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PaulinVictoria

Team Vestas grounded

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I get the feeling that the material that gets published will be a story of shipwreck, survival and social responsibility in cleaning up. That's what will sell.

 

It will be interesting to see if the crew ever afford us an analysis of the events leading up to grounding. I doubt we will get much, although as sailors, this could be the most useful information to us.

 

I think many of you people have been so poisoned by the AC that you think every sailing problem will be hidden by organizers.

 

Knowing the team and the event's attitude, I'm quite confident that we will get every piece of info available. If not from Wouter's mouth himself, than from Brian. If not from Brian, then Nico. If not Nico, then Coxy, if not Coxy, than Knut.

 

This is far too big a tragedy to waste on trying to save someone's rep.

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it's a tragedy avoided actually

 

by luck or otherwise

 

It's actually a perfect tragedy, which is a dramatic form based on human suffering. Lots of suffering here from a solid cast of characters; that's why I say it won't be 'wasted'; VOR and hopefully Vestas will use it to tell a great story and grow their fan bases. They will not pretend it didn't happen or hide anything.

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Human mistakes, adversity, suffering, courage, bravery, sacrifice, rebirth....

 

I have read more flimsy plots

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Everybody is guessing that this is a zoom issue with the electronic charts, and it may well be, but it could also be a problem with the Wx and other tactical overlays obscuring the actual chart.

 

The zoom issue is very real and I have been pointing this out for a couple of years now. Some software/plotters/chart packagers do it better than others some are particularly bad (N********ics in my experience is one).

 

I run MaxSea and never put overlays onto the "Navigation" tab, but keep them in the planning tab, once done with something in the planning screen I switch back to Nav as a habit, but I do look outside and use the RADAR as a habit too.

 

Waiting to see what they say is the actual reason, it may well be that all of us speculators have it all wrong and some freak technical problem caused the issue, such as a GPS fail and the plot didn't update or kept updating on a DR based on some previous course and speed - lets see what they have to say.

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I must say this incident has left me feeling very low. Just so unfortunate, and one so hates to see a lovely boat destroyed.

 

The cause is almost certain to be a mix of issues, and there will be lessons learnt. With such a high profile, there is not much chance of sweeping things under any metaphorical rug.

 

What I will say is that issues of software interfaces are something I have spent a lot of time with - in a previous life I used to teach software engineering and we used to place a lot of emphasis on safety critical systems. Incidents from aviation and space vehicles made for good high profile examples. None were a simple single cause. But it was always true that humans could be diverted by the most mundane of things. In aviation disasters there is the phrase CFT - Controlled Flight into Terrain. Air Inter flight 148 is a classic example of how an insanely trivial issue in user interface design along with a high workload leads to disaster.

 

Software fixes, especially in safety critical systems are never easy. For every "obvious" fix to a problem comes a host of unexpected complications, and history is littered with disasters and deaths caused by such obvious fixes.

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it's a tragedy avoided actually

 

by luck or otherwise

 

It's actually a perfect tragedy, which is a dramatic form based on human suffering. Lots of suffering here from a solid cast of characters; that's why I say it won't be 'wasted'; VOR and hopefully Vestas will use it to tell a great story and grow their fan bases. They will not pretend it didn't happen or hide anything.

 

you are describing fiction

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it's a tragedy avoided actually

 

by luck or otherwise

 

It's actually a perfect tragedy, which is a dramatic form based on human suffering. Lots of suffering here from a solid cast of characters; that's why I say it won't be 'wasted'; VOR and hopefully Vestas will use it to tell a great story and grow their fan bases. They will not pretend it didn't happen or hide anything.

 

you are describing fiction

 

The first definition of a tragedy is a drama about unfortunate events with a sad outcome and may or may not be based in reality. Look it up.

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... The zoom issue is very real and I have been pointing this out for a couple of years now. Some software/plotters/chart packagers do it better than others some are particularly bad (N********ics in my experience is one). ...

 

Looking at the area in the Navionics webapp and staying zoomed out quite a bit still shows Ile Rapael and the depth profile clearly suggests that something is going on there which should be looked at at greater zoom. This may be subject to hindsight bias but it's not like there's nothing to be seen.

Still, I'm sure there must have been other factors that we don't know yet.

post-114499-0-93529900-1417441174_thumb.jpg

 

If you zoom in in the Navionics Webapp, it already says "WRECK" at the position where Vestas grounded - did they already update that map or ist that just by coincidence and is in reference to an older wreck?

post-114499-0-25818400-1417441176_thumb.jpg

 

Edit: well, those positions clearly don't match up... OTOH, when you overlay the Tracker image with the chart, it looks like the thing has grown a bit to the east compared to the chart by about a mile... Still, I don't think they would have intended to sail that close to it...

post-114499-0-88752600-1417442649_thumb.jpg

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it's a tragedy avoided actually

 

by luck or otherwise

 

It's actually a perfect tragedy, which is a dramatic form based on human suffering. Lots of suffering here from a solid cast of characters; that's why I say it won't be 'wasted'; VOR and hopefully Vestas will use it to tell a great story and grow their fan bases. They will not pretend it didn't happen or hide anything.

 

you are describing fiction

 

The first definition of a tragedy is a drama about unfortunate events with a sad outcome and may or may not be based in reality. Look it up.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drama

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it's a tragedy avoided actually

 

by luck or otherwise

 

It's actually a perfect tragedy, which is a dramatic form based on human suffering. Lots of suffering here from a solid cast of characters; that's why I say it won't be 'wasted'; VOR and hopefully Vestas will use it to tell a great story and grow their fan bases. They will not pretend it didn't happen or hide anything.

 

you are describing fiction

 

The first definition of a tragedy is a drama about unfortunate events with a sad outcome and may or may not be based in reality. Look it up.

The real tragedy is this is the only news so far this leg... but i guess we are heading into the doldrums.

 

Poor Nicko... as many have said, he never gets any lucky breaks.

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Thanks a lot!

^

They hit a charted reef for no obvious reason and those who know why and how aren't saying yet. No injuries. Boat probably unrecoverable.

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Poor Nicko... as many have said, he never gets any lucky breaks.

.

...funny that...in Nico's interview he is sounding like the luckiest man alive. Things could have been much worse,and the team has quite possibly brought to light some rather perilous issues in software and team management....without a cost in lives.

 

 

.

 

Long time SA reader, never really in the forums, first time poster. Wow, this thread is depressingly judgemental with some appalling slander.

 

Someone wrote that the boat must have hit really hard to end up where it is (nearly high'n'dry). That's not actually how it works; the waves work it further aground usually and then when the sea state drops off a little everyone wonders how the boat got so far 'inland'.

 

Someone else suggested VOR 'own the boats'. That's not the case as can be heard in an interview with Frostad and Mr Clean. VOR have the first option to determine who they are next campaigned by or sold to.

 

Everyone is speculating about chart quality, but these are professional sailors and navigators. They would not have routed so close intentionally. It will be even more simple. Having done some race navigation with Expedition you can put in waypoints and the software spits out a route with angles to steer. If the waypoint data entry was wrong by a transposed digit, the consequent angle might have brought them too close. The other possibility which I think has been alluded to is slowly getting headed effectively toward the obstacle.

 

Lastly, this could be career ending for Nico so some room to breathe to actually find out what happened might be in order. Although beaching Telefonica Blue (Sanya) and bashing another one to death (Movistar) didn't seem to be terminal for Bekking/Juan K.

.

 

......+1 to most of what you say,,but I'll bet there's no 'career end' that comes from this. It's a hard knock,and quite possibly a game changer, but methinks for any human error issues there should perhaps be a serious look at the demands placed on the short number of sailors per boat,rather than any specific individual being at fault.

 

 

Two heads are always better than a run aground boat.

.

....yes.

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... well, those positions clearly don't match up... OTOH, when you overlay the Tracker image with the chart, it looks like the thing has grown a bit to the east compared to the chart by about a mile... Still, I don't think they would have intended to sail that close to it...

attachicon.gifmap3.jpg

 

Using the map posted in http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=162186&page=2#entry4754065, the outlines ot the reef match up very well though. Hell, there's even a light on Coco Island...

attachment=213271:map4.jpg]

post-114499-0-47454600-1417443565_thumb.jpg

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Human mistakes, adversity, suffering, courage, bravery, sacrifice, rebirth....

 

I have read more flimsy plots

Watch it, you will wind up the conspiracy nuts and get Hollywood's attention.

We don't need this turned into another WIND!

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... well, those positions clearly don't match up... OTOH, when you overlay the Tracker image with the chart, it looks like the thing has grown a bit to the east compared to the chart by about a mile... Still, I don't think they would have intended to sail that close to it...

attachicon.gifmap3.jpg

 

Using the map posted in http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=162186&page=2#entry4754065, the outlines ot the reef match up very well though. Hell, there's even a light on Coco Island...

attachment=213271:map4.jpg]

 

From: http://www.noonsite.com/Countries/Mauritius

 

Occasionally yachts stop at the Cargados Carajos Shoals, a large reef area lying some 200 miles north-east of Mauritius. Although one is supposed to obtain prior permission to stop, this rule does not seem to be strictly enforced. However, one should ask permission from local fishermen to anchor off one of the four islands they occasionally inhabit. Over fifty islets and cays make up this small archipelago which abounds in marine life. The chart of this area is badly out of date and it is reported that the lighthouse marked as on Ile du Sud, is very rarely operational. Eyeball navigation is essential throughout this reef-infested area.

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Oh FFS, there is nothing wrong with the charting or software. Watch Ian Walker's assessment video on the abu Dubai website. When zoomed out the area remains shaded blue and the soundings are shallow. When you zoom out far enough eventually you will lose details, it's impossible to do it any other way. If you use raster charts instead of vector then you lose details when you zoom in! It's totally human error here folks. Failure to zoom in far enough to see the reef is 100% operator error. Wouter or Nico would be the first to admit that. I'm certain that is not the case here, I'm betting there was some sort of communication breakdown and the standing orders were not properly communicated / followed. I'd be stunned if extreme fatigue was not a major contributing factor.

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It may not necessarily be a zoom issue. It may also be a number of overlays and opacity issue on the screen.

 

One comment on "Avoid C-Map Land". More than once with this box checked I have had the pleasure and surprise of finding the route optimizer to suggest otherwise.

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Oh FFS, there is nothing wrong with the charting or software. Watch Ian Walker's assessment video on the abu Dubai website. When zoomed out the area remains shaded blue and the soundings are shallow. When you zoom out far enough eventually you will lose details, it's impossible to do it any other way. If you use raster charts instead of vector then you lose details when you zoom in! It's totally human error here folks. Failure to zoom in far enough to see the reef is 100% operator error. Wouter or Nico would be the first to admit that. I'm certain that is not the case here, I'm betting there was some sort of communication breakdown and the standing orders were not properly communicated / followed. I'd be stunned if extreme fatigue was not a major contributing factor.

 

 

For any human error issues,perhaps it'd be worthwhile to look at the cause. There should perhaps be a serious look at the demands placed on the short number of sailors per boat,rather than any specific individual being at fault.

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For any human error issues,perhaps it'd be worthwhile to look at the cause. There should perhaps be a serious look at the demands placed on the short number of sailors per boat,rather than any specific individual being at fault.

Of course fatigue played into it but, as the pictures of US Navy ships aground on well charted reefs in good wx show, having a full crew and professional systems is no guarantee that the crew wont bugger all. The VOR teams have enough crew, first rate nav gear, an enviable energy budget, and elite talent. There's lots to be learned here. Most importantly, I think, is that even the best can lose track of the important things.

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it's a tragedy avoided actually

 

by luck or otherwise

 

It's actually a perfect tragedy, which is a dramatic form based on human suffering. Lots of suffering here from a solid cast of characters; that's why I say it won't be 'wasted'; VOR and hopefully Vestas will use it to tell a great story and grow their fan bases. They will not pretend it didn't happen or hide anything.

 

It seems to me they missed the best part of the story already. Where is the onboard footage? where are the photos? Ok, the sat nav was destroyed and they had to make sure everyone was safe. OK,now start shooting! Give the footage to Alvi to upload or send Alvi's reporter in the powerboat to film the boat and the crew in the life rafts. An extra hour would't have hurt them.

 

Two guys getting air lifted in the Pacific from their sinking boat with shitty video made the nightly news here in the US last night. I'm sorry but a huge missed opportunity

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it's a tragedy avoided actually

 

by luck or otherwise

 

It's actually a perfect tragedy, which is a dramatic form based on human suffering. Lots of suffering here from a solid cast of characters; that's why I say it won't be 'wasted'; VOR and hopefully Vestas will use it to tell a great story and grow their fan bases. They will not pretend it didn't happen or hide anything.

 

It seems to me they missed the best part of the story already. Where is the onboard footage? where are the photos? Ok, the sat nav was destroyed and they had to make sure everyone was safe. OK,now start shooting! Give the footage to Alvi to upload or send Alvi's reporter in the powerboat to film the boat and the crew in the life rafts. An extra hour would't have hurt them.

 

Two guys getting air lifted in the Pacific from their sinking boat with shitty video made the nightly news here in the US last night. I'm sorry but a huge missed opportunity

Have you read any of this thread? or have any understanding of how the OBR's work?

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It seems to me they missed the best part of the story already. Where is the onboard footage? where are the photos? Ok, the sat nav was destroyed and they had to make sure everyone was safe. OK,now start shooting! Give the footage to Alvi to upload or send Alvi's reporter in the powerboat to film the boat and the crew in the life rafts. An extra hour would't have hurt them.

Don't they just need an Iridium GO to upload the footage? $129 / month service.Iridium_GO_link_03a.jpg

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^^^ The data rate for Iridium is stupid slow and not worth the bother. Like the old analog modem speed. That's why they use Inmarsat.

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potentially no new news today. VOR just issued this:

 

Official Press Information

TEAM VESTAS WIND BRIEFING NOTE FOR MEDIA

We are aware that media would like to speak to the members of the Team Vestas Wind crew following the grounding of their boat during the weekend.

However, the nine crew members are still not available for interview.

Meantime, we would direct you to media releases which both Team Vestas Wind and Volvo Ocean Race have issued. We intend to keep you fully updated on developments.

We will give you more information as soon as possible.

 

I wonder if the crew left the island with the weekly boat, that arrived today if I am not mistaken... or if Coxy & shore-crew managed to find a ride from Mauritius. And pics from the boat would be excellent to see. Nico's description of the state of the yacht sounded terrible.

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it's a tragedy avoided actually

 

by luck or otherwise

 

It's actually a perfect tragedy, which is a dramatic form based on human suffering. Lots of suffering here from a solid cast of characters; that's why I say it won't be 'wasted'; VOR and hopefully Vestas will use it to tell a great story and grow their fan bases. They will not pretend it didn't happen or hide anything.

 

It seems to me they missed the best part of the story already. Where is the onboard footage? where are the photos? Ok, the sat nav was destroyed and they had to make sure everyone was safe. OK,now start shooting! Give the footage to Alvi to upload or send Alvi's reporter in the powerboat to film the boat and the crew in the life rafts. An extra hour would't have hurt them.

 

Two guys getting air lifted in the Pacific from their sinking boat with shitty video made the nightly news here in the US last night. I'm sorry but a huge missed opportunity

Have you read any of this thread? or have any understanding of how the OBR's work?

 

I don't really care. I'm interested in the story (pictures, video) and that is why they have OBR's. If they can send same day, live pictures from reporters being bombed in Afghanistan then surely... Unfortunately, this story is getting old fast

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it's a tragedy avoided actually

 

by luck or otherwise

 

It's actually a perfect tragedy, which is a dramatic form based on human suffering. Lots of suffering here from a solid cast of characters; that's why I say it won't be 'wasted'; VOR and hopefully Vestas will use it to tell a great story and grow their fan bases. They will not pretend it didn't happen or hide anything.

 

It seems to me they missed the best part of the story already. Where is the onboard footage? where are the photos? Ok, the sat nav was destroyed and they had to make sure everyone was safe. OK,now start shooting! Give the footage to Alvi to upload or send Alvi's reporter in the powerboat to film the boat and the crew in the life rafts. An extra hour would't have hurt them.

 

Two guys getting air lifted in the Pacific from their sinking boat with shitty video made the nightly news here in the US last night. I'm sorry but a huge missed opportunity

Have you read any of this thread? or have any understanding of how the OBR's work?

 

I don't really care. I'm interested in the story (pictures, video) and that is why they have OBR's. If they can send same day, live pictures from reporters being bombed in Afghanistan then surely... Unfortunately, this story is getting old fast

 

The transcript of Nicho's interview made it sound like Brian Carlin got a bunch of stuff, but they haven't been able to upload it. i mean they're basically on a desert island, at the mercy of the inhabitants there. I'm sure they'll have everything uploaded as soon as they reach civilization.

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From Steif in the Volvo Leg 2 thread.

 

Not sure if everyone is reading both but thought this was relevant.

 

Posted Today, 05:02 AM

onimod, on 29 Nov 2014 - 15:47, said:

I thought race control were getting 10 minute position pings from all the boats?

I would have thought that an imminent collision was obvious for at least 10 minutes before impact.

 

EDIT: I also imagine the outcome would have been different if the tracker was live...

 

The VOR Webmaster emailed me these answers:

 

I understand the boats get 6 hr reports, the virtual tracker is on three hours, and Race control much more frequently?

[VOR] Correct.

 

What do shore teams get?

[VOR] Shore teams receive the same as the public, every three hours. Race Control does indeed receive data every 10 seconds, depending on all parts of the process functioning as they should

 

Who gets access to almost real-time tracking data?

[VOR] The 10-second data is available to Race Control and race management and is provided to the Tracker when it is decided that it is important to show near-live positions to the public, i.e. leg starts and finishes.

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I don't really care. I'm interested in the story (pictures, video) and that is why they have OBR's. If they can send same day, live pictures from reporters being bombed in Afghanistan then surely... Unfortunately, this story is getting old fast

.

 

....errr,welcome to SA,,'S'....I guess we'll put you in with the 'tough crowd' group ...I hope that's okay :mellow:<_<

. ....it sounds like you're a bit 'bombed' yerself! :rolleyes:

 

 

 

post-3217-0-03043800-1417457745_thumb.jpgpost-3217-0-22723900-1417457751_thumb.jpgpost-3217-0-77999500-1417457759_thumb.jpg

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Instead of blaming the naviguesser, or the skipper lets talk future solutions.

 

Do we really need to 'talk solutions'? I'm pretty sure they learned how to solve this problem during the Age of Sail. The answer: Charts!

Um actually, it was the proper use of charts...and knowing the uncertainity in relying on any one form of navigation - called prudent seamanship. The MCM that ran up on the reef violated a whole lotta rules the ship was supposed to follow..the USS Philadelphia relied on electronic charting to an extent..Agean sea was more proper lookout.

Having been standing bridge watches and moving big boats and little boats for a long time (including running 25+knots for 3 days during the summer in the med with no nav lights or radars - chasing russians)..one of the rules i try to teach to delivery crews, is always know where the good water is (most likely a 180 deg turn away) and when operating in close proximity to land, try to turn away from land always not towards it (see andros island and spruance class destroyer grounding)..

 

sigh...they sorta look like the boat i saw in the beach by Sag Harbor during the Whitebread (after the sunken boat episode)..

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it's a tragedy avoided actually

 

by luck or otherwise

 

It's actually a perfect tragedy, which is a dramatic form based on human suffering. Lots of suffering here from a solid cast of characters; that's why I say it won't be 'wasted'; VOR and hopefully Vestas will use it to tell a great story and grow their fan bases. They will not pretend it didn't happen or hide anything.

 

It seems to me they missed the best part of the story already. Where is the onboard footage? where are the photos? Ok, the sat nav was destroyed and they had to make sure everyone was safe. OK,now start shooting! Give the footage to Alvi to upload or send Alvi's reporter in the powerboat to film the boat and the crew in the life rafts. An extra hour would't have hurt them.

 

Two guys getting air lifted in the Pacific from their sinking boat with shitty video made the nightly news here in the US last night. I'm sorry but a huge missed opportunity

Have you read any of this thread? or have any understanding of how the OBR's work?

 

I don't really care. I'm interested in the story (pictures, video) and that is why they have OBR's. If they can send same day, live pictures from reporters being bombed in Afghanistan then surely... Unfortunately, this story is getting old fast

 

 

Guess you missed the part of Nicholson's satphone interview where he mentions that their onboard reporter Brian Carlin lost a lot of his camera gear in the chaos that night...

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Good thing no one was hurt. Amazing really. But how?

 

I've been involved in a few boat accidents, one with a fatality and permanent spinal damage (to myself), another with a total loss to the boat (drunk motor boaters both). I also grounded a newly purchased 50 footer on a very well marked shoal. But at half the speed Vestas was doing, that grounding caused some physical damage, keel hitting, boat stopped, bow down, wheel up into my chin, bit my tongue, stitches, stars. The one crew flew forward hitting various objects. Boat suffered minor damage. Lesson learned. No more groundings since.

 

With all the crew at various posts in the boat, bunks, wheel, grinder, galley - how was no one seriously hurt?

 

Makes me think there must have been some last minute evasive action and big reduction in boat speed at impact, no?

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337 mostly pathetic posts! What a bunch of PC fuck nuts most of you are!

 

FFS! Let's deal with facts...

 

All boats past the hard stuff with no issue and had data and info to do so safely and quite closely!

 

One boat fucked up!

 

nobody else on the planet nor any supplier of equipment / informatiom was responsible!

 

Only the crew, its operational abilities and its sailing process's are responsible... nobody else..they fucked up.

 

Even if the plotter was having issues they should have given the hard stuff a wide berth.

 

Safety is a top priority. In order to finish first, first you have to finish.

 

These fuckwits were taking risks and probably caught up with the racing, wind and the competition rather than the safe navigation of their vessel.

 

Safe navigation of the boat is the number one priority in these waters.

 

Every well organised race yacht has a navigator who plots safe passages, knows the limits of the technology and gives difficult area extra care to ensure safe passage.

 

These guys gt it wring, were not organised, and not accurate in their navigation. They took their eye of the ball and the navigator fucked up.

 

These guys are 100% responsible and no Investigation is going to change that!

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There´s hard aground and soft aground. Lets have a relaxed second look when proper information is available. Good all survived unhurt - this will undoubtly care for some foolproof updates (which I would have needed several times before as well...)

 

4574131078_e9aca0fecf_z.jpeg

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Instead of blaming the naviguesser, or the skipper lets talk future solutions.

 

Do we really need to 'talk solutions'? I'm pretty sure they learned how to solve this problem during the Age of Sail. The answer: Charts!

Um actually, it was the proper use of charts...and knowing the uncertainity in relying on any one form of navigation - called prudent seamanship. The MCM that ran up on the reef violated a whole lotta rules the ship was supposed to follow..the USS Philadelphia relied on electronic charting to an extent..Agean sea was more proper lookout.

Having been standing bridge watches and moving big boats and little boats for a long time (including running 25+knots for 3 days during the summer in the med with no nav lights or radars - chasing russians)..one of the rules i try to teach to delivery crews, is always know where the good water is (most likely a 180 deg turn away) and when operating in close proximity to land, try to turn away from land always not towards it (see andros island and spruance class destroyer grounding)..

 

sigh...they sorta look like the boat i saw in the beach by Sag Harbor during the Whitebread (after the sunken boat episode)..

This one?

post-1017-0-02964300-1417459856_thumb.jpg

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Jenny on today's Inside Track confirmed that the crew is still on the island, and trying to get a pickup organized. No internet, no phones available on site (and I guess the sat-one must be running very low on batteries), so we'll need to wait for more info.

 

I have also hit a rock at 7 knots, and can imagine that you need to pretty lucky that no injuries happened on Vestas as they were doing 15 knots apparently. But as SC says maybe there was a last second evasion that could have reduced their speed.

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337 mostly pathetic posts! What a bunch of PC fuck nuts most of you are!

 

FFS! Let's deal with facts...

 

All boats past the hard stuff with no issue and had data and info to do so safely and quite closely!

 

One boat fucked up!

 

nobody else on the planet nor any supplier of equipment / informatiom was responsible!

 

Only the crew, its operational abilities and its sailing process's are responsible... nobody else..they fucked up.

 

Even if the plotter was having issues they should have given the hard stuff a wide berth.

 

Safety is a top priority. In order to finish first, first you have to finish.

 

These fuckwits were taking risks and probably caught up with the racing, wind and the competition rather than the safe navigation of their vessel.

 

Safe navigation of the boat is the number one priority in these waters.

 

Every well organised race yacht has a navigator who plots safe passages, knows the limits of the technology and gives difficult area extra care to ensure safe passage.

 

These guys gt it wring, were not organised, and not accurate in their navigation. They took their eye of the ball and the navigator fucked up.

 

These guys are 100% responsible and no Investigation is going to change that!

 

+10.

 

Here is the thing I don't understand about this entire thread. Why is everyone willing to cut these guys so much slack? Would you do it in any other area of society? If your kid's bus driver were texting at the wheel and veered into a parked car, would you be so "patient" about not jumping to conclusions? It is that level of fuckup that we are talking about. This type of grounding is unacceptable for any average weekender power boater let alone these professionals.

 

Let's face it. These guys are paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to get this right. They are responsible for the lives of their fellow crew. And, they are responsible to their sponsors to be prudent with the million dollar boat entrusted to them. And not to mention whatever environmental damage their carelessness caused.

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337 mostly pathetic posts! What a bunch of PC fuck nuts most of you are!

 

FFS! Let's deal with facts...

 

All boats past the hard stuff with no issue and had data and info to do so safely and quite closely!

 

One boat fucked up!

 

nobody else on the planet nor any supplier of equipment / informatiom was responsible!

 

Only the crew, its operational abilities and its sailing process's are responsible... nobody else..they fucked up.

 

Even if the plotter was having issues they should have given the hard stuff a wide berth.

 

Safety is a top priority. In order to finish first, first you have to finish.

 

These fuckwits were taking risks and probably caught up with the racing, wind and the competition rather than the safe navigation of their vessel.

 

Safe navigation of the boat is the number one priority in these waters.

 

Every well organised race yacht has a navigator who plots safe passages, knows the limits of the technology and gives difficult area extra care to ensure safe passage.

 

These guys gt it wring, were not organised, and not accurate in their navigation. They took their eye of the ball and the navigator fucked up.

 

These guys are 100% responsible and no Investigation is going to change that!

+10.

 

Here is the thing I don't understand about this entire thread. Why is everyone willing to cut these guys so much slack? Would you do it in any other area of society? If your kid's bus driver were texting at the wheel and veered into a parked car, would you be so "patient" about not jumping to conclusions? It is that level of fuckup that we are talking about. This type of grounding is unacceptable for any average weekender power boater let alone these professionals.

 

Let's face it. These guys are paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to get this right. They are responsible for the lives of their fellow crew. And, they are responsible to their sponsors to be prudent with the million dollar boat entrusted to them. And not to mention whatever environmental damage their carelessness caused.

Not cutting slack. Maybe just some empathy knowing it could happen to anyone, has happened to everyone (of substance) and knowing how fucked up they must all be feeling right now.

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337 mostly pathetic posts! What a bunch of PC fuck nuts most of you are!

 

FFS! Let's deal with facts...

 

All boats past the hard stuff with no issue and had data and info to do so safely and quite closely!

 

One boat fucked up!

 

nobody else on the planet nor any supplier of equipment / informatiom was responsible!

 

Only the crew, its operational abilities and its sailing process's are responsible... nobody else..they fucked up.

 

Even if the plotter was having issues they should have given the hard stuff a wide berth.

 

Safety is a top priority. In order to finish first, first you have to finish.

 

These fuckwits were taking risks and probably caught up with the racing, wind and the competition rather than the safe navigation of their vessel.

 

Safe navigation of the boat is the number one priority in these waters.

 

Every well organised race yacht has a navigator who plots safe passages, knows the limits of the technology and gives difficult area extra care to ensure safe passage.

 

These guys gt it wring, were not organised, and not accurate in their navigation. They took their eye of the ball and the navigator fucked up.

 

These guys are 100% responsible and no Investigation is going to change that!

+10.

 

Here is the thing I don't understand about this entire thread. Why is everyone willing to cut these guys so much slack? Would you do it in any other area of society? If your kid's bus driver were texting at the wheel and veered into a parked car, would you be so "patient" about not jumping to conclusions? It is that level of fuckup that we are talking about. This type of grounding is unacceptable for any average weekender power boater let alone these professionals.

 

Let's face it. These guys are paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to get this right. They are responsible for the lives of their fellow crew. And, they are responsible to their sponsors to be prudent with the million dollar boat entrusted to them. And not to mention whatever environmental damage their carelessness caused.

Not cutting slack. Maybe just some empathy knowing it could happen to anyone, has happened to everyone (of substance) and knowing how fucked up they must all be feeling right now.

No argument there. I am not even suggesting we kick them when they are down. But how about a little ownership at this point? We screwed up, we are sorry and very lucky no one got hurt, etc.

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337 mostly pathetic posts! What a bunch of PC fuck nuts most of you are!

 

FFS! Let's deal with facts...

 

All boats past the hard stuff with no issue and had data and info to do so safely and quite closely!

 

One boat fucked up!

 

nobody else on the planet nor any supplier of equipment / informatiom was responsible!

 

Only the crew, its operational abilities and its sailing process's are responsible... nobody else..they fucked up.

 

Even if the plotter was having issues they should have given the hard stuff a wide berth.

 

Safety is a top priority. In order to finish first, first you have to finish.

 

These fuckwits were taking risks and probably caught up with the racing, wind and the competition rather than the safe navigation of their vessel.

 

Safe navigation of the boat is the number one priority in these waters.

 

Every well organised race yacht has a navigator who plots safe passages, knows the limits of the technology and gives difficult area extra care to ensure safe passage.

 

These guys gt it wring, were not organised, and not accurate in their navigation. They took their eye of the ball and the navigator fucked up.

 

These guys are 100% responsible and no Investigation is going to change that!

+10.

 

Here is the thing I don't understand about this entire thread. Why is everyone willing to cut these guys so much slack? Would you do it in any other area of society? If your kid's bus driver were texting at the wheel and veered into a parked car, would you be so "patient" about not jumping to conclusions? It is that level of fuckup that we are talking about. This type of grounding is unacceptable for any average weekender power boater let alone these professionals.

 

Let's face it. These guys are paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to get this right. They are responsible for the lives of their fellow crew. And, they are responsible to their sponsors to be prudent with the million dollar boat entrusted to them. And not to mention whatever environmental damage their carelessness caused.

Not cutting slack. Maybe just some empathy knowing it could happen to anyone, has happened to everyone (of substance) and knowing how fucked up they must all be feeling right now.
No argument there. I am not even suggesting we kick them when they are down. But how about a little ownership at this point? We screwed up, we are sorry and very lucky no one got hurt, etc.

It may come still. It's probably complicated. Legalities.

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Posted Today, 11:33 AM

picture and article: http://www.volvoocea...-000-words.html

 

This graphic picture shows the stricken Team Vestas Wind lying in a reef in a remote Mauritius archipelago of St Brandon after being grounded there at the weekend.

The team and race organisers are now working out the best way to recover the Volvo Ocean 65 in the Indian Ocean.

Neil Cox, shore manager of the Danish team, said: “The photo paints a pretty graphic picture of what’s going on out there. The picture tells a 1,000 words.”

He said his focus was still the security of the nine members of the crew.

“We have still got nine guys sitting on what is basically a sand pit out in the middle of the Indian Ocean.

“They are still the priority. It’s a peace of mind to know they’re all safe and doing everything they can out there with the boat right now.”

Cox said that sail ropes, fluids, electronics and hardware had been taken off the boat.

The nine-strong crew abandoned ship in the early hours of Sunday morning after the collision at 19 knots at 1510 GMT the previous day and waded through knee-deep water to a dry position on the reef.

They were picked up from there at daylight by a coastguard rib and taken to the nearby Íle du Sud.

The islet has very little communications with the outside world and the crew are awaiting transportation back to Mauritius. This is expected to happen within the next 24 hours.

The National Coast Guard of the Maritime Rescue Co-operation Centre (MRCC) of Mauritius took the pictures as part of its usual operations after such an incident.

The crew have received food packages via an airdrop from a coastguard plane. It confirmed that all were uninjured in the collision.

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FFS! Let's deal with facts...

Excellent idea? Do you have any? Or do you just have ill informed guesses based on very sketchy press coverage? If the latter you may find in the future that not making judgements on minimal information saves you from looking like a complete idiot when the whole story comes out.

 

As I've said before, its amazing that the aviation industry spends millions on crash investigation when they could find out everything they need to know about what went wrong by reading a few internet expert's opinions based on the first two or three press reports.

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... well, those positions clearly don't match up... OTOH, when you overlay the Tracker image with the chart, it looks like the thing has grown a bit to the east compared to the chart by about a mile... Still, I don't think they would have intended to sail that close to it...

attachicon.gifmap3.jpg

 

Using the map posted in http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=162186&page=2#entry4754065, the outlines ot the reef match up very well though. Hell, there's even a light on Coco Island...

attachment=213271:map4.jpg]

 

Which provideds another completely unsubstantiated, but plausible, theory - maybe the on-watch were given instructions along the lines of 'keep up for a few miles, you'll see a light (Albatross island), stay 1/2 mile above it and we're ok', then mistook the Coco island light for Albatross. Their track indicates they cracked off a little before hitting.

 

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FFS! Let's deal with facts...

Excellent idea? Do you have any? Or do you just have ill informed guesses based on very sketchy press coverage? If the latter you may find in the future that not making judgements on minimal information saves you from looking like a complete idiot when the whole story comes out.

 

As I've said before, its amazing that the aviation industry spends millions on crash investigation when they could find out everything they need to know about what went wrong by reading a few internet expert's opinions based on the first two or three press reports.

Firstly, you are quoting the wrong person. But since you ask, here are the facts:

 

A team of highly paid professional sailors crashed their million dollar boat into a reef so well charted, it shows up on $25 android software let alone the set up these guys had at their fingertips.

 

This is classic "res ipsa loquitur." This kind of shit simply doesn't happen without negligence.

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337 mostly pathetic posts! What a bunch of PC fuck nuts most of you are!

 

FFS! Let's deal with facts...

 

All boats past the hard stuff with no issue and had data and info to do so safely and quite closely!

 

One boat fucked up!

 

nobody else on the planet nor any supplier of equipment / informatiom was responsible!

 

Only the crew, its operational abilities and its sailing process's are responsible... nobody else..they fucked up.

 

Even if the plotter was having issues they should have given the hard stuff a wide berth.

 

Safety is a top priority. In order to finish first, first you have to finish.

 

These fuckwits were taking risks and probably caught up with the racing, wind and the competition rather than the safe navigation of their vessel.

 

Safe navigation of the boat is the number one priority in these waters.

 

Every well organised race yacht has a navigator who plots safe passages, knows the limits of the technology and gives difficult area extra care to ensure safe passage.

 

These guys gt it wring, were not organised, and not accurate in their navigation. They took their eye of the ball and the navigator fucked up.

 

These guys are 100% responsible and no Investigation is going to change that!

+10.

 

Here is the thing I don't understand about this entire thread. Why is everyone willing to cut these guys so much slack? Would you do it in any other area of society? If your kid's bus driver were texting at the wheel and veered into a parked car, would you be so "patient" about not jumping to conclusions? It is that level of fuckup that we are talking about. This type of grounding is unacceptable for any average weekender power boater let alone these professionals.

 

Let's face it. These guys are paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to get this right. They are responsible for the lives of their fellow crew. And, they are responsible to their sponsors to be prudent with the million dollar boat entrusted to them. And not to mention whatever environmental damage their carelessness caused.

Not cutting slack. Maybe just some empathy knowing it could happen to anyone, has happened to everyone (of substance) and knowing how fucked up they must all be feeling right now.

No argument there. I am not even suggesting we kick them when they are down. But how about a little ownership at this point? We screwed up, we are sorry and very lucky no one got hurt, etc.

That IS basically what Chris Nicholson said in his interview with Mark Covell.

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Some people on this thread sound like they've got shares or something they're so angry. Get a grip people! Yes we all want to know what happened and yes we all probably agree how!

 

And who left the door open from AC Anarchy??

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Is that even salvageable? Wouldn't pulling it back over the reef not be the final straw?

 

1512200_10152917912412437_61713690740922

 

It'll buff right out.

 

At least the front hasn't fallen of...

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FFS! Let's deal with facts...

Excellent idea? Do you have any?

 

 

...This kind of shit simply doesn't happen without negligence.

 

 

That will be a no then...

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Holy Shit, that doesn't look good. Just thinking about speed, most of us in our 4ksb's that might get up to high single digit speeds going down a big wave with a hooly blowing behind us probably have a hard time knowing how fast things happen at steady speeds around 20 knots. I still say let's give the story a chance to unfold.

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Is that even salvageable? Wouldn't pulling it back over the reef not be the final straw?

 

1512200_10152917912412437_61713690740922

 

It'll buff right out.

 

At least the front hasn't fallen of...

 

yeah, but according to the reports, the back did...

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No argument there. I am not even suggesting we kick them when they are down. But how about a little ownership at this point? We screwed up, we are sorry and very lucky no one got hurt, etc.

That IS basically what Chris Nicholson said in his interview with Mark Covell.

.

 

....definitely. The voice was slurry,,but the words and emotions were clear .

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^

Crazy ivan, whaat a pic...

 

Now i can see why no injuries.. I'm picturing a port tack beam reach approach, keel full cant and bulb close to the surface, boards both up, relatively flat water as the wind was offshore ir the reef.

Seems the reef is a gradual slope up, so they come in smoking and clip both rudders first, this puts them into a round up skid to port, they skip like a stone to high point on the reef and spin bow to the east to a stop.

 

some kinda sleigh ride...

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FFS! Let's deal with facts...

Excellent idea? Do you have any? Or do you just have ill informed guesses based on very sketchy press coverage? If the latter you may find in the future that not making judgements on minimal information saves you from looking like a complete idiot when the whole story comes out.

 

As I've said before, its amazing that the aviation industry spends millions on crash investigation when they could find out everything they need to know about what went wrong by reading a few internet expert's opinions based on the first two or three press reports.

Come on Jim. Don't you know "jzk" and Speed Deamon" are very important Internet posters and that they are well justified in their demands for a public lynching before the facts are known. Hell - even before the culprits are retrieved from their shipwrecked isle.

 

 

[This reminds me of a Monty Python skit. Ironically, posters like these who pound on the table and froth at the mouth for immediate accountability make it less likely that organizers would want to engage the public with reasonable disclosure and discourse on the actual facts. It's a mob mentality that causes the people in an actual position of responsibility to bunker down. And that would be a shame. ]

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A salvage would be great. Bulb fell off already. Dive for that. Clip the keel. Drop and remove the mast. Sails and lines already removed. Boat lightened. High tide. Maybe.

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FFS! Let's deal with facts...

Excellent idea? Do you have any?

 

...This kind of shit simply doesn't happen without negligence.

 

That will be a no then...

Well played

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Is that even salvageable? Wouldn't pulling it back over the reef not be the final straw?

 

That is some awesome looking flats fishing. Too bad the boys don't have some tackle and a guide while they wait.

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FFS! Let's deal with facts...

Excellent idea? Do you have any? Or do you just have ill informed guesses based on very sketchy press coverage? If the latter you may find in the future that not making judgements on minimal information saves you from looking like a complete idiot when the whole story comes out.

 

As I've said before, its amazing that the aviation industry spends millions on crash investigation when they could find out everything they need to know about what went wrong by reading a few internet expert's opinions based on the first two or three press reports.

Come on Jim. Don't you know "jzk" and Speed Deamon" are very important Internet posters and that they are well justified in their demands for a public lynching before the facts are known. Hell - even before the culprits are retrieved from their shipwrecked isle.

 

 

[This reminds me of a Monty Python skit. Ironically, posters like these who pound on the table and froth at the mouth for immediate accountability make it less likely that organizers would want to engage the public with reasonable disclosure and discourse on the actual facts. It's a mob mentality that causes the people in an actual position of responsibility to bunker down. And that would be a shame. ]

 

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If the hull is worth saving, I'm wondering is these guys would be the guys to call...

 

http://www.colheli.com/about_us/global_operations/

 

Maybe they can send their Sudan-based Chinook.

 

I have no idea what that would cost. I'm guessing enough that it would be more cost-effective to strip everything that hasn't already been stripped (the rig, etc) and then just cut the hull into pieces to be hauled away and scrapped (so as to not leave an environmental black eye for VOR).

 

I remember about 30 years ago, when hurricane Gloria hit the Northeast US, a bunch of boats near us broke their moorings and floated a mile or so up into a marsh... then the storm tide went out, leaving the boats high and dry (and mostly undamaged) in the mud. A Chinook was chartered and spent a couple days carrying boats back to the water. It was actually a pretty smooth operation (seen from afar, at least).

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Can we all give a thumbs-up to the Mauritus CG?

This is a country where I am guessing the median income would be hard pressed to finance a used Laser, let alone a VOR boat, and they are stepping right up to help. Good on you guys!

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Is that even salvageable? Wouldn't pulling it back over the reef not be the final straw?

 

1512200_10152917912412437_61713690740922

Does not look easy? What helicopter did alinghy use to fly to the med?

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you are touching a big issue now, the costs of salvaging the boat. As a low budget campaign, I doubt Vestas is going to be willing/eager to spend a ton of money into this. Although, sure enough, their marketing activation plans in the rest of the stopovers are gonna look grim if there is no boat.

 

Biggest issue, besides money, is potentially finding a suitable boat with a crane that gets there well before the next storm...

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i'd think the waves will keep pushing it into the lagoon. then the only way to move it is with inflatable floaters underneath, get it to deep water to lift on a boat.

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I get the feeling that the material that gets published will be a story of shipwreck, survival and social responsibility in cleaning up. That's what will sell.

 

It will be interesting to see if the crew ever afford us an analysis of the events leading up to grounding. I doubt we will get much, although as sailors, this could be the most useful information to us.

 

I think many of you people have been so poisoned by the AC that you think every sailing problem will be hidden by organizers.

 

Knowing the team and the event's attitude, I'm quite confident that we will get every piece of info available. If not from Wouter's mouth himself, than from Brian. If not from Brian, then Nico. If not Nico, then Coxy, if not Coxy, than Knut.

 

This is far too big a tragedy to waste on trying to save someone's rep.

 

Maybe.

 

I was actually thinking of how they may present it to a mass market rather than the niche audience of sailors.

 

If you think they will reveal the nitty gritty of the decisions made that led to the grounding and loss of Vestas, then great!

 

Everybody keeps using the word `tragedy'. Nobody died or got hurt and we lost a large carbon toy. I'm not sure it constitutes a `tragedy'.

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you are touching a big issue now, the costs of salvaging the boat. As a low budget campaign, I doubt Vestas is going to be willing/eager to spend a ton of money into this. Although, sure enough, their marketing activation plans in the rest of the stopovers are gonna look grim if there is no boat.

 

Biggest issue, besides money, is potentially finding a suitable boat with a crane that gets there well before the next storm...

 

As an "environment conscious" company they will be even less willing to be known as those who left several tons of highly non-bio-degradable junk in a natural reserve.

 

Edit: Even if they were stupid enough to even think about leaving the thing there, I doubt the Mauritius authorities would let them do so.

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My Dad was a young Naval officer and got assigned to an aircraft carrier early in his career. He was a fleet officer as opposed to a 'brown shoe' which is what the naval aviators were called. Odd thing is that aircraft carriers were assigned 'brown shoes' as captains in the thought that their specialized training as aviators made them more suitable for being in command of a floating airfield.

 

Dad eventually got assigned the role as 'navigator' and the Captain made a big point of re-iterating the huge responsibility that entailed but then pointed at the chart rolled out on the chart table and said, 'I have the ultimate responsibility for this ship and its crew but all I know about navigating is that we are supposed to keep it in the blue parts and away from the tan areas...'

 

 

No disrespect to your Dad or his stories. But, no one gets out of navy flight school without knowing how to navigate in three dimensions at high speed. Yes our modern jets have computers. But the skilled pilot navigator must be able to find the target, destination, and sometimes a moving ship to land on without hitting any high or hard spots between the points.

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you are touching a big issue now, the costs of salvaging the boat. As a low budget campaign, I doubt Vestas is going to be willing/eager to spend a ton of money into this. Although, sure enough, their marketing activation plans in the rest of the stopovers are gonna look grim if there is no boat.

 

Biggest issue, besides money, is potentially finding a suitable boat with a crane that gets there well before the next storm...

 

As an "environment conscious" company they will be even less willing to be known as those who left several tons of highly non-bio-degradable junk in a natural reserve.

 

Edit: Even if they were stupid enough to even think about leaving the thing there, I doubt the Mauritius authorities would let them do so.

 

yeah, agree, sure thing. But my comment was more in the direction if Vestas was willing to go full "carajo" to try to repair the boat, or just at a slower and cheaper pace to get rid of it.

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Is that even salvageable? Wouldn't pulling it back over the reef not be the final straw?

 

1512200_10152917912412437_61713690740922

 

Is anyone familiar with the orientation of that picture... It looks to me like the bow is pointing back towards the sea; or do I have it all wrong... Did they get spun on the reef when they hit?

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Instead of blaming the naviguesser, or the skipper lets talk future solutions.

Do we really need to 'talk solutions'? I'm pretty sure they learned how to solve this problem during the Age of Sail. The answer: Charts!

charts only work if you read them and plot your position on them constantly. With all the overlays that prick of an island disappeared on at least two competitors boats. Dongfeng did a last minute tack during daylight.

 

That suggests a user interface or workflow error. Both easily correctable with new work habits or new software views. Take a look at the ddg-1000 control room. Each workstation has 3 24" monitors and there is a dozen plus of them. Granted a sail boat isn't a warship however it still stands. If using software for everything then you need enough displays big enough to see it all. Figure one monitor will show you one sheet of paper. Maybe two. Now how many sheets are on your desk that you are actively looking at and correlating? So either the at least two teams need to work on new habits or additional displays are needed.

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I know shit - all about salvage but that is still pretty close to the edge of the reef, and what is left is relatively light. There is very little liquid co. And at low tide you can wade to it.

 

Could it be as simple as a barge and crane. Anchor it off the reef wall and back down to the wall. Use the crane get bucket to lift chunks onto the barge. Put a crew on the reef at low tide to collect and consolidate the small stuff.

 

It would need to happen fast, before a storm broke it up or pushed it further into the reef. And some of the work would be limited to low tide. But it benefits from making use of low tech equipment that should be readily available.

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Only thing left in one piece is the rig and boom. Hull was totally rooted two days ago.... How do you reckon she's holding up now? Any salvage attempt would have to be environmentally motivated, the numbers don't add up commercially.

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Is anyone familiar with the orientation of that picture... It looks to me like the bow is pointing back towards the sea; or do I have it all wrong... Did they get spun on the reef when they hit?

 

You are right, bow points at the sea.

It's not clear if they got spun during a last moment maneuver, the crash or at a later point in time.

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Is that even salvageable? Wouldn't pulling it back over the reef not be the final straw?

 

1512200_10152917912412437_61713690740922

Is anyone familiar with the orientation of that picture... It looks to me like the bow is pointing back towards the sea; or do I have it all wrong... Did they get spun on the reef when they hit?

The picture is taken from the south east and the bow is pointed east south east. Don't read anything into the orientation with regard to how the boat hit. If you read / listen to the materials released, the boat hit and then hung near the edge of the reef for several hours before the bulb broke off and the boat got washed further onto the reef.

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If you read / listen to the materials released, the boat hit and then hung near the edge of the reef for several hours before the bulb broke off and the boat got washed further onto the reef.

 

Thanks RM... I missed that part...

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I think any ship big enough to salvage that would probably do more damage to the reef than the sailboat has done.

 

some kind of big helicopter maybe...

 

But i have to wonder whether anything - ship or not - is near enough to get there and do the job before the waves smash it into tiny pieces

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Is that even salvageable? Wouldn't pulling it back over the reef not be the final straw?

 

1512200_10152917912412437_61713690740922

 

I think that what they really need now is a blimp and what they would have really needed Saturday is being closely followed by Peyron to get a heroic tow in time.

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Instead of blaming the naviguesser, or the skipper lets talk future solutions.

Do we really need to 'talk solutions'? I'm pretty sure they learned how to solve this problem during the Age of Sail. The answer: Charts!

charts only work if you read them and plot your position on them constantly. With all the overlays that prick of an island disappeared on at least two competitors boats. Dongfeng did a last minute tack during daylight.

 

That suggests a user interface or workflow error. Both easily correctable with new work habits or new software views. Take a look at the ddg-1000 control room. Each workstation has 3 24" monitors and there is a dozen plus of them. Granted a sail boat isn't a warship however it still stands. If using software for everything then you need enough displays big enough to see it all. Figure one monitor will show you one sheet of paper. Maybe two. Now how many sheets are on your desk that you are actively looking at and correlating? So either the at least two teams need to work on new habits or additional displays are needed.

Actually, we do need to talk of solutions, because zoom-out information drop-out is not an uncommon problem. And electronic charts are not going away. They are too good not to use as the core of navigation. I carry paper as a back-up and for route planning, but electronics are too good not to use, on deck on a phone or pad or down below. Sometimes paper can save the day, sometimes it is a few years old and the nav aids have been changed.

 

My suggestion would be to have a picture-in-picture as the default chart mode. The PIP always shows the nearby conditions at zoom-in scale, no matter what. Might be hard or irritating to do on a phone, though.

 

So...another suggestion would be for a * to show on the screen at the location where any feature has been dropped out by zooming that either land or is shallower than a selected depth.

 

Patent pending....send royalty checks to my screen name c/o SA.

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^^ It is always first best to remember it is cyclone season there, and it is an active breeding ground area. So whatever work is undertaken might well get disrupted, that would have to be part of any 'plan'.

 

Best thing is probably to send a couple guys with chain saws, and just cut it up and clean/consolidate it up, then when the weather is good get the the regular vessel from Mauritius anchored as close as possible on the leeward side and float the debris (downwind) to it.

 

South Africa does have the 'super sized' salvage equipment. When we were last there they send a "super tug" (the "John Ross") out to rescue a tow of two Russian destroyers (being towed to India to the breaker beach). But it would be serious money to send either a monster helo or tug, and the boat is certainly not worth it at this point..

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it's a tragedy avoided actually

 

by luck or otherwise

 

It's actually a perfect tragedy, which is a dramatic form based on human suffering. Lots of suffering here from a solid cast of characters; that's why I say it won't be 'wasted'; VOR and hopefully Vestas will use it to tell a great story and grow their fan bases. They will not pretend it didn't happen or hide anything.

It seems to me they missed the best part of the story already. Where is the onboard footage? where are the photos? Ok, the sat nav was destroyed and they had to make sure everyone was safe. OK,now start shooting! Give the footage to Alvi to upload or send Alvi's reporter in the powerboat to film the boat and the crew in the life rafts. An extra hour would't have hurt them.

 

Two guys getting air lifted in the Pacific from their sinking boat with shitty video made the nightly news here in the US last night. I'm sorry but a huge missed opportunity

Have you read any of this thread? or have any understanding of how the OBR's work?

I don't really care. I'm interested in the story (pictures, video) and that is why they have OBR's. If they can send same day, live pictures from reporters being bombed in Afghanistan then surely... Unfortunately, this story is getting old fast

If you don't really care and the story is getting old, why don't you go fuk yourself and troll elsewhere.

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Estar is right…

 

I'll bet the sounds of chainsaws aren't far off.

 

The mast will be the tricky bit.

Not really, just cut the 'windward' V1 and D1 at deck level. Just stand well back from it.

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1) to salvage u just pull her over the Sand into the lagoon - less daage - back over the coral reef would deatroy her.

 

2) i told u guys thatnwe will not get the exact cause for the grounding - skipper and navigator will seek legal advise and than say something wich will qualify aß a "Light" mistake...otherwise they Run the risk of being personable liable for the damage - aß the insurer might pay vestas and tke recourse with the reaponsible Person. This could happen if it was reckless or gross negligence.

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Estar is right…

 

I'll bet the sounds of chainsaws aren't far off.

 

The mast will be the tricky bit.

Not really, just cut the 'windward' V1 and D1 at deck level. Just stand well back from it.

 

Ummmm splintering CF....

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I know exactly nothing about navigational software and display presentation, but it doesn't seem totally impossible to have a system that alerts when the current track intersects with depth below n, with suitable range limitations. It might be more than a little annoying when tide cheating though: would it in general make for too many false alarms?

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^^^ And...

USS_Port_Royal_grounded.jpg

It is my understanding that in the Navy, if you run your ship aground, your career is over.

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