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edouard

Macif "Ultime" trimaran

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There were a few press releases concerning François Gabart's future program, i.e. an Ultime trimaran, in the fall of 2013 who all basically boiled down to this:

 

http://www.macifcourseaularge.com/actualites/un-trimaran-aux-couleurs-du-groupe-macif-en-2015

 

Since then all I've seen/heard amounted to a deafening silence.

 

The launch was scheduled beginning 2015, which isn't that far away, any news anyone anywhere?

 

 

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We had something up a couple months ago when everything was full-on and his sponsor was still very happy, but haven't heard much since then. That usually means that everything is going very well.

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^Jockey. May this thread become zee place where spies post their "illegal" pics, vids or whatever :)

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Clean, didn't you tease us in the past week or so about a RTW race in the plans? Don't know if you were talking of the big solo race that Gabart et al were planning, or if it is a different, crewed race (The Race?). Can you share anything more?

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Clean, didn't you tease us in the past week or so about a RTW race in the plans? Don't know if you were talking of the big solo race that Gabart et al were planning, or if it is a different, crewed race (The Race?). Can you share anything more?

.

 

......''in a few days'' :mellow:

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According to some note I saw in Seahorse recently the boat is still in build.

The RTW race was announced maybe a year ago but I have not seen much since. Sodebo, Macif and BP. Not sure who else would be in and have any chance of winning under normal circumstances. I think it had stops/stages.

In terms of RTW I wonder if any of these boats could be used to challenge Francis Joyon record. Seems a bit unlikely.

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Clean, didn't you tease us in the past week or so about a RTW race in the plans? Don't know if you were talking of the big solo race that Gabart et al were planning, or if it is a different, crewed race (The Race?). Can you share anything more?

 

That was more than six months ago, and no one has been talking about it though I'm hearing that we'll know a lot more in about three weeks. Consensus is that Francois is going to be the driver of whatever race they come up with, because he's got the deepest sponsor pockets and they need something more than just record chasing to get max ROI.

 

I'd pay attention starting on the 6th of December...

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Gabart's boat is going well and due to be delivered mid 2015 (june-ish I think). I believe the RTW race is due to take place in 2017, its definitely not planned to have stages/stops. I think there will definitely be more than 3 boats on the start line. And all of them capable of beating Joyon's record given the right weather conditions.

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Clean, didn't you tease us in the past week or so about a RTW race in the plans? Don't know if you were talking of the big solo race that Gabart et al were planning, or if it is a different, crewed race (The Race?). Can you share anything more?

 

That was more than six months ago, and no one has been talking about it though I'm hearing that we'll know a lot more in about three weeks. Consensus is that Francois is going to be the driver of whatever race they come up with, because he's got the deepest sponsor pockets and they need something more than just record chasing to get max ROI.

 

I'd pay attention starting on the 6th of December...

 

Did you get a chance to talk to Bruno about future plans for The Race? Seems you were going to see him sometime over the past year and you indicated you wanted to talk to him about it. I would love to see another big crewed RTW race. It's been a LONG time since the last one (The Quest?).

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Gabart said today at the RdR's press conf that he will be back next edition with the maxi tri

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And Macif is signing in sailors, I know one name, but not sure what his sailing function will be. So no name calling.

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And Macif is signing in sailors, I know one name, but not sure what his sailing function will be. So no name calling.

Signing in sailors? Is this not a solo machine?

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Interesting build, looks like 2 panels glued to frames with a molded bottom

In post #11 it looks like the upper skin in the pic is still above the frames for the center hull. Would expect the edges to mate when the skin was set on the frames

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And Macif is signing in sailors, I know one name, but not sure what his sailing function will be. So no name calling.

Signing in sailors? Is this not a solo machine?

The boat needs people, even for a solo trip you need a boatcaptain, testing sailors and shoreteam.

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And Macif is signing in sailors, I know one name, but not sure what his sailing function will be. So no name calling.

Signing in sailors? Is this not a solo machine?

The boat needs people, even for a solo trip you need a boatcaptain, testing sailors and shoreteam.

 

That, and Macif has a whole "skipper Macif" program which goes beyond François Gabart and IMOCA/Ultime.

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And Macif is signing in sailors, I know one name, but not sure what his sailing function will be. So no name calling.

Signing in sailors? Is this not a solo machine?

The boat needs people, even for a solo trip you need a boatcaptain, testing sailors and shoreteam.

All the more reason why IDEC is so impressive. Don't see too many of these sorts involved on IDEC.

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And Macif is signing in sailors, I know one name, but not sure what his sailing function will be. So no name calling.

Signing in sailors? Is this not a solo machine?

The boat needs people, even for a solo trip you need a boatcaptain, testing sailors and shoreteam.

 

That, and Macif has a whole "skipper Macif" program which goes beyond François Gabart and IMOCA/Ultime.

The whole Skipper Macif program is totally separate from François Gabart's tri program.

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Forgive my ignorance but isnt all Gabart's experience in imoca and figaro? Yes, he's dominated both but isnt going to a maxi-tri quite a departure with one hell of a learning curve? I have no doubt he'll excel at this as well but is he leaving the imoca circuit for a while?

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Please bear in mind his Olympic Tornado background, as well as the fact that he is the reigning A-class champion of France.

 

I'm not suggesting an A-Class is an Ultimate Multihull, but with his skill level and experience as well as the massive amount of technical/crew support that can be found hanging around Lorient, it would be unwise to not take this campaign seriously.

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Interesting build, looks like 2 panels glued to frames with a molded bottom

In post #11 it looks like the upper skin in the pic is still above the frames for the center hull. Would expect the edges to mate when the skin was set on the frames

Right looks like 2' of air, so the panel was made away in a seperate mold or table and then lifted in place. Bottom of frames are round sp expect hull bottom will be also.

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The new MACIF trimaran is now being put together for a June launch.

 

"Construction of the maxi-trimaran began in early 2014. Among the substantial work still ahead is attaching the floats to the crossbeam, although painting has already started transforming the maxi-trimaran into the MACIF colours of blue, green and white. The installation of the fittings and deck gear has also began."

 

""The idea is for it to be part of the cockpit," explains Antoine Gautier, head of MACIF's in-house design team." We wanted to optimise the boat for solo sailing by combining all operations in one place. The objective is that Francis is not obliged to run ten meters between the winches and the helm. So we have installed five winches side by side in the center of the hull, behind the rear link arm between the two wheel steering positions. And to further facilitate the movement we have installed a cabin in the rear of the cockpit behind this. This allows for the cockpit and the 'living pod' to be on one level - like a caravan on top of the boat. "A watertight door separates the two spaces, the cabin will house the bunk, computers and electronics, but also the gallery." Gabart will store in here food and clothes for about ten days, and as a result there will be very little stowed below in the central hull."

 

"Meanwhile the foils have also been revealed with lateral foils built into the rudder. Gabart says: "This will certainly allow us to go faster, but mostly to navigate in a more stable and secure way. The MACIF trimaran will be very versatile and it should go very quickly when conditions permit.""

 

http://www.thedailysail.com/offshore/15/68058/0/macif-maxi-trimaran-comes-together

 

 

 

 

 

 

vueMACIF_3_HD_620.jpg

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Why no aero over the rear beam/traveller area?

What is that rear-facing pod...

Read the post before yours, :)

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Why no aero over the rear beam/traveller area?

What is that rear-facing pod...

Read the post before yours, :)

 

 

People want to be spoon feed their information. Why should they actually need to read an article?

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I agree that the lack of aero profile on the beams of the last VPLP multi is something that keeps bugging me, even more since the Oracle tri for AC33. Profiled fairings were only put on the front beams of Banque Populaire V after the cup... At the speeds these boats are going a little care about the aero drag seems evident. Maybe it's not?

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Why no aero over the rear beam/traveller area?

What is that rear-facing pod...

Read the post before yours, :)

 

 

People want to be spoon feed their information. Why should they actually need to read an article?

 

 

Yeah, Cause I already spend enough hours of the day reading everything sailing, and my skim reading didn't pick up on the pod definition

 

Also you completely glossed over the main part of my question

 

Where the fuck is the aero?!

 

Agreed with Cyrille, wouldn't is be extremely beneficial to fair aero off the rear beam and traveller beam to get the air flowing more smoothly over the beams and more level too, thus stabilising flight more passively...

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No aero fairing on Macif rear beam, none either on Banque Populaire or Groupama.

 

May be something related to sailing the roaring 40s confused seas v/s sailing SF bay within a max wind limit ;)

Loose a little, gain a lot

 

Going backwards one may recall Geronimo rear beam being obviously the most stressed and suffering part of the boat in one of her southern ocean ventures.

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One would assume that the most critical bit of aero was the front beam - as one would want to avoid disturbed air running up the sails. After that, aero treatment is likely less value. Once the frontal area is fixed there is only so much you can do to get the drag down. You can help, but only within limits, and it may add enough mass that it just isn't worth it compared to the optimal shape for strength. Rear pod does look odd however.

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The rear of the pod is aero shaped. It's possible that the rest of the front of the hull/front or rear cross beam provides wind shadow to the top of the pod. The back of the pod is tapered to reduce turbulent drag.

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Whats all the fuss? Blown up orma 60 with a pup tent, vertical travel beam much draggier than the D beams, its overpowered in anything over 5 kn.

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Yeah the pod seems like a rather stupid idea on the face of it.. So there must be some really good points for having it?

Gets some weight further back in the bus I guess, and a bit quicker access to the cockpit?

Other than that, what's so great about it?

It sure looks like a airbrake...

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Yeah the pod seems like a rather stupid idea on the face of it.. So there must be some really good points for having it?

Gets some weight further back in the bus I guess, and a bit quicker access to the cockpit?

Other than that, what's so great about it?

It sure looks like a airbrake...

It's basically a fully covered cockpit. Wonder if it works like an ejectable safety pod like on those big offshore power boats? She'll be going fast enough!

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The MACIF Ultime trimaran is being launched on August 18th.

 

"August 18, the #trimaranMACIF will leave the shipyard CDK Keroman (Lorient) to discover its natural element."

 

"After more than 18 months of meticulous preparation, it is with emotion that François Gabart and his team will proceed with the launching of this 100-foot trimaran built for the greatest ocean challenges."

 

http://www.macifcourseaularge.com/actualites/mise-%C3%A0-leau-du-trimaranmacif-tenez-vous-pr%C3%AAts

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Posted this in another thread : Interview with the Golden boy about Macif 100 launched with only one foil :

 

http://www.voilesetvoiliers.com/les-videos/interview-francois-gabart-macif-lancement/

 

Translation :

 

« Lots of emotion, pleasure to see how pretty the boat is, the whole team is proud of the good job we did, [etc]. But it is not finished, it is only the beginning, there is a lot left to do.

 

We are in mid-August, the Jacques Vabre is at the end of October, so we are on a tight schedule. We have less than two months to work out and improve the boat, we will make it simple as possible so that we can take the start of the race in safe conditions for the boat, Pascal and I. We know that developing a boat like this one takes months, years of work. We will probably be able to use the boat in optimum conditions in two or three years.

 

We are learning and discovering, we are repositioning ourselves : This is a five year project and it’s no use to build foils that are not the best that of what can be done. It is bothersome not to have the two foils at the launching, I will not hide it, but it is not to worry about, because of the size of this project.

We can navigate in an asymmetrical way, with just one foil on one side of the boat and none on the other. We are lucky, there is more port tack on the Jacques Vabre, and we have anticipated that. We will have no port foil so the starboard tacks will be a bit complicated, particularly through the Bay of Biscay where you are regularly on starboard, but that only takes 24, 36 - 48 hours maximum, it will be a short bad time to go. But if we manage to make one hull fly safely and easily, we will have reached our objective. »

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Really shows how far aft the rig is. Way, way aft.

 

Apparently they don't want to be spending the whole time going around the world with the boat wanting to pitchpole. Going solo, I know I would appreciate that (I'm guessing Thomas Coville would appreciate it, too).

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Why is the clew of that jib/code so high?

So it can sheet to the traveler track. Allows athwartships adjustment. Rig is too far aft to sheet on rear crossbeam

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Oh my God that's cool, although until they get the second foil it will be the Derek Zoolander of offshore foilers.

 

To that end, having watched the Schickler/Falcone lecture from Foiling Week (see the G4 thread in Multihulls) I'm guessing the foils are still a work in progress in terms of getting the right amount of flex in the foil to get the right compromise between stability and low speed lift. I wouldn't be surprised if they go through a few iterations as they do a few big races. Anyway, that boat is just awesome.

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Is it just me, or does that thing just look incredibly light? Looks like the thing barely has any boat underwater when sitting or going slowly.

 

Have to think that would be one boat that could work with Joyon's concept of shorthanded to win the Jules Verne.

 

REALLY neat.

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foils super secret to keep them from prying eyes. This is big money racing, every bit as zealously guarded as AC secrets.

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Between this, the new IMOCAs, and the Fastnet, it has been very easy to ignore the Americas Cup / ACWS, particularly how hard they have made it to even watch that crap.

 

Can't wait for the other new G-Class boats to start taking shape (Gitana, Banque Populaire?, Lending Tree?).

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Between this, the new IMOCAs, and the Fastnet, it has been very easy to ignore the Americas Cup / ACWS, particularly how hard they have made it to even watch that crap.

 

Can't wait for the other new G-Class boats to start taking shape (Gitana, Banque Populaire?, Lending Tree?).

Amen.

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foils super secret to keep them from prying eyes. This is big money racing, every bit as zealously guarded as AC secrets.

Perhaps you're right. Maybe they've got a couple done but not want to show them yet, waiting for the last moment to try them. Guess it's not easy to build them, speculating the rest won't have time to copy. I don't believe with all the resources they have they ran out of time

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Between this, the new IMOCAs, and the Fastnet, it has been very easy to ignore the Americas Cup / ACWS, particularly how hard they have made it to even watch that crap.

 

Can't wait for the other new G-Class boats to start taking shape (Gitana, Banque Populaire?, Lending Tree?).

Amen.

 

Americas Cup? What's that?

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foils super secret to keep them from prying eyes. This is big money racing, every bit as zealously guarded as AC secrets.

Perhaps you're right. Maybe they've got a couple done but not want to show them yet, waiting for the last moment to try them. Guess it's not easy to build them, speculating the rest won't have time to copy. I don't believe with all the resources they have they ran out of time

 

 

French foil builders are scarce and small.

I do not know who has actually been building which and who is supposed to build Macif's (and no way to know this week) but, as for the one builder which I know best, he certainly is no stranger to being awfully late, so others might be the same.

And... that's a lot of different foils to be built in a short span, adding that each boat seems to use different foils which means different expensive moulds.

 

On a second thought, Macif's foils must be huge implying a not too common autoclave.

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While she came together in France at CDK Keroman's yard in Lorient, does anyone know who how much if any was built elsewhere? I assume the foils could be coming from anywhere including outside France.

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While she came together in France at CDK Keroman's yard in Lorient, does anyone know who how much if any was built elsewhere? I assume the foils could be coming from anywhere including outside France.

 

Yes !

That's an option, but not too many suspects either

 

Edit: actually decided to loose some working time and found !

 

http://www.c3technologies.fr/launching-of-macif-trimaran/

 

Not the usually late one I was thinking of, but not a big firm either and a lot of orders

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Blog of Voile Magasine November 2014

 

http://www.voilemagazine.com/2014/11/trimaran-macif-francois-gabart-va-naviguer-couvert/

 

Not a recent article but it said about the foils :

 

[…] About the shape of the foils, nothing is definitively adopted, but the team tried out different foil profiles on their Diam 24, and recognizees orientating themselves towards a « tick ». The photo is eloquent » [...]

 

Photo with the text :

 

M100_1533.jpg

 

So, at this date, « tick » foils still relevant ?

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What would be really cool is to see video of the Diam 24 sailing with it's uptip foils! (not "L","L/V", "J","Tick",etc.)

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foils super secret to keep them from prying eyes. This is big money racing, every bit as zealously guarded as AC secrets.

Perhaps you're right. Maybe they've got a couple done but not want to show them yet, waiting for the last moment to try them. Guess it's not easy to build them, speculating the rest won't have time to copy. I don't believe with all the resources they have they ran out of time

 

 

Word has already been circulating that Macif built too early, and that the new Banque Pop Ultime is quite a bit badder.

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foils super secret to keep them from prying eyes. This is big money racing, every bit as zealously guarded as AC secrets.

Perhaps you're right. Maybe they've got a couple done but not want to show them yet, waiting for the last moment to try them. Guess it's not easy to build them, speculating the rest won't have time to copy. I don't believe with all the resources they have they ran out of time

 

 

Word has already been circulating that Macif built too early, and that the new Banque Pop Ultime is quite a bit badder.

 

 

Only badder if BP has left enough time for testing. Extreme innovation requires extreme testing to sort out the details. I'd rather sail a 95% fast boat at 90% potential than a 100% fast boat at 80% potential. In this game I would think the ability to sail the boat near potential is at least as important as the design (given these are both cutting edge new designs). Different cards to play...

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foils super secret to keep them from prying eyes. This is big money racing, every bit as zealously guarded as AC secrets.

Perhaps you're right. Maybe they've got a couple done but not want to show them yet, waiting for the last moment to try them. Guess it's not easy to build them, speculating the rest won't have time to copy. I don't believe with all the resources they have they ran out of time

 

 

Word has already been circulating that Macif built too early, and that the new Banque Pop Ultime is quite a bit badder.

 

 

Only badder if BP has left enough time for testing. Extreme innovation requires extreme testing to sort out the details. I'd rather sail a 95% fast boat at 90% potential than a 100% fast boat at 80% potential. In this game I would think the ability to sail the boat near potential is at least as important as the design (given these are both cutting edge new designs). Different cards to play...

 

Pretty sure this will be how IDEC/Joyon see this playing out as well. Keep it simple. I would expect they will put the boat on a big diet after the coming winter attempt at the Jules Verne but then go for fast and simple.

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foils super secret to keep them from prying eyes. This is big money racing, every bit as zealously guarded as AC secrets.

Perhaps you're right. Maybe they've got a couple done but not want to show them yet, waiting for the last moment to try them. Guess it's not easy to build them, speculating the rest won't have time to copy. I don't believe with all the resources they have they ran out of time

 

 

Word has already been circulating that Macif built too early, and that the new Banque Pop Ultime is quite a bit badder.

 

 

Only badder if BP has left enough time for testing. Extreme innovation requires extreme testing to sort out the details. I'd rather sail a 95% fast boat at 90% potential than a 100% fast boat at 80% potential. In this game I would think the ability to sail the boat near potential is at least as important as the design (given these are both cutting edge new designs). Different cards to play...

 

 

As I understand it this anticipated RTW race is not planned before kind of 4 years from now.

 

So plenty of time to test then try and go after he RTW record after Gabart and before the race

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Yep. These things should have pretty long lives, and decisions made early have long running ramifications.

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foils super secret to keep them from prying eyes. This is big money racing, every bit as zealously guarded as AC secrets.

 

How much to build one of these? Less than Comanche?

 

 

It's difficult to know exacty, as this is not how they compute.

 

They work on a yearly budget over a period of time , this budget includes build amortization, improvements & refits and running costs and a conservative resale value.

Gabart works on a 25 millions 5 years budget (5000 k a year that is)

 

That is roughly Team France aka Groupama budget in the Am cup

 

And... do no forget the heights to which the full time "crew" costs can go !

 

Crazy IMHO

 

post-6361-0-26232900-1440842821_thumb.png

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foils super secret to keep them from prying eyes. This is big money racing, every bit as zealously guarded as AC secrets.

 

How much to build one of these? Less than Comanche?

 

 

It's difficult to know exacty, as this is not how they compute.

 

They work on a yearly budget over a period of time , this budget includes build amortization, improvements & refits and running costs and a conservative resale value.

Gabart works on a 25 millions 5 years budget (5000 k a year that is)

 

That is roughly Team France aka Groupama budget in the Am cup

 

And... do no forget the heights to which the full time "crew" costs can go !

 

Crazy IMHO

 

 

how can they manage, what do they get in return? There's not only one team, there are several, suppose all don't spend that much, but the overall figure seems a lot, and they are almost all french

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It's probably like F1 where you have three or four teams with really big budgets; MACIF, Banque Populaire, Gintana, Safran and so forth and then it drops off but you still have serious programs at lower price points. The thing that makes me jealous of France is that this actually seems to make commercial sense for consumer oriented French companies because the public actually cares enough that the numbers work. I've said this before but in Canada, equivalent companies sponsor curling. There's no foiling in curling.

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