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ladymarmalade

d-zero v aero

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Not often that we are spoiled for choice. 2 new boats that rock the same boxes, a bit like the betamax v vhs wars orperhaps closer to Audi v BMW.

 

 

I know there are tthreads about both, but which would you buy and why.

 

For me the aero is more ford than Audi. The zero is perhaps better quality, but the price, the three rigs and the fact that it has the rs marketing machine probably sways it. But before I open my wallet I would appreciate your collective thoughts

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For my money there is no contest....

 

D-Zero everytime.

 

There was a previous encounter between RS and Devoti, the D1/RS100, it is very clear which boat came out on top there despite the RS Marketing machine.

 

I know of plenty of stories where folks have ordered an Aero, then sailed a D-Zero and cancelled their order with RS. Only 1 instance of the reverse being true though to my knowledge.

 

That and if you want an Aero you need to wait until March 2015 for delivery. You can have a D-Zero in 2-3 weeks given current experience (how RS are not getting any volume to market is beyond me unless they didn't set anything up until after they started getting orders).

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Having sailed neither, and never having owned an RS (sailed a couple), I like the approach taken by Punk's designer - Dan Holman. As I understand it, he built something he liked, then refined it for what - 3 years? then did a deal with a very well respected builder and the result is the D-Zero. I would definately want to test sail before I ordered (if I were in the market), but I wouldn't necessarily sail the Aero as well if I liked the Zero. The looks of the Aero don't do it for me the way the Zero does. But then I own a Saab!

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I've sailed both. The Zero is definitely faster, markedly faster. Better organised for racing, a bit harder for a beginner sailor. Possibly more of a handful in waves (haven't sailed either boat in those conditions so that's a guess based on the bow volume). None of these are startling insights, they are exactly the same as others who have sailed both have said.

 

Which did I like better, no question, the Zero. Nevertheless, the choice, to me, would be influenced by what others at your club will do and that's what I'm still trying to figure out.

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I had deposits down on both and went for the Zero. It is designed to sail well, whereas I feel the Aero was designed to be light and cheap. Having said that I know three folk, all of advanced years, who have plumped for the Aero (have test sailed neither) as they perceive it as a lightweight Solo and less cramped than the Zero.

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These are exactly the responses I was hoping for, thank you. Yes I can research the other threads but I wanted to ask the question about comparison directly and not as the elephant in the room. Interested that people feel the zero is faster, does it point higher, is it faster through the tacks, doors is higher momentum count for more...

Ultimately the boat that will become the volume seller is the one that developed fleets faster, interesting that it is not necessarily the cheapest one.

Those who have sailed then both, which is the most fun, the lightest helm, the best balanced boat?

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I've sailed neither, but have had a good look at both, both on and off the water....

They both look good boats, but the impression I get is that one (the Zero) has been designed to a more "pure" sailing experience, with an emphasis on performance, feedback and serious sailing. The Aero is still good and will achieve volume sales, partially because of the design compromises that have been built into it (stacking etc) to make it attractive to the sailing centre buyers, but it is these that I think will eventually see it regarded as a "beach toy" or family boat rather than a racer.

 

There are many echoes of the D-One/RS100 launches (I must declare a bias here as a D-One owner) with lots of 100s sold and now loads available 2nd hand whilst the D-One has achieved critical acclaim and steady continual growth in the class.

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Those who have sailed then both, which is the most fun, the lightest helm, the best balanced boat?

Both are well-balanced with light helm. Both are good boats. The Zero has smaller space to work with in tacks and gybes. Aero = easier to sail, Zero = better racing boat.

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Yes, I agree with Bootscooter and Dogwatch. When I said I felt the Aero had been designed to be cheap I did not mean to imply "and nasty" or lacking quality, merely that some aspects of the design e.g the mast, are compromised from a pure performance perspective to meet cost objectives.

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Yes, I agree with Bootscooter and Dogwatch. When I said I felt the Aero had been designed to be cheap I did not mean to imply "and nasty" or lacking quality, merely that some aspects of the design e.g the mast, are compromised from a pure performance perspective to meet cost objectives.

So my analogy initially was wrong - more Ford (Aero) v BMW (Zero)

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It's a no brainer .... buy the one that will be sailing at a club near you.

 

Failing that, if you are reliant on handicap racing only, then sail both, ideally in typical conditions you would sail in, and choose the one you like the most. Of those I know who have done just that, there's a very clear correlation- one seems more suited as an individual's personal racing dinghy, one seems better positioned as a family beach boat.

 

If you still can't choose- I'd go for the one which either a- planes upwind or b- seems the most genuine

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Yes, I agree with Bootscooter and Dogwatch. When I said I felt the Aero had been designed to be cheap I did not mean to imply "and nasty" or lacking quality, merely that some aspects of the design e.g the mast, are compromised from a pure performance perspective to meet cost objectives.

So my analogy initially was wrong - more Ford (Aero) v BMW (Zero)

 

Ford v Aston Martin ;) they both get the job done but I know which one I would rather be driving.....

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Interesting - Everyone on this thread seems to be a zero fan - Where are the Aero Fans - Or has everyone from the Aero thread converted?

 

I know the answer is - Whichever comes to my club - But my club have neither so I would need to travel - and there is an aero club and a zero club both less than an hour away from me - Hence the choice for me

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You are very, very lucky then.

 

I'd probably be comparing the clubs alongside the boats rather than the boat in isolation if I were you... the right club will make the right boat the right choice.

 

What is the fleet like at both? What demographic have they attracted? Are they both a core group of tight knit dinghy racers who've made a collective decision to really drive a new fleet, or are they a random hotchpotch who signed up on a sunny demo day with a discount?

 

What is the water like? Open sea? Cramped little puddle? Open inland water? Estuary with a tidal window for launching?

 

How many duties are you expected to do? Do they make you clean the toilets after the Albacore sailors have finished...

 

Is the water open for free sailing when there's no club racing? Or does it shutdown, even temporarily for opens and effectively stop paying members sailing in favour of 'guests'? Does the club have a Facebook Group - do the people on it seem like a bunch of c*nts or folks you'd actually have a laugh with, maybe even a driving shandy after racing?

 

Wow- can't believe you are fortunate enough to BOTH options available....

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I was a committed Zero fan, but I sail predominantly on the sea, and my selection of it was primarily for lake use. However my uptake is temporarily on hold due to a house move and the fact it's getting it's yardstick rating screwed up and they are not protesting sufficiently loudly about it.. However as much as the Zero appears to have everything going for it, there are things the Aero delivers that it doesn't.

 

Ignoring the sailing for a moment, which there are differences but if you're me, at 67 kgs you're a bit stuck between underpowered and overpowered but where the Aero scores is on handling on and off the trailer, not only due to its weight, but for the fact there are things to grab hold of, edges. It's also a 'drier' boat to sail the Zero does start getting wet when the breeze is up and in the winter wet = cold so I wasn't looking forward to that either.

 

The Zero also has this little sticking up lump underneath that nobody on our beach liked with the obvious worry one beach graunch and it might be gone, that may not be the case, but it is a worry, it's a baler thing. They were not happy either, helping to get it back on the trailer out of the water because there's nothing to grab hold of, so wether you call it a beach toy or a beach boat, the Aero is better around beach sea interfaces, there are also grumbles about it's downwind wave performance although personally although its nose did dive, it never went right down the mine to the point it worried me, but then they were not particularly big waves when I used it on the sea, the wind hadn't built long enough to get our usual wave length.

 

Sailing quality the Zero has it upwind by a country mile, the Aero you need to work at to keep it 'in the groove' off wind however I felt the Aero came unstuck a lot quicker than the Zero although I felt happier in the Zero on a dead run or trying to run by the lee, but on a straight broad reach the Aero has it away, with the Zero preferring a tighter reach.

 

Then there's the rig, here the Zero has the advantage the 8.1 is a good compromise size and the controls all good, the Aero has a marmite sail which sadly most of the regular types seem to hate which I find weird since there are an equal number of them that go all gooey eyed when someone puts shiny wooden coffee table dodging things in front of them and a dacron rig is no worse than a bloody bonetti built contender in my mind except you pay more for the coffin. The size range however i regard as a disadvantage, I liked the 9mtr but felt I couldn't hold it much above 10-12 knots, the 7 I didn't think was big enough but I didn't get much use of it in any decent wind.

 

Then there are the trick 'bits'. The Aero scores on polished 'extras', cupholder, carbon look trailing edges on the foils, rear gates to stop the rope going out the back and an absolute dream device for attaching the rudder to the pintles, plus the general finish to the boat they just look, well a bit more 21st century boy. Not saying the Zero doesn't have some bonus features like the wire main halyard and the boom attachment, the Aero just does it all better.

 

So, you see it's not an out and out straight choice, there are lots of features going for both boats, on paper I should go with an Aero if I wanted one boat for both bits of water I sail on, but I prefer the Zero even if I'd only really get to use it on the lake, but, there is also something else very tasty waiting in the wings that ticks all my particular boxes and I need to give that a try now, light, retracting centreboard, decent yardstick, small rig and comparable with other boats sailing or soon to be sailing at my club.

 

Nice to have some choice for a change, it's been long enough.

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I was a committed Zero fan, but I sail predominantly on the sea, and my selection of it was primarily for lake use. However my uptake is temporarily on hold due to a house move and the fact it's getting it's yardstick rating screwed up and they are not protesting sufficiently loudly about it.. However as much as the Zero appears to have everything going for it, there are things the Aero delivers that it doesn't.

 

Ignoring the sailing for a moment, which there are differences but if you're me, at 67 kgs you're a bit stuck between underpowered and overpowered but where the Aero scores is on handling on and off the trailer, not only due to its weight, but for the fact there are things to grab hold of, edges. It's also a 'drier' boat to sail the Zero does start getting wet when the breeze is up and in the winter wet = cold so I wasn't looking forward to that either.

 

The Zero also has this little sticking up lump underneath that nobody on our beach liked with the obvious worry one beach graunch and it might be gone, that may not be the case, but it is a worry, it's a baler thing. They were not happy either, helping to get it back on the trailer out of the water because there's nothing to grab hold of, so wether you call it a beach toy or a beach boat, the Aero is better around beach sea interfaces, there are also grumbles about it's downwind wave performance although personally although its nose did dive, it never went right down the mine to the point it worried me, but then they were not particularly big waves when I used it on the sea, the wind hadn't built long enough to get our usual wave length.

 

Sailing quality the Zero has it upwind by a country mile, the Aero you need to work at to keep it 'in the groove' off wind however I felt the Aero came unstuck a lot quicker than the Zero although I felt happier in the Zero on a dead run or trying to run by the lee, but on a straight broad reach the Aero has it away, with the Zero preferring a tighter reach.

 

Then there's the rig, here the Zero has the advantage the 8.1 is a good compromise size and the controls all good, the Aero has a marmite sail which sadly most of the regular types seem to hate which I find weird since there are an equal number of them that go all gooey eyed when someone puts shiny wooden coffee table dodging things in front of them and a dacron rig is no worse than a bloody bonetti built contender in my mind except you pay more for the coffin. The size range however i regard as a disadvantage, I liked the 9mtr but felt I couldn't hold it much above 10-12 knots, the 7 I didn't think was big enough but I didn't get much use of it in any decent wind.

 

Then there are the trick 'bits'. The Aero scores on polished 'extras', cupholder, carbon look trailing edges on the foils, rear gates to stop the rope going out the back and an absolute dream device for attaching the rudder to the pintles, plus the general finish to the boat they just look, well a bit more 21st century boy. Not saying the Zero doesn't have some bonus features like the wire main halyard and the boom attachment, the Aero just does it all better.

 

So, you see it's not an out and out straight choice, there are lots of features going for both boats, on paper I should go with an Aero if I wanted one boat for both bits of water I sail on, but I prefer the Zero even if I'd only really get to use it on the lake, but, there is also something else very tasty waiting in the wings that ticks all my particular boxes and I need to give that a try now, light, retracting centreboard, decent yardstick, small rig and comparable with other boats sailing or soon to be sailing at my club.

 

Nice to have some choice for a change, it's been long enough.

Thanks for this - nice to get a balanced view

 

Interested to hear about the PY arguments going on with the Zero -

 

Overall I get the impression the Zero is quicker but quicker than what the 7 rig - clearly but it it quicker than the 9 around the cans

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The Aero has a cupholder? No contest!

 

So does the D-Zero....... part of the cockpit drain assembly, perfect for a bottle (and the toe strap keeps it in place).

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Interested to hear about the PY arguments going on with the Zero -

 

Overall I get the impression the Zero is quicker but quicker than what the 7 rig - clearly but it it quicker than the 9 around the cans

 

The PY argument is 1 persons voice, actual D-Zero owners have taken the right approach and are currently sailing off a variety of number from 1010 to 1050. Once this data gets in to the PYS system an EN will get issued.

 

FWIW I would expect an Aero 9 to be quicker than a D-Zero on a reach. The hull is 10kg lighter and the sail 1sqm bigger......

 

At the recent Battle of the classes races the Zero was faster over the water but with light and shifty winds the Aero got the better of the wind (and the Aero helm sailed the correct course I believe).

 

Stll time will tell once you get mere mortals in the boats racing boat on boat at clubs around the country.

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Here's my 2 cents, as an Aero fan (and Laser sailor / owner). I think the choice between the two boats is a very subjective and personal one.

 

For me, the design, fittings, features and overall appearance of the Aero ticks all the boxes....I just like everything about it (...although I'll make myself a jazzier looking laminate sail).

 

I've test sailed the Aero, and was delighted with its performance, and I have ordered one (the 9). As a "full grown adult", I prefer the bigger rig of the Aero.

 

On the other hand, the appearance of the Zero hull / deck / and especially the transom is a turn-off for me. I like its rig and sail, but not the hull, transom, deck, fittings or cockpit.

I'm sure that it's a great boat. I just don't like it.

 

I'll be sailing the Aero on a lake in France, simply for the exercise and enjoyment of it, not racing.....and I don't give a damn about whether there's a fleet of the one or the other.

I use my Laser the same way, down in Baja, Mexico.

 

I have shown pictures of the two boats to many of my sailing friends, and we are quite divided about the appeal and appearance of the two boats. So I guess it's a bit like preferences in cars, motorcycles, guitars, planes etc. Whatever turns your crank.

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I REALLY don't subscribe to the "buy what others are sailing" school of thought, otherwise I'd be getting bored/frustrated/pains in our Laser fleet instead of loving my sailing as one of 2 D-Ones at our Club.

Buy the boat you want. Really want.

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............ but, there is also something else very tasty waiting in the wings that ticks all my particular boxes and I need to give that a try now, light, retracting centreboard, decent yardstick, small rig and comparable with other boats sailing or soon to be sailing at my club.

Any more clues as to what is in the wings?

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Overall I get the impression the Zero is quicker but quicker than what the 7 rig - clearly but it it quicker than the 9 around the cans

It'll be whichever sailor is quicker, they are that close, I also suspect that I'd need to be a better sailor than me in the Aero to beat me in the Zero if you get my meaning, it's harder work to make go, very good sailors, it'll be who makes the least mistakes, what one gives away in one area, it takes back in another, it really is just a personal choice decision or I suspect brand association from previous relationships.

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Any more clues as to what is in the wings

 

It's a reworking of the Blaze, built lighter, narrower racks, smaller rig, or at least that's what it was one minute, then it was a Blaze with a smaller rig renamed as 'Fire' which could also work for me since suddenly in the past few weeks two more Blazes have shown up at our club in the hands of sailors I regard as better than me and thus would provide a challenge, but at 67 kgs I'd have a problem when it's windy so a 7.5 mtr rig would do the job nicely, either way it's got to be worth a tryout before committing to something new for next season.

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And there you have it, succinctly put. If you plan to race, you will spend a lot of time going upwind- over half the time spent on a race course is usually going to windward, probably more.

 

So if there really is no 'infrastructure' reason to choose one over the other, choose the one which actually goes to windward nicely.

 

If you want to groove ride off the beach, get a windsurfer ;-)

 

Sailing quality the Zero has it upwind by a country mile

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Interested to hear about the PY arguments going on with the Zero -

 

Overall I get the impression the Zero is quicker but quicker than what the 7 rig - clearly but it it quicker than the 9 around the cans

 

The PY argument is 1 persons voice, actual D-Zero owners have taken the right approach and are currently sailing off a variety of number from 1010 to 1050. Once this data gets in to the PYS system an EN will get issued.

 

FWIW I would expect an Aero 9 to be quicker than a D-Zero on a reach. The hull is 10kg lighter and the sail 1sqm bigger......

 

At the recent Battle of the classes races the Zero was faster over the water but with light and shifty winds the Aero got the better of the wind (and the Aero helm sailed the correct course I believe).

 

Stll time will tell once you get mere mortals in the boats racing boat on boat at clubs around the country.

 

 

And anyone with half a braincell would realise these two new classes could be sailed together very happily at most amateur levels- inside one 'fleet' without that divisive handicap nonsense.

 

Hell, chuck a Rooster 8.1 rigged Laser in for good measure and get the poor sods owning them out from Rasty's baby choppers....

 

The best sailed boat will win on the water - as demonstrated by the Holman/Pistol clash. One cut a piece I believe.

 

Sadly, Hell will freeze over before dinghy sailors accept categories over classes for their racing.

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The performance of the boats is very similar and the PY argument will sort itself out. As far as I am aware Dan is saying Dzero 1050 and RS are saying aero9 at 1040 and aero7 at 1065. It looks like both boats will have enough returns to prove a decent rough number quickly, so personally I wouldn't get concerned over PY. Clearly if there is a bias of venue for returns, then that may affect peoples own sailing location decisions.

 

Upwind the Dzero feels to have more form stability, but the feel is also probably influenced by the wide decks and the lower freeboard. Its nice and not as demanding upwind. The aero is very sensitive upwind to mainsheet tension so feels more twitchy and needs quite a bit more kinetic input. I would guess the waterline on the zero is perhaps 23 cm longer and circa 10kg heavier so I would expect it to have the edge upwind but haven't yet sailed them alongside each other. Off wind, the lighter weight of the aero has an effect and it planes very early on in a bow up manner. Dzero needs more concentration off wind, so the reverse of upwind, but both gybe fine. Dzero has the nicer looking spars and sail, which set well and has a rear traveller and mast chocks which gives some more adjustment. aero rig looks more basic and dacron sail. it needs Kicker to set the shape, but once done it works well.

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Well, it's become an easy choice here in the U.S. because there's no place to buy a Zero

 

Jerry, We now have a shortlist of options and I will be meeting with the MD of Devoti Sailing later in the month to get some decisions going forward.

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Aero looked good at the boat show. We are far behind most of you in this argument but catching up. Video chat with Riki from RS and a brief look coming up on video today, or whenever Petey is done with it.

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As a general comment, I agree with everyone who has suggested the you try both boats and go for the one you enjoy most. It really is horses for courses and not knowing what 'floats you boat' it would be hard for others to give the best input. There are plenty of opportunities to get a test sail of both the Aero and D-Zero so why not? I know you will enjoy sailing both the Aero and the D-Zero but, for sure, you will find that one is much closer to what you are looking for than the other.

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Rodney - are there going to be any demo boats at the 1st D-Zero Open Meeting at Oxford SC on 25 Oct? I can't sail one as I'll be thrashing round (embarrassing myself) in the D-One, but wondered...

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Its impossible to embarass yourself in a d-one because they are so brilliant...so by association so are you. I am sure thats what I was telling myself when floating next to it in the solent a few months ago :) .

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Rodney - are there going to be any demo boats at the 1st D-Zero Open Meeting at Oxford SC on 25 Oct? I can't sail one as I'll be thrashing round (embarrassing myself) in the D-One, but wondered...

 

I believe Suntouched are taking 3 Demo boats to the event, Rodney is the person to contact about getting the use of one (possibly before racing starts).

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It's a reworking of the Blaze, built lighter, narrower racks, smaller rig, or at least that's what it was one minute, then it was a Blaze with a smaller rig renamed as 'Fire' which could also work for me since suddenly in the past few weeks two more Blazes have shown up at our club in the hands of sailors I regard as better than me....

 

The ‘Fire’ rig is a modest 8.8m sail that sets very well on the standard Blaze spars. It is a Blaze development mainly aimed at the light(er), young(er), old(er) and females who find life a bit tough whenever we get a ‘proper’ breeze. We’ve had a lot of people over the years who love the style of Blaze sailing but realy needed something more suited when the wind gets up – and we want them all in the Blaze family. It is not about being less fit it is simply that these groupings generally do not have the same endurance or upper body strength of ‘regular’ male adults. They want/like the Blaze but also want to enjoy their racing and don’t want to be blown out every time it gets interesting.

 

The Blaze has generous leverage (wings @ 2.48m) and the reduction of sail area and revised cut down to 8.8m makes everything very controlled and relatively easy for them. There is obviously some compromise to overall pace but in the higher breeze conditions the boat is still quite quick and simply wonderful to sail with exceptionally light sheet loadings and helm ....

 

We are also trialling a narrow wing for ‘Fire’. However the testers so far almost universally prefer the standard retractable Blaze wing system. They seem quite prepared to accept the modest weight penalty involved with the full size wing to ensure they still have the leverage ... As developer we are happy either way but life is rather simpler if they do vote this way ! Short term we are offering trials to those interested in both versions.

 

ext season Blaze-Fire rigs (and their drivers) will enjoy taking part at Blaze championship and other events. Greame you could even be there as well – get hold of a decent late Blaze, just buy a Fire sail and enjoy ! If it does not 'do it' for you just sell it - there is a low risk and ready market for the Blaze as you know. And if it is ever <F3 you could always switch to the Blaze sail. At your weight and with full Blaze-Fire leverage you would not exactly be slow in your exposed location. The Blaze does particularly well at these 'open' coastal locations as you know.

 

However my advice to all is as always – TRY everything you might like first.... and do it in the sort of conditions that should or could really challenge you if you can first .....

 

Mike L. (aka Blaze 720)

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Its impossible to embarass yourself in a d-one because they are so brilliant...

 

I did a great job embarrassing myself in Palma a few years back on the first D-One...

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Aero looked good at the boat show. We are far behind most of you in this argument but catching up. Video chat with Riki from RS and a brief look coming up on video today, or whenever Petey is done with it.

Which show? Annapolis?

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It's a reworking of the Blaze, built lighter, narrower racks, smaller rig, or at least that's what it was one minute, then it was a Blaze with a smaller rig renamed as 'Fire' which could also work for me since suddenly in the past few weeks two more Blazes have shown up at our club in the hands of sailors I regard as better than me....

 

The ‘Fire’ rig is a modest 8.8m sail that sets very well on the standard Blaze spars. It is a Blaze development mainly aimed at the light(er), young(er), old(er) and females who find life a bit tough whenever we get a ‘proper’ breeze. We’ve had a lot of people over the years who love the style of Blaze sailing but realy needed something more suited when the wind gets up – and we want them all in the Blaze family. It is not about being less fit it is simply that these groupings generally do not have the same endurance or upper body strength of ‘regular’ male adults. They want/like the Blaze but also want to enjoy their racing and don’t want to be blown out every time it gets interesting.

 

The Blaze has generous leverage (wings @ 2.48m) and the reduction of sail area and revised cut down to 8.8m makes everything very controlled and relatively easy for them. There is obviously some compromise to overall pace but in the higher breeze conditions the boat is still quite quick and simply wonderful to sail with exceptionally light sheet loadings and helm ....

 

We are also trialling a narrow wing for ‘Fire’. However the testers so far almost universally prefer the standard retractable Blaze wing system. They seem quite prepared to accept the modest weight penalty involved with the full size wing to ensure they still have the leverage ... As developer we are happy either way but life is rather simpler if they do vote this way ! Short term we are offering trials to those interested in both versions.

 

ext season Blaze-Fire rigs (and their drivers) will enjoy taking part at Blaze championship and other events. Greame you could even be there as well – get hold of a decent late Blaze, just buy a Fire sail and enjoy ! If it does not 'do it' for you just sell it - there is a low risk and ready market for the Blaze as you know. And if it is ever <F3 you could always switch to the Blaze sail. At your weight and with full Blaze-Fire leverage you would not exactly be slow in your exposed location. The Blaze does particularly well at these 'open' coastal locations as you know.

 

However my advice to all is as always – TRY everything you might like first.... and do it in the sort of conditions that should or could really challenge you if you can first .....

 

Mike L. (aka Blaze 720)

 

WRONG THREAD?

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It's a reworking of the Blaze, built lighter, narrower racks, smaller rig, or at least that's what it was one minute, then it was a Blaze with a smaller rig renamed as 'Fire' which could also work for me since suddenly in the past few weeks two more Blazes have shown up at our club in the hands of sailors I regard as better than me....

 

The ‘Fire’ rig is a modest 8.8m sail that sets very well on the standard Blaze spars. It is a Blaze development mainly aimed at the light(er), young(er), old(er) and females who find life a bit tough whenever we get a ‘proper’ breeze. We’ve had a lot of people over the years who love the style of Blaze sailing but realy needed something more suited when the wind gets up – and we want them all in the Blaze family. It is not about being less fit it is simply that these groupings generally do not have the same endurance or upper body strength of ‘regular’ male adults. They want/like the Blaze but also want to enjoy their racing and don’t want to be blown out every time it gets interesting.

 

The Blaze has generous leverage (wings @ 2.48m) and the reduction of sail area and revised cut down to 8.8m makes everything very controlled and relatively easy for them. There is obviously some compromise to overall pace but in the higher breeze conditions the boat is still quite quick and simply wonderful to sail with exceptionally light sheet loadings and helm ....

 

We are also trialling a narrow wing for ‘Fire’. However the testers so far almost universally prefer the standard retractable Blaze wing system. They seem quite prepared to accept the modest weight penalty involved with the full size wing to ensure they still have the leverage ... As developer we are happy either way but life is rather simpler if they do vote this way ! Short term we are offering trials to those interested in both versions.

 

ext season Blaze-Fire rigs (and their drivers) will enjoy taking part at Blaze championship and other events. Greame you could even be there as well – get hold of a decent late Blaze, just buy a Fire sail and enjoy ! If it does not 'do it' for you just sell it - there is a low risk and ready market for the Blaze as you know. And if it is ever <F3 you could always switch to the Blaze sail. At your weight and with full Blaze-Fire leverage you would not exactly be slow in your exposed location. The Blaze does particularly well at these 'open' coastal locations as you know.

 

However my advice to all is as always – TRY everything you might like first.... and do it in the sort of conditions that should or could really challenge you if you can first .....

 

Mike L. (aka Blaze 720)

 

WRONG THREAD?

Got to blame the Igrf for that one Rodney!!

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That and if you want an Aero you need to wait until March 2015 for delivery. You can have a D-Zero in 2-3 weeks given current experience (how RS are not getting any volume to market is beyond me unless they didn't set anything up until after they started getting orders).

 

 

I think comments like this are why these threads are so silly, and why I hesitate to participate, but I'll give it a shot.

 

 

RS has sold around 450 Aeros as of last week. They have capacity to build 500 a year and are planning to ramp that to 750 a year by Spring.

I believe the first boats have now landed on 5 continents, including some already in North America.

 

It's true, they are roughly sold out until April, but, production capabilities are quite massive, so it's more a matter of scale.

One of these boats is likely being built 2-3 a week, the other 12-15.

 

 

I think the analogy to the BMW vs. Aston Martin is probably the best.

Aston is, perhaps a 'better' car than the BMW, but the BMW is less expensive and much more attainable for regular folks. The BMW is ultimately the much more numerous option in the marketplace, based significantly on a lower pricing and ubiquitous distribution.

 

(you could argue this story is similar to a boat called a Laser, which probably isn't 'better' than a lot of boats over the last 40 years, but it surely is more popular).

 

--

I've sailed the Aero, but not the Zero yet.

 

I imagine, having spent time sailing the D-One vs. RS100 during a full day evaluation, that the D-Zero and Aero will be similarly appraised by sailors.

The Zero will be a bit more technical, tricky and perhaps challenging to sail well. It will appeal to those who really geek out at that and they will love it.

The Aero will be easier to sail well, but perhaps not as mind blowing to the hardcore sailing group.

 

I guess, depending on which market is larger (hardcore vs club sailors/recreational), we'll know by next spring based on sales data which boat most people actually chose to own.

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It's an interesting perspective WestCoast- the guys I know who've sailed both would say the Aero is harder to sail well- especially upwind, requiring more concentration to drive it with body mass, rather than letting the boat settle into the groove.

 

I'm reserving judgement in entirety, but having witnessed the weight drop from the RS100 proto to the production boat, frankly I'm not at convinced that a bit of mass in the hull isn't actually rather helpful- especially once the wind gets up a bit and you're self launching and taking the trolley back above the tideline.

 

I've just ordered a new waveboard- I actually went for the slightly heavier construction out of two options. I'm not bothered about early planing- I was planted security and robustness out of a beach toy.

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That and if you want an Aero you need to wait until March 2015 for delivery. You can have a D-Zero in 2-3 weeks given current experience (how RS are not getting any volume to market is beyond me unless they didn't set anything up until after they started getting orders).

 

 

I think comments like this are why these threads are so silly, and why I hesitate to participate, but I'll give it a shot.

 

 

RS has sold around 450 Aeros as of last week. They have capacity to build 500 a year and are planning to ramp that to 750 a year by Spring.

I believe the first boats have now landed on 5 continents, including some already in North America.

 

It's true, they are roughly sold out until April, but, production capabilities are quite massive, so it's more a matter of scale.

One of these boats is likely being built 2-3 a week, the other 12-15.

 

 

I think the analogy to the BMW vs. Aston Martin is probably the best.

Aston is, perhaps a 'better' car than the BMW, but the BMW is less expensive and much more attainable for regular folks. The BMW is ultimately the much more numerous option in the marketplace, based significantly on a lower pricing and ubiquitous distribution.

 

(you could argue this story is similar to a boat called a Laser, which probably isn't 'better' than a lot of boats over the last 40 years, but it surely is more popular).

 

--

I've sailed the Aero, but not the Zero yet.

 

I imagine, having spent time sailing the D-One vs. RS100 during a full day evaluation, that the D-Zero and Aero will be similarly appraised by sailors.

The Zero will be a bit more technical, tricky and perhaps challenging to sail well. It will appeal to those who really geek out at that and they will love it.

The Aero will be easier to sail well, but perhaps not as mind blowing to the hardcore sailing group.

 

I guess, depending on which market is larger (hardcore vs club sailors/recreational), we'll know by next spring based on sales data which boat most people actually chose to own.

Funnily enough I think the Dzero is easier to jump in and sail upwind well due to the aft sheeting and the rig/sail combination which almost self sets. The aero's rig works perfectly well, but is not immediately so 'self setting'. It also is far more sensitive to mainsheet tension upwind. Offwind the zero needs a bit more concentration, but I don't think they fall into radically different categories.

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Aero looked good at the boat show. We are far behind most of you in this argument but catching up. Video chat with Riki from RS and a brief look coming up on video today, or whenever Petey is done with it.

Which show? Annapolis?

yep.

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That and if you want an Aero you need to wait until March 2015 for delivery. You can have a D-Zero in 2-3 weeks given current experience (how RS are not getting any volume to market is beyond me unless they didn't set anything up until after they started getting orders).

 

 

I think comments like this are why these threads are so silly, and why I hesitate to participate, but I'll give it a shot.

 

 

RS has sold around 450 Aeros as of last week. They have capacity to build 500 a year and are planning to ramp that to 750 a year by Spring.

I believe the first boats have now landed on 5 continents, including some already in North America.

 

It's true, they are roughly sold out until April, but, production capabilities are quite massive, so it's more a matter of scale.

One of these boats is likely being built 2-3 a week, the other 12-15.

 

 

I think the analogy to the BMW vs. Aston Martin is probably the best.

Aston is, perhaps a 'better' car than the BMW, but the BMW is less expensive and much more attainable for regular folks. The BMW is ultimately the much more numerous option in the marketplace, based significantly on a lower pricing and ubiquitous distribution.

 

(you could argue this story is similar to a boat called a Laser, which probably isn't 'better' than a lot of boats over the last 40 years, but it surely is more popular).

 

--

I've sailed the Aero, but not the Zero yet.

 

I imagine, having spent time sailing the D-One vs. RS100 during a full day evaluation, that the D-Zero and Aero will be similarly appraised by sailors.

The Zero will be a bit more technical, tricky and perhaps challenging to sail well. It will appeal to those who really geek out at that and they will love it.

The Aero will be easier to sail well, but perhaps not as mind blowing to the hardcore sailing group.

 

I guess, depending on which market is larger (hardcore vs club sailors/recreational), we'll know by next spring based on sales data which boat most people actually chose to own.

 

There is not a 'significant' price difference between the 2 boats though (certainly not in the UK. in fact a D-Zero is currently £5,500 for the boat, the Aero is listed at £5,480 to my knowledge, by the time you load on the essential extras such as trolley and covers the difference is pretty much the same).

 

I have not sailed the Aero, I am sure at some point I will.

 

Comments that I have heard from people who have sailed both boats are:

 

1) The Zero is a nicer sail upwind. The Aero is a bit twitchy and difficult to keep 'in the groove'

2) The Aero planes earlier offwind (with the 9 rig). Hardly surprising, the hull is 10kgs lighter. The D-Zero requires a little bit more effort. Both are a nice stable ride once planing.

 

Round the course time will tell what these boats actually get sailed to

 

It is horses for courses. People are generally swaying to one boat or the other. The advantage for the Aero has is that RS is a much larger company than Devoti and has dealers already established in other markets.

 

I note that there is still no answer as to how many of these 450 are for private owners and how many are for corporate clients. I suspect a large quantity are corporate.

 

In the UK at least the D-Zero is getting to market quicker than the Aero so quoting timescales and waiting lists is by no means a silly thing to do. Perhaps RS were a little wary after having got their fingers burnt a little with the RS100.

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Rodney - are there going to be any demo boats at the 1st D-Zero Open Meeting at Oxford SC on 25 Oct? I can't sail one as I'll be thrashing round (embarrassing myself) in the D-One, but wondered...

Bootscooter, Yes we will be bringing a number of D-Zeros to Oxford :) Some are taken up for racing but I will keep a couple back for test sailing! From what I hear you have no chance of being embarrassed in your D-One, in fact I am expecting a podium for you!!!

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I have not sailed the Aero, I am sure at some point I will.

 

Comments that I have heard from people

 

 

 

Sail the boat and then make your comments. Or identify the 'people' so that the comments you've 'heard' can be evaluated properly.

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I have not sailed the Aero, I am sure at some point I will.

 

Comments that I have heard from people

 

 

Sail the boat and then make your comments. Or identify the 'people' so that the comments you've 'heard' can be evaluated properly.

Clean - with respect, I thought this site had a no real name / 'outing' policy?

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I have not sailed the Aero, I am sure at some point I will.

 

Comments that I have heard from people

 

 

Sail the boat and then make your comments. Or identify the 'people' so that the comments you've 'heard' can be evaluated properly.

Clean - with respect, I thought this site had a no real name / 'outing' policy?

 

Correct and I will respect that.

 

I will also declare I am a D-Zero owner so no secret which way I went.

 

A simple browsing of other sailing related forums and facebook pages should get you some of the information you require though if you really want to find what people are saying.

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It would appear that there are more zero fans here on da than aero fans

 

 

Its not fans really Marmalade, more that Devoti have been delivering boats to happy customers since the end of June. Where as even here in the UK (home of RS) there has been little seen of the Aero.....Which given the hype has led to questions.

 

Its important to remember that people get a little tribal with their chosen dinghy brands, bit like football teams. The right thing to do if you cant decide is to sail both. If like me you have reasons for never buying an RS again, then the decision is easier. I am not saying the Aero is a bad boat, i'm sure its not. If you like the stickers and the branded water bottle then great. But in this instance even if Oman sailing had finished developing the boat instead of RS (they were the original developers i believe) I wouldn't buy one. Not for sailing reasons, but because i don't really understand the whole sales pitch/Marketed concept. In one breath its a racing dinghy, in the other its a stackable dinghy ideal for sailing schools, in one moment its super light then next its super strong, next its well mannered but then its super light and i hear twitchy. Perhaps its a jack of all trades, but removing my biased away from anything that isn't RS for one minute, its a confusing message for me. The boat is sold on price, but in the next sentence we are told there has been no compromise on spec and quality. Call me a pessimist, i just don't believe you can have ALL of these things. I do however understand why the murmurings of fleets of Aero's has developed. If i had 10 similar boats all agee to set up a new fleet, that would put a massive bearing on my buying decisions.

 

Now i have to declare an interest. I own a D-Zero. I previously was Rodney's D-One Demo Donkey, so i know the Devoti Brand. But i am a consumer and i have tried most single handers here available in the UK, I wanted a simple boat with a single sail. That i would sail in ANYTHING. Be it Massive wind and waves or drifting around on my local river on a lazy summers evening. But I wanted a racing boat....A simple, lightweight, racing boat. A boat that carries crew weight! A boat that had the latest bells and whistles, but didn't take 45 minutes to rig and set up from trailer. I wanted a modern Laser, but lighter and more efficient. i was given two options and that was...The Laser or the Zero. Given my friendship with Dan and Rodney and the fact i had discounted the laser (which by the way is still a cracking boat 40 years on) the choice was clear to me.

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It's not so much a 'fan' thing, it's just about choice hitting the market so as a consumer we rake over the finer points/inconsequential when making our minds up.

 

Let's be honest - if only one existed, either one, then this topic would read Devoti/RS Zero verses Laser (remember, the RS Aero was originally worked up to be the RS Zero until they got jumped, sorry, 'chose to refocus' or whatever words came out).

 

That would be a dull conversation, one we've had many times over - stick with the incumbent class racing hack (cite boring legal argument, replica sails off-topic posts as reasons why not, verses $1000 dollar 'competitive' boats to the positive); or move to a more ergonomic, technically advanced new boat and re-boot the system. Given that scenario, I'd pick the re-boot option, either with RS or Devoti backing- ever the eternal optimist that there's something better out there for general purpose club racing than the sodding Laser.

 

In retrospect, I do wonder if RS could have really, really changed the game this time.... they had a perfect opportunity to think outside the box. Faced with the dilemma of change their artwork by one letter, or roll out regardless, I could argue to go with the latter. Can you just imagine if the OWNERS of both 'Zeros' took proper ownership and set up a framework for their racing- bring the one you liked and come racing... no handicaps, no partisanship. Just a good laugh between mates old and new in similar enough boats- bottle of wine for the first Devoti (supplied by Riki), bottle of wine for the first RS (supplied by Rodney). Plenty of prizes for the youngsters and newbies, a grand master prize, and of course, a women's prize and above all, nothing but a baseball cap for the hiking bunny who inevitably wins overall.

 

Now that would be progress- but expecting the sailing industry to cooperate & collaborate, rather than just 'compete' with largely similar products, even with the 2 separate launches in recent history in similar circumstances to gauge market reception on. Yeah, pipe dream, I know.....

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Just with regards to the name thing. I had known about the Devoti project for a couple of years and from year dot it was project Zero. I no know one likes to believe it and the conspiracy theory is more fun. But I happen to know most people thought the Aero was going to be called the RS50. The D-Zero branding was because it was the D-Ones little sister. If that makes sense.

 

Sure as hell was funny from the outside, both new classes launching with what seemed the same name!

 

I like the idea of the open class rules Jimbo. We had similar racing at POSH with the D1's and RS100's a few years back, the py was irrelevant. However some numb-nut in the 100 fleet requested the following year that the 100's had their own start. Now looking at their turnouts perhaps they would of been better at seeking to befriend rather than push away!

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Thanks for stealing my thunder- I was holding that example back for when some RS fanboy poo-poo'ed the idea ;-)

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I don't think the fact that it stacks or is light in anyway means its not a racing dinghy. The stacking has an impact on looks, as it has a flat foredeck all the way back to the mainsheet, but that doesn't mean it isn't a racing boat. I suspect RS didn't want to be hit with the Laser comparison early on despite it being head to head in UK club sailing at least, especially with the 3 sail comparison. The Dzero is a prettier boat no doubt, but the aero looks fine.

 

I understand that at one inland club which has 8 aero boats, the top three club sailors are killing themselves trying to beat each other as the sailing is so close. I guess thats the benefit of one design with little rig adjustment. On something like a phantom, rig choice, sail cut, set up and which of the myriad of stringy pull makes a massive difference. In the aero its more like the laser. Turn up, put the rig in the same hole with the same rake etc and pull up the same sail and you only have basic controls to work with so keeping your head out of the boat, thinking smarter , being fitter etc is what will win races. Sounds good to me.

 

Zero gives you some rake control and a rear traveller, which will help even out different weights in the same breeze and control the leach more, but is still fundamentally a simple boat and they are both all the better for that.

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agreed totally-

 

As a general observation I think it's a shame there's not much punter feedback out there on the Aero for these discussions, the only two reviews I've read are from West Coast (a US dealer) and Y&Y, by Pistol... it leaves me feeling that we're really going to have to wait for some passing references on the Sunsail Trip Advisor entry at this rate.

 

Those 8 inland sailors... are they all in their own boats, or have they got demos on loan? Any chance any of them will show up at the SJ series this winter?

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It cant be Bowmoor they only have 2 racing in their Autumn series. One sailed by a former RS dealer. I can find out if needs be.

 

Woodman, that's a good Summary, FWIW i dont think the rake control on the zero is going to have a wide range. It helps with universal fitments of parts as they are the same as the D1. I also think the traveller range will be fairly limied until the breeze really pics up. I have left mine in the factory position. Whilst i learn how to sail the boat. My tacking needs work as i am being too clumsy at the moment, the other Zero at my club is walking all over me in terms of tacking despite losing out to me in boat speed! I am currently being thrashed by a lad that i dont htink has ever beaten me before. My ego has taken a right kicking! But he has put man hours into sailing the Zero. I have taken a year out of sailing! Big wind forecast this weekend! I'm going to give it some salad! If its liek the D1 the windier it gets the better these boats are!!!!!!

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It cant be Bowmoor they only have 2 racing in their Autumn series. One sailed by a former RS dealer. I can find out if needs be.

 

Woodman, that's a good Summary, FWIW i dont think the rake control on the zero is going to have a wide range. It helps with universal fitments of parts as they are the same as the D1. I also think the traveller range will be fairly limied until the breeze really pics up. I have left mine in the factory position. Whilst i learn how to sail the boat. My tacking needs work as i am being too clumsy at the moment, the other Zero at my club is walking all over me in terms of tacking despite losing out to me in boat speed! I am currently being thrashed by a lad that i dont htink has ever beaten me before. My ego has taken a right kicking! But he has put man hours into sailing the Zero. I have taken a year out of sailing! Big wind forecast this weekend! I'm going to give it some salad! If its liek the D1 the windier it gets the better these boats are!!!!!!

 

The traveller doesn;t seem to make much of a difference. I had a little play with it last time there was some wind. The stock 400mm from the centreline seems to work well, might be worth seeing if it helps this coming weekend though! Not looking forward to hoisting and dropping the sail in big winds though, I am still a bit precious about it as it is so new still!

 

At least unlike the other guy who has bought one my sail is not brand spanking new and never been up the mast, he is keen to sail his regardless!

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Bowmoor? Isn't that where someone fell out of their Aero and couldn't get back onboard again?

 

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Traveller should help the lighter guys when the breeze is up and its right off. It will also allow the leach shape to be adjusted well off the centreline when its very light. Because its an aft traveller the range is small, so won't work like a Tasar or D-one.

 

The boat has the mast heel thing and chocks per the d-one. If so sticking the heel forward and chocks in front should still be useful to depower I'd have thought.

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In principle it should help, however it will alter the boom hight and alter the amount of sheet tension you can apply. i dont think i will adjust it more than one slip chock either way. Sure its goign to be quicker to depower the traditional way of slapping the cunno on raisin the board and dropping the traveller slightly. Anyway looking at the forecast we will see this weekend! Once i have my trim sorted through tacks i will start tuning the rig, time to buy a new note book!

 

I don't know what traveller arrangement a Tasar has, but i am obviously pretty used to the D1, which again although has a full length track you shouldnt use more than about 12 inch of movement, or so i was told by Jim Hunt when asking him about rig dynamics in my early days in the class. It always felt fast to drop the traveller and foot off but rarely paid on the track! But you are right a transom traveller is very different to a centre traveller system.

 

Anyway, D0 Tuning aside. I will be good to see some Aero's turning up around the UK next year. its exciting times seeing these two new single handers. Both with very different ways of achieving similar design briefs.

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There is one thing no one has mentioned. Nick Peters, good egg, guru and until recently Technical Director at RS, has taken up Solo sailing. Gotta wonder why not an Aero...

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He's had one for a while, and doing well too. Given sea sailing and 60 Solos at Hayling, no way I'd have sold mine for either of these either... Not yet anyway.

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In the interests of fairness, good journalism and balance, I think Nick took up goslow sailing when he stood down from the board (MD I think - Al Southon was and remains tech director) as there was (and to some extent still is) a massive Solo scene at his home club HISC, and the Aero or what it was called at the time was not even a twinkle in the guys at RS' eyes. Will keep an eye to see if he jumps ship mind!

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Ah, thanks for the correction. Still, he has, quite literally (well not quite), just jumped ship from a Boon Solo to a Beer Solo - and plugged it on the front page of Y&Y.

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Nick Peters, good egg, guru and until recently Technical Director at RS, has taken up Solo sailing. Gotta wonder why not an Aero...

 

Simple answer - there's a large Solo fleet at HISC.

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But if the Aero and Zero want to succeed they will have to pinch sailors from established fleets. There is a large overlap in the demographic for the Aero and the Solo, but if you can't persuade your former boss to junk the comfort of established fleet racing for the promise of a better land, why should anyone else take a punt n the new class?

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I am not sure you have to take sailors from established fleets. Fleets age. It could be possible to succeed by bringing a whole new, or second generation of people to sailing. In a way that all fleets grow.

 

If you look at the fraction of the population that currently sails, at least in the USA, there is lot of room to grow the sport.

 

And it might be classes like the Aero and Zero that do it. Existing classes have not, to date, demonstrated an ability to drive growth in the sport. At least in the states. And they have had lots of chances. They have all been around for 10 or more years.

 

You don't have to steal to grow. Case in point. I recently participated in a great regatta at a great venue and there were zero lasers in attendance.

 

If there is no current participation there is no theft.

 

It is different in other places, but marketing can be aimed for growth if the companies want to do it.

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But if the Aero and Zero want to succeed they will have to pinch sailors from established fleets. There is a large overlap in the demographic for the Aero and the Solo, but if you can't persuade your former boss to junk the comfort of established fleet racing for the promise of a better land, why should anyone else take a punt n the new class?

 

Not everyone wants to sail a Solo, dogwatch being a case in point.

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I think sales of the aero are to quite a lot of Laser sailors, or perhaps sailors that also have a Laser. it's taken some sales from the supernova and streaker as well. I wouldn't expect a club with a sixty strong solo fleet to change, but I think a few clubs that don't have ready made fleets of existing boats are buying. Same could be said of the Dzero, certainly at Grafham.

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A big market for the aero are ex Tera sailors..... Those already in the rs family who are moving out of the Tera... I know of several at the local club and these guys are superb helmsmen and used to heavy competition... Not looking forward to those guys and gals whipping our collective asses .... Off to sail the aero the weekend after next

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Have fun- FWIW this thread has probably showed you that another bit of punter feedback would be most appreciated- especially if you can try both!

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WRONG THREAD?

Got to blame the Igrf for that one Rodney!!

 

No need to SHOUT !! anyweay. Did not realise it was a 'closed' thread. Somebody mentioned our boats (Blaze/Fire/Halo), we responded, simple as that. It is not our policy to 'bomb' alien threads and as you may know when Blaze/Fire/Halo also got introduced by others in the UK 'Yachts & Yachting' Aero/Zero threads we put up a Halo/Fire thread to avoid treading on anyones (possibly sensitive ?) toes.

 

 

Mike L.

 

PS - And for the avoidance of any doubt we do like both *ero offerings ... just maybe not as much as our own boats ! But then they are aimed at different customers I guess.

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But then they are aimed at different customers I guess.

 

 

really? I would have thought with the Fire Blaze and Halo you'd be aiming at exactly the same customers as the RS Aero 5, 7 and 9.

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Jimmy ..... as an ex-board racer I'm a bit of an anarchist at heart. And then again I've also raced lead mines as well .. and the odd dinghy or three along the way - common factor ? Well several naturally but one thing is for sure, virtually everyone has used multiple sail combinations and more than one rig since the year dot. Hell even Laser have been doing same for decades. You will find some overlap everywhere if you want !

 

I think the Aero is a really great boat and even raced against and alongside a couple prototypes over 2 years ago (when called 'Mirage') for a full week at Camel Week when they were being tested way back then.. even before it became an RS project. It might even become the new Laser for all I know ... but I do not see Aero as competition and more than RS probably see our products worrying them.

 

They are really rather different beasts just as the Laser was and is in comparison to the Blaze family (nearly x 2 width for a start !)... It would be a mighty boring world if we all went for the same boats, wore the same clothes, voted the same way .. or even started to believe all politicians, 'marketing' people ... or 'opinions', for that is what they are, on the various forums. Guess I really am an old anarchist through and through.

 

Any way - no more from me on this thread for all sorts of good reasons !

 

Mike L.

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Love reading the propaganda from the D-0 love in!

 

I remember by Grandma telling me that "Empty Vessels make the most noise". The Polish say the cow which moos a lot gives little milk

 

look it up...

 

Enjoying the Aero immensely as are the wife and the 10 year old, each with their own rig. It is a little dinghy which is exceptional due to how light it is. In my view that is by far its USP. The experience of a gust hitting changes what you do and how you think about what you are doing. Backing off is a thing of the past and you just drive it hard. The hull is a boat, the rig is standard, but what you have to do is so different if you have a background sailing heavier boats. It is impossible not to come in smiling.

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Glad you're enjoying it eastcoastdude. Do you not get arguments over whose turn it is if you have to share the one hull?

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Love reading the propaganda from the D-0 love in!

 

I remember by Grandma telling me that "Empty Vessels make the most noise". The Polish say the cow which moos a lot gives little milk

 

look it up...

 

At the risk of dragging this into a bun fight......

 

Can you show me the RS Aero class rules?

Can you show me evidence of RS Aeros getting together and having a great open meeting?

Can you tell me if the RS Aero Class Association has a constitution yet and if it is being run by the boat owners for the good of the boat?

 

I know the answers to the above, let us see if you do.

 

Anyway, enough of the bun fight.

 

It is good to see an Aero owner chiming in and good that you (and the rest of the family) are enjoying the boat, after all we all love sailing regardless of what we sail!

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^

 

Not really the right questions, as afaik there is an umbrella class association structure for RS classes and people who buy RS boats know they are buying into that structure.

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^

 

Not really the right questions, as afaik there is an umbrella class association structure for RS classes and people who buy RS boats know they are buying into that structure.

 

Err absolutely the right questions IMO as without a CA or formalised class rules the builder can make any change they damn well please and there is nothing the owners of the boats can do.

 

Plus without approved class rules I am pretty sure the RYA will not allow them to form a CA (the same goes for the ISAF). RS are touting an International Class Association for the Aero in various places....something they need to be careful doing as currently it is not affiliated with or approved by the sports governing bodies.

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And what in the D-Zero class rule stops the builder making changes? Nothing that I can see. The D-Zero class rule is a very slim document indeed.

 

IMO both RS and Devoti can be relied on to do nothing stupid and realistically, that's the reassurance buyers have got.

 

Btw I spent some years drafting and managing class rule changes as a class association officer for a SMOD class and have some idea how it works. The class association is not in charge.

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Guys, are you sure the Aero will fall into the classic RS Class Association- I heard it was going down a different, independent path. FWIW - I see that as a good thing if it's true, means that Aero sailors can join up Lasers, D-zeros, OKs etc for joint opens, rather than going around to the Inlaws in the RS family.

 

And EastCoastDude - love your final paragraph, genuinely do; but lay off the propoganda accusations bullshit would you, because there's plenty to have a go at in the other direction if you want that particular shitfight.... It's nice just to have some more Aero punter feedback, that alone brings balance to this thread. For a family dinghy, I'd pick the Aero probably too- same as we had a Topper when I was kid for exactly the type of sailing you describe.

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Guys, are you sure the Aero will fall into the classic RS Class Association

There's an Aero class association website under the overall RS Class Association http://www.rssailing.org/

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Ah ok, the guy I spoke (deposit down) suggested it was going to be managed independently. Happy to be corrected, although I'd want those class rules around sail size tightened up before I parted with any cash- once bitten, twice shy :-)

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Ah ok, the guy I spoke (deposit down) suggested it was going to be managed independently. Happy to be corrected, although I'd want those class rules around sail size tightened up before I parted with any cash- once bitten, twice shy :-)

 

You need to wait until (at least) Easter 2015 for those.....

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