Bull City

H-Boat Renovation Project

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Nope, the tolerance on a big C&C CNC router wouldn't be that good. It could be but the cost would be insane. Plus when you build it everything you add has tolerances, it all stacks up. Obviously a ton more accurate than lofting it by hand though...

 

Classic.

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There is a major photography deficit in this thread Bull.

Sloop, you're right, and I know how this crowd likes pictures. Not a lot has changed since late March, except that some hardware has sprouted from the deck. Nice but not a lot to see. "Oh, there's a winch. Ah, there's a nice looking cleat." It's been little stuff like the spreader tips, positioning and installing fairleads, cleats, etc. Most of the rigging stuff is now done. I'm going to wait on some of it until we have sailed it some, like where to put the twing cleats.

 

This week we sanded the bottom and keel. It was like the Gulag. But it's all done. The keel has been primed with epoxy and has had one application of fairing compound. Tomorrow, we'll sand, fair again, and paint over the weekend.

 

I've been cleaning down below. The cushion Nazi said that she will absolutely not bring the cushions until all of the work is finished and the cabin is clean. What can I say? She's bigger than me and mean, but she makes great stuff.

 

Today, Sue, the vinyl lettering lady, put the registration numbers on the bows, and the name on the transom. I will take a picture of it tomorrow and post it.

 

Tomorrow morning, I'm meeting the surveyor. I decided to get one for insurance purposes. I didn't pay much for the boat, but I have put a lot of cash and work into it. I feel that I have added more to its value than just the hardware and cushions, but talking to an underwriter about it is like talking to a cast iron keel - no, it's worse.

 

Part of the reason the boat sold for what it did is that it was dirty, the teak needed work, the head and hull liners were nasty and had to removed, the keel joint needed some fixing, there were some needed glass repairs, etc. I don't think the boat is worth everything I've put into it, but surely it is more than the purchase price plus cushions and hardware. I hope this surveyor will see that.

 

End of rant.

 

Soooo, I think we're on track for a launch late next week. I'll let you all know. Open bar.

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Bull, no boat is worth what we put into it to OTHERS, it only matters that it is worth it to US.......

 

 

 

.......................................I don't think the boat is worth everything I've put into it,...............................

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Bull, we need pics of your custom spreader tips.

 

Keerist, on re-reading that I realize I need to get a life. :rolleyes:

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You got the boat you want for much less than buying it new. As long as you're not flipping it, it doesn't matter how much you have in it except to you.

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Nope, the tolerance on a big C&C CNC router wouldn't be that good. It could be but the cost would be insane. Plus when you build it everything you add has tolerances, it all stacks up. Obviously a ton more accurate than lofting it by hand though...

 

Classic.

 

D'Oh!!! I'm used to typing the other on this computer... although a C&C router might not be a bad thing either.

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That will do it Bull. Give me a few minutes.

 

Ok, I had to estimate a couple of things but adding a 40 lb. outboard in a bracket off your transom will sink your stern .5214286" or half an inch.

Remember our bow will come up .5"

 

Your moment to trim one inch is 700 ft. pounds, approx. That means 700 ft lbs. will sink one end a half an inch and the other end a half an inch for a total trim change of 1".

 

What if he adds 20 lbs or so of chain very near the bow?

 

Bull, I think I'd keep the Honda if I were you. Hope I'm not too late with that idea.

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Having owned an H-Boat a long time ago, I enjoyed this thread, which I read pretty carefully from the beginning all the way up to here.

I saw that Craigslist ad last December, too. I went and looked at the boat. Almost bought it. Maybe I should have. Just about the only bummer with an H-Boat is deploying the outboard, way the 'eff off of that stern. Aside from that, I loved the boat.

Have fun.

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You got the boat you want for much less than buying it new. As long as you're not flipping it, it doesn't matter how much you have in it except to you.

 

 

^ wisdom & truth ^

 

Money is meaningless. It is just a useful tool that enables us to acquire nice boats.

 

FB- Doug

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Having owned an H-Boat a long time ago, I enjoyed this thread, which I read pretty carefully from the beginning all the way up to here.

 

I saw that Craigslist ad last December, too. I went and looked at the boat. Almost bought it. Maybe I should have. Just about the only bummer with an H-Boat is deploying the outboard, way the 'eff off of that stern. Aside from that, I loved the boat.

 

Have fun.

Yes. IMO that H-boat is begging for a single cylinder diesel IB. But that's some hefty $, and maybe Bull doesn't want to share the interior space with an engine. But I would do it. My Rozinante came with the worlds ugliest OB bracket despoiling the stern. I found a 1GM10 on eBay for $300, working on rebuilding and installing it. Big ass job.

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Bull, no boat is worth what we put into it to OTHERS, it only matters that it is worth it to US.......

 

 

 

.......................................I don't think the boat is worth everything I've put into it,...............................

 

 

 

 

 

 

Kim, I agree. I just want to be sure I have the right amount of insurance in the event of a loss. If that were to happen, there's another H-Boat lurking in our area and I coud do this again.

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I remember many moons ago seeing a dragon with a removable outboard bracket on the side. Obviously he had to dock on the opposite side but th helm had acces to the throttle and once out the engine and its bracket were stored inside.

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That will do it Bull. Give me a few minutes.

 

Ok, I had to estimate a couple of things but adding a 40 lb. outboard in a bracket off your transom will sink your stern .5214286" or half an inch.

Remember our bow will come up .5"

 

Your moment to trim one inch is 700 ft. pounds, approx. That means 700 ft lbs. will sink one end a half an inch and the other end a half an inch for a total trim change of 1".

 

What if he adds 20 lbs or so of chain very near the bow?

 

Bull, I think I'd keep the Honda if I were you. Hope I'm not too late with that idea.

 

I'm planning to keep the Honda 2 for a while and see how we all do together.

 

RKock, the IB diesel would be cool. I saw a listing for an H-Boat in Europe that has one. For me, it would complicate the boat, and might make the cabin stinky.

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... ...

 

RKock, the IB diesel would be cool. I saw a listing for an H-Boat in Europe that has one. For me, it would complicate the boat, and might make the cabin stinky.

 

 

It might. But it might not.

 

Have owned/sailed several diesel boats including our current trawler with it's old-school 135hp Lehman, no trace of "diesel aroma." The usual culprit is fuel in the bilge. Gets sloshed into corners & crevices, breaks down, and supports bacteria growth. Lube oil is much lower to break down but it does not smell like cookies & unicorns either.

 

Keeping an engine clean makes it easier to do maintenance, and the combination of clean + good maintenance = reliable + no stinky

 

FB- Doug

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Bull, we need pics of your custom spreader tips.

 

Keerist, on re-reading that I realize I need to get a life. :rolleyes:

Yes, John, you do, but I am with you all the way. The spreader tips are photo-worthy and I will post some. If SWMBO were to see them, she would demand that they be made into earrings.

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That will do it Bull. Give me a few minutes.

 

Ok, I had to estimate a couple of things but adding a 40 lb. outboard in a bracket off your transom will sink your stern .5214286" or half an inch.

Remember our bow will come up .5"

 

Your moment to trim one inch is 700 ft. pounds, approx. That means 700 ft lbs. will sink one end a half an inch and the other end a half an inch for a total trim change of 1".

 

What if he adds 20 lbs or so of chain very near the bow?

 

Bull, I think I'd keep the Honda if I were you. Hope I'm not too late with that idea.

 

I'm planning to keep the Honda 2 for a while and see how we all do together.

 

RKock, the IB diesel would be cool. I saw a listing for an H-Boat in Europe that has one. For me, it would complicate the boat, and might make the cabin stinky.

 

 

Might? You mean there's a way to bleed diesels and change oil that doesn't result in stink in the cabin??? How did I go this long without learning it?? Please share!

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Here are some pics. The boat is in the shop so it was hard to get far enough away for an overall look.

 

Some new hardware on foredeck: stand-up block for the jib furling line just aft of the mushroom, then a fairlead for pole downhaul

post-54228-0-57319900-1431185412_thumb.jpg

 

Fairleads for jib furling line along side of deckhouse. Note convenient cubby for helmsman at aft end of cockpit. Hans Groop thought of everything.

post-54228-0-86509600-1431185517_thumb.jpg

 

New jib sheet and halyard winches (with removable handles!). Keel is in process of priming-fairing-priming-fairing-priming having been meticulously scraped and sanded by owner.

post-54228-0-40590500-1431185758_thumb.jpg

 

The modified traveler has been installed. It originally spanned the entire width of the cockpit, and was raised above the cockpit cushions. Being neither an accomplished hurdler or a slave to sail shape, I shortened it to fit between the cockpit benches. I also replaced the wire tail of the backstay adjuster with Dyneema. Note the shiny deck cleats, meticulously polished by the owner. Winch handle holder located just below companionway.

post-54228-0-63529500-1431186486_thumb.jpg

 

Finally, her name.

post-54228-0-10158200-1431187253_thumb.jpg

 

The OB bracket has become a challenge. It is Panther brand bracket, rated for up to 10 HP, or 60 or 80 lbs., I forget which, but the spring is really inadequate. I mounted all 29 lbs. of my Honda 2 on it, and the spring has almost no effect. I have to lower it and lift it what feels like all 29 lbs. I'm thinking a stronger spring may be the answer. You can buy SS springs at McMaster-Carr, but I don't know what is needed. I'm going to post something on Gear Anarchy, and hope to get some advice.

 

The BYO is going to finish the bottom paint over the weekend, and get everything loaded. I've got sails and cushions to pick up. I'll put together some before & afters of the cabin next week.

 

Launching should be Friday! Yippee!

 

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Congratulations, Mr. City. She looks beautiful!

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The OB bracket has become a challenge. It is Panther brand bracket, rated for up to 10 HP, or 60 or 80 lbs., I forget which,

 

Does it come with a time machine? Dial it back to about 1992 or before and you'll find 9.9 hp engines that weigh only 80 lbs. Anything newer will weigh more.

 

1986 is the best year for the OMC ones. ;)

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Looks like a brand new boat Bull - very nice.

 

Still waiting for pics of the spreader tips though. :wacko:

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Now that's a beautiful boat. Well done.

 

Now go and enjoy it.

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Outboard Motors - What do you all think?

I've got some concerns about using my Honda 2HP with this boat. It was plenty for my J22, but this boat weighs 3200 lbs. vs. 1800 lbs. for the J22. I'm thinking a 4 HP would be better, especially when the breeze is up.

 

The 4s have F-N-R gears which would help when maneuvering around the slip. The Honda 2 has no gears - Neutral is a centrifugal clutch, and Reverse is 180 degree twist. It was sometimes awkward on the J22. On the H-Boat, with its long afterdeck, it will be more so.

 

The 4's weigh around 58 lbs. vs. 30 lbs. for the Honda 2. Some of the 4s have a remote fuel tank connection in addition to the internal tank, and some have an optional alternator.

I'll be sailing on an inland lake in NC. Strong winds and chop are not usual, but are not rare either. I do recall a day when the J22 made meager progress into a stiff wind and chop with the Honda 2.

The 4HP long shaft makers seem to be Mercury, Tohatsu and Yamaha. Am I missing any?

I would be very interested and appreciative of the groups' experience, opinions, recommendations, caveats, etc.

Thanks.

 

Mercury's small engines are Tohatsu's, which are also Nissan's. And Tohatsu's larger engines are now Honda's. And Evinrude is Canadian, eh. It's all a jumble!

 

Anyway, the 4, 5, and 6 hp Tohatsu = Mercury = Nissan, except the labels and slight differences in fuel and timing components that make the horsepower difference. The 4 has a built in tank and has a fitting for an external tank. The 5 and 6 are actually a bit smaller and lighter but have no built-in tank. An alternator is optional on all models except one. They make the 6 hp with XL (25 inch) shaft and that one comes with the alternator standard. The 4 and 5 are only available with 15" and 20" shafts.

 

I have a 2006 5 hp Tohatsu. It has been fine.

I had the 4hp with the Mercury label on my Capri 22. Good engine. The problem in s chop isn't HP, but keeping the prop in the water. The fix is to sail if going upwind.

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Looks like a brand new boat Bull - very nice.

 

Still waiting for pics of the spreader tips though. :wacko:

 

NO

 

Mrs Steam will have spreader envy if you post pics... umm wait a minute

 

FB- Doug

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I will take some pics of the spreader tips. I just need a piece of dark velvet for background, and good lighting.

 

BTW, I need help with the OB bracket spring. Please check the post on Gear Anarchy.

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A design question:

 

On most boats, the forestay meets the deck at the stem, however, on other, mostly older designs, like the H-Boat, the forestay meets the deck some distance back from the stem. I always thought the set-back looked nice, and in these days of asymmetric spinnakers, the set-back offers better separation. But I don't think that was the consideration when these boats were designed. So what was it?

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Bull:

If you have a long and light, Scandinavian type, hull the rig need not be huge for a good SA/D. You have a desired mast loation for balance. You have an idea headstay angle and fore triangle area for power and balance and theheadstay just happens to hit well aft of the stem. This is a very common feature of all the meter boats, 6m's and 12m's included not to mention 30 sq. m's.

 

I love that look. Take a look at how far aft Frankie's headstay is tacked. 6.5'!

Frankieatthebeach_zpsf97cdf30.jpg

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Bull:

If you have a long and light, Scandinavian type, hull the rig need not be huge for a good SA/D. You have a desired mast location for balance. You have an idea headstay angle and fore triangle area for power and balance and the headstay just happens to hit well aft of the stem. This is a very common feature of all the meter boats, 6m's and 12m's included not to mention 30 sq. m's.

 

I love that look. Take a look at how far aft Frankie's headstay is tacked. 6.5'!

 

It is a nice look, one of the things I like about my boat, and one of many nice things about Frankie.

 

Is part of the idea to "stretch" the hull to get a longer waterline for a given rig size?

 

The H-Boat and the J24 have very similar rig sizes (260 and 261), similar displacement (3100 and 3200), and similar LWLs (20.7 and 20.0), but beams of 7.2 and 8.9 and LOAs of 27.25 and 24. A west coast sailor told me that the H-Boat will sail upwind better than a J24, but not downwind.

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Bull:

It would depend on the rating rule that was in effect for the boat. If you are talking about the Square meter classes the answer is yes. If you are talking about the Universal and International rules the answer is again yes. Extended overhang was an effort to gain unmeasured sailing length. But in many cases, like yoru boat, I think it was just a matter of style and what people were used to seeing.

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Just took a brief skim while in the grocery store and took a look through the June copy of Wooden Boat mag. They have some pics/article about a gentleman just finishing up doing a home built wood H-28.

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Bull:

It would depend on the rating rule that was in effect for the boat. If you are talking about the Square meter classes the answer is yes. If you are talking about the Universal and International rules the answer is again yes. Extended overhang was an effort to gain unmeasured sailing length. But in many cases, like yoru boat, I think it was just a matter of style and what people were used to seeing.

 

H boats seem to be rated fairly in IRC. If you take slip fees out of the question, extra length without having to increase sail area makes a lot of sense. More speed and seaworthiness in a boat that is not harder to handle, who can be against that?

 

I realise that this wasn't the original aim of the boat but is the "Francis Lee" fairly rated in IRC? Or is it a matter of "not how we expect a boat to be built, let's make sure she can't win!)

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Bull:

It would depend on the rating rule that was in effect for the boat. If you are talking about the Square meter classes the answer is yes. If you are talking about the Universal and International rules the answer is again yes. Extended overhang was an effort to gain unmeasured sailing length. But in many cases, like yoru boat, I think it was just a matter of style and what people were used to seeing.

 

H boats seem to be rated fairly in IRC. If you take slip fees out of the question, extra length without having to increase sail area makes a lot of sense. More speed and seaworthiness in a boat that is not harder to handle, who can be against that?

 

I realise that this wasn't the original aim of the boat but is the "Francis Lee" fairly rated in IRC? Or is it a matter of "not how we expect a boat to be built, let's make sure she can't win!)

 

When I first sat down with Bob to create the FRANCIS LEE I told him I wanted a boat for the pure pleasure of sailing (you may read that to mean fast with minimal effort.) I wanted the "biggest" boat I could handle by myself (I am currently a very healthy and reasonably fit 67 year old and I use to single hand my Swede 55.) We figured that 20,000 pounds would be about the limit.

 

But most importantly I wanted the boat to go throught the water as well as possible without any regard to any handicaping rules. That was the last mention of handicaping we had during the year we spent getting her designed. Bob was more than happy to comply with my wishes and he never mentioned rating rules after our first meeting. We met pretty much every Monday after that as I watch the Maestro in action.

 

Several people have suggested we have her measured for IRC, however I only do races with her to learn her sailing characteristics better and I have no interest in really long (read that as "overnight") races. Maybe we will get her measured to see where she falls. But that would only be to gather more information. First I think we will rerun her VPP with updated information.

 

BTW, I had known Bob casually for 30 years and I spent that year with him on the design so I got to know him quite well. Yes he can be blunt sometimes, but he is really a very smart, talented, interesting and decent guy. I am very happy to call him a good friend. He has a great deal of information and knowledge about many things that he shares very generously if you take the time to get to know him. (But he does not suffer people who want to get into his face well. I guess not many of us do.)

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Looks like a brand new boat Bull - very nice.

 

Still waiting for pics of the spreader tips though. :wacko:

post-54228-0-18939200-1431384288_thumb.jpg

 

post-54228-0-77917300-1431384297_thumb.jpg

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Just took a brief skim while in the grocery store and took a look through the June copy of Wooden Boat mag. They have some pics/article about a gentleman just finishing up doing a home built wood H-28.

I saw that article too. It was about a Herreshoff H-28. This topic is about one of Hans Groop's H-Boats.

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Kim, you can take the boy out of Ashfield, but you can't take Ashfield out of the boy ....

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Hey Olaf,,,,do they let Ashfield boys into your yacht club. I'd like to die belong to one yacht club before I die and none of the local ones will have me. I'd like to start the process so I can join your yacht club. Seriously, I would I promise not to run naked through the dining room. Seattle Yacht Club apparently frowns on that. " Did you order the Bratwurst madam?" Maybe I can get Globs to second me.

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Looks like a brand new boat Bull - very nice.

 

Still waiting for pics of the spreader tips though. :wacko:

attachicon.gifIMG_1929.jpg

 

attachicon.gifIMG_1930.jpg

 

 

Were those investment castings?

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Hey Olaf,,,,do they let Ashfield boys into your yacht club. I'd like to die belong to one yacht club before I die and none of the local ones will have me. I'd like to start the process so I can join your yacht club. Seriously, I would I promise not to run naked through the dining room. Seattle Yacht Club apparently frowns on that. " Did you order the Bratwurst madam?" Maybe I can get Globs to second me.

Well, they let Kim in, so you should stand a chance.

Pm me if you are serious, can easily find a proposer and seconder.

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Looks like a brand new boat Bull - very nice.

 

Still waiting for pics of the spreader tips though. :wacko:

attachicon.gifIMG_1929.jpg

 

attachicon.gifIMG_1930.jpg

 

 

Were those investment castings?

 

While I do consider them an investment, I think they were machined and then polished.

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Looks like a brand new boat Bull - very nice.

 

Still waiting for pics of the spreader tips though. :wacko:

attachicon.gifIMG_1929.jpg

 

attachicon.gifIMG_1930.jpg

 

 

Were those investment castings?

 

While I do consider them an investment, I think they were machined and then polished.

 

They sure are pretty!!

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^^ That's right. I was going to take a third photo with the pin but got distracted.

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TONIC is splashing later today. Yippee!

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Congratulations. Hope all goes well. Got some gin to go with that tonic, to celebrate?

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We had a successful splash this afternoon, and an iddy-biddy sail under jib only to the slip. Tomorrow SWMBO and I have a full day sailing date. I'll put together some pics over the next few days and post.

 

Thanks to all of you for the good wishes and encouragement.

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We had a successful splash this afternoon, and an iddy-biddy sail under jib only to the slip. Tomorrow SWMBO and I have a full day sailing date. I'll put together some pics over the next few days and post.

 

Thanks to all of you for the good wishes and encouragement.

 

Pics of the sailing, or pics of the date?

 

G-Rated pics only please!

 

BTW: How is the "Flex-Shot" holding up?

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Q, thank you for reminding me of that. Flex-Shot is a fantastic product. Absolutely no problems. :P

 

Here are some pics from launch day:

 

BC staying out of the way as TONIC has her mast stepped.

post-54228-0-17884000-1431877012_thumb.jpg

 

BC and TONIC sliding into the water (BYO in blue shirt).

post-54228-0-99247100-1431876388_thumb.jpg

 

In her slip

post-54228-0-75910100-1431876254_thumb.jpg

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Beautiful Bull - great to start the summer with what looks like a brand new boat.

 

You have every right to be proud of it.

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I really like the look with your white mains'l cover. A+

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Q, thank you for reminding me of that. Flex-Shot is a fantastic product. Absolutely no problems. :P

 

Here are some pics from launch day:

 

BC staying out of the way as TONIC has her mast stepped.

attachicon.gifIMG_1969.jpg

 

BC and TONIC sliding into the water (BYO in blue shirt).

attachicon.gifIMG_1984.jpg

 

In her slip

attachicon.gifIMG_1983.jpg

 

I've seen MUCH scarier stuff at that Steel Creek ramp. They launched a big Beneteau with a 7' keel and it fell off the trailer as the stern started trying to float up. Literally "splashed" it but apparently turned out all right.

 

Great job, boat looks awesome!

 

FB- Doug

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SWMBO and I had a very enjoyable first sail on TONIC yesterday. Operating the motor and tiller from the lazarette deck is tricky, but I think I will get used to it. The Honda 2 pushes it nicely. The boat has a Harken sail track for the main, which is great. The sail practically raises itself.

 

There were no major hiccups. The jib furler, also a Harken, jammed a few times. I think I have to get out the instructions and adjust the reel exit. I replaced almost all of the running rigging. I used a builder's guide for the lengths, but everything seems to be long. Must be a conspiracy.

 

The wind was south about 5 knots when we left, and built to about 10. We "tacked" downwind for a several miles with the main and class jib. The large-ish main works well this way, and the jib has pretty low clew, and doesn't get so blanketed. The hull didn't leave much of a wake considering our speed, which is a good thing, right?

 

First meal on board was Italian subs, chips and beer.

 

We met up with two well-sailed boats who were leading on the return leg of a PHRF race, a Hunter 38 and a Catalina 355. We close reached home with them, staying out of their way, and I was very pleased with TONIC's windward ability. In the end we gave up ground, but sometimes we made up ground on them. There are some things I needed to do on sail shape that will help - like rig the outhaul and tension the jib halyard (duh) - but the boat has a really good feel. I was really pleased that in the larger gusts, she is not as dependent on crew weight as the J22. She is narrow, 7.2', but has a 50% ballast/displacement ratio, albeit cast iron.

 

There were a lot of admirers on the dock before and after our sail, which was gratifying. One remarked that I had made life more difficult for him and other slackers.

 

If I can get some video or nice pics of her underway, I will post them.

 

Cheers!

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Amateur slackers. We highly accomplished slackers (??) are too lazy and apathetic to gin up those levels of envy or self-criticism. "Oh -- that guy's boat looks really sharp. *burp* Bet he worked really hard on it. *scratch scratch* Good job, man."

 

Good job, man. :)

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Congratulations on a job well done and a great first sail. The boat looks just fabulous.

 

Hopefully I'll get the sails on mine tomorrow so I can go for a sail.

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Congratulations on the whole trip, from purchase to now. You have raised the bar in your harbor.

 

Better too long than too short.

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SWMBO and I had a very enjoyable first sail on TONIC yesterday. Operating the motor and tiller from the lazarette deck is tricky, but I think I will get used to it. The Honda 2 pushes it nicely. The boat has a Harken sail track for the main, which is great. The sail practically raises itself.

 

There were no major hiccups. The jib furler, also a Harken, jammed a few times. I think I have to get out the instructions and adjust the reel exit. I replaced almost all of the running rigging. I used a builder's guide for the lengths, but everything seems to be long. Must be a conspiracy.

 

The wind was south about 5 knots when we left, and built to about 10. We "tacked" downwind for a several miles with the main and class jib. The large-ish main works well this way, and the jib has pretty low clew, and doesn't get so blanketed. The hull didn't leave much of a wake considering our speed, which is a good thing, right?

 

First meal on board was Italian subs, chips and beer.

 

We met up with two well-sailed boats who were leading on the return leg of a PHRF race, a Hunter 38 and a Catalina 355. We close reached home with them, staying out of their way, and I was very pleased with TONIC's windward ability. In the end we gave up ground, but sometimes we made up ground on them. There are some things I needed to do on sail shape that will help - like rig the outhaul and tension the jib halyard (duh) - but the boat has a really good feel. I was really pleased that in the larger gusts, she is not as dependent on crew weight as the J22. She is narrow, 7.2', but has a 50% ballast/displacement ratio, albeit cast iron.

 

There were a lot of admirers on the dock before and after our sail, which was gratifying. One remarked that I had made life more difficult for him and other slackers.

 

If I can get some video or nice pics of her underway, I will post them.

 

Cheers!

Super. Great to hear that you are out racing her. You know you were racing don't you?

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^^ Oh yes. I was definitely racing, and I knew I was racing. My wife knew "we" were racing, and the skipper of the Catalina knew I was racing.

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Great to see Bull. This has been a great thread to follow, I hope you'll continue to keep it updated.

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Really like what you've done to the H boot.

 

If you haven't gone to a new outboard here's my $.02. We found ourselves an L7 tri last May for trailering around the lakes over here, and it had a Tohatsu small outboard on it, and even with a pretty easy to reach engine mount, it was pretty obvious that it weighed enough that it would soon enough hurt or strain something on my 63 year old body. So we went to West Marine and found a Torqeedo.

Same thrust as the Tohatsu, but the motor and long shaft weighs IIRR ~12 lbs, and the battery weighs about the same, and you can separate them very very very easily. So easily that we take the thing off after a sail and stow it in the cabin so it won't get lifted. And we lost 3 small Honda outboards off our Ultimate 20 basically because the thing was toooooooo fucking heavy to move. Anyway, we added an extra battery just in case, a roll up solar panel, it doesn't stink, and it's light as a sail to deal with. We get about 4 hours at 4K per battery, while the other gets some recharge with the plug in solar panel.

 

As far as your pulled back forestay and an assymetrical- here's an argument for it-post-906-0-09190000-1432044718_thumb.jpg

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Really like what you've done to the H boot.

 

If you haven't gone to a new outboard here's my $.02. We found ourselves an L7 tri last May for trailering around the lakes over here, and it had a Tohatsu small outboard on it, and even with a pretty easy to reach engine mount, it was pretty obvious that it weighed enough that it would soon enough hurt or strain something on my 63 year old body. So we went to West Marine and found a Torqeedo.

Same thrust as the Tohatsu, but the motor and long shaft weighs IIRR ~12 lbs, and the battery weighs about the same, and you can separate them very very very easily. So easily that we take the thing off after a sail and stow it in the cabin so it won't get lifted. And we lost 3 small Honda outboards off our Ultimate 20 basically because the thing was toooooooo fucking heavy to move. Anyway, we added an extra battery just in case, a roll up solar panel, it doesn't stink, and it's light as a sail to deal with. We get about 4 hours at 4K per battery, while the other gets some recharge with the plug in solar panel.

 

As far as your pulled back forestay and an assymetrical- here's an argument for it-attachicon.gifimage.jpg

Thanks, Amati. Where do you sail?

 

The boat in the picture is really nice looking. What is it?

 

Your experience with the Torqueedo is good to hear, since that is what I'm likely to get if I'm not happy with the Honda 2. I would probably get an extra battery and the remote throttle. Does the L7 displace about 1,200 lbs.? The H-Boot displaces 3,200 lbs.

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This is a later model H OB bracket. There's a sled with 4 rollers going up and down those U rails. It's designed to get the weight forward since the overhangs are very long and thin. H pitches very easily. That makes the prop ventilate violently when motoring in high seas, or fooling around in bow solo. Long shaft is def. only viable option.

moottoriteline2.jpg

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My oh my, it's a shame putting all that crap (motor and mount) on such a pretty stern. I'd still vote IB. If a one cylinder diesel is too $ and smell, then perhaps an electric motor or small gas motor...I think there's still a couple of tiny gas auxiliaries in production in UK.

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My boat had one of those OB mounts. I took it off. Here is what the transom looks like now. It was awful to drill the holes and mount the bracket, but I didn't see any viable option.

 

post-54228-0-40792800-1432074409_thumb.jpg

 

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Interesting Ish, has anyone put an electric engine on an old Volvo sail drive?

There are a lot of 120's around cheap as folks need to change up to 130's for the new D1 engines.

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Interesting Ish, has anyone put an electric engine on an old Volvo sail drive?

There are a lot of 120's around cheap as folks need to change up to 130's for the new D1 engines.

 

I'm sure we can come up with something that will work. The saildrive bottom end doesn't care where the motive force comes from.

 

You have done a great job on the boat, Bull. Very sweet.

 

It just cries out for a small inboard. Doesn't have to be diesel...

 

unnamed-1-175x195-175x195.jpg

 

Cheaper than diesel, too. http://www.electricyacht.com/product/quiettorque-5-0sd-saildrive/

Ish, that costs $8,000! Are you mad?

 

 

Absolutely raving starkers.

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Really like what you've done to the H boot.

 

If you haven't gone to a new outboard here's my $.02. We found ourselves an L7 tri last May for trailering around the lakes over here, and it had a Tohatsu small outboard on it, and even with a pretty easy to reach engine mount, it was pretty obvious that it weighed enough that it would soon enough hurt or strain something on my 63 year old body. So we went to West Marine and found a Torqeedo.

Same thrust as the Tohatsu, but the motor and long shaft weighs IIRR ~12 lbs, and the battery weighs about the same, and you can separate them very very very easily. So easily that we take the thing off after a sail and stow it in the cabin so it won't get lifted. And we lost 3 small Honda outboards off our Ultimate 20 basically because the thing was toooooooo fucking heavy to move. Anyway, we added an extra battery just in case, a roll up solar panel, it doesn't stink, and it's light as a sail to deal with. We get about 4 hours at 4K per battery, while the other gets some recharge with the plug in solar panel.

 

As far as your pulled back forestay and an assymetrical- here's an argument for it-attachicon.gifimage.jpg

Thanks, Amati. Where do you sail?

 

The boat in the picture is really nice looking. What is it?

 

Your experience with the Torqueedo is good to hear, since that is what I'm likely to get if I'm not happy with the Honda 2. I would probably get an extra battery and the remote throttle. Does the L7 displace about 1,200 lbs.? The H-Boot displaces 3,200 lbs.

 

The pic is of Amati, our Perry 40er ULDB cruising sled. Designed 1998, built 1999. (Yes, Bob Perry, a name which might be familiar to some here. :)) We keep her in Friday Harbor, in the San Juan Islands, Washington State :wub: . So we sail the the Salish Sea, US and Canada. Inboard Diesel, Saildrive. 9600 lbs of tiller steered yabadabadoo.....

 

The L7 weighs in at about 1700 lbs. But the WS might be about the same? Windage is more of a problem than displacement, if you're staying within 1 * the square root of the WL speed, IMHO. We sail the L7 in the fabulous lakes of the Inland PNW. ( We live near Northern Idaho.) Perhaps sailing in saltwater, someday, to get to places that 8.5' of draft (read: Amati) kind of, um, limits.

 

Remote throttle might be a good idea if you can't get to the motor's throttle control easily- the prop thrust is instantaneous, both forward and reverse. Very very cool. I'm always stopping 10 feet from where I want. And wait until you actually want to go forward- very little mush between backing up and going forward.

 

I don't have the motor in from of me to get the model, but it seems to me the Torqeedo site has a good chart for what motor what boat. I used it, seems fine. I think there is a line between a battery on top of the motor and a battery inside the boat. But the main thing is a nice light motor that you can put away so easily that you do it without thinking about it, and frankly, a boat without a motor showing (and especially without a motor mount showing) is a sexy thing. That, and will you be using a motor for any distance when the wind is up?

 

I've always thought the electric setup for the Schock Harbor (what is it? 21?) is perfect. The electric motor folds/pivots out of the a lazarette in the back of the boat. The battery is separate. Very Easy. Really easy, actually.

 

Electrics really give a lot more options...

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That is neat Amati, I see a job for WLYDO coming up.

 

I like the idea of the motor not being on the end of the boat, less cavitation in a swell.

 

It could work on the side, as long as the boat isn't heeling to the other side.

 

Let's start, how about fabricating a mount that sits over the side of the cockpit, maybe attached to a winch, with a torquedo clamped to the mount?

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post-906-0-22773400-1432096844_thumb.jpg

 

~ 4,000 lbs?

 

Shit, I don't remember precisely. Bob might know??????????

 

Even if we don't quite agree on new cellists.........

 

:lol:

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I like the idea of the motor not being on the end of the boat, less cavitation in a swell.

 

It could work on the side, as long as the boat isn't heeling to the other side.

 

Let's start, how about fabricating a mount that sits over the side of the cockpit, maybe attached to a winch, with a torquedo clamped to the mount?

 

As I've said earlier, I remember seeing a "requin" being set up like this and this is what I would do. As long as the propeller is immersed a 3hp will be powerful enough to get the boat moving and light enough to be handlifted into the cockpit once not needed. Ccontrols will also be easy to access and starting it will be easier. The traditionalists will not like it but that's what I would do!

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That OB-mount with a heavy motor on it will probably be really detrimental for the fore/aft trim, the stern will sink in much more than desirable. In light winds it will make a difference. We use the same design as shwon by ch3oh, which is pretty much the standard design here on H-boats. It moves the weight of the OB a couple of inches further inboard at least, but pulling up the OB can be a pain because sometimes the car will jam... Maybe the torqueedo is a good idea in the long run.

 

Consider this, maybe. On any boat with a rear overhang and a rear mounted OB the prop is likely to surface when motoring in waves, which will not get you far + hurt the engine, even with a longshaft on this boat. However, on inland waters when there's considerable waves there's usually wind, so you'll probably sail anyway. You really just need a motor for dead calms and possibly for docking once inside the breakwater. A small engine will do.

 

I've never heard of an inboard on an H-boat, but then you could probably find on with a shower, a head and a microwave if you tried. To me, at that size, an IB doesn't make sense, considering the extra weight, the more complicated maintenance and the costs for installing it in a design that was not meant to have one. Plus there's an extra through-hull.

 

What a beauty, btw. Great work.

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The OB is a nuisance, but necessary. Sailing on an inland lake, it's just for getting in and out of the marina and for when the wind dies. The Honda 2 weighs under 30 lbs., has a long (22") shaft, so it's not too bad.

 

I saw a side mounted bracket for an OB that looked pretty nice. It's made by Ballentine's Boat Shop (http://www.ballentinesboatshop.com/torqeedo.html):

post-54228-0-74930100-1432129599_thumb.jpg

post-54228-0-29198200-1432129282_thumb.jpg

It's shown with a Torqueedo, which makes sense, since you would want to stow the OB below and remove the bracket when sailing. This would be too much work for me. I am lazy, and leave the OB on the stern while sailing, and while at the dock. Although if I were to get a Torqueedo, I would stow it below when putting the boat to bed.

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