Bull City

H-Boat Renovation Project

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Good deal - don't forget to properly drill & seal all your deck penetrations with epoxy.

 

I'd keep the soft goods off the boat until the hardware is all bedded & installed - it can be messy work and it only takes one wayward splooge of epoxy or sealant to ruin a cushion.

Fortunately, professionals will be installing all deck hardware.

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Good deal - don't forget to properly drill & seal all your deck penetrations with epoxy.

 

I'd keep the soft goods off the boat until the hardware is all bedded & installed - it can be messy work and it only takes one wayward splooge of epoxy or sealant to ruin a cushion.

Fortunately, professionals will be installing all deck hardware.

 

 

Well, that's an ironclad guarantee of quality. I would still at least put dropcloths down. I have had professionals work on my boat before.

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All sailboat hardware on new boats is installed by "professionals". Somehow we still end up with saturated & delaminated decks.

 

I'd be very specific, in writing, about how I wanted the gear mounted.

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All sailboat hardware on new boats is installed by "professionals". Somehow we still end up with saturated & delaminated decks.

 

I'd be very specific, in writing, about how I wanted the gear mounted.

What Sloop said...

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On the deck hardware... the man who is doing it is some one I have known for 30 years. He knows his business and is very meticulous. I have a lot of confidence in him. We're going to figure out the layout this week, and we'll talk about methods and products (he's a polysulfide guy as I recall). The cushions are still being made so they won't be in the way.

 

The last time I saw the boat, they were 1/2 way through spraying the topsides. That was over a month ago. I'm really anxious to see her in person. Sloop, I haven't seen the inside teak since January. I'll probably spend an hour gazing at it and the cove stripe.

 

Now to start packing the car.

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Don't use polysulphide - it's the olden days equivalent of 5200 only not as good. It was (is?) used for bridge expansion joints if that tells you anything.

 

Use butyl tape or if gunning is required, low adhesion polyurethane like 4200 or Sika 291.

 

I'd use GE Silicone II before I used polysulphide to seal deck hardware.

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Not to argue the point, but that polysulfide stuff has lasted a pretty long damn time on a lot of boats. Nevertheless, I plan to talk about bedding stuff with my boatyard guy.

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That's the problem - it lasts forever and is almost impossible to remove, ever.

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I got back to work on the boat yesterday. I haven't seen her in person since they day they began spraying the topsides, about 6 weeks ago. The deck and non-skid have been painted. I am really happy with the result, ecstatic may be more accurate. I was concerned that the non-skid might be too dark, but I don't think it is; it's just right. (I did give the cove stripe a kiss.)

I had stripped the old varnish a few months ago, so today I sanded and applied the first coat of Cetol Natural Teak. Tomorrow more vacuuming down below, cleaning lockers, and then an afternoon coat of Cetol. Here are some pics:

post-54228-0-91987200-1427236255_thumb.jpg

post-54228-0-09947600-1427236329_thumb.jpg

post-54228-0-44830300-1427236355_thumb.jpg

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Thank you all. The boat yard guy recommended the colors.

 

You should have seen the tiny little dips of the brush into the Cetol can. I only had two tiny drips to wipe up. I also removed the tape after coat #1. I'll re-tape for each coat. It's great to be so relaxed about a brand new paint job.

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Just the plexi for now. The original drop board was nicely made: one piece, painted white and had a ventilation window. I stripped it, but it doesn't look so good. I may use it for a screen, perhaps in two horizontal pieces to make it easier to stow.

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Congratulations, Bull. That looks stunning.

 

This should be a jewel of a boat to sail, and a joy to look at. It's hard to think how anything else could have suited your intended usage so well.

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Very nice looking boat Bull, congratulations!

 

BTW, did I see you mention earlier that you still have those fixed handle winches lying around?

Yes, I do.

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Very nice looking boat Bull, congratulations!

 

BTW, did I see you mention earlier that you still have those fixed handle winches lying around?

Yes, I do.

 

 

PM sent!

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Looking good Bull. I enjoy seeing someone take real care with the appearance of their boat. Nobody is going to look better than you.

Thanks, Bob. After she is in the water, I will have to make some changes so I don't detract from her appearance.

 

I am going to need a better sailing wardrobe for one thing. Plus, I'm going to have to find a better barber than the 95 year old Italian guy I go to, and I'm going to have to shave and comb my hair before I go sailing. I'll probably need to buy better beer, maybe French wine instead, and serve better food for lunch.

 

Jeez!

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Really nice work. Like seeing a good boat brought back to life. Not a bad work space either.

Working inside is really nice. Good light, no rain or wind or bugs, or shit dropping onto your wet varnish. You don't have to button up at the end of the day. The shop area has some 75 year old garage quality, which I like.

 

I'd like to send some photos to the PO, but I'm not sure if they would be taken the right way.

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Really nice work. Like seeing a good boat brought back to life. Not a bad work space either.

The shop area has some 75 year old garage quality, which I like.

 

Me too. Not always the best for finishing work but it makes a great environment to work in.

 

Similar psychological effect to reading in front of a fire.

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Bull, I envy you big time right now. We're still only at the beginning of spring so there are still a couple of feet of snow on the ground and I think I'll only get to the boat in a few weeks. In the meantime I'm painting my wife's office. Good for brownie points I guess but yeeeeech!!

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Sailboats are not fungible so you have no need to know.

 

Sailboats are eminently fungible for Bob, in design form they are exchangeable for guitars, or for something called "dollars".

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Fungibility is the property of a good or a commodity whose individual units are capable of mutual substitution. That is, it is the property of essences or goods which are "capable of being substituted in place of one another."[1] For example, since one ounce of gold is equivalent to any other ounce of gold, gold is fungible. Other fungible commodities include sweet crude oil, company shares, bonds, precious metals, and currencies. Fungibility refers only to the equivalence of each unit of a commodity with other units of the same commodity. Fungibility does not relate to the exchange of one commodity for another different commodity.

 

So all of Bob's boats are equivalent?

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I'm always happy to supply a new vocabulary word. You seem to have mastered it.

 

New words: byzantine, opaque, which apply to outboard motor brackets. See thread in Gear Anarchy.

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I'm always happy to supply a new vocabulary word. You seem to have mastered it.

 

New words: byzantine, opaque, which apply to outboard motor brackets. See thread in Gear Anarchy.

 

 

"Byzantine" is very good. I'm reading a book on the history of the Orthodox Church and Byzantine is in there. Usually I prefer to be more opaque.

Byzantine in lower case can be used if not referring to Byzantium.

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We decided to split the port lights in order to loose the "Flash Gordon" look we originally had. (see post 263 for before photo) It was easy to do and looks much better.

 

post-54228-0-55298600-1429456689_thumb.jpg

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Splitting the ports looks great Bull, even if it does make me feel old. ;)

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A couple of observations with this port light thing.

 

The SS screws that fasten the light to the cabin looked new, in spite of the fact that they were over 30 years old. Great stuff.

 

The width of the plexi material, between port and starboard sides, varied by 1/2". So much for Finnish craftsmanship.

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That is one sweet looking boat. . Very nice job!

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I like the split windows- are they on the outside surface of the cabin or is there any recess for them. I ask because on my tri they are just mounted on the outside and some people have just mounted them with caulk and skipped the screws due to the differences in expansion/contraction. Yours were done professionally, so I'm curious about their choice to use screws.

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The windows are mounted on the outside surface - there is no recess. They are the originals and they were caulked and screwed. We cut the windows, cleaned everything and used a black caulk and replaced the screws. We added a few screws for the new edges. The sides of the house are curved and this may explain why the builder used screws.

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I hope the holes are bigger than the screws. Check often for hairline cracks around the screws. Enlarge holes if needed.

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Will do. Thanks.

I have replaced windows and did not oversize the holes. Cracks and leaks from when window expands faster or slower than hull. Nice touch splitting the lights aesthetic ly.

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Interestingly, replacing the old, original, very slightly crazed windows on our boat was one of the cheaper exercises we have undertaken in our refit.

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We spent three days last week fixing a mistake and installing deck hardware.

 

The Mistake involved the cabin-top winches. We assumed that the old ones were in the right spot for handling the halyards, and installed the new winches in the same place. After actually testing with the mast base in place, we discovered the location was not good. So, we took them out, plugged the holes with epoxy, topped with bungs and varnish, and installed the winches in the right place. Good lesson.

 

This week, I hope to finish up the hardware installation. Then the painter is going to touch up the topsides' Awlgrip. We have some rigging things to sort out and the bottom to prep and paint. If all goes well, she may be in the water on May 15th!

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Spreader tips - something we never think about, right? Wrong. While perusing the standing rigging, I came across two cast aluminum fossils, still wired to each upper shroud. They may have once resembled spreader tips, but now, having been hidden by spreader boots in a saltwater environment for lo this past third of a century, they now resemble old musket balls. In fact, a portion of one musket ball is still lodged in the spreader.

I'm working on getting some new plastic ones. Sheesh!

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This is why car folks talk about a "frame off" restoration, where you finally figure you better take everything completely apart under the assumption that there are things that need attention everywhere and you can either commit all at once or keep dealing with them as they turn up. I'm not suggesting that you needed to commit more, I think what you are doing is great, but Alpha is right, there will always be more.

 

You deserve a sail.

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Alpha and Tucky, thanks for the encouragement. I was a little torqued about the spreader tips.

 

I'm getting some new SS spreader tips fabricated. They should be ready Friday. Whew!

 

I went sailing last week for the first time this year. It was with a friend on his Tartan 34, on a beautiful day. Great medicine.

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You are right. It's great medicine. My boat is being launched on May 9th. Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy. <claps hands like a child, jumps up and down>

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Outboard Motors - What do you all think?

I've got some concerns about using my Honda 2HP with this boat. It was plenty for my J22, but this boat weighs 3200 lbs. vs. 1800 lbs. for the J22. I'm thinking a 4 HP would be better, especially when the breeze is up.

 

The 4s have F-N-R gears which would help when maneuvering around the slip. The Honda 2 has no gears - Neutral is a centrifugal clutch, and Reverse is 180 degree twist. It was sometimes awkward on the J22. On the H-Boat, with its long afterdeck, it will be more so.

 

The 4's weigh around 58 lbs. vs. 30 lbs. for the Honda 2. Some of the 4s have a remote fuel tank connection in addition to the internal tank, and some have an optional alternator.

I'll be sailing on an inland lake in NC. Strong winds and chop are not usual, but are not rare either. I do recall a day when the J22 made meager progress into a stiff wind and chop with the Honda 2.

The 4HP long shaft makers seem to be Mercury, Tohatsu and Yamaha. Am I missing any?

I would be very interested and appreciative of the groups' experience, opinions, recommendations, caveats, etc.

Thanks.

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Be really nice if you could discover a Craigslist gem in a 2 stroke 3.5 hp long shaft. I can appreciate the desire to have reverse gear spinning the motor is a pain. An even bigger one when the motor is that far away. How long 'til it gets wet?

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Mercury makes a 3.5 hp longshaft. I have the short shaft version of it, weighs 38 lbs. Has neutral and forward.

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Mercury makes a 3.5 hp longshaft. I have the short shaft version of it, weighs 38 lbs. Has neutral and forward.

I thought that was a good option. Are you happy with it? Sorry about the nosebleed.

 

I hope we'll be wet by May 15th.

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Mercury makes a 3.5 hp longshaft. I have the short shaft version of it, weighs 38 lbs. Has neutral and forward.

I thought that was a good option. Are you happy with it? Sorry about the nosebleed.

 

I hope we'll be wet by May 15th.

 

 

Keep rubbing.

 

Regarding the motor...

 

Absolutely do not leave the dock without Sea Foam in your fuel. Obey all the laws of using real fuel, not that ethanol shit. Both orifices on the carburetor are smaller than any known particle.

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Mercury makes a 3.5 hp longshaft. I have the short shaft version of it, weighs 38 lbs. Has neutral and forward.

I thought that was a good option. Are you happy with it? Sorry about the nosebleed.

 

I hope we'll be wet by May 15th.

 

 

Keep rubbing.

 

Regarding the motor...

 

Absolutely do not leave the dock without Sea Foam in your fuel. Obey all the laws of using real fuel, not that ethanol shit. Both orifices on the carburetor are smaller than any known particle.

 

 

And apart from the tiny carburetor jets, I like the motor just fine. It's a little noisy, but most one-cylinder engines are.

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Consider electric if it'll give you the range you need. For an inland lake this is probably what I would do.

 

Also propane, which is less messy than gasoline, no problems with dirty/wet fuel, and cheaper when prices go up again.

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Your H-Boat looks sweet. It has quite a lot of the BB-10's lines and character. Different designer? Beautiful boats and good performance.

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Thanks, Bulletpoint. The H-Boat was designed in 1967 by Hans Groop, a Finn. I agree with the resemblance to the BB-10. I was kind of interested in them when I was looking. The cockpit and cabin arrangements were a little odd to me, and it was a more boat than I wanted. But they are still sleek looking beauties and I would love to sail on one.

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I am at the boat this week. BYO says we're going to finish it this week. Prepping and painting the bottom is the biggest item. Next is installing the OB Bracket. The rest are small rigging things like routing the jib furling line.

 

We should be in the water next week! Hubba Hubba!

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Outboard Motors - What do you all think?

 

I've got some concerns about using my Honda 2HP with this boat. It was plenty for my J22, but this boat weighs 3200 lbs. vs. 1800 lbs. for the J22. I'm thinking a 4 HP would be better, especially when the breeze is up.

 

The 4s have F-N-R gears which would help when maneuvering around the slip. The Honda 2 has no gears - Neutral is a centrifugal clutch, and Reverse is 180 degree twist. It was sometimes awkward on the J22. On the H-Boat, with its long afterdeck, it will be more so.

 

The 4's weigh around 58 lbs. vs. 30 lbs. for the Honda 2. Some of the 4s have a remote fuel tank connection in addition to the internal tank, and some have an optional alternator.

 

I'll be sailing on an inland lake in NC. Strong winds and chop are not usual, but are not rare either. I do recall a day when the J22 made meager progress into a stiff wind and chop with the Honda 2.

 

The 4HP long shaft makers seem to be Mercury, Tohatsu and Yamaha. Am I missing any?

 

I would be very interested and appreciative of the groups' experience, opinions, recommendations, caveats, etc.

 

Thanks.

 

Mercury's small engines are Tohatsu's, which are also Nissan's. And Tohatsu's larger engines are now Honda's. And Evinrude is Canadian, eh. It's all a jumble!

 

Anyway, the 4, 5, and 6 hp Tohatsu = Mercury = Nissan, except the labels and slight differences in fuel and timing components that make the horsepower difference. The 4 has a built in tank and has a fitting for an external tank. The 5 and 6 are actually a bit smaller and lighter but have no built-in tank. An alternator is optional on all models except one. They make the 6 hp with XL (25 inch) shaft and that one comes with the alternator standard. The 4 and 5 are only available with 15" and 20" shafts.

 

I have a 2006 5 hp Tohatsu. It has been fine.

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Tom, thanks for the run-down on the engines. I actually put together a spreadsheet so I could keep it all straight. If I get a new motor, I'll probably go with a 3.5 or 4 HP. The 3.5s weigh around 42 lbs. vs. around 60 for the 4, but with the 4 you get Reverse and a remote tank fitting.

 

With the Honda 2, I've got about 30 lbs. hanging off the transom. I wonder what 60 would do to the trim of the boat?

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Thanks, Bob. Here they are:

 

LOA: 27.25'

LWL: 20.70'

Beam: 7.20'

Disp: 3,200 lbs.

Draft: 4.25'

Ballast: 1,594 lbs.

 

Let me know if you need anything else.

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That will do it Bull. Give me a few minutes.

 

Ok, I had to estimate a couple of things but adding a 40 lb. outboard in a bracket off your transom will sink your stern .5214286" or half an inch.

Remember our bow will come up .5"

 

Your moment to trim one inch is 700 ft. pounds, approx. That means 700 ft lbs. will sink one end a half an inch and the other end a half an inch for a total trim change of 1".

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That will do it Bull. Give me a few minutes.

 

Ok, I had to estimate a couple of things but adding a 40 lb. outboard in a bracket off your transom will sink your stern .5214286" or half an inch.

Remember our bow will come up .5"

 

Your moment to trim one inch is 700 ft. pounds, approx. That means 700 ft lbs. will sink one end a half an inch and the other end a half an inch for a total trim change of 1".

Thanks, Bob, that is very good to know. I'll have to see how it looks with the Honda 2.

 

About 40 years ago, I hung a Johnson 6 off the transom of my Alberg Typhoon, and the boot stripe was completely submerged.

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You "estimate a couple of things" to the 7th decimal place? :blink:

 

Where does "guessing" stop?

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Bull, on my H-Boat I kept the Honda 2 hp below, as I remember it stowed nicely with the lower unit and prop under the cockpit and just the head sticking out, which also kept it reasonably centered fore and aft. It was only taken out when necessary, not that often as I could usually sail in and out of my slip.

 

The thing is, at 30 pounds it was not hard to move the 2 hp up and down when needed. I wouldn't want to try it with anything much bigger/heavier- which means you'd be stuck sailing around with the goofy thing hanging way off the back on the bracket, messing up those beautiful lines.

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We can get 2 versions of 2 stroke 2 hp engines here. Big block and small block. Yammies and Susie's are small while the merc and tohatsus are big ones. The difference between a 2.5 merc and a 3.5 merc is either a throttle stop or a washer in the intake depending on vintage.

 

Point is one of these 3.5s will weigh the same as a 2 hp but put out considerably more power.

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Bull, I run a Nissan 4-5-6 (6) on my 32 ft 4000lb. With a power prop it is adequate on the great lakes. The motor mount has "pins" that slide in opposed channels. The channels run from the bottom of the transom , over the lip of the cockpit (open transom) and 2 feet into the cockpit. We shut off the motor on the lake and slide it up and into the cockpit on its track. That moves the weight 2 - 2 1/2 feet forward anyway..

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No magic to my "guess". I don't have to guess much when I have Skene's sitting next to me all day long. I only had to estimate a couple of dimensions. OK three dimensions but I think I'm really close. This is my comfort zone.

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