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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

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Are they going to weigh the AC-45's this year

 

what is the tolerance give or take 5-10 lbs ??

 

Duck & Don't tell him who asked :o :o :o :o :lol:

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Maybe it's good? Man, you ain't had rum 'til you've had Goslings! California people need to get out more.

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Trivia time.. Does the last line of this reader comment ring a bell with anyone?

 

--

Really looking forward the AC & all of the events leading up to it in the sound. It has been awhile since we have had fast racing around the sound. There used to be a very active Tornado class cat group here in the early 80s. Also in the 80s one of the AC syndicates used Bermuda as a practice location.

http://mobile.royalgazette.com/article/20141206/SPORT30/141209778&template=mobileart

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Trivia time.. Does the last line of this reader comment ring a bell with anyone?

 

--

Really looking forward the AC & all of the events leading up to it in the sound. It has been awhile since we have had fast racing around the sound. There used to be a very active Tornado class cat group here in the early 80s. Also in the 80s one of the AC syndicates used Bermuda as a practice location.

http://mobile.royalgazette.com/article/20141206/SPORT30/141209778&template=mobileart

 

Yeah, Courageous trained there working up for '87. Dave Vietor was one of the principles.

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You may have struck some nugget of truth. Oracle might have begun in the eighties - but it dominated later by simply being a better product.

 

Any product is better than SAP!

(And I do speak German.)

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Firstly, somebody has to pay for the fun.., and I didn't hear you offering any money!

 

Second - Bermudians are pretty smart.., and they will be taking a long term view of the cost/benefit calculation. They have been trying for some time to reinvigorate their tourism business - especially the hotel-based part, because i think they have realized that the cruise ship passengers don't spend any money.

 

Bermuda has always been a popular honeymoon destination (I was conceived there!) for east coast people, but other than that, I think they mostly rely on a small group of repeat visitors.

 

The cup will showcase the island to perhaps millions of viewers who have never thought of going there.., and I'm pretty sure that after they see how spectacularly beautiful it is, many will be thinking of visiting.

 

Third - A lot of west coast people don't seem to "get" Bermuda... It's not really "exclusive" in the sense that you are thinking. Most hotels are very simple by the standards of modern tourism. Also, with a few exceptions, they are generally not all that expensive. The type of high-spending travelers that you are thinking of often skip Bermuda because the resorts mostly don't have the amenities of high-end resorts in the caribbean for example. For sure, Bermuda would like to attract these people, and some resorts are getting the investment needed to attract them, but quite a lot of the rooms in Bermuda are still in very simple small hotels and guest houses.

 

You post makes me want to visit Bermuda now before it is too late.

 

Do you think they (whoever "they" are) have long-term plans for developing Bermuda into something like the Aga and his boys did in Sardinia? It also started with sailing.

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Some numbers: http://bernews.com/2014/12/gibbons-honoured-reports-bermuda-host/

 

Extract:

  • Estimate that Bermuda will benefit from additional on-island spending of approx. $250 million
  • Estimates suggest Govt. will receive additional gross revenues of $14 million from taxes & duties
  • For both capital & operational expenses, majority of the spending will occur in 2016/2017
  • Capital costs for Government associated with site preparation, enhancements to buildings and docks, moorings, utilities and services are estimated to be about $14 million over 3 years.
  • Expenses related to the operation of the America’s Cup Village have been budgeted at $11 million over 3 years.
  • Costs for transport, security, emergency services, insurance, and legal costs budgeted at $12 million over the next 3 years.
  • Agreement with the America’s Cup Event Authority includes a sponsorship fee of $1 million in 2014, $4 million in 2015 and $5 million in each of 2016 and 2017.
  • Govt. has provided a guarantee of $25 million to the America’s Cup Event Authority against commercial sponsorship

 

Could be based in fantasy land, like almost all the sports events' benefit for venues figures.

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Larry will never give me an interview, and neither will Russell. Makes my life a lot easier.

 

Did you ask?

Probably 20 times

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So I grew up in Chicago and have east coast ties. I think that the Mega "Atlantis" type resorts foster this impression, Seems, from here, that the bigger hotels are extensions of the all inclusive type of cruise ship experience... Is that true? I will not set foot on a cruise ship unless it is in Alaska or going around the world. (maybe qe2) but I sure as heck don't want that experience on land..... Sounds like there are 2 different experiences one can have on the island...

 

Also,

To all the east coast guys thinking they can get cheap flights to watch the cup. Ummmmm I don't think so... Captive audience and I don't think AA is going to schedule a couple more planes per day.... They are goin for the euro segment and you will see prices jump a ton.

 

Just sayin

 

 

a similar opinion:

"So his decision to plump for Bermuda over San Diego in theory, the more obvious and pragmatic site for the next Cup will have come as a genuine surprise only to the yachting worlds traditionalists.

They will doubtless be crying into their Stingers tonight at yacht clubs all over the world because of yet another unorthodox move by the maverick computer mogul and two-times Cup winner to reposition high-end sailing as a sport with mass appeal rather than an elitist, exclusive pastime.

For Mr Ellisons view of sailing is as very far removed from the hidebound world of yachting caps, brass-buttoned blazers and gaff-rigged sloops as his computer programming is from the abacus."


That point of view may lead to Bermudas undoing. The real answer is 42.

As in 42 million dollars. This is the only reason we are in Bermuda.

It's wrong for so many reasons:

Bermuda is screwed. Why did they pay ACEA 30 million to host the cup when it has been aptly demonstrated it is no gold mine. The OOC is having noteworthy trouble these days finding cities foolish enough to host the Olympics - hello?

Teams angling for sponsorship are screwed. It's no secret that TNZ is wounded. "Good for Europe" is a myth. There is but a single flight from Europe to Bermuda everyday. Bermuda is all but invisible to Europe.

Spectators are screwed. Anybody thinking of visiting Bermuda to watch the cup - please do some research! Oh - but Michael Douglas and Catherine Zeta Jones are building a big new hotel! No - they aren't. They are building an exclusive small resort. Unless you are rich or famous, please don't apply.

Who wins: ACEA.

Or - I'm completely wrong - and ACEA is setting a precedent here that all cups are likely to follow.

Or - We get three boats backed by billionaires in the cup - in a remote and exclusive location.

 

 

Firstly, somebody has to pay for the fun.., and I didn't hear you offering any money!

 

Second - Bermudians are pretty smart.., and they will be taking a long term view of the cost/benefit calculation. They have been trying for some time to reinvigorate their tourism business - especially the hotel-based part, because i think they have realized that the cruise ship passengers don't spend any money.

 

Bermuda has always been a popular honeymoon destination (I was conceived there!) for east coast people, but other than that, I think they mostly rely on a small group of repeat visitors.

 

The cup will showcase the island to perhaps millions of viewers who have never thought of going there.., and I'm pretty sure that after they see how spectacularly beautiful it is, many will be thinking of visiting.

 

Third - A lot of west coast people don't seem to "get" Bermuda... It's not really "exclusive" in the sense that you are thinking. Most hotels are very simple by the standards of modern tourism. Also, with a few exceptions, they are generally not all that expensive. The type of high-spending travelers that you are thinking of often skip Bermuda because the resorts mostly don't have the amenities of high-end resorts in the caribbean for example. For sure, Bermuda would like to attract these people, and some resorts are getting the investment needed to attract them, but quite a lot of the rooms in Bermuda are still in very simple small hotels and guest houses.

 

 

.

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- a US$15m (NZ$19m) event fee to the America's Cup Events Authority


- a US$25m (NZ$32m) underwrite to cover any sponsorship shortfall by ACEA.


- US$14m (NZ$18m) for site preparation and infrastructure for docks and America's Cup village


- US$11m (NZ$14m) operation expenses for the America's Cup village.


- US$12m (NZ$15m) to cover transport costs, security, emergency services, insurances and legal bills.


You may has well bank on paying out the 25 to underwrite / cover the sponsor shortfall. That is a us40m fee to ACEA.

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So I grew up in Chicago and have east coast ties. I think that the Mega "Atlantis" type resorts foster this impression, Seems, from here, that the bigger hotels are extensions of the all inclusive type of cruise ship experience... Is that true? I will not set foot on a cruise ship unless it is in Alaska or going around the world. (maybe qe2) but I sure as heck don't want that experience on land..... Sounds like there are 2 different experiences one can have on the island...

 

Also,

To all the east coast guys thinking they can get cheap flights to watch the cup. Ummmmm I don't think so... Captive audience and I don't think AA is going to schedule a couple more planes per day.... They are goin for the euro segment and you will see prices jump a ton.

 

Just sayin

 

 

Firstly, somebody has to pay for the fun.., and I didn't hear you offering any money!

 

Second - Bermudians are pretty smart.., and they will be taking a long term view of the cost/benefit calculation. They have been trying for some time to reinvigorate their tourism business - especially the hotel-based part, because i think they have realized that the cruise ship passengers don't spend any money.

 

Bermuda has always been a popular honeymoon destination (I was conceived there!) for east coast people, but other than that, I think they mostly rely on a small group of repeat visitors.

 

The cup will showcase the island to perhaps millions of viewers who have never thought of going there.., and I'm pretty sure that after they see how spectacularly beautiful it is, many will be thinking of visiting.

 

Third - A lot of west coast people don't seem to "get" Bermuda... It's not really "exclusive" in the sense that you are thinking. Most hotels are very simple by the standards of modern tourism. Also, with a few exceptions, they are generally not all that expensive. The type of high-spending travelers that you are thinking of often skip Bermuda because the resorts mostly don't have the amenities of high-end resorts in the caribbean for example. For sure, Bermuda would like to attract these people, and some resorts are getting the investment needed to attract them, but quite a lot of the rooms in Bermuda are still in very simple small hotels and guest houses.

 

 

.

 

we have similar tastes - i've never been to an all-inclusive.., and would probably rather die than go to one..

 

i've never been on a cruise ship, and feel pretty much the same way about them - i'd rather die.

 

although i did cross the atlantic about 5-10 times on ocean liners in the early-mid 60's with my parents when i was a little kid. this was at the very end of the steamship era, and they liked to travel that way - i crossed on the France, The United States, The Queen Mary, the Leonardo da Vinci, and others you probably never heard of. it was cool, and it's too bad that mode of travel is gone.

 

anyway, there may be all inclusives on Bermuda, but i've never stayed at one, and I don't actually know of any.

 

It's not really that kind of place

 

in the bigger hotels, a lot of guests do eat many meals in the hotel dining room, in part because some of them are kind of a hike to town where the restaurants are.

 

I've stayed at the full range of places there - from the hamilton princess (not really my kind of place) to small simple family run-hotels (there are many of these, and it's what i prefer) and then to guest rooms attached to private houses that get rented out. I've also been fortunate to stay many times with Bermudians in their homes, because many regattas there provide housing, and that is by far the best way to visit.

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- a US$15m (NZ$19m) event fee to the America's Cup Events Authority

- a US$25m (NZ$32m) underwrite to cover any sponsorship shortfall by ACEA.

- US$14m (NZ$18m) for site preparation and infrastructure for docks and America's Cup village

- US$11m (NZ$14m) operation expenses for the America's Cup village.

- US$12m (NZ$15m) to cover transport costs, security, emergency services, insurances and legal bills.

You may has well bank on paying out the 25 to underwrite / cover the sponsor shortfall. That is a us40m fee to ACEA.

 

I'd like to see the wording of that contract regarding the "sponsorship shortfall".

 

Does it mean they project $75 million, and if the only get $50 million, Bermuduh has to write a check for $25 million?

 

I'd also like to see what sort of stuff ACEA has to show up with. i.e. X number of teams ect.

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i've never been to an all-inclusive.., and would probably rather die than go to one..

^^ Try it before.

Waking up, leaving your room with no money, full choice of breakfast, restaurants on the beach, local Champagne at will, any coffe at any time of the day, sailing, drink in the pool, supper of your choice, show " con chicas", swim in the ocean at night, wife or girlfriend...

Well, we have to right to be spoiled from time to time. B)

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Seems like a huge govt commitment by Bermuda but they obviously figured it was worth that to them, or else would not have agreed it - competition or not.

 

Some of the potential benefits are roughly quantifiable but the biggest one is also the biggest unknown: the long term value of having Bermuda in the news, looking very cool.

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If Bermuda is in a tourism slump and it is a primary industry for them this could make a lot of sense, especially since SF is an automatic draw for tourism with visitors flocking to Pier 39 eating sour dough bread and visiting other attractions. Go there just about any time and you'll meet people from several countries. SF doesn't need any stinking tourists, they already have plenty.

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If Bermuda is in a tourism slump and it is a primary industry for them this could make a lot of sense, especially since SF is an automatic draw for tourism with visitors flocking to Pier 39 eating sour dough bread and visiting other attractions. Go there just about any time and you'll meet people from several countries. SF doesn't need any stinking tourists, they already have plenty.

Bermuda is in a tourism slump becuz the old stuffy people who like to wear starched underwear and long socks to the beach are a dying breed.

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If Bermuda is in a tourism slump and it is a primary industry for them this could make a lot of sense, especially since SF is an automatic draw for tourism with visitors flocking to Pier 39 eating sour dough bread and visiting other attractions. Go there just about any time and you'll meet people from several countries. SF doesn't need any stinking tourists, they already have plenty.

Bermuda is in a tourism slump becuz the old stuffy people who like to wear starched underwear and long socks to the beach are a dying breed.

 

 

 

 

If Bermuda is in a tourism slump and it is a primary industry for them this could make a lot of sense, especially since SF is an automatic draw for tourism with visitors flocking to Pier 39 eating sour dough bread and visiting other attractions. Go there just about any time and you'll meet people from several countries. SF doesn't need any stinking tourists, they already have plenty.

Bermuda is in a tourism slump becuz the old stuffy people who like to wear starched underwear and long socks to the beach are a dying breed.

 

 

Then it makes even more sense.

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Pigs would have to have done aerobatics over the bay before ANYONE in the Bay Area was going to cough up $77M to these arseholes, especially after the 17 teams promise that never had a chance.

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i've never been to an all-inclusive.., and would probably rather die than go to one..

^^ Try it before.

Waking up, leaving your room with no money, full choice of breakfast, restaurants on the beach, local Champagne at will, any coffe at any time of the day, sailing, drink in the pool, supper of your choice, show " con chicas", swim in the ocean at night, wife or girlfriend...

Well, we have to right to be spoiled from time to time. B)

Breakfast is usually the same thing day after day and is akin to country bufet...

Dinner is ether "by reservation" in cheezy so called steakhouses or seafood joints that are worse than red lobster, and per 10 days you only get 2 -3 shots at the exclusive ones. Otherwise it is back to country buffet.

Coffee - depends on where you are don't drink much but tolerable.

Supper = country buffet again but they have 3 country buffet's on property, so you can choose. By day 3 your bowels are so screwy you cannot enjoy the swim in the ocean or the sailing because you cannot be more than 20 ft from a toilet.

Drinks, well if you don't tip you usually don't get the free pours so you need to cary some $$, and forget about top shelf stuff besides in the bar on the wayyyyy interrior of the joint if they even have it.

Sailing, Get up at dawn and get your reservation before trekking down the beach to save your lawn chairs and a palappa on the beach. If you don't, you are waiting in line for an hour to sign up for the boat which happens to be a trashed out hobie Wave or the like, and they don't like you taking them into the surf zone.....:) and if you miss the good spots by the pool (which are gone by 9:00am)and the shade on the beach (gone by 9:15), you are banished to smokers corner or are enjoying the shade by the bathroom....

 

I allowed my wife to convince me to go to 2 of these damn things and the last one was supposed to be 5 star.. Nope. Just like the cruise ships but on land.

 

Oh yea, I forgot... If you do do the meal plan forget about going off site for a couple nights. You already paid for food and booz dummy so why would you go anywhere else. Plus the surrounding villages aren't always up to snuff and you are rolling the dice.

 

Now you may be talking about 10 star places that have michelin stars for all their restaurants, well then you my friend are in another tax bracket than I and/or have no kids. Not my experience, the carib is a bit more upscale than the dominican or mexico, and I have not had the pleasure of going to the Tortugas or Caymens so I cannot comment on that. All in all they were good trips, but you have to pay $$$$ to do anything out of the box and for a family, that gets expensive.

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So I grew up in Chicago and have east coast ties. I think that the Mega "Atlantis" type resorts foster this impression, Seems, from here, that the bigger hotels are extensions of the all inclusive type of cruise ship experience... Is that true? I will not set foot on a cruise ship unless it is in Alaska or going around the world. (maybe qe2) but I sure as heck don't want that experience on land..... Sounds like there are 2 different experiences one can have on the island...

 

Also,

To all the east coast guys thinking they can get cheap flights to watch the cup. Ummmmm I don't think so... Captive audience and I don't think AA is going to schedule a couple more planes per day.... They are goin for the euro segment and you will see prices jump a ton.

 

Just sayin

 

 

Firstly, somebody has to pay for the fun.., and I didn't hear you offering any money!

 

Second - Bermudians are pretty smart.., and they will be taking a long term view of the cost/benefit calculation. They have been trying for some time to reinvigorate their tourism business - especially the hotel-based part, because i think they have realized that the cruise ship passengers don't spend any money.

 

Bermuda has always been a popular honeymoon destination (I was conceived there!) for east coast people, but other than that, I think they mostly rely on a small group of repeat visitors.

 

The cup will showcase the island to perhaps millions of viewers who have never thought of going there.., and I'm pretty sure that after they see how spectacularly beautiful it is, many will be thinking of visiting.

 

Third - A lot of west coast people don't seem to "get" Bermuda... It's not really "exclusive" in the sense that you are thinking. Most hotels are very simple by the standards of modern tourism. Also, with a few exceptions, they are generally not all that expensive. The type of high-spending travelers that you are thinking of often skip Bermuda because the resorts mostly don't have the amenities of high-end resorts in the caribbean for example. For sure, Bermuda would like to attract these people, and some resorts are getting the investment needed to attract them, but quite a lot of the rooms in Bermuda are still in very simple small hotels and guest houses.

 

 

.

 

we have similar tastes - i've never been to an all-inclusive.., and would probably rather die than go to one..

 

i've never been on a cruise ship, and feel pretty much the same way about them - i'd rather die.

 

although i did cross the atlantic about 5-10 times on ocean liners in the early-mid 60's with my parents when i was a little kid. this was at the very end of the steamship era, and they liked to travel that way - i crossed on the France, The United States, The Queen Mary, the Leonardo da Vinci, and others you probably never heard of. it was cool, and it's too bad that mode of travel is gone.

 

anyway, there may be all inclusives on Bermuda, but i've never stayed at one, and I don't actually know of any.

 

It's not really that kind of place

 

in the bigger hotels, a lot of guests do eat many meals in the hotel dining room, in part because some of them are kind of a hike to town where the restaurants are.

 

I've stayed at the full range of places there - from the hamilton princess (not really my kind of place) to small simple family run-hotels (there are many of these, and it's what i prefer) and then to guest rooms attached to private houses that get rented out. I've also been fortunate to stay many times with Bermudians in their homes, because many regattas there provide housing, and that is by far the best way to visit.

 

Grotto Bay does that all-inclusive stuff. GF wanted to stay there after this years Bermuda Race. I'm quite glad that I talked her into spending the extra $$ for the Southampton Princess.

 

Bermuda is in a bit of tourism slump. Not an educated guess by any means, but a scooter tour around the island will show you where there once were big hotels. Now, land waiting to be developed. Seems like Bermuda has been focusing heavily on cruiseship trade.

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Seems like Bermuda has been focusing heavily on cruiseship trade.

 

which makes no sense.., because cruise ship people spend basically no money on the island.., and they ruin for the people who will spend money.

 

i said above, that Bermudians are smart - and they are - so it baffles me how they think that exchanging guests with money who stay in hotels, and go out for dinner.., for cruise ship passengers who maybe buy a t-shirt and a dark and stormy.., is a good deal.

 

i think the answer is that they think the two groups can happily coexist - and because the cruise ship people typically only get bussed to one or two beaches, you can avoid them on the beach.., but a lot of stores in hamilton that once catered to well heeled visitors now sell mostly t-shirts and cheesy souvenirs

 

i'm not sure where it stands.., but the next thing they, or at least some, want to do to ruin it is to allow casinos...

 

I've been there a lot - and i like it - but i've never been for a vacation.., only for sailing - Bermuda Race.., Race week, and some other stuff.,

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I'd like to see the wording of that contract regarding the "sponsorship shortfall".

 

Does it mean they project $75 million, and if the only get $50 million, Bermuduh has to write a check for $25 million?

 

I'd also like to see what sort of stuff ACEA has to show up with. i.e. X number of teams ect.

 

Too funny, our resident grump who is already telling us who may and may not make money off the Bermuda event, can't even figure out how the deal is structured.

 

It's not hard mate - every dollar the Bermudian organisers (or DC if he's really involved with them ;)) bring in in sponsorship is a dollar they don't have to pay ACEA later themselves.

 

Alles klar?

 

p.s. no more abusive personal mails thanks - you're a classy bunch out west

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Seems like Bermuda has been focusing heavily on cruiseship trade.

 

which makes no sense.., because cruise ship people spend basically no money on the island.., and they ruin for the people who will spend money.

 

i said above, that Bermudians are smart - and they are - so it baffles me how they think that exchanging guests with money who stay in hotels, and go out for dinner.., for cruise ship passengers who maybe buy a t-shirt and a dark and stormy.., is a good deal.

 

i think the answer is that they think the two groups can happily coexist - and because the cruise ship people typically only get bussed to one or two beaches, you can avoid them on the beach.., but a lot of stores in hamilton that once catered to well heeled visitors now sell mostly t-shirts and cheesy souvenirs

 

i'm not sure where it stands.., but the next thing they, or at least some, want to do to ruin it is to allow casinos...

 

I've been there a lot - and i like it - but i've never been for a vacation.., only for sailing - Bermuda Race.., Race week, and some other stuff.,

 

 

I'd imagine cruise ships pay ££££ for docking up.

 

I think you're both right and that's the problem. Cruise ship passengers probably only purchase the occaisional trinket. The ships probably pay some government entity cash to dock up and the vendors who operate the excursions make money as well. But overall cash spent on the island by a visitor is likely limited to Front Street duty free and the dockyards.

 

I've been to BDA numerous times as either a sailor or while visiting my ex-pat parents who lived in Bermuda for a professional stint. It's a great country and is fun to vacation at even when not sailing.

And you're right US7070 - they are smart. I just wouldn't give their goverment more credit than its due.

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I'd like to see the wording of that contract regarding the "sponsorship shortfall".

 

Does it mean they project $75 million, and if the only get $50 million, Bermuduh has to write a check for $25 million?

 

I'd also like to see what sort of stuff ACEA has to show up with. i.e. X number of teams ect.

 

Too funny, our resident grump who is already telling us who may and may not make money off the Bermuda event, can't even figure out how the deal is structured.

 

It's not hard mate - every dollar the Bermudian organisers (or DC if he's really involved with them ;)) bring in in sponsorship is a dollar they don't have to pay ACEA later themselves.

 

Alles klar?

 

p.s. no more abusive personal mails thanks - you're a classy bunch out west

 

OK...I'll say it in public. Fuck you.

 

And yes, I understand the basics of the deal. Can't be bothered to read the fine print, because no one here is going to ever know that.

 

One thing I do think is rather amusing, is this whole discussion about a qualifiers of some sort in Auckland.

 

Bermuda will get fucked on that. They haven't yet figured out the teams will probably spend more money in Auckland than in Bermuda, and it could be that only two challengers end up in Bermuda.

 

Of course, Coutt$ will do whatever he can to make sure ETNZ doesn't even make it to Bermuda.

 

Will be poetic justice for all concerned.

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Well Bermuda has always had cruise ships, and with their docking for three days, passengers spend more than they do in say the Caribbean, but way less than air arrivals. Bermuda's hoteliers allowed their product to become stale, and the island needs to work hard to update many of the hotels. The Hamilton Princess is in the midst of $100M renovation, the Rosemont Tucker's Point and Newstead Belmont Hills are both quite new and lovely. The Reefs has done a great job staying updated. New hotels are needed and hopefully the AC will lead to more construction, which seems to be happening, with a new Pink Beach and Ariel Sands, as well as the Ritz Carlton at Morgans Point..

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I'd like to see the wording of that contract regarding the "sponsorship shortfall".

 

Does it mean they project $75 million, and if the only get $50 million, Bermuduh has to write a check for $25 million?

 

I'd also like to see what sort of stuff ACEA has to show up with. i.e. X number of teams ect.

Too funny, our resident grump who is already telling us who may and may not make money off the Bermuda event, can't even figure out how the deal is structured.

 

It's not hard mate - every dollar the Bermudian organisers (or DC if he's really involved with them ;)) bring in in sponsorship is a dollar they don't have to pay ACEA later themselves.

 

Alles klar?

 

p.s. no more abusive personal mails thanks - you're a classy bunch out west

OK...I'll say it in public. Fuck you.

 

And yes, I understand the basics of the deal. Can't be bothered to read the fine print, because no one here is going to ever know that.

 

One thing I do think is rather amusing, is this whole discussion about a qualifiers of some sort in Auckland.

 

Bermuda will get fucked on that. They haven't yet figured out the teams will probably spend more money in Auckland than in Bermuda, and it could be that only two challengers end up in Bermuda.

 

Of course, Coutt$ will do whatever he can to make sure ETNZ doesn't even make it to Bermuda.

 

Will be poetic justice for all concerned.

Whew - it's exhausting keeping it all straight:

 

RC fucked SF.

RC fucked SD.

RC fucked the USA.

RC fucked Bermuda.

RC fucked NZ.

 

But RC has not fucked his protege: BA.

 

Who is BA fucking?

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I'd like to see the wording of that contract regarding the "sponsorship shortfall".

 

Does it mean they project $75 million, and if the only get $50 million, Bermuduh has to write a check for $25 million?

 

I'd also like to see what sort of stuff ACEA has to show up with. i.e. X number of teams ect.

 

Too funny, our resident grump who is already telling us who may and may not make money off the Bermuda event, can't even figure out how the deal is structured.

 

It's not hard mate - every dollar the Bermudian organisers (or DC if he's really involved with them ;)) bring in in sponsorship is a dollar they don't have to pay ACEA later themselves.

 

Alles klar?

 

p.s. no more abusive personal mails thanks - you're a classy bunch out west

 

OK...I'll say it in public. Fuck you.

 

And yes, I understand the basics of the deal. Can't be bothered to read the fine print, because no one here is going to ever know that.

 

One thing I do think is rather amusing, is this whole discussion about a qualifiers of some sort in Auckland.

 

Bermuda will get fucked on that. They haven't yet figured out the teams will probably spend more money in Auckland than in Bermuda, and it could be that only two challengers end up in Bermuda.

 

Of course, Coutt$ will do whatever he can to make sure ETNZ doesn't even make it to Bermuda.

 

Will be poetic justice for all concerned.

 

So not sure about the qualifiers in Auckland, but I did see an interview where RC said that all teams will be in Bermuda in 2017....

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I'd like to see the wording of that contract regarding the "sponsorship shortfall".

 

Does it mean they project $75 million, and if the only get $50 million, Bermuduh has to write a check for $25 million?

 

I'd also like to see what sort of stuff ACEA has to show up with. i.e. X number of teams ect.

 

Too funny, our resident grump who is already telling us who may and may not make money off the Bermuda event, can't even figure out how the deal is structured.

 

It's not hard mate - every dollar the Bermudian organisers (or DC if he's really involved with them ;)) bring in in sponsorship is a dollar they don't have to pay ACEA later themselves.

 

Alles klar?

 

p.s. no more abusive personal mails thanks - you're a classy bunch out west

 

OK...I'll say it in public. Fuck you.

 

And yes, I understand the basics of the deal. Can't be bothered to read the fine print, because no one here is going to ever know that.

 

One thing I do think is rather amusing, is this whole discussion about a qualifiers of some sort in Auckland.

 

Bermuda will get fucked on that. They haven't yet figured out the teams will probably spend more money in Auckland than in Bermuda, and it could be that only two challengers end up in Bermuda.

 

Of course, Coutt$ will do whatever he can to make sure ETNZ doesn't even make it to Bermuda.

 

Will be poetic justice for all concerned.

 

So not sure about the qualifiers in Auckland, but I did see an interview where RC said that all teams will be in Bermuda in 2017....

As I posted in the other thread where you made that statement...

 

No, I don't think you heard that. I think you heard him say all the teams would be in Bermuda. And they will be - in October 2015 for the ACWS. But I did not hear him say they will all be there in 2017.

 

 

http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=162403&p=4766630

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More on that AC trivia question

--

 

Sailors Courageous memories

 

News that Bermuda will host the 2017 Americas Cup sent Eldon Triminghams mind darting back 30 years to when he was part of the Courageous team that went to Perth to fight for the oldest trophy in sport.

http://mobile.royalgazette.com/article/20141210/NEWS/141219982

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From a piece about the ESS

--

Around May next year, Slingsby will relocate to Bermuda, as part of Team Oracle USA crew that will defend the America's Cup in 2017.

 

"Now it's been announced that it's in Bermuda we're going to relocate there as soon as we can and get cracking," Slingsby said.

 

The announcement of the venue last week has already affected this week's Extreme event, with Team New Zealand opting out so they can focus on their America's Cup campaign.

 

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2014/12/10/slingsby-man-all-boat-sizes

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The guys behind the extreme sailing series must be happy. AC comes in and runs right across their class and regatta's after they had methodically developed it over some years.

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All through the ACWS they used mark boats that were hauled around the world (at least Europe and US) with the rest of the circus. They were clipped in almost every event.

 

Here they are lined up in Venice.

 

http://www.panbo.com/ACWS_in_Venice_Garmanized_mark1_mark_boats_cPanbo.jpg

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yeah, right..!

--

Americas Cup: Hotels cooperate to prevent gouging

Hotels across the Island have come together as part of a coordinated effort to ensure accommodation demands for the 2017 Americas Cup are met.

http://mobile.royalgazette.com/article/20141211/BUSINESS/141219956

 

10,000 Free rooms ??

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at AC.com. edit: AC.bm apparently..

--

Jordy Walkers vision to bring the Americas Cup to Bermuda has been fulfilled.

 

In the 1980s, the late sailor laid the groundwork that ultimately led to Bermuda being awarded the 35th Americas Cup.

 

Through a collaboration with others, the past Royal Bermuda Yacht Club Commodore helped form the World Match Racing Association and introduce professional sailors to the Argo Group Gold Cup held annually in local waters.

 

Competing in World Match Racing Tour events such as the Gold Cup went a long way towards moulding the careers of accomplished sailors such as Sir Russell Coutts, of New Zealand, who is a five-times Americas Cup winner.

http://www.americascup.bm/walkers-legacy-hailed-coutts/

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yeah, right..!

--

Americas Cup: Hotels cooperate to prevent gouging

Hotels across the Island have come together as part of a coordinated effort to ensure accommodation demands for the 2017 Americas Cup are met.

http://mobile.royalgazette.com/article/20141211/BUSINESS/141219956

 

10,000 Free rooms ??

There aren't 10,000 hotel rooms on the entire island.

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I guess everybody recognize the brunette?

Hadn't they split - I vaguely recall because of BJs (oddly enough, an excess thereof, contrary to the norm)?

 

And still about (figurative) BJs: it's Non, rien de rien from the Salon Nautique - I don't understand why a guy with Franck Cammas' gold reputation lends himself to this squalid pantomime

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I guess everybody recognize the brunette?

Hadn't they split - I vaguely recall because of BJs (oddly enough, an excess thereof, contrary to the norm)?

 

And still about (figurative) BJs: it's Non, rien de rien from the Salon Nautique - I don't understand why a guy with Franck Cammas' gold reputation lends himself to this squalid pantomime

Squalid pantomime. Wow.

 

Listen to the crowds roar and "Bermuda Wins the Cup!"

 

It's AC35 - a Squalid Pantomime.

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I guess everybody recognize the brunette?

Hadn't they split - I vaguely recall because of BJs (oddly enough, an excess thereof, contrary to the norm)?

 

And still about (figurative) BJs: it's Non, rien de rien from the Salon Nautique - I don't understand why a guy with Franck Cammas' gold reputation lends himself to this squalid pantomime

Yep, seems that they are back. Money is a strong aphrodisiac.

Nothing from the Paris boat, not even a conference announced....

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What the America's Cup teams are saying about Bermuda as the venue for the 35th Match

 

14 Dec 2014

 

What the teams are saying about the announcement of Bermuda as the venue for the 2017 America’s Cup.

 

Jimmy Spithill, ORACLE TEAM USA: “It’s fantastic. I’ve spent a bit of time there and really enjoyed the racing, the people. We bring a whole family. It’s not just the athletes. It’s the shore team, the engineers, their families, their kids. The cool thing about Bermuda is, if you live in Bermuda, you are associated with the nautical theme, with the water. And that’s our life. So that integration of the whole America’s Cup community is going to be a very nice fit.”

 

Ben Ainslie, Ben Ainslie Racing: “We’re absolutely delighted. I’ve had some great experiences racing there with the Gold Cup on and off the water. It’s a great venue, so I’m looking forward to it.”

 

Nathan Outteridge, Artemis Racing: “Since the Cup ended last year we’ve kept a strong team together doing design and sailing in our AC45s. But now that we know the venue we can study the weather patterns for that place. Hopefully we’ll get there as much as we can to sail there in the May, June, July weather window to understand what will be secret to winning the America’s Cup. In every Cup there is one key thing that gets you over the line… So we’ll be focusing our efforts on understanding what the weather range is and working on designing a fast boat.”

 

Kevin Shoebridge, Emirates Team New Zealand: “Bermuda is a fantastic sailing venue. It’s an island with a huge maritime history and I think there will be engagement by all the Bermuda public to support the event, so I think that will be fantastic.”

 

Franck Cammas, Team France: “I’ve never been to Bermuda, but I hear it’s a good place to race and sail and it’s good for the show and the television. It’s not so far from Europe so it’s good for us and our sponsors to be able to see the race.”

 

Max Sirena, Luna Rossa Challenge: “It’s great news. Our team is very happy. We can focus on Bermuda now. It’s a great place to sail. It’s something new that should give us an opportunity to move forward in this new evolution of the America’s Cup. We’ll start to plan for the next couple of years now and we look forward to moving there as soon as we can.”

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What the America's Cup teams are saying about Bermuda as the venue for the 35th Match

 

14 Dec 2014

 

What the teams are saying about the announcement of Bermuda as the venue for the 2017 America’s Cup.

 

Jimmy Spithill, ORACLE TEAM USA: “It’s fantastic. I’ve spent a bit of time there and really enjoyed the racing, the people. We bring a whole family. It’s not just the athletes. It’s the shore team, the engineers, their families, their kids. The cool thing about Bermuda is, if you live in Bermuda, you are associated with the nautical theme, with the water. And that’s our life. So that integration of the whole America’s Cup community is going to be a very nice fit.”

 

Ben Ainslie, Ben Ainslie Racing: “We’re absolutely delighted. I’ve had some great experiences racing there with the Gold Cup on and off the water. It’s a great venue, so I’m looking forward to it.”

 

Nathan Outteridge, Artemis Racing: “Since the Cup ended last year we’ve kept a strong team together doing design and sailing in our AC45s. But now that we know the venue we can study the weather patterns for that place. Hopefully we’ll get there as much as we can to sail there in the May, June, July weather window to understand what will be secret to winning the America’s Cup. In every Cup there is one key thing that gets you over the line… So we’ll be focusing our efforts on understanding what the weather range is and working on designing a fast boat.”

 

Kevin Shoebridge, Emirates Team New Zealand: “Bermuda is a fantastic sailing venue. It’s an island with a huge maritime history and I think there will be engagement by all the Bermuda public to support the event, so I think that will be fantastic.”

 

Franck Cammas, Team France: “I’ve never been to Bermuda, but I hear it’s a good place to race and sail and it’s good for the show and the television. It’s not so far from Europe so it’s good for us and our sponsors to be able to see the race.”

 

Max Sirena, Luna Rossa Challenge: “It’s great news. Our team is very happy. We can focus on Bermuda now. It’s a great place to sail. It’s something new that should give us an opportunity to move forward in this new evolution of the America’s Cup. We’ll start to plan for the next couple of years now and we look forward to moving there as soon as we can.”

 

Or in other words..."this is where we are getting paid to sail, so sure, it's a lovely spot".

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What the America's Cup teams are saying about Bermuda as the venue for the 35th Match

 

14 Dec 2014

 

What the teams are saying about the announcement of Bermuda as the venue for the 2017 America’s Cup.

 

Jimmy Spithill, ORACLE TEAM USA: “It’s fantastic. I’ve spent a bit of time there and really enjoyed the racing, the people. We bring a whole family. It’s not just the athletes. It’s the shore team, the engineers, their families, their kids. The cool thing about Bermuda is, if you live in Bermuda, you are associated with the nautical theme, with the water. And that’s our life. So that integration of the whole America’s Cup community is going to be a very nice fit.”

 

Ben Ainslie, Ben Ainslie Racing: “We’re absolutely delighted. I’ve had some great experiences racing there with the Gold Cup on and off the water. It’s a great venue, so I’m looking forward to it.”

 

Nathan Outteridge, Artemis Racing: “Since the Cup ended last year we’ve kept a strong team together doing design and sailing in our AC45s. But now that we know the venue we can study the weather patterns for that place. Hopefully we’ll get there as much as we can to sail there in the May, June, July weather window to understand what will be secret to winning the America’s Cup. In every Cup there is one key thing that gets you over the line… So we’ll be focusing our efforts on understanding what the weather range is and working on designing a fast boat.”

 

Kevin Shoebridge, Emirates Team New Zealand: “Bermuda is a fantastic sailing venue. It’s an island with a huge maritime history and I think there will be engagement by all the Bermuda public to support the event, so I think that will be fantastic.”

 

Franck Cammas, Team France: “I’ve never been to Bermuda, but I hear it’s a good place to race and sail and it’s good for the show and the television. It’s not so far from Europe so it’s good for us and our sponsors to be able to see the race.”

 

Max Sirena, Luna Rossa Challenge: “It’s great news. Our team is very happy. We can focus on Bermuda now. It’s a great place to sail. It’s something new that should give us an opportunity to move forward in this new evolution of the America’s Cup. We’ll start to plan for the next couple of years now and we look forward to moving there as soon as we can.”

 

Or in other words..."this is where we are getting paid to sail, so sure, it's a lovely spot".

 

Did you notice who's name is glaringly absent?... our friend Mr. Barker!!

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It is dated December, 2013; It is supposed to be the smoking gun that Bermuda was the selection long ago, as if Bermuda never had any plans for development in the Morgan's Point/ Dockyard area before the cup.

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Peter Huston has possession of all the smoking guns..............just ask him to post and he will...........He is your direct line to Ehman he says and if he says he says and he knows and will share...........just ask.

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--

Day of drama for the crew of Courageous

By Colin Thompson

Sailing Correspondent

After scraping a shoal on the way to the Great Sound, the crew of Americas Cup Challenger Courageous must have figured the worst was behind them.

They were in for a rude awakening.

Having already encountered a brush with the Islands notorious reefs, Courageous eventful day continued when the American 12 Metre yacht collided with sparring partner Defender and Cleopatra, the Royal Bermuda Yacht Clubs race committee boat, while match racing in the Great Sound.

http://mobile.royalgazette.com/article/20141216/NEWS/141219791

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Nice view of the south basin of the Dockyard with the Great Sound beyond. One can imagine some of the bases on the quay below and the the area to the upper right of the image being filled in, inside the break water for the village and other bases.. Will be a great view from the top of the hill!

 

10417709_373368089498525_679948643585857

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at http://bernews.com/2014/12/americas-cup-bill-2014/

--

America’s Cup Bill: Vehicles, Exemptions & More
December 16, 2014 | 11 Comments

The America’s Cup legislation introduced in the House last Friday permits the America’s Cup Event Authority [ACEA] to import up to 80 motor vehicles up to limousine size and exempts ACEA from any fees payable under the Air Navigation Regulations 2012 in relation to helicopters and drones.

.....

The full America’s Cup Act 2014 — as tabled — follows below [PDF here]:

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i don't care how they chose it, or when they chose it

 

it's a good choice!

 

much better than SD

 

thank you to all who helped make it happen

There were lots of good reasons to choose Bermuda. So many - I've completely lost count.

 

I picked thirty million reasons - much too conservative. It would seem the true number more than double that.

 

The sad truth is that once the honeymoon is over - and Dennis flies home - there are bills to pay.

 

A big bill.

 

I like the island more after your excellent descriptions. Truly worth a visit - it feels like a relaxing good time. But how will AC35 help your favorite place?

 

I think SF missed an opportunity to improve its waterfront with AC34. Larry wanted to create a super yacht destination - but that sadly didn't resonate with the local pols. I don't know much about the economy of catering to the super rich - but it seems like good work if you can get it. SF might have succeeded in making itself a stop on the floating palace party tour - it might have worked here.

 

But beyond this - AC35 will be tough to monetize. SF was full of Kiwis during the final - yet SF registered scarcely a blip in overall tourist head count.

 

Few are the AC fans that would travel to see just any team race. More fans are likely to see their own team race. Oracle fans are unlikely to pack the stadium seating in Bermuda.

 

Best case - BAR makes the final.

 

Anybody else seems like slim pickins. One flight a day from Heathrow...

 

You might think that Bermuda should be a bigger draw than SF? I don't see it. Somehow Bermuda needs to build something beyond AC35.

 

The only legacy AC34 left behind are voters and politicians pointing out what a debacle the race was. It has already had a negative impact on an SF bid for the Olympics: Politicians deriding public money to support one-off sporting adventures. And SF spent so little.

 

Why did Bermuda pay so much?

 

They are truly not part of this country.

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Well money will go to refurbishing the part of the dockyard that needs it, including a new marina. These areas will be of great use after the event. As you said this can help to put Bermuda back on the world super yacht list of places to visit, stop off, replenish and contribute to the economy. Bermuda, unlike SF, needs to reestablish their place in the tourism world. For the last 20 years they have focused almost solely on building up their international business and reinsurance business, and done well with it, but they need to balance that out with a strong tourism sector. Already new hotels are receiving the financing that has been difficult, with multiple new or renovated properties to come on line before 2017. The island sorely needs these, so this upgrade is very welcome. It is places that have fallen a little behind that can benefit the most from an event like this. SF did not need it, so you did not see a big difference. It was nice, but somewhat of a side show in in a world famous city like that. In Bermuda it is the main event, and everyone who comes for the races will hopefully experience the best the island has and be persuaded to become frequent visitors. I don't think you west coasters realize how easy it is for Northeasterners to get to Bermuda. It is only a 1hr 45min flight from Boston or NYC. Bermuda needs to reconnect more completely with these markets, and the AC will help the island do that.

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I don't know about it being "my favorite place", but i like it.

 

as i think i said - i never go for vacation.., only for sailing - bermuda race and regattas

 

it's a little to "busy" for my taste to be a vacation spot

 

but, i've been there often enough that i'm pretty comfortable there

 

anyway, i doubt that they think they will break even on this event - it's more about getting exposure, and they are willing to pay for it.

 

will it be a good deal for them in the end?

 

i have no idea, and it doesn't matter to me.

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anyway, i doubt that they think they will break even on this event - it's more about getting exposure, and they are willing to pay for it.

 

will it be a good deal for them in the end?

 

i have no idea, and it doesn't matter to me.

+1

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I don't know about it being "my favorite place", but i like it.

 

as i think i said - i never go for vacation.., only for sailing - bermuda race and regattas

 

it's a little to "busy" for my taste to be a vacation spot

 

but, i've been there often enough that i'm pretty comfortable there

 

anyway, i doubt that they think they will break even on this event - it's more about getting exposure, and they are willing to pay for it.

 

will it be a good deal for them in the end?

 

i have no idea, and it doesn't matter to me.

 

30M really isn't that much to get major international exposure for a sleepy island that needs a major tourism boost. The question is can they really get out of it what they need to, and it's a question for the taxpayers, not us. If the Bermudians don't like it, they'll vote out the guy who made the deal, and be stuck in it anyway. Their island, their money.

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30M really isn't that much to get major international exposure for a sleepy island that needs a major tourism boost.

My guess too. They'll be on the map starting now, and for the next 30 months, increasingly so, reaching an almost crescendo by June 2017.

 

What does it cost to get Bermuda into so much newsprint, so much web space, intovso much television and video, into probably millions of peoples' perceptual maps as being a destination associated with memes like fun, water, wish-I-were-there, and even excitement? It would cost a much larger fortune, is my swag!

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Trying to understand why AC35 expected to be so much more successful than AC34.

 

I haven't a clue.

- minuscule local market

- venue not as recognized internationally (where in the Bahamas is Bermuda)?

- perhaps friendlier to the super yacht - perhaps

 

And if or when the challengers start dying off we may not be left with more teams. Let's face it - Bermuda hasn't helped FRA nor TNZ. Nor necessarily BAR either.

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Well money will go to refurbishing the part of the dockyard that needs it, including a new marina. These areas will be of great use after the event. As you said this can help to put Bermuda back on the world super yacht list of places to visit, stop off, replenish and contribute to the economy. Bermuda, unlike SF, needs to reestablish their place in the tourism world. For the last 20 years they have focused almost solely on building up their international business and reinsurance business, and done well with it, but they need to balance that out with a strong tourism sector. Already new hotels are receiving the financing that has been difficult, with multiple new or renovated properties to come on line before 2017. The island sorely needs these, so this upgrade is very welcome. It is places that have fallen a little behind that can benefit the most from an event like this. SF did not need it, so you did not see a big difference. It was nice, but somewhat of a side show in in a world famous city like that. In Bermuda it is the main event, and everyone who comes for the races will hopefully experience the best the island has and be persuaded to become frequent visitors. I don't think you west coasters realize how easy it is for Northeasterners to get to Bermuda. It is only a 1hr 45min flight from Boston or NYC. Bermuda needs to reconnect more completely with these markets, and the AC will help the island do that.

Think I can appreciate that. But:

- American non-sailors not likely to visit just for the Cup. AFAIK the majority of cup tourists in SF were from NZ. Americans were there - but mostly just local.

- It would be great if the Swedish, Italians, and British get behind their teams and show up. But Bermuda as a destination currently not likely part of any European itinerary.

 

If all this is to attract the American sailing tourist - they don't exist!

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There could be east coasters making vacation decisions who look at Bermuda in 2017 and say 'hey, now there's a good excuse to go check it out.' It is only 90 mins from megatropolises NY and Boston, to me that'd be a big factor too.

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Their island - ACRM's money.

 

Believe your 30M number low?

 

I think value of cash + prizes is probably closer to triple that, depending on who counts the prizes

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30M really isn't that much to get major international exposure for a sleepy island that needs a major tourism boost.

My guess too. They'll be on the map starting now, and for the next 30 months, increasingly so, reaching an almost crescendo by June 2017.

 

What does it cost to get Bermuda into so much newsprint, so much web space, intovso much television and video, into probably millions of peoples' perceptual maps as being a destination associated with memes like fun, water, wish-I-were-there, and even excitement? It would cost a much larger fortune, is my swag!

 

The main problem is that no one will remember it after 12 months of venue shopping some time in 2018. San Fran's association is fading fast, even with all those bridge background shots floating around. Bermuda won't be happy if they are back to 6,000 partially occupied rooms in 2020.

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And that's why the suggestion that, if Bermuda somehow succeeds where others have not, they could go after another Cup Defense.

 

People say it means relatively more to B than it would have meant to SF or SD, and it's probably true.

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I'm actually a big believer that maritime events - if they are looking for big numbers - should generally be held in smaller venues with significant maritime history - i.e. seaward facing cities - rather than in metropolises (metropoli?). The tough part of the equation is that the venue must be relatively easy to access for a large portion of the population...something that Bermuda fails at miserably. "An hour and a half on United" is not easy for a large portion of the population.

 

But it is very easy for a small but very rich portion of the population. And it's sure easy for me - a ton easier than cold, foggy San Fran 4 hours away.

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I thought Yacht magazine already reported that the figure was 62.3 million Euros that Bermuda coughed up to get the Cup. I'll have to look again. I thought it was on their site as well (yacht.de).

 

Frede

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