Bob Perry

CATARI comes along at Pacific Seacraft

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Jim:

I found the VPP.

It was on the newest computer!

 

I just used the VPP as a cover for my natural inclination towards crankyness.

" It was the VPP I tell you!"

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The VPP made me do it.

 

..but, at what apparent wind angle and speed? :D

 

 

More importantly, at what heel angle?

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The VPP made me do it.

 

..but, at what apparent wind angle and speed? :D

 

 

More importantly, at what heel angle?

 

 

Well played. <_<

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The VPP made me do it.

 

..but, at what apparent wind angle and speed? :D

 

 

More importantly, at what heel angle?

 

 

Well played. <_<

 

 

Actually a bit of a double hit, before you showed up here someone was bloviating about "heel polars" and how they should be part of a good VPP, which was pretty much a null and void concept. This is the way I remember it, which may differ significantly from whatever really happened.

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The VPP made me do it.

 

..but, at what apparent wind angle and speed? :D

 

 

More importantly, at what heel angle?

 

 

Well played. <_<

 

 

Actually a bit of a double hit, before you showed up here someone was bloviating about "heel polars" and how they should be part of a good VPP, which was pretty much a null and void concept. This is the way I remember it, which may differ significantly from whatever really happened.

 

 

I have no polars for my boat. I don't think they exist.

Besides, sometimes science takes all the fun out of sailing.

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Hearing sailors getting all excited about 'polars' makes me think of shamans 'casting bones' and devining the future. You really need powerful Juju to do that shit...

 

img_9933.jpg

 

Maybe reading crabs would be more appropriate for boats however,

 

Crab Sorcerer

 

Rhumsiki_crab_sorceror.jpg

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What kind of polars are there besides "heeled polars"?

 

Do you think anyone would run polars not representing the boat in it's heeled trim? That would make no sense at all.

I think having some good, accurate polars increases the enjoyment of sailing. If you have any interest at all in performance.

 

If not:

Go let out 18" of genoa halyard.

Move your genoa lead 24" forward.

Remove your upper two mainsail battens.

Pull your trav car all the way up to weather.

Take some tension on the boom topping lift.

Strap your main in and knock yourself out!

 

Oh yeah, I forgot, Go up the mast and remove that silly Windex.

 

Fear of polars is for those who don;t understand them. Easier to mock them than learn how to use them.

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What kind of polars are there besides "heeled polars"?

 

Do you think anyone would run polars not representing the boat in it's heeled trim? That would make no sense at all.

I think having some good, accurate polars increases the enjoyment of sailing. If you have any interest at all in performance.

 

If not:

Go let out 18" of genoa halyard.

Move your genoa lead 24" forward.

Remove your upper two mainsail battens.

Pull your trav car all the way up to weather.

Take some tension on the boom topping lift.

Strap your main in and knock yourself out!

 

Oh yeah, I forgot, Go up the mast and remove that silly Windex.

 

No, this person was arguing on having a set of polars based on heel angle. Nevermind.

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What kind of polars are there besides "heeled polars"?

 

Do you think anyone would run polars not representing the boat in it's heeled trim? That would make no sense at all.

I think having some good, accurate polars increases the enjoyment of sailing. If you have any interest at all in performance.

 

If not:

Go let out 18" of genoa halyard.

Move your genoa lead 24" forward.

Remove your upper two mainsail battens.

Pull your trav car all the way up to weather.

Take some tension on the boom topping lift.

Strap your main in and knock yourself out!

 

Oh yeah, I forgot, Go up the mast and remove that silly Windex.

 

Fear of polars is for those who don;t understand them. Easier to mock them than learn how to use them.

 

Actually, pulling my traveler car all the way up to weather in light air actually seems to help!

But, nobody has polars on my boat, so who knows? :D

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Tom:

You know your boat so well, or so you would have us believe, that I'm not sure you would get anything out of polars. But if you had a set of lines and $1,000 you could get some. I'll be you a buck Rasper could, model your hull up in a heartbeat. He has the eye to work from your drawings ad photos and get really close. You'd get some 3D images of your boat to ad to your shrine.

 

I seldom look at the polars, I prefer the entire tabular output of the VPP . The actual polar array is just the tip of the ice berg. But the polar plot is simple and convenient while giving you a quick target speed.

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Tom:

You know your boat so well, or so you would have us believe, that I'm not sure you would get anything out of polars. But if you had a set of lines and $1,000 you could get some. I'll be you a buck Rasper could, model your hull up in a heartbeat. He has the eye to work from your drawings ad photos and get really close. You'd get some 3D images of your boat to ad to your shrine.

 

I seldom look at the polars, I prefer the entire tabular output of the VPP . The actual polar array is just the tip of the ice berg. But the polar plot is simple and convenient while giving you a quick target speed.

 

Oh, man I would love that!

I talked with Charlie Morgan a few times trying to get lines for my boat - and he could not find them.

Then he found them, but could not copy them (they were big). I offerred to drive over, and get them copied for him, but by then he had grown tired of the effort and he dropped it. I would love a 3D view of my boat too - and would definitely pay! ...but I have no lines.

 

My daughter was a National Geographic reasearcher, and she told me they are using new technology to scan objects - big objects - and digitally preserve them. I am waiting for somebody to bring that (economically) to the boating world, too. Then, I won't need lines - and in fact, I'd get something better. I'd get what my boat actually is, rather than what Charlie Morgan drew. And I know that those are two different things!

 

I'd love a half-hull, 3D rendering, anything - but have always been stymied by not having lines. Good old Charlie Morgan is getting old, and I worry about what will happen to all his background material when he dies. He has a website that has promised for YEARS to document his work, but it never gets done. He was going to write a book, but that proved too much. I don't think he has anyone young and healthy enough to do the leg work needed. I'm 55, and if he can hang on for 5 more years (..I plan to retire at 60), I will volunteer to go up there and begin to archive and preserve his stuff. He has a wealth of information, documentation, and other resources that are in jeopardy of being lost when he passes because nobody is willing or able to organize and preserve it.

 

Right now, I'm only just able to preserve one of his lesser known production boats. I'd love to do more!

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When racing, polars are important to me. How else are you going to win without knowing the correct angle to sail?

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A quick update: custom aluminum shims have been made and anodized for various clutches and turning blocks, after laying out all lines on deck to ensure fair leads. Some of the deck hardware was relocated following that exercise, and as a result, some small areas have been recored to support the loads of the hardware.. By the end of Jan, all deck hardware will be installed. Electronics and electrical systems are also being installed.

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Tom:

I can;t speak for Rasper but He'll read this I suspect. I know you have a sail plan and plan view of the hull. With those two views and some photographs I believe Rasper can model that hull close enough that neither you nor I could tell the difference.

 

As for the importance of polars: ask WHL about that. He's the navigator on board a new TP52 and one of the first things they did when the boat came to town was to get polars, I've done polars for all my designs for the past 30 years. I started doing them when the computer had to run all night to produce them. When we started working with the sail lofts for the inventories for the four carbon cutters one of the sailmaker's first questions was always, "Do you have polars?" So a very smart and experienced segment of the sailing world values polars. Using them on FRANCIS LEE has helped us optimize performance greatly. "Feel" can be very deceptive when it comes to jibing angles or how to get the best VMG is a variety of conditions. Despite the skill and experience of the crew of FRANCIS we benefit from having polars.

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+1 to seeing you around a bit, Evans. 6,000 posts are also worthy of something.

 

Jesse

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Tom:

I can;t speak for Rasper but He'll read this I suspect. I know you have a sail plan and plan view of the hull. With those two views and some photographs I believe Rasper can model that hull close enough that neither you nor I could tell the difference.

 

As for the importance of polars: ask WHL about that. He's the navigator on board a new TP52 and one of the first things they did when the boat came to town was to get polars, I've done polars for all my designs for the past 30 years. I started doing them when the computer had to run all night to produce them. When we started working with the sail lofts for the inventories for the four carbon cutters one of the sailmaker's first questions was always, "Do you have polars?" So a very smart and experienced segment of the sailing world values polars. Using them on FRANCIS LEE has helped us optimize performance greatly. "Feel" can be very deceptive when it comes to jibing angles or how to get the best VMG is a variety of conditions. Despite the skill and experience of the crew of FRANCIS we benefit from having polars.

 

Bob - I do understand the value of polars. It's only because I can't have them for my boat that I pretend to mock them. B)

I grew up sailing old Morgans (...when they weren't THAT old - but neither was I!). We had no instruments on board except a flashing fathometer, and a compass. "All" we had to do to was sail faster than the similar boats around us to appreciate how well we were sailing. And that worked well unti big regattas, when the big boys from St Petersburg would come east and sail against us. Then, those of us who often won locally, found ourselves in third place or worse. Even back then, the St. Pete bunch had more science on their side. I don't think they had polars that looked like what we have now, but they had target speeds they aimed for based on apparent wind angle. I do not recall if these target speeds were calculated or measured from actually sailing the yacht. But I recall one of their afterguard always had a card in his hand, and that's what he was looking at. (..Worthless for us - we had no knotmeter, GPS was decades away, and who could afford LORAN?!) Plus we didn't have an "afterguard". We had a guy called Moose. But I digress...

 

Honestly, I don't enjoy sailing by looking at instruments - probably because that was how I HAD to fly when I did that for a living. So, for me, sailing is an "anticipate, feel and respond" type experience, not a "follow the dots" type of thing. However, I know that if you want to wring that last fraction of a knot out of your boat, you NEED instrumentation, polars, VPP's and everything else. I do get that.

 

I'd like polars for my boat - and I'd really love a Rasputin produced 3D model depiction - but I have been unable to get a lines drawing from Charlie Morgan, and I don't know anybody else who would have them. I've never even seen a half-hull model of a Morgan 30 either - so nobody who makes those would seem to have ever had a lines drawing. Within the next few years, Whimsy is going to undergo another major refit (..perhaps my last as her owner), and I think having Rasputin produce 3D drawings of her after she is all shiny, polished, and refit will be the icing on the cake, provided he is still doing that, and really willing to try doing it without a lines drawing.

 

I sincerely appreciate your guidance. I really never thought of having a nice 3D drawing made, but as a future "old fart" who will want to remember my good old boat through "rose-colored glasses", I can see where I might really like it!

 

But, in the meantime, if you ever happen to talk with Charlie Morgan again.... :D

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Tom: Send Rasper a PM. He's as good a guy as he is talented.

I'll talk to Charlie. We are friends.

 

I have reached out to "Rasper", and I thank you so much, Bob. :)

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Tom, that 3d laser scanning stuff is somewhat commonplace these days. I know it gets used occasionally for unique hulls for rating rules, as well as heaps of industrial uses. A Google of 3d laser scanning services in your area should bring up a few people to talk to.

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We have a set of polars for Evenstar but they seem to be for a brand new empty boat with new sails. We are fully laden for cruising (some 8000 extra pounds of stuff) and no matter what I try with sail trim I can't get the boat within half a knot of the numbers in most conditions.

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Tom, that 3d laser scanning stuff is somewhat commonplace these days. I know it gets used occasionally for unique hulls for rating rules, as well as heaps of industrial uses. A Google of 3d laser scanning services in your area should bring up a few people to talk to.

5 years ago, it was $800/day for the equipment and tech. You could do both sides of a 35' boat in a day if you did not want a detained model of the deck/cockpit. Reducing the data to a point cloud you can import into a model is probably a day's work for a junior design engineer at $60-75/ HR. Might be cheaper now as the equipment is more common and the software to import and reduce the data to a usable model is better.

 

I haven't needed the service outside of small stuff in a lab lately.

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Speaking of boats with great interior paint jobs... ;-)


Any chance of a picture?

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Fall:

I'll see if I can get some current photos from the yard.

 

The projected launch date is the end of April. I'm looking forward to that. WHL and I will be there for the launch.

 

I emailed Steve Brodie at the yard. Hopefully I'll have some current photos soon.

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Fall:

I'll see if I can get some current photos from the yard.

 

The projected launch date is the end of April. I'm looking forward to that. WHL and I will be there for the launch.

 

I emailed Steve Brodie at the yard. Hopefully I'll have some current photos soon.

Bump

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WHL and I will be going back there at the end of the month for the launch. ND is dragging his feet (he's very busy) making decisons on some final interior finishing touches. But, we will have the boat in the water and rigged soon.

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What kind of polars are there besides "heeled polars"?

 

Do you think anyone would run polars not representing the boat in it's heeled trim? That would make no sense at all.

I think having some good, accurate polars increases the enjoyment of sailing. If you have any interest at all in performance.

 

If not:

Go let out 18" of genoa halyard.

Move your genoa lead 24" forward.

Remove your upper two mainsail battens.

Pull your trav car all the way up to weather.

Take some tension on the boom topping lift.

Strap your main in and knock yourself out!

 

Oh yeah, I forgot, Go up the mast and remove that silly Windex.

 

No, this person was arguing on having a set of polars based on heel angle. Nevermind.

 

 

I was "that person".., and you still have it wrong

 

you pretty much all though i was an idiot - so i gave up trying to explain it.., but i'm feeling generous today!

 

heel polars are polars that work just like boat speed polars

 

BSP polars tell you what you what your BSP should be at different TWA/ TWS combinations - you can plot them in polar coordinates, so they are called "polars"

 

heel polars tell you what your heel angle should be at different TWA/TWS combinations - these can also be plotted in polar coordinates.

 

many top racing boats and racing helmsmen use them

 

modern race boats - and some older boats too - are very sensitive to the angle of heel.

 

heel in turn is itself a sensitive indicator of the total state of boat trim - if you can get the heel angle right (without doing stupid stuff).., you will be well on the way to be sailing at the polar speed.

 

sailing to the heel polar - that is getting the boat trimmed so that the boat is sailing at the optimum or target heel angle for the given TWA/TWS is very helpful in getting the boat up to the optimum polar speed - when sailing at optimum VMG angles, or "target" angles we call these optimum speeds "target" speeds - otherwise they are called polar speeds.

 

the point of it is that if you are not able to hit your target or polar speed for a particular TWA/TWS.., and you look at your heel angle.., and find it is less than or more than what the heel polars indicate is optimum - it is something you can fix...

 

obviously it's not just a matter of moving weight - maybe the helmsman is pinching and that's why you are too flat.., maybe the main trim is wrong.., and so on...

 

the last time we had this discussion.., many of you said "i just use the tell tales" - well maybe that works for you

 

but Gary Jobson says this:

 

"Too many helmsman become mesmerized by telltales. Not that you shouldn't use them, but the less you depend on them the better off you'll be...."

 

and

 

"Of all the factors that you use while steering the boat upwind, the thing that I study the most is the angle of heel. Whether sailing a dinghy or a big boat during day or night, find the correct angle of heel for your boat. You learn this by studying your performance against that of other boats. Once you know what the optimum angle of heel is, strive to obtain it by using your weight, your steering, and your sail trim. Heel is a combination of all three....

 

and

 

"When sailing any boat to windward, I spend 40% of my time worrying about heel angle, 10% looking at my telltales..."

 

Gary said that in 1990 - it's still good advice today

 

heel polars are just a way of quantifying it for boats trying to extract the optimum performance from their boat

 

do cruisers need to worry about it - no

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For the record. I don't like simple polars. There is not enough info there. I like the tabular form of VPP output where everything is there including heel angle, leeway, VMG, boat speed TWA, AWA TWS, AWS etc. I like to have all of it available. I don;t sail to any one set of numbers. If I did it would be to VMG. If my VMG were optimized I'd assume my heel angle were optimized. If it were not then my VMG would not be either. It's all about VMG. While racing, the tabular form being a bit cumbersome, it's a big sheet of many numbers. a quick look at the polar plot for VMG can be very useful. WHL is all over that stuff when we race Francis.

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For the record. I don't like simple polars. There is not enough info there. I like the tabular form of VPP output where everything is there including heel angle, leeway, VMG, boat speed TWA, AWA TWS, AWS etc. I like to have all of it available. I don;t sail to any one set of numbers. If I did it would be to VMG. If my VMG were optimized I'd assume my heel angle were optimized. If it were not then my VMG would not be either. It's all about VMG. While racing, the tabular form being a bit cumbersome, it's a big sheet of many numbers. a quick look at the polar plot for VMG can be very useful. WHL is all over that stuff when we race Francis.

 

i don't disagree

 

having driven a variety of race boats - from meter boats (maybe kind of like frankie?) to modern wide-assed race boats, what i can say is this:

 

wrt steering and trim.., it's easier to get it wrong on a modern race boat

 

narrower boats like meter boats and maybe frankie.., tend to have a pretty well defined groove.., wander out of it and you will know it

 

same with heel - on this older style of boat.., i won't say it's impossible to sail them at the wrong angle of heel.., but it's harder than on a modern boat

 

modern race boats have a much wider region where it feels right - but isn't.., and that's a big problem when you are racing.

 

they simply can not be sailed as intuitively as older designs.

 

it's why we depend so much more on instruments and polars on those boats

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What kind of polars are there besides "heeled polars"?

 

Do you think anyone would run polars not representing the boat in it's heeled trim? That would make no sense at all.

I think having some good, accurate polars increases the enjoyment of sailing. If you have any interest at all in performance.

 

If not:

Go let out 18" of genoa halyard.

Move your genoa lead 24" forward.

Remove your upper two mainsail battens.

Pull your trav car all the way up to weather.

Take some tension on the boom topping lift.

Strap your main in and knock yourself out!

 

Oh yeah, I forgot, Go up the mast and remove that silly Windex.

 

No, this person was arguing on having a set of polars based on heel angle. Nevermind.

 

 

I was "that person".., and you still have it wrong

 

you pretty much all though i was an idiot - so i gave up trying to explain it.., but i'm feeling generous today!

 

heel polars are polars that work just like boat speed polars

 

BSP polars tell you what you what your BSP should be at different TWA/ TWS combinations - you can plot them in polar coordinates, so they are called "polars"

 

heel polars tell you what your heel angle should be at different TWA/TWS combinations - these can also be plotted in polar coordinates.

 

many top racing boats and racing helmsmen use them

 

modern race boats - and some older boats too - are very sensitive to the angle of heel.

 

heel in turn is itself a sensitive indicator of the total state of boat trim - if you can get the heel angle right (without doing stupid stuff).., you will be well on the way to be sailing at the polar speed.

 

sailing to the heel polar - that is getting the boat trimmed so that the boat is sailing at the optimum or target heel angle for the given TWA/TWS is very helpful in getting the boat up to the optimum polar speed - when sailing at optimum VMG angles, or "target" angles we call these optimum speeds "target" speeds - otherwise they are called polar speeds.

 

the point of it is that if you are not able to hit your target or polar speed for a particular TWA/TWS.., and you look at your heel angle.., and find it is less than or more than what the heel polars indicate is optimum - it is something you can fix...

 

obviously it's not just a matter of moving weight - maybe the helmsman is pinching and that's why you are too flat.., maybe the main trim is wrong.., and so on...

 

the last time we had this discussion.., many of you said "i just use the tell tales" - well maybe that works for you

 

but Gary Jobson says this:

 

"Too many helmsman become mesmerized by telltales. Not that you shouldn't use them, but the less you depend on them the better off you'll be...."

 

and

 

"Of all the factors that you use while steering the boat upwind, the thing that I study the most is the angle of heel. Whether sailing a dinghy or a big boat during day or night, find the correct angle of heel for your boat. You learn this by studying your performance against that of other boats. Once you know what the optimum angle of heel is, strive to obtain it by using your weight, your steering, and your sail trim. Heel is a combination of all three....

 

and

 

"When sailing any boat to windward, I spend 40% of my time worrying about heel angle, 10% looking at my telltales..."

 

Gary said that in 1990 - it's still good advice today

 

heel polars are just a way of quantifying it for boats trying to extract the optimum performance from their boat

 

do cruisers need to worry about it - no

 

 

Thanks. Very informative.

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I would also agree 70. We rely heavily on polars to get the most out of Francis and as you say, it is not always intuitive.

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I would also agree 70. We rely heavily on polars to get the most out of Francis and as you say, it is not always intuitive.

New polars coming for FRANCIS with the ORC certificate which is now in the works.

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ORC Cert, huh? Does that mean that you are going to bring her out to play for Swiftsure?

 

What does she rate PHRF, btw?

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ORC Cert, huh? Does that mean that you are going to bring her out to play for Swiftsure?

 

What does she rate PHRF, btw?

-3 with kite, 25 NFS

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ORC Cert, huh? Does that mean that you are going to bring her out to play for Swiftsure?

 

What does she rate PHRF, btw?

 

what are you getting?

 

is it an ORR rating?

 

the US ORR rating doesn't come with targets or polars - although you can buy them as part of the US Sailing Performance Package.

 

the European ORCi international rating comes with targets but not polars.., but again, they sell a performance package with polars

 

you are racing in the usa, right - so i assume you are getting an ORR rating, not an ORC rating...

 

anyway, i recommend getting the performance package.

 

the polars for your boat will be reasonably good out of the box, and will make a good starting place if you want to refine them based on observed performance.

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Seattle is going ORC Club for the next while - that will be what the FL is getting.

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Seattle is going ORC Club for the next while - that will be what the FL is getting.

 

ok

 

i guess he is also getting their version of the performance package - i don't think the club rating comes with anything

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ORC Cert, huh? Does that mean that you are going to bring her out to play for Swiftsure?

 

What does she rate PHRF, btw?

This thread is really about Catari, but since FL is in the frame, FL was designed as a "gentleman's daysailer" and consequently is not equipped to meet the safety requirements for Swiftsure. In particular, it has no lifelines or pulpits. It can be rigged with jacklines but the race requirements ignore their functionality, except they are required once you have lifelines !!! Go figure !! We could have more classic boats in this event if the priority were given to jacklines as mandatory, and lifelines as optional !! Given the size of the boat, its stiffness, the way it's rigged, the handholds, plus jacklines, lifelines are a bit over the top (as well as ugly and totally unsuited for gentlemanly day sailing !!).

 

The decision to use ORC was to take advantage of its VPP, and get a very cost effective, and comprehensive package of performance info, versus ORR, and its comparably excessive cost. As an aside, most of the big boat fleet in Seattle has, or is getting an ORC rating.

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ORC Cert, huh? Does that mean that you are going to bring her out to play for Swiftsure?

 

What does she rate PHRF, btw?

 

what are you getting?

 

is it an ORR rating?

 

the US ORR rating doesn't come with targets or polars - although you can buy them as part of the US Sailing Performance Package.

 

the European ORCi international rating comes with targets but not polars.., but again, they sell a performance package with polars

 

you are racing in the usa, right - so i assume you are getting an ORR rating, not an ORC rating...

 

anyway, i recommend getting the performance package.

 

the polars for your boat will be reasonably good out of the box, and will make a good starting place if you want to refine them based on observed performance.

The ORC organization does offer all the performance info a typical club racer would want, at a very reasonable price.

For Designers, there is a license fee of €500 to have access to the VPP and run as many tests as you wish for as many boats as you wish, purely for the VPP output, without any need to go through a local handicapper for results.

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This thread is really about Catari,

 

Exactly...any news on Catari??!?!?!?!? We can read about Kim's boat in his thread!

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Mr. Bitches:

WHL and I will go back to the yard for the launch at the end of the month. There will still be some unfinished interior details waiting for ND';s final decisions on those details.

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Mr. Bitches:

WHL and I will go back to the yard for the launch at the end of the month. There will still be some unfinished interior details waiting for ND';s final decisions on those details.

Figure it will be up for sale next month ?

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Mr. Bitches:

WHL and I will go back to the yard for the launch at the end of the month. There will still be some unfinished interior details waiting for ND';s final decisions on those details.

Figure it will be up for sale next month ?

 

 

Are you stepping up to the plate?

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Mr. Bitches:

WHL and I will go back to the yard for the launch at the end of the month. There will still be some unfinished interior details waiting for ND';s final decisions on those details.

 

You posted that on the 30th. Today's the 31st, so end of the month! Launch day today then? Looking forward to seeing Catari in the water. Production started 2 years ago? 3?

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Rols:

Next month. We are waiting for a date confirmation now. These things have a tendency to drag out. I sure don't want to be back there in the heat of summer again. I'm a PNW guy, anything over 70 is survival time for me.

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Mr. Perry, Thanks for the update. I am still waiting to see this boat come up the Chesapeake Bay when complete..I am only 45-ish miles from Catari's home port, and it would be great to welcome it home as it slides by. B)

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I understand..I hope to see it at some point but I don't blame him. Folks like ND are often smart to get out of the States..and Maryland is a heavy (taxes) one.

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Mr. Bitches:

I've seen photos of ND's place in the BVI's. It's paradise.

 

But you know what Don Henley said about that, "Call some place paradise, kiss it goodbye."

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kiss it good bye?

 

it's already gone

 

mega cruise ships the size of cities...

 

tourist trap beach bars

 

unattractive development

 

oh well

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I gotta agree with that - after a few decades of dreaming about sailing there a group of us chartered a 47' and spent a couple of weeks there. The water was amazing but the rest left a lot to be desired.

 

It was just O/K for the most part - none of us have any plans to go back.

 

Probably should have found a way to go there when I first started dreaming about it.

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I don't know 7070, the convenience of banking, supplies and communication have made being there much simpler. Being able to have a coldie at Lagoonies after buying supplies at the cash and carry just up the hill is pretty nice. Not that we've ever seen another tourist at the cash and carry.

 

My wife grew up there when there was nothing. Her folks cruised there after retirement, they thought it was much nicer having resources in place that supported their cruising but I don't think they spent much time in Phillupsburg when the cruise ships were in.

 

Like most things in life you give something to get something.

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I love the BVI's. I'd go back in a heartbeat if my boys could go with me,

:(

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"Production started 2 years ago? 3?"

 

Hey Rols

 

I've heard there's a guy in Comox, BC who can knock one of these out in 2 or 3 months. Approximately 1 month to splash, then 1 month to fit out and it would be a real man's boat made of steel, not poncey plastic, cos real men don't care what the pussy pad on the push pit is called. Bish bosh to you, $25 grand.

 

Rob

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Bump.

 

I thought CATARI would beat FRANCIS into the water.

FRANCIS splashed in late March 2014.

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ND is busy with his house project in he BVI's and is putting off the launch. Probably wants to wait until late summer when it is really hot in NC. Great.

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Launch mid summer, shakedown, back to the shop for any repairs, to the BVI's in the fall... sounds like a plan.

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ND is busy with his house project in he BVI's and is putting off the launch. Probably wants to wait until late summer when it is really hot in NC. Great.

The only thing between Hell and summer in Eastern NC is a screen door.

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Bump. Now that summer should be over even in NC it should not be too hot to launch this boat. :)

 

Any updates? I would love to see at least a picture with masts up and hopefully sailing.

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Owner and factory have gone radio silent. It's going to make an interesting story someday

 

This prompted me to call Thumper at PSC with a question about how to best install a replacement bilge pump for VALIS. I got their message saying that on Friday they close up at noon (it's after noon there), but within a few minutes Thumper called me back and we chatted for a while. He says they are keeping busy, and working on the Jimmy Buffet "Seafari" build. Catari is still waiting for the owner to give the word to splash. Thumper says they just haven't been active on the internet.

 

So perhaps they're "radio silent" at Pacific Seacraft, but they have not shut the doors.

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"Surfari," I think. I can imagine Jimmy is more excited about his build than ND. Plus, he's famous.

 

I hope ND eventually enjoys his boat.

 

surfari-44-forward-quarter.jpg

 

Catari.jpg

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Weird situation.

 

Reminds me of a "difficult" relative in mid-20th-century. Ordered a car, due several months later, and paid a hefty deposit. Decades later, after his death, all the subsequent correspondence was in his papers. It consisted of a pile of letters from the dealer to Mr Difficult, informing him of the car's imminent import, actual arrival, readiness for collection, etc. Then a series of "surprised not to hear from you" letters, culminating in the final one saying that they had sold the vehicle and retained the deposit.

 

I hope that the Catari story has a happier conclusion.

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Many foundlings go on to become much-loved adopted children, and happy adults.

 

But it's still a tough start to life

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The furling main V. Boom bag annoys my eye. Otherwise gorgeous.

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I find these choices hard to reconcile with the boat being offshore in a seaway, so I imagine this area of the boat is thought of as dedicated to lounging on the hook.

 

 

post-5483-0-57797000-1437152934.jpg

post-123520-0-21771700-1484105251_thumb.jpg

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Lounging at the builders perhaps?

 

you see that set up often on boats that are large enough that when the dinette and two lengthwise setees are in place, the other side of the boat is still bare. in that case, the option is often another (3rd) setee.., or something like this

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I fought for a settee/ berth but I lost. This layout really messed up the dining arrangement. I trust that in time they will realize that I was right.

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I don't think Catari will be delivered to the people who commissioned it. The new owners will realize you were right.

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Lounging at the builders perhaps?

 

you see that set up often on boats that are large enough that when the dinette and two lengthwise setees are in place, the other side of the boat is still bare. in that case, the option is often another (3rd) setee.., or something like this

 

 

the other thing is that at least on bigger boats.., there really is no loss of offshore functionality with this setup

 

on a 70ft boat, there are usually plenty of good sea berths.., so there really is no need for a 3rd setee in the salon

 

mostly when boats that size get delivered- even across an ocean.., there is only a crew of 4 or so.., and usually nobody needs to sleep in the salon anyway.

 

when the boat is cruised, nobody sleeps in the salon either..

 

so, if it is only ever going to be used for sitting.., you can argue that it's better than a setee

 

at least that's been my experience on boats with that setup

 

now, if it's on a 40ft boat.., and you lose a good setee.., then i would agree it's not a good trade off

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Since boat launching season is soon approaching and I'm tired of all the vlog nonsense. Maybe it's time to bring back an oldie but a goodie.

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The storage charges on Catari must be enough by now to have paid for a very nice boat.

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