Bull City

H-Boat Renovation Project

Recommended Posts

On 7/2/2018 at 10:35 AM, Jdmilnes2 said:

Penrose is in the water. 

I first laid my eyes on this boat in the  yard seven years ago.  Probably in the water for the first time in around ten years.  It is as they say, a labor of love.

IMG_7640.JPG

IMG_7683 small.jpg

Very Nice JD!

Now for the perfect picture, get a mainsail cover that matches the color of the boot and cove stripe, get the round fender of the deck, close the foredeck hatch  and loose the outboard.  Then take the pic.  Send to Bull to paint for you. (Then you can put the outboard back one, etc :P)

Now go get sailing!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎7‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 2:46 PM, Crash said:

Very Nice JD!

Now for the perfect picture, get a mainsail cover that matches the color of the boot and cove stripe, get the round fender of the deck, close the foredeck hatch  and loose the outboard.  Then take the pic.  Send to Bull to paint for you. (Then you can put the outboard back one, etc :P)

Now go get sailing!

Agreed!  I have to put some money back into the coffers, but yes a new sail cover is in the works...The "round fender" is the mooring pin....and I can easily lose the hatch and the outboard for a pic.  So Bull is also an Artist....does he do everything??  ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah, so it is the mooring pin...shoulda looked closer, but was distracted by the beauty of the boat.  Ok, for picture purposes, put mooring pin on opposite side of cabin so not seen by camera:rolleyes:

 

Bull is a true renaissance man 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎7‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 2:12 PM, Alan H said:

Seriously, though....Really nice job.

H-boats are the bomb for two folks to sail and with a little tillerpilot you can singlehand them all over the place. You are gonna have FUN!....Also, the H Boat was honestly the easiest boat I've ever had to use the spinnaker on.  The pole is small enough that you don't have to have a bridle. A good solid pole and a mid-pole attachment for the foreguy and topping lift and you are set. The chute is small so it's easy to gybe and if it gets crazy you can manhandle it down.  Sure, they aren't rocketship fast but they're easy to sail to their rating and they're steady.  You can do long distance races with them, too...couple hundred miles is no biggie.

 

You are gonna have fun.

Thanks for that.  I know these boats for their size have a lot to offer.  Definitely plan to club race a bit, but mostly cruise.  My gal in fresh to sailing, but loves it.  Yesterday I fed the new halyards into the mast without incident, and tonight I will crimp on some shackles so I can get the damn thing under sail.  The bottom (shape) of the boat is so slippery, my 3-1/2 Tohastu pushes the boat along wonderfully (6+mph).  I have no criticism of the boat yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Crash said:

Ah, so it is the mooring pin...shoulda looked closer, but was distracted by the beauty of the boat.  Ok, for picture purposes, put mooring pin on opposite side of cabin so not seen by camera:rolleyes:

 

Bull is a true renaissance man 

He's someone we all look up to....:D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You'll see that the boat has the interior of an oversized, old-skool 23-footer.  I mean, *duh* you've been working on it you know what you got, but when you spend a weekend on it, you'll really understand. However, it sails nothing like that old-skool 23-footer so it's all good.  I think your lady is gonna like it.  The H-boat is sporty enough that it scoots along just fine, but it's heavy enough that it's stable.  Baby won't plane, but if you get 3 foot waves behind you, and 15+ knots  with the chute up, she'll surf at 8+.  I had mine up over 9 once, coming down a big wave outside the Golden Gate. She'll do 7 all day long on a deep reach in a breeze.  The cockpit is perfect for two people.

You'll come to hate going all the way aft to set up the outboard but aside from that one single detail, the boat is an absolute delight. ALL boat have something that's a PITA it wouldn't be right to not have *Something* ! LOL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/5/2018 at 10:28 AM, Crash said:

Bull is a true renaissance man... 

Who will paint most anything for money! :D 

But seriously Doug, you have done right by the boat, and for that you deserve God's favor, as do all of us who take care of stray dogs and boats.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Bull City said:

Who will paint most anything for money! :D 

But seriously Doug, you have done right by the boat, and for that you deserve God's favor, as do all of us who take care of stray dogs and boats.

Thank you Bull. 

I do (and other crazy people too) find great satisfaction in returning something neglected (particularly something beautiful), back to working condition.  Anytime I visit a boat yard full of neglected boats, I want to grab them all and take them to a barn to be restored.  I could give a rats ass about poorly designed sailboats or motor boats, but when a sailboat with beautiful lines has been abandoned, it drives me nuts.  I have learned that the vast majority of people these days just don't have the energy, or perhaps vision for it.  Point in case:  this weekend, after ,many months of work, my gal and I sailed Penrose for the first time.  Maybe the first time she was moving under sail in over 10 years.  I swear to you the boat looks and feels happy, they have a soul.

She sailed great, and spent two days on the boa in gorgeous weather.  Good stuff.

H-Boat Sailing04.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎7‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 2:28 PM, Alan H said:

You'll see that the boat has the interior of an oversized, old-skool 23-footer.  I mean, *duh* you've been working on it you know what you got, but when you spend a weekend on it, you'll really understand. However, it sails nothing like that old-skool 23-footer so it's all good.  I think your lady is gonna like it.  The H-boat is sporty enough that it scoots along just fine, but it's heavy enough that it's stable.  Baby won't plane, but if you get 3 foot waves behind you, and 15+ knots  with the chute up, she'll surf at 8+.  I had mine up over 9 once, coming down a big wave outside the Golden Gate. She'll do 7 all day long on a deep reach in a breeze.  The cockpit is perfect for two people.

You'll come to hate going all the way aft to set up the outboard but aside from that one single detail, the boat is an absolute delight. ALL boat have something that's a PITA it wouldn't be right to not have *Something* ! LOL

Right on all counts.  There is a beauty in the simplicity.  No complicated systems to worry about.  Just a clean, fun little boat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been knocking together information to send to Nor Cal PHRF about my Piper O.D. and since the only place anybody has any data on these things is on the Clyde, in Scotland, I did some research. Upshot was, from one longtime class stalwart, that the Piper is "faster than a Folkboat but slower than a Dragon and about the same as a Sonata."

This got me looking at a bunch of race results from the Clyde Yacht Clubs Association. Lo and Behold, there are beaucoup  H Boats racing on the Clyde.  Their time allowance is exactly the same as a Dragon , and they have a LOT of data  - decades of it-  on which to base that.  Nor Cal PHRF has the Dragon at 192.  It has the H Boat at 186.  It has the H Boat at 186 because I'm the guy who originally applied for a rating and I started out with 168. After two seasons of not being able to finish anything but DFL or next-to-DFL, I finally did some boat on boat speed testing  with two other boats and applied for a rating change, requesting 186.  I got it, and I started finishing mid-fleet fairly often.

If you apply PHRF New Englands  "ORC to PHRF" conversion formula to the H Boat (and Dragon),  using UK-derived ORC ratings you get about 210.  PHRF New England has the H-Boat at 192.....exactly the same as the Dragon.

Conclusion, if you have to apply for a PHRF rating, it should probably be in the 190's.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Alan H said:

Conclusion, if you have to apply for a PHRF rating, it should probably be in the 190's.

Interesting. In a few PHRF races, I've had 186.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, there aren't very many H Boats in North America and such as there are, they're widely spread apart. There are (were)  supposedly 5 in the SF Bay Area but I've only ever seen three of them.  The only one that has raced in the past 20 years is mine, either with me driving it or with the subsequent owner.   So performance information is scarce.

However, on the Clyde in Scotland, guys have been racing Dragons against H Boats in large numbers since the late 60's, and there's a ridiculous amount of data backing up their conclusions that should have the same time-on-time handicap.  Ergo...kinda makes sense to rate them the same over here. So if your local PHRF squad has a rating for a Dragon, and it's somewhere between 188 and 204, or thereabouts, that's probably what you should be getting for your H Boat.

BTW, I goofed up there. PHRF New England has the H Boat at 195   --  http://www.phrfne.org/page/567 --      But the Dragon at 216.

NorCal PHRF has the Dragon at 192.  International H Boat at 186

PHRF Long Island has the Dragon at 228 -  International  H Boat at 189

PHRF Pacific Northwest should have a rating for both designs but they don't seem to publish their base ratings on line.

 

Here's a One Design ORC certificate for an H Boat, and considering as ORC has a bumptyzillion H Boats and races over the span of almost 50 years from which to acquire data, this magic number is probably pretty accurate.

http://data.orc.org/public/od/2017/hboat.od.pdf

As you can see, their Time-on-Distance rating for "Ocean" is 0.8197  and their Time-on-Distance rating for Windward-Leeward is  0.8261

Look here:  http://www.phrfne.org/page/handicapping/conversion_formulae

PHRF New England recommends the following formula for calculating a starter PHRF number from an ORC rating - ( 650 / ORC ) - 557 = PHRF
Do the math...  (650 / 0.8197 ) - 557 =  174  -  that's for "ocean".  Do if for Windward/Leeward and you get 169.    Ain't no way an H Boat can sail to those PHRF ratings, so there you go.

More than we ever wanted to know about H  Boat ratings.
 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎7‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 9:09 PM, Alan H said:

Well, there aren't very many H Boats in North America and such as there are, they're widely spread apart. There are (were)  supposedly 5 in the SF Bay Area but I've only ever seen three of them.  The only one that has raced in the past 20 years is mine, either with me driving it or with the subsequent owner.   So performance information is scarce.

However, on the Clyde in Scotland, guys have been racing Dragons against H Boats in large numbers since the late 60's, and there's a ridiculous amount of data backing up their conclusions that should have the same time-on-time handicap.  Ergo...kinda makes sense to rate them the same over here. So if your local PHRF squad has a rating for a Dragon, and it's somewhere between 188 and 204, or thereabouts, that's probably what you should be getting for your H Boat.

BTW, I goofed up there. PHRF New England has the H Boat at 195   --  http://www.phrfne.org/page/567 --      But the Dragon at 216.

NorCal PHRF has the Dragon at 192.  International H Boat at 186

PHRF Long Island has the Dragon at 228 -  International  H Boat at 189

PHRF Pacific Northwest should have a rating for both designs but they don't seem to publish their base ratings on line.

 

Here's a One Design ORC certificate for an H Boat, and considering as ORC has a bumptyzillion H Boats and races over the span of almost 50 years from which to acquire data, this magic number is probably pretty accurate.

http://data.orc.org/public/od/2017/hboat.od.pdf

As you can see, their Time-on-Distance rating for "Ocean" is 0.8197  and their Time-on-Distance rating for Windward-Leeward is  0.8261

Look here:  http://www.phrfne.org/page/handicapping/conversion_formulae

PHRF New England recommends the following formula for calculating a starter PHRF number from an ORC rating - ( 650 / ORC ) - 557 = PHRF
Do the math...  (650 / 0.8197 ) - 557 =  174  -  that's for "ocean".  Do if for Windward/Leeward and you get 169.    Ain't no way an H Boat can sail to those PHRF ratings, so there you go.

More than we ever wanted to know about H  Boat ratings.
 

 

 

Well that is some juicy stuff......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now