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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

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Think radionz just made the same mistake we made (although link doesn't work for me so can't be sure).

There's also pics of the christening on their site with captions referring to it as 'New Zealand':

https://emirates-team-new-zealand.americascup.com/en/gallery/81_ETNZ-Race-Boat-Launch.html

 

But if we want more confusion, try this story:

https://emirates-team-new-zealand.americascup.com/en/news/222_FLYING-TO-BERMUDA.html

Refers to it as 'New Zealand Aotearoa'. Even they can't get it straight!

 

 

 

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So that's cleared that up. No one has any idea what the ETNZ boat is named officially. 

Names, when the rules will change, who BA will damage next... The Uncertainty Cup...

 

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Trouble ahead?

(and not signed by ETNZ - I think they stopped asking :))

You need to go to the original as the strike-throughs and underlining do not copy and I can't be arsed recreating them....

Clearly there are issues...(with repairs being one area it seems) but they have also now allowed one 'claim of non-compliance' "card" in each competition 'section' - per team :lol:

 

AMENDMENT 17

OF THE WORLD SAILING RACING RULES OF SAILING (AMERICA’S CUP EDITION)

VERSION 2.16

In accordance with Racing Rule 86.1 the following is a proposed amendment to the World Sailing

Racing Rules of Sailing (America’s Cup Edition) v2.16.

Deletions to the rule are marked with a strikethrough such as this, and additions to the rule are

marked with an underline such as this.

The proposed amendments are as follows:

1. RULE 60 RIGHT TO PROTEST

 

2. RULE 64.3 DECISIONS ON PROTESTS CONCERNING CLASS RULES

 

3. RULE 78 COMPLIANCE WITH CLASS RULES; CERTIFICATES

 

https://docs.google.com/a/acracemgt.com/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=YWNyYWNlbWd0LmNvbXxub3RpY2Vib2FyZHxneDoxNGVmY2ZjZDE3MWZhNTM3

 

 

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7 minutes ago, nav said:

Trouble ahead?

(and not signed by ETNZ - I think they stopped asking :))

You need to go to the original as the strike-throughs and underlining do not copy and I can't be arsed recreating them....

Clearly there are issues...(with repairs being one area it seems)

AMENDMENT 17

OF THE WORLD SAILING RACING RULES OF SAILING (AMERICA’S CUP EDITION)

VERSION 2.16

In accordance with Racing Rule 86.1 the following is a proposed amendment to the World Sailing

Racing Rules of Sailing (America’s Cup Edition) v2.16.

Deletions to the rule are marked with a strikethrough such as this, and additions to the rule are

marked with an underline such as this.

The proposed amendments are as follows:

1. RULE 60 RIGHT TO PROTEST

 

2. RULE 64.3 DECISIONS ON PROTESTS CONCERNING CLASS RULES

 

3. RULE 78 COMPLIANCE WITH CLASS RULES; CERTIFICATES

 

https://docs.google.com/a/acracemgt.com/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=YWNyYWNlbWd0LmNvbXxub3RpY2Vib2FyZHxneDoxNGVmY2ZjZDE3MWZhNTM3

 

 

Doesn't seem to change much that I can discern.

The summary I take from this is (roughly):

* Race director can't protest a boat over class rule non-compliance.

* Removed the restriction on what parts of the class rule teams can protest about.

* Restricts the number of protests each team can make to one per stage.

Is that how you read it? If so, what trouble can it cause?

 

And yeah, stopped asking ETNZ a long time ago.

To be fair, why would ETNZ even bother signing these pieces of crap when they know their vote makes no fucking difference.

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19 minutes ago, nav said:

Trouble ahead?

(and not signed by ETNZ - I think they stopped asking :))

You need to go to the original as the strike-throughs and underlining do not copy and I can't be arsed recreating them....

Clearly there are issues...(with repairs being one area it seems)

AMENDMENT 17

OF THE WORLD SAILING RACING RULES OF SAILING (AMERICA’S CUP EDITION)

VERSION 2.16

In accordance with Racing Rule 86.1 the following is a proposed amendment to the World Sailing

Racing Rules of Sailing (America’s Cup Edition) v2.16.

Deletions to the rule are marked with a strikethrough such as this, and additions to the rule are

marked with an underline such as this.

The proposed amendments are as follows:

1. RULE 60 RIGHT TO PROTEST

 

2. RULE 64.3 DECISIONS ON PROTESTS CONCERNING CLASS RULES

 

3. RULE 78 COMPLIANCE WITH CLASS RULES; CERTIFICATES

 

https://docs.google.com/a/acracemgt.com/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=YWNyYWNlbWd0LmNvbXxub3RpY2Vib2FyZHxneDoxNGVmY2ZjZDE3MWZhNTM3

 

 

Rule 60 amendment addresses the seemingly excessive water draining from BAR in their first race today, and takes away the right of a yacht to red-flag protest another yacht for a breach of a Class Rule. Seems to provide the RD and Measurement Committee with a lot of new discretions to make subjective decisions over Class Rule violations and whether or not they affected the boats' performance(s)...

Understandable why ETNZ would not sign...

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48 minutes ago, jaysper said:

* Removed the restriction on what parts of the class rule teams can protest about.

To my reading, it says teams can't red-flag protest any part of the class rule. Previously they could, just not 11.12.

So now it seems like if you think someone's non-compliant, the way to complain is through a CnC, rather than a protest.

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Umpires Question and Answer #17

Question A

What actions will the umpires take in the following situations after one yacht starts:

i) The other yacht retires.

ii) The other yacht receives outside assistance beyond that permitted under rule 41.

iii) The other yacht does not come to the race area.

iv) The other yacht does not start.

v) The other yacht is clearly damaged but continues racing. :lol:

Answer A

i) The umpires will signal that the other yacht is disqualified and the match is awarded to the

yacht that started.

ii) The umpires will signal that the other yacht is disqualified and the match is awarded to the

yacht that started.

iii) In a Match Race of the Louis Vuitton America’s Cup Qualifiers and the Louis Vuitton

America’s Cup Challenger Playoffs the umpires will signal that the other yacht is

disqualified and the match is awarded to the yacht that started.

iv) In a Match Race of the Louis Vuitton America’s Cup Qualifiers and the Louis Vuitton

America’s Cup Challenger Playoffs when the umpires a satisfied that the other yacht will

not finish they will signal that she is disqualified and the match is awarded to the yacht that

started.

v) The umpires will take no action.

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Umpires Question and Answer #16

Question A

Would a yacht, whose chase boat uses its engines whilst alongside to change the heading of

the yacht between the Warning and the Preparatory signals, break rule 27.5?

Answer A

No.

Question B

i) On a leg to a windward gate, if a port­tack yacht luffs (above her proper course), to

remain within the zone of the boundary, is she still protected under 20.2(a)?

ii) On a leg to a windward gate, if a port tack yacht bears away below her proper course

while in the zone of the boundary, and the starboard yacht has to avoid her, is the port

tack yacht protected under rule 20.2(a)?

Answer B

i) Yes. Rule 20.2(a) describes the requirements for the outside overlapped or clear­astern

yacht. There is no requirement on the inside or clear­ahead yacht to sail her proper

course; the requirement is for the right of way yacht the room to sail her proper course.

ii) No. The protection is effectively from the port tack yacht’s proper course and above.

Question C

i) With reference to rule 16.2 and 16.3, when is a port­tack yacht sailing to pass astern of a

starboard­tack yacht?

ii) Must a starboard tack yacht bear away to break rule 16.2?

Answer C

i) A port­tack yacht is sailing a course to pass astern of the starboard­tack yacht when the

port tack yacht’s course and speed will result in the port tack yacht passing astern

(downwind) of the starboard­tack yacht.

ii) Yes, a luff is not restricted by 16.2. Note: Rule 16.1 still applies.

Question D

What action will the umpires take if they believe that a non­penalised yacht is attempting to affect

or manipulate the outcome of a penalty?

Answer D

Only when the umpires are certain that a non­penalised yacht is attempting to affect how the loss

of distance is being incurred will the umpires act under rule 44.3(b).

Question E

How would a course with an MP or MS Finish option be shortened?

Answer E

When a course with an MP or MS Finish option is shortened it will be shortened to finish at a gate.

Question F

What happens if the Measurement Commiᘀee cannot decide on the water whether a boat has

serious damage. For instance, they need to haul the boat and have a look inside the hulls?

Answer F

The Measurement Commiᘀee will always make a decision on requests to check a yacht for

possible damage or injury whether on or off the water.

Question G

On the last day of a stage, a yacht has two races. In her first race she gets serious damage through

no fault of her own, and the Measurement Commiᘀee decide she can no longer race that day.

In her second race that day, does the other boat get 0 or 1 point?

Answer G

Neither boat wins the race and the race will not be run.

 

F and G could be taken as rather ominous if you wear a tinfoil hat

 

along with this...

 

AC35 Umpire Call 07

Question

Under rule 60.8, who may request that the Measurement Committee inspect a yacht for

possible serious damage or injury?

Answer

Only a Competitor may make such a request, and only in relation to their own yacht.

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On the last day of a stage.

So if etnz were up 6-5 in an elimination stage and no more races can be sailed due to damage, neither boat gets points and etnz wins?

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12 minutes ago, KiwiJoker said:

The rum assortment or Julie Dawson?

That chick at the end, is that Julie?

There's a bunch on that Goslings channel, tasty indeed. 

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5 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Nice use of yellow! Apparently I wasn't reading at the time. :)

Pfft! Not a patch on the delightful Miss Sawden!

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33 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Pfft! Not a patch on the delightful Miss Sawden!

I know this is not the french thread but if a "menage a trois" was on the offering with Miss Swaden and Miss Dawson, I would get out the whouper foil, get plenty of pressure, not jump the start, and then finish with a reach. 

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9 hours ago, Barnyb said:

I know this is not the french thread but if a "menage a trois" was on the offering with Miss Swaden and Miss Dawson, I would get out the whouper foil, get plenty of pressure, not jump the start, and then finish with a reach. 

In your dreams, Barny. And what's in it for them? Just askin.

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On 31.5.2017 at 8:56 AM, nav said:

Umpires Question and Answer #17

Question A

What actions will the umpires take in the following situations after one yacht starts:

i) The other yacht retires.

ii) The other yacht receives outside assistance beyond that permitted under rule 41.

iii) The other yacht does not come to the race area.

iv) The other yacht does not start.

v) The other yacht is clearly damaged but continues racing. :lol:

Answer A

i) The umpires will signal that the other yacht is disqualified and the match is awarded to the

yacht that started.

ii) The umpires will signal that the other yacht is disqualified and the match is awarded to the

yacht that started.

iii) In a Match Race of the Louis Vuitton America’s Cup Qualifiers and the Louis Vuitton

America’s Cup Challenger Playoffs the umpires will signal that the other yacht is

disqualified and the match is awarded to the yacht that started.

iv) In a Match Race of the Louis Vuitton America’s Cup Qualifiers and the Louis Vuitton

America’s Cup Challenger Playoffs when the umpires a satisfied that the other yacht will

not finish they will signal that she is disqualified and the match is awarded to the yacht that

started.

v) The umpires will take no action.

 

^this was 'updated' on the 4th, now reads...

 

Umpires Question and Answer #17 Updated 04 June 2017

Question A

What actions will the umpires take in the following situations after one yacht starts:

i) The other yacht retires.

ii) The other yacht receives outside assistance beyond that permitted under rule 41.

iii) The other yacht does not come to the race area.

iv) The other yacht does not start.

v) The other yacht is clearly damaged but continues racing.

Answer A

i) In a Match Race of the Louis Vuitton America’s Cup Qualifiers and the Louis Vuitton

America’s Cup Challenger Playoffs the umpires will signal that the other yacht is

disqualified and the match is awarded to the yacht that started.

ii) The umpires will signal that the other yacht is disqualified and the match is awarded to the

yacht that started.

iii) In a Match Race of the Louis Vuitton America’s Cup Qualifiers and the Louis Vuitton

America’s Cup Challenger Playoffs the umpires will signal that the other yacht is

disqualified and the match is awarded to the yacht that started.

iv) In a Match Race of the Louis Vuitton America’s Cup Qualifiers and the Louis Vuitton

America’s Cup Challenger Playoffs when the umpires a satisfied that the other yacht will

not finish they will signal that she is disqualified and the match is awarded to the yacht that

started.

v) The umpires will take no action.

 

.....which all begs the question, what will they do different in those situations (i, iii, iv) in 'The Match'??

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Not heard of any incidents,  while there are a large number of boats in The Great Sound at present,  a lot are traveling relatively slowly as they traverse to and from the racing area.  I am sure we will lose a few,  but it may not be higher than the normal rate of strikes by power boats traveling at warp speed when there is no AC on    

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Another failure of ACEA. Their powerboat is not holding up. (Video is not mine)

 

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4 hours ago, dorox said:

Another failure of ACEA. Their powerboat is not holding up. (Video is not mine)

 

Whoops.

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5 hours ago, dorox said:

Another failure of ACEA. Their powerboat is not holding up. (Video is not mine)

 

Didn't they have a blue bucket?

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On 6/8/2017 at 1:26 AM, Lima November said:

New episode...

 

Rachel: What's your favorite position? 

Him, getting an eyeful of Rachel: Grinder!

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4 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

A good guy, still doing useful things from on the ground in Bermuda

 

So that was fun to watch but let's be honest, it tells us fuck all about how both teams have gone this week. 

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^ "Jimmy Spithill and his team"

 

I've asked before, RG insists he is CEO of both ACEA and OTUSA, but the teams website does not confirm that, does anyone know for sure if it's Russ's Team in fact?

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9 minutes ago, nav said:

^ "Jimmy Spithill and his team"

 

I've asked before, RG insists he is CEO of both ACEA and OTUSA, but the teams website does not confirm that, does anyone know for sure if it's Russ's Team in fact?

Russ is 'CEO' of both the ACEA and OR is my understanding, not a good look, but here's the important part:

ACRM is independent. 

Future Defenders need to have the balls to also set it up that way.

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29 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Russ is 'CEO' of both the ACEA and OR is my understanding, not a good look, but here's the important part:

ACRM is independent. 

Future Defenders need to have the balls to also set it up that way.

 

I was hoping for something more definitive than that  ..

 

Especially given that he denied it himself - or is that just 'distancing' - given that they were getting their butts handed to them when he said it?

 

It's hard to see bodies as 'independent' when they are mostly staffed by people who take their OTUSA hats on and off as they move from job to job.

 

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As I said: The very important part is that ACRM is completely independent, even paid for equally by all contestants.

Your personal, longstanding, tinfoil-hat tomfoolery, nasty accusations against IM mean absolutely nothing.

 

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Will be interesting to see if they give the go ahead for IM to run 3 races tomorrow if it looks like the Cup could be decided with that third race.  It's obviously in the best interests of the TV product having the Match decided and prize-giving during the Sunday TV window, but OR will want to drag this out as long as they can as their odds improve every day.  

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21 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

As I said: The very important part is that ACRM is completely independent, even paid for equally by all contestants.

Your personal, longstanding, tinfoil-hat tomfoolery, nasty accusations against IM mean absolutely nothing.

 

 

Important to you obviously.

Nothing tin-foil hat about the catastrophic (deadly) management in SF, nor the HIYC disgrace, but attack and spin, it's what you do

Not as ready to re-write you personal contribution and to be quite as schmoozy with the Kiwis today as yesterday eh? Funny that......

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30 minutes ago, nav said:

 

Important to you obviously.

Nothing tin-foil hat about the catastrophic (deadly) management in SF, nor the HIYC disgrace, but attack and spin, it's what you do

Again, yes independence is important. Your tinfoil hat tomfoolery? Not at all.

ACRM is perfectly independent, exactly as it should be.

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Independence is important. Actual independence, not just the facade of it.

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4 minutes ago, Nutta said:

Independence is important. Actual independence, not just the facade of it.

Agreed. 

But 'facade' is your word, another 'all I can see is cheaters, cheaters everywhere!' insulated-island worldview.

In some parts of the world things are actually done and run with honesty. Even by the Ozzie IM,

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Pot. Kettle. Black.

Specific example: When there was a potential issue with ENTZ boards a few months back, RC was all over facebook with details of that. We've not seen any publication of any other such issues for OR (or the other poodles). If there was independence, that wouldn't have made it into the public arena.

Second example - IM quoted as saying ETNZ had been forced to use their "sacred wind" just after the pitchpole event. Again, not very independent/professional.

So, in short, fuck off.

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1 hour ago, ezyb said:

Will be interesting to see if they give the go ahead for IM to run 3 races tomorrow if it looks like the Cup could be decided with that third race.  It's obviously in the best interests of the TV product having the Match decided and prize-giving during the Sunday TV window, but OR will want to drag this out as long as they can as their odds improve every day.  

Not possible.  Only 3 are allowed if (a) the match can be decided by a third race on Sunday, or (b) they lose races to weather and have to stack them in by thursday.  Tomorrow is 2 races only, I am told.  I will stream the Murray briefing live tomorrow AM I think it is at 1030, no one else is doing it for some reason but I was given permission. 

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if you have any Murray questions, feel free to email me or send me a facebook message at facebook.com/block.alan

 

, it is easiest right now to get those.

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9 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Not possible.  Only 3 are allowed if (a) the match can be decided by a third race on Sunday, or (b) they lose races to weather and have to stack them in by thursday.  Tomorrow is 2 races only, I am told.  I will stream the Murray briefing live tomorrow AM I think it is at 1030, no one else is doing it for some reason but I was given permission. 

29.1(d) of the Protocol allows the Commercial Commissioner (with the blessing of the broadcasters) to ok a third race when "the Match may be concluded that day by staging a third race".

Armed with that, I trust you'll do the requisite prodding to find out how that discussion went :D

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just the facts (the rest of them)...   

1. SCHEDULE OF EVENTS    

https://docs.google.com/a/acracemgt.com/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=YWNyYWNlbWd0LmNvbXxub3RpY2Vib2FyZHxneDo3MzY2M2RlYTA1NTRkNjhm

1.1 As required by Protocol articles 7(c)(i), 27.3, 28.4, and 29.2 the Schedule of Events is

published by the Commercial Commissioner and is found at:

https://www.americascup.com/en/ac35-schedule.html.

1.2 As agreed with the Commercial Commissioner:

(a) any day where no racing is scheduled may be used for racing if the event is behind

schedule; (edit: not relevant any longer)

(b] that:

(i) the Qualifiers shall be terminated at the end of June 3.

(ii) the Semi Finals shall be terminated at the end of June 9;

(iii) the Challenger Playoffs shall be terminated at the end of June 15.

(iv) The 35th America’s Cup Match shall continue until the winner is determined in

accordance with Protocol Article 29.1(c] (edit: see below); and

(c] the Regatta Director may schedule races missed to be run in the

time after the broadcast window. (edit: not relevant - yet)

 

***************************************************************************************************************

29. MATCH  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1VXscKr0EoMUXhBZlo3X1JMQlk/view

29.1. Overview:

(c) the winner of the Match will be the first Competitor to score at

least seven (7) points after applying any penalties;

 

 

 

So ...... the CC (whomever that may be now) (in consultation with the broadcasters :lol:) gets to decide about a third race to conclude the regatta if

... he has notified the Competitors in the Match and the Regatta

Director by no later than 20:00 hours the previous day;

 

but IM now gets to decide about an third race (without consulting anyone (except RC, JS and LE obviously) or pre-notifying anyone (well not ETNZ anyway :D)), if

... behind schedule

 

Alles klar?

 

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America's Cup - Bermuda provides initial impact estimate of 35th Cup

by Richard Gladwell, Sail-World on 3 Jul

“But AC35 is now over and all the teams will enjoy a well-earned rest. Emirates Team New Zealand, Team France and Land Rover BAR will depart Bermuda by the end of July. We would like to give Oracle Team USA, Artemis and Softbank Team Japan the ability to maintain some presence in Bermuda even if it is substantially scaled down. This may require legislative amendments to continue existing concessions provisions. ACBDA is working with departing teams to facilitate their exit and will continue to liaise with the other teams regarding their future plans.

“Some information about AC35 is already available. I am pleased to note that through this prestigious sailing event, Bermuda received extraordinary visibility on the world stage as the Cup was broadcast to 162 countries with millions of people watching. This is only a snapshot. More details about Bermuda’s media exposure will be released as part of the final assessment report. Over 100,000 people visited the Village over 22 days, there were 62,315 booked tickets on the special AC ferries alone, and some 2,000 boats registered as spectators of the event.

 

http://www.sail-world.com/NZ/Americas-Cup---Bermuda-provides-initial-impact-estimate-of-35th-Cup/155209?source=facebook

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34 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Our man Jason, steadfast as ever

 

Indeed, nice job Jason. Looks a tad sad in truth. I wonder what happened to the motor boats black or deep grey in colour that seemed official boats? We saw one put put into port on the verge of drowning. Anyone know what they were?

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13 minutes ago, Paddywackery said:

Indeed, nice job Jason. Looks a tad sad in truth. I wonder what happened to the motor boats black or deep grey in colour that seemed official boats? We saw one put put into port on the verge of drowning. Anyone know what they were?

They were Swedish built and designed boats iirc, there were a couple nice videos about them. Must have been at least 4? They had AIS names of past AC Yacht winners. Courageous, etc.

They may become available for purchase soon, it often happens between AC cycles even if the Defender won. 

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Everything must go...

 

Bargains galore at AC35 Village

Sarah Lagan

Published Jul 29, 2017 at 8:00 am (Updated Jul 29, 2017 at 12:00 am)

 

 
  • Jon Mulligan, site manager at the America’s Cup village. (Photograph by Sarah Lagan)

    Jon Mulligan, site manager at the America’s Cup village. (Photograph by Sarah Lagan)

 

Scores of people headed to what was the America’s Cup Village yesterday hoping to scoop up furniture bargains stored in two warehouse-sized tents.

 
 

The Village was almost unrecognisable with little fanfare and just a few vehicles removing the temporary infrastructure.

America’s Cup T-shirts, hats, bags and merchandise were being sold for as little as $5 per item, while electrical and kitchen equipment were available at half-price.

The goods have been sold in three stages. The first sale was limited to AC35 staff, then partners and corporate contractors and finally the general public.

However, many items were given away, with schools, churches, charities, government agencies, the Corporation of Hamilton and the airport project benefiting from donations.


the rest.... http://www.royalgazette.com/americas-cup---news/article/20170729/bargains-galore-at-ac35-village

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2 hours ago, nav said:

Surprise, Bermuda has to pay more than anticipated .....allegedly :D

 

 

This is my surprised face :mellow:

These big events are always a money pit. ALWAYS.

Olympics, World Cup,  you name it.

Doesn't mean they don't have some longer term nett pay off, because some do.

Not the Olympics or Football World Cup. But other less extreme ones such as the AC might do, although quantifying that is nearly impossible and the bureaucrats ALWAYS knowingly lie their arse off to push the agenda.

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55 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Written by PwC to the requirements of the same bozos that signed them up for the cup.

Bermuda was a spectacular event and you really couldn't ask more from a venue (including the lovely Rachel :D ), but you will pardon me if I treat these figures with the same healthy dose of scepticism that I am applying to the upcoming Auckland cup.

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12 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Written by PwC to the requirements of the same bozos that signed them up for the cup.

Bermuda was a spectacular event and you really couldn't ask more from a venue (including the lovely Rachel :D ), but you will pardon me if I treat these figures with the same healthy dose of scepticism that I am applying to the upcoming Auckland cup.

So, now why would you say that? Are you questioning the integrity of PwC? Why would they make it up?

Are you just pissed that it looks like it was a huge financial and social success for the island? Don't let your obvious hate of Ellison/Coutts/Oracle blind you to the reality.

I was here. I saw it.

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3 minutes ago, TwoRockKnock said:

So, now why would you say that? Are you questioning the integrity of PwC? Why would they make it up?

Are you just pissed that it looks like it was a huge financial and social success for the island? Don't let your obvious hate of Ellison/Coutts/Oracle blind you to the reality.

I was here. I saw it.

Take the eye patch off dude.

Firstly, I have the same level of scepticism about the stated benefits of any such big event including the last AC in Auckland and the next.

Secondly, anyone that have even the slightest clue about how PwC, E&Y, etc operate know that its very much in their best interests to give the pay masters what they want. This is how companies can get glowing audit reports year after year before being exposed as a bunch of shonky bastards.

Have a look at my comment above and elsewhere on here about Bermuda. It was an amazing venue, but lets just be realistic about the financial aspect of things.

If you believe everything that politicians tell you, then I have recently acquired the rights to sell the Auckland Harbour Bridge on behalf of the Government.

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2 hours ago, jaysper said:

Take the eye patch off dude.

Firstly, I have the same level of scepticism about the stated benefits of any such big event including the last AC in Auckland and the next.

Secondly, anyone that have even the slightest clue about how PwC, E&Y, etc operate know that its very much in their best interests to give the pay masters what they want. This is how companies can get glowing audit reports year after year before being exposed as a bunch of shonky bastards.

Have a look at my comment above and elsewhere on here about Bermuda. It was an amazing venue, but lets just be realistic about the financial aspect of things.

I have a level of scepticism as well, but I think if you delve into the figures, whatever way you want to skin it, the event was a success for Bermuda and produced a good return on investment.

Maybe the $330m is a bit OTT. I find it hard to justify the "predicted $90.8m in future tourism spending over the next 5 years", but you cannot say that the AC will have zero impact in that regard. I do believe that the teams and organisers were responsible for $116.4m spend during their time there. You also have to accept that there was a 7.5% increase in hotel occupancy rates and that visitors who were there for the AC spent $28.7m that wouldn't have been spent with no AC. Overall, it's pretty easy to believe a spend of, say, $175m with a hard to quantify additional benefit from marketing.

Against that, they claim to have spent $64.1m. Even with scepticism and a big reduction in the total economic benefit, that's not a bad return. 

I agree with some of what you say about auditors in the past, but things have changed a fair bit in the last couple of years in particular. Some of the big boys were hit pretty hard because of poor auditing, but the climate we now have is forcing them to take a more independent role.

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1 minute ago, Team_GBR said:

I have a level of scepticism as well, but I think if you delve into the figures, whatever way you want to skin it, the event was a success for Bermuda and produced a good return on investment.

Maybe the $330m is a bit OTT. I find it hard to justify the "predicted $90.8m in future tourism spending over the next 5 years", but you cannot say that the AC will have zero impact in that regard. I do believe that the teams and organisers were responsible for $116.4m spend during their time there. You also have to accept that there was a 7.5% increase in hotel occupancy rates and that visitors who were there for the AC spent $28.7m that wouldn't have been spent with no AC. Overall, it's pretty easy to believe a spend of, say, $175m with a hard to quantify additional benefit from marketing.

Against that, they claim to have spent $64.1m. Even with scepticism and a big reduction in the total economic benefit, that's not a bad return. 

I agree with some of what you say about auditors in the past, but things have changed a fair bit in the last couple of years in particular. Some of the big boys were hit pretty hard because of poor auditing, but the climate we now have is forcing them to take a more independent role.

So, I will keep my scepticism on the financial benefits and the ethics (or otherwise) of auditors.

Push comes to shove, I assume it worked out from them from a financial perspective. But not to the level that this report is indicating.

However, I am far more sceptical about this for Auckland right now.

Another aspect of this (for both Bermuda and Auckland) that concerns me is that if too much is spent, it lands on ALL tax payers particularly hard and yet the benefits are spread among a LOT smaller group of people - namely the businesses at the pointy end of this.

However, the financial aspect is only one of the benefits of hosting the event and perhaps not even the most important one depending on your point of view. The other aspect is that how fucking boring would life be if you lived in a country that NEVER hosted such events?

And THAT is why my point has always been that these events are great to host as long as the (typically grossly overstated) benefits are not used to justify a massive spend up.

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Here you go, Jays, you’ll love it!

Taxpayers' Union Executive Director, Jordan Williams, says, “Team New Zealand is something to be proud of, but that doesn’t mean taxpayers should be forced to pay for the team. Giving money to Team NZ means private sponsors like Emirates just get a better deal."
"The Government’s role in the America's Cup is to ensure good quality infrastructure, not fund a sports team.”

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22 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Here you go, Jays, you’ll love it!

Taxpayers' Union Executive Director, Jordan Williams, says, “Team New Zealand is something to be proud of, but that doesn’t mean taxpayers should be forced to pay for the team. Giving money to Team NZ means private sponsors like Emirates just get a better deal."
"The Government’s role in the America's Cup is to ensure good quality infrastructure, not fund a sports team.”

Taxpayers Union is a nuthouse collective, Jordan Williams being Nut #1

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1 hour ago, rh2600 said:

Taxpayers Union is a nuthouse collective, Jordan Williams being Nut #1

Can't say I pay a lot of attention to them. They are irrelevant. 

I have no problem with the Government backing winners nor do I have a problem with contributing to these events. It's the magnitude that concerns me.

If you look at Bermuda, they seem to have taken a reasonably sensible approach by building just enough to make the event awesome (although the natural beauty of the Great Sound plus one or two of the natives helped a lot).

 

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Good thing on SA is that when no news,.... we have jaysper, specialist on any subject, any car, politics, NZ, US interior policy, terrorism, Bermudas, Asia, the world, capitalism, socialism...

Post on any subject, you will get the answer in the minute.

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1 hour ago, jaysper said:

Can't say I pay a lot of attention to them. They are irrelevant. 

I have no problem with the Government backing winners nor do I have a problem with contributing to these events. It's the magnitude that concerns me.

If you look at Bermuda, they seem to have taken a reasonably sensible approach by building just enough to make the event awesome (although the natural beauty of the Great Sound plus one or two of the natives helped a lot).

 

Is Rachel a BDA native?

You'd have her pic and VS up on your office wall wouldn't you, Jays?

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1 minute ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Good thing on SA is that when no news,.... we have jaysper, specialist on any subject, any car, politics, NZ, US interior policy, Asia, the world, capitalism, socialism...

Post on any subject, you will get the answer in the minute.

And don't forget he has the hots for the BDA natives - well, one in particular anyway. ;)

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46 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Good thing on SA is that when no news,.... we have jaysper, specialist on any subject, any car, politics, NZ, US interior policy, terrorism, Bermudas, Asia, the world, capitalism, socialism...

Post on any subject, you will get the answer in the minute.

Lol! Cock sucker.

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10 hours ago, jaysper said:

The other aspect is that how fucking boring would life be if you lived in a country that NEVER hosted such events?

 

Not boring at all. I spent one day at the sailing at the 2012 Olympics, it was quite fun but not a lot more than a day's club racing. I attended the first two ACWS events in the UK but didn't bother with the third, that's how much fun those were to attend in person.

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