeling that you really understand that the Pulse is not your normal overweight production 25ft plus cabin for 5 on a trimaran platform. Its not, it is relatively light weight, has no meaningful cabin and is pretty minimalist in everything that a production small Tri has. Couple that with a set of big Amas and you have the potential of a pretty fast little boat. Apparent wind sailing is going to be its forte.

I looked at it, followed it whilst in design and first production and then took it for a test sail. Its a cool bit of kit and should do well, except they shoved a great big fat spinny up front which killed off the handicap rating here in Europe. Thats not a biggee as you can simply get your own design chute and get a different rating, but it intrigued my why Corsair did that and I could only presume it was to make things more easy for the average sailor ( thats your largest potential market, so aim your product at it ), I don't see anything wrong with that. I came very very close to putting a deposit down but cooled for the moment for both personal reasons and to just see where the 20ft Trimaran market is going to go.

Ozcat the minute you brag at how much experience you have, the more I think you are another SA computer wannabee, the good guys are the ones who say little and just chip in with nuggets of information, which the likes of myself can say, yeah OK I'll try that.

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Whilst a great little moderately performing Tri, it is still very heavy for a 20 footer compared with your 20 foot cats. It is nowhere near as quick as the high performance off the beach cats that run flatter kites. Like all smallish performance / cruising Tris it requires a kite that is deeper than a code zero to get it downwind with decent VMG.

We have played with different cut kites on 18's and found we lost depth and VMG with very flat kites and the skiff was a little more nosey. Sheeting loads were not noticeably different.

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11 minutes ago, OZCAT said:

Whilst a great little moderately performing Tri, it is still very heavy for a 20 footer compared with your 20 foot cats. It is nowhere near as quick as the high performance off the beach cats that run flatter kites. Like all smallish performance / cruising Tris it requires a kite that is deeper than a code zero to get it downwind with decent VMG.

We have played with different cut kites on 18's and found we lost depth and VMG with very flat kites and the skiff was a little more nosey. Sheeting loads were not noticeably different.

Ozcat, agree the Pulse is heavy in a production boat sort of way and I agree that it won't be able to run a Code 0 well ( where have I intimated that ) but also would like to point out that its RM will be so much higher than the beach cats, it should be able to handle fast flattish Screechers ( I label a flattish spinnaker that still just about conforms to the spinnaker rules as being a Screecher ) and a larger main  ( which Corsair promptly fitted when they first started testing ). I also agree that you can cut a spinny too flat ( just had a spinny recut as it was too flat ) and  that often in lighter airs a flat sail is the last thing you need.

Come on we agree on almost everything, but you stick your computer head on and don't look outside your blinkered screen view and go " the craziest thing I have heard come out of anyone's mouth hear other then DL " all I can say is its best to compute properly before opening ones gob.

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4 hours ago, Waynemarlow said:

I also agree that you can cut a spinny too flat ( just had a spinny recut as it was too flat ) and  that often in lighter airs a flat sail is the last thing you need.

Come on we agree on almost everything, but you stick your computer head on and don't look outside your blinkered screen view and go " the craziest thing I have heard come out of anyone's mouth hear other then DL " all I can say is its best to compute properly before opening ones gob.

I'm curious what your sailmaker did to "recut" a too flat spinnaker.  Since I've made a bunch of spinnakers, my only option would have been to remake the top gores (or remake the entire thing--it'd probably be easiest to remake the entire thing).  I guess if your spinnaker was made crosscut instead of tri radial, then additional fabric could have been added at the luff...but I am curious.

Also, it is more useful to folks (sailmakers especially) if you refer to what AWA you will want to be using the sail, whether or not you want it to furl or snuff; if you already have the sail, then its most useful to describe the SMG (spinnaker mid girth or just mid girth) measure as a percent of foot length; and what fabric it is made with (white sail/nylon/heavy nylon/mylar).  That gives us a pretty good way to estimate what you are talking about.

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Recut, you can't add depth to cloth you don't have, nah consigned it to the experimental bin where I took some of the head fullness out and put the whole lot on a furling torque rope to see if we can get a flattish spiny to furl properly, first attempt not great but good experiment to see if it can be done easily.

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3 hours ago, Waynemarlow said:

Recut, you can't add depth to cloth you don't have, nah consigned it to the experimental bin where I took some of the head fullness out and put the whole lot on a furling torque rope to see if we can get a flattish spiny to furl properly, first attempt not great but good experiment to see if it can be done easily.

OK, you misspoke...happens to everyone.  Made me curious since I didn't think I could recut a spinnaker to make it less flat so I was wondering what miracles other sailmakers were able to achieve.  Good to know I haven't missed the sailmaker journal memo...

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On 9/8/2017 at 8:20 AM, Waynemarlow said:

Ozcat, agree the Pulse is heavy in a production boat sort of way and I agree that it won't be able to run a Code 0 well ( where have I intimated that ) but also would like to point out that its RM will be so much higher than the beach cats, it should be able to handle fast flattish Screechers ( I label a flattish spinnaker that still just about conforms to the spinnaker rules as being a Screecher ) and a larger main  ( which Corsair promptly fitted when they first started testing ). I also agree that you can cut a spinny too flat ( just had a spinny recut as it was too flat ) and  that often in lighter airs a flat sail is the last thing you need.

Come on we agree on almost everything, but you stick your computer head on and don't look outside your blinkered screen view and go " the craziest thing I have heard come out of anyone's mouth hear other then DL " all I can say is its best to compute properly before opening ones gob.

A trap or 2 adds a lot of RM.

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Talking of traps.  It would be a hoot to sail the Pulse with 2 good friends all of us on 3 trapezes. :D

Good RM and a lot of fun. 

Cheers, 

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48 minutes ago, vaplaya said:

Talking of traps.  It would be a hoot to sail the Pulse with 2 good friends all of us on 3 trapezes. :D

Good RM and a lot of fun. 

Cheers, 

The boat is already 15 ft wide with huge amas...how much more righting moment do you need?  Also, 3 people trapezed out would put a huge load on the mast--if the mast doesn't break, then at a minimum you are bending it so you are ruining the flow over the sailplan.  "Most" folks who buy tri's over cats don't like to trap since they like the built in stability.  I'm certainly one of them.

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Hi Thom,

I understand and agree. 

However, I love trapping out and I think it would be a lot of fun to triple trapeze. 

Ok!!  Just one trapeze. That way I could my fix once in a while if I ever go for a bigger boat. :D

Cheers,

 

 

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We just had word that THREE Pulse 600's are going to join us for the Aussie Multihull Nationals coming up next week! Fantastic.

Details on the other forum thread.

 

Peter H

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15 hours ago, patzefran said:

Multi Thom, I agree, don't need trapeze on an olready beamy Tri. My Strike 20 is 16 ft wide and I collapsed my Tornado mast under compression loads.I needed to add backstays to manage them.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rt2vhoeaooyzkt8/Strike20 to windward.mp4?dl=0

Very nice video.  That points out the biggest beauty of a tri over a cat...just how stable it is when it is in the groove.  Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed my Hobie Getaway but it convinced me that I'm a tri guy.

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On 9/24/2017 at 0:36 AM, patzefran said:

Multi Thom, I agree, don't need trapeze on an olready beamy Tri. My Strike 20 is 16 ft wide and I collapsed my Tornado mast under compression loads.I needed to add backstays to manage them.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rt2vhoeaooyzkt8/Strike20 to windward.mp4?dl=0

I've read a lot about foiling, but didn't realize any boats could foil 20+ meters over the water.  B)

Nice job with your Strike!  Please let us know if you encounter a Pulse 600 on the water.

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Noone posted anything for quite a long time here, but anyway...

I am a Pulse 600 owner and a use something, what could be called a Code 0 or maybe even better a J0.

It has something like 20 m2 and a 10-12% camber.

I use this sail for low wind conditions up to app. 12-15 kts TWS.

I sail on a smalish lake, so I try to keep the TWA at 90°. AWA is usually as low as the sail allows being hauled in all the way.

The pressure on the sheets is so high I cannot pull them while fully powered.

With this sail I am probably 50% faster than with jib/main combo in winds under 8 kts. Up to app. 12 kts it is fun, above to much work with de-powering, which means only drag.

The Pulse will get quite easilly to the speed of wind (i.e. 10 KTS TWS, 10 kts boat speed) in reaching conditions but at least for me it is quite hard to get it going faster. I usually sail single handed so no extreme downwind sailing with the chute...

This sail DOES NOT PERFORM as a downwind VMG sail, since Pulse cannot pull the appearant wind far enough forward in downwind conditions for this type of sail. For these the original chute is way better, as the AWA stays somewhere between 80-110° range sailing pretty deep downwind.

BTW, on our lake there are lots of beach cats... from old ones to the newest ones... and I can match the speeds of all of them singlehanded. Only A-Class cats are faster when foiling...

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22 hours ago, silvestert said:

Noone posted anything for quite a long time here, but anyway...

I am a Pulse 600 owner and a use something, what could be called a Code 0 or maybe even better a J0.

It has something like 20 m2 and a 10-12% camber.

I use this sail for low wind conditions up to app. 12-15 kts TWS.

I sail on a smalish lake, so I try to keep the TWA at 90°. AWA is usually as low as the sail allows being hauled in all the way.

The pressure on the sheets is so high I cannot pull them while fully powered.

With this sail I am probably 50% faster than with jib/main combo in winds under 8 kts. Up to app. 12 kts it is fun, above to much work with de-powering, which means only drag.

The Pulse will get quite easilly to the speed of wind (i.e. 10 KTS TWS, 10 kts boat speed) in reaching conditions but at least for me it is quite hard to get it going faster. I usually sail single handed so no extreme downwind sailing with the chute...

This sail DOES NOT PERFORM as a downwind VMG sail, since Pulse cannot pull the appearant wind far enough forward in downwind conditions for this type of sail. For these the original chute is way better, as the AWA stays somewhere between 80-110° range sailing pretty deep downwind.

BTW, on our lake there are lots of beach cats... from old ones to the newest ones... and I can match the speeds of all of them singlehanded. Only A-Class cats are faster when foiling...

The pressure on the genaker-sheets for single-handed sailing is a little bit to high, I agree with you. Therefore and because sheets should be operated by hand and out of the helms best position (wich is outside on the amas and aft)  next spring I will install a winch on my Pulse. I think one winch on backborad near the existing (but useless) rope clamp would be enough for both sheets and could also be used to tighten the genaker-halyard.

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3 hours ago, fastsailor600 said:

The pressure on the genaker-sheets for single-handed sailing is a little bit to high, I agree with you. Therefore and because sheets should be operated by hand and out of the helms best position (wich is outside on the amas and aft)  next spring I will install a winch on my Pulse. I think one winch on backborad near the existing (but useless) rope clamp would be enough for both sheets and could also be used to tighten the genaker-halyard.

There is no doubt that winches are fine machines for applying tension.  Weight and maintenance, though, are real downsides to them (plus you always are looking for the darn handle).  Before making permanent changes to the boat, I think I would purchase a lot of line and try a 2+:1 at the clew or add one or two more ratchet blocks. 

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On 11/20/2017 at 5:43 AM, silvestert said:

Noone posted anything for quite a long time here, but anyway...

I am a Pulse 600 owner and a use something, what could be called a Code 0 or maybe even better a J0.

It has something like 20 m2 and a 10-12% camber.

I use this sail for low wind conditions up to app. 12-15 kts TWS

The pressure on the sheets is so high I cannot pull them while fully powered.

With this sail I am probably 50% faster than with jib/main combo in winds under 8 kts. Up to app. 12 kts it is fun, above to much work with de-powering, which means only drag.

 

I usually make a nylon windseeker for use in winds under 8.  It is cheaper to make, lasts forever and you can really tell easily when it isn't useful any longer (stretches too far out of shape to allow heading into the wind).  I make it high clew and about 12% camber placed 35 % forward.  Basically a free flying nylon jib.  You do have to put a line in the luff so you can tension it adequately.  On the F242 I flew it on the bowsprit behind the spin tack and used the screacher halyard.  It was nice having two sprit sails since a lot of races started with very light wind that built.  That sail was also very useful in very big wind for going downwind--it wasn't big enough to cause a pitchpole.

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I singlehand my Ostac Tramp(20ft) it runs a fairly full masthead assymetric,its rated area is 38.8 sqm, gets quite hard to hold in excess of 20kts, I use an 75 mm ronstan auto ratchet, then bring it diagonally across the cockpit to the windward cabin top winch(a small 1:1 harken), just take 1 turn to snub it,sort of double ratchet I guess. actually steer and sheet from back corner of the wing net on the windward float, I cant tell you where the winch handle is,i haven't got a spare hand to use it, winches used as actual winches are fairly useless  when you are holding the tiller ,mainsheet in one hand and sheeting kite with the other. long down wind legs can result in swapping hands, (cross steering)to give the kite sheeting hand a break.

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That's nearly how the SeaRail is set up.  But instead of the cabintop winch, there is another 75 mm ratchet block on either side of the cockpit.  So each sheet goes through 2 ratchet blocks.  Then there is a camcleat in the cockpit just below that second block.  The idea is to tension and cleat, then go steer instead of hold.  Haven't had enough wind to find out if it is a good system yet, or not.  I've noted in Phil's video's that he routed sheets inside the shrouds and sheeted initially about mid-beam aft...so far at least, I'm set up to sheet outside the shrouds and aft outboard.  I'm not sure if that 2 feet will make much difference. 

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At the beginning I was also thinking about some kind of winch, but this only ads weight and maintenance.

The standard gennaker can be held quite easily with the ratchet block sailing downwind.

For my J0 I am using set and forget technique. When tacking I just sheet in as far as I need to for the desired course and cleat the sheet and only then I sheet in the mainsail.

Since I have only two hands one is holding the tiller the other the main sheet. There are huge puffs where I sail, so I am used to holding the sheet all the time for instant de-powering.

As for the tensioning of the halyard I use 2:1 + all my weight ;) More tension could be useful, but I am afraid of braking something...

As an alternative to winch I was thinking about a similar system to Karver's Winchless... but again this ads a lot of (expensive) equipment.

P.S.

I route all sheets inside the shrouds.

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Winches these days have little to no maintenance... A fresh water hose on the day and grease once a year 15-30 minutes  max

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The Pulse 600 ticks so many boxes for me but am concerned that they really haven't taken off in Australia and no results to date on how they perform in mixed fleet racing. What is holding them back, are all the regular racers more inclined to the Sprint, F24's etc that the Pulse doesn't have an audience? Interested in your thoughts.

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5 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

The Pulse 600 ticks so many boxes for me but am concerned that they really haven't taken off in Australia and no results to date on how they perform in mixed fleet racing. What is holding them back, are all the regular racers more inclined to the Sprint, F24's etc that the Pulse doesn't have an audience? Interested in your thoughts.

Size does matter-especially in choppy conditions.  I expect the Pulse is attractive to folks who lake sail or protected inshore locations.  I haven't sailed my SeaRail 19 too much yet, but going over one motorboat wake was enough to tell me that I'm going to have difficulty in chop.

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Maybe and maybe not. Depending on the hull design you may have hobbyhorsing in chop and then with a little more speed you may feel next to nothing. The Astus 16.5 will ride up and over chop, like most boats, if it's only traveling a few knots. Buy the time you hit the high single digits and certainly once you're into any double digits, it just cuts through the chop like it's not even there. If you closed your eyes you'd never feel it. It depends on the hull design and how fast you're traveling.

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Wet & Wild and Plywood Boy got any opinions, would like to hear what the Aussies think? Might turn up at a regatta with one!

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2 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

Wet & Wild and Plywood Boy got any opinions, would like to hear what the Aussies think? Might turn up at a regatta with one!

Well I’m none the wiser. The marketing effort has been virtually nil. None were presented at the 2016 Multihull Nats at Wangi and despite 3 being on site at the 2017 Nats at RQ, none entered. They also haven’t been seen at any of our local regattas. One came out with the fleet in one heat of the last Nats but it didn’t seem to be up to F22 or Sprint speed. 

The lack of exposure is a shame really because a lot of people might consider one if they knew how it goes. 

I personally would have when I decided to move on from my Sprint but there was no performance data to consider. Now I have an F22 and it’s game over!

not wishing to explain marketing 101 to the distributors but OMR measuring a boat and entering a few regattas with a couple of decent Tri sailors on board would go a long way. 

Could be a good boat but who knows. 

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1 hour ago, WetnWild said:

Well I’m none the wiser. The marketing effort has been virtually nil. None were presented at the 2016 Multihull Nats at Wangi and despite 3 being on site at the 2017 Nats at RQ, none entered. They also haven’t been seen at any of our local regattas. One came out with the fleet in one heat of the last Nats but it didn’t seem to be up to F22 or Sprint speed. 

The lack of exposure is a shame really because a lot of people might consider one if they knew how it goes. 

I personally would have when I decided to move on from my Sprint but there was no performance data to consider. Now I have an F22 and it’s game over!

not wishing to explain marketing 101 to the distributors but OMR measuring a boat and entering a few regattas with a couple of decent Tri sailors on board would go a long way. 

Could be a good boat but who knows. 

  +1  What W&W said.

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I raced against two of them in the US Corsair Nationals last year. Upwind they seem to plane at around 12kts and sail faster although lower than my F-27F for a slightly higher VMG. I think in higher winds their relative performance would continue to improve. In less than 12kts the F-27s waterline seems to take over and we were faster.

Downwind is a similar story, they tend to sail higher and faster and the F-27 lower and slower. The biggest difference being that the F-27 can plane so the Pulse doesn't have so much of an advantage in higher winds.

In 7 races I think we beat them over the line about 3 times and were always within a couple of minutes of each other, trading places back and forth several times a race. All of the racing was in smooth water, I assume the F-27 would gain dramatically in chop.

The most important thing however is that they really looked like they were having fun.

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Its sad that Corsair isn't promoting them the way they should. If we have learned one thing from J-boats it  is that the boat is only a part of the puzzle, promotion and getting a critical mass to get OD racing is probably just as important.

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22 hours ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Maybe and maybe not. Depending on the hull design you may have hobbyhorsing in chop and then with a little more speed you may feel next to nothing. The Astus 16.5 will ride up and over chop, like most boats, if it's only traveling a few knots. Buy the time you hit the high single digits and certainly once you're into any double digits, it just cuts through the chop like it's not even there. If you closed your eyes you'd never feel it. It depends on the hull design and how fast you're traveling.

BS.  You sail on a lake with limited fetch.  You don't know what chop is.

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I sail on a lot of different lakes and ocean sounds. I commonly sail in 4 to 5 feet of chop. You just need to get your boat up to speed to see what it feels like when it reaches its sweet spot.

 

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1 hour ago, Tom Kirkman said:

I sail on a lot of different lakes and ocean sounds. I commonly sail in 4 to 5 feet of chop. You just need to get your boat up to speed to see what it feels like when it reaches its sweet spot.

 

:o  You just proved my point

 

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Every boat has its limits, but chop is generally more trouble when you’re going slow than when you’re up to speed. You’re sitting on a racehorse and just walking it around the track. Find some wind, drop your friggin’ beer, get your ass out past the rail and lean on the goddamn thing. The SeaRail will go if you’ll just push it.

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Hi Guys

I'm don't know how many Corsair expected to sell, but I doubt it was ever going to sell in huge numbers.  In Australia it suffers the same fate as most new trailer sailors, i.e. it’s a small market anyway and there are always a number of good second hand alternatives. There are plenty of good boats on the market that don’t sell in large numbers. 

Regarding performance in chop, whilst it looks quite flat in our videos from Geographe Bay Race Week, it was actually quite lumpy & gusting up to 20 knots by the end.  In the final race the longer monos pulled away in the final upwind leg (we were over crewed & heavily loaded), but we kept pace over the whole last leg, around 2 nautical miles, with a Flying Tiger (http://flyingtigerboats.com/), sailing lower but with near identical VMG.

We’ll be selling ours soon unfortunately due to my wife’s dodgy neck. Such is Life.

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Thanks for the responses guys, still keen but don't want to buy an orphan that will be hard to sell in the future. The Sprint is an option but need to watch what my tow vehicle can handle. For mostly 1 up sailing the Pulse is the first choice. Will do some more research.

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On 1/5/2018 at 5:10 AM, Crazy Horse said:

The Pulse 600 ticks so many boxes for me but am concerned that they really haven't taken off in Australia and no results to date on how they perform in mixed fleet racing. What is holding them back, are all the regular racers more inclined to the Sprint, F24's etc that the Pulse doesn't have an audience? Interested in your thoughts.

Same with me.  I followed the Pulse development from the beginning.  It also ticks all boxes for me. It would get my adrenaline going, easy to single handle, and family friendly.  It was the price that killed it for me. Way to much money for what you get. 

So, I am sticking to my Weta for now.  Maybe if a used market develops. 

Cheers,

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the price difference from Pulse to Diam 24 makes the Pulse look expensive, I guess thats is slowing sales a bit?

3 share a Diam or 2 share a Pulse, Hmmmm

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I had no idea the Diam was so cheap, 50k sailaway (as quoted in a sail magazine article I found is very good.) Compared to a J70 that is a whole lot of fun/$

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On 1/6/2018 at 10:01 AM, Mizzmo said:

Its sad that Corsair isn't promoting them the way they should. If we have learned one thing from J-boats it  is that the boat is only a part of the puzzle, promotion and getting a critical mass to get OD racing is probably just as important.

Plus one million!!

22 minutes ago, Mizzmo said:

I had no idea the Diam was so cheap, 50k sailaway (as quoted in a sail magazine article I found is very good.) Compared to a J70 that is a whole lot of fun/$

$50K sail away is cheap!??!??  Damn; I am old!

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Wess, 

Ahhh!!!! that may explain it.  I am getting old too. 

Cheers, 

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They are a bit more than that, I think closer to $60k, maybe more, with dolly and full sail suite. Still good value next to a J/70 IMO. Lets also keep in mind that the top range beach cat now, the Flying Phantom Ultimate, starts at $50k USD (42k euros). The ex-Groupama Diam 24 is offered for sale for $42k USD (35k euros), I would go for that over a new boat honestly given the attention it has had during its life (full race tune, rigging better than stock etc.): https://www.diam24onedesign.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Diam-24-od-PL-23-FR-ENG.pdf

The sailors at my club that had a chance to sail the boat expressed it was like sailing a high performance beachcat. That might be too much for some (many).

I had lots of chats with the Diam guys who were trying to understand the U.S market. My big point to them was where would you keep it? . There is a healthy J/70 fleet in Annapolis for example, but one Diam 24 takes up the parking space of 2, probably 3 J/70's. Less of an issue in France especially where they understand multis and the space they take. Diam's don't fold down or make trailer sailing easy-its a dismount boat, fine for a semi-pro or pro program, but far from ideal for the weekend warrior. The Pulse 600 folds up neatly for towing and offers a small cuddy cabin. I think its a lot of value for the money, especially given a new N17 Mk. 2 also costs $36k. It would probably be a fun ride to Alaska....

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12 minutes ago, samc99us said:

 It would probably be a fun ride to Alaska....

Hey wait a minute now. Do I know you?  KBC or KD talk you into that little dig?  Don't be starting that sh*t, LOL!  I need some comfort at my age!!  And shelter.

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No but I do know KBC...announcement of a Worrell for 2019 may take precedence over an R2AK on my end.

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1 hour ago, samc99us said:

Diam's don't fold down or make trailer sailing easy-its a dismount boat, fine for a semi-pro or pro program, but far from ideal for the weekend warrior. The Pulse 600 folds up neatly for towing and offers a small cuddy cabin. I think its a lot of value for the money, especially given a new N17 Mk. 2 also costs $36k. It would probably be a fun ride to Alaska....

Exactly my reasons for choosing the SeaRail 19 which offers better performance than a Pulse 600 (at least by the numbers) and is less expensive than the Pulse 600 by 10K$US and still offers a small cuddy cabin and folds up neatly for towing.  They only make 5 a year, though; my boat is hull #12 (took delivery 4 months ago) and they started making them in 2014 (mine is the first to fold)...so, hard to come bye.  If you live in SF Bay area, I'm willing to take folks out for a ride once it gets warmer--yah, I'm already old, not just getting there. 

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