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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

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Alpha pull your head out.

 

Ben Ainslie will be in prime time and sky or beeb will pay. Same with France3 or Eurosport if Franck makes it. Same with Torborn. Will they pay enough to cover the costs of production? Unlikely. But there is no question that Europe will care a lot, at least until their home team is knocked out.

There's no way that Ben will displace the nightly soaps at 8 - and even if they are on different channels, the viewing audience will be reduced because of that (the Mrs will insist on her daily dosis of Eastenders, Neighbours, X factor and what not)

 

Ben will most assuredly run in prime time in the UK guaranteed. In fact his sponsor negotiations have included this arrangement. Whether the rest of the regatta gets any play is a different story. thank god for proxy servers.

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Thats's an idiotic post but to try add context anyway:

 

Morgan's Point, the ex US Naval Air Station Facility on the eastern edge of the Great Sound, has for years been desperately in need of a gigantic cash infusion. It needs a very big fish to chomp up that cleanup and development cost, so it's at least possible that LE will be the real estate 'shark' who will make that transformation finally happen.

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Alpha pull your head out.

 

Ben Ainslie will be in prime time and sky or beeb will pay. Same with France3 or Eurosport if Franck makes it. Same with Torborn. Will they pay enough to cover the costs of production? Unlikely. But there is no question that Europe will care a lot, at least until their home team is knocked out.

There's no way that Ben will displace the nightly soaps at 8 - and even if they are on different channels, the viewing audience will be reduced because of that (the Mrs will insist on her daily dosis of Eastenders, Neighbours, X factor and what not)

 

 

Ben will most assuredly run in prime time in the UK guaranteed. In fact his sponsor negotiations have included this arrangement. Whether the rest of the regatta gets any play is a different story. thank god for proxy servers.

 

 

Prime time and prime channels are two different things. I've lost count of the free-to-view channels here now, must be 40+. Let alone subscription. Let alone streaming and the BBC has plans to move one middling rank "youth" channel to free streaming only. But for all this choice, 98%+ of viewing is still channels 1-5 and if we see AC coverage on those in prime time outside news slots I'll be amazed.

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Why doesn't Ben get Harry involved?

 

Then the Poms are sure to suck up every little tidbit of this AC especially now it is going to be held within the British Empire .

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Anybody else think we'll see team bases set up in Newport? Where there is easy access to boat builders, rig builders, sails, real estate? Practice in a bay that is of the same scale in terms of size, wind and waves. Then just put the race boat on a 2-day cruise to BDA for regatta prep and racing?

 

Nope, not a chance.

 

Not after seeing the fully staffed containerized boat/sail/rigging/electronics repair facility that the VOR is shipping port-to-port for every stop.

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Anybody else think we'll see team bases set up in Newport? Where there is easy access to boat builders, rig builders, sails, real estate? Practice in a bay that is of the same scale in terms of size, wind and waves. Then just put the race boat on a 2-day cruise to BDA for regatta prep and racing?

 

Nope, not a chance.

 

Not after seeing the fully staffed containerized boat/sail/rigging/electronics repair facility that the VOR is shipping port-to-port for every stop.

.

 

...the VO actually has 2 of those set-ups,,each travelling to each 2nd port ;)

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Alpha pull your head out.

 

Ben Ainslie will be in prime time and sky or beeb will pay. Same with France3 or Eurosport if Franck makes it. Same with Torborn. Will they pay enough to cover the costs of production? Unlikely. But there is no question that Europe will care a lot, at least until their home team is knocked out.

There's no way that Ben will displace the nightly soaps at 8 - and even if they are on different channels, the viewing audience will be reduced because of that (the Mrs will insist on her daily dosis of Eastenders, Neighbours, X factor and what not)

 

Ben will most assuredly run in prime time in the UK guaranteed. In fact his sponsor negotiations have included this arrangement. Whether the rest of the regatta gets any play is a different story. thank god for proxy servers.

 

Prime time and prime channels are two different things. I've lost count of the free-to-view channels here now, must be 40+. Let alone subscription. Let alone streaming and the BBC has plans to move one middling rank "youth" channel to free streaming only. But for all this choice, 98%+ of viewing is still channels 1-5 and if we see AC coverage on those in prime time outside news slots I'll be amazed.

 

I think you will, and that's because of SKM involvment. Plus I was rankly shocked that Ben was the front page of the news and lead story for TV for pretty much the entirety of my stay in Cornwal (the last 5 races of the AC, I think)...every newspaper, every day. The UK clearly has the appetite for it - literally ten times the news coverage there than there was here.

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What goes onto prime time/prime channel TV in the UK is about all audience figures & sod all to do with Keith Mills. Both commercial channels and BBC1 obsessively chase viewership. News does not get high viewer numbers, which is why it's been displaced from prime-prime time.

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The Portsmouth ACWS announcement got enormous news publicity in the UK. If the Ben Ainslie campaign continues to get that much attention over there then you'd think significant TV audiences will follow.

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The Portsmouth ACWS announcement got enormous news publicity in the UK.

Enormous? I live less than an hour away and betcha none of my non-sailing friends even noticed. Spending your days scouring the web for AC-related announcements has distorted your perspective.

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^

Good list. I'd just add:

 

- AC45F Class Rule

 

- any changes to the AC62?

 

 

There are several quotes that identify the revised AC45 class as continuing to be one design. I am interested to hear who is going to be building what, who is doing the installations etc

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The Portsmouth ACWS announcement got enormous news publicity in the UK.

Enormous? I live less than an hour away and betcha none of my non-sailing friends even noticed. Spending your days scouring the web for AC-related announcements has distorted your perspective.
It's perfectly clear even from 'scouting the web' (where else is better?) that BAR has had the attention of the Prime Minister, and of Royalty.

 

There were also radio segments about the Portsmouth announcement, including on the BBC. Someone must have heard those.

 

So far, I'd say BAR is generating more publicity than any other AC 35 team.

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Royalty and politicians shake a lot of hands. It's what they do. Not the same as "enormous publicity".

 

I think TNZ still gets more attention in NZ than BAR does here.

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Big decision made - Bermuda.

Not the USA.

At least the Swiss had an excuse, no home waters.

Sorry Coutts, you are a real coozer.

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There were also radio segments about the Portsmouth announcement, including on the BBC.

 

Holy shit. There were RADIO SEGMENTS? That's some serious juice right there!

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There were also radio segments about the Portsmouth announcement, including on the BBC.

 

Holy shit. There were RADIO SEGMENTS? That's some serious juice right there!

Okay, there were TV segments too.

 

It was just a frikkin' ACWS event announcement, not a boat race; not sure why you think it should or ever would get wall-to-wall news coverage.

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Just think if SPB or GD came-out and said he was going to hold the defense somewhere other than Auckland? They would be roasted before the ink on the press release was dry. Funny that GD or DB was not present for the big announcement. DC mentioned Hawaii and there was a bit of a fit made over that. The NYYC at least had a station and summered in Newport. Will GGYC set-up an auxiliary club in BER?

 

It is a sad day, the money and more has taken over. And from a defender that does not have money worries. Note the use of 'teams', not 'defender' or 'challengers', for the participants. Sad indeed. I expected more from these guys back in '07-'10. Sure, try and make something of it but to abandon your 'home waters'. Might have as well just sailed it on Lake Geneva for SNG instead of all the fuss and then VLC.

 

Like Clean says, I'm too old to matter anymore................

 

edit: Like 'Mammie' in 'Gone With the Wind' told Rhett Butler: "it aint fittin', it just aint fittin'..."

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Bermuda was the best choice.

 

The possible 30M is not an issue, they will recover it with the tourists, a part of them will most surely be recurrent.

Tourism is, I guess, one of Bermuda major activity.

 

No issue with hotel vacancy too, however I wonder how easy it will be to find a plane ticket and the fare we have to pay. Let's hope that the market will work and that offer will meet demand.

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There were also radio segments about the Portsmouth announcement, including on the BBC.

 

Holy shit. There were RADIO SEGMENTS? That's some serious juice right there!

 

My teletype was off the hook :)

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At http://www.redbull.com/uk/en/stories/1331693152116/red-bull-youth-americas-cup-2017-announcement#

 

The Red Bull Youth America’s Cup is coming back.

 

The series features 10 national teams comprised of sailors aged 19-23 – in 2017, young crews will race the foiling version of AC45 wing-sailed catamarans, taking flight above the water just like the America’s Cup crews they hope to join.

 

The Red Bull Youth America’s Cup was an instant success on its debut in San Francisco in 2013, with NZL Sailing Team taking the victory – skipper Peter Burling and team-mate Blair Tuke were rewarded with a place on the boat with Emirates Team New Zealand as they seek to challenge for the full 35th America's Cup against ORACLE TEAM USA, with the action also in Bermuda, in June 2017.

 

ctd

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Gonna screw up the Marion-Bermuda race I am sure too. What a bummer.

 

Gonna screw up the Marion-Bermuda race I am sure too. What a bummer.

 

Yeah - that was one of the first thoughts to enter my head. I'm assuming a lot of boats will be in Bermuda for the cup, so where will the Marion racers tie up? Slip space is going to be a priority and the dinghy club will be in demand.

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Nice map here of the existing attractions in the North Basin at the Royal Naval Dockyard. Currently most all of the public areas, stores, museums, and restaurants are all all on the northern section, the AC Village will be built in the South Basin. This will really complete the restoration of the Dockyard.

http://www.thewestend.bm/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Brochure-Map-and-Info-20142.pdf

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Not sure there is any potential impact on Marion Race. The Marion Race boats tend to stay about 3-4 days before they head home, with the numbers as low as they have been recent years, they are easily accommodated with RHADC dock space as berth holders move out for the race. Additionally, a new marina has just been finished off Hamilton Princess where I would expect many of the AC visiting yachts would berth, much more convenient and RHADC cannot really handle much more then a few @ 50+ feet. Of more concern is probably the 30+ large sport fishing machines, custom yachts @ 50 '+ that descend on Bermuda in the summer for the fishing season and completely occupy RBYC's free space, and some @ RHADC, although again, with the new Princess marina there is more quality space available. Finally, the island has plenty of warning to get itself organized for berths..it will get sorted out.

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from http://mobile.royalgazette.com/article/20141203/SPORT03/141209907

...

I think Bermuda will really get behind us as a team because of the fact that we are bringing it there.

Spithill and his Oracle team-mates plan to set up base in Bermuda by the summer to begin preparations for next Octobers Americas Cup World Series featuring the foiling AC45 catamaran.

As a team wed like to get there soon as we can, he said, but that involves some logistics.

We have workshop containers, our boats and we are going to set up a facility there as well.

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I am hosting a panel discussion here at the M32 Worlds with Jimmy, Terry, Rod Davis, Morgan Larson, and Bermudian owner/driver Alec Cutler tomorrow night. Focus on Bermuda and what to expect over the next year.

 

Post questions here and we'll get 'em answered.

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Valencia was chosen in part for its normally-dependably tight wind range, a major factor in cutting out flukey luck where the choice of which side to take up or down the course is a winning or losing gambit, moreso than in steadier conditions. The same proved mostly true in SF, there weren't too-big shifts or pressure variations from side to side.

 

So my question is: Why choose a venue with wind so variable, so undependable? Did 'sailing' and the ethos of a true design competition get factored way below naked commercial considerations?

 

Would it not have been a great deal more AC-honorable, AC-Intent, AC-tradition, AC-design Challenge, and AC-historic-wise for LE to suck it up and race the America's Cup in SF again?

 

Aren't we losing a lot, way too much, by kneeling at the Cross of Commercialism?

 

Was it LE's preference to stay home, but he just let RC talk him into this as a last-chance 'prove-it' radical experiment at some 'self-sustaining' target that LE of all people should rightly not give a rip about, absent RC's pressing?

 

I would like to know the conversation LE had with RC. Maybe JS can shed some light on that, in a brutally honest way if he does know the truth of it.

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will give it a shot. I will definitely give Jimmy a straight question about all that, and see how the rest follow up. Mostly intersted in Rod Davis thoughts on that - he is fully old school with Grant for years but now signed on to Artemis.

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For any of them: Is the Red Bull Youth America's Cup winner going to be determined through a match race? If it is just a fleet race like last year, how can they legitimately call it a "Youth America's Cup"?

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I don't expect either of JS or RD to 'throw anyone under the bus' (certainly on the record) but yes, both might have interesting perspectives to share during a late night convo. Even JS must privately see the AC world differently from RC, let alone from LE; it's not like they necessarily all follow the exact same preachers from birth, the bigger surprise would be if they did.

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Boat questions:

 

Do you anticipate that the more advanced AC62 will be as quick as the more powerful - but older - AC72?

 

What sailing marvels should we expect? Upwind foiling seems likely, but what about flying tacks?

 

An interesting feature of Bermuda racing conditions is wind range. SF had a consistent wind machine - but BER is all over the show. Light air takeoff seems critical - but big air can be expected as well. Does this present additional technical challenges?

 

Anything else you would like to reveal about the AC62.

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Flying AC45 questions:

 

What is low end take off speed?

 

What will top end speed be?

 

Articulating rudders?

 

Upwind foiling?

 

Flying tacks?

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We will only have about 25 minutes, we will be recording portions of it for later release. Saturday we will have a live talk show with the Melges 32 skippers about the future of the class.

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I don't expect either of JS or RD to 'throw anyone under the bus' (certainly on the record) but yes, both might have interesting perspectives to share during a late night convo. Even JS must privately see the AC world differently from RC, let alone from LE; it's not like they necessarily all follow the exact same preachers from birth, the bigger surprise would be if they did.

 

Jimmy is always a great chat off the record or at the pub, and we've already caught up on a lot. He's so damned likeable, especially when he's losing! Entertaining on the record, but no one really gets anything out of Jimmy that he doesn't let out when the cams are rolling. At least I've got bigger arms than him now though.

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I am hosting a panel discussion here at the M32 Worlds with Jimmy, Terry, Rod Davis, Morgan Larson, and Bermudian owner/driver Alec Cutler tomorrow night. Focus on Bermuda and what to expect over the next year.

 

Post questions here and we'll get 'em answered.

when will agreements /docs be released ? or process flow chart s

 

for brem circus ie host city/country agreement s and types of uscg type permits - even drafts for processing in government

 

and 2nd question who is the main ''host''? looks like its directly with bermuda government /uk

 

thanks

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I am hosting a panel discussion here at the M32 Worlds with Jimmy, Terry, Rod Davis, Morgan Larson, and Bermudian owner/driver Alec Cutler tomorrow night. Focus on Bermuda and what to expect over the next year.

 

Post questions here and we'll get 'em answered.

Could you just ask Jimmy if he'll marry me? I promise I'm an upgrade... :D

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Question: From the development we have seen over the last cycle where do you think we will be two or three cycles down the road? Same AC62's or possibly another platform?

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I am hosting a panel discussion here at the M32 Worlds with Jimmy, Terry, Rod Davis, Morgan Larson, and Bermudian owner/driver Alec Cutler tomorrow night. Focus on Bermuda and what to expect over the next year.

 

Post questions here and we'll get 'em answered.

when will agreements /docs be released ? or process flow chart s

 

for brem circus ie host city/country agreement s and types of uscg type permits - even drafts for processing in government

 

and 2nd question who is the main ''host''? looks like its directly with bermuda government /uk

 

thanks

add

 

what about isaf / are they out ? in ? maybe?

 

and isnt true that jobbo ''stinkeyes'' jobson brokered the deal with berm govt ?

 

who will be supreme sailing authority org ?

 

thanks

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Pretty good (and 'RG' is going to have to change, in context anyway)

 

 

The race is under way

 

RG: In our opinion

 

With yesterdays confirmation that Bermuda will indeed serve as the venue for the 35th Americas Cup, defending champion Larry Ellison has made good on his intention to remake the venerable sailing competition in his own unconventional image.

http://mobile.royalgazette.com/article/20141203/COMMENT01/141209899

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I am hosting a panel discussion here at the M32 Worlds with Jimmy, Terry, Rod Davis, Morgan Larson, and Bermudian owner/driver Alec Cutler tomorrow night. Focus on Bermuda and what to expect over the next year.

 

Post questions here and we'll get 'em answered.

when will agreements /docs be released ? or process flow chart s

 

for brem circus ie host city/country agreement s and types of uscg type permits - even drafts for processing in government

 

and 2nd question who is the main ''host''? looks like its directly with bermuda government /uk

 

thanks

add

 

what about isaf / are they out ? in ? maybe?

 

and isnt true that jobbo ''stinkeyes'' jobson brokered the deal with berm govt ?

 

who will be supreme sailing authority org ?

 

thanks

will bermuda get their own ''team '' in 45 cat s ? or is bar the sole British invasion ?

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I am hosting a panel discussion here at the M32 Worlds with Jimmy, Terry, Rod Davis, Morgan Larson, and Bermudian owner/driver Alec Cutler tomorrow night. Focus on Bermuda and what to expect over the next year.

 

Post questions here and we'll get 'em answered.

Could you just ask Jimmy if he'll marry me? I promise I'm an upgrade... :D

 

Blondie...Didn't you already take a shot at Jimmy this spring in St. Thomas?

 

Maybe you could at least start by offering to swap hats with him.

http://sailinganarchy.com/2014/11/20/you-know-you-want-it/

post-2060-0-31061600-1417657379_thumb.jpg

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Despite all the hope and angst about why the AC35 should remain in "home waters," I think you're witnessing the final evoluntionary de-nationalization of the America's Cup. Legal? I'll leave that to our resident "legal" expert Jimmy Tom Rosas aka MSP, or other AC scholars who are more qualified (than him) and who have chimed in from time to time. In retrospect, none of us should have expected a different result -- from the beginning after America won, it's been a technology challenge cloaked in national maritime exellence. That the goal has evolved from old money to new money shouldn't have surprised anyone.

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Times do change.

 

Those proudly proclaiming that TNZ will never ever hold the Cup anywhere but in Auckland may be right; but they may also be admitting to clinging to a parochial and a too-old-fashioned romantic sensibility, one that the LE's of the world have already left in the global wake.

 

For 4 decades LE has been extremely successful in forecasting today's and tomorrow's times; it could be that his vision means he's onto something, uncomfortably progressive.

--

 

a similar opinion:

 

"So his decision to plump for Bermuda over San Diego in theory, the more obvious and pragmatic site for the next Cup will have come as a genuine surprise only to the yachting worlds traditionalists.

 

They will doubtless be crying into their Stingers tonight at yacht clubs all over the world because of yet another unorthodox move by the maverick computer mogul and two-times Cup winner to reposition high-end sailing as a sport with mass appeal rather than an elitist, exclusive pastime.

 

For Mr Ellisons view of sailing is as very far removed from the hidebound world of yachting caps, brass-buttoned blazers and gaff-rigged sloops as his computer programming is from the abacus."

http://mobile.royalgazette.com/article/20141203/COMMENT01/141209899

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Oh for fuck's sake, quit lionizing the son of a bitch. If you've ever in your life tried using an Oracle data base you'd know that it's nothing particularly groundbreaking.

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Back to Ehman, he was side lined, but why ?

Obviously Larry did not need anymore a Deed specialist, RC is a much better asset now and won the war.

What did he decided as GGYC vice commodore ? He obviously was not in favor of Bermuda but is probably still paid by Larry.

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Back to Ehman, he was side lined, but why ?

Obviously Larry did not need anymore a Deed specialist, RC is a much better asset now and won the war.

What did he decided as GGYC vice commodore ? He obviously was not in favor of Bermuda but is probably still paid by Larry.

Your total ignorance is simply amazing.

 

If you're trying to impress others with what you think you know, you couldn't be more wrong.

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Oh for fuck's sake, quit lionizing the son of a bitch. If you've ever in your life tried using an Oracle data base you'd know that it's nothing particularly groundbreaking.

t

 

And if you've ever tried to implement or use a SAP ERP system it shines by comparison unless you speak german.

 

I've implemented SAP and used Oracle and their is no comparison. That's the reason SAP consultants pull $350.00 an hour in the valley, because no one can figure that shit out.

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Back to Ehman, he was side lined, but why ?

Obviously Larry did not need anymore a Deed specialist, RC is a much better asset now and won the war.

What did he decided as GGYC vice commodore ? He obviously was not in favor of Bermuda but is probably still paid by Larry.

Your total ignorance is simply amazing.

 

If you're trying to impress others with what you think you know, you couldn't be more wrong.

Yes, I am nearly sure he was not in favor of Bermuda. That may not have prevented him to vote for Bermuda, or more probably to accept to give all power to RC with the same result..

 

But as usual you are wrong, I don't know, I am just guessing, you are the one who should know but........ generally knows nothing.

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Oh for fuck's sake, quit lionizing the son of a bitch. If you've ever in your life tried using an Oracle data base you'd know that it's nothing particularly groundbreaking.

 

Let the media's anus sucking begin! Jesus it's disgusting to watch, and now you know why I despise the term 'journalist'.

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the maverick computer mogul

What a load of old cobblers. LE has made a fortune out of other people's ideas and closing down the opposition, by buying them if necessary. Nothing wrong with the first, anyone who think capitalism is supposed to be about competition won't be so keen on the second. But what the hell makes him a "maverick"?

his computer programming is from the abacus.

Anyone who has had the joy of installing Oracle knows it isn't that far on from an abacus. Like something from the 1980s.

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Maverick is the word old people or foreigners use to describe someone unpredictable, or someone they don't quite understand. Thanks to Sarah Palin and the horror of election cycle lyricism, the word is more or less meaningless these days.

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a similar opinion:

 

"So his decision to plump for Bermuda over San Diego in theory, the more obvious and pragmatic site for the next Cup will have come as a genuine surprise only to the yachting worlds traditionalists.

 

They will doubtless be crying into their Stingers tonight at yacht clubs all over the world because of yet another unorthodox move by the maverick computer mogul and two-times Cup winner to reposition high-end sailing as a sport with mass appeal rather than an elitist, exclusive pastime.

 

For Mr Ellisons view of sailing is as very far removed from the hidebound world of yachting caps, brass-buttoned blazers and gaff-rigged sloops as his computer programming is from the abacus."

 

That point of view may lead to Bermudas undoing. The real answer is 42.

 

As in 42 million dollars. This is the only reason we are in Bermuda.

 

It's wrong for so many reasons:

 

Bermuda is screwed. Why did they pay ACEA 30 million to host the cup when it has been aptly demonstrated it is no gold mine. The IOC is having noteworthy trouble these days finding cities foolish enough to host the Olympics - hello?

 

Teams angling for sponsorship are screwed. It's no secret that TNZ is wounded. "Good for Europe" is a myth. There is but a single flight from Europe to Bermuda everyday. Bermuda is all but invisible to Europe.

 

Spectators are screwed. Anybody thinking of visiting Bermuda to watch the cup - please do some research! Oh - but Michael Douglas and Catherine Zeta Jones are building a big new hotel! No - they aren't. They are building an exclusive small resort. Unless you are rich or famous, please don't apply.

 

Who wins: ACEA.

 

Or - I'm completely wrong - and ACEA is setting a precedent here that all cups are likely to follow.

 

Or - We get three boats backed by billionaires in AC35 - in a remote and exclusive location.

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a similar opinion:

 

"So his decision to plump for Bermuda over San Diego in theory, the more obvious and pragmatic site for the next Cup will have come as a genuine surprise only to the yachting worlds traditionalists.

 

They will doubtless be crying into their Stingers tonight at yacht clubs all over the world because of yet another unorthodox move by the maverick computer mogul and two-times Cup winner to reposition high-end sailing as a sport with mass appeal rather than an elitist, exclusive pastime.

 

For Mr Ellisons view of sailing is as very far removed from the hidebound world of yachting caps, brass-buttoned blazers and gaff-rigged sloops as his computer programming is from the abacus."

That point of view may lead to Bermudas undoing. The real answer is 42.

 

As in 42 million dollars. This is the only reason we are in Bermuda.

 

It's wrong for so many reasons:

 

Bermuda is screwed. Why did they pay ACEA 30 million to host the cup when it has been aptly demonstrated it is no gold mine. The OOC is having noteworthy trouble these days finding cities foolish enough to host the Olympics - hello?

 

Teams angling for sponsorship are screwed. It's no secret that TNZ is wounded. "Good for Europe" is a myth. There is but a single flight from Europe to Bermuda everyday. Bermuda is all but invisible to Europe.

 

Spectators are screwed. Anybody thinking of visiting Bermuda to watch the cup - please do some research! Oh - but Michael Douglas and Catherine Zeta Jones are building a big new hotel! No - they aren't. They are building an exclusive small resort. Unless you are rich or famous, please don't apply.

 

Who wins: ACEA.

 

Or - I'm completely wrong - and ACEA is setting a precedent here that all cups are likely to follow.

 

Or - We get three boats backed by billionaires in the cup - in a remote and exclusive location.

 

 

Firstly, somebody has to pay for the fun.., and I didn't hear you offering any money!

 

Second - Bermudians are pretty smart.., and they will be taking a long term view of the cost/benefit calculation. They have been trying for some time to reinvigorate their tourism business - especially the hotel-based part, because i think they have realized that the cruise ship passengers don't spend any money.

 

Bermuda has always been a popular honeymoon destination (I was conceived there!) for east coast people, but other than that, I think they mostly rely on a small group of repeat visitors.

 

The cup will showcase the island to perhaps millions of viewers who have never thought of going there.., and I'm pretty sure that after they see how spectacularly beautiful it is, many will be thinking of visiting.

 

Third - A lot of west coast people don't seem to "get" Bermuda... It's not really "exclusive" in the sense that you are thinking. Most hotels are very simple by the standards of modern tourism. Also, with a few exceptions, they are generally not all that expensive. The type of high-spending travelers that you are thinking of often skip Bermuda because the resorts mostly don't have the amenities of high-end resorts in the caribbean for example. For sure, Bermuda would like to attract these people, and some resorts are getting the investment needed to attract them, but quite a lot of the rooms in Bermuda are still in very simple small hotels and guest houses.

 

 

.

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a similar opinion:

 

"So his decision to plump for Bermuda over San Diego in theory, the more obvious and pragmatic site for the next Cup will have come as a genuine surprise only to the yachting worlds traditionalists.

 

They will doubtless be crying into their Stingers tonight at yacht clubs all over the world because of yet another unorthodox move by the maverick computer mogul and two-times Cup winner to reposition high-end sailing as a sport with mass appeal rather than an elitist, exclusive pastime.

 

For Mr Ellisons view of sailing is as very far removed from the hidebound world of yachting caps, brass-buttoned blazers and gaff-rigged sloops as his computer programming is from the abacus."

That point of view may lead to Bermudas undoing. The real answer is 42.

 

As in 42 million dollars. This is the only reason we are in Bermuda.

 

It's wrong for so many reasons:

 

Bermuda is screwed. Why did they pay ACEA 30 million to host the cup when it has been aptly demonstrated it is no gold mine. The OOC is having noteworthy trouble these days finding cities foolish enough to host the Olympics - hello?

 

Teams angling for sponsorship are screwed. It's no secret that TNZ is wounded. "Good for Europe" is a myth. There is but a single flight from Europe to Bermuda everyday. Bermuda is all but invisible to Europe.

 

Spectators are screwed. Anybody thinking of visiting Bermuda to watch the cup - please do some research! Oh - but Michael Douglas and Catherine Zeta Jones are building a big new hotel! No - they aren't. They are building an exclusive small resort. Unless you are rich or famous, please don't apply.

 

Who wins: ACEA.

 

Or - I'm completely wrong - and ACEA is setting a precedent here that all cups are likely to follow.

 

Or - We get three boats backed by billionaires in the cup - in a remote and exclusive location.

 

Firstly, somebody has to pay for the fun.., and I didn't hear you offering any money!

 

Second - Bermudians are pretty smart.., and they will be taking a long term view of the cost/benefit calculation. They have been trying for some time to reinvigorate their tourism business - especially the hotel-based part, because i think they have realized that the cruise ship passengers don't spend any money.

 

Bermuda has always been a popular honeymoon destination (I was conceived there!) for east coast people, but other than that, I think they mostly rely on a small group of repeat visitors.

 

The cup will showcase the island to perhaps millions of viewers who have never thought of going there.., and I'm pretty sure that after they see how spectacularly beautiful it is, many will be thinking of visiting.

 

Third - A lot of west coast people don't seem to "get" Bermuda... It's not really "exclusive" in the sense that you are thinking. Most hotels are very simple by the standards of modern tourism. Also, with a few exceptions, they are generally not all that expensive. The type of high-spending travelers that you are thinking of often skip Bermuda because the resorts mostly don't have the amenities of high-end resorts in the caribbean for example. For sure, Bermuda would like to attract these people, and some resorts are getting the investment needed to attract them, but quite a lot of the rooms in Bermuda are still in very simple small hotels and guest houses.

 

 

.

Thanks for the insight. It's true - I know little about Bermuda.

 

I also feel that Larry and Russell have every right to do what they like - they earned it.

 

I am simply questioning the pundits who believe they are witnessing the birth of a new self sustaining model. Perhaps there are more rich sailing states in the world willing to ante up solely for the sake of PR and marketing. But - without both teams and spectators - I doubt it.

 

It is undeniable. The selection of Bermuda is both anti-team, and ant-spectator.

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the maverick computer mogul

What a load of old cobblers. LE has made a fortune out of other people's ideas and closing down the opposition, by buying them if necessary. Nothing wrong with the first, anyone who think capitalism is supposed to be about competition won't be so keen on the second. But what the hell makes him a "maverick"?

his computer programming is from the abacus.

Anyone who has had the joy of installing Oracle knows it isn't that far on from an abacus. Like something from the 1980s.
You may have struck some nugget of truth. Oracle might have begun in the eighties - but it dominated later by simply being a better product.

 

Just like the giant trimaran and 17 - the competition was crushed via better design.

 

But the flip side of Oracle - like virtually everything else they do - is not so elegant. Perhaps, like this jump to Bermuda, it's just about the money.

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a similar opinion:

 

"So his decision to plump for Bermuda over San Diego in theory, the more obvious and pragmatic site for the next Cup will have come as a genuine surprise only to the yachting worlds traditionalists.

 

They will doubtless be crying into their Stingers tonight at yacht clubs all over the world because of yet another unorthodox move by the maverick computer mogul and two-times Cup winner to reposition high-end sailing as a sport with mass appeal rather than an elitist, exclusive pastime.

 

For Mr Ellisons view of sailing is as very far removed from the hidebound world of yachting caps, brass-buttoned blazers and gaff-rigged sloops as his computer programming is from the abacus."

That point of view may lead to Bermudas undoing. The real answer is 42.

 

As in 42 million dollars. This is the only reason we are in Bermuda.

 

It's wrong for so many reasons:

 

Bermuda is screwed. Why did they pay ACEA 30 million to host the cup when it has been aptly demonstrated it is no gold mine. The OOC is having noteworthy trouble these days finding cities foolish enough to host the Olympics - hello?

 

Teams angling for sponsorship are screwed. It's no secret that TNZ is wounded. "Good for Europe" is a myth. There is but a single flight from Europe to Bermuda everyday. Bermuda is all but invisible to Europe.

 

Spectators are screwed. Anybody thinking of visiting Bermuda to watch the cup - please do some research! Oh - but Michael Douglas and Catherine Zeta Jones are building a big new hotel! No - they aren't. They are building an exclusive small resort. Unless you are rich or famous, please don't apply.

 

Who wins: ACEA.

 

Or - I'm completely wrong - and ACEA is setting a precedent here that all cups are likely to follow.

 

Or - We get three boats backed by billionaires in the cup - in a remote and exclusive location.

 

 

 

Firstly, somebody has to pay for the fun.., and I didn't hear you offering any money!

 

Second - Bermudians are pretty smart.., and they will be taking a long term view of the cost/benefit calculation. They have been trying for some time to reinvigorate their tourism business - especially the hotel-based part, because i think they have realized that the cruise ship passengers don't spend any money.

 

Bermuda has always been a popular honeymoon destination (I was conceived there!) for east coast people, but other than that, I think they mostly rely on a small group of repeat visitors.

 

The cup will showcase the island to perhaps millions of viewers who have never thought of going there.., and I'm pretty sure that after they see how spectacularly beautiful it is, many will be thinking of visiting.

 

Third - A lot of west coast people don't seem to "get" Bermuda... It's not really "exclusive" in the sense that you are thinking. Most hotels are very simple by the standards of modern tourism. Also, with a few exceptions, they are generally not all that expensive. The type of high-spending travelers that you are thinking of often skip Bermuda because the resorts mostly don't have the amenities of high-end resorts in the caribbean for example. For sure, Bermuda would like to attract these people, and some resorts are getting the investment needed to attract them, but quite a lot of the rooms in Bermuda are still in very simple small hotels and guest houses.

 

 

As I recall, about 4 years ago (or was it slightly different clean ?, it makes a huge difference in my point) many flipped out about LE's decision to move the AC to 72' cats, along with the idea about reaching starts, the fact that cats can't match race, and the problems with the compressed course in the bay, all of which were going to destroy the event and the cup forever.

 

When all was said and done it resulted in the best and closest AC finals in 163 years, (or was it something slightly different than 163 years ?, clean to confirm).

 

Like I said then, I'll take a wait and see approach to Bermuda, think it could be just fine. SF, the best sailing venue is totally arrogant and Bermuda seems in need, so it could be a good match which could just help the AC out. Teams surely aren't going to fund the expense, and just because LE could it doesn't mean he should. If a success for Bermuda, it could help the AC out longer term regardless of who wins.

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a similar opinion:

 

"So his decision to plump for Bermuda over San Diego in theory, the more obvious and pragmatic site for the next Cup will have come as a genuine surprise only to the yachting worlds traditionalists.

 

They will doubtless be crying into their Stingers tonight at yacht clubs all over the world because of yet another unorthodox move by the maverick computer mogul and two-times Cup winner to reposition high-end sailing as a sport with mass appeal rather than an elitist, exclusive pastime.

 

For Mr Ellisons view of sailing is as very far removed from the hidebound world of yachting caps, brass-buttoned blazers and gaff-rigged sloops as his computer programming is from the abacus."

That point of view may lead to Bermudas undoing. The real answer is 42.

 

As in 42 million dollars. This is the only reason we are in Bermuda.

 

It's wrong for so many reasons:

 

Bermuda is screwed. Why did they pay ACEA 30 million to host the cup when it has been aptly demonstrated it is no gold mine. The OOC is having noteworthy trouble these days finding cities foolish enough to host the Olympics - hello?

 

Teams angling for sponsorship are screwed. It's no secret that TNZ is wounded. "Good for Europe" is a myth. There is but a single flight from Europe to Bermuda everyday. Bermuda is all but invisible to Europe.

 

Spectators are screwed. Anybody thinking of visiting Bermuda to watch the cup - please do some research! Oh - but Michael Douglas and Catherine Zeta Jones are building a big new hotel! No - they aren't. They are building an exclusive small resort. Unless you are rich or famous, please don't apply.

 

Who wins: ACEA.

 

Or - I'm completely wrong - and ACEA is setting a precedent here that all cups are likely to follow.

 

Or - We get three boats backed by billionaires in the cup - in a remote and exclusive location.

 

Firstly, somebody has to pay for the fun.., and I didn't hear you offering any money!

 

Second - Bermudians are pretty smart.., and they will be taking a long term view of the cost/benefit calculation. They have been trying for some time to reinvigorate their tourism business - especially the hotel-based part, because i think they have realized that the cruise ship passengers don't spend any money.

 

Bermuda has always been a popular honeymoon destination (I was conceived there!) for east coast people, but other than that, I think they mostly rely on a small group of repeat visitors.

 

The cup will showcase the island to perhaps millions of viewers who have never thought of going there.., and I'm pretty sure that after they see how spectacularly beautiful it is, many will be thinking of visiting.

 

Third - A lot of west coast people don't seem to "get" Bermuda... It's not really "exclusive" in the sense that you are thinking. Most hotels are very simple by the standards of modern tourism. Also, with a few exceptions, they are generally not all that expensive. The type of high-spending travelers that you are thinking of often skip Bermuda because the resorts mostly don't have the amenities of high-end resorts in the caribbean for example. For sure, Bermuda would like to attract these people, and some resorts are getting the investment needed to attract them, but quite a lot of the rooms in Bermuda are still in very simple small hotels and guest houses.

 

 

.

Thanks for the insight. It's true - I know little about Bermuda.

 

I also feel that Larry and Russell have every right to do what they like - they earned it.

 

I am simply questioning the pundits who believe they are witnessing the birth of a new self sustaining model. Perhaps there are more rich sailing states in the world willing to ante up solely for the sake of PR and marketing. But - without both teams and spectators - I doubt it.

 

It is undeniable. The selection of Bermuda is both anti-team, and ant-spectator.

 

I don't agree that it's "anti-spectator"

 

I am _much_ more likely to see the cup in BDA than I was in either SD or SF.

 

It's really a very easy trip for east coast spectators, and they can combine it with a family vacation - if you have little kids, and your wife (or whatever) isn't into seeing the cup, they can stay at a hotel on the (beautiful) beach, and be perfectly happy while you are watching the cup. I realize that would be possible in SD too, but it's a much longer flight for us on the east coast

 

also, i believe a decent number of east coast sailors will sail there to see it - that's what i'm thinking of doing.

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a similar opinion:

 

"So his decision to plump for Bermuda over San Diego in theory, the more obvious and pragmatic site for the next Cup will have come as a genuine surprise only to the yachting worlds traditionalists.

 

They will doubtless be crying into their Stingers tonight at yacht clubs all over the world because of yet another unorthodox move by the maverick computer mogul and two-times Cup winner to reposition high-end sailing as a sport with mass appeal rather than an elitist, exclusive pastime.

 

For Mr Ellisons view of sailing is as very far removed from the hidebound world of yachting caps, brass-buttoned blazers and gaff-rigged sloops as his computer programming is from the abacus."

That point of view may lead to Bermudas undoing. The real answer is 42.

 

As in 42 million dollars. This is the only reason we are in Bermuda.

 

It's wrong for so many reasons:

 

Bermuda is screwed. Why did they pay ACEA 30 million to host the cup when it has been aptly demonstrated it is no gold mine. The OOC is having noteworthy trouble these days finding cities foolish enough to host the Olympics - hello?

 

Teams angling for sponsorship are screwed. It's no secret that TNZ is wounded. "Good for Europe" is a myth. There is but a single flight from Europe to Bermuda everyday. Bermuda is all but invisible to Europe.

 

Spectators are screwed. Anybody thinking of visiting Bermuda to watch the cup - please do some research! Oh - but Michael Douglas and Catherine Zeta Jones are building a big new hotel! No - they aren't. They are building an exclusive small resort. Unless you are rich or famous, please don't apply.

 

Who wins: ACEA.

 

Or - I'm completely wrong - and ACEA is setting a precedent here that all cups are likely to follow.

 

Or - We get three boats backed by billionaires in the cup - in a remote and exclusive location.

 

 

 

Firstly, somebody has to pay for the fun.., and I didn't hear you offering any money!

 

Second - Bermudians are pretty smart.., and they will be taking a long term view of the cost/benefit calculation. They have been trying for some time to reinvigorate their tourism business - especially the hotel-based part, because i think they have realized that the cruise ship passengers don't spend any money.

 

Bermuda has always been a popular honeymoon destination (I was conceived there!) for east coast people, but other than that, I think they mostly rely on a small group of repeat visitors.

 

The cup will showcase the island to perhaps millions of viewers who have never thought of going there.., and I'm pretty sure that after they see how spectacularly beautiful it is, many will be thinking of visiting.

 

Third - A lot of west coast people don't seem to "get" Bermuda... It's not really "exclusive" in the sense that you are thinking. Most hotels are very simple by the standards of modern tourism. Also, with a few exceptions, they are generally not all that expensive. The type of high-spending travelers that you are thinking of often skip Bermuda because the resorts mostly don't have the amenities of high-end resorts in the caribbean for example. For sure, Bermuda would like to attract these people, and some resorts are getting the investment needed to attract them, but quite a lot of the rooms in Bermuda are still in very simple small hotels and guest houses.

 

 

.

 

 

Thanks for the insight. It's true - I know little about Bermuda.

 

I also feel that Larry and Russell have every right to do what they like - they earned it.

 

I am simply questioning the pundits who believe they are witnessing the birth of a new self sustaining model. Perhaps there are more rich sailing states in the world willing to ante up solely for the sake of PR and marketing. But - without both teams and spectators - I doubt it.

 

It is undeniable. The selection of Bermuda is both anti-team, and ant-spectator.

 

 

I don't agree that it's "anti-spectator"

 

I am _much_ more likely to see the cup in BDA than I was in either SD or SF.

 

It's really a very easy trip for east coast spectators, and they can combine it with a family vacation - if you have little kids, and your wife (or whatever) isn't into seeing the cup, they can stay at a hotel on the (beautiful) beach, and be perfectly happy while you are watching the cup. I realize that would be possible in SD too, but it's a much longer flight for us on the east coast

 

also, i believe a decent number of east coast sailors will sail there to see it - that's what i'm thinking of doing.

 

 

Sailors on the east coast also have much more history and appreciation for the cup. To most of SF it was an inconvenience.

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floater, on 04 Dec 2014 - 16:12, said:

You may have struck some nugget of truth. Oracle might have begun in the eighties - but it dominated later by simply being a better product.

Actually it began in 1970s. Better product - not many who have made a technical comparative evaluation in the period when RDBMSs were a competitive market believed that. Better marketed - absolutely and I certainly don't dismiss the value or importance of marketing. Dominates today - pretty questionable. Most of the world runs on MS Server SQL or MySQL (which, of course, Oracle bought). I make most of my income working with a product that's sold to enterprise-level clients and runs on SQL Server, Oracle and MySQL and 90% of installations go onto SQL Server.

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I don't expect either of JS or RD to 'throw anyone under the bus' (certainly on the record) but yes, both might have interesting perspectives to share during a late night convo. Even JS must privately see the AC world differently from RC, let alone from LE; it's not like they necessarily all follow the exact same preachers from birth, the bigger surprise would be if they did.

 

This is all Russelvision you say?

 

Nothing to do with Larry, his ideas, or his demands as to what he's willing to shell out on running the event and on running his Team?

Being led around by the short and curlies? - poor chap

(Funny - Russ says it's JS, the other sailors and the odd designers who are coming up with all the ideas)

 

More of the usual spinbot speculation, rinse and repeat - until it becomes a 'fact'

 

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(like my new computer at home this one will not let me 'quote' a previous post, setting issue?)

 

IE problem? You need to use a different browser. I can't quote using IE. (Or paste anything into a post either).

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I don't expect either of JS or RD to 'throw anyone under the bus' (certainly on the record) but yes, both might have interesting perspectives to share during a late night convo. Even JS must privately see the AC world differently from RC, let alone from LE; it's not like they necessarily all follow the exact same preachers from birth, the bigger surprise would be if they did.

 

This is all Russelvision you say?

 

Nothing to do with Larry, his ideas, or his demands as to what he's willing to shell out on running the event and on running his Team?

Being led around by the short and curlies? - poor chap

(Funny - Russ says it's JS, the other sailors and the odd designers who are coming up with all the ideas)

 

More of the usual spinbot speculation, rinse and repeat - until it becomes a 'fact'

 

It's perfectly reasonable to think that not everyone thinks exactly alike...

 

Clean has the opportunity to talk to JS and to Rod D, and yes of course "both might have interesting perspectives to share"

If Clean got the opportuity to interview LE, then for sure it'd be interesting to ask "Larry, his ideas, or his demands as to what he's willing to shell out on running the event and on running his Team?" But Clean clearly won't get that oppty at the Melges event so don't bother holding your breath on that one..

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floater, on 04 Dec 2014 - 16:12, said:

You may have struck some nugget of truth. Oracle might have begun in the eighties - but it dominated later by simply being a better product.

Actually it began in 1970s. Better product - not many who have made a technical comparative evaluation in the period when RDBMSs were a competitive market believed that. Better marketed - absolutely and I certainly don't dismiss the value or importance of marketing. Dominates today - pretty questionable. Most of the world runs on MS Server SQL or MySQL (which, of course, Oracle bought). I make most of my income working with a product that's sold to enterprise-level clients and runs on SQL Server, Oracle and MySQL and 90% of installations go onto SQL Server.
yeah - well I must be older than you. The battle I witnessed - and participated in - was DB2 vs. Oracle. DB2 is a beast.

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floater, on 04 Dec 2014 - 16:12, said:

You may have struck some nugget of truth. Oracle might have begun in the eighties - but it dominated later by simply being a better product.

Actually it began in 1970s. Better product - not many who have made a technical comparative evaluation in the period when RDBMSs were a competitive market believed that. Better marketed - absolutely and I certainly don't dismiss the value or importance of marketing. Dominates today - pretty questionable. Most of the world runs on MS Server SQL or MySQL (which, of course, Oracle bought). I make most of my income working with a product that's sold to enterprise-level clients and runs on SQL Server, Oracle and MySQL and 90% of installations go onto SQL Server.
yeah - well I must be older than you. The battle I witnessed - and participated in - was DB2 vs. Oracle. DB2 is a beast.

 

I remember DB2 too - yikes.

 

Compared to (Sybase-originated) SQL Server, Oracle is a beast too. A much more powerful beast that is harder to tame into getting it to do exactly as you want, but in most facets of RDMS technology it far outmuscles anything else out there and feature-wise can do a lot more by far.

 

I do like SQL Server too, for in the right places.

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yeah - well I must be older than you.

Better watch out then, Clean wants the likes of you gone from SA. 'cos he's down with the yoof.

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