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GC Sailor

Corsair Pulse 600

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I think most people need to raise their expectations on how much multihulls cost and not what they would like to pay, just saying.

Evil

Second hand is the only way to go. A second hand sprint recently sold for way less than the cost of this new 6M.

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That's true Nuddy, however to state the obvious it does kinda rely on some new boat sales in the first place !

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Is that an old MKI , or the one that flippped a year or so ago and re built ??

An old Mk 1

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The Pulse looks like the kind of boat I've been after for a while. I'm selling the Weta and the Sports Boat & the first Pulse out of the mould should be here .... June.... <_<

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The Pulse looks like the kind of boat I've been after for a while. I'm selling the Weta and the Sports Boat & the first Pulse out of the mould should be here .... June.... <_<

Joined 2 days ago. 1 post & your pimping the pulse ....

 

What country are you in? I'd love a pulse but at what looks like 45k AUD there are better buys.

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The Pulse looks like the kind of boat I've been after for a while. I'm selling the Weta and the Sports Boat & the first Pulse out of the mould should be here .... June.... <_<

Joined 2 days ago. 1 post & your pimping the pulse ....

 

What country are you in? I'd love a pulse but at what looks like 45k AUD there are better buys.

 

*******************

 

Yes that is a strange first post.. would someone give him the welcome?

He shows location Perth

Red Cordial, why don´t you explain a little bit your motives to sell and buy, and while we are at it, the prices you expect and got quoted and what Corsair said about guarantees, delivery time etc about your first-out-of-the-mold boat? you must have arranged some special conditions for this...

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This makes me wonder what Corsair's marketing strategy is. There would seem to be a lot of overlap between the Pulse 600 and the 4' longer Sprint 750. While it was hoped the Sprint would take off as a OD class, at best it is in small numbers when it happens (6 boats at last weekend's Buzzelli event in Sarasota). If the Pulse 600 takes off as a OD class, where does that leave current Sprint owners and will sales of the Sprint plummet? Maybe a bit frustrated but there is always PHRF which a lot of 28R's race with other Corsairs. In terms of sailing performance and value, a used Sprint Mk I in good condition is an excellent buy. The performance of the boat is virtually identical to the Mk II and the boats are very solidly built. We have both a Weta and a Sprint Mk I and love them both.

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....

he great news is that we now have:

4 Boats confirmed to head to the US

4 Boats confirmed to head to Europe

2 Boats heading to Australia

1 Boat to the UK

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Nice update. I understand the ring frame now.

 

Tempting. I've been considering a used MkI Sprint but this may be a game changer. I wonder where the four boats coming here are heading. Anyone here?

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Nice update. I understand the ring frame now.

 

Tempting. I've been considering a used MkI Sprint but this may be a game changer. I wonder where the four boats coming here are heading. Anyone here?

I suspect 1 to each of the dealers...

 

-Gleason

-Wigston

-Marsh

-Helms

 

-MH

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No doubt I am taking a test ride when they get here. I'm thinking of spending a couple months each year in Sarasota and this would be a boat I could easily bring to RI and down to FL and handle all the rigging, trailering, etc. myself.

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Got one. Fun boat. Sucks with two up in lighter air, though. Need a bigger boat.

 

So, Team Corsair, tells about the boat. Carbon mast and prod? Aluminum? The website is a bit deficient in details.

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I think most people need to raise their expectations on how much multihulls cost and not what they would like to pay, just saying.

Evil

Obviously these people are thinking in 1990 $ or something... 3 hulls, 2 folding crossbeams, mast rig and 3 sails cannot be had for $30K (Aus or US) all up delivered to your dealer. Check the prices of shitty Lightnings and Flying Scots. The fact that these guys can get the boat out for less $$ than a J70 is pretty good. As far as i can tell this is similar money to an open SB like a Shaw or Viper so it is not a bad price.

 

The advantage of this over a beachcat is that your guests can sit in the cockpit dry relative to lying on a cat getting wet. At 6m it should be capable of some reasonable distance sailing as long as you don't need an inside shitter. A Sprint can do Cat 3 (?) but I would doubt this could. Raiding/camp cruising on boats of this size is popular in France etc and this boat is in the size range of similar boats.

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So, Team Corsair, tell us about the boat. Carbon mast and prod? Aluminum? The website is a bit deficient in details.

 

I meant carbon boom, not prod. Or aluminum? Details, please.

 

 

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Anyone else have any doubts that this is going to weigh only 816lbs? Not trying to be negative, just realistic. An F18 weighs about 400 lbs, correct? Nacra 20 weighs 420+. I know those boats are somewhat "overbuilt" though. A sprint weighs about 1800lbs per the corsair website.

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This boat is roughly the same length as the Nacra 20, but has one additional hull and additional beam. Increase the weight of the Nacra by 1/3, gets you to 560, so 816 sounds reasonable to me.

 

The real question for me is how fast will this boat be compared to the Multi 23, Sprint 750, and other similarly sized tris. My guess is that it will be significantly slower than the 20 ft. cats, but this is a different market. Although slower than the cats, it should also be much more comfortable and probably dryer than those boats, plus no trapeze. I think I can stomach the price if the speed is close to the 750. It has a shorter water line, but a higher sail area to weight, I think a less beamy main hull, and relatively more buoyant amas, which should enable it to power up a bit better than the 750. The spinnaker looks small, so I also wonder about downwind speed. I guess we won't really know until the boat hits the water and starts racing.

 

Thoughts??

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Just wondering how many owners of larger tris might want to TRADE DOWN to get less of everything ( cost, maint., dockage/storage etc )? Maybe LESS really is MORE.

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Been away from things watery for some time have been talked into returning to horsey related things (namely Eventing which is kind of a horsey triathalon with dressage, show jumping and cross country riding over objects, through hazards like water and general weird stuff like that). Broke a few bones after a refusal (horse didn't want to jump over some stacked logs landing in a small pool of water) so I flew and the horse stayed behind. So ... back to sailing.

 

The 600 looks perfect for my requirements for something a bit larger than a Weta but not a large as say a 750 Sprint. I looked into the Searail but something didn't click as I really didn't want an orphan boat of that size and price.

 

I might be the Lone Ranger in thinking the 600 will make but at least the Corsair name is known so "orphaning" wouldn't be a severe should it not take off.

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So, it looks like a cool boat. I like it. But as somebody who would seem to fit a lot of the proposed business cases, I'll offer up some thoughts...

 

So, I'm a 52 year old beach cat sailor. I have two younger kids. From all the talk, I should be ready to give up trapezing and wanting something to give me that beach cat experience and save my aching bones from the horrors of the trap and the shear terror of constant pitch poling.

 

Bullocks.

 

The only people that seem to promote avoiding the trapeze as a benefit are those that have not spent time on the wire IMO. And the pitchpoling thing, well that's just funny.

 

I also hang out with some beach cat sailors, not all of us young, and I posed the question to them. Nobody seemed to be eager to find the cure for their tired bones from beach cats. Certainly not anything that was slower and more complex. And the trapeze is something that would be missed. And nobody was really upset about pitchpoling. So while there are probably some out there that fit the profile, I haven't met one personally.

 

So, full disclosure - I own a NACRA 20 and a Corsair F-27. I find the trap on the 20 to be the most comfortable and exiting place to sail from. My body aches more from sailing the 27 (what with all the hard surfaces and climbing in and out of the cockpit etc). I sometimes daydream about adding trapezes to it. I don't think I'd trade the 20 for a similar sized tri for any of the reasons cited. And while I think the Weta is a cool boat, and would consider having one, I wouldn't give up the 20 for one of those either. I have, however, occasionally had the thought of trading down from the 27 like Not Growing Up mentioned. But I think I'd trade down to something like a Sprint. Going down further from that, well, I'll just keep the Nacra, thanks.

 

So my take on the market for the boat - Weta sailors who want to move up, and bigger boat sailors who want to move down but don't already have a beach cat. Or folks who are multi curious and are scared of the trap (because they've never done it - it's ok, I was that way once).

 

The Holy Grail of course would be establishing a big OD Fleet. But at least in our area, the people that are so inclined are head over heels for things like the J-70. I don't see that crowd ever embracing the multis, and I'm not sure there's enough multi sailors to build a big fleet. Converts in the right numbers are hard to come by IMO. For the supposed beach cat folks that are hoping to escape the horrible trapeze, well they're pretty happy with A-Cats and F-18s.

 

And if price is your biggest motivator, buy a used boat. I think the best bang for the buck for multihulls right now are Nacra-20s and F-27s (not really saying that just because I happen to own one of each...). Maybe not if you really want OD. But hey, we had six F-27s at the Baltimore Harbor Cup last Fall, that's pretty close... If you really want established OD multi racing go A-Cat or F-18. Unless that trap thing has you sceered.

 

But anyway, the boat looks cool and I hope they sell a bunch.

 

Here's a gratuitous F-27 vid, heading home after the Francis Scott Key Classic:

 

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Nice post.

yes the conversion is difficult. I took a mono friend out in my weta a couple times. Showed him all the possibilities, singlehanding, with kids, etc. It was the fastest he ever went in a sailboat. Light helm. Acceleration. Etc. He loved it and his kids too.

Not for a second he would consider going to multis! Its as if I had just took him for a spin in an airplane.

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Another market....... Someone who has a HP trapeze cat and wants a small Tri to take their young family out for day sails or weekends away.

 

Owning a HP cat can be a greedy hobby when you have to leave your family on shore whilst you go out and have fun. Would be great to have another toy to get out on the water, including them in the experience.

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Hey kbcH20 (how on earth did you come up w that anyway... H20?),

 

First off Happy New Year. As important, I hope all is well w all the parent stuff. Give me a ring when you have some time and lets catch up. Oh, and you didn't much on the F27 winter sail. Breeze everywhere but the Magothy.

 

I gotta say I see the Pulse 600 differently. Kinda excited. I see it as the best shot for success in the tri segement.

 

Think about the buckets of types of sailing:

 

Short-handed daysailing

Family daysailing

Cruising

Rating racing

OD racing

 

To me the beach cat is only good for short-handed daysailing (could be for racing too but no critical mass). The tri adds family daysailing.

 

The Pulse 600 is the first "name brand" tri that strips it down to basics for what tris do well. Understand I am a Corsair and Farrier fan, right. But come on; $200K for a Cruze targetted at cruising?? No way; not at half the price. There are many many better boats for far less money. The F22; a $100K ideal designed daysailor if it ever actually gets produced in numbers?? No way. With the Pulse 600 we finally see an affordably priced, accessable, name brand trimaran stripped down to the basic function, daysailing.

 

Now if Corsair would do the right things and fully support it for the long term for racing I think it could be huge. It seems to me they were almost there with the F28 but didn't stick with it and let it crash and burn. The 28s had regular OD fleets up and down the east coast, gone come to KWRW a few times and the same folks in town that have always done the OD monohull things (Melges, J105, now J70 folks) were talking about bringing a few 28s to town and starting a fleet. Alas the guy that headed the 28 fleet went cruising (not in a tri, LOL) and the 28 fell away. I would love to see the Corsair guys actually do what it takes to build and support OD Pulse 600 fleets.

 

The price is right too. Even compared to the used F27 market which we both know well. Remember its not just buying the used boat; its getting it back into shape. The F27s tend to sell in the upper 30s or low 40s... but to bring it up to snuff and keep it there? I hate to put this in print but I easily have over $65 in Lola. You can get a Pulse for way, way less than that and be good to go day 1.

 

I think they have a good chance with this boat. Affordable. Accessable. Most interesting tri or breach cat I have seen for a while.

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Nice post.

yes the conversion is difficult. I took a mono friend out in my weta a couple times. Showed him all the possibilities, singlehanding, with kids, etc. It was the fastest he ever went in a sailboat. Light helm. Acceleration. Etc. He loved it and his kids too.

Not for a second he would consider going to multis! Its as if I had just took him for a spin in an airplane.

 

Almost the opposite for me. Of the half dozen people I have taken out in the Weta (all mono-hull sailors, none of who had ever been on a multihull), one bought a Weta, another bought an H16, another bought a Prindle of some description and the other 3 went back to their monohulls, but all had one hell of a time going 16 to 17 MPH on a little 14 foot boat.

 

The Pulse 600 interests me as a logical step between a small racing dingy like the Weta and a larger boat like the M23 or similar. I look forward to actually seeing one and what it can do. My only concern is how it will feel - what is the sensation of speed going to be? A 20 footer that can do 25 mph (?) isn't likely to "feel" as fast as a 14 footer than can do 19 mph.

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Hi all,

 

Ok. Please note that this is my first post. The Pulse 600 got me writing.

 

I actually agree with all of you for the most part.

 

I am sailing a BeachCat and a Weta these days and I love both boats for similar and different reasons. I kept the BeachCat because, like kbcH20, I am addicted to the trapeze. As much as I love the Weta I really need my trapeze fix often. It is also easier on my joints

 

The issue with the BeachCat and the Weta is that you kind of have to stay close to home. I have gone for long sails on both boats and I have gotten stuck with dead wind (for hours) and I have had to change plans due to very high winds. No motor means that you have to rely on luck, just luck as the wind forecast is a giaenormous joke.

 

Ok!!! So here is what I dream. A boat with the speed and thrills of the BeachCat and Weta, big enough to take my family in a distance, picnic day sail, with an beefy outboard to push it to 9-11 knots (if the wind dies), very safe, and that I can add (even retrofit) at least one trapeze. Ok my actual dream is to have 3 trapezes to sail with 2 good friends of mine while pushing the boat hard. All these, requiring little maintenance and at an affordable price.

 

Is the Pulse 600 this boat?!?!? It may be. I am exited!! I will try to demo one sometime this year if I can. I will then decide (if I can afford it and my wife allows me :-) to sell my boats to get this one.

 

I hope and think that there may be several out there with a similar dream than mine :-).

 

Cheers, vaplaya

 

P.S. Tom: I think that 20knots on that 20' boat would be awesome.

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Having a HP beach cat is only greedy if you don't take your family members out for sails. There's nothing inherent in an HP beachcat that says you can't. A N-20 is perfectly capable of taking a daysail with the family (talking two adults and two kids). Lots of scenarios fit that boat with potential family fun. Pull the boat up to the beach and take folks for rides... But in reality the family doesn't always want to go. I also single hand the 20 and the 27.

 

Wess - KBCH20 - my initials, and at the time I joined this place I had a Hobie-20 for my beach cat. At that time I also had a keelboat...

 

short-handed daysailing

Family daysailing

Cruising

Rating racing

OD racing

 

I'm sorry, but you can do those things on a BC. Critical mass for racing is where you find it, not like the Golden Days but it's there. Obviously the size of the family and what folks really want for cruising determines all in any small boat for that purpose. Cruising on a small boat like that is taking some gear and a backpack tent and pulling up on the beach somewhere. Pretty much what you'd be able to do with the 600. It might have a bit more family carrying capacity, but you're not going to load it up with too many folk. Thanks to the Down The Bay Race I've only recently sailed my 27 to the same distance in one trip that I've sailed the 20.

 

You can put a small motor on a BC, there are brackets, not sure about the Weta. If you're planning on going 9-11 knots with an outboard on any of these boats you'll probably be dissapointed.

 

Any used boat will require work, except for yours Wess. The person who buys that boat won't have to do anything. Mine, well, I don't have nearly in it what you have in yours. I've had it for ten years though and it cost $36. You can get used boats in good shape for good money, and if money is what drives people then these are competition. The other new boats mentioned are two expensive to be considered competition. But good solid boats offering the same or more in the price range are.

 

As for fleet building - here's a thought. If they want it to take off big right out of the start, they should have it be the boat for an Alter Cup and then offer that round of boats for sale at a great price. Instant fleet. Anything else might take too long to gain traction. But that's a lot of money and product. Manufacturer run OD racing can be a mixed bag, as you pointed out. If the builder decides it's not their passion to run the OD program then things whither.

 

Vaplaya - you are correct, 20knots on a 20' boat is awesome!

 

Anyway, here's a gratuitous video of a day sail with family and friends (also with family), I don't think I'd put this many on a 20 foot anything.

 

 

Here's a nice view of Wess's boat:

 

 

 

Hopefully at any of the Corsair rendezvous they'll bring at least a couple 600s and schedule a specific time in the event for folks to see/touch/test sail them...

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Having a HP beach cat is only greedy if you don't take your family members out for sails. There's nothing inherent in an HP beachcat that says you can't.

I have a little one, and another on the way. I could picture myself taking my 2 kids and wife out on a Pulse in the future. Put a 12v battery with a portable fridge up front to keep some food and drinks cool. Store some bags with dry cloths, an anchor and a boom tent for the four of us to sleep under if we do an overnighter. I can't see myself doing that on an F18.

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Hey kbcH20,

 

I knew the kbc, but did not know about the Hobie. Keelboat? Do tell...

 

On the Pulse and the categories:

 

Short-handed daysailing

Family daysailing

Cruising

Rating racing

OD racing

 

I am not saying a beach cat, or a tri (our F27s) can't do it all, I am just saying they are not the best option for many of the categories. Of course you can cruise a beachcat or a tri, but neither your or my family WILL! There are better boats on which to spend the same beachcat or tri money if the primary goal is cruising (or OD racing) for example.

 

For example $200K for a Cruze to go cruising? As much as we both like tris, can't you think of 100s of boats that would be better cruisers for $200K? Same story for the F22 at around $100K. There are many boats that will do any of the jobs better for that price. I like both of them; I just can't justify either on a rational best bang for the buck basis.

 

My point is only that with the Pulse, Corsair has stripped the boat and price down to what a tri does best. At the price, I can't think of a better boat for daysailing with the family (or short-handed). And at half the price of a J70, if Corsair would do what it takes to build and sustain an OD fleet....

 

I can hope, can't I?

 

Hey, your jib looks great on that video, LOL.

 

Almost went sailing yesterday, but the water all went south and Lola was sitting on the bottom!

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I am in the same situation of Tornado_LIVE. All that you mentioned plus an outboard motor. An outboard is not an option in any of my boats at this time. Although I have, there is absolutely no way that my wife or child would go any long distance on my Weta.

As much as I totally love my BeachCat and I really love my BeachCat, I do not see myself taking my young child on it; it would be like teaching her to ride a horse in a wild bronco. And I will not be trying to go destination cruising on it again either.

Come on kbcH20 lets convince Corsair to put trapezes on this thing!!! I left a comment on one of the first developments updates but it seem to have been ignored. The Magnum 21 tri from Virus boats has a trapeze.

I do agree with " they should have it be the boat for an Alter Cup and then offer that round of boats for sale at a great price" to build a fleet.

Cheers, vaplaya

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Nice post.

yes the conversion is difficult. I took a mono friend out in my weta a couple times. Showed him all the possibilities, singlehanding, with kids, etc. It was the fastest he ever went in a sailboat. Light helm. Acceleration. Etc. He loved it and his kids too.

Not for a second he would consider going to multis! Its as if I had just took him for a spin in an airplane.

 

Almost the opposite for me. Of the half dozen people I have taken out in the Weta (all mono-hull sailors, none of who had ever been on a multihull), one bought a Weta, another bought an H16, another bought a Prindle of some description and the other 3 went back to their monohulls, but all had one hell of a time going 16 to 17 MPH on a little 14 foot boat.

 

The Pulse 600 interests me as a logical step between a small racing dingy like the Weta and a larger boat like the M23 or similar. I look forward to actually seeing one and what it can do. My only concern is how it will feel - what is the sensation of speed going to be? A 20 footer that can do 25 mph (?) isn't likely to "feel" as fast as a 14 footer than can do 19 mph.

 

I´m interested in the 600 for the same reasons. The use I would give it would be the same, but with more capacity to family daysail as they would be drier, comfier, acceptable cargo and the outboard which is the game changer.

 

But having said that, I would loose the capacity to manually launch it in a ramp by myself as I do with the Weta.

 

So, if I´m going to need assistance launching, but I gain outboard+ cargo, etc, why not go to a slightly bigger boat then . Why would you not go straight to a Multi23 for example? or even a Sprint? (cost aside)

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I know I should let Sailplane answer for himself, but....I am going to butt in anyway.

 

A weta can be launched by one person

 

A 600 can be launched by one person with the assistance of a car or truck

 

A weta can be rolled across a beach by one person

 

The 600, not so much

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I know I should let Sailplane answer for himself, but....I am going to butt in anyway.

 

A weta can be launched by one person

 

A 600 can be launched by one person with the assistance of a car or truck

 

A weta can be rolled across a beach by one person

 

The 600, not so much

what unShirley says. Its specific to my ramp, its a club only for kiteboards, sufboards and beachcats, the ramp is not easily accessible by a car. I have the Weta literally at 40m lawn from the ramp, so it is very very nice and convenient.

 

with anything bigger, including an 18ft cat, I would need either a helper, or a car, or a winch

 

so that´s my question, if I´m going to loose that convenience of a small boat, why not just go a little bigger

 

say what is the case of Pulse600 vs Multi23 (cost aside, of course)

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can you put the 600 on a buoy mooring?

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say what is the case of Pulse600 vs Multi23 (cost aside, of course

One word: FOLDABILITY.

 

On a trailerable boat this size, it is much more important than most realize.

 

Read this post on the old SAM (Sailing Anarchy designed Multihull) thread.

 

-MH

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Difference between the 600 and Multi23?

 

Folding, folding, folding in and out the water. Folding is sweeeeeet!!!!!

 

Cheers

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say what is the case of Pulse600 vs Multi23 (cost aside, of course

One word: FOLDABILITY.

 

On a trailerable boatthis size, it is much more important than most realize.

 

Read this post on the old Sailing Anarchy Multihull (SAM) thread.

 

-MH

 

oh sh*t I forgot about that. yes thats day and night!

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I like it but at 35K it was much easier(and about 34K cheaper) to just add wings to my beachcat. Dry, don't need to trap, easy to launch. Same length, same sail area and about 200 lbs lighter.

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For those of you considering the Multi - 23, I would advise that you sail it first. I have spent 3 full days on the boat in a racing environment as crew and as skipper. It is a beautiful boat to look at BUT, in my opinion it doesn't sail well. Except on certain angles off the wind it is just slow. Try before you buy! I'm just sayin'

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Delivered price of a Corsair Pulse in USA should be under $40k, probably around $38k, with all three sails, motor, motor mount and trailer. So twice the price of a Weta, and in my opinion its three times as much boat.

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Delivered price of a Corsair Pulse in USA should be under $40k, probably around $38k, with all three sails, motor, motor mount and trailer. So twice the price of a Weta, and in my opinion its three times as much boat.

$33500 ex factory but you need to add

Shipping

Motor

Trailer to bolt the cradle too &

Tax & duty

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Delivered price of a Corsair Pulse in USA should be under $40k, probably around $38k, with all three sails, motor, motor mount and trailer. So twice the price of a Weta, and in my opinion its three times as much boat.

$33500 ex factory but you need to add

Shipping

Motor

Trailer to bolt the cradle too &

Tax & duty

Three sails...what is the third sail (Ayso, Gennaker, Screecher?), and does the boat include a prod?

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The third sail is an asymetrical spinnaker. A top down furler may be offered as an option. No bowsprit is provided for in the design, at least at this point. The $38k estimate depends on shipping 4 boats together in one container.

By comparison, the Multi 23 which is actually about the same size, ended up costing more than this and it had no golding system. Er, folding system.

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For those of you considering the Multi - 23, I would advise that you sail it first. I have spent 3 full days on the boat in a racing environment as crew and as skipper. It is a beautiful boat to look at BUT, in my opinion it doesn't sail well. Except on certain angles off the wind it is just slow. Try before you buy! I'm just sayin'

 

NGU - can you flesh out your thoughts please?

 

I certainly agree that aesthetically it looks right. My thoughts have centred on the amount of dihedral - you need enough to allow the boat to remain nimble in the turns - but I have looked at footage of it on a straight line and may be it has too much, giving away outright power.

 

Really curious to hear from someone who has direct experience.

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Having a HP beach cat is only greedy if you don't take your family members out for sails. There's nothing inherent in an HP beachcat that says you can't.

I have a little one, and another on the way. I could picture myself taking my 2 kids and wife out on a Pulse in the future. Put a 12v battery with a portable fridge up front to keep some food and drinks cool. Store some bags with dry cloths, an anchor and a boom tent for the four of us to sleep under if we do an overnighter. I can't see myself doing that on an F18.

 

A 12v battery and a fridge? This boat isn't even 20 feet long. I don't even have a fridge on the 27. Cooler does fine, and even if you have a need for running lights I'd go battery powered LED. Again, you'll be camp-cruising. Until we see the boat in person, we won't be able to tell how friendly it will be for sleeping on. From the pictures, and realizing it's 19'8", and then working the general proportions eyeball wise, I don't see much comfort for overnight, even sleeping on the tramps. So again, if you're camp cruising, a N-20 (or similar), lightweight pop up or back packing tent (can set it up right on the tramp or on the beach), a few water proof bags, and you're in for a bunch less. If you're going to anchor out and sleep aboard, take the money and get a used bigger boat, IMO.

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I am in the same situation of Tornado_LIVE. All that you mentioned plus an outboard motor. An outboard is not an option in any of my boats at this time. Although I have, there is absolutely no way that my wife or child would go any long distance on my Weta.

As much as I totally love my BeachCat and I really love my BeachCat, I do not see myself taking my young child on it; it would be like teaching her to ride a horse in a wild bronco. And I will not be trying to go destination cruising on it again either.

Come on kbcH20 lets convince Corsair to put trapezes on this thing!!! I left a comment on one of the first developments updates but it seem to have been ignored. The Magnum 21 tri from Virus boats has a trapeze.

I do agree with " they should have it be the boat for an Alter Cup and then offer that round of boats for sale at a great price" to build a fleet.

Cheers, vaplaya

 

I took my youngest out on my N-20 when she was about 5. I actually was hoping the trip was not going to involve sailing, just paddling the boat from on storage spot to another and getting her used to being on it, as it was supposed to be near dead calm. The wind piped a bit, couldn't paddle against it, so ended up sailing. Just put up the main, no jib and left the spin in the sock. We ended up taking a reach all the way out the West River into the Chesapeake Bay, windward hull just skimming. No trapping, feathering the main. A nice fast ride and controlled ride and she loved it! In any boat with young kids it's about taking the right circumstances, and sailing to the situation. Don't make it a long ride, and don't go out in silly conditions. You can scare kids in any kind of boat (you don't need a BC for that).

 

There was a nice 20" day sailing+ tri on the market from Dragonfly I believe. It had a trap, the pictures were cool. Don't think many hit the water.

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Boink, Thinking back I realize that my initial impression of the Multi - 23 at the dock was WOW! This VPLP design is a thing of beauty and the build-quality is first rate. The dihedral is a real question? It seems excessive but I am no naval architect. The boat does have a tendency to flop from side to side too much at the dock. While sailing the heel seems quite a bit more than other TRIS of comparable size. This is no accident of design. Good or bad - I don't know, it is just different. My sense that the boat was not especially quick comes from racing in mixed fleets of large Cats and mono-hulls. It felt heavy but here is the real surprise: The Multi - 23 tips the scales at approx 317 kgs compared to the Corsair 750 MKll at 816 kgs and the SeaCart 26 at 800 kgs ( granted they are bigger but a good comparison ). All my impressions are naturally subjective and personal, and could be just plain wrong. Try the Multi -23 yourself. You be the judge. Happy Sailing!

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Hey kbcH20,

 

I knew the kbc, but did not know about the Hobie. Keelboat? Do tell...

 

On the Pulse and the categories:

 

Short-handed daysailing

Family daysailing

Cruising

Rating racing

OD racing

 

I am not saying a beach cat, or a tri (our F27s) can't do it all, I am just saying they are not the best option for many of the categories. Of course you can cruise a beachcat or a tri, but neither your or my family WILL! There are better boats on which to spend the same beachcat or tri money if the primary goal is cruising (or OD racing) for example.

 

For example $200K for a Cruze to go cruising? As much as we both like tris, can't you think of 100s of boats that would be better cruisers for $200K? Same story for the F22 at around $100K. There are many boats that will do any of the jobs better for that price. I like both of them; I just can't justify either on a rational best bang for the buck basis.

 

My point is only that with the Pulse, Corsair has stripped the boat and price down to what a tri does best. At the price, I can't think of a better boat for daysailing with the family (or short-handed). And at half the price of a J70, if Corsair would do what it takes to build and sustain an OD fleet....

 

I can hope, can't I?

 

Hey, your jib looks great on that video, LOL.

 

Almost went sailing yesterday, but the water all went south and Lola was sitting on the bottom!

 

Wess,

Keelboat was the family boat that I ended up being the caretaker and user of. A Sparkman-Stephens designed Northstar 500, 25' early quarter-tonner. A nice boat, but it needed more water and heavier air than the Bay usually serves up. And you can't get anywhere in a day at 5-7 knots on the Bay. It now lives as the Club boat for the Percy Priest Yacht Club in Tennessee, where they have actually gone around the country finding these boats to build their own one design fleet. And that, my friends, is one lesson about how to build a local OD Fleet. But that's another topic...

 

My point on this boat, for all the talk of cruising it, is that you will be camp cruising. If that's your goal, you don't need to spend $40K. A Nacra-20, 6.0, or even a Hobie-18 (or 21) with wings might do it for way less. If you want to small boat cruise, and you want to spend $40k, there are many better options in the used market (Corsair 24/27 for instance). But yes, in all cases, if you're going to try overnighting with the family they need to be into it, on any size boat. Some folks are in for the adventure and would love it. Some are in it for the luxury (and we certainly are not talking that) andn would not, and some wouldn't do it on anything for a zillion bucks. But this boat will do it to, I'm sure.

 

Unitil we see it in person it's hard to tell, but this boat seems to be heavy enough to make setting up and launching off the beach hard, IMO. It will need to be trailer sailed, or put on a bouy. If so cost of operations and such goes up a bit. Here's a scenario for our area. Sandy Point State Park has a great off the beach launch area, and a great launch ramp area. I can trailer the N-20 or 6.0 to the launch beach, roll it off the trailer on the beach wheels, rig and in we go. Coming back is the opposite. For the 600, it's to the launch ramps. Rig, dunk and then park the trailer, and motor out the inlet before I can even go sailing. So, for a performance day sailor, you may be giving up just enough small boat convenience for not enough big boat benefit. If you're going to pay for the infrastructure needed for a big boat (slip, mooring, on the hard mast up, etc.) then the boat is a bit small for the benefit. So, for me, at that price, I can see a lot of options for daysailing or small cruising, most especially if you look at the used market.

 

But, buying boats is not logical, so we're probably fooling ourselves with all the talk to justify its purchase (we can cruise! we can OD! we can, we can, we can...). The fact is if it's cool and folks fall in love with it they find a way to buy it and sail it. And that's where hopefully Corsair does it justice by bringing a bunch in up front and letting people play with them. I remember at the Nationals in 2012, the large numbers of F-27s. There were a few of the newer boats there, but nothing set up timewise in the event to get the folks from the older boats to take a sail on the newer boats and perhaps get hooked. Lost opportunity. If the same approach is used for the 600 it will be a slow build up IMO. The boat looks cool on paper.

 

And yes, that jib looked nice! Also went to look to go sail, but I missed my op for pulling the 27, there is now ice everywhere!

 

Cheers, K

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K - You are busy typing today. I just got on line to check out some wind models for frostbiting. Come with and lets Laser!

 

You and I are making the same point on cruising. I think? Yes, you can cruise a tri (or a beach cat); but there are so many boats that will do that job so much better for so much less money. I would never spend my money on a tri or beach cat for cruising and I am not saying the Pulse is any good for that.

 

I would spend my money on a tri for short-handed or family daysailing (this is what tris are best at IMHO), or in my unfullfilled dreams to go OD racing (this is what I wish somebody in the tri segment would get good at - Weta has come closest but its too much like a dink for my taste and I have a dink or two).

 

If you need help to get the 27 out just give me a call. See a thaw this week and I could help you pull her at any of the local ramps (which do you use?).

 

The elder twerp just turned 18 yesterday and has appointment packages coming from at least two service academies coming. We keep telling her to go ivy league so she and her sister just signed up for and started - no kidding - MMA and floor fighting training at Ivey League MMA. I NEED to go sailing and drinking.

 

Now its not just the Mids we sponsor, but our own kids that know a few ways to kill us, LOL.

 

I gotta convince Mom that we should run away from home with a Winny, a Pulse, and the kid's 501Ks!

 

Wess

 

PS - Absolutely agree w you re Corsair and bringing boats to Nationals. Never understood why they don't. If Weta or Corsair would do what J-boats or LP do in Naps or Newport they would have OD fleets there they could build from. Maybe its just too expensive and they don't have the margins or (more likely) there is something I am just missing. Anyway gotta run and play fat boy in a radial (in light breeze sadly). Oh well, at least the rotator cuffs are improving on both shoulders and I have only had one swim even given the few days of 25-30 plus. Today I gotta go take my medicine and pay the piper who will belt out omn single digit wind speeds. YUCK!

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K - You are busy typing today. I just got on line to check out some wind models for frostbiting. Come with and lets Laser!

 

You and I are making the same point on cruising. I think? Yes, you can cruise a tri (or a beach cat); but there are so many boats that will do that job so much better for so much less money. I would never spend my money on a tri or beach cat for cruising and I am not saying the Pulse is any good for that.

 

I would spend my money on a tri for short-handed or family daysailing (this is what tris are best at IMHO), or in my unfullfilled dreams to go OD racing (this is what I wish somebody in the tri segment would get good at - Weta has come closest but its too much like a dink for my taste and I have a dink or two).

 

If you need help to get the 27 out just give me a call. See a thaw this week and I could help you pull her at any of the local ramps (which do you use?).

 

The elder twerp just turned 18 yesterday and has appointment packages coming from at least two service academies coming. We keep telling her to go ivy league so she and her sister just signed up for and started - no kidding - MMA and floor fighting training at Ivey League MMA. I NEED to go sailing and drinking.

 

Now its not just the Mids we sponsor, but our own kids that know a few ways to kill us, LOL.

 

I gotta convince Mom that we should run away from home with a Winny, a Pulse, and the kid's 501Ks!

 

Wess

 

PS - Absolutely agree w you re Corsair and bringing boats to Nationals. Never understood why they don't. If Weta or Corsair would do what J-boats or LP do in Naps or Newport they would have OD fleets there they could build from. Maybe its just too expensive and they don't have the margins or (more likely) there is something I am just missing. Anyway gotta run and play fat boy in a radial (in light breeze sadly). Oh well, at least the rotator cuffs are improving on both shoulders and I have only had one swim even given the few days of 25-30 plus. Today I gotta go take my medicine and pay the piper who will belt out omn single digit wind speeds. YUCK!

Eeek! Yah, a little too much typing. That's what happens when u don't get out sailing enough. Good luck today and I may take u up on offers! I'll study Pulse website and do house stuff today...

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No bowsprit is provided for in the design, at least at this point.

 

So I guess a MkII version is just around the corner, huh?

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I am in the same situation of Tornado_LIVE. All that you mentioned plus an outboard motor. An outboard is not an option in any of my boats at this time. Although I have, there is absolutely no way that my wife or child would go any long distance on my Weta.

 

 

As much as I totally love my BeachCat and I really love my BeachCat, I do not see myself taking my young child on it; it would be like teaching her to ride a horse in a wild bronco. And I will not be trying to go destination cruising on it again either.

 

Come on kbcH20 lets convince Corsair to put trapezes on this thing!!! I left a comment on one of the first developments updates but it seem to have been ignored. The Magnum 21 tri from Virus boats has a trapeze.

 

I do agree with " they should have it be the boat for an Alter Cup and then offer that round of boats for sale at a great price" to build a fleet.

 

Cheers, vaplaya

 

I took my youngest out on my N-20 when she was about 5. I actually was hoping the trip was not going to involve sailing, just paddling the boat from on storage spot to another and getting her used to being on it, as it was supposed to be near dead calm. The wind piped a bit, couldn't paddle against it, so ended up sailing. Just put up the main, no jib and left the spin in the sock. We ended up taking a reach all the way out the West River into the Chesapeake Bay, windward hull just skimming. No trapping, feathering the main. A nice fast ride and controlled ride and she loved it! In any boat with young kids it's about taking the right circumstances, and sailing to the situation. Don't make it a long ride, and don't go out in silly conditions. You can scare kids in any kind of boat (you don't need a BC for that).

 

There was a nice 20" day sailing+ tri on the market from Dragonfly I believe. It had a trap, the pictures were cool. Don't think many hit the water.

And of course that should be 20', not 20"...

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Just a thought stimulated by an earlier comment from last fall on this thread. I got to race with my buddy in a medium (for the Chesapeake) distance race last fall on his Hobie 20 which he had modified with wings. What a ride! An 18-20' beach cat with wings added is a sweet ride for us older gheezers: comfortable seating, no trapezing needed, and you miss 90% of the spray. In a wild spin run up the Choptank, we just sat on the back corner of the wing and let her fly.

 

If one's considering low cost racing without the comfort/flexibility issues of sailng on a trampoline, this could be a great re-fit to many older beach cats. Add a hard or soft pouch/cuddy and you have a pretty nice set up.

 

I admit it would not be easy to get this type of set up accepted for most of the distance racing on the bay. Thanks to the NASS for allowing beach cats in their Oxford race.

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Just a thought stimulated by an earlier comment from last fall on this thread. I got to race with my buddy in a medium (for the Chesapeake) distance race last fall on his Hobie 20 which he had modified with wings. What a ride! An 18-20' beach cat with wings added is a sweet ride for us older gheezers: comfortable seating, no trapezing needed, and you miss 90% of the spray. In a wild spin run up the Choptank, we just sat on the back corner of the wing and let her fly.

 

If one's considering low cost racing without the comfort/flexibility issues of sailng on a trampoline, this could be a great re-fit to many older beach cats. Add a hard or soft pouch/cuddy and you have a pretty nice set up.

 

I admit it would not be easy to get this type of set up accepted for most of the distance racing on the bay. Thanks to the NASS for allowing beach cats in their Oxford race.

Do a look up on the Hobie-21 SC...

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Just a thought stimulated by an earlier comment from last fall on this thread. I got to race with my buddy in a medium (for the Chesapeake) distance race last fall on his Hobie 20 which he had modified with wings. What a ride! An 18-20' beach cat with wings added is a sweet ride for us older gheezers: comfortable seating, no trapezing needed, and you miss 90% of the spray. In a wild spin run up the Choptank, we just sat on the back corner of the wing and let her fly.

 

If one's considering low cost racing without the comfort/flexibility issues of sailng on a trampoline, this could be a great re-fit to many older beach cats. Add a hard or soft pouch/cuddy and you have a pretty nice set up.

 

I admit it would not be easy to get this type of set up accepted for most of the distance racing on the bay. Thanks to the NASS for allowing beach cats in their Oxford race.

Do a look up on the Hobie-21 SC...

Yeah, its got those attributes, but what a pig. The guy who had one at Solomon's used to hitch it to his pickup to pull it up on the beach. That is one heavy cat. It's also 10' wide, I think, so issues with trailering.

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No bowsprit is provided for in the design, at least at this point.

 

So I guess a MkII version is just around the corner, huh?

Agreed. My limited experience w/ sprit boats: Weta, F28, modified F27, modified M23, they are the way to go. The sprit and Ayso adds so much horsepower, why wouldn't you do it (beside added expense)? No bowsprit (or prod), I'm not interested.

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Just a thought stimulated by an earlier comment from last fall on this thread. I got to race with my buddy in a medium (for the Chesapeake) distance race last fall on his Hobie 20 which he had modified with wings. What a ride! An 18-20' beach cat with wings added is a sweet ride for us older gheezers: comfortable seating, no trapezing needed, and you miss 90% of the spray. In a wild spin run up the Choptank, we just sat on the back corner of the wing and let her fly.

 

If one's considering low cost racing without the comfort/flexibility issues of sailng on a trampoline, this could be a great re-fit to many older beach cats. Add a hard or soft pouch/cuddy and you have a pretty nice set up.

 

I admit it would not be easy to get this type of set up accepted for most of the distance racing on the bay. Thanks to the NASS for allowing beach cats in their Oxford race.

 

Do a look up on the Hobie-21 SC...

Yeah, its got those attributes, but what a pig. The guy who had one at Solomon's used to hitch it to his pickup to pull it up on the beach. That is one heavy cat. It's also 10' wide, I think, so issues with trailering.

The sc is a narrow cruisified version with hard storage cubbies and a front tramp. The se was 10' wide but had telescoping beams. They are a bit on the heavy side...

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Nice pic of the Dragonfly!!!!

 

Ok!!! Who can right an H21 or an I20 catamaran by themselves if it flips. I cannot even right a turtled H16 by myself. I though we were talking about an all around boat. Single handling, family sailing with a thrill.

 

Let me tell you about my family cruising plans. Go to a destination with a marina and lodging near by. Example of one leg of the trip. Go from Cape Charles to Tangier Island, 33nm. This could be done easily in one day with good wind on a Pulse 600. Dock at a marina, eat at a casual restaurant and stay at one of the Bed and Breakfast. Next day head to another destination or back. Pretty sweet!!!

 

Why pay for the maintenance expense of a bigger boat (e.g. F24) when there is no way my wife would sleep in it.

 

Cheers, Vaplaya

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Nice pic of the Dragonfly!!!!

 

Ok!!! Who can right an H21 or an I20 catamaran by themselves if it flips. I cannot even right a turtled H16 by myself. I though we were talking about an all around boat. Single handling, family sailing with a thrill.

 

Let me tell you about my family cruising plans. Go to a destination with a marina and lodging near by. Example of one leg of the trip. Go from Cape Charles to Tangier Island, 33nm. This could be done easily in one day with good wind on a Pulse 600. Dock at a marina, eat at a casual restaurant and stay at one of the Bed and Breakfast. Next day head to another destination or back. Pretty sweet!!!

 

Why pay for the maintenance expense of a bigger boat (e.g. F24) when there is no way my wife would sleep in it.

 

Cheers, Vaplaya

 

Well, this will sound like a smart-ass answer, but don't capsize in the first place. I have single handed all of the beach cats I've owned. Hell, I've singlehanded all of the boats I've owned. But as always you need to be careful about conditions and plan for contingencies. I don't singlehand my N-20 in 20 knots. Wouldn't be fun. But, you can prep for single handed righting by getting a righting pole, or other techniques. That having been said the H-21 is a heavy boat. The sc version has a cut down rig and a Hobie Bob to help on those things. Not sure what your BC experience is, but if it is only H-16 then you owe it to yourself to try some newer boats before judging. For what it's worth I always found my Hobies to be harder to right than my Nacras (that should get some comments...).

 

A guy in our club did a similar trip with his girlfriend last year on a N-20. They may have actually done Tangiers. They had a ball.

 

But, the 600 is not a big boat. So even with that for the trip you are talking it could be pleasent or it could really suck. Plan with options to delay for weather and have an alternate destination in mind if it doesn't clear. You'll be on a less than 20' open boat. With family and kids...

 

Also, looking a the pics, it's got a bit of sail and a decently tall mast. Again, pre-production pictures, but that's all we have to go by. There are reefing points on the main, but this could be a powerful boat that can capsize as well. It will be interesting to see...

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kbcH20,

 

You are actually succeeding at changing my mind for a used bigger boat if I were to "upgrade" or stay with my current boats. I have sailed various BeachCats in my time. I now have an older A-cat and a Weta. Both boats I love.

 

At a 165lbs (of pure muscle, of course :-), it is tough for me to single handle other than A-cats and maybe F16s.

 

I sail in the lower Chesapeake. The wind forecast here is an enormous, giantous joke. You can go out on a Sunny, 80degree, 8-10 knots and it can turn in to 20+ knots, still sunny and beautiful. It can also turn into 0 knots. I have experience both many times. Therefore I do not go more than ~10nm from the beach that I launch from.

 

I was looking at the 600 as a boat to go further to some daysailing destinations (>10nm), since it seems to be more substantial than a BeachCat and it has a motor. Also I expect that it would have reefing points.

 

Like you said, it will be interesting to see...

 

You should pack your N20 and come down to race with the Hobie Fleet 32, they are a great, fun bunch of BeachCat sailors.

 

Cheers, vaplaya

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Maybe I can add some perspective of a 20ft dayboat tri from a beachcat background.

 

Had various Nacras, then Taipan 4.9, now Virus Magnum 21 Tri with nonstandard 22m^2 gennaker and trapeze.

 

My family feel comfortable on the tri and they didn't on the beachcats. On a hard cold beat to weather the two kids shelter in the bow compartment and they love it as their little cubby. My young one sleeps on the deck of the centre hull easily and it doesn't stop the sailing. I can carry enough for camp cruising for four easily for fours days ( happened two days ago in the Hawkesbury River ). With the gennaker and a rudder fence I can plane the boat in 20kts and still get some thrills ( the boat does still feel slow after a beach cat). If the wind stops on holiday I can fire up the 3hp Yamaha and go trolling for fish on the way home to the ramp to keep the family occupied. Not being able to drag the boat up the beach isn't too bad, I just carry a bow and stern anchor and anchor stern too the shorein knee deep water.

 

Beach camping with two is the best as I have a pop up tent on one tramp, centre hull for luggage, food and a galley box The other tramp is for fishing or relaxing on, it beats a beach cat.

 

I think it has more safety for the family and when things get hairy as it can be easily singlehanded, including heaving to, to put in a reef or two.

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Regarding the bowsprit. Just fly a symmetrical from the amas.

Been there, done that.....in the 1980s

 

Back in the old day (about a year ago), Multihuller and I regularly (like every week) raced his F-27 with asym against a well sailed F-27 with a sym. Guess who got to the leeward mark first?

 

Let's make it a quiz

 

A ) The Asym

B ) The Sym

C ) Neither Asym or Sym seem to have an advantage

D ) Pick C Bob. For the love of God, pick C.

 

Bonus question. Buzz in when you know the answer.

On typical breezy days here in San Francisco, which kite is the easiest to jibe?

 

A ) The Asym - going through about 70 degrees of rotation.

B ) The Sym - going through about 5.265 degrees (roughly) of rotation.

C ) Wait, fuck, you said "tack over the sheet!" I can never remember that mundane stuff.

D) A and C are both correct because sailing is all about busting your ass instead of drinking beer like the guys on the Sym boat. Poofers.

 

just saying'....

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It takes two crew to jibe a sym spin, one of whom is on the bow of the aka detaching the foreguy from the old tack and re-attaching it to the new tack. The ayso on the sprit can be jibed by one crew sitting safely in the cockpit.

 

I have mucho experience sailing both types and much prefer the sprit.

 

if I am buying an older boat that I am going to use primarily for cruising and daysailing, the sym spinny is fine. But if I am buying a brand new race boat I want a sprit.

 

just saying....

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Hey Bob. Got a few years racing an F27 w both class legal sym and asym. There are conditions that suit either in terms of DDW VMG in our experience. Don't think there is one answer there. I will say that the ability to swing the tack of the asym out from the bowsprit towards the ama (we can rig that way) sure favors the asym over the sym generally in my opinion (if only carrying one). Generally faster and more flexible for sure.

 

Uncle, I gotta disagree w you. Might be our conditions which tend to be big chop when light air, but screecher is least useful sail on boat. Genny more effective in those conditions. As for the sym, it does not need two. I single hand w it all the time. Its rigged poleless and there is zero loss of speed (compared to pole) on any angle. Super easy to hoist, douse, and gybe. But as noted above I will take the asyms w full cut and swing the tack around for maximum DDW VMG. I like what they did here (w/out the sprit) w the Pulse in terms of bang for the buck and ease of use.

 

You beach catters crack me up. KBC got me in a trap once. Never again. Hated it so much I tore up his chute (that really was a mistake - I swear). Been paying pennance ever since watching him beat me with my sails and then posting the dang videos, LOL. Traps. Good grief. Be a real man and hike a Laser flat. Because it feel so good when you stop. :blink: Seriously, dude if you need help to pull TP, give me a yell. Can help so long as I have advance warning to clear it with the 3 wise ladies at home.

 

Oh and lastly, Bob, I am extremely dissappointed. Beer?? On a racing multihull?? Never ever on mine. Too little buzz/lb with beer. Its gotta be rum or gin or rye or scotch. Much higher buzz per weight unit! :D

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Vaplaya - we've got a similar group in Galesville. We need to create some opportunities between the two! I know what you mean about the Bay - enough CRAC C-100s to have experienced both sides of that coin, but without a motor and needing to tough it out to finish!

 

Nacrajon - great perspective from somebody who's already doing it! Awesome.

 

Wess - I can honestly say being on the wire for ~120 miles from Islamorada to Hollywood Beach was more comfortable than the 120 miles of DTB on the F-27. My body hurt from being in contact with all the hard surfaces and edges for so long. All three of us were longing for trapezes! But then the Hollywood Beach trip didn't take as long either...

 

Cheers

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My last word on the sprit vs. no sprit subject (maybe).

 

I concede that a sym spinny can be as fast or faster than an ayso, especially sailing deep.

 

But, this is the 21st century. On a new boat I want 21st century sails and sail handling equipment.

 

IMO, the sprit makes sail handling simpler, easier, and gives one more options.

 

BTW: Wess, we use our Screecher on the F28 often, usually reaching higher than the chute can handle.

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It takes two crew to jibe a sym spin, one of whom is on the bow of the aka detaching the foreguy from the old tack and re-attaching it to the new tack. The ayso on the sprit can be jibed by one crew sitting safely in the cockpit.

 

I have mucho experience sailing both types and much prefer the sprit.

 

if I am buying an older boat that I am going to use primarily for cruising and daysailing, the sym spinny is fine. But if I am buying a brand new race boat I want a sprit.

 

just saying....

 

Ok now you're just trying to scare me. Nobody is going anywhere near the front of the boat. That's where bowfreaks hangout and have no business on a multi. Are you f'ing crazy!

 

Here's the rigging for those in the studio audience:

 

Option 1: Twinger Style.

 

post-180-0-05229700-1421179706_thumb.jpg

 

To jibe (port to starboard)

 

1 ) Skipper sets beer down (safety first)

2 ) Crew dude #1 pulls starboard ama twing (from cockpit)

3 ) Skipper jibes boat

4 ) Crew dude #1 releases port twing (from cockpit).

5 ) Crew dude #1 adjust port sheet and starboard guy to taste.

6 ) Skipper picks up beer and resumes babbling incoherently.

6 ) Crew dude #2 never even showed up to the boat. Hack!

 

 

Option 2: Double Trouble

 

post-180-0-66221000-1421179719_thumb.jpg

 

To jibe (port to starboard)

 

1 ) Skipper sets 2nd beer down. Burp.

2 ) Crew dude #1 pulls starboard ama guy (from cockpit, where he lives)

3 ) Skipper recklessly jibes boat endangering everyone for miles

4 ) Crew dude #1 releases port guy (from cockpit).

5 ) Crew dude #1 adjust port sheet and starboard guy to taste.

6 ) Skipper picks up 2nd beer and tell crew #1 to clean all that line up.

6 ) Crew dude #2 has showed up at the dock but realizes the boat left about 3 hours ago. Dumbass.

 

 

I'm not saying the Pulse 600 shouldn't have a bowsprit, Corsair can't possibly be that stupid, but if does for some ungodly reason get built that way, people without hacksaws and fiberglass/carbon experience or easy access to the five guys standing outside Home Depot can still enjoy a traumatizing spinnaker ride.

 

Equation for not selling boats:

No Sale = Pulse600 without Bowsprit = Multi23 Not Folding

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I agree with you bhyde, if this boat does not have a sprit it is a no sale for me and many others I'm sure.

 

While there is no sprit shown in the early renderings, I would not be surprised if they add one to an "R" version of the boat.

 

I'll keep my fingers crossed! C'mon Corsair, you can do it!

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A sprit would be nice however the Motive 25, Diam 24 and Multi 22 all run screechers on furlers from the bow as well. If it helps keeps the cost down further, would it be a bad thing. Most important thing would be to keep it strict one design.

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KBC - Check your email re Nationals and get back to me off-line. They seem to have listened to you. Talk of demo boats and a Pulse.

 

All - Don't understand you guys with all the talk of traps and bowsprits. It all just adds cost and complexity and scares away a significant segment of the sailing market (that could be racing w us).

 

If I just want to daysail my tri I really don't care if I am going 10 knots or 11.5 knots SOG. Ian designed a great boat in the original F27 (pin head main, no sprit). OK sure the formula version F27F with square top main, double spreader rig, bow sprit, screecher, checkstays, rudder fence, and stern extension is a slight bit faster (check the PHRF ratings) but really for daysailing who cares? For rating racing, if fairly rated (OK good luck achieving fair wide band multihull rating system), who cares. All it did was add a lot of cost, make it less user friendly, and take a lot of players out of what was a good OD game.

 

I suggest that with all these tweaks and improvements (yes, I admit they are improvements), all you are doing is keeping the "engineers" happy, and pricing out or scaring off many "sailors." The trimaran segment is maybe small because its maybe populated with folks that are perhaps more into engineering and tweaking than the sailing. Biggest class is likely A cats which is in terms of weekend warriers an engineers dream. But I would rather race a Laser at what - 1/20th the price - and since is more accessible and user friendly we have huge fleets everywhere.

 

Did the Weta get traction in the trimaran class because it has a sprit, and a trap, and its the highest tech, coolest, latest thing? Or did it get traction and build numbers because it was affordable, user friendly, and had a manuacturer and dealer network that supported OD racing?

 

I am hoping Corsair produces a boat (and aggressively manages a class at the manufacturer and dealer level) that is equally as affordable (ie max the bang for buck factor), and user friendly. I hope it appeals to monohullers sailing Albergs, Cal 25s (because it can be easily trailered anywhere and still OD with half the crew), to dinghy and Weta sailors (because it can OD, trailer easy, AND take the whole family out daysailing), and multihullers like me who want an affordable, easily trailered boat that will have OD fleets filled with folks that want to sail and OD race and not play rating games, do endless engineering tweaks that drive up cost and complexity and kill the OD concept... nevermind and scare off the huge portion of sailors that has never been and never will get in a trap or care about foil selection.

 

I have a dream... :)

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"Did the Weta get traction in the trimaran class because it has a sprit, and a trap, and its the highest tech, coolest, latest thing? Or did it get traction and build numbers because it was affordable, user friendly, and had a manuacturer and dealer network that supported OD racing?"

 

I know a good many people who don't think it's affordable! Value is a relative, I guess.

 

The sprit and screecher do make the Weta a much better value I think, as that 3rd sail adds a tremendous amount of additional versatility to the boat. I'd guess it has at least something to do with the boat's growing popularity.

 

Corsair might do what WindRider has done - offer an accessory bowsprit and screecher sail to those that want it. I think they'd find that enough do want it to make it worthwhile to design, make and offer as an accessory.

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KBC - Check your email re Nationals and get back to me off-line. They seem to have listened to you. Talk of demo boats and a Pulse.

 

All - Don't understand you guys with all the talk of traps and bowsprits. It all just adds cost and complexity and scares away a significant segment of the sailing market (that could be racing w us).

 

If I just want to daysail my tri I really don't care if I am going 10 knots or 11.5 knots SOG. Ian designed a great boat in the original F27 (pin head main, no sprit). OK sure the formula version F27F with square top main, double spreader rig, bow sprit, screecher, checkstays, rudder fence, and stern extension is a slight bit faster (check the PHRF ratings) but really for daysailing who cares? For rating racing, if fairly rated (OK good luck achieving fair wide band multihull rating system), who cares. All it did was add a lot of cost, make it less user friendly, and take a lot of players out of what was a good OD game.

 

I suggest that with all these tweaks and improvements (yes, I admit they are improvements), all you are doing is keeping the "engineers" happy, and pricing out or scaring off many "sailors." The trimaran segment is maybe small because its maybe populated with folks that are perhaps more into engineering and tweaking than the sailing. Biggest class is likely A cats which is in terms of weekend warriers an engineers dream. But I would rather race a Laser at what - 1/20th the price - and since is more accessible and user friendly we have huge fleets everywhere.

 

Did the Weta get traction in the trimaran class because it has a sprit, and a trap, and its the highest tech, coolest, latest thing? Or did it get traction and build numbers because it was affordable, user friendly, and had a manuacturer and dealer network that supported OD racing?

 

I am hoping Corsair produces a boat (and aggressively manages a class at the manufacturer and dealer level) that is equally as affordable (ie max the bang for buck factor), and user friendly. I hope it appeals to monohullers sailing Albergs, Cal 25s (because it can be easily trailered anywhere and still OD with half the crew), to dinghy and Weta sailors (because it can OD, trailer easy, AND take the whole family out daysailing), and multihullers like me who want an affordable, easily trailered boat that will have OD fleets filled with folks that want to sail and OD race and not play rating games, do endless engineering tweaks that drive up cost and complexity and kill the OD concept... nevermind and scare off the huge portion of sailors that has never been and never will get in a trap or care about foil selection.

 

I have a dream... :)

These are all great points. The last paragraph in particular.

 

Yes, if Corsair can break with their tradition of near-zero class support and constantly tweaking designs that make One Design impossible, then there will be a great start and future for the Pulse class.

I guess I could give up the sprit and big chute for 20+ boats on the line!

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Wess,

 

All good points, but think offering the boat without a sprit is a mistake. Even people who are just going to buy the boat for knocking about still want to look racy, and nothing says racy like a nice bowsprit. With the size of the P600 it really doesn't have to be any more complicated than the Weta. Just a hole molded in the bow to stick the sprit into. No bolts, no side stays, no dolphin striker, just a pole you slide in if you want to run a kite or screacher. The difference between that and what they have now is really just a hole in the hull and a pole. Maybe Corsair offers it as an option and boats without it just have a plug covering the hole.

 

Offering two different boats, like a P600R with longer mast, sprit, and different foils, is also a mistake IMO. It just ensures that anyone who bought the non-R version won't race (they'll just get killed by the R version). The Weta guys got this right by having a single boat with no variations.

 

Of course I am an engineer, so I'm probably over thinking it. On the other hand I've bought 3 tris in the last 7 years, so I'm probably the kind of person Corsair needs to think about marketing to. Why don't they ever call me?

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Wess - my only talks about traps is that one of the premises for the boat's existence being that folks who are too worn out from trapezing will want a boat like this. My point is once you go trap you never go back - it's not a compelling part of the market. People who are afraid of trying the trap, maybe (I was that way once, until I found the one true path...). Obviously exceptions exist. Just adding counterpoint to those who claim we need rescuing from trapezes. Does this boat need them? No. Could still be fun. And maybe more comfortable... ;-)

 

You and I might disagree on the things needed to make one happy if they are just day sailing or strict OD racing. I'd say the things you say aren't needed maybe are. But I think we're at the point of agreeing to disagree on that.

 

But, the bow sprit. Looking back again at the drawings of the boat, I would say it needs a sprit - not because all the cool kids have one but because to me the sail plan looks like it should have one. But I'm not a sail maker/rig designer... Looks like there's a furling kite on it (which obviously could be swapped even on the water for a furling whatever if you wanted to buy more sails). But my thing is this - there is minimal distance between the tack of the 3rd sail and the forestay. It appears to overlap the main a bunch then if you have any sail area. Also, you won't be able to jibe that sail without furling it (unless you go around the front instead of between the 3rd sail luff and forestay). No chance at all for double slotting it.

 

My completely uneducated guess is that the first person that opens that up by putting the tack out on a sprit might see some benefit. Randy will do it, and Finishline will then offer a kit. People will then lobby to make a Pulse 600 Formula. It's obviously being left off for simplicity sake, or to maybe make it look like those cool ocean tris with the long main bow. So, if I were racing it and rules said I couldn't have one, OK, but I'd add one for day sailing, and might long for the day when one was legal... May as well start out with one to avoid the class squabbles later... Devil's Advocate speaking...

 

And affordable/value is indeed relative.

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Hi all,

 

Wess, I have a dream too.

 

I have to say, there are not many things in life more awesome, enjoyable and fun that being trapped out, while powered-up going fast, windward hull skipping the water, going to a not so distance destination. Even better to be with family or friends while doing this and being able to go even further.

 

Call it obsession or addiction; trapping out does that to you. Please try it again.

 

I actually would race without the trap if it was not class legal. However, I would want it for day sailing fun.

 

Would adding trapezes increase the price of a 600 by more that a couple of hundred bucks?

 

Cheers, vaplaya

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