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PaulinVictoria

Team Vestas grounded

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Article from German Sailing Magazine "Yacht"

 

http://www.yacht.de/sport/volvo_ocean_race/team-vestas-havariert-auf-riff/a94183.html

 

Please use Google for Translation.

Thanks for finding that link. The daylight pic confused me until I saw it was of the testing, but that was sure quick work by the reporter.

 

So sorry for Chris N and his team.

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I hope they plan to return, and that they will retain ownership. Didn't know there are legal risks almost as infuriating.

In the far more common case where concern for human safety has dictated the abandonment of the vessel, rights of ownership remain.

 

http://www.orcv.org.au/index.php/docman-link/racing/vanuatu/1759-1174872719-salvage-issues-salvage/file

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Volvo own the boats this time don't they?

 

Zoom problem perhaps? Ie not zoomed in enough to see it?

 

That's what I'm afraid of. How stupid would that be? I find that really annoying about nav screens. Even Google Earth gives you a visual headsup.

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I've always thought it would be easy to make the zoom mistake even on the stuff I sail, let alone doing nav @ 25-35 knots. Should be a pin on anything below 10m to give you a heads up to look closer.

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This incident is not the result of raging weather, poor visibility and an on the edge boatspeed. Conditons were benign. The half moon was up from 06:30 to 19:30 UTC local. 4 hours later the fleet was experiencing +-15kn true wind speed, probably similar at impact. Cloud cover doesn't seem to be an issue. St. Brandon Island is very low lying and only has 60 people, so probably no loom. This is not a case of low lying reefs miles offshore being struck before the island is raised; they went directly into the windward shore. It is a big charted island (since the 1800s), although its GPS coords could well be a mile or two mile off in that remote part of the world.

Curious the boats on the other side of the island executed dodging maneuvers because of much smaller islets. Implies visibility wasn't that bad and the electro charts aren't that good.
13773_10204055874810628_2083072515270507

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Sounds like they might be able to get back in the race for the next leg. Just a little putty and paint...

 

B&G claims (or did claim) they provided the entire ball of wax. Hard to believe the plotter won't shade at a depth setting or sound an alarm. Of course someone has to turn it on...

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Going to wait and hear the story, HTFU those who condemn so fast and I suppose have never been aground themselves. There are those who have been and those who will be if you go to sea. Just glad everyone is safe and looking to more details.

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This is really crazy in the 21 century. What navigation program are these guys using?

That should Not matter at all!!!! One navigates always with twpo or three systems paralle, i.E computer than independant GPS and then loggingingnand puting down positions with a Pen in a REAL Chart....u do This for a reason....

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Going to wait and hear the story, HTFU those who condemn so fast and I suppose have never been aground themselves. There are those who have been and those who will be if you go to sea. Just glad everyone is safe and looking to more details.

Sorry but if they Hit an Island at full speed....I cqn Not really think of a good excuse....

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Fucking pros! Too stupid to do the very basics - skipper/watchcaptain and navigator should be sent back to school

Au contraire'! Apparent moon angle, boat heading, sea state, visibility, etc. can make it very hard for a night watch to detect shallow water before it's too late. Oddly, a calmer sea state is not your friend, less surf to glisten in the moonlight. Don't blame the watch for a grounding until all the cards are on the table. And the on deck guys were racing balls to the wall, probably more concerned about trim, angle and boatspeed than the possibility of hitting a f*cking island in the next few moments.

 

OTOH, whut was the downstairs electro navigator thinking? The Racetracker is right on the money concerning where the boat grounded. Surely his screen showed the same as they approached, or his on board electro charts were showing a bad location several miles west for the island, or the system was down, or, the numbnuts was too zoomed out.

 

Based on their course, they were racing as if the island didn't exist.

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Is this Vor a joke? I find it hard to believe a team could run aground in this day and age. At least all the boats didn't run aground at the same time.

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The fact that they were racing is not an excuse, part of racing is to avoid hitting objects in your way. This seems like a well charted hazard.

 

That said, nighttime sailing can be disorienting. .

 

The story is going to be super interesting. Hopefully they all get off safely and can get the boat salvaged, then we get the lowdown. I've got to believe the navigator was sleeping and whoever was on navigation watch wasn't paying attention. Depth? Nothing triggered a thought?

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No shit Zen. I'll wait to find out what really happened before I throw the crew under the bus. A bunch of newbie cock holsters passing judgment before the facts. Try taking your fucking dinghy offshore once before you judge.

 

Fucking tools.

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I feel so badly for those guys. Just gutted for a group that worked hard to get this far.

 

I looked on Expedition. The shoal is marked on C Map chart that I am using, but there are absolutely no depth details. It shows the water depths going from 13000+ feet up to 150, another at 66, another at 187 and another at 269, but just a field of white and no other depth labels.

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Fucking wannalikes sailors here! Facts are they fucked up badly! There is no excuse for the nav man - everybody who does Not See This - does Not know ocean racing

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I feel so badly for those guys. Just gutted for a group that worked hard to get this far.

 

I looked on Expedition. The shoal is marked on C Map chart that I am using, but there are absolutely no depth details. It shows the water depths going from 13000+ feet up to 150, another at 66, another at 187 and another at 269, but just a field of white and no other depth labels.

This is the Navonics chart chip detail - certainly well more than enough to know you needed to navigate around it.

 

post-8534-0-17620800-1417305754_thumb.jpg

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Volvo own the boats this time don't they?

 

Zoom problem perhaps? Ie not zoomed in enough to see it?

 

The boats are own by the primary sponsor or syndicate. VOR has first rights to re-purchase.

 

As for the rest of you lot whining like the visiting sailors from a 2nd rate sailing club… shaddup! They are doing what you don't have the balls to try.

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so, let me ask the obvious. Is there anything else out there to be avoided before heading in towards the Straights? Meaning - other low lying, mostly unknown islands most of us have never heard of? Just curious

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I ran aground once, my wife was at the helm while I was changing my babies diapers. It was a great story, we didn't sink but the splash zone epoxy can in handy! These guys must be bumming hard, the only guy on this boat I would want to be is the cook or a grinder...

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I've sailed around the world and many times encountered reefs,islands,lightnouses that were miles from the charted position.Many charts have unusual datums and cannot be corrected to WGS 84. Its too easy to say you should be navigating 'manually' as well. Even that wont necessarilly save your ass in the middle of nowhere.

I think unless you,ve been there and done it you need to shut the fuck up till the story comes out.

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I feel so badly for those guys. Just gutted for a group that worked hard to get this far.

 

I looked on Expedition. The shoal is marked on C Map chart that I am using, but there are absolutely no depth details. It shows the water depths going from 13000+ feet up to 150, another at 66, another at 187 and another at 269, but just a field of white and no other depth labels.

+1

 

I'm sure it depends on the program and all but on my version you need to zoom in a bit before the area is much more than a 200m depth contour. Two boats nearly went up on it.

 

Heartbreaking at the least.

 

It's pretty obvious that everyone involved will be crushed. I don't think anyone needs to be informed that they made a mistake.

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^^

 

Just a hard lesson . . . . with e-charts you MUST zoom in and look all along an ocean route to identify the hard bits, and put pins on them so they are obvious later at lower zoom even when you are tired and/or seasick at 2am. That is simply an essential basic safety practice for e-chart navigating.

 

It's also pretty basic navigation practice to give remote reefs like this a minimum of 2nm clearance (at least at night). The Clipper race had to learn that hard lesson in 2010 when Cork hit Gosong Mampango.

 

And personally I think that on a boat like this, you should also have a plotter following along at relatively high zoom, say 12nm, even if the main computer is zoomed out for weather routing for showing things you might hit (AIS targets and reefs and buoy's).

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I love that all you newbs know all.

 

 

No shit Zen. I'll wait to find out what really happened before I throw the crew under the bus. A bunch of newbie cock holsters passing judgment before the facts. Try taking your fucking dinghy offshore once before you judge.

 

Fucking tools.

 

 

I've sailed around the world and many times encountered reefs,islands,lightnouses that were miles from the charted position.Many charts have unusual datums and cannot be corrected to WGS 84. Its too easy to say you should be navigating 'manually' as well. Even that wont necessarilly save your ass in the middle of nowhere.

I think unless you,ve been there and done it you need to shut the fuck up till the story comes out.

.

 

......goodonya Wombat ...it's good to see not all recent joiners are falling over their self righteousness :mellow:;)

 

 

........those that condemn are likely the next ones aground,,,and likely will cry and point their fingers the most. <_<

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As the speculation is that it was some kind of software assisted crash, I'm wondering if nav software should be changed so that if any plotted leg has a closest approach to unsafe waters of less than some limit, then an explicit way point is required or else the software will not accept the leg. The advise often given is to zoom in and look along the entire route.... isn't that kind of thing exactly what computers are good for and what tired navigators are bad at?

 

But then, the flip side is that the more computers do, the less the humans are involved.... it is a tough one.

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The tropical depression (TD) may have been a Total Distraction. Perhaps weather overlays obscured the reef, or the level of zoom needed to monitor the TD hid the reef from view. All conjecture. It happened and now must be dealt with. First order of business is saving the sailors, then if possible, the boat. I'm sure there will be inquiries as to why it happened later. And for all you newbies, fuck off and show us some tits.

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Navy guy here. One huge error that nearly every racer I've been to sea with makes is to use the depth sounder as if it can be a "countdown timer" to "give warning" that it's time to tack away (or even worse jibe the lee shore). While there certainly are some places in which that's appropriate, that's def. not how I would approach it.

 

The depth below keel (plus your draft) should roughly match with what you expect on the chart. THAT'S ALL YOU CAN EXPECT. Now, you could use being on a depth contour as one LOP for a fix. But,. generally speaking, you should be using that sounding as a piece of data to confirm that the position your magic box put you on is reasonable. Of course, you need to add/subtract the tide from MLLW (on most charts), if significant.

 

I have no idea if these guys were doing the "countdown timer" thing, if they had any idea they were even near that shoal, or what...but all this GPS whizbangery leads way too many people to the conclusion that they can be confident in their position because their GPS says so. Be skeptical!

 

I'm sick to my stomach for these guys, and hope they make it out safely.

 

*** One speculative thought...maybe they were using WGS-84 Datum on the GPS unit, but a diff. datum on their charts. That part of the world has some odd survey data sometimes.

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[edit: lots of guys typing. More or less responding to Estar wth this thought.]

 

Yes. But failing to scan for bits that don't show at planning resolutions is a common error. V isn't the first boat lost as a result. Looks like two professional navigators did it just now.

 

FWIW, my chart doesn't have any soundings out to the east so the usual automatic warnings might not have gone off either.

 

I'm not arguing that there's a question about responsibility. I'm not sure that'd be very productive. Understanding what could have gone wrong and hopefully at some point what really did go wrong seems worthwhile though.

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As the speculation is that it was some kind of software assisted crash, I'm wondering if nav software should be changed so that if any plotted leg has a closest approach to unsafe waters of less than some limit, then an explicit way point is required or else the software will not accept the leg. The advise often given is to zoom in and look along the entire route.... isn't that kind of thing exactly what computers are good for and what tired navigators are bad at?

 

But then, the flip side is that the more computers do, the less the humans are involved.... it is a tough one.

 

That should be left up to the Navigator and the Skipper. The software certainly should provide the capability, but having been around constantly beeping nav shit for years alarming on things that simply don't matter is what the companies will default to in order to avoid lawsuits, which leads to ignoring alarms, which masks when you have a truly jacked situation coming up.

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No shit Zen. I'll wait to find out what really happened before I throw the crew under the bus. A bunch of newbie cock holsters passing judgment before the facts. Try taking your fucking dinghy offshore once before you judge.

 

Fucking tools.

I was hoping it was an issue with charts being dozens of miles out, but even Google Earth has the coords spot on. My $100 second hand Garmin handheld shows the damn island.

 

It sniffs like the Aegean, just plain human error.

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BTW, the note on my (BA 1941) chart says it must be adjusted .18 minutes north and .42 minutes west to agree with WGS84.

 

And the Cargados shoals detail is "This plan is derived from a Britsh survey dated 1846 at a scale of

1:121,00".

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Hmmm I wonder if the electronic charts were based on the British Admiralty charts,

 

If so they are relying on soundings made by leadline and positions calculated by sextant and chronometer in 1846.

 

In which case 5 mile errors are commonplace and 20 feet of new coral is not unknown.

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Hmmm I wonder if the electronic charts were based on the British Admiralty charts,

 

If so they are relying on soundings made by leadline and positions calculated by sextant and chronometer in 1846.

 

In which case 5 mile errors are commonplace and 20 feet of new coral is not unknown.

According to the chart note a Lt who took a small boat over the reef from the west side because the area was unapproachable from the east. So, not ideal for survey work.

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As many have said, your GPS shows where you are to a few meters tolerance and shows the world around you where it was last plotted by whoever surveyed it. The chart off my island in Nova Scotia has 10 areas in the chart showing the different surveys used from the last 250 years to make what looks like a single very modern chart.

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Some of you may remember that a couple of Clipper Races ago, I think in the Philippines they put one up on a reef that was 1 mile west/east of the charted position. The electronic chart (don't forget the start up screen "This is only an aid to navigation" warning) didn't have the auto-correction to WGS84 Datum BUT the paper chart did have the warning in the corner.

 

One reason why my fully tricked electic boat still carries a full set of charts, another reason being a bucket of water in the wrong place and they're all useless.

 

I don't know if the Volvo boats even have paper charts on them as everyone seems to depend on the 'infallability' of modern electronics but remember the old computing saying "garbage in - garbage out".

 

The NGIA 'East Africa and the South Indian Ocean' Pilot states that "They have been reported to lie about 3 miles further to the SW than charted". Also understandable the other VO65 is waiting behind the reef as the pilot reports that the east side of the shoals are dangerous.

 

If you shift Vestas course 3 miles SW they may well have missed the shoals altogether, still not much of an offing but a miss.

 

And Newbies - there are some on these forums who have no doubt done more miles going backwards than you've done going forwards.

 

ateam - Thank goodness you aren't a homicide detective but why let facts get in the way of a good shout.

 

There are a number of good reasons how this happened, and yes, an equal number of not so good reasons but lets wait to find out the story first.

 

The good thing is no injuries and also good to see the Alvi boys did the right thing under both the RRS and more importantly the ColRegs.

 

SS

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Is this Vor a joke? I find it hard to believe a team could run aground in this day and age. At least all the boats didn't run aground at the same time.

 

It happened before, not to long ago:

 

wloak3.jpg

 

WetHog :ph34r:

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I'm saddened to read about Vestas' grounding and glad the crew is ok. I hope they can get the boat off the reef at least mostly in in one piece.

 

It's interesting that the satellite imagery and GPS track data seem to agree perfectly but many of you are speculating that the charts may be way off. Pardon my ignorance, but are shoreline locations checked against satellite imagery when making modern charts? Also, does anyone have the ability to plot the charted location of this atoll against Vestas' GPS location?

 

It seems like this sort of speculation could be quickly resolved. The GPS location plotted on Google Earth looks to be right on, so either the charts are off or they aren't.

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:) It doesn't really matter what Google Earth et al say if it all relates back to a Royal Navy Lt in 1846 trying to get an accurate sextant reading in an open boat having been rowed across the reef from the west becasue the seaward appraoch was too dangerous because of the swell. Then even a slight delay in signalling between the open boat and the timekeeper on the mother ship and it is easy tohave errors of many miles. Those are position inaccuracies that are likely still the reference to this day because it is not commercially viable to go out and survey anything more accurate or up to date.

 

I have taken sextant readings on a Royal Navy warship IN CALM WEATHER and it is not always the simplest of things.

 

It (potentially) doesn't really matter, in this instance, that GPS is typically 2m accurate.

 

If your GPS tells you that you will miss the middle of an island 3 miles off your track and the data is 3 miles out - you will hit it slap bang in the middle - give or take 2m.

 

Still nothing to beat the Mk 1 eyeball and they only work half the time (think about it) - this did happen in the dark I understand and that side of the reef is very steep too according to both the chart and the pilot.

 

SS

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Is this Vor a joke? I find it hard to believe a team could run aground in this day and age. At least all the boats didn't run aground at the same time.

 

It happened before, not to long ago:

 

wloak3.jpg

 

WetHog :ph34r:

 

Mapfree crew would recognize that photo.

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Is this Vor a joke? I find it hard to believe a team could run aground in this day and age. At least all the boats didn't run aground at the same time.

 

It happened before, not to long ago:

 

wloak3.jpg

 

WetHog :ph34r:

 

Mapfree crew would recognize that photo.

i'm guessing there are a couple of Brunel crew who would too. All that said, it didn't prevent Bouwe or SiFi from getting another ride...

 

here's Alvimedica on the line with VEstas:

 

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No getting around this is horrible and tragic. Also no getting around it was avoidable human error. No legitimate excuse and I'm sure the captain and navigator know that and will be the first to say that. The exact mechanism of failure and/or who specifically is at fault should wait official inquiry.

 

Thank God no one was hurt or killed. It is only a yacht.

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No shit Zen. I'll wait to find out what really happened before I throw the crew under the bus. A bunch of newbie cock holsters passing judgment before the facts. Try taking your fucking dinghy offshore once before you judge.

 

Fucking tools.

 

I actually think the surprise probably is more from those of us who have been offshore for longer ocean passages. For many of us, the planning side of a passage (a review of planned routes, danger bearings, flipping through paper charts, keeping a running plot on paper) is actually a much bigger part of things when doing offshore night sailing then when day sailing or weekending in familiar waters. Are many of us sissier than these guys? No question - lifejackets, jacklines etc etc are perhaps more common with us tools and "cock holsters". But ocean experience tends to make you a tiny bit paranoid, especially if squally / night / shorthanded on deck etc. .

 

 

After they are off safe I'm looking forward to hearing the story.

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.

.....all those topnotch sailors hit almost head-on in 20kn........and Rimasidiotus just drifts.on.by.

 

 

.........life's not fair! :mellow::(

That's what they get for hoisting their sails. 1.2 kts or bust.

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This screen shot does suggest the charts they had were 'accurate enough' - (I have boxed in red Vestas's SART position):

 

post-8534-0-61656400-1417316301_thumb.jpg

 

Note: this is Adriana running - is probably a C-Map max wide vector chart

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This screen shot does suggest the charts they had were 'accurate enough' - (I have boxed in red Vestas's SART position):

 

attachicon.gifaground.jpg

 

Note: this is Adriana running - is probably a C-Map max wide vector chart

 

Actually, it is Expedition, not adrena

 

Yes, they are C-Map MAX charts.

 

It is interesting to look at. Will has been very busy with dividers measuring distances everywhere.

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Glad everyone is ok. My brother and I can navigate the Maine Coast, half in the bag, in the dark with fog. Just a tragedy to think about a boat that beautiful running aground. Did they....use the reef as a way-point?? Turkeys!

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Glad everyone is ok. My brother and I can navigate the Maine Coast, half in the bag, in the dark with fog. Just a tragedy to think about a boat that beautiful running aground. Did they....use the reef as a way-point?? Turkeys!

So, all we learn from this post is to be more careful whenever you and your brother have left the dock. Thanks for the heads up.

 

Are you related to Deep C? Just trolling for amusement?

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Glad everyone is ok. My brother and I can navigate the Maine Coast, half in the bag, in the dark with fog. Just a tragedy to think about a boat that beautiful running aground. Did they....use the reef as a way-point?? Turkeys!

So, all we learn from this post is to be more careful whenever you and your brother have left the dock. Thanks for the heads up.

 

Are you related to Deep C? Just trolling for amusement?

Haha. no not related to Deep C that I know of.

 

Trolling indeed, however I am fascinated by the caliber (ahem) of this race and have a genuine interest in these boats and the above deck technology - maybe they don't use way-points, I don't know? At any rate, what a shame...

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Actually, it is Expedition, not adrena

 

Yes, they are C-Map MAX charts.

Interesting. So, you probably know . . . . how easy is it for these islands to be obscured on the screen either by being zoomed out or by having routing info up?

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Here is the roundup on this from the rest of the fleet:

 

http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/news/8084_Grounded.html

 

You can see how several of the boats are talking about the zoom factor with the charts:

 

“We are offshore in the middle of nowhere, and on the chart, if you don’t go on the maximum zoom you can’t see anything.”

 

Whether there is implication there or not, I don't know. But it's really hard to comprehend this from a pro like Wouter Verbraak.

 

If you recall, this was apparently the same problem with the guys that sailed into Coronado Island.

 

Wow.

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It's one thing not to see an island dead smack in the middle of your route but not to know about it and every other island ahead of time is a head scratcher. Even the local PHRH skippers meetings discuss (ad nauseum) the hazards of the course. Seems like the teams simply didn't know about it until they were almost on top of it.

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Here is the roundup on this from the rest of the fleet:

 

http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/news/8084_Grounded.html

 

“There are shallow spots, and plenty 200m deeper - I’m not surprised you can miss them,” he adds.

 

“When I was looking at the navigation a few days ago, checking these things, it took a long time for me to find them.”

 

Well, there's one possible workaround for that problem...

 

It's commonly known as a 'paper chart'...

 

The Cargados Carajos archipelago is indicated on the freakin' 12 inch GLOBE I have sitting on my desk, fer chrissake...

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Here is the roundup on this from the rest of the fleet:

 

http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/news/8084_Grounded.html

 

>“There are shallow spots, and plenty 200m deeper - I’m not surprised you can miss them,” he adds.

 

“When I was looking at the navigation a few days ago, checking these things, it took a long time for me to find them.”

 

Well, there's one possible workaround for that problem...

 

It's commonly known as a 'paper chart'...

 

The Cargados Carajos archipelago is indicated on the freakin' 12 inch GLOBE I have sitting on my desk, fer chrissake...

 

 

Heh-heh. I think you're talking about "Team Sextant".

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"Newb" doesn't (always) mean ignorant. Might just mean they dont rant so much as others. And the website's called Anarchy, so go with what floats your boat, but tits are expected!

 

Anyone who uses decreasing depth as a guide in any coral seas is a total fucktard. You can step off the bow onto the hard whilst the stern floats over 10s of metres. Gives you zero notice.

 

Would love to know what state the keel's in. Ie: rudders are gone? Did they try evasion and spin the tail into the reef, or jackrabbit over their keel to totally ground out?

 

Fwiw, I also call "muppets!" on the navs' (in)abilities here.

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I did a 3 on 3 off (no autohelm) and we were also undermanned. At night in a non race situation I got us in closer to land than I would have liked following a windshift. It can take a bit to monkey with a chartplotter to really see where you are off, if you are focused on sailing at night it can be almost hypnotic. I realize why I like it though - you tend to go with people who don't call you a tool and cock holster all the time (see above comments from NACRADUDE) - so usually a fun time as long as everyone is getting enough sleep.

 

That can be actually kind of an issue - people get stupid (and sometimes grumpy) when tired and not everyone sleeps great on a boat. I always sleep well as crew, but rarely as skipper and have been on boats with folks who struggled with this - no fun for them or anyone!

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Look at this barely zoomed in Google Earth Image of most of the western indian ocean. Because it shows the sea floor, you immediately see that the entire area from Mauritius to the Seychelles looks pretty shallow and is probably worth closer inspection. The atoll in question even shows up at this magnification as a yellow dot. If this incident turns out to have been caused by an error in reading the chart computers because the reef only showed up at high magnification and there was no low suggestion of shallow waters when zoomed out, this may well become another classic case of bad software design leading to serious consequences and even the risk of death. These kinds of incidents must always be learned from and acted upon to make better safer systems. I'm glad everyone is safe this time.

 

Westerin%20Indian%20Ocean.jpg

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I don't have the charts installed here, but it is quite easy for individual rocks. This is why many of us like the raster Bsb charting. This is somewhat bigger though.

 

That said and without knowing any details of the event, it might be more related to sailing these boats with only 8 people. We sailed the Whitbread 60s with 11 and then 12, which was two watches of 5 and a skipper and navigator floating.

 

We did a Transpac with 8 on the 52, which was 4 x2 on rotating watches and were under-manned. So navigation becomes less of a dedicated role.

 

The Volvo boats will be a lot more boat than a 52 and the race is more demanding that the Transpac, so ...

It is a very important point.

 

Knuts drive to make the event cheaper by reducing the head count may have just come back to bite him in the Arse.

 

See on board video from ADOR recently, Sifi is up trimming. Explain that.

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Here is the roundup on this from the rest of the fleet:

 

http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/news/8084_Grounded.html

 

 

="ipsBlockquote">

>“There are shallow spots, and plenty 200m deeper - I’m not surprised you can miss them,” he adds.

 

“When I was looking at the navigation a few days ago, checking these things, it took a long time for me to find them.&rdqu

o;

Well, there's one possible workaround for that problem...

 

It's commonly known as a 'paper chart'...

 

The Cargados Carajos archipelago is indicated on the freakin' 12 inch GLOBE I have sitting on my desk, fer chrissake...

 

Heh-heh. I think you're talking about "Team Sextant".

 

Whatever... :-)

 

However, even a quick glance at the British Admiralty chart catalogue Index map would have indicated the presence of those islands...

 

http://mdnautical.com/img/pdf/H.pdf

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Here is the roundup on this from the rest of the fleet:

 

http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/news/8084_Grounded.html

 

 

="ipsBlockquote">

>“There are shallow spots, and plenty 200m deeper - I’m not surprised you can miss them,” he adds.

 

“When I was looking at the navigation a few days ago, checking these things, it took a long time for me to find them.&rdqu

o;

Well, there's one possible workaround for that problem...

 

It's commonly known as a 'paper chart'...

 

The Cargados Carajos archipelago is indicated on the freakin' 12 inch GLOBE I have sitting on my desk, fer chrissake...

 

Heh-heh. I think you're talking about "Team Sextant".

 

Whatever... :-)

 

However, even a quick glance at the British Admiralty chart catalogue Index map would have indicated the presence of those islands...

 

http://mdnautical.com/img/pdf/H.pdf

 

I'm just giving you a hard time. I'm scratching my head on this one too. A rock is one thing. A sub-continent is another.

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I don't have the charts installed here, but it is quite easy for individual rocks. This is why many of us like the raster Bsb charting. This is somewhat bigger though.

 

That said and without knowing any details of the event, it might be more related to sailing these boats with only 8 people. We sailed the Whitbread 60s with 11 and then 12, which was two watches of 5 and a skipper and navigator floating.

 

We did a Transpac with 8 on the 52, which was 4 x2 on rotating watches and were under-manned. So navigation becomes less of a dedicated role.

 

The Volvo boats will be a lot more boat than a 52 and the race is more demanding that the Transpac, so ...

It is a very important point.

 

Knuts drive to make the event cheaper by reducing the head count may have just come back to bite him in the Arse.

 

See on board video from ADOR recently, Sifi is up trimming. Explain that.

I believe SiFi drives, trims and rides the laptop.

The latest Alvimedica video also interviews Will while trimming too.

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