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Corsair Pulse 600

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Of course I am an engineer, so I'm probably over thinking it. On the other hand I've bought 3 tris in the last 7 years, so I'm probably the kind of person Corsair needs to think about marketing to. Why don't they ever call me?

 

Why, indeed. Have you checked your signature block lately?

 

Yeah, I'm a little rough on boats. Shockingly, my F24 and Weta seem to have broken my current record of f'ing up just about every boat I've ever been on or owned. If Corsair would like to give me a P600 for a month or so (in the middle of summer here in SF), I'd be more than happy to point out any weak spots.

 

Great thread! See we can have nice things!

 

That being said, would anyone like to setup a poll to make it easy for Corsair to figure out if the P600 should have a sprit? I'd do it but I'm too stupid.

 

Possible Format:

 

Should the Corsair Pulse 600 Have a Bowsprit

 

1) What? Are you kidding! It fucking well better!

2) It would be nice

3) I could go sprit-less and be happy.

4) The boat is perfect as is and I hate sprits. Build 'em, sell 'em, count the cash.

 

If we don't tell the manufacturers want we want, they have to guess. And more often than not, they get it wrong.

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Of course I am an engineer, so I'm probably over thinking it. On the other hand I've bought 3 tris in the last 7 years, so I'm probably the kind of person Corsair needs to think about marketing to. Why don't they ever call me?

 

Why, indeed. Have you checked your signature block lately?

Yeah, I'm a little rough on boats. Shockingly, my F24 and Weta seem to have broken my current record of f'ing up just about every boat I've ever been on or owned. If Corsair would like to give me a P600 for a month or so (in the middle of summer here in SF), I'd be more than happy to point out any weak spots.

 

Great thread! See we can have nice things!

 

That being said, would anyone like to setup a poll to make it easy for Corsair to figure out if the P600 should have a sprit? I'd do it but I'm too stupid.

 

Possible Format:

 

Should the Corsair Pulse 600 Have a Bowsprit

 

1) What? Are you kidding! It fucking well better!

2) It would be nice

3) I could go sprit-less and be happy.

4) The boat is perfect as is and I hate sprits. Build 'em, sell 'em, count the cash.

 

If we don't tell the manufacturers want we want, they have to guess. And more often than not, they get it wrong.

I suggest adding one for Wess:

 

5) if you add a sprit I'm buying a Snipe

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With the size of the P600 (a sprit) doesn't have to be any more complicated than the Weta. Just a hole molded in the bow to stick the sprit into. No bolts, no side stays, no dolphin striker, just a pole you slide in if you want to run a kite or screacher. The difference between that and what they have now is really just a hole in the hull and a pole. Maybe Corsair offers it as an option and boats without it just have a plug covering the hole.

This is the solution. Offer two versions, both with the receptacle for the sprit. The R version can come with the Sprit and three or four sails. The C or DS version can come with two sails and a plug for the sprit receptacle. No other differences. The OD racing will be in the R version. A C or DS version can be easily converted by buying a sprit and one or two sails.

 

Voila....

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Of course I am an engineer, so I'm probably over thinking it. On the other hand I've bought 3 tris in the last 7 years, so I'm probably the kind of person Corsair needs to think about marketing to. Why don't they ever call me?

Why, indeed. Have you checked your signature block lately?

Yeah, I'm a little rough on boats. Shockingly, my F24 and Weta seem to have broken my current record of f'ing up just about every boat I've ever been on or owned. If Corsair would like to give me a P600 for a month or so (in the middle of summer here in SF), I'd be more than happy to point out any weak spots.

 

Great thread! See we can have nice things!

 

That being said, would anyone like to setup a poll to make it easy for Corsair to figure out if the P600 should have a sprit? I'd do it but I'm too stupid.

 

Possible Format:

 

Should the Corsair Pulse 600 Have a Bowsprit

 

1) What? Are you kidding! It fucking well better!

2) It would be nice

3) I could go sprit-less and be happy.

4) The boat is perfect as is and I hate sprits. Build 'em, sell 'em, count the cash.

 

If we don't tell the manufacturers want we want, they have to guess. And more often than not, they get it wrong.

I suggest adding one for Wess:

 

5) if you add a sprit I'm buying a Snipe

OK, I see what's happening here. If I beat you in the last race of the year I gotta put up w abusive KBC the whole winter till you get another go at me on the water! B) Look, its OK. Come out in a Laser to tomorrow and kick my ass. You got me in a trap. When do I get to see you deal with some hiking my fellow old fat man. :D Fair is fair. Forecast calls for reasonably light so we might make it around without swimming. :P

 

As for the rest of you knuckleheads, are you are maybe missing a key point w the poll??

 

My point is that its NOT about you, me or anyone on this thread. Because those of us on the thread already sail multis and clearly we have done a great job of getting boats and building classes that have broad appeal because there are so many successful multihull classes that have fleets of 10 plus everywhere, that bring out families and the class keep going and going year after year like the Snipe. :blink: Oh wait there are none. Folks, you, me... we can't even pull 10 multis for a rating race; nevermind OD. The folks that you need to make this boat and an OD multihulls class be successful don't even know this boat or this thread exists.

 

At least in my neck of the woods the poll should be aimed at Alberg, Cal 25, J105, J70, Snipe, Laser, Lightning, Weta, etc... sailors (you know, the folks NOT on this thread and NOT in our boats), because that is where you find sailors that want to OD race and where you find kids and families. If you don't find a way to interest them all you are doing is further diluting the existing pool of multihull sailors and attracting a few new bearded hippies or engineers from the fringe. You will never build a sustainable OD class that way.

 

Anyway, all said w affection for my fellow multihullers and in fun. But, if you can convince KBC to come sail and race a Laser in a popcorn death match tomorrow - convince him to leave his armchair, beer and TV... somebody has got to film it in a GoPro. Fewest capsizes wins!

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Shit wess, that must be the best description of the multi cohort I have ever read.

 

Not wrong though, and the way to get the mono of bunch interested is by setting up the whole package from the get go. Regattas with full social program for partners and kids. Masters divisions, youth divisions, mixed crew, all that gear. Group bookings for regatta accommodation, so it's cheap and everyone is together. It will need to be a pretty solid thing to outweigh that beardy engineer stereotype

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I am the guy you are looking for. I started racing in the Hobie class in the mid 70's until the mid 80's and learned the value of 1 design racing. After the Hobie fleets began to fade away, I moved to the Flying Scot and have been sailing it for the last 30 years and had tons of fun. The Flying Scot is heavy, outdated and slow, but it is family friendly, easy to sail, comfortable, and ONE DESIGN. Sure there are plenty of simple and inexpensive things that would make the Flying Scot a better boat, but it would kill level racing so those things are prohibited for the benefit of the class. My first love was multihulls, and for the first time, I see the 600 as a real possibility to get back to them. I personally don't really care whether or not there is a sprit, but for its own good and for the good of the class, they better decide what it is going to be before the 1st boat hits the water and resist the temptation to muck with it. Once it is out, don't change it. If they do with the 600 what they did with the F-24/750 and have 5+ different versions, that kill any possibility of one design racing, then I am out and will not consider a 600.

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HI All,

 

Somehow the Weta seems to be accomplishing what we are talking about here. In the US with racers and in other countries (NZ, OZ) with racers and family (check out WetaFest NZ video

) . Although I have seen it evolved, I am not sure what is the recipe to make it work.

 

OD Cool boat, marketing with active social media presence, factory support, dealer support, etc.

 

Cheers, vaplaya

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that's settled it for me, a snipe, actually im a tri sailer, so I'd better get three a bolt them together, :D

enjoy the slow boat,and race a centuries worth of other slow boats,if that's your thing,

but the reason I sail multi's is they go fast, and present a challenge in doing so, also the reason I mostly singlehand mine.

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Wess,

 

In an earlier post, you mentioned the J-70 as a model of modern OD success.

 

.............the J-70 has a sprit! :o

 

Just sayin. ;)

 

-MH

 

oh man you beat me to it!

 

But again, for this boat, I don't think it's a wonky bearded engineer type of question. I really think the a-sail is too close to the forestay. Looks like what you do on a big Hunter for the mono cruisers. This looks like it will be a fast boat. Might get exciting for the wrong reasons. And it would take some fun from single handing as well.

 

Hey Weta guys - tell me what the close OD downwind action would be like if you had to furl your a-sail for every jibe especially in a blow? Give it a try at your next regatta and tell us if it's a not a pain. If it isn't I'll eat crow and shut up.

 

I guess I get the whole if a boat sucks to sail it doesn't matter because we're all sailing the same sucky boats argument for OD racing. But why not have an OD boat that doesn't suck to sail? So much looks so good about this boat, that part doesn't. If the bow were extended and there was enough room, I'd say who cares about the sprit. But it doesn't look to be the case. I'm not making the argument of a sprit for sprit's sake.

 

I don't think the J-70 guys would like it if you want them as converts. I don't think anybody that's sailed a spin on a beach cat (or a Weta) would like it if you want them for converts. I don't think E-Scow sailors would like it if you want them for converts. Anybody coming from a sym spin mono might think it's cool, because they don't have to jibe the spin pole anymore.

 

Wess - I promise that if you get me out on the Laser course I will wear my helmet with the GoPro mounted on it!

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A sprit on a J-70 or a Weta. Wow, I never knew. Oh man, next you will tell me that the Melges 20 does not have winches.

 

It ain't about the sprit guys. ;)

 

Forecast is looking up tomorrow KBC...

 

And for gosh sakes, shave the beard off!!

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To be clear the part I don't they would like is having to furl to jibe, not whether there is a sprit.

 

Wess - Sick wife and kids with birthday parties may keep my feet dry tomorrow.

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Set it up and sell it like the Weta: a sprit and three sails including the furling gennaker. That keeps it simple for OD and newbs, fun and fast. There are plenty of relatively inexperienced sailors that have bought wetas and 3 sail singlehand them. The Pulse 600 can be a bigger, badder Weta that you can take the family or friends and a cooler full of beer on but still singlehand.

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What we are seeing here is a classic case of why things cannot (and should not) be designed by committee.

 

Yes, you need to understand your market, and yes the customer does have to be consulted - but only to a point.

 

After that you need to understand that compromises will have to be made.

 

There is too much discussion here about prodders, and screechers, and one design and tolerance and base model versus race model etc.

 

Consider that it is not possible to be all things to all men. It is not reasonable for those wanting high end performance to get the whole package for a bargain basement price.

 

Remember where beneteau were in the 80's - everything they designed was a cruiser racer - OK if they were only exposed to summer med breezes - but as soon as someone raced them in real anger in harsh conditions, they literally crumpled under pressure.

Bendy toys was for real. The deck hardware was woeful, the rope/line packages were all bargain basement items.

All the talk was about great entry price - but you basically had to throw all the standard gear way and refit the boat from new - not so cheap after all.

 

Back to the Corsair Pulse - this is not a company with a background in high tech performance products.

They are in a market sector that has natural sportiness because it is a multihull, not because their multihulls are high end variants.

The Pulse has enormous merit, at a time when people are looking for good value boating, and a high bang for your buck, the pulse will have a lot of positive attributes.

 

It will be a perfect entry point for new sailors, or existing sailors new to multihulls. Corsair would also be hopeful that a pulse owner will eventually upsize through their own range - before we can all afford our own Gunboat.

 

All features after this core attribute of sportiness are secondary - but remember that for multihulls, weight, platform rigidity, and overall power (or performance) are directly related to cost on an exponential scale.

 

The point being that if you want a screecher - you are taking the product into a price point that defeats the intial brief - and then ask yourself, is the boat actually going to be a good One design platform?

 

Lots of multihulls are designed for the charter/hire market - private sales are secondary, as is the need for performance goodies.

12 pulses lined up on the beach at the Phucket waiting to give newly weds upright, quick sailing in warm water with a few drinks seems to be a good sales pitch for everyone, Corsair, the resort, the new husband etc etc.

 

I just do not expect a carbon flyer with all the fruit for $40K - if it is a flyer then it will be too skittish for family outings, if it is too heavy then every boy racer will complain. That's the devil in the detail of compromise.

 

Lets hope that it looks like its render, price stays down and weight does also.

If the price list is bare boat for X - but by the time you add sails, trailer and basic gear the price is actually 2 times X then it will fail...

 

People who want to jazz it up with extra gear can get consensus (Ha!) here......

 

 

 

 

 

 

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The Pulse is shown with a screecher. It would be nice if they could create a bit more distance between it and the forestay with a short fixed sprit. Cruiser or racer, you would prefer not to furl before gybing as you are just creating extra work and slowing down the boat. It looks like they furl on the Diam 24 before gybing however that is with 3 people on board going pretty hard.

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What we are seeing here is a classic case of why things cannot (and should not) be designed by committee.

 

Yes, you need to understand your market, and yes the customer does have to be consulted - but only to a point.

 

After that you need to understand that compromises will have to be made.

 

There is too much discussion here about prodders, and screechers, and one design and tolerance and base model versus race model etc.

 

Consider that it is not possible to be all things to all men. It is not reasonable for those wanting high end performance to get the whole package for a bargain basement price.

 

Remember where beneteau were in the 80's - everything they designed was a cruiser racer - OK if they were only exposed to summer med breezes - but as soon as someone raced them in real anger in harsh conditions, they literally crumpled under pressure.

Bendy toys was for real. The deck hardware was woeful, the rope/line packages were all bargain basement items.

All the talk was about great entry price - but you basically had to throw all the standard gear way and refit the boat from new - not so cheap after all.

 

Back to the Corsair Pulse - this is not a company with a background in high tech performance products.

They are in a market sector that has natural sportiness because it is a multihull, not because their multihulls are high end variants.

The Pulse has enormous merit, at a time when people are looking for good value boating, and a high bang for your buck, the pulse will have a lot of positive attributes.

 

It will be a perfect entry point for new sailors, or existing sailors new to multihulls. Corsair would also be hopeful that a pulse owner will eventually upsize through their own range - before we can all afford our own Gunboat.

 

All features after this core attribute of sportiness are secondary - but remember that for multihulls, weight, platform rigidity, and overall power (or performance) are directly related to cost on an exponential scale.

 

The point being that if you want a screecher - you are taking the product into a price point that defeats the intial brief - and then ask yourself, is the boat actually going to be a good One design platform?

 

Lots of multihulls are designed for the charter/hire market - private sales are secondary, as is the need for performance goodies.

12 pulses lined up on the beach at the Phucket waiting to give newly weds upright, quick sailing in warm water with a few drinks seems to be a good sales pitch for everyone, Corsair, the resort, the new husband etc etc.

 

I just do not expect a carbon flyer with all the fruit for $40K - if it is a flyer then it will be too skittish for family outings, if it is too heavy then every boy racer will complain. That's the devil in the detail of compromise.

 

Lets hope that it looks like its render, price stays down and weight does also.

If the price list is bare boat for X - but by the time you add sails, trailer and basic gear the price is actually 2 times X then it will fail...

 

People who want to jazz it up with extra gear can get consensus (Ha!) here......

I like this Boink guy/gal.

 

KBC - Got ya. Looks like more than the feet get soggy. Having trouble getting motivated myself at the moment. I like days w air tems in the 10sF, snow and ice. I like days in the 40/50s w 12 knots and flat water. But cold rain, unstable air (4-25), and lumpy seas...

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What we are seeing here is a classic case of why things cannot (and should not) be designed by committee.

 

 

 

Hi Boink, I hate to disagree but, yes they kind of do. Companies use focus groups and development teams.

 

 

I am really confused!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why is it so complicated to add a Weta style sprit and trapeze wires?

 

If I have to furl to jibe, I may not be interested. I have enough problems gibing on my Weta. In fact, the sprit make even rigging the Weta actually simpler.

 

Cheers!

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Vaplaya... He (Boink) did not say they don't use groups to aid in design issues, he said, THEY SHOULDN'T. The baby Corsair does not have those things you want, at present, because they don't want them. Obviously, there are other design goals to be met that do not include the gear you want....

 

Take a long look at a thread that went down on these pages a brief time ago (Crowd Think/Crowd Funded Trimaran project) and you will see how all over the map things got for what was supposed to be a simple boat with simple objectives. That goofy mashup was exactly why committee design systems are not functionally effective.

 

Personally, I like what is being done here by Corsair and wish them well in their efforts. They are looking to produce an affordable, entry-level multihull that sends owners off in the direction of their more developed products and it is the precise element that has always been missing from the mix. No lifting foils, no extraneous sails, or handling gear, no complications, just a simple, straight-forward, easy to sail boat that gets more folks out on the water as participants in a death spiral sport that needs a shot of hope in order to avoid an ugly crash into the ground.

 

Now, if you, or any of your buddies want to jazz-up the Pulse a bit, after the fact, it looks to me that there might just be a truly nifty, accessory market about to be hitting the marinas of this planet and you could be riding that wave to some comfortable cash flow. No committees involved in the design, no misdirected middle men to snatch the profits out from under you. Jump on it.

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Boink,

 

You make many valid points. But let's consider this: Given the current P600 layout and one with the proposed sprit (P600S let's call it), which would you prefer to sail? Which would be easier to handle? Which would be better in mixed fleets? Is the sprit version more complicated?

 

For me, the P600S is going to be faster, easier to gybe, and doesn't add a bit of complexity. It would obviously do better in mixed fleets with a wider downwind range. Whether you're racing the boat or just banging around with the kids and a cooler of snacks, there is zero downside. The Weta is a prime example. Nobody would consider taking the sprit off a Weta and tacking the screacher to the bow to make it more friendly to novice sailors. Would they? Of course not, it makes no sense.

 

If Corsair is trying to reach as broad a market as possibly, then they must not have considered guys like me (and others) who like to race and won't consider the boat unless it has what every other modern sportboat/multi has shown to be a well sorted layout. That would of course include a sprit.

 

The downside for Corsair is that instead of having a boat that appeals to racing and casual sailors, you have a boat that only embraces one of those group, thus limiting the market. Why would they do that?

 

I'm not asking Corsair to build a boat in this price range with carbon hulls, ama mounted rudders, a carbon mast, an ungodly big sail plan, carbon foils, double-ended everything, and all manner of high-tech rigging. We all understand the cost/tech tradeoff. But no sprit? C'mon, that's just plain retarded.

 

"Your Honor, ladies and gentlemen of the sailing jury, with all the evidence and testimony brought before you in this case, I think you'll find that Corsair, and its agents, acted with willful malice and extreme neglect in designing the P600 without a sprit. A heinous, cowardly act of wanton disregard against the sailing community and the entire human race. We cannot allow this injustice to go unanswered! I ask only that you use your God given common sense and find for the plaintiff in this matter. I ask you to return a verdict, against the defendant Corsair, of Spriticide in the First Degree. Thank you. I rest my case."

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KBC - Oh man what a day you missed on the water. Had a little bit of everything. Glad I got my butt off the couch.

 

All - What on earth is all this about furl to gybe? Holy jump to unsupported conclusions Batman! First off, I have inside gybed my F27F chute with the furled screecher hoisted (smaller slot than w the Pulse). Second, when did an outside gybe become a sin?

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Another point that must be considered on this matter is that before large fleets are built, Corsair must sell enough $40,000 boats to get the model on the market in various locations around the world.

 

I doubt a novice sailor would buy such a boat with out already seeing other boats on the water. So the dilemma for Corsair is to find a market for the first 20-30 boats that can then transition into a bigger market of 100-300 boats.

 

The Multi23 did not get the original market correct and have not sold enough to get market penetration. They should have incorporated a folding solution and a daggerboard. From what I see most Multi23 have been sold to experienced sailors that were prepared to assemble boats each time they sail or moor them up.

 

Due to loyal customers, the F22 will develop an initial market penetration but the price is probably too high and too many options for an OD market. If Farrier is going to be successful with the F22 OD racer it will need to get the price right down with all the extras stripped out.

 

Provided the P600 sails okay, the it has a real potential for good market penetration but it must suit the first 20-30 buyers. The first 20-30 buyers will mostly be previous yacht (trimaran) owners that are either upsizing from a Weta or similar or downsizing but want a new boat. They don't want a novice boat but something the will be compatible with their capability.

 

My opinion remains sell the boat as a base boat, 2 sails and no spit for absolute cheapest cost. Offer and an option a racing kit which include 1-2 extra sails and a spit. The racing kit is for OD racing. The guys that race would be happy pay the $5k for a racing kit. Those the cruise only don't need to buy the kit.

 

As Ian Farrier says very few trimarans are actually raced anyway. Look at Weta too. They have sold over 1000 boats but I guess less than 200 race.

 

My wish is that Ian Farrier would release a F22OD boat at less than $50k sailaway and make it available in 2016. Other manufacturers can achieve this price and Ian certainly smart enough to configure such a boat.

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KBC - Oh man what a day you missed on the water. Had a little bit of everything. Glad I got my butt off the couch.

 

All - What on earth is all this about furl to gybe? Holy jump to unsupported conclusions Batman! First off, I have inside gybed my F27F chute with the furled screecher hoisted (smaller slot than w the Pulse). Second, when did an outside gybe become a sin?

 

Wess - instead I took my littlest to a Bday party featuring a "fashion show". Did find a good little barbecue shop on Kent Island. Not as good as sailing, but that must have been a little bit rain soaked.

 

There are a lot of things I've done that I don't choose to do again. Tell us about jibing between the spin and your furled screacher - would you like to do that for every jibe? In a blow? How long would your spin last? Outside jibe not a sin but not the norm anymore either IMO, but would be almost required in this case again IMO.

 

I thought we were going for easy to handle here. It still looks a little close to me. Again, I'm willing to be proven wrong, but that's the way it looks from the published sail plan. I'm also of the opinion that having it in close like that will have it act more like the main as far as it wanting to lever/drive the bow in. But again, these are opinions based on study of what has been published, not real world sailing of it.

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Rigging in the rain was not fun but there were about 20 other wet sailors so we shared the misery.

 

The racing was so fun I honestly don't know if it was raining. It had quit by the time we came back to the dock (air rowing from mid harbor... UGH). You would have loved one race. Port tack pin end start favored. Expecting a big rightly but will play the hand that got dealt. Could not quite pull it but was furthest towards pin on starboard but slightly late w boat on windward hip pinning me. Really good HS racer 60 lbs lighter. Damn! Did manage to pinch him off, tacked to port and crossed fleet. Two consolidation/cover tacks later at layline, overstood a bit to make sure and first to WW mark with many right on my heels. Held the lead 3/4 of leeward leg when fleet captain got inside me. Side by side we surfed to leeward mark when she death rolled in about 10 boats from it. Yea, back to lead. Round and look up wind and see its starting to get lighter but think this could be a gun for the fat boy in the radial. About 20 boats from finish it goes real soft and the HS kid closes in. He gets me and crosses about 3 boat lengths ahead. Its gets sooo soft and goes dead and I can't even get across. Ugh; sh*t!! Look around and see breeze filling in behind me making the upwind finish a downwind finish. The whole dang fleet is coming and I am stuck not moving wallowing in the left over big waves. I just barely get enough breeze and sneak over in 2nd before they all get there. That was pretty much my day. Needed head on a swivel. It might have been raining skittles and I would never have known! Love OD but I gotta lose 35 lbs to be in the game. Would be a healthy thing so good incentive.

 

Do tell on the KI BBQ shack. Kids starting flight school over there so I might be looking for a spot.

 

Interesting thoughts on the chute. Have no issue at all w outside gybes. Been there done that have the T-shirt. My main concern w inside gybing the F27 chute w screecher hoisted (I think you have seen me do it is the very narrow slot at the head. Other than that; its not an issue.

 

Mr, Hyde may be able to confirm of refute. I think he is in San Fran where I think I was told there are a fleet of F27s where many have asym chute flown from bow (no sprits) and they have no issue gybing. This is second hand so may be incorrect info. Heading out to dinner w wifey sans kids so too lazy to search.

 

Cheers,

 

Wess

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Speaking of the published sail plan- The spin is listed at 215 sq. ft. (20 sq. mtrs.) which is incredibly small! For comparison the multi23 kite is 484 sq. ft. (45 sq. mtrs.)

They must be talking about a screacher instead of a spin!

 

I hope they are not planning on using a sail that small as the only downwind sail.

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$33k USD ex factory with 3 sails, so yes they are, its a 6m entry level boat, if you want a multi 23, buy a multi 23.

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I would love a Multi23 IF it was a folder. I've been waiting for something to replace my Sprint with and I think the Pulse has alot of potential. I just hope they don't water down the performance too much while trying to make it "entry level". From what I can see of the hull shapes, this thing has the float bouyancy to hold a much bigger spin than 20 sq. mtrs.

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Mr, Hyde may be able to confirm of refute. I think he is in San Fran where I think I was told there are a fleet of F27s where many have asym chute flown from bow (no sprits) and they have no issue gybing.

 

There may have been years ago, but all the current F27's run asyms on a pole or syms from the amas. I'm only speaking of the race boats. I've seen cruising boats rigged with asyms on the bow, which makes sense when you don't really care how fast you can gybe and have open water. Anyone with an asym on the bow and an ATN snuffer, on the other hand, is to be avoided like the plague on the race course.

 

As far as outside gybes go. I've heard some monohull people seem to prefer outsides when it's really blowing hard. Not sure why. We've tried it both ways on the F27 and F25C, usually by accidentally rigging the tack wrong. IMO inside gybes are safer and faster.

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Okay, so an outside jibe might not be ideal but maybe that is Corsair's plan. What's to prevent the lazy sheet from going over the bow and into the drink on the Pulse?

 

TIA

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I would love a Multi23 IF it was a folder. I've been waiting for something to replace my Sprint with and I think the Pulse has alot of potential. I just hope they don't water down the performance too much while trying to make it "entry level". From what I can see of the hull shapes, this thing has the float bouyancy to hold a much bigger spin than 20 sq. mtrs.

I think a sprint would be a better boat all day. Pulse would be the love child of a weta - sprint - weta orgy.

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Sprint is a good boat. It's a jack of all trades. I sold it about 3 years ago due to time constraints. I never used the cabin for camping and feel that hauling that interior around was kind of pointless. 30 year old design philosophy also hurt performance.

 

I'm hoping the pulse is uncorked enough to satisfy my need for speed while downsizing a bit.

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Okay, so an outside jibe might not be ideal but maybe that is Corsair's plan. What's to prevent the lazy sheet from going over the bow and into the drink on the Pulse?

 

TIA

As is usually the case, the nut on the end of the tiller, along with the various other nut-jobs on board is responsible for that.

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Okay, so an outside jibe might not be ideal but maybe that is Corsair's plan. What's to prevent the lazy sheet from going over the bow and into the drink on the Pulse?

 

TIA

As is usually the case, the nut on the end of the tiller, along with the various other nut-jobs on board is responsible for that.

Ah, ease of handling for new sailors!

 

In the sail plan the sail is a spinnaker, and the picture clearly shows a spinnaker shape and a furler. I've never used a furling spin, would it it be ok with the sheets configured for an outside jibe?

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Do tell on the KI BBQ shack. Kids starting flight school over there so I might be looking for a spot.

 

Cheers,

 

Wess

Called "It's the Pits" in Stevensville. Had a cup of seafood gumbo, and their barbecue brisket "sundae", and got some ribs for later. Pretty good, local not a chain.

 

Flying lessons! That's awesome!

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My wish is that Ian Farrier would release a F22OD boat at less than $50k sailaway and make it available in 2016. Other manufacturers can achieve this price and Ian certainly smart enough to configure such a boat.

 

I would not count on it!!!

 

I love Ian's designs, however I watched the F22 development on-line for years believing that it was going to be a ~$40K boat and my next boat. When the numbers finally came out it was north of $70K. Too different from the initial intent and too rich for me.

 

My interest is now on the Pulse. I really hope this is the boat.

 

Cheers!!

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Do tell on the KI BBQ shack. Kids starting flight school over there so I might be looking for a spot.

 

Cheers,

 

Wess

Called "It's the Pits" in Stevensville. Had a cup of seafood gumbo, and their barbecue brisket "sundae", and got some ribs for later. Pretty good, local not a chain.

 

Flying lessons! That's awesome!

Thanks.

 

I don't want to get into the other thing on-line. Trying to influence a decision. The eldest you have seen helming appears intent on passing up free ivy for a different shade of green (grey actually) at the South Hudson Institute of Technology if you catch my drift. Hoping I can convince the ballet dancer to wear the blue and orange of the puddle pirates instead of green and perhaps someday she will pilot the helo that pluck some poor fool from the drink (after a failed outside gybe dooms them all :P ).

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Okay, so an outside jibe might not be ideal but maybe that is Corsair's plan. What's to prevent the lazy sheet from going over the bow and into the drink on the Pulse?

 

TIA

 

That's usually the big concern, but as you start the gybe, even if the lazy sheet (about to be the new sheet) is in the water, the clew of the kite tend to pick it up out of the drink as it goes around the front. if there isn't too much slack. If there is too much slack, then the sheet has already gone under the boat and wrapped around something it's not suppose to wrap around. If the kite collapses all over the front of the boat during the gybe, god only knows where the sheets will end up.

 

Inside gybes can go just as wrong if the lazy sheet (formally the working sheet) whips around on the front of the boat. Our usual modus de fuckup is having the lazy sheet wrap around a bow cleat or in the jib furler or all over the bow pulpit or on a jib hank (to name a few). That only happens rarely since the skipper is usually sitting on the lazy sheet preventing the kite from going around the front in the first place and splattering the kite all over the windward side of the boat. At that point we really aren't to concerned about the sheets anyway.

 

Pick your poison. I prefer the lazy sheets wrapped around something I can get at instead of under the boat. Controlling the release of the sheets is essential to a good inside or outside gybe. Nothing new there.

 

I have never tried an outside gybe with a furling kite/code/screacher. I can easily see how the lazy sheet could get rolled into the kite as it is furled causing a clusterfuck of galactic proportions, or better, preventing the kite from furling at all. That could be fun with an approaching lee shore. No problem, just unfurl the kite and try again. Probably wrap it around the furler going the other way. I'll give it a try the next time I sail my Weta. Not sure if the single, continuous kite sheet is long enough though. Worth a try, might learn something new and super gucci. I'm not going the try to gybe or tack with the jib rigged outside. That's just stupid.

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Looking at the prodless Diam 24, it seems to have more relative distance than the Corsair renderings

However watch Diam's gybing on YouTube, you will see them furling before gybing.

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Okay, so an outside jibe might not be ideal but maybe that is Corsair's plan. What's to prevent the lazy sheet from going over the bow and into the drink on the Pulse?

 

TIA

As is usually the case, the nut on the end of the tiller, along with the various other nut-jobs on board is responsible for that.

Ah, ease of handling for new sailors!

 

In the sail plan the sail is a spinnaker, and the picture clearly shows a spinnaker shape and a furler. I've never used a furling spin, would it it be ok with the sheets configured for an outside jibe?

Sorry I missed this KBC.

 

Outside gybes really are easy. No better or worse than inside. Maybe a tad slower but also easier on the crew and chute (IMO).

 

Hey, but you get that I don't speak for Corsair, right? I am just here for the ride with the rest of y'all. Would guess that if its a furling chute, that they are convinced that it can be inside gybed or maybe it is furl to gybe (ala our Balt Back screecher run).

 

We all have our pet peeves. For me the need for good racing is a priority over my need for speed. Will pick decent turn of speed and great racing over the lastest greatest hyper-engineered squeeze out the last 1/10th of a knot high priced glamor machine. I would be all over a multihull that came w/ great racing and decent turn of speed if it also comes with ability to daysail the family, trailer easy, and an affordable price. THAT would be unique and why the Pulse got my attention.

 

Alas, good racing is not exactly Corsair's (or Farrier's or Dragonfly's or anyone else in the segment's) forte. Wish they were J-boats but that wish and a dime will get me nowhere. I will take it seriously when I see a Corsair OD rep w a boat they race and office in Newport, Annapolis, San Diego, San Francisco, and Chicago, along with a 5 year plan to support an OD Pulse class. Think about it. If Steve, Bob, Don and an Annapolis and Newport rep all agreed to enter the various east coast NOODs and one or two other races that time out pretty nicey and get you a ton of exposure and you already have a large enough group for an OD start. Critical mass begets others. Tell me that if you knew that for 5 years there were enough Corsair reps committed that there would be starts at St Pete, Annapolis, Marblehead... throw in Pensy Nationals and Charleston... Inside or outside gybes, furling or not, screecher or not would it really matter to you? Pick it up for less than $40K, easy trailering, daysail the family at home and great racing. Is that not heaven?

 

But I am guessing the numbers/margins don't support that, and the goal is more like what Boink described in #216. And if so for OD to happen it would have to be purely owner driven and the history suggests that's not a priority for the current group of trimaran converts. So I keep my Laser.

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Looking at the prodless Diam 24, it seems to have more relative distance than the Corsair renderings

However watch Diam's gybing on YouTube, you will see them furling before gybing.

 

I had looked at several but never found a jibe. But thanks.

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For contrast - Nacra - 20 sail areas: Main = 206, jib = 50, spin = 269. Pulse: main = 184, jib = 80, spin = 215.

I understand you are quoting 20" boats however thought I might include the F18 into the comparison as well.

 

Pulse sail areas: Main = 184, jib = 80, spin = 215. Total upwind = 264. Total all = 479

F18 sail areas: Main = 180, jib = 44.7, spin = 230. Total upwind = 224.7. Total all = 454.7

Nacra 20 sail areas: Main = 206, jib = 50, spin = 269. Total upwind = 256. Total all = 525

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Looking at the prodless Diam 24, it seems to have more relative distance than the Corsair renderings

 

However watch Diam's gybing on YouTube, you will see them furling before gybing.

I had looked at several but never found a jibe. But thanks.

 

 

Check out @ 41 seconds. Looks like a furling gybe but I may be wrong. It does not show enough to be conclusive.

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This is I know, sprit or no sprit, a Weta without the "Screecher" would only be half the boat it is. That 3rd sail gives you a ton of options you wouldn't have without it. If it costs $1000 to $1500 to double the value of the boat, it's something worth considering.

 

If the Pulse ends up being delivered without that 3rd sail, or without the option of that 3rd sail, I'll look at something else.

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If the bow is long enough to allow the supplied screecher to do what it needs to do, then there is no reason for a sprit. On the other hand, if more length/distance is required, it'll need one.

 

Surely the designers aren't about to hang a 3rd sail (screecher) on a platform that won't allow it to perform properly.

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Hi all,

 

The good thing about this tread is that there are at least 4 people within 4 hours drive from each other. Plus some one else I know who is interest.

 

If Corsair does the Pulse well, the Pulse become the boat for us, and all 5 of us jump in, we would have our own start in the local races.

 

Sweeeeeettttt!!!!!!!!

 

Cheers!

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I can't believe that people are commenting about this without reading the start or looking at the renderings, IT HAS A 3RD SAIL, this has been brought up a couple of times! The discussion mostly is about sprit or not! 3 feet of 2inch carbon tube, it aint rocket science and it aint going to cost $1000, and it doesn't need rigging up, once installed. Simple stuff for a boat builder I'm thinking.

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But if that 3rd sail doesn't need a sprit - why add one? If the overall length beyond the mast allows for proper deployment and shape of the jib and screecher, why add a sprit?

 

Surely the reason for a sprit is to accommodate the 3d sail if there isn't sufficient bow space/length to do it. If there is, then no sprit is needed.

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But if that 3rd sail doesn't need a sprit - why add one? If the overall length beyond the mast allows for proper deployment and shape of the jib and screecher, why add a sprit?

 

Surely the reason for a sprit is to accommodate the 3d sail if there isn't sufficient bow space/length to do it. If there is, then no sprit is needed.

Well, if you look at the rendering in the brochure, it sure doesn't look like the 3rd sail (Gennaker? Screecher? Code 0? Chute?) is far enough ahead of the jib to be efficient IMO. Certainly not to jibe. A sprit will allow easy jibing, more sail area, more fun.

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A few more updates have just come through. Looking forward to seeing the first one on the water, certainly a hot looking boat.

 

Update 7 - http://sail.corsairmarine.com/development-update-7-on-the-pulse-600

Update 8 - http://sail.corsairmarine.com/development-update-8-on-the-pulse-600

Update 9 - http://sail.corsairmarine.com/development-update-9-on-the-pulse-600

 

Pulse_zpscpmzgfgj.jpg

 

Pulse%20Dolly_zps6nqxavfh.jpg

 

screen_shot_2015_01_24_at_8_11_20_pm_zps

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Wheres the Farrier style folding gone, the renderings only show single stay folding, meaning only folding on the trailer or only one side at the dock ( single stays means no parallegram effect ) due to lack of stability.

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The dolly trailer looks interesting.

 

But a poptop? Will it be removable or is this maybe just semantics?

 

2nhdmhd.png

 

 

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Shows wire in place of the lower strut. I assume it isn't stable folded in the water so must be unfolded ashore.

Yup, the Seacart 26 also has this system but has a triangulated arm to prevent foward and aft movement when folded.

 

Maybe the renderings are not showing the full story but for a lightweight way of doing things with the SS wire taking the strain, it seems to work on the SeaCart

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Molded trailer looks like it will be very secure in holding the main hull. The track of the trailer wheels seems narrow? More opportunities for Corsair to sell accessories that add to their bottom line AND work well for the owners. The molded trailer body also looks like it makes line-up and centering of the boat a non-issue. Anxious!

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Oh man!!!

 

If it does not fold on the water it would be a significant drawback. It would eliminate too many docking (e.g., narrow lifts) options for me.

 

In fact, that is the reason I did not considere the SeaRail 19.

 

I am optimistic as Corsair's description is pasted below. See bullet 3.

 

 

Pulse 600 Features and Technical Data

Features:

  • Innovative double carbon ring frame design
  • Reverse bow and high volume floats for optimized performance
  • Easy folding on and off the water
  • Open transom with self-draining cockpit
  • Composite rudder and dagger-boards
  • Large waterproof storage forward of the mast
  • Weatherproof lock-up cabin
  • Composite boat cradle (converts to beach trolley/ trailer cradle)
  • Built to international standards/ CE
  • International factory warranty with a global Dealer Network.

 

Cheers,

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But if that 3rd sail doesn't need a sprit - why add one? If the overall length beyond the mast allows for proper deployment and shape of the jib and screecher, why add a sprit?

 

Surely the reason for a sprit is to accommodate the 3d sail if there isn't sufficient bow space/length to do it. If there is, then no sprit is needed.

Well, if you look at the rendering in the brochure, it sure doesn't look like the 3rd sail (Gennaker? Screecher? Code 0? Chute?) is far enough ahead of the jib to be efficient IMO. Certainly not to jibe. A sprit will allow easy jibing, more sail area, more fun.

I agree with you 100% - my point all along is that surely the folks that designed this boat would/will install whatever is needed to make the 3d sail work properly.

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A few more updates have just come through. Looking forward to seeing the first one on the water, certainly a hot looking boat.

 

Update 7 - http://sail.corsairmarine.com/development-update-7-on-the-pulse-600

Update 8 - http://sail.corsairmarine.com/development-update-8-on-the-pulse-600

Update 9 - http://sail.corsairmarine.com/development-update-9-on-the-pulse-600

 

Nice renderings the boat looks great!!!! However, no information on the status of hardware development. Bummer!!

 

Cheers,

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I added a comment to Update 9 indicating that it needs a sprit. Maybe if enough of us do that we will be heard. Use the Update 9 link above ^ and add your comment.

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I added a comment to Update 9 indicating that it needs a sprit. Maybe if enough of us do that we will be heard. Use the Update 9 link above ^ and add your comment.

 

Also commented.

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Maybe they are trying to keep the costs down and keep it reasonably simple for new people to the class, every time you add something the costs go up and it becomes more unaffordable which means less boats.

Lasers are simple boats in lots of numbers, the sailors learn to sail what they are on and will learn to sail the pulse as well with what is supplied.

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Wow, really? I don't think we covered that at all in the last 268 posts. Great catch.

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Colligo Marine put up a picture a while back which I cant find now that suggested that the waterstays for the Pulse 600 would be rope not wire stays.

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Sprit or it ain't happening. If they sell if like that the first thing racy guys are going to do is gin up a sprit for it to turbo the boat, it'll be fast as shit and there goes OD. That's what happened to the F27, the Multi23 etc etc. The sprit can be optional for the people who don't want to race but the race boat has to be something close to decent performance other wise it's going to be turbo fodder. You'd think Corsair has enough recent experience to know that if they come out with obviously substandard solutions that the customers will hot rod the boats immediately.

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so lets say that the 30 % of peeps who actually wanna race it want a sprit.... than the 70 % peeps who don't know what to do with it will pay for it....

 

that's probably Corsairs thinking ....

 

 

I'd say that the 30 % who race it give the boat immense publicity, that's marketing dollars Corsair doesn't have and or not willing to spend anyhow. And it actually might proof that a cruiser can all of the sudden find the pleasure of racing finding out how easy the sprit makes the gybes. Besides the boat will just sail easier downwind....

Its not that this boat is a super bargain ..... hence it would be a huge mistake not having a sprit .... there will be NO one design fleets anywhere without it .

 

thor

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Does anyone think Corsair actually asked anyone, I don't know, like a customer or potential customer, what they thought of the design? In my fantasy world I visualize the marketing department (some guy) calling multihull sailors like me and saying, "Hey Bob'o, got a new design we think is really spiffy. What do you think?" Does that actually happen on any level? Or is it more like, "Hey, those damn Wetas seem to be sellin' real good. Let's make a bigger one, not too big, don't want to compete with our own shit. And let's keep the cost down by not putting silly shit like a sprit on it. Hell, if those Multi23 idiots had made the that thing fold from the beginning, we'd be in deep shit right now. Hand me a pencil."

 

I really think they design the boat and then go figure out how to sell it. Gotta be. If anyone normal had been asked whether or not they wanted a sprit, who would possibly say they didn't want one.

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I would love to be wrong but I would bet there will never be an OD Pulse class with a sprit.

 

Turbo the boat and it becomes only interesting to the existing multi crowd - who already have proven that OD is not something of interest to them. Name me a multi OD class that has stuck around and gotten cross-over from dinghy and monohull folks. Closest is the Weta and it can not be described as turboed. Most folks being fair would rate it similar to an H14. Pretty tame.

 

If you want a multi OD class you need cross-over. To get cross over you need a fun, fairly fast but not turboed to scare away Mom and the kids, easy to use, multi-purpose boat, that is as affordable as possible. I offer for consideration that is what the Pulse is as drawn (sans turbo package).

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As far as outside gybes go. I've heard some monohull people seem to prefer outsides when it's really blowing hard. Not sure why. We've tried it both ways on the F27 and F25C, usually by accidentally rigging the tack wrong. IMO inside gybes are safer and faster.

That's easy, it's damn hard to get 2000 sq feet of nylon through a space barely big enough for a Hitachi Magic Wand. i know, I need a sprit!

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As far as outside gybes go. I've heard some monohull people seem to prefer outsides when it's really blowing hard. Not sure why. We've tried it both ways on the F27 and F25C, usually by accidentally rigging the tack wrong. IMO inside gybes are safer and faster.

That's easy, it's damn hard to get 2000 sq feet of nylon through a space barely big enough for a Hitachi Magic Wand. i know, I need a sprit!

No, you need to outside gybe.

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Damnit. I looked up Hitachi Magic Wand thinking it was somehow linked to an asym.

from a guy called RedTuna? That's funny.

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As far as outside gybes go. I've heard some monohull people seem to prefer outsides when it's really blowing hard. Not sure why. We've tried it both ways on the F27 and F25C, usually by accidentally rigging the tack wrong. IMO inside gybes are safer and faster.

That's easy, it's damn hard to get 2000 sq feet of nylon through a space barely big enough for a Hitachi Magic Wand. i know, I need a sprit!

 

Your running an asym on the Santa Cruz?

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yeppers. All assyms on a slightly long pole.

 

Worst of both worlds when jibing. Pole forward, transfer to strop, lose the pole and reaching strut and gybe it, while outside gybing 100 feet of line, then reaching strut back on, pole back on, pole back.

 

At least with symmetries the kite is flying through the whole thing, and if you're in tune with the trimmers, it's easy peasy on the bow.

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I would love to be wrong but I would bet there will never be an OD Pulse class with a sprit.

 

Turbo the boat and it becomes only interesting to the existing multi crowd - who already have proven that OD is not something of interest to them. Name me a multi OD class that has stuck around and gotten cross-over from dinghy and monohull folks. Closest is the Weta and it can not be described as turboed. Most folks being fair would rate it similar to an H14. Pretty tame.

 

If you want a multi OD class you need cross-over. To get cross over you need a fun, fairly fast but not turboed to scare away Mom and the kids, easy to use, multi-purpose boat, that is as affordable as possible. I offer for consideration that is what the Pulse is as drawn (sans turbo package).

 

 

A sprit shouldn't scare away Mom and the kids. The sprit makes the boat easier to sail and handle for everybody. Lack of a sprit is much scarier. As far as affordability is concerned, a sprit can't be that much more expensive that it would even change the price. In fact, if one cuts down the profit margin by a few bucks but sells a lot more boats, the sprit makes a lot more sense economically. This isn't rocket science, and frankly, I'm confused as to why it is such a foreign concept to Corsair. Doesn't anybody with Corsair have a BA in Economics? I think Bob was probably right when he said:

 

Does anyone think Corsair actually asked anyone, I don't know, like a customer or potential customer, what they thought of the design? In my fantasy world I visualize the marketing department (some guy) calling multihull sailors like me and saying, "Hey Bob'o, got a new design we think is really spiffy. What do you think?" Does that actually happen on any level? Or is it more like, "Hey, those damn Wetas seem to be sellin' real good. Let's make a bigger one, not too big, don't want to compete with our own shit. And let's keep the cost down by not putting silly shit like a sprit on it. Hell, if those Multi23 idiots had made the that thing fold from the beginning, we'd be in deep shit right now. Hand me a pencil."

 

I really think they design the boat and then go figure out how to sell it. Gotta be. If anyone normal had been asked whether or not they wanted a sprit, who would possibly say they didn't want one.

 

Regardless if the market is Grandpa and Grandma taking the kids out for a sail or veteran racers, the sprit makes more sense for everybody. Anybody that claims that no sprit makes the boat more attractive to dilettante sailors is talking nonsense. Why would a sprit scare anybody? Even Grandma and Grandpa could use it in light to moderate winds. If the wind is blowing hard, leave the sprit in the back of the car.

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Noticed the comment I posted on the Corsair Pulse page got the heave-ho. It's not like I called them retards or made a credible death threat like before. Jez, what a bunch of ninnies.

 

I just guess I'll have to buy one, and the very first day, even before it gets sailed, get some SawsAll action on the front. Or I could just toss a symmetrical on it. There goes the OD fleet.

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You should see what we have planned for Full Retard. I've got an I14 pole....

 

Is this a future mod or are you planning on cheating Saturday?

 

BTW: Noticed you haven't invited me on the Cruz. I mean, seriously, what could possibly go wrong?

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